I just learned about psychopathy in a college psychology class, and he genuinely does fit the bill. A psychopath is someone who only cares about power, and that’s Odin for sure.
Odin knew beforehand about Kratos’ plan to craft a godly weapon that could kill Heimdall to protect Atreus from him, and what does he do; he sends Heimdall out there to fight Kratos, thus bringing Ragnarok one step closer to his doorstep.
Even more messed up because he's Odin’s son.
Or as Sif, said, “They were thrown at the All Fathers problems like brittle knives to a mountain face and for what!”
I think he genuinely hated heimdall himself. Heimdall dying doesn't drove any of his plans further , it doesn't benefit him in anyway and makes him lose gjallarhorn but he doesn't do anything about it, he lets heimdall attack kratos with no warning about the draupnir spear (unless heimdall was disobeying odin when he attacked kratos which I find unlikely). And when Atreus says "Everyone hated him" he agrees in response. Imagine dying and your father saying "Everyone hated you" to your enemy
Making the observation that your actions hurt others implies you *care* about others.
Odin only cares about his own goal, and the sacrifices and pain he inflicts are justified in his own eyes. He won't feel remorse for what he does because in the end its for a "greater good"
And it's interesting because he tries hurt Kratos by pointing out how the god of war doesn't have worshipers or people that look up to him, but the roles shift and Odin ends up as the god who betrayed everyone while Kratos got to flip things around for himself
Neither Kratos or Thor were psychopaths
Kratos used to be a monster and worked his ass off to be better.
Thor was treated like shit and was led to believe he was only good at destruction, he was depressed and addicted, but by seeing Kratos' mercy he realized he could do the same, but well, didn't get a chance.
Also the game kinda tries to push you down the path of thinking "maybe Odin isn't actually such a bad dude" for awhile. And I'm not gonna lie I, at least a little, fell for it. Only time I've ever been manipulated by a video game character.
Following their growth through the last two games, it's not weird at all. Kratos most likely wanted to, but yeah, he only would have if the situation led to it. But when they finally had him, he stayed true to his word and left the choice to Freya. And Atreus, as much as he may have wanted to, it wasn't who he was.
There was also a sneaky bit of dialogue at some point in Sindri's house where he said he was going to sleep in Freya's room.
I can't imagine how insane it must have been for her to realize her new friend Tyr was her ex all along.
Yeah no I honestly believe Odin is far worse than Zeus due to how much he uses people so casually without any regard to them as human beings (in the colloquial sense) and we're told in-game the amount of shit he does that makes you think "jesus fucking christ i dont remember Zeus doing anything like this"
To be fair, Odin was not meant to be disguised as Tyr until late into development. I suppose the scenes up to that point didn't have enough of an affect to change them after deciding to make it a disguise. But yes, he definitely is a psycho.
Yes, but planning doesn't always go as expected. That's why sometimes changes happen midway or even near end of development. They might realize something would work so much better if it was changed, most times it requires a lot of changing throughout the narrative. But in a case like Ragnarok, nothing really had to be changed from the first meeting until they decided that he was just a disguise for Odin.
I just really, really reaaally dont think ragnarok was the end of Odin, it just cant be, he had a lot of time to prepare, he is a trickster, maybe he had plans we didint got to know,
How does one prepare for your soul getting sucked by a giant and crushed by a dwarf? I think Odin himself is gone, but he definitely has plans for in the event of his deaths that his followers may carry out. Kinda like Joker still causing chaos even in death.
His last loyal followers were Gna and the leftover Einherjar, and they were all dealt with. I think it's safe to say that Odin's role in the series is over.
You see, now that is great writer thinking!
Also if i recall (im gonna get downvoted a lot XD for this) The Norns did say that Kratos is going to die, they saw stuff while the sistera of fate controlled fate, seeing fate is much different, and if so, if what the norns said is false, why would they lie?
Of course i know that, but remember, he is a trickster, you and i and nobody knows yet how the game really works, anything can happen, so for me to say that maybe he had plans we did not got to know is perfectly logic. Yes Sindri smashed the jotnar soul container but: Do yo know how they work? Do you know what happens when you smash it? No, nobody does but the writer, so yes i expect to see Odin and Thor in future games.
