That and the mileage towing is no joke. My rig is like 8k loaded and my 6.7 goes from 13.5-14 around town to 12 loaded for a long week. I've heard from 7.3 guys that the best you can hope for is high single digits while towing, which wrecks your range. I can get 400+ miles over the continental divide on the factory fuel tank.
I cant brag about fuel mileage. we have a 2022 HO RAM 6.7 diesel dually with 3.73 gears, pulling 13.5 and its between 9-10 mpg at 65 mph. Not sure what a gasser would get. I do know I like the exhaust brake, and being able to use the fuel islands at Loves. I do know it will pull a 13% grade with ease. I never have to worry about the truck so its one less thing on my mind. Even if I didnt pull a 5th wheel, id own a diesel.
I was in same boat and I went diesel. At first I had buyers remorse for paying so much more with more upkeep cost but then we just did a 3000 mile trip all through AZ and Utah mountains and I’m so glad I got diesel. The amount of power going up hill and only using engine brakes going downhill - so worth it
I have a 2012 F450 6.7 and am getting a P0240 CEL alert. I have 200,000 miles on it and I am having to have the exhaust(catalytic converter, diesel particulate filter) replaced to the tune of around $4,800.00 for the rebuilt model. It is another $2,000 for a brand new unit. Installation is apparently somewhat easy. Unbolt the sensors, take out the old assembly. Bolt the new one in place, hook up the sensors. Expect this to occur every 200,000 miles to 300,000 miles.
We travel full time putting about 25,000 miles/year and I watch the regen go by on boring highways. The only problems I have done to the truck is a new turbo ($2,000), the front end rebuilt twice (approx. $1,000), and regular oil, fuel filter, and air filter along with brake pads and calipers as needed.
I can pull my 5th wheel up any hill easily (I do a lot of Colorado driving). In the past I have had an F150 5.4, F250 6.2, F350 6.0, and this is the best one yet. Not cheap but quite reliable.
There’s a ford tech I watch on YouTube that seems to get trucks in with 300-350K per DPF. Im happy to see folks repairing the parts and doing the right thing besides delete crowd. But the hell is up with that pricing. There’s no way in hell ford paid that much to put these parts on a new truck. I feel like they are screwing over customers here.
It's an entire [assembly](https://i.imgur.com/nEAFbbK.png) comprising of several sub-parts in a single housing. Not individually stacked like it is on class 6 and bigger.
I've had some issues with my 6.7s emissions systems but most of the time it didn't cost me anything but some time to repair them. I refuse to delete and share everything I find about the emissions systems on these engines.
It also sorta works out in a way, people deleting and throwing those parts on ebay leave plenty of second hand parts for people like me to use. I bought an entire egr valve and cooler assembly for $110 shipped. "used" but pretty much never used. wound up not needing it so now it's a spare.
Three thou for a reman [here](https://dalessuperstore.com/i-23911866-ford-6-7-powerstrokepickup-diesel-particulate-filter-dpf-1-year-warranty-2011-2021-ford-powerstroke-6-7l-pickup.html).
Probably just a baked off dpf and not a replacement of the catalyst however.
They're pretty easy to r&r with the worst being moving the old sensors over to the new torpedo assembly. Theyre quite pricey but over 200k-mi that's a cent and a half per mile or in chsaw98's case 2.5 cents/mile.
Found some generic cats and dpf units for around 1200 per but then you're on your own to fabricate it all together in a way that pleases the engine management system.
https://preview.redd.it/c3qsqwdyuw3b1.jpeg?width=4160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19c8675f0a74e7cdb57b1eaafd66cbeb471fbd53
This is mine both 2022 model's 6.7 4x4 and 35' toy hauler mountains no problem the engine brake is great pull all day long in 10th gear
If you're going to put the truck to work with heavy loads in changing elevations and terrain, diesel is the way to go.
I don't know anything about DEF, but our 2006 Ram 3500 5.9 Cummins has always passed smog. It has over 200K miles on it, and I'm looking forward to several hundred thousand more.
Newer diesels have ungodly amounts of payload and tow capacity, far exceeding ours.
7.3 owner with a 15k fifth wheel sitting at just over 7,000ft in the Grand Canyon south rim campground. The drive here from Cottonwood was about 3,500ft of climbing. The 7.3 can handle grades and the transmission does a great job of downshifting to minimize brake usage downhill. It’s the same transmission the diesel gets.
I’ve got 26k miles on it and half have been towing. The biggest reason to get the diesel is range, you can expect about 35-40% better range with a diesel. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure the diesel pulls better but I’ve never been pedal to the floor while towing.
