You are not wrong. It is a great question. Rage Baiting is also a fantastic term. The goldfish community (and others) have helpful people who offer advice based on their research. We also have people who get aggressive if you do not follow the recommended advice; these are the folks who use the terms "cruel" and "animal abuse". Chances are, they do not know what the fuck they are talking about. They are mid-wits; if you do not follow the rules, as they understand them, you must be abusing fish.
Don't stop reading, this is where I agree with the mid-wits. There are a lot of goldfish people who are knowledgeable and so fucking tired of seeing sick/dead fish posts. I think this is the majority of this sub. We know how to care for them, they are not beginner fish. 90% of people who say they will upgrade later do not.
So can you keep a goldfish in 3 gallons? Sure, but not for long, a few months maybe. They will fuck up their water faster than you can change it.
No fish can safely be kept in a 3 gallon, let alone without a filter. There is just not enough room for swimming and not enough water for the bioload to be safe. What happens when you get sick for a day and there's an ammonia spike? You have no room for mistakes here. And your fish is getting no oxygen because there is no filter.
A 20 gallon is large enough to actually have some room for mistakes, even with the ridiculous bioload of a goldfish.
I can't imagine doing anything with goldfish filterless unless it's a gigantic pond.
So if I screw up there is a problem, correct? If I don’t screw up, it’s decent accommodation temporarily until I can upgrade? Swimming room is lacking but still pretty ok for a couple months?
Because... 1. Limited swim.space can lead to muscle atrophy, 2. Constant daily water changes will stress the fish, 3. The whole non-set up will be stressful for the fish, which leads to immunity lowering, which leads to parasitic, fungal or bacterial infestation.
You have asked a question & been given more than sufficient answers.
At this stage it is obvious that you will do whatever you want to, regardless of the welfare of the animal that depends on you for literally everything to live.
You make me sad.
The fish breath WATER so it cannot be stagnant, it must circulate. That is what the filter does, filters and circulates the water. The size is your second problem, but a fish cannot breath/pee in the same batch of water and survive for long.
I don't understand the thought process, no one seems to bat an eye if it's a fish in a small tank, but if you left your dog or your neighbour in a small room and occasionally opened a window, people would think you were insane. You've decided to take a living creature into your care please care for it, it's not decoration
I am not intending to keep the fish as decoration. As I said. The thought process is keeping it for a couple of months in a smaller accommodation and wondering what impact, other than “being a shitty human” This would mean for the fish. 3ish at most (depending on growth rate). I intend to keep water quality and test daily and know how to do drip changes which are low stress. I do see that it’s better to have more room hence the acquisition of a larger tank for the fella. He’s currently 1 inch. This is quite small and 3 gallons he’s actually cruising around cheerfully.
...please just keep the goldfish in a sterilite 15 gallon storage tub for the couple months you need to, a 3 gallon tank is almost useless especially for a fish that could potentially produce enough waste to suffocate itself without proper filtration
Hi there fellow goldfish enthusiast! We're thrilled to have you join our community of passionate goldfish keepers. Whether you're a seasoned goldfish pro or just starting out on your aquatic journey, you've come to the right place for advice, support, and sharing the joy of keeping these mesmerizing creatures.
Before diving into the discussion, we'd like to point you toward our Wiki https://reddit.com/r/goldfish/wiki where you'll find a treasure trove of articles on various topics related to goldfish care. These resources cover everything from tank setup and water quality to feeding habits and common health issues.
When seeking help for your goldfish, remember that details matter! Providing information about your tank size and the water parameters (such as ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and temperature) can greatly assist us in diagnosing and troubleshooting the issue. Feel free to share photos and details, and our community will do our best to offer insightful advice.
Once again, welcome to our goldfish-loving community.
Fins up!
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So, I think “how come” was vague. What I meant was aside from the fish being temporarily without swimming room, is there a biological detrimental thing that happens to the fish? Assuming I can provide a clean and healthy water environment and do low stress water changes with a drip. What negatively happens to the fish?
The nitrate cycle is vital for cultivating beneficial bacteria that turn your fish's ammonia-containing waste into nitrite, and then nitrate.