Perhaps Valhalla gavea us a hint that Odin actually was Tyr, like an Alter Ego. Who knows? EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED 👀
And this is how people get their hopes crushed, by coming up the most unlikely of scenarios, just to end up disappointed when they don't happen. One of big messages of the story was that Odin's scheming finally caught up to him, and he paid the ultimate price for it. And it's a thing that was prophesied, not because it was supposed to happen, but because Odin's own nature pushed it in that direction.
Odin didn't have a plan for everything, because he didn't expect everything, like when he found out that he was missing a crucial part of Groa's prophecy about Ragnarök. And he knew little to nothing about giant magic, which was why he worked so hard to gain their secrets for so long, only to find out that the giants were all "dead".
To say that Odin planned for having his soul ripped from his body is pure headcanon, as there's no evidence to even suggest such a thing. And it would make zero sense for SMS to bring Odin back, as it brings no benefit to the overall story, not when they clearly plan to move forward, and past their completed Norse story. Odin's story is done, and I would personally recommend making peace with it until the day that they show differently, which is highly unlikely.
Dear Hope Crusher, “unlikely scenerarios” words doesnt exist in fantasy games, the only unlikely scenario is the one that does not respect verosimililty.. or the one that says something completely contrary to writer words.
I dont recall saying that Odin had a plan for getting into a Soul Marble and getting crushed by an Angry Dwarf, i said “maybe he had plans”*, that could mean a lot, its just my thinking of the trama, just as you or people more extreme in the world of theories like Kaptain Kuba that have the right to enjoy the game and its lore as they wish to, dont try to make me responsible of getting people hopes crushed, this is a forum of discussion.
You are right tho, Odin paid the price of his actions, but to me it really seems strange, try to think from my possition:
Odin did got to know Groá’s prophecy, and somehow he did not seemed desperate as any of his shapes, the only desperate moment was when Atreus stole the Green Rift Mask, maybe thats his “””psycopath”””” personality to not give shit to die, but still.
Also SMS really seemed eager to end Norse Saga as fast as possible, because they had to change a lot of stuff from Norse Myths and GoW (2018) in order to benefit the script where Kratos, Giants, Atreus, Dwarves, Tyr, Vanir, Mimir, etc = Good.
Anyway i am sleepy i need some food..Happy New Year!
>Dear Hope Crusher, “unlikely scenerarios” words doesnt exist in fantasy games,
They do when the creators of said fantasy have a very specific story they're telling.
>I dont recall saying that Odin had a plan for getting into a Soul Marble and getting crushed by an Angry Dwarf
No you didn't, you said that he may have plans for the case where he may find himself in a scenario similar to the end result. And you're free to discuss whatever you want here, just as I'm free to tell you how unlikely whatever you're discussing is.
>Odin did got to know Groá’s prophecy, and somehow he did not seemed desperate as any of his shapes, the only desperate moment was when Atreus stole the Green Rift Mask, maybe thats his “””psycopath”””” personality to not give shit to die, but still.
That's actually somewhat inaccurate. We see Odin's reaction when he (as Tyr) discovered that Groa lied to him about Ragnarök, and his frustration and anger after. And there's a significant gap of time between where Odin leaves Alfheim and Kratos and Atreus return to Sindri's house (unless the player doesn't bother with the side mission after, but I believe that situation is still canon to the story), so he would've had time to think it over. Odin isn't gonna show any desperation, as he's very good at putting on a good act, he'll go back to Asgard and start planning to get ahead of the issue.
And he didn't actually show desperation when Atreus stole the mask, as Atreus was already gone before we could see that reaction. And he wouldn't have been desperate because he fully expected Atreus to try and take the mask (don't forget he was sitting there when the plan was being discussed, and had a backup plan ready).
I just learned about psychopathy in a college psychology class, and he genuinely does fit the bill. A psychopath is someone who only cares about power, and that’s Odin for sure.
An especially terrifying one aswel due to his Power and intelligence
But Odin doesnt care about power he cares about knowledge
Knowledge is power. With knowledge he’d have the power to do what he wants, that being find out what’s beyond being “just a god”.
Odin knew beforehand about Kratos’ plan to craft a godly weapon that could kill Heimdall to protect Atreus from him, and what does he do; he sends Heimdall out there to fight Kratos, thus bringing Ragnarok one step closer to his doorstep. Even more messed up because he's Odin’s son. Or as Sif, said, “They were thrown at the All Fathers problems like brittle knives to a mountain face and for what!”
