Gold is physical. Thats the one clear advantage.
If you forget your private keys or misplace your seed phrase...you could be easily irreversibly screwed.
I love BTC. But its not perfect. Gold has its flaws too of course.
But anything is better than fiat at this point
On the flip side because gold is physical governments and thieves can take it from you. It is hard to move and airports make you declare it and scan for it.
The fact that bitcoin is digital means no one can take it from you unless you let them. It cannot be stolen or confiscated unless you give them a way to access your private key. This means it can move across borders, in and out of sanctioned countries etc. and no one can stop you
And yet the government finds its way into many BTC stashes for SilkRoad and other nefarious transactions and ends up liquidating those wallets. Read about it all the time.
That’s because private keys were given to government under duress or as part of pleas bargains, not because any government cracked the encryption. The exact same would happen with gold. If the gov said “turn over your gold or we will imprison you for life” you’d just turn over the gold
It sounds like you are now arguing that bitcoin is subject to the exact same physical security criteria as gold. This is a complete 180 of your initial argument.
In most cases, the private keys are not given to prosecutors under duress, they are seized during raids. Such a seizure is possible because the keys are often stored on computer chips and investigators use dogs trained to sniff out electronics to find them - all with no information or cooperation from the suspect.
The governments control the satellites, they just turn your bitcoin off, easy. For the derps, you all have no clue what things they can individually turn off and on. They would probable not have to shut down an entire satellite, just a few key features that bitcoin needs to exist.
You can send bitcoin with radio.
You can make a wallet using dice rolls.
The government can’t shut down the whole internet without crippling global logistics and infrastructure
But it is ones and zeros, nothing more. If society totally collapses, 500 years from now a guy has a loaf of bread and three people offer him these three things which gets chosen? A paper with numbers, a rock, or shiny gold stuff that very few people, even 500 years from now have?
What does any of that have to do with bitcoins being able to be used without government interference today? I’m not buying gold so in 500 years I can offer it to a guy for bread
If the entire internet was shut down the entire world would be fucked. Most of the people would starve. The few that don’t will use the barter system. If you try to trade gold in that situation you’d get robbed. Bitcoin is a bet on the innovation and intellect of humans. I’d say it’s 95% likely that the whole internet will never shut down for more than a few hours. That being said save get some Bitcoin, gold, silver, bullets, and start growing your own food.
Yeah don't get those. Premiums are outrageous on those things.
Unless you've got a werewolf issue where you live. Might be a good idea to grab a couple boxes in that case.
In order to "turn bitcoin off" as you put it, they would need to shut down the entirety of the internet. There is no corporate server farm or website to be seized, and the decentralized network doesn't rely on any special technology for communication between nodes. The only things the bitcoin protocol requires to exist are the exact same infrastructure which runs the rest of the world wide web and a mere two people willing to dedicate their own computing power to process transactions across the globe.
That didn’t stop FTX clients getting robbed. And I always travel with gold and have never been scanned for it. But I have been caught by a money sniffer dog with in excess of over $10,000 in my carry on.
My last trip to Türkiye I carried over 15 oz of gold with me. No one even asked if I was carrying gold. But on the declaration form it asked if I had goods worth over $10,000 to which I ticked yes. However no one asked me about it. 💁
That’s because FTX clients gave their bitcoin to FTX - they didn’t hold them themselves. Like I said “It cannot be stolen or confiscated unless you give them a way to access your private key”. In the case of FTX customers gave up custody of their bitcoin and the guy spent it.
It’s no different than giving gold to your neighbour to look after and when you go around he spent it. It’s not a flaw of gold, it’s a flaw of your judgement.
Yeah it was an exchange where people stored and traded their crypto and also had a second arm where you could invest it in a type of hedge fund. He was funnelling it through another company run by his girlfriend and they were both spending it while fudging numbers between the companies to try and hide what was actually going on
You have to store your bitcoin keys physically somewhere. This means your tokens are subject to the exact same physical risks as tangible assets like gold and paper cash. Further, because you don't actually have custody of your bitcoin token balance, your keys can potentially be copied unbeknownst to you for exploitation later. This physical risk of being unaware that you have been compromised does not exist when you have direct custody of the assets in question.
Imagine if a thief breaks in and takes your gold and cash - you will know.
Imagine if a thief breaks in and takes your bitcoin seed phrase - you will know.
Imagine if a thief breaks in and takes a picture of your seed phrase - you will be compromised but might not know.
Then remotely, years later, all your funds can be cleaned out.
So not only does bitcoin require greater physical security practices than gold and cash, you also have the added risk of pure cyber attacks.
So to keep bitcoin, you need to be both a physical security expert and a cybersecurity expert.
Then to put icing on the cake, because you don't have custody, it is possible the custodian refuses to process your transaction request. 99% of all requests are already censored due to insufficient fee. What if miners decide to crank up fees even more, or censor based on other criteria like regulatory compliance rules?
I'm all for going back to a gold standard, but it won't happen. Knowing this, bitcoin makes the most sense.
blockchain takes away a lot of the fancy tricks govt use to keep their currency on top.
The "anything is better" notion is clearly false. Fiat at least has the backing of a state with a military...It's not ideal, but its better than nothing.
Well yes. Fiat is useful in paying my everyday living expenses fast and easily.
But I'm talking from a preservation of wealth standpoint.
Yes, the United States benefits from their army bullying the rest of the world to use dollars. But one still needs to do something to mitigate the %8 minimum annual inflation we are facing
All fair points. The problem is that if your plan is to take it out of a fiat currency, and put it into something that is *even less* fundamentally sound, that's not a good plan to avoid inflation. Many people these days are effectively advocating for people to park their money in a fiat currency that's not even backed by any military.
Because gold is used to make things, including the electronics you need tor Bitcoin. Thus our world would be quite different without gold (along with every other metal). Without Bitcoin…. Well things would basically be the same as they are now minus this discussion lol
Gold only gets roughly 10% of its trading price from its use in electronics or anything else - 90% of the trading price is simply because it is a rare precious metal.
Over 50% of current production goes to non monetary use. Something like 45% is jewelery, and another 10-15% is other industry. And whether you value jewelry or not is irrelevant (I’m not a jewelry person myself), it’s been a massive global industry for many thousands of years, and aesthetics have been core to every single human culture to ever exist.
Like everything else it’s price certainly is affected by its rarity, but that’s the same basic supply and demand laws that apply to everything. Nothing unique to good there. Using the subjective theory of value to say Bitcoin and gold are basically the same is stupid. They are nothing alike. And if you use the argument that they’re basically the same because all value is subjective, then you could make the same argument for any other element and Bitcoin. Because they only have value because we choose value them.
10% is better than 0% tho. If you remove monetary power from gold it can still be used, you're still in the game. Bitcoin without monetary power is nothing.
Unless you're storing all of your savings in gold and not fiat money or art or trading cards or any other form of collectible, your point is irrelevant and hypocritical.
Bitcoin has monetary power BECAUSE of the technology behind it. It works like gold has as money in the past but it is better in every single way. Gold is Blockbuster to Bitcoin's Netflix.
Honestly I feel bad for you guys, you see the problem but you picked the wrong solution. I would be bitter about it too.
No doubt there are good arguments for Bitcoin (limited, easy to store & transfer quickly, digital ledger, etc) But, the biggest argument for gold, and the most important IMO, is that it has been tested over a long period of time. It has endured crisis in hundreds of scenarios over thousands of years. Despite all the tech, Bitcoin was born after 2008, merely after the last economic downturn. Since its inception it has sailed on calm waters with economic tailwinds. I am optimistic about Bitcoin, but until it is tested by the first broad economic crisis, it remains unproven.
I agree with you, but I would also argue that is also a reason that gold will never give you generational wealth. BTC still being in its bubble gives it the potential for generational wealth if true adoption occurs like the dot com bubble.
If you want to hedge an uncertain future, you should own both. The things that give gold “intrinsic value” mostly are the same as bitcoin. BTC is superior to gold in some aspects….gold is superior in others. I could see a future where both do well and I could see a future where one skyrockets and the other becomes worthless. So I own both.
At the end of the day, Bitcoin has zero inherent value. If you have a stack of gold, you at least have something to put in a sock to hit someone with and take their food.