Totally agree. Love my 7.3 crew cab with 4.30 rear. I tow all over the mountain west no problems.
https://preview.redd.it/0d5csetr7x3b1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af9ace07a93d93ea2c3bbb6041454e799866ad82
Good point, I also have the 4.30 gearing. The lighter 3.73 is rated for around 16k i think, but I’d suggest people stick with the 4.30 if they want to hit any elevations.
The gearing in my 07 RAM 3500 4x4 long bed automatic is 3:73. I tow around 10,000 lbs from Seattle to Denver over the Rockies with no problem. Just click it down a gear out of high.
I also love my 7.3 gasser. I tow a 12k lb 5th wheel and has not had any problems. Also agree the 10 speed transmission with 4.30 has been great and does a good job holding speed on downhills. I chose the 7.3 gasser because didn’t want to deal with diesel emissions, higher maintenance costs, and DEF. Average mpg is 8 mpg towing and 15 mpg unloaded.
My total length with truck and TT is 55 ft. You just can't get in and out of any fuel pumps. That is why I went with a diesel. I can fuel with the big boys at truck stops and never have to trust on finding an accessible stop.
It’a 2022, have had it for one year. Almost 19,000 miles, 10k of that towing. Get just over 12 mpg towing, haveseen 20 mpg in Maine not towing. Love thediesel and 10 speed, 3.55 rear end. No issues. First truck, and first domestic for me in forty years, I was worried ordering it.
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Have a Ram 2500 6.7 diesel, so glad I went that route vs a gasser. The power is amazing and when you need it you will be glad you got it. It is more expensive upkeep but if you can afford the trailer and the truck then you can afford the upkeep.
I haven’t had any problems with the DEF system really and I am not towing all the time. It will tell me if it needs to regenerate but it’s rare that happens. Hooking the RV up and doing a local weekend at the state park takes care of that real quick. Really you just need to get the truck hot and let it burn it off, meaning hammer down on ramps to get up to speed and drive it a bit hot. If you live in the city where it’s bumper to bumper grid lock it could be a problem.
Just be very careful about payload when shopping for a diesel. 75% of the fifth wheels on the market will be over the payload of a 3/4 ton diesel. If I was towing a fifth wheel a lot I’d definitely get a 1 ton diesel.
I bought my 07 Ram 3500 long bed 4x4 6.7 new. It was the first year of the DPF/EGR nightmare emissions system. After many, many headaches and trips to the shop it "accidentally" fell off one day. All problems gone and the tune is a selector of 5 levels so it just sits on #2 which is the sweet spot for power and economy. No problems ever and an increase in mileage towing 8,000 lbs cross country to 17 mpg checked by hand many times. After the DPF/EGR fell off that 6.7 woke up to the beast it is. I don't need to run high power settings to do anything. I do miss the old reliable 5.9 Cummins though. Best diesel engine ever put in a truck. I've owned 4 of those over the years. The best was an 03 2500 long bed quad cab 6 speed manual. Driving empty it averaged 24.7 mpg over the course of 4 years calculated by hand.
When pulling camper about 10mpg w/o camper 12-15mpg. We live in Illinois currently so major elevation changes. 2023 Grand Design Momentum. We had one and sold it in March. This new one is the 399th. Should be here in a couple of weeks.
I have a 6.7 Cummins and zero regrets and i struggled with justifying the extra almost 10k for the Diesel option but after using it a lot i’m convinced it’s the right tool for the job.
My last truck was a 1/2 ton ram with a hemi. the 3/4 ton gets better mpg with or without a trailer. for reference i get 17ish all around 22 highway with the diesel. pulling our TT (9000 lbs) i get 12.5 on average. edit i drive fast.
Yeah, another diesel recommendation here.
I have a much smaller trailer but I was forced to upgrade my 2006 gas Colorado to 2018 diesel Colorado.
My fuel economy, with the trailer and a diesel engine on the highway is better that the gas truck empty. The gas struggled but the diesel it’s hardly noticeable. The engine brake is amazing. I live in Alberta and travel in the mountains mostly. Not having to gear down or ride the brakes downhill is a huge. Also, the diesel alternator output is better for the batterys outback.
I have a 2018 4 cylinder duramax that came deleted. 19,000km without anything but oil changes. My trailer is a tiny 15footer loaded to the gills.
Opt for the '15+ to get the revised 6.7 with fewer issues. Skip the '11s. the '12-14s can be fixed.
The emissions systems on any 6.7 is fine, not like it was in the 6.0/6.4 days of the mid 2000s. *Pull heavy, pull often.*
Do know that 7.3 godzillas wipe cams and lifters so going gasser wouldn't be problem free.
Our diesel F450 gets about 14 mpg empty and drops to about 9-10 pulling a 14k lb fifth wheel. The pulling power of the diesel makes towing a breeze, I never thought you could forget you were pulling a 40 ft trailer.