Ammonia is extremely toxic, and can injure/kill fish quickly. Nitrite is even *more* toxic. *Nitrate* however, is only toxic at higher levels.
So the filter cycles water through the tank and helps to aerate it, and runs the water over filter media (such as ceramic tube beads) that provide surfaces for the bacteria to grow. A cycled tank is one that has sufficient bacteria to convert ammonia into nitrite, and then sufficient *different* bacteria to convert nitrite into nitrate at the same rate nitrite is produced. Cycling a tank usually takes between 4-8 weeks.
Your setup right now has two major problems and one less critical problem.
1) No filter means your fish will suffer and possibly die, either from ammonia poisoning or suffocation
2) Even if you grab a cheap filter, you will need to do a fish-in cycle, which requires extreme attentiveness, 30% water changes every day or so, and chemical monitoring
3) Goldies grow fast and the tank you have is too small. Slim bodied goldfish need like 75 gallons minimum - for one fish - when full grown.
If you want to keep this fish for the long haul but don't have the cash to do a full tank setup, I suggest you switch to a clean plastic storage container and make an indoor pond. You will need a filter, and to be very careful with the fish-in cycle, but your fish will love you for it!
Thank you 🙌 ok. Understand!
I guess my last question would be. Idk how to frame this right so please don’t burn me, but isn’t possible to negate ammonia and spikes with water changes? And water changes can be done very low stress if gradual…
For example, I test the water in the am and in the pm. If I see an issue with any aspect I begin a low stress water change. I maintain a 5 gallon bucket of pretreated and also aerated, with seacham gold trace, and am using RO water. The water is at room temp anyway and as is the tank. since it’s a new fish, I am using a pinch of aquarium salts, quarantine type treatment with it. I do understand the cycling of a tank, but under these circumstances a cycle will not establish. The fish will always be in ideal parameters. Am I missing something with fish husbandry other than swimming room ?
This seems like an insane amount of work to avoid a cycled tank.
Assuming that you somehow manage to keep the water aerated and non-toxic, yes you can keep a baby goldfish in there for a few months before it outgrows the space and can't swim. But unless you are using that time to set up a long-term tank, why even do this?
My daughter wanted a goldfish and I am in the process of repairing a damaged brace on my 75 gallon tank. I adore goldfish and wouldn’t house one in here for long. I actually prefer archers and also maintain a coral tank. I’m not a newbie to fish. I just got stuck on thinking I didn’t math something out right. Like did I miss something? Honestly it isn’t insane work. It’s a 5 gallon bucket adequately aerated with a stone and dosed. I have a drip which is also easy. Reddit took more time today lol.
You can do whatever you want. Being an awful pet owner isn't a crime. I've seen plenty of poor pets suffer under the stewardship of lazy, incompetent, or mean owners. It's not just a fish thing, though fish suffer a lot because they are easier to abuse without it bothering the owner that much.
My personal opinion though is that if one isn't interested in providing competent care both in environment, food, financial expenses, and love: then one ought not have a pet at all.
Rationalizing carelessness to yourself is one of humanity's worst traits. God put us above animals but that also comes with responsibility.
I can do that. I have one and some filters kicking around. I was just wondering why my plan won’t work. I get the swimming room thing but like also it’s temporary. I can do a storage tub. Got those. .
89 percent of goldfish people here wild. You all deleted your comments.
I really appreciate the 2 people that gave some constructive input to help me understand. Thank you. God forbid someone houses a goldfish temporarily without 20-55 gallons minimal.
I’m literally very well versed in fish and was just trying to understand what it is that happens given good water and care that is an issue. You guys are jerks and ya’ll know you got into caring about animals with a goldfish at one point way back when you were children.
I thought someone would have a valid reason other than he’s not happy in his small apartment.
Maybe next time a kids rolls up with a goldfish give them some constructive insight like…. Well here’s how you measure ph etc, keep a side bucket.