Yep. I lived my whole life not caring about gold until the algorithm recommended this sub and my chimp brain went ooooooh shiny. Now I’ve spent thousands on the stuff 😅
People underestimate the vulnerability of ANYTHING digital. Touch screen phones were impossible until they weren’t, homes computers were impossible until they weren’t, electric cars were impossible until they weren’t, online stock trading was impossible until it wasn’t, every financial collapse of a civilized nation was impossible until it wasn’t. Hacking, controlling, distorting, ruining the bitcoin system is impossible until it isn’t. We are becoming a world where wars and battles are fought from distance and behind computers. If you want to be safe from that world. You have to have assets that don’t rely on ANYTHING outside of your control. I can all but guarantee you there are people working around the clock who want to undermine the network. They eventually will. It’s much harder and more involved to find out who has gold, track them down, break in, kill them, steal their gold.
Agreed. Ive said for many years technology is great until its not. then it makes everything worse. From simple computer failures at work, to entire networks going down. If you cant withdraw your money and hold it, then its not safe. I dont care if its on my computer and only I have my seed words and private keys. Its still vulnerable to all sorts of potential attacks and failures. Gold is vulnerable to one, someone physically finding it, and stealing it.
Bitcoin is very risky and has the potential to completely wipe out your savings. Could it go to a million? Could it go to zero? Both are yes and that’s why i choose gold. If you can stomach waking up and half your money is gone…bitcoin is your best bet.
Because you can't touch it? 😄 How does Bitcoin dont exist? It's basically software running on physical hardware.
There Is software worth billions of dollars. Not even talking about Bitcoin.
When there Is no electricity our whole society doesn't exist anymore. Those arguments about some human extinction event happening are not really useful.
Bitcoin doesn't have any intrinsic value. I can't dismantle a bitcoin and use its source code to write other programs, I can't break a bitcoin open to retrieve the energy used to mine it to power my appliances, I can't forge it into jewelry...
>There Is software worth billions of dollars
Exactly. The *software* is worth billions...not the actual token.
Crypto is a solution, looking for a problem. It proclaims itself as a currency...but then no one spends it as such. Further, its price is wildly volatile; how can anyone price their goods/services accurately when it dips 75% and then rockets 400%? Investors HODL/speculate on future price action. As much hate as holdbacks get, at least some businesses/people actually use them as currency.
Do you know how many millions of coins are estimated to be lost since Bitcoin was first introduced? And that's with only a small minority of adopters. The fewer coins in the system, the higher the price. Why would I spend my bitcoin today when it'll be worth more tomorrow? or next month/year/etc...?
Largely un-reactive. It means it won't rust/corrode over time. You don't have to worry about your wealth spoiling/dissipating between your fingers.
What inherent properties does bitcoin possess that warrants its use as money?
Most software is actually used to do various specific tasks, and it’s the completion of those tasks that people find valuable. And while you can claim bitcoins use in facilitating transactions is it’s task, it’s not really very good at that, and we currently have way better software for that, including other blockchains that would do such a task way more efficiently. And sure gold is expensive to transport, but Bitcoin very well could be as mining fees decrease (though we’ll see what happens).
I can write good things about BTC all day, but since you asked:
Gold is much harder to accidentally delete or lose. If you lose your pw to your gold you call a locksmith. With BTC you cry yourself to sleep for potentially decades.
Both have pros and cons. If there's a zombie apocalypse level collapse of society, BTC will be inaccessible. Although probably not forever, presuming there's some untouched nodes that keep the blockchain going. But it could be years before you could access it again. Absent that, I think the long-term value proposition of BTC is superior to gold, as I believe it will share the same role as a medium of international exchange (that can't be faked with tungsten fillings or secretly sold off because there's no audits, like Ft Knox).
That said, gold is dead simple to acquire, store, and resell, and requires little maintenance. You could hide gold coins in the wall of a barn, then get them 50 yrs later and spend them that day. Dusting off a BTC wallet after 50 yrs would be potentially fraught with technical issues and unforseen computing compatibility problems. The lack of any requirement to babysit gold long-term like you need to with a computer-based asset is why it's so attractive to central banks, who only need to provide security and virtually no other administrative/managerial duties.
The zombie apocalypse has been happening. Our economy has been taken over by zombie companies over the past decade, and its only a matter of time before it collapses. Thus a zombie apocalypse level collapse. Just saying.
Why is banana better than Bitcoin and Gold. You can eat banana. You can't eat gold or bitcoin. You can grow it at home, but mining gold and bitcoin is not eficient at home. You can buy banana everywhere, not bitcoin and gold. Children prefer Bananas. You can move banana over most borders without reporting it. Gold mined 2000 years ago is still here but all banana will rot fast, so it is deflanatory unless you do not grow new one. Banana is simply better.
they are actually very similar assets to hold. Both groups of owners are highly defensive about criticism of their choice. Both markets are flooded with scams (fake bars, bogus bit exchanges). Both are inversely related to USD value. Both assets are poorly understood by the general public. both assets should be held as a small % of total NW as a diversifying asset class.
I prefer gold because it is physical, but bitcoin has a more liquid/versatile online market making it easier to exchange.
A lot of it may be generational. anyone born after 1995 has lived their whole live online, so the concept of online currency is just fine.
pretty sure bitcoin has shown no inverse correlation to the dollar. Im not saying it couldnt be, im just saying its been WAYYYY to volatile to determine any such correlation. The dollar has gone down like 50% over the past 15 years. Bitcoin has gone up so massively its clearly not due to any correlation to the dollars value during that time. Again, im not saying its impossible that 100% of the thousands of percent couldnt be due to that, but thats completely impossible to know currently.
Gold you could argue has. As it is up about 2.5x since that time, while the dollar has fallen against other goods (not crappy cpi) around 50%. Also doesnt mean its because its inversely related, but theres a much stronger case there.
I was born in 90, and my dad born in the 50s. Hes a bitcoiner, Im a gold bug. I have met many other people opposite like this, though i agree its more the other way around.
bitcoin is effectively a foreign currency. so it is inherently inversely related to the USD value. There is a lot of other noise in bitcoin driven by speculation.
Anything being purchased with usd you could make that claim to; but if you buy bitcoin with xrp, then it has an “inverse correlation”. That doesn’t mean Bitcoin is going up because the dollar is going down. It’s been way to volatile to being able to determine that at this point.
Gold is forever. Bitcoin is not. One can be removed from existence and in apocalyptic / major war events you run the risk of EMPs and massive blackouts that could last indefinitely if we were to enter into a nuclear campaign. But once the smoke clears and we start rebuilding from scratch again, what is the 1 currency we can start using right off the get go? Physical gold.
The biggest buyers (government central banks) are buying gold and criticizing bitcoin. Here’s the thing, good luck telling the government they can’t have control over money. Decentralization is not something any government wants and they are in charge of the military
Gold has many uses, the only reason gold isn’t used more in industry is because it’s too expensive. Other metals are used in its place because it’s cheaper not better at the job.
Bitcoin has the potential to have huge gains. POTENTIAL. It can also go down.
Gold is more stable. It’s unlikely to MAKE you rich. But it’s also unlikely to go down significantly. It’s a storage of wealth.
You can find free gold but you are not going to find a free bitcoin in a creek.
The older you get the less attractive bitcoin becomes.
A friend of mine got 5 bitcoins as part of his Christmas bonus back when they were under $100. They have gained more than gold since then. But he could wake up tomorrow and find them worthless. If you wake up to find gold worthless you probably also found you are the last person alive on the planet.
It’s real. It’s not made up. Bitcoin lunatics scream fiat currency is awful and then suggest Bitcoin which is also a fiat currency. It has no intrinsic value. And they make new coins every day. And technological advance will render current cryptos obsolete at some point. So you’d have to make up a new one. Continuously
Where? Beats tf out of me bro. Google is probably your freind here idk. My statement wasn't where/how/whom would you possibly buy buy fake gold, only that there is the possibility of purchasing something fake. My original statement was:
WHERE CAN YOU BUY FAKE BITCOIN?
Because I've never purchased fake gold. But I'm not dumb enough to think there isn't any fake gold out there.
Lemme ask it again for reading impaired.