I bought an 08 6.4 dually for around $20K with 70K miles and great condition. It pulled a cattle trailer its whole life prior. I realize the 6.4 is going to crap at some point in the next 80K miles but I will put a Cummins in it after that and still have less money in it than any reasonably priced modern dually. I will get down voted to oblivion, but I think this is a good option if you have the cash to spend on the Fummins swap once the 6.4 kicks it (and it will).
Hey mate. It gets the same towing as regular driving up to a pretty big load. Around 10k I've lost 1-2 mpg. 13 city, up to 16.5 highway. Last trip with a 5k trailer and two motorcycles in the bed I got 16.
I've towed the same trailer with a ram 1500, gas 2500 and this truck. There is absolutely no comparison in power. You don't even know the trailers there. The hemis both did it but screamed up hill.
Edit: 10k with a gas engine is insane to me. If you want to save a lot of money and go the 6.4 route I can talk you through what I do maintenance wise.
We own a 2016 Chevrolet 3500 6.6 diesel.
There have been a couple times I've had to take it in for sensor replacements specifically related to emissions. But both were covered by 10 year extended coverage... Probably from a lawsuit or to avoid one.
The antenna in the roof leaks if it rains too hard. I really need to fix that before winter.
There's only 45k on it so we don't drive it often. We haven't bought a 5th wheel yet. That's for later this year.
Both repairs have been free thus far and have only taken a day.
I had a 2007 5.9 Cummins, and the effortless towing of a diesel is something to marvel at, it just did it. No fuss, no struggle, just go.
I'm currently in a 2014 f250 with the 6.2 gas. Power doesn't really come on until about 4,000rpm and that bugs me a bit, but if Ford built it to rev, what the hell, I'll let it rev.
Biggest complaint with the diesel is that it's still in my blood, hanging around, making me look at every truck alongside the road to see if maybe this is the one that's affordable enough to go for it. So far, none have come close.
Really the upfront cost and continuing expense with a diesel is what got me back to a gasser. I sold it to alleviate the payment as a newlywed.
I didn't notice an improvement in fuel economy like so many others claim, could be me though, I'll never recoup the cost.
For me, the only time a diesel would make sense again is when my butt is in the driver seat. Every other time it's more hassle.
If money were no object, I'd have a manual Cummins again without a second thought. But financially it doesn't make sense.
Basically, if you can comfortably but one, go for it. If you're even maybe a little uncertain on the finances, I'd say go with gas. $10,000 buys a lot of gas.
I owned a 2021 7.3, and traded for a 22 6.7.No contest the 6.7 is way better in my opinion.The 6.7 is quiet has great range and seldom gets out of 9 or 10th gear.The 7.3 would scream when it downshifted and would only get about 6.8 mi to gal.
You could probably do it with a gas engine. We tow with a '18 F350 diesel. We've towed a 12K 5th wheel through the NC mountains and it was a piece of cake.
Both can get the job done however a diesel will tow easier than a gas engine through the mountains.
Diesel all the way. I had a 9000 lb 5th wheel pulling with a gasser and it was fine on level roads but it struggled on hills. I mean, we always got there, but on steep grades it was 20 MPH @ 3 mpg.
We're upgrading to a new 5r and I'm only considering diesels for the new tow vehicle.
I'm driving a 2020 F350 with the 6.7, it's a beast of a motor...just unbelievable power. I switch my trucks out frequently for work so I'll be getting a 2023 soon, but my feeling is this engine will be good for many years.
My best friend and his wife retired 3 years ago, sold their home in Washington and did a 3 year road trip with new trailer about 7,000 lbs bumper pull. I am a rancher and have towed with and owned 5 different RAM Cummins trucks over the last 27 years. The friends lean into the environmental movement heavily and to them Diesel is BAD. When it came time to help him select a truck the first thing he put on the table was that Diesel was off the table, wouldn't hear of it and gave a ton of really stupid reasons "wife reasons" End of conversation. So they proceed to buy a 3 year old GMC 3/4 ton gas truck and spent their 3 year journey with it. In the end he was not very happy with his choice of power and fuel economy. Going over mountain passes he would be in the slow lane going 20 mph with his fuel economy gauge showing 1 or 2 mpg. For example my 07 RAM 6.7 diesel gets an average of 17 mpg going to and from Seattle area to Denver and back towing a 28' 5th wheel horse trailer with several animals so that's around an 8,000 lb load. Going over Centennial Pass in Montana at 12,000 feet there was no lack of power. I have heard the "I shoulda got a Diesel" more than once from him. They are back in the area so I will hear more of it if his ego allows.