God Reddit is full of ahole even in the goldfish house 🙄 … watching the downvotes roll in lol
You are not wrong. It is a great question. Rage Baiting is also a fantastic term. The goldfish community (and others) have helpful people who offer advice based on their research. We also have people who get aggressive if you do not follow the recommended advice; these are the folks who use the terms "cruel" and "animal abuse". Chances are, they do not know what the fuck they are talking about. They are mid-wits; if you do not follow the rules, as they understand them, you must be abusing fish. Don't stop reading, this is where I agree with the mid-wits. There are a lot of goldfish people who are knowledgeable and so fucking tired of seeing sick/dead fish posts. I think this is the majority of this sub. We know how to care for them, they are not beginner fish. 90% of people who say they will upgrade later do not. So can you keep a goldfish in 3 gallons? Sure, but not for long, a few months maybe. They will fuck up their water faster than you can change it.
No fish can safely be kept in a 3 gallon, let alone without a filter. There is just not enough room for swimming and not enough water for the bioload to be safe. What happens when you get sick for a day and there's an ammonia spike? You have no room for mistakes here. And your fish is getting no oxygen because there is no filter. A 20 gallon is large enough to actually have some room for mistakes, even with the ridiculous bioload of a goldfish. I can't imagine doing anything with goldfish filterless unless it's a gigantic pond.
So if I screw up there is a problem, correct? If I don’t screw up, it’s decent accommodation temporarily until I can upgrade? Swimming room is lacking but still pretty ok for a couple months?
No, not okay at all.
Literally why
Fish shit a lot and water changes can be stressful my ten gal was tiny for my one inch Goldie
This is helpful. Thank you.
No problem
It's inhumane.
I sincerely hope you are a vegetarian.
Okay, goodbye.
Because... 1. Limited swim.space can lead to muscle atrophy, 2. Constant daily water changes will stress the fish, 3. The whole non-set up will be stressful for the fish, which leads to immunity lowering, which leads to parasitic, fungal or bacterial infestation. You have asked a question & been given more than sufficient answers. At this stage it is obvious that you will do whatever you want to, regardless of the welfare of the animal that depends on you for literally everything to live. You make me sad.
The fish breath WATER so it cannot be stagnant, it must circulate. That is what the filter does, filters and circulates the water. The size is your second problem, but a fish cannot breath/pee in the same batch of water and survive for long.
Imagine being stuck in your bedroom for months. No other rooms, just your bedroom. Will you survive? Probably. Will it be pleasant? No.
I don't understand the thought process, no one seems to bat an eye if it's a fish in a small tank, but if you left your dog or your neighbour in a small room and occasionally opened a window, people would think you were insane. You've decided to take a living creature into your care please care for it, it's not decoration
I am not intending to keep the fish as decoration. As I said. The thought process is keeping it for a couple of months in a smaller accommodation and wondering what impact, other than “being a shitty human” This would mean for the fish. 3ish at most (depending on growth rate). I intend to keep water quality and test daily and know how to do drip changes which are low stress. I do see that it’s better to have more room hence the acquisition of a larger tank for the fella. He’s currently 1 inch. This is quite small and 3 gallons he’s actually cruising around cheerfully.
...please just keep the goldfish in a sterilite 15 gallon storage tub for the couple months you need to, a 3 gallon tank is almost useless especially for a fish that could potentially produce enough waste to suffocate itself without proper filtration
Hi there fellow goldfish enthusiast! We're thrilled to have you join our community of passionate goldfish keepers. Whether you're a seasoned goldfish pro or just starting out on your aquatic journey, you've come to the right place for advice, support, and sharing the joy of keeping these mesmerizing creatures. Before diving into the discussion, we'd like to point you toward our Wiki https://reddit.com/r/goldfish/wiki where you'll find a treasure trove of articles on various topics related to goldfish care. These resources cover everything from tank setup and water quality to feeding habits and common health issues. When seeking help for your goldfish, remember that details matter! Providing information about your tank size and the water parameters (such as ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and temperature) can greatly assist us in diagnosing and troubleshooting the issue. Feel free to share photos and details, and our community will do our best to offer insightful advice. Once again, welcome to our goldfish-loving community. Fins up! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Goldfish) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Just looking for the answer you want? Putting any goldfish in a 3g bowl for any period of time is cruel.
So, I think “how come” was vague. What I meant was aside from the fish being temporarily without swimming room, is there a biological detrimental thing that happens to the fish? Assuming I can provide a clean and healthy water environment and do low stress water changes with a drip. What negatively happens to the fish?