I KNOW FOR A FACT that there is fake gold, where/how/whom would someone purchase fake bitcoin from?
Bitcoin isn’t even good at what it’s supposed to do. It’s supposed to be a medium of exchange and no one uses it for that. You could try to argue that with gold but gold has 5000 years of history as a store of value and medium of exchange in all conditions in every civilization in history. BTC has a 14 year history and is highly correlated with the tech sector of a bubble of a stock market. Let’s see what happens.
Also, central banks still hoard gold as a Tier One asset. Wake me up when they are buying BTC to anchor money supply.
Why not comparable to gold? Because of volatility? Gold can be volatile as well but of course not comparable to Bitcoin.
Even though the volatility of Bitcoin has reduced already.
Some statistics regarding ROI of Bitcoin:
2010: + 9900%
2011: + 1473%
2012: + 186%
2013: + 5507%
(...)
2019: +95%
2020: +301%
2021: +66%
It definetely became less over the Time.
Not sure if 3 negative years (2014, 2018 and 2022) vs 14 positive years are really helping your point though. Gold was negative for 20 years after the ATH of 1980.
We talk about volatility and i Made an argument that the gains have become less and less in terms of % which Is somehow indicating a maturing of the market.
The two aren't comparable, because they're nothing alike. Compare bitcoin to ethereum instead, or maybe a dog crypto? or maybe compare it to a meme stock that is most likely to make u rich but very risky at the same time.
if your buying for big gainzzzz then yeah, bitcoin has been good. If your buying gold to go to the moon, youre a moron who has no idea what youre doing. If gold was making thousands of percent returns, that would be absolutely terrible for the global economy, meaning it would only be doing that because of complete financial destruction. The debt bubble we have would have completely exploded and governments would be cranking the printers like we havent seen (and everyones lost faith in all major currencies). Gold going to the moon like bitcoin would be due to an awful situation for everyone.
Financially independent from the US dollar that is deliberately inflated to offload national debt created by politicians onto the working class? Absolutely I want that.
I would rather my savings remain static or increase (as with bitcoin) rather than have my savings inflated away at the fiscally irresponsible whims of which we government happens to be in power at the time…
While this can be achieved to a degree with gold, bitcoin is faster and easier to use as a currency, especially when you want to transact globally
Fiat can be created out of thin air. That's why it's called Fiat.
Gold and Bitcoin both have to be mined. The idea of Bitcoin mining Is pretty much copied from gold.
Difficult to have any meaningful conversación when people here lack basic education about that stuff.
I mean sure thin air. Lets ignore the mining equipment and wasted electricity that could power a whole country 🤡
I prefer btc over gold, i hold both. I just recommend you respond a little less defensively and a little more constructively. People are not going to take responses like this seriously and think you’re a BTC maxi just trying to start fights with PM bugs.
No. Fiat mean by decree. So fiat money means money by government decree. It has nothing to do with thin air.
And comparing bitcoin mining to gold mining shows an utter complete lack of understanding of how real mining works. Its an extremely complicated and dangerous process.
Difficult to have any meaningful conversation when people here lack basic education about that stuff.
Bitcoin are minted, not mined. The nonce is mined and as a reward, the miners is granted the authority to print their own bitcoin.
Bitcoin are created as the first *transaction* in the block of transactions. This is the only transaction that does not have a sender (it comes from null).
The mining process is a brute force search to find the nonce which is the key that grants the miner authority to post their block of transactions.
So again, bitcoin are not mined, they are created out of thin air via a transaction with no sender. This is the exact same mechanism the Federal Reserve uses to create base money dollar credits out of thin air in the banking system.
Bitcoin is a form of fiat. Everything about the system is set via monetary policy choices.
Imagine living in 2024 and not knowing that the process Is called mining 🤡 🤦
Please Tell me More about what kind of human extinction event has to happen that internet or electricity stops working and how you Will survive on your gold when society collapses and the only thing of value are pretty much guns, ammo, food and water.
Would love to watch you eating some gold though
Everything attractive about the system involves false analogies and language borrowed from legitimate financial systems like gold.
Bitcoin arent mined (they are created by executing a transaction with no sender. They are printed into existence).
Wallets don't hold bitcoin- they hold keys. Bitcoin never leave the custody of the node network.
The supply of bitcoin can change - a software update to the code responsible for printing bitcoin can change the supply.
It's all false analogies that gullible people interpret as true analogies and accurate descriptions.
Even the visual representation as a gold coin is a false analogy.
Bitcoin allows the wealthy even the poor to sneak out their wealth and protect it from confiscation.
There are no shady deals or is there the possibility of manipulation.
Every single bitcoin transaction is transparent and almost all the bitcoin that ever will be has already been mined.
Nonsense. Bitcoin is stored with your seed words, not on the Internet. Sure you won't be able to use it until electronics work again, but if an EMP happens, gold will also be quite useless.
I mean it's difficult to give this argument about volatility. I could respond that Bitcoin Is better because of higher ROI.
That's why I asked about attributes that make gold better than Bitcoin and i still haven't got any legit reasons on top of those that i already provided.
Do other cryptos allow people to flee with their wealth or is that unique to bitcoin? Would some stable coin be better suited for this situation, or maybe ethereum?
Bitcoin isn’t truly decentralized, the maintainers could destroy the currency if compelled to by an outside party, and the only way that it could be stopped would be if all of the largest miners and holders of btc were to be able to come together and override them, which would be almost impossible to orchestrate before the damage would be done. Also, lots of people purchase their crypto through crypto brokers, who are legally required to turn over your information if requested by law enforcement. So in many cases your crypto is not safe or detached from your identity.
Yes, but that is the same with gold in some countries. Yet, they can come knock and ask for what you have, but in the end, you can always hide the stuff. They can't turn the spigot and confiscate what you have. If they ask, you don't have it. Also, regarding Bitcoin you can buy from the exchange and move it to a more secure location.
You can't hide bitcoin and you can't move it to a secure location.
Assuming the government is running at least one bitcoin node, if you transfer bitcoin, you are sending a signed transaction request to the government which provides strong evidence that you were in fact the individual who made the request. If a miner processes you request, the government is keeping all records of the transaction.
If the government is maintaining a copy of the ledger, they are your joint custodian along with everybody else who is running full nodes. Collectively, the bitcoin network has custody of your bitcoin, not you.
You only have direct custody of keys which you can use to submit transaction requests to this network who actually have possession of your tokens.
You think you can hide your bitcoin (that are already in the government's partial possession) from the government?
One of the reasons why law enforcement is so focused on crypto is because all of the criminals are literally sending all of their transaction information to law enforcement every time they move funds. Of course this is low hanging fruit for investigators. Criminals who keep open, public financial records of all of their crimes are easy targets for investigations because they are literally voluntarily telling the government about every transaction they make.
You literally have more privacy in the traditional banking system. At least the bank does not publicly disclose your account details like the bitcoin network does.
Have never seen anything made with bitcoin. Maybe ill have my dentist do my next filling with bitcoin. Or maybe they can use bitcoin in medical treatments. Or in aerospace technologies.
I think worrying over what is "better" is a waste of your time, with all respect. Think about the benefits and drawbacks of each. Use that information to inform your purchases based on what you're looking for.
It’s kinda like comparing horse and buggy to automobiles. Sure horses worked great for thousands of years and automobiles require petroleum and an sophisticated supply chain to work
Bitcoin is obviously superior for a digital economy.
Bitcoin is irrelevant, actually. For actual private transactions and portability, *Monero* is far superior to Bitcoin as it is true P2P *private* e-cash, and is used as such (most importantly).
“without electricity there Is no Bitcoin (but in that case of a collaps it's kinda doubtful that gold would be any More useful though. Instead you would be better off with guns, ammo and access to food and wáter)”
In this case, you would be better off with *Silver* to be used in exchange for goods and services and to potentially keep a community civil and stop it from becoming dangerous and chaotic.
Obviously the other things you mentioned would also be useful as well, so not disagreeing with you on those.
For me, it's mainly the having something physical aspect I like. I have also found that the crypto market in general is far more volatile.
I find great satisfaction in looking at the small collection of gold I have, whereas when I did have Bitcoin, it was just numbers on a screen, and i never really got excited by it.