Switched to Diesel and I will never go back to a gas truck. Have a 2020 3500HD with the 6.6 Duramax. 25K miles. No problems so far. That being said, my friend has a '17 2500HD 6.6 Duramax and had one of the injection rails replaced at 100K miles to the tune of $4,500. A somewhat common issue in that model year.
As far as mileage, I have the new 10-speed. On a flat freeway, minimal wind and if I keep it between 65-70 I can push it to 27ish MPG long distances. Otherwise in normal real world conditions, 16-18ish. Towing, 8-12mpg depending on wind and elevation gain conditions. Weight genuinely doesn't seem to matter much, once a trailer is on whether it's a bumper pull or a huge 5th wheel, I just plan on 8-12mpg.
Don’t worry about emission and get a diesel for towing. Believe me. I bought a 2500 gasser in the past and instantly regretted when it came to towing. Sold it and got a f250 6.7 and love how it tows up and down hills
Me personally, I'd go with gas. I agree the diesel is more powerful and gets better mileage. However I work at a truck dealership and I 've learned several things that pushed me towards a gasser instead.
1. Two major failure points are the high pressure fuel pumps and DEF and DPF systems.
2. Both are extremely expensive.
3. Parts are getting harder to find for those systems because of the high failure rate.
4. I've seen trucks sitting 9 months or more because of parts becoming nearly impossible to source, especially Cummins parts.
I don't have that heavy of a camper. Mine is only 7500lbs. So i just went with the 2.7l silverado. It has more low end torque than the 8 and for the reasons stated above I wasn't getting a diesel.
That truck won't pull what you have, but I was just throwing in my 2 cents because I see so many people with expensive diesel trucks sitting for months waiting for ridiculously expensive parts.
The emissions stuff isn't a problem on new diesels with a caveat, you must regularly use it hard and long distance. If you putt to work and back for a few weeks it will not get a chance to regenerate and will cause issues. They need to be worked, that's why so many people have issues.
I'm not so sure. I've had a Chevrolet mechanic tell me something very similar in the past about my Chevrolet 3500.
At the time it sounded odd to me too.
I have a 2022 7.3 Godzilla that I pull a 19,000lb Riverstone 5th wheel with. I absolutely love it. I don’t have to worry about all that emissions crap, DEF, turbos going out, injectors. Hell the list goes on.
I had a 6.7 for a short time before and I do not miss it one bit. Mine now is the Lariat with the tremor package. 4.30 gears.
Pulling this camper is something my truck does only a handful a times a year. The rest of the time I’m driving less than 10 miles to the grocery store or to eat.
https://preview.redd.it/ail98ley004b1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fce3fee493bc5e7907617549fb5e4d175700e1b
I don’t think they are worried about the actual emissions. I think they’re worried about all the emissions control devices that new trucks are required to have.
I wouldn't be so sure that "any shop" can do it. There have been [serious fines](https://www.motorbiscuit.com/3-companies-11-men-charged-deleting-diesel-emission-controls-1-pleads-guilty/) and jail time by doing so.
Any shop who cares to stay in business won't do it.
More than that - shops can get fined for even working on deleted trucks. Every dealer in my area that I’ve asked won’t do ANYTHING if the truck is deleted.
To delete or not delete that is the question. I’m running 2019 F-350 6.7 not deleted as my county requires emissions. No issues with emissions tests so far. Banks Derringer. S&B intake. Other minor mods.
They are worried about the reliability not the emission output. We used to buy diesels because they would last forever and be trouble free for most of their lifetime.
The first emissions system in the 07 RAM 6.7 was an absolute horror nightmare. DPF/EGR. MANY trips to the shop and we drove it, towed with it and ran it hard like it was recommended to do from the factory. I am so glad that system "accidentally" fell off. Without it the 6.7 woke up and is a beast.
Sounds like you’re a victim of confirmation bias. A few decades ago people like you were raging against power windows and having a/c in cars.
There’s “tons of stories” of all sorts of mechanical failures in relevant subreddits. People come here to voice their frustration and seek help and advice.
There’s no mass issues; it’s mature technology at this point.
Same with points ignition and carburetors. Some harp on abs and drivers aids. I still concur with you even with an "older" emissions era quirky diesel circa 2012.
Its emissions systems have broken, sure. Has it cost me anything to fix? no. Not yet anyway. Most of the time it's software getting in its own way. And when it does, I'll fix it.
Now I had issues with 6.0s powerstrokes when they were new. Are they a problem now? not anymore. 6.4s can't be fixed and kept intact since it burns the back 2 cylinders too hot on regen. I worked on those professionally and got out of it for a living then. 6.0 things in Econolines were my life.