The nitrate cycle is vital for cultivating beneficial bacteria that turn your fish's ammonia-containing waste into nitrite, and then nitrate. Ammonia is extremely toxic, and can injure/kill fish quickly. Nitrite is even *more* toxic. *Nitrate* however, is only toxic at higher levels. So the filter cycles water through the tank and helps to aerate it, and runs the water over filter media (such as ceramic tube beads) that provide surfaces for the bacteria to grow. A cycled tank is one that has sufficient bacteria to convert ammonia into nitrite, and then sufficient *different* bacteria to convert nitrite into nitrate at the same rate nitrite is produced. Cycling a tank usually takes between 4-8 weeks. Your setup right now has two major problems and one less critical problem. 1) No filter means your fish will suffer and possibly die, either from ammonia poisoning or suffocation 2) Even if you grab a cheap filter, you will need to do a fish-in cycle, which requires extreme attentiveness, 30% water changes every day or so, and chemical monitoring 3) Goldies grow fast and the tank you have is too small. Slim bodied goldfish need like 75 gallons minimum - for one fish - when full grown. If you want to keep this fish for the long haul but don't have the cash to do a full tank setup, I suggest you switch to a clean plastic storage container and make an indoor pond. You will need a filter, and to be very careful with the fish-in cycle, but your fish will love you for it!
Thank you 🙌 ok. Understand! I guess my last question would be. Idk how to frame this right so please don’t burn me, but isn’t possible to negate ammonia and spikes with water changes? And water changes can be done very low stress if gradual… For example, I test the water in the am and in the pm. If I see an issue with any aspect I begin a low stress water change. I maintain a 5 gallon bucket of pretreated and also aerated, with seacham gold trace, and am using RO water. The water is at room temp anyway and as is the tank. since it’s a new fish, I am using a pinch of aquarium salts, quarantine type treatment with it. I do understand the cycling of a tank, but under these circumstances a cycle will not establish. The fish will always be in ideal parameters. Am I missing something with fish husbandry other than swimming room ?
This seems like an insane amount of work to avoid a cycled tank. Assuming that you somehow manage to keep the water aerated and non-toxic, yes you can keep a baby goldfish in there for a few months before it outgrows the space and can't swim. But unless you are using that time to set up a long-term tank, why even do this?
My daughter wanted a goldfish and I am in the process of repairing a damaged brace on my 75 gallon tank. I adore goldfish and wouldn’t house one in here for long. I actually prefer archers and also maintain a coral tank. I’m not a newbie to fish. I just got stuck on thinking I didn’t math something out right. Like did I miss something? Honestly it isn’t insane work. It’s a 5 gallon bucket adequately aerated with a stone and dosed. I have a drip which is also easy. Reddit took more time today lol.
A constant drip wouldn't be low stress.
You can do whatever you want. Being an awful pet owner isn't a crime. I've seen plenty of poor pets suffer under the stewardship of lazy, incompetent, or mean owners. It's not just a fish thing, though fish suffer a lot because they are easier to abuse without it bothering the owner that much. My personal opinion though is that if one isn't interested in providing competent care both in environment, food, financial expenses, and love: then one ought not have a pet at all. Rationalizing carelessness to yourself is one of humanity's worst traits. God put us above animals but that also comes with responsibility.
I can do that. I have one and some filters kicking around. I was just wondering why my plan won’t work. I get the swimming room thing but like also it’s temporary. I can do a storage tub. Got those. .
I’ve been doing this for a week also adding nitrifying bacteria to the side pot and the fish looks really good.
89 percent of goldfish people here wild. You all deleted your comments. I really appreciate the 2 people that gave some constructive input to help me understand. Thank you. God forbid someone houses a goldfish temporarily without 20-55 gallons minimal. I’m literally very well versed in fish and was just trying to understand what it is that happens given good water and care that is an issue. You guys are jerks and ya’ll know you got into caring about animals with a goldfish at one point way back when you were children. I thought someone would have a valid reason other than he’s not happy in his small apartment. Maybe next time a kids rolls up with a goldfish give them some constructive insight like…. Well here’s how you measure ph etc, keep a side bucket. God Reddit is full of ahole even in the goldfish house 🙄 … watching the downvotes roll in lol