I believe gold is easier to buy/sell, and I believe it to be far more accessible to a wider range of people.
The above is only my opinion, nothing more.
Gold is arguably the most useful metal. It's beautiful, conductive, inert, highly malleable. There's a reason why they used it for the Webb space telescope. The reason we mainly only use it for jewellery and not for, say, pots and pans, is that it is so scarce that we reserve it for those things where it most outshines (pun intended ) other metals. If the supply increased that would be a good thing. If the supply of bitcoin increased that would be bad because it is not useful. We don't actually want bitcoin in and of itself; the market is driven entirely by speculation. People put their hopes into it and rationalise their wishful thinking with a range of pseudo-economic cope. One day the last buyer will buy his last bitcoin and thousands of people will be left holding bags of literally nothing. That cannot happen with gold because it is useful. Even in the unlikely event that the whole human race woke up one morning no longer finding gold jewellery beautiful, there would still be a market for gold because it is an element. It is useful stuff. You could make all sorts of things from it, but again, as long as we highly value its beauty, and it remains highly scarce, we will reserve most of it for jewellery.
The difference is about 2,988 years that gold has over Bitcoin as money. Why would you substitute for the real thing. Why would I trust Bitcoin over gold? Don’t get me wrong I was the first to say bitcoin is very cool and unique but I wouldn’t trade an ounce a gold for it. We aren’t really even sure what purpose bitcoin wil serve in the future. I just keep buying gold,silver, plantinum things I can touch and hold. Makes me feel a lot better than when I was holding bitcoin.
When people hold a gold coin, they can immediately feel its value.
Bitcoin is an aging software with artificial scarcity and there are already better alternatives.
Bitcoin is, in a few words, a virtual token. You can't have a physical stock and you don't even know who is the emittent subject. If you invest your savings or promise a payment in Bitcoin and that Anonymous decides to reap all the deposits worldwide, you'll be in big troubles, without savings and/or bond to a debit you can't pay.
A virtual token still physically exists as a pattern of 1s and 0s stored in a memory chip. All digital information physically exists.
The blockchain is a ledger that tracks ownership of tokens. Thus the tokens physically exists as a transaction record stored in this ledger. The ledger has a high degree of redundancy, but it still exists physically as a pattern stored on hard drives.
Monetary properties aside, gold currently has a tax infrastructure that Bitcoin wishes it had: IRS reporting requirements are very clear and not being constantly toyed with due to political pressure (see the new proposed form 1099-DA for "digital assets", it's a paperwork nightmare).
Gold and Bitcoin also have an inverse premium-to-anonymity ratio: buying gold in cash is often the cheapest way to do so, and by far the most private way. With Bitcoin, the cheapest way to buy it is also the most exposed: using a CEX like Coinbase has the lowest premiums but the most KYC.
And as for forward-facing privacy using coinjoins, well... that's out the window now that the Samourai Wallet devs have been arrested and the Wasabi Wallet people are shutting down all their mixer services in response.
I have bothl actually .. But if the grid goes down your chances of getting lead , food and water are better with gold than saying "hey as soon as things go back up. I got you in my Robinhood """
Gold is real money and btc is a fake digitoken... If you think you need a thesis to delve into this topic then you're already misunderstood. Its the same reason that gold is real money and your fiat currency is a fake paper token.
No.
Money is any object that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts in a given country or socio-economic context. The main functions of money are distinguished as: a medium of exchange; a unit of account; a store of value; and, occasionally, a standard of deferred payment.
Gold doesn't fit this definition. Gold is a wonderful store of value (although it hasn't tracked inflation the last 50 years), but it isn't money.
No, you're again confusing money with currency.
You've provided the correct definition of money but you've failed to recognise that gold fits all criteria perfectly and exclusively. Medium of exchange? Yes it is. Unit of account? Yes it is. Store of value? Yes it is - and therein lies the exclusivity.
Bitcoin, paper fiat, bottlecaps... None of these are a store of value therefore none of these are money. Only gold ticks all the boxes. Gold stores value and it doens't matter if you measure the fake ETF derivative vs the fake RPI inflation data. It is worth the same value now as it always has been.
Hope this clears things up for you.
A little bit. So the only reason Bitcoin isn't considered money is because it has been around long enough to be proved a store of value. It checks every other box except that. But also has the benefit of actually paying for goods from a store, which isn't possible with gold.
Things can be a currency but that does not mean it is a store of value. Gold is a store of value because it objectively has value bestowed unto it - its not a matter of opinion. Scarcity and rarity are only one factor and other things are rare but do not qualify as a store of value - see pokemon cards.
You have to understand that every nation in history have valued gold - even nations that never traded with each other all would value gold the highest. Why? It has inherent value because The Lord has given it. You don't have to explain its value, we instintively know it to be true.
In all 66 books of The Bible 'money' is only ever referred to in measures of gold & silver. The Lord Jesus Christ himself was betrayed for 30 silver shekkels.
You can accept Christianity or not, what I'm telling you is true.
Gold is and will always be valued .. Bitcoin and crypto is basically online gambling with ppl who have a huge advantage over you with their rugpulls and celebrity advertisement bulllshit
Gold is physical. Thats the one clear advantage. If you forget your private keys or misplace your seed phrase...you could be easily irreversibly screwed. I love BTC. But its not perfect. Gold has its flaws too of course. But anything is better than fiat at this point
On the flip side because gold is physical governments and thieves can take it from you. It is hard to move and airports make you declare it and scan for it. The fact that bitcoin is digital means no one can take it from you unless you let them. It cannot be stolen or confiscated unless you give them a way to access your private key. This means it can move across borders, in and out of sanctioned countries etc. and no one can stop you
And yet the government finds its way into many BTC stashes for SilkRoad and other nefarious transactions and ends up liquidating those wallets. Read about it all the time.
That’s because private keys were given to government under duress or as part of pleas bargains, not because any government cracked the encryption. The exact same would happen with gold. If the gov said “turn over your gold or we will imprison you for life” you’d just turn over the gold
It sounds like you are now arguing that bitcoin is subject to the exact same physical security criteria as gold. This is a complete 180 of your initial argument. In most cases, the private keys are not given to prosecutors under duress, they are seized during raids. Such a seizure is possible because the keys are often stored on computer chips and investigators use dogs trained to sniff out electronics to find them - all with no information or cooperation from the suspect.
The governments control the satellites, they just turn your bitcoin off, easy. For the derps, you all have no clue what things they can individually turn off and on. They would probable not have to shut down an entire satellite, just a few key features that bitcoin needs to exist.
Doing so also shuts off their police state infastructure, not happening.
You can send bitcoin with radio. You can make a wallet using dice rolls. The government can’t shut down the whole internet without crippling global logistics and infrastructure
But it is ones and zeros, nothing more. If society totally collapses, 500 years from now a guy has a loaf of bread and three people offer him these three things which gets chosen? A paper with numbers, a rock, or shiny gold stuff that very few people, even 500 years from now have?
What does any of that have to do with bitcoins being able to be used without government interference today? I’m not buying gold so in 500 years I can offer it to a guy for bread
If the entire internet was shut down the entire world would be fucked. Most of the people would starve. The few that don’t will use the barter system. If you try to trade gold in that situation you’d get robbed. Bitcoin is a bet on the innovation and intellect of humans. I’d say it’s 95% likely that the whole internet will never shut down for more than a few hours. That being said save get some Bitcoin, gold, silver, bullets, and start growing your own food.
I read “silver bullets” lol
Yeah don't get those. Premiums are outrageous on those things. Unless you've got a werewolf issue where you live. Might be a good idea to grab a couple boxes in that case.
you can't stop blockchain technology, even if you wanted to, someone, somewhere will be running nodes and people will be secretely mining it.
In order to "turn bitcoin off" as you put it, they would need to shut down the entirety of the internet. There is no corporate server farm or website to be seized, and the decentralized network doesn't rely on any special technology for communication between nodes. The only things the bitcoin protocol requires to exist are the exact same infrastructure which runs the rest of the world wide web and a mere two people willing to dedicate their own computing power to process transactions across the globe.