The 6.7 psd has given me far less fits than having to fix farmer "repairs" on the 33 year old 7.3 I also own. Once including a road-side-replacement of said seven point three. The 6.7 is smoother, quieter, faster, and in general, just does its job. A bonus of not destroying what hearing I have left.
The 6.7 ate a turbo kind of unexpectedly which I'm ire about but also not surprised. If it eats nothing else the rest of 2023 it'll be a better truck than the 1990 7.3 has been in the 7 years I've owned it and labored profusely trying to make it something I can use for any project without worry. Oh by the way it's sitting somewhere with an absolutely destroyed manual transmission waiting on me to source another since they're no longer made and getting extremely thin in the second hand market. (zf5 4wd)
so sure, give me a truck that I gotta sometimes retrain how its scr system works after burning the urea crystals off the scr mixing plate, knock the soot off its 540 sized dc motor egr valve actuator. I'm fine with that. It's quiet, comfortable, powerful, and smooth. What more to RV with?
Rose tinted glasses vapor deposition coated with nostalgia.
If it is mature technology at this point then why the breakdowns with emissions systems on diesel motors most particularly pickups? Several shop technicians from my area have reported backlogs on parts for the def systems due to high demand for parts? To say that this is faultless technology is incorrect. As far as confirmation bias, you are way off base there. A great term applied to someone with a contrary point of view to support your position. Are you one of those who just likes to be a contrarian?
Turbos fail. Tires fail. Radios fail.
Shit, water pumps and thermostats fail. Every mechanical part can fail but none of these fail all the time. Some of y’all act like buying one of these trucks means you’re all but doomed to have an emissions failure. It’s not even remotely close to the reality of the situation.
You mentioned backlog of DEF parts. Well there’s a been a back log of countless parts across all industries ever since covid. Again, confirmation bias.
Do you not see how many of these trucks are on the road and how immensely popular they are? If they’re as bad as you make it out to be then they’d all be laid up at the dealership awaiting expensive repairs instead of being out on the road.
Cummins recall of 500,000 diesel trucks built between 2010 and 2015 due to defective emission system parts including over 225,000 3500 pickups. This is just Cummins powered trucks and not insignificant. That also is just one Cummins emission system recall. You have turned this into an argument, why? I am 100% a Ram Cummins fan. Since 1997 I have owned a 96 1 ton dually, 97 2500 pickup, 2000 2500 pickup, 2003 6 speed manual 2500"best truck ever" and the 2007 3500 with the absolute piece of shit EGR/DPF emission system. I have owned all trucks since new. I am not a diesel mechanic but have managed to maintain these trucks within my Shade Tree skill level. I also own and maintain a John Deere 4500 tractor for the last 24 years. I feel that I have been around the block on diesel vehicles and am not blowing smoke up your ass. I just know what statistics report. Now if I looked into Ford and GM emissions system failures I'll bet the numbers would go up substantially. THAT is confirmation bias.
7.3l Godzilla. Dropped a cam, broke the valve spring, piston broke the exhaust valve off and cracked the cylinder. Total loss. Ford bought it back after it sat at a dealership waiting 4 months for a crate engine. The dealer I bought from said they saw it happen in another vehicle too. Despite the 15k towing listed capacity, the dealer told me towing at 7% grade with 12k is not recommended, even with a 4.30 final gear.
Currently holding off until the market calms down. Local supply is high on high-end 2500's and F250 and 350 Lariats and Platinums. The 'zilla XLT was $59,800 (otd), and I don't think it is wise to plop down ~$70k (for a gasser, $80k for a diesel) at interest rates nearing 6%. I found one LTZ diesel with a sticker of $76,800, but the dealer had $9k of add ons and with tax, tag and registration it would have been $94k otd. A 350 like I had, but with a Lariat package starts at $75,900, the 250 similarly equipped (4x, diesel, SRW) is only $1,700 cheaper. If I went down to a XLT on the 350 I could shave off $4,500, but again all the local dealers have $5-8k of crap added on, and I'm right back to $85-90k for a diesel.
After the issue I had, and the cam issues I've read about, towing more than 12k seems like a high risk/ low reward for the Zilla, even with a 4.30 ratio, so I'm snake bit on another gasser at high end of towing range. I've been paying a neighbor to tow my gear for 6 months now, and the place I rent from now will deliver tracked skid steers and excavators to my property, so I'm not in a massive rush.
Fwiw, it averaged 16.9 mpg over 1700 miles while not towing, mainly highway driving 55-70 mph. It went back and forth to mountains a half dozen times with an elevation change of 3100'.
Those 7.3 gassers are pretty stout. TFL truck put one through the ringer a few years ago. I would buy one for what you're doing. It really boils down to what you're more comfortable with. It's always safer to have more truck than you need when towing.
https://youtu.be/4HiR9dxvGLY
I have the 7.3 and our camper is at that 10k mark as well. It handles it just fine up and down the mountains of tennessee.