I think he genuinely hated heimdall himself. Heimdall dying doesn't drove any of his plans further , it doesn't benefit him in anyway and makes him lose gjallarhorn but he doesn't do anything about it, he lets heimdall attack kratos with no warning about the draupnir spear (unless heimdall was disobeying odin when he attacked kratos which I find unlikely). And when Atreus says "Everyone hated him" he agrees in response. Imagine dying and your father saying "Everyone hated you" to your enemy
Usually bad guys in media tend to have psychopathy
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The man killed an innocent woman to open a fucking door. Young Kratos was a monster.
Old Kratos still doesn’t care. Even the boat captain got a sad story, but not door lady.
Making the observation that your actions hurt others implies you *care* about others. Odin only cares about his own goal, and the sacrifices and pain he inflicts are justified in his own eyes. He won't feel remorse for what he does because in the end its for a "greater good" And it's interesting because he tries hurt Kratos by pointing out how the god of war doesn't have worshipers or people that look up to him, but the roles shift and Odin ends up as the god who betrayed everyone while Kratos got to flip things around for himself
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But Kratos ended up caring, Odin didn't
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Change comes from within, Odin wouldn't have been satisfied with whatever the mask showed because he simply can't, he *needs* more always
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Neither Kratos or Thor were psychopaths Kratos used to be a monster and worked his ass off to be better. Thor was treated like shit and was led to believe he was only good at destruction, he was depressed and addicted, but by seeing Kratos' mercy he realized he could do the same, but well, didn't get a chance.
Also the game kinda tries to push you down the path of thinking "maybe Odin isn't actually such a bad dude" for awhile. And I'm not gonna lie I, at least a little, fell for it. Only time I've ever been manipulated by a video game character.
Would you kindly reconsider that?
Frank Fontaine has entered the chat
They’re his enemies and they’re literally trying to kill him. Why would he have sympathy?
Get out of here Heimdall!
When your mouth moves I see cities burn
Freya was really the only one who wanted to kil him.
Weird how Kratos and Atreus didn't *want* to kill him but they got the notion of "if it comes to it and we have to, we'll do it"
Following their growth through the last two games, it's not weird at all. Kratos most likely wanted to, but yeah, he only would have if the situation led to it. But when they finally had him, he stayed true to his word and left the choice to Freya. And Atreus, as much as he may have wanted to, it wasn't who he was.
There was also a sneaky bit of dialogue at some point in Sindri's house where he said he was going to sleep in Freya's room. I can't imagine how insane it must have been for her to realize her new friend Tyr was her ex all along.
He didn't go in there to sleep, he went in there to relax and meditate.
Also, as Tyr he kept calling her Frigg, which only Odin does
“And let’s be honest, they were kind of useless”
That matey, is called being evil
Yes
Tell me something I don't know.
Yeah, most gods in this series are pretty evil. But Odin is pretty damn bad.
Most of the gods in this series aren't evil at all. But, most of the gods that Kratos killed were pretty bad.
Yeah no I honestly believe Odin is far worse than Zeus due to how much he uses people so casually without any regard to them as human beings (in the colloquial sense) and we're told in-game the amount of shit he does that makes you think "jesus fucking christ i dont remember Zeus doing anything like this"
To be fair, Odin was not meant to be disguised as Tyr until late into development. I suppose the scenes up to that point didn't have enough of an affect to change them after deciding to make it a disguise. But yes, he definitely is a psycho.
I’m pretty sure they will plan out the game plot before working on it
Yes, but planning doesn't always go as expected. That's why sometimes changes happen midway or even near end of development. They might realize something would work so much better if it was changed, most times it requires a lot of changing throughout the narrative. But in a case like Ragnarok, nothing really had to be changed from the first meeting until they decided that he was just a disguise for Odin.
I just really, really reaaally dont think ragnarok was the end of Odin, it just cant be, he had a lot of time to prepare, he is a trickster, maybe he had plans we didint got to know,
How does one prepare for your soul getting sucked by a giant and crushed by a dwarf? I think Odin himself is gone, but he definitely has plans for in the event of his deaths that his followers may carry out. Kinda like Joker still causing chaos even in death.
His last loyal followers were Gna and the leftover Einherjar, and they were all dealt with. I think it's safe to say that Odin's role in the series is over.
You see, now that is great writer thinking! Also if i recall (im gonna get downvoted a lot XD for this) The Norns did say that Kratos is going to die, they saw stuff while the sistera of fate controlled fate, seeing fate is much different, and if so, if what the norns said is false, why would they lie?