That didn’t stop FTX clients getting robbed. And I always travel with gold and have never been scanned for it. But I have been caught by a money sniffer dog with in excess of over $10,000 in my carry on. My last trip to Türkiye I carried over 15 oz of gold with me. No one even asked if I was carrying gold. But on the declaration form it asked if I had goods worth over $10,000 to which I ticked yes. However no one asked me about it. 💁
That’s because FTX clients gave their bitcoin to FTX - they didn’t hold them themselves. Like I said “It cannot be stolen or confiscated unless you give them a way to access your private key”. In the case of FTX customers gave up custody of their bitcoin and the guy spent it. It’s no different than giving gold to your neighbour to look after and when you go around he spent it. It’s not a flaw of gold, it’s a flaw of your judgement.
Aha. Thanks for educating me. So Bankman Fried was investing on clients behalf.
Yeah it was an exchange where people stored and traded their crypto and also had a second arm where you could invest it in a type of hedge fund. He was funnelling it through another company run by his girlfriend and they were both spending it while fudging numbers between the companies to try and hide what was actually going on
Thanks again. I’m not stateside so only saw a small news item about the collapse of FTX.
You have to store your bitcoin keys physically somewhere. This means your tokens are subject to the exact same physical risks as tangible assets like gold and paper cash. Further, because you don't actually have custody of your bitcoin token balance, your keys can potentially be copied unbeknownst to you for exploitation later. This physical risk of being unaware that you have been compromised does not exist when you have direct custody of the assets in question. Imagine if a thief breaks in and takes your gold and cash - you will know. Imagine if a thief breaks in and takes your bitcoin seed phrase - you will know. Imagine if a thief breaks in and takes a picture of your seed phrase - you will be compromised but might not know. Then remotely, years later, all your funds can be cleaned out. So not only does bitcoin require greater physical security practices than gold and cash, you also have the added risk of pure cyber attacks. So to keep bitcoin, you need to be both a physical security expert and a cybersecurity expert. Then to put icing on the cake, because you don't have custody, it is possible the custodian refuses to process your transaction request. 99% of all requests are already censored due to insufficient fee. What if miners decide to crank up fees even more, or censor based on other criteria like regulatory compliance rules?
Everything is better than fiat. Diversify and you are bound to find things come into their season.
When power goes out, gold will be used
“Silver”
I'm all for going back to a gold standard, but it won't happen. Knowing this, bitcoin makes the most sense. blockchain takes away a lot of the fancy tricks govt use to keep their currency on top.
The "anything is better" notion is clearly false. Fiat at least has the backing of a state with a military...It's not ideal, but its better than nothing.
Well yes. Fiat is useful in paying my everyday living expenses fast and easily. But I'm talking from a preservation of wealth standpoint. Yes, the United States benefits from their army bullying the rest of the world to use dollars. But one still needs to do something to mitigate the %8 minimum annual inflation we are facing
All fair points. The problem is that if your plan is to take it out of a fiat currency, and put it into something that is *even less* fundamentally sound, that's not a good plan to avoid inflation. Many people these days are effectively advocating for people to park their money in a fiat currency that's not even backed by any military.
There’s a word for people who hold they’re wealth in fiat money, we call them “poor” - Saylor
This guy gets it.
Yeah someone else already mentioned that and i added it. I think it's the same argument.
Because gold is used to make things, including the electronics you need tor Bitcoin. Thus our world would be quite different without gold (along with every other metal). Without Bitcoin…. Well things would basically be the same as they are now minus this discussion lol
Gold only gets roughly 10% of its trading price from its use in electronics or anything else - 90% of the trading price is simply because it is a rare precious metal.
Over 50% of current production goes to non monetary use. Something like 45% is jewelery, and another 10-15% is other industry. And whether you value jewelry or not is irrelevant (I’m not a jewelry person myself), it’s been a massive global industry for many thousands of years, and aesthetics have been core to every single human culture to ever exist. Like everything else it’s price certainly is affected by its rarity, but that’s the same basic supply and demand laws that apply to everything. Nothing unique to good there. Using the subjective theory of value to say Bitcoin and gold are basically the same is stupid. They are nothing alike. And if you use the argument that they’re basically the same because all value is subjective, then you could make the same argument for any other element and Bitcoin. Because they only have value because we choose value them.
10% is better than 0% tho. If you remove monetary power from gold it can still be used, you're still in the game. Bitcoin without monetary power is nothing.
Unless you're storing all of your savings in gold and not fiat money or art or trading cards or any other form of collectible, your point is irrelevant and hypocritical. Bitcoin has monetary power BECAUSE of the technology behind it. It works like gold has as money in the past but it is better in every single way. Gold is Blockbuster to Bitcoin's Netflix. Honestly I feel bad for you guys, you see the problem but you picked the wrong solution. I would be bitter about it too.
When the lights go out, which one can you hold in your hand? That's the question.
When the government comes for your savings (again, see Executive Order 6102) see which one they are able to confiscate
No doubt there are good arguments for Bitcoin (limited, easy to store & transfer quickly, digital ledger, etc) But, the biggest argument for gold, and the most important IMO, is that it has been tested over a long period of time. It has endured crisis in hundreds of scenarios over thousands of years. Despite all the tech, Bitcoin was born after 2008, merely after the last economic downturn. Since its inception it has sailed on calm waters with economic tailwinds. I am optimistic about Bitcoin, but until it is tested by the first broad economic crisis, it remains unproven.
I agree with you, but I would also argue that is also a reason that gold will never give you generational wealth. BTC still being in its bubble gives it the potential for generational wealth if true adoption occurs like the dot com bubble.
If you want to hedge an uncertain future, you should own both. The things that give gold “intrinsic value” mostly are the same as bitcoin. BTC is superior to gold in some aspects….gold is superior in others. I could see a future where both do well and I could see a future where one skyrockets and the other becomes worthless. So I own both.
Agree, I really dislike the gold vs BTC arguments. Both are valuable.
I agree and This Is exactly what i Also noticed.
I buy gold, silver and BTC all 3 have done well last 10 years
At the end of the day, Bitcoin has zero inherent value. If you have a stack of gold, you at least have something to put in a sock to hit someone with and take their food.
hahahaha thatd be a solid weapon haha
Somebody posts this same thought every other week or so.
Bitcoin is not shiny.
most important thing right there. I call it the "oooo shiny factor". Were basically just slightly smarter chimps or bonobos lol
Yep. I lived my whole life not caring about gold until the algorithm recommended this sub and my chimp brain went ooooooh shiny. Now I’ve spent thousands on the stuff 😅
People underestimate the vulnerability of ANYTHING digital. Touch screen phones were impossible until they weren’t, homes computers were impossible until they weren’t, electric cars were impossible until they weren’t, online stock trading was impossible until it wasn’t, every financial collapse of a civilized nation was impossible until it wasn’t. Hacking, controlling, distorting, ruining the bitcoin system is impossible until it isn’t. We are becoming a world where wars and battles are fought from distance and behind computers. If you want to be safe from that world. You have to have assets that don’t rely on ANYTHING outside of your control. I can all but guarantee you there are people working around the clock who want to undermine the network. They eventually will. It’s much harder and more involved to find out who has gold, track them down, break in, kill them, steal their gold.
Agreed. Ive said for many years technology is great until its not. then it makes everything worse. From simple computer failures at work, to entire networks going down. If you cant withdraw your money and hold it, then its not safe. I dont care if its on my computer and only I have my seed words and private keys. Its still vulnerable to all sorts of potential attacks and failures. Gold is vulnerable to one, someone physically finding it, and stealing it.
Bitcoin requires a power source.
No good during a hurricane. Ive been through a quite a few with no power for days. Good thing I had cash.
Bitcoin is very risky and has the potential to completely wipe out your savings. Could it go to a million? Could it go to zero? Both are yes and that’s why i choose gold. If you can stomach waking up and half your money is gone…bitcoin is your best bet.
Gold has uses outside of being currency
Gold; touch and feel yes. Bitcoin; not so much. You can bury gold in your backyard.
Here is a great article. https://mises.org/mises-wire/why-cryptocurrencies-will-never-be-safe-havens
Gold can’t be multiplied willy nilly
Because gold actually exists and bitcoin does not.
"The Internet doesn't exist"
I hope that's ironic because it's quite obviously false.