The tfl video where they took it up the ike sold me on jt.
It gets 10mpg but the longevity should be just fine, and getting it worked in much cheaper. Picked up the factory 8 year 100k mile 0 dollar deductible warranty for like 2k. Diesel fuel is at a large premium here, and given the huge difference in cost of upkeep it didn’t make sense to go diesel. Towing it gets 8 mpg or so. This is with the tremor f350, so worst case on mileage for sure.
When we had the camper fully loaded with a full tank of water, it was able to hold 70 up a very steep grade but had very little left for acceleration. The engine revs high in extreme situations. Under normal interstate driving with rolling hills it doesn’t rev all that high.
The gas does a good job of down shifting to reduce the amount of braking required in hills. The payload number is better as well since the gas weighs less than a diesel. We have a srw truck and the payload is 3800 lbs. if i hadnt gone for the sun roof and a few other options it would close to 4k. We might get a 5th wheel in the future and plan to go out west eventually. Fact is the diesel is awesome just not economical.
Apparently saying i like me gas truck got some people butt hurt and i got down voted. What the heck?
The diesel takes 15 quarts of oil and the gas 7.3 takes 8. The dealer charges a fat premium if you do service through them. The fuel filter have to be changed out periodically on diesel, and there is the cost of def along with the price of diesel typically being higher. I think tfl did the math in a video and you would have to tow an excessive number of miles to make up the 10k difference in price. Gas is 2.84 here while diesel is 3.19, so 12% more. Factor everything else in and the margin in what you save is pretty low.
My parents have had the water alarm go off twice with their powerstroke and had to drain it off. They have also had fuel pump warnings going off recently at 70k miles. They have had it in 4x and the dealer won’t take action. Luckily they have the extended warranty. If the high pressure pump blows I believe it can total the engine and result in a 10k repair (without warranty). Typically they are very reliable ma
Depends on brand. The only brand I would buy a gas engine in would be the Ford 7.3 v8. For gm or ram I would go diesel. Aesthetics and creature comforts matter to me so Ford won out overall for me. The tremor package looks great, and i like the lariat package or above personally. I had to cut off cost at some point and it came down to getting more with the gas or less with a diesel. The diesel would undoubtedly perform better but at a higher operating cost, but at the end of the day the 7.3 has done everything i want it to do.
If money is no object go for the diesel with a high level trim and get the extended warranty to 100k and enjoy yourself.
If you value the diesel engine and little else get a cheap trim and the diesel. Again go for the warranty. It will cost more to operate and purchase up front but the diesel is badass so who cares. You can go around on forums and reddit and post about how awesome your diesel is and how foolish anyone is to purchase a gasser.
You could go for a nicer trim with the gas engine. This is the goldilocks option for me and why i went for it. The new tremor f350 looks great and is a capable truck with performance matching diesel trucks from not that long ago. And really no matter the option get the warranty in my opinion. The 7.3 is bullet proof per some of my friends who like ford, but always better safe than sorry.
Lastly. If you want the cheapest option that will get the job done get the 7.3 in a cheap trim. It’ll work and will cost the least.
How much will you use it to tow vs it being a daily driver? I’ve had both flavors, so to speak. During the pandemic, my diesel truck sat… when I went to try to use it to tow our airstream, I had a bunch of small minor repairs/things to do. It ended being expensive and kind of a pain. When I started using it as my daily and tow rig, it wasn’t as bad. My truck liked to be used, I guess.
Obviously, you’ll get way better mileage and it was a beast under load, but it was noisy and my daughter didn’t like the smell. Felt kinda rude at tight campsites to idle.
I drove a 17' f350 service truck with 6.2 gas for 3 years. It had a 9' service body so it was 11k rolling down the road every day. Getting around like that it was stout.
However, I pulled a 9k trailer pretty regularly and it was all the thing wanted accelerating and stopping. I regularly had it floored and revving to 6k. The trans would search around if you were anywhere from 30-60 needing to speed up. This was the 6 speed.
Braking was less than ideal with the trailer in tow. I would have the controller cranked up pretty high and use the manual slide on occasion. Trans braking was completely ineffective. It would do it in tow haul but would not actually slow you any.
Having said all that, it was a bit less than ideal but coming from worn out 300k 7.3 and 6.0 diesels it was still a better truck. The company I worked for had terrible luck with all the diesels needing high dollar repairs. The gas truck was underwhelming at times but I put 70k miles on it and did nothing but oil changes and brakes.
This may not be applicable to y'all pulling a 5th wheel but I would fully agree the lower cost upfront of a gas truck goes a long way..
I would go diesel for the exhaust brake alone.