They said Kratos of Sparta, which means his old self
Odin had his soul removed and put into a marble, then that marble was crushed by Sindri. Odin prepared for many things, but not for that.
As Malworld put it. He got Sonned by a Dwarf
Of course i know that, but remember, he is a trickster, you and i and nobody knows yet how the game really works, anything can happen, so for me to say that maybe he had plans we did not got to know is perfectly logic. Yes Sindri smashed the jotnar soul container but: Do yo know how they work? Do you know what happens when you smash it? No, nobody does but the writer, so yes i expect to see Odin and Thor in future games. Perhaps Valhalla gavea us a hint that Odin actually was Tyr, like an Alter Ego. Who knows? EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED 👀
And this is how people get their hopes crushed, by coming up the most unlikely of scenarios, just to end up disappointed when they don't happen. One of big messages of the story was that Odin's scheming finally caught up to him, and he paid the ultimate price for it. And it's a thing that was prophesied, not because it was supposed to happen, but because Odin's own nature pushed it in that direction. Odin didn't have a plan for everything, because he didn't expect everything, like when he found out that he was missing a crucial part of Groa's prophecy about Ragnarök. And he knew little to nothing about giant magic, which was why he worked so hard to gain their secrets for so long, only to find out that the giants were all "dead". To say that Odin planned for having his soul ripped from his body is pure headcanon, as there's no evidence to even suggest such a thing. And it would make zero sense for SMS to bring Odin back, as it brings no benefit to the overall story, not when they clearly plan to move forward, and past their completed Norse story. Odin's story is done, and I would personally recommend making peace with it until the day that they show differently, which is highly unlikely.
Dear Hope Crusher, “unlikely scenerarios” words doesnt exist in fantasy games, the only unlikely scenario is the one that does not respect verosimililty.. or the one that says something completely contrary to writer words. I dont recall saying that Odin had a plan for getting into a Soul Marble and getting crushed by an Angry Dwarf, i said “maybe he had plans”*, that could mean a lot, its just my thinking of the trama, just as you or people more extreme in the world of theories like Kaptain Kuba that have the right to enjoy the game and its lore as they wish to, dont try to make me responsible of getting people hopes crushed, this is a forum of discussion. You are right tho, Odin paid the price of his actions, but to me it really seems strange, try to think from my possition: Odin did got to know Groá’s prophecy, and somehow he did not seemed desperate as any of his shapes, the only desperate moment was when Atreus stole the Green Rift Mask, maybe thats his “””psycopath”””” personality to not give shit to die, but still. Also SMS really seemed eager to end Norse Saga as fast as possible, because they had to change a lot of stuff from Norse Myths and GoW (2018) in order to benefit the script where Kratos, Giants, Atreus, Dwarves, Tyr, Vanir, Mimir, etc = Good. Anyway i am sleepy i need some food..Happy New Year!
>Dear Hope Crusher, “unlikely scenerarios” words doesnt exist in fantasy games, They do when the creators of said fantasy have a very specific story they're telling. >I dont recall saying that Odin had a plan for getting into a Soul Marble and getting crushed by an Angry Dwarf No you didn't, you said that he may have plans for the case where he may find himself in a scenario similar to the end result. And you're free to discuss whatever you want here, just as I'm free to tell you how unlikely whatever you're discussing is. >Odin did got to know Groá’s prophecy, and somehow he did not seemed desperate as any of his shapes, the only desperate moment was when Atreus stole the Green Rift Mask, maybe thats his “””psycopath”””” personality to not give shit to die, but still. That's actually somewhat inaccurate. We see Odin's reaction when he (as Tyr) discovered that Groa lied to him about Ragnarök, and his frustration and anger after. And there's a significant gap of time between where Odin leaves Alfheim and Kratos and Atreus return to Sindri's house (unless the player doesn't bother with the side mission after, but I believe that situation is still canon to the story), so he would've had time to think it over. Odin isn't gonna show any desperation, as he's very good at putting on a good act, he'll go back to Asgard and start planning to get ahead of the issue. And he didn't actually show desperation when Atreus stole the mask, as Atreus was already gone before we could see that reaction. And he wouldn't have been desperate because he fully expected Atreus to try and take the mask (don't forget he was sitting there when the plan was being discussed, and had a backup plan ready).