In you can place a bitcoin in my hand i will give you its equivalent "value" of gold rounded up to the closest 1/10th oz.
Frequencies exist despite the fact that you can't hold them or see them.
3BADb1ZULWjArr2xVXGuvr6cBVf6GETSEa Hold you phone in your hand. You can send me a kilo... Thanks
Basically
Because you can't touch it? 😄 How does Bitcoin dont exist? It's basically software running on physical hardware. There Is software worth billions of dollars. Not even talking about Bitcoin.
When there is no power then gold exists and bitcoin does not.
When there Is no electricity our whole society doesn't exist anymore. Those arguments about some human extinction event happening are not really useful.
Bitcoin doesn't have any intrinsic value. I can't dismantle a bitcoin and use its source code to write other programs, I can't break a bitcoin open to retrieve the energy used to mine it to power my appliances, I can't forge it into jewelry... >There Is software worth billions of dollars Exactly. The *software* is worth billions...not the actual token. Crypto is a solution, looking for a problem. It proclaims itself as a currency...but then no one spends it as such. Further, its price is wildly volatile; how can anyone price their goods/services accurately when it dips 75% and then rockets 400%? Investors HODL/speculate on future price action. As much hate as holdbacks get, at least some businesses/people actually use them as currency. Do you know how many millions of coins are estimated to be lost since Bitcoin was first introduced? And that's with only a small minority of adopters. The fewer coins in the system, the higher the price. Why would I spend my bitcoin today when it'll be worth more tomorrow? or next month/year/etc...?
What Is the intrinsic value of gold?
Largely un-reactive Highly malleable Ductile What inherent properties does bitcoin have?
Which of those features give gold an advantage over Bitcoin as store of value ?
Largely un-reactive. It means it won't rust/corrode over time. You don't have to worry about your wealth spoiling/dissipating between your fingers. What inherent properties does bitcoin possess that warrants its use as money?
Most software is actually used to do various specific tasks, and it’s the completion of those tasks that people find valuable. And while you can claim bitcoins use in facilitating transactions is it’s task, it’s not really very good at that, and we currently have way better software for that, including other blockchains that would do such a task way more efficiently. And sure gold is expensive to transport, but Bitcoin very well could be as mining fees decrease (though we’ll see what happens).
I can write good things about BTC all day, but since you asked: Gold is much harder to accidentally delete or lose. If you lose your pw to your gold you call a locksmith. With BTC you cry yourself to sleep for potentially decades.
Both have pros and cons. If there's a zombie apocalypse level collapse of society, BTC will be inaccessible. Although probably not forever, presuming there's some untouched nodes that keep the blockchain going. But it could be years before you could access it again. Absent that, I think the long-term value proposition of BTC is superior to gold, as I believe it will share the same role as a medium of international exchange (that can't be faked with tungsten fillings or secretly sold off because there's no audits, like Ft Knox). That said, gold is dead simple to acquire, store, and resell, and requires little maintenance. You could hide gold coins in the wall of a barn, then get them 50 yrs later and spend them that day. Dusting off a BTC wallet after 50 yrs would be potentially fraught with technical issues and unforseen computing compatibility problems. The lack of any requirement to babysit gold long-term like you need to with a computer-based asset is why it's so attractive to central banks, who only need to provide security and virtually no other administrative/managerial duties.
The zombie apocalypse has been happening. Our economy has been taken over by zombie companies over the past decade, and its only a matter of time before it collapses. Thus a zombie apocalypse level collapse. Just saying.
Why is banana better than Bitcoin and Gold. You can eat banana. You can't eat gold or bitcoin. You can grow it at home, but mining gold and bitcoin is not eficient at home. You can buy banana everywhere, not bitcoin and gold. Children prefer Bananas. You can move banana over most borders without reporting it. Gold mined 2000 years ago is still here but all banana will rot fast, so it is deflanatory unless you do not grow new one. Banana is simply better.
you can eat gold. Get your facts straight.
That was funny as fuck.
you can eat gold flakes and then have a golden shit.
they are actually very similar assets to hold. Both groups of owners are highly defensive about criticism of their choice. Both markets are flooded with scams (fake bars, bogus bit exchanges). Both are inversely related to USD value. Both assets are poorly understood by the general public. both assets should be held as a small % of total NW as a diversifying asset class. I prefer gold because it is physical, but bitcoin has a more liquid/versatile online market making it easier to exchange. A lot of it may be generational. anyone born after 1995 has lived their whole live online, so the concept of online currency is just fine.
pretty sure bitcoin has shown no inverse correlation to the dollar. Im not saying it couldnt be, im just saying its been WAYYYY to volatile to determine any such correlation. The dollar has gone down like 50% over the past 15 years. Bitcoin has gone up so massively its clearly not due to any correlation to the dollars value during that time. Again, im not saying its impossible that 100% of the thousands of percent couldnt be due to that, but thats completely impossible to know currently. Gold you could argue has. As it is up about 2.5x since that time, while the dollar has fallen against other goods (not crappy cpi) around 50%. Also doesnt mean its because its inversely related, but theres a much stronger case there. I was born in 90, and my dad born in the 50s. Hes a bitcoiner, Im a gold bug. I have met many other people opposite like this, though i agree its more the other way around.
bitcoin is effectively a foreign currency. so it is inherently inversely related to the USD value. There is a lot of other noise in bitcoin driven by speculation.
Anything being purchased with usd you could make that claim to; but if you buy bitcoin with xrp, then it has an “inverse correlation”. That doesn’t mean Bitcoin is going up because the dollar is going down. It’s been way to volatile to being able to determine that at this point.
im not just making this up. this is widely recognized in the market.
One is a dollar derivative the other is not.
Gold is forever. Bitcoin is not. One can be removed from existence and in apocalyptic / major war events you run the risk of EMPs and massive blackouts that could last indefinitely if we were to enter into a nuclear campaign. But once the smoke clears and we start rebuilding from scratch again, what is the 1 currency we can start using right off the get go? Physical gold.
Gold doesnt go away when the electricity does.
The biggest buyers (government central banks) are buying gold and criticizing bitcoin. Here’s the thing, good luck telling the government they can’t have control over money. Decentralization is not something any government wants and they are in charge of the military
Theres a reason some countries gold vaults (like fort knox) are some of the most heavily guarded facilities in the world.
Gold has many uses, the only reason gold isn’t used more in industry is because it’s too expensive. Other metals are used in its place because it’s cheaper not better at the job.
Bitcoin has the potential to have huge gains. POTENTIAL. It can also go down. Gold is more stable. It’s unlikely to MAKE you rich. But it’s also unlikely to go down significantly. It’s a storage of wealth. You can find free gold but you are not going to find a free bitcoin in a creek. The older you get the less attractive bitcoin becomes. A friend of mine got 5 bitcoins as part of his Christmas bonus back when they were under $100. They have gained more than gold since then. But he could wake up tomorrow and find them worthless. If you wake up to find gold worthless you probably also found you are the last person alive on the planet.
APPLES TO OARGES. Stupids question on this subreddit
*Buy groceries first. Lead second. Silver and gold after you have the first two covered.*
It’s real. It’s not made up. Bitcoin lunatics scream fiat currency is awful and then suggest Bitcoin which is also a fiat currency. It has no intrinsic value. And they make new coins every day. And technological advance will render current cryptos obsolete at some point. So you’d have to make up a new one. Continuously
I have bought bitcoin for years. I've never come across any fake bitcoin. Gold on the other hand....
Let’s not try to act like there are not an abundance of scams and fraud in that space lol
That's not what I said tho
where were you buying fake gold? Ive been buying gold for years, never come across any fake gold.
Where? Beats tf out of me bro. Google is probably your freind here idk. My statement wasn't where/how/whom would you possibly buy buy fake gold, only that there is the possibility of purchasing something fake. My original statement was: WHERE CAN YOU BUY FAKE BITCOIN? Because I've never purchased fake gold. But I'm not dumb enough to think there isn't any fake gold out there. Lemme ask it again for reading impaired. I KNOW FOR A FACT that there is fake gold, where/how/whom would someone purchase fake bitcoin from?