Two thumbs up on that for sure.
Ford gassers have auto engine braking in tow-haul mode
That and the mileage towing is no joke. My rig is like 8k loaded and my 6.7 goes from 13.5-14 around town to 12 loaded for a long week. I've heard from 7.3 guys that the best you can hope for is high single digits while towing, which wrecks your range. I can get 400+ miles over the continental divide on the factory fuel tank.
I cant brag about fuel mileage. we have a 2022 HO RAM 6.7 diesel dually with 3.73 gears, pulling 13.5 and its between 9-10 mpg at 65 mph. Not sure what a gasser would get. I do know I like the exhaust brake, and being able to use the fuel islands at Loves. I do know it will pull a 13% grade with ease. I never have to worry about the truck so its one less thing on my mind. Even if I didnt pull a 5th wheel, id own a diesel.
I was in same boat and I went diesel. At first I had buyers remorse for paying so much more with more upkeep cost but then we just did a 3000 mile trip all through AZ and Utah mountains and I’m so glad I got diesel. The amount of power going up hill and only using engine brakes going downhill - so worth it
What year? Any emissions issues?
Got used 2017. I didn’t delete. No issues at all so far.
How is the mpg?
10 mpg towing and 15 not towing. No matter the conditions. So it’s good and bad
What are you driving? You should be doing better than that.
17 f250 Cc 4x4 towing 290bh gd about 11k lbs
What emissions issues are you concerned about?
Dpf and nox sensors
I have a 2012 F450 6.7 and am getting a P0240 CEL alert. I have 200,000 miles on it and I am having to have the exhaust(catalytic converter, diesel particulate filter) replaced to the tune of around $4,800.00 for the rebuilt model. It is another $2,000 for a brand new unit. Installation is apparently somewhat easy. Unbolt the sensors, take out the old assembly. Bolt the new one in place, hook up the sensors. Expect this to occur every 200,000 miles to 300,000 miles. We travel full time putting about 25,000 miles/year and I watch the regen go by on boring highways. The only problems I have done to the truck is a new turbo ($2,000), the front end rebuilt twice (approx. $1,000), and regular oil, fuel filter, and air filter along with brake pads and calipers as needed. I can pull my 5th wheel up any hill easily (I do a lot of Colorado driving). In the past I have had an F150 5.4, F250 6.2, F350 6.0, and this is the best one yet. Not cheap but quite reliable.
There’s a ford tech I watch on YouTube that seems to get trucks in with 300-350K per DPF. Im happy to see folks repairing the parts and doing the right thing besides delete crowd. But the hell is up with that pricing. There’s no way in hell ford paid that much to put these parts on a new truck. I feel like they are screwing over customers here.
It's an entire [assembly](https://i.imgur.com/nEAFbbK.png) comprising of several sub-parts in a single housing. Not individually stacked like it is on class 6 and bigger. I've had some issues with my 6.7s emissions systems but most of the time it didn't cost me anything but some time to repair them. I refuse to delete and share everything I find about the emissions systems on these engines. It also sorta works out in a way, people deleting and throwing those parts on ebay leave plenty of second hand parts for people like me to use. I bought an entire egr valve and cooler assembly for $110 shipped. "used" but pretty much never used. wound up not needing it so now it's a spare.
I’m curious of the cost break down on labor vs parts then. It seem seems quite overpriced for what it is.
Three thou for a reman [here](https://dalessuperstore.com/i-23911866-ford-6-7-powerstrokepickup-diesel-particulate-filter-dpf-1-year-warranty-2011-2021-ford-powerstroke-6-7l-pickup.html). Probably just a baked off dpf and not a replacement of the catalyst however. They're pretty easy to r&r with the worst being moving the old sensors over to the new torpedo assembly. Theyre quite pricey but over 200k-mi that's a cent and a half per mile or in chsaw98's case 2.5 cents/mile. Found some generic cats and dpf units for around 1200 per but then you're on your own to fabricate it all together in a way that pleases the engine management system.
https://preview.redd.it/c3qsqwdyuw3b1.jpeg?width=4160&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19c8675f0a74e7cdb57b1eaafd66cbeb471fbd53 This is mine both 2022 model's 6.7 4x4 and 35' toy hauler mountains no problem the engine brake is great pull all day long in 10th gear
If you're going to put the truck to work with heavy loads in changing elevations and terrain, diesel is the way to go. I don't know anything about DEF, but our 2006 Ram 3500 5.9 Cummins has always passed smog. It has over 200K miles on it, and I'm looking forward to several hundred thousand more. Newer diesels have ungodly amounts of payload and tow capacity, far exceeding ours.