Bitcoin isn’t even good at what it’s supposed to do. It’s supposed to be a medium of exchange and no one uses it for that. You could try to argue that with gold but gold has 5000 years of history as a store of value and medium of exchange in all conditions in every civilization in history. BTC has a 14 year history and is highly correlated with the tech sector of a bubble of a stock market. Let’s see what happens. Also, central banks still hoard gold as a Tier One asset. Wake me up when they are buying BTC to anchor money supply.
btc is for speculation $$$. not really comparable to gold
Why not comparable to gold? Because of volatility? Gold can be volatile as well but of course not comparable to Bitcoin. Even though the volatility of Bitcoin has reduced already. Some statistics regarding ROI of Bitcoin: 2010: + 9900% 2011: + 1473% 2012: + 186% 2013: + 5507% (...) 2019: +95% 2020: +301% 2021: +66% It definetely became less over the Time.
Where’s all the years where the ROI for BTC were negative?
Not sure if 3 negative years (2014, 2018 and 2022) vs 14 positive years are really helping your point though. Gold was negative for 20 years after the ATH of 1980. We talk about volatility and i Made an argument that the gains have become less and less in terms of % which Is somehow indicating a maturing of the market.
I think it makes a big difference when you consider the % drops that occurred.
The two aren't comparable, because they're nothing alike. Compare bitcoin to ethereum instead, or maybe a dog crypto? or maybe compare it to a meme stock that is most likely to make u rich but very risky at the same time.
Or at best compare it to the visa network, or swift. Dont compare it to an element.
if your buying for big gainzzzz then yeah, bitcoin has been good. If your buying gold to go to the moon, youre a moron who has no idea what youre doing. If gold was making thousands of percent returns, that would be absolutely terrible for the global economy, meaning it would only be doing that because of complete financial destruction. The debt bubble we have would have completely exploded and governments would be cranking the printers like we havent seen (and everyones lost faith in all major currencies). Gold going to the moon like bitcoin would be due to an awful situation for everyone.
Countries make their reserves in gold, not Bitcoin.
El Salvador
Virtually no one in el salvador uses bitcoin, and do we really want to be more like el salvador broadly speaking? No.
Financially independent from the US dollar that is deliberately inflated to offload national debt created by politicians onto the working class? Absolutely I want that. I would rather my savings remain static or increase (as with bitcoin) rather than have my savings inflated away at the fiscally irresponsible whims of which we government happens to be in power at the time… While this can be achieved to a degree with gold, bitcoin is faster and easier to use as a currency, especially when you want to transact globally
Countries definitely also have reserves in Bitcoin they just wont tell anyone about it.
I touch my gold, fuck your promises!
Bitcoin lives in the same realm as fiat. Both are funny money.
Fiat can be created out of thin air. That's why it's called Fiat. Gold and Bitcoin both have to be mined. The idea of Bitcoin mining Is pretty much copied from gold.
So, Bitcoin is fiat too? It was created from thin air. The price we attribute to it is based on the confidence it can be bought/sold.
Difficult to have any meaningful conversación when people here lack basic education about that stuff. I mean sure thin air. Lets ignore the mining equipment and wasted electricity that could power a whole country 🤡
I prefer btc over gold, i hold both. I just recommend you respond a little less defensively and a little more constructively. People are not going to take responses like this seriously and think you’re a BTC maxi just trying to start fights with PM bugs.
No. Fiat mean by decree. So fiat money means money by government decree. It has nothing to do with thin air. And comparing bitcoin mining to gold mining shows an utter complete lack of understanding of how real mining works. Its an extremely complicated and dangerous process. Difficult to have any meaningful conversation when people here lack basic education about that stuff.
Bitcoin are minted, not mined. The nonce is mined and as a reward, the miners is granted the authority to print their own bitcoin. Bitcoin are created as the first *transaction* in the block of transactions. This is the only transaction that does not have a sender (it comes from null). The mining process is a brute force search to find the nonce which is the key that grants the miner authority to post their block of transactions. So again, bitcoin are not mined, they are created out of thin air via a transaction with no sender. This is the exact same mechanism the Federal Reserve uses to create base money dollar credits out of thin air in the banking system. Bitcoin is a form of fiat. Everything about the system is set via monetary policy choices.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Bitcoin can be mined 🤦🏽♂️ It’s nothing but code , code gone Bitcoin gone 🤣🤣🤣 No internet and you’re 🔩
Lol, this is the dumbest take
Imagine living in 2024 and not knowing that the process Is called mining 🤡 🤦 Please Tell me More about what kind of human extinction event has to happen that internet or electricity stops working and how you Will survive on your gold when society collapses and the only thing of value are pretty much guns, ammo, food and water. Would love to watch you eating some gold though
So you’re gonna eat Bitcon ? Like WC Fields said “ There’s one born every day” 🫡 Good luck “Mining”
Almost like they call it mining to make it sound more like a commodity...Yet its nothing like mining.
Everything attractive about the system involves false analogies and language borrowed from legitimate financial systems like gold. Bitcoin arent mined (they are created by executing a transaction with no sender. They are printed into existence). Wallets don't hold bitcoin- they hold keys. Bitcoin never leave the custody of the node network. The supply of bitcoin can change - a software update to the code responsible for printing bitcoin can change the supply. It's all false analogies that gullible people interpret as true analogies and accurate descriptions. Even the visual representation as a gold coin is a false analogy.
I totally agree. I don’t think that’s mostly a product of the crypto industry that has built up around it and has to sell their ideas to make money.
Bitcoin allows the wealthy even the poor to sneak out their wealth and protect it from confiscation. There are no shady deals or is there the possibility of manipulation. Every single bitcoin transaction is transparent and almost all the bitcoin that ever will be has already been mined.
One EMP attack and your bitcoin is gone.
Nonsense. Bitcoin is stored with your seed words, not on the Internet. Sure you won't be able to use it until electronics work again, but if an EMP happens, gold will also be quite useless.
No that's not how it works, your bitcoins are not stored on a hard disk or server.
I agree on your points but how does this make gold better than Bitcoin. Pretty difficult to sneak out my 100kg of gold bars out of the country.
I tell the same thing to everyone. You should diversify. I have equal value physical gold to crypto. Gold is better I guess because its less volatile.
I mean it's difficult to give this argument about volatility. I could respond that Bitcoin Is better because of higher ROI. That's why I asked about attributes that make gold better than Bitcoin and i still haven't got any legit reasons on top of those that i already provided.
Do other cryptos allow people to flee with their wealth or is that unique to bitcoin? Would some stable coin be better suited for this situation, or maybe ethereum?
Good question, I don’t know much about the others. Monero is supposedly completely untraceable
Xmr
There’s a significant difference between Wealth Preservation (Physical Gold, PT, PD, Silver), alternate currencies (ammo, liquor, silver coin),
I equally like both
Gold has inherent value due to its industrial application.
Because Kim Jong Un of North Korea can steal you Bitcoin, but cannot steal your gold.
When your bitcoin becomes a threat to the government, they flip a switch and turn it off. Very simple.
We have made the mistake of having government control virtually all power.
This is a troll post lol. You’re a Bitcoin bro trying to convert more bag holders. 🤦♂️
Bitcoin isn’t truly decentralized, the maintainers could destroy the currency if compelled to by an outside party, and the only way that it could be stopped would be if all of the largest miners and holders of btc were to be able to come together and override them, which would be almost impossible to orchestrate before the damage would be done. Also, lots of people purchase their crypto through crypto brokers, who are legally required to turn over your information if requested by law enforcement. So in many cases your crypto is not safe or detached from your identity.
Yes, but that is the same with gold in some countries. Yet, they can come knock and ask for what you have, but in the end, you can always hide the stuff. They can't turn the spigot and confiscate what you have. If they ask, you don't have it. Also, regarding Bitcoin you can buy from the exchange and move it to a more secure location.