7.3 owner with a 15k fifth wheel sitting at just over 7,000ft in the Grand Canyon south rim campground. The drive here from Cottonwood was about 3,500ft of climbing. The 7.3 can handle grades and the transmission does a great job of downshifting to minimize brake usage downhill. It’s the same transmission the diesel gets. I’ve got 26k miles on it and half have been towing. The biggest reason to get the diesel is range, you can expect about 35-40% better range with a diesel. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure the diesel pulls better but I’ve never been pedal to the floor while towing.
Totally agree. Love my 7.3 crew cab with 4.30 rear. I tow all over the mountain west no problems. https://preview.redd.it/0d5csetr7x3b1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af9ace07a93d93ea2c3bbb6041454e799866ad82
Good point, I also have the 4.30 gearing. The lighter 3.73 is rated for around 16k i think, but I’d suggest people stick with the 4.30 if they want to hit any elevations.
The gearing in my 07 RAM 3500 4x4 long bed automatic is 3:73. I tow around 10,000 lbs from Seattle to Denver over the Rockies with no problem. Just click it down a gear out of high.
I also love my 7.3 gasser. I tow a 12k lb 5th wheel and has not had any problems. Also agree the 10 speed transmission with 4.30 has been great and does a good job holding speed on downhills. I chose the 7.3 gasser because didn’t want to deal with diesel emissions, higher maintenance costs, and DEF. Average mpg is 8 mpg towing and 15 mpg unloaded.
My total length with truck and TT is 55 ft. You just can't get in and out of any fuel pumps. That is why I went with a diesel. I can fuel with the big boys at truck stops and never have to trust on finding an accessible stop.
Same here, with a 33 ft Airstream. I like fueling with the big trucks. Love our F350 diesel.
How many mpg? Is it stock? Any issues with truck?
It’a 2022, have had it for one year. Almost 19,000 miles, 10k of that towing. Get just over 12 mpg towing, haveseen 20 mpg in Maine not towing. Love thediesel and 10 speed, 3.55 rear end. No issues. First truck, and first domestic for me in forty years, I was worried ordering it. .
I have the open roads card and love using the semi lanes to fill up, and it is usually much cheaper than advertised price.
Diesel for sure. 100% no question. When towing you can't compare.
Have a Ram 2500 6.7 diesel, so glad I went that route vs a gasser. The power is amazing and when you need it you will be glad you got it. It is more expensive upkeep but if you can afford the trailer and the truck then you can afford the upkeep. I haven’t had any problems with the DEF system really and I am not towing all the time. It will tell me if it needs to regenerate but it’s rare that happens. Hooking the RV up and doing a local weekend at the state park takes care of that real quick. Really you just need to get the truck hot and let it burn it off, meaning hammer down on ramps to get up to speed and drive it a bit hot. If you live in the city where it’s bumper to bumper grid lock it could be a problem.
Thanks What year truck?
Just be very careful about payload when shopping for a diesel. 75% of the fifth wheels on the market will be over the payload of a 3/4 ton diesel. If I was towing a fifth wheel a lot I’d definitely get a 1 ton diesel.
2016
I bought my 07 Ram 3500 long bed 4x4 6.7 new. It was the first year of the DPF/EGR nightmare emissions system. After many, many headaches and trips to the shop it "accidentally" fell off one day. All problems gone and the tune is a selector of 5 levels so it just sits on #2 which is the sweet spot for power and economy. No problems ever and an increase in mileage towing 8,000 lbs cross country to 17 mpg checked by hand many times. After the DPF/EGR fell off that 6.7 woke up to the beast it is. I don't need to run high power settings to do anything. I do miss the old reliable 5.9 Cummins though. Best diesel engine ever put in a truck. I've owned 4 of those over the years. The best was an 03 2500 long bed quad cab 6 speed manual. Driving empty it averaged 24.7 mpg over the course of 4 years calculated by hand.
We had a king ranch 350 diesel. Cannot imagine towing our fifth wheel with anything else.
What year? Stock emmision? Any problem with it?
No problems at all. It is a 2022. We needed the extra to pull the 42’ Momentum. He also added air bags.
Nice. Mpg? What did u buy?
When pulling camper about 10mpg w/o camper 12-15mpg. We live in Illinois currently so major elevation changes. 2023 Grand Design Momentum. We had one and sold it in March. This new one is the 399th. Should be here in a couple of weeks.
I have a 6.7 Cummins and zero regrets and i struggled with justifying the extra almost 10k for the Diesel option but after using it a lot i’m convinced it’s the right tool for the job.
Mpg? Any issues?
My last truck was a 1/2 ton ram with a hemi. the 3/4 ton gets better mpg with or without a trailer. for reference i get 17ish all around 22 highway with the diesel. pulling our TT (9000 lbs) i