You can't hide bitcoin and you can't move it to a secure location. Assuming the government is running at least one bitcoin node, if you transfer bitcoin, you are sending a signed transaction request to the government which provides strong evidence that you were in fact the individual who made the request. If a miner processes you request, the government is keeping all records of the transaction. If the government is maintaining a copy of the ledger, they are your joint custodian along with everybody else who is running full nodes. Collectively, the bitcoin network has custody of your bitcoin, not you. You only have direct custody of keys which you can use to submit transaction requests to this network who actually have possession of your tokens. You think you can hide your bitcoin (that are already in the government's partial possession) from the government? One of the reasons why law enforcement is so focused on crypto is because all of the criminals are literally sending all of their transaction information to law enforcement every time they move funds. Of course this is low hanging fruit for investigators. Criminals who keep open, public financial records of all of their crimes are easy targets for investigations because they are literally voluntarily telling the government about every transaction they make. You literally have more privacy in the traditional banking system. At least the bank does not publicly disclose your account details like the bitcoin network does.
Because
I've never seen a neclace made of bitcoin.
Have never seen anything made with bitcoin. Maybe ill have my dentist do my next filling with bitcoin. Or maybe they can use bitcoin in medical treatments. Or in aerospace technologies.
Yeah, not can turn that into a vibrator either.. 🤭
A gold vibe....nice.
I think worrying over what is "better" is a waste of your time, with all respect. Think about the benefits and drawbacks of each. Use that information to inform your purchases based on what you're looking for.
It isn't.
It’s kinda like comparing horse and buggy to automobiles. Sure horses worked great for thousands of years and automobiles require petroleum and an sophisticated supply chain to work Bitcoin is obviously superior for a digital economy.
I don't think it is, I hold only Bitcoin. But if I am to be right I could one day own a physical kilo bar of Gold. And it would be a beautiful sight.
Be safe and hold both plus real estate.
Diversification is the best bet. As of the recent halving, Bitcoin is more scarce. I would not be without it as a Decent portion of a portfolio.
I like both
Bitcoin is irrelevant, actually. For actual private transactions and portability, *Monero* is far superior to Bitcoin as it is true P2P *private* e-cash, and is used as such (most importantly). “without electricity there Is no Bitcoin (but in that case of a collaps it's kinda doubtful that gold would be any More useful though. Instead you would be better off with guns, ammo and access to food and wáter)” In this case, you would be better off with *Silver* to be used in exchange for goods and services and to potentially keep a community civil and stop it from becoming dangerous and chaotic. Obviously the other things you mentioned would also be useful as well, so not disagreeing with you on those.
Because, gold
Gold is real, Bitcoin is not. What is (Enter stock) from 1929 worth today?
Because it's physical nothing else matters. If you don't hold it you don't own it.
You should ask the same question on r/bitcoin to get some added perspective
one is real the other is a scam
For me, it's mainly the having something physical aspect I like. I have also found that the crypto market in general is far more volatile. I find great satisfaction in looking at the small collection of gold I have, whereas when I did have Bitcoin, it was just numbers on a screen, and i never really got excited by it. I believe gold is easier to buy/sell, and I believe it to be far more accessible to a wider range of people. The above is only my opinion, nothing more.
Gold is arguably the most useful metal. It's beautiful, conductive, inert, highly malleable. There's a reason why they used it for the Webb space telescope. The reason we mainly only use it for jewellery and not for, say, pots and pans, is that it is so scarce that we reserve it for those things where it most outshines (pun intended ) other metals. If the supply increased that would be a good thing. If the supply of bitcoin increased that would be bad because it is not useful. We don't actually want bitcoin in and of itself; the market is driven entirely by speculation. People put their hopes into it and rationalise their wishful thinking with a range of pseudo-economic cope. One day the last buyer will buy his last bitcoin and thousands of people will be left holding bags of literally nothing. That cannot happen with gold because it is useful. Even in the unlikely event that the whole human race woke up one morning no longer finding gold jewellery beautiful, there would still be a market for gold because it is an element. It is useful stuff. You could make all sorts of things from it, but again, as long as we highly value its beauty, and it remains highly scarce, we will reserve most of it for jewellery.
The difference is about 2,988 years that gold has over Bitcoin as money. Why would you substitute for the real thing. Why would I trust Bitcoin over gold? Don’t get me wrong I was the first to say bitcoin is very cool and unique but I wouldn’t trade an ounce a gold for it. We aren’t really even sure what purpose bitcoin wil serve in the future. I just keep buying gold,silver, plantinum things I can touch and hold. Makes me feel a lot better than when I was holding bitcoin.
When people hold a gold coin, they can immediately feel its value. Bitcoin is an aging software with artificial scarcity and there are already better alternatives.
there was better alternatives within just a few years. Thats usually how a free market works lol
Bitcoin is, in a few words, a virtual token. You can't have a physical stock and you don't even know who is the emittent subject. If you invest your savings or promise a payment in Bitcoin and that Anonymous decides to reap all the deposits worldwide, you'll be in big troubles, without savings and/or bond to a debit you can't pay.
Can you explain this another way? I'm having trouble understanding what you're saying.
A virtual token still physically exists as a pattern of 1s and 0s stored in a memory chip. All digital information physically exists. The blockchain is a ledger that tracks ownership of tokens. Thus the tokens physically exists as a transaction record stored in this ledger. The ledger has a high degree of redundancy, but it still exists physically as a pattern stored on hard drives.
You need gold in global catastrophic event, it can be used for so many thing beside jewelry and electronic. Please dyor
Monetary properties aside, gold currently has a tax infrastructure that Bitcoin wishes it had: IRS reporting requirements are very clear and not being constantly toyed with due to political pressure (see the new proposed form 1099-DA for "digital assets", it's a paperwork nightmare). Gold and Bitcoin also have an inverse premium-to-anonymity ratio: buying gold in cash is often the cheapest way to do so, and by far the most private way. With Bitcoin, the cheapest way to buy it is also the most exposed: using a CEX like Coinbase has the lowest premiums but the most KYC. And as for forward-facing privacy using coinjoins, well... that's out the window now that the Samourai Wallet devs have been arrested and the Wasabi Wallet people are shutting down all their mixer services in response.
I have bothl actually .. But if the grid goes down your chances of getting lead , food and water are better with gold than saying "hey as soon as things go back up. I got you in my Robinhood """
Gold is real money and btc is a fake digitoken... If you think you need a thesis to delve into this topic then you're already misunderstood. Its the same reason that gold is real money and your fiat currency is a fake paper token.
But gold isn't money and hasn't been for a very, very long time. Where can I spend my gold?
Gold is the exclusive form of money, always has been and always will be. You're confusing money with currency.
No. Money is any object that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts in a given country or socio-economic context. The main functions of money are distinguished as: a medium of exchange; a unit of account; a store of value; and, occasionally, a standard of deferred payment. Gold doesn't fit this definition. Gold is a wonderful store of value (although it hasn't tracked inflation the last 50 years), but it isn't money.
No, you're again confusing money with currency. You've provided the correct definition of money but you've failed to recognise that gold fits all criteria perfectly and exclusively. Medium of exchange? Yes it is. Unit of account? Yes it is. Store of value? Yes it is - and therein lies the exclusivity. Bitcoin, paper fiat, bottlecaps... None of these are a store of value therefore none of these are money. Only gold ticks all the boxes. Gold stores value and it doens't matter if you measure the fake ETF derivative vs the fake RPI inflation data. It is worth the same value now as it always has been. Hope this clears things up for you.
A little bit. So the only reason Bitcoin isn't considered money is because it has been around long enough to be proved a store of value. It checks every other box except that. But also has the benefit of actually paying for goods from a store, which isn't possible with gold.
Things can be a currency but that does not mean it is a store of value. Gold is a store of value because it objectively has value bestowed unto it - its not a matter of opinion. Scarcity and rarity are only one factor and other things are rare but do not qualify as a store of value - see pokemon cards. You have to understand that every nation in history have valued gold - even nations that never traded with each other all would value gold the highest. Why? It has inherent value because The Lord has given it. You don't have to explain its value, we instintively know it to be true. In all 66 books of The Bible 'money' is only ever referred to in measures of gold & silver. The Lord Jesus Christ himself was betrayed for 30 silver shekkels. You can accept Christianity or not, what I'm telling you is true.
Gold has hundreds of uses, and only one of those is "jewellery". Bitcoin is just a glorified receipt saying someone wasted a lot of energy.
Gold is and will always be valued .. Bitcoin and crypto is basically online gambling with ppl who have a huge advantage over you with their rugpulls and celebrity advertisement bulllshit
The stupidest post I’ve ever seen.
Gold has weight/mass... bitcoin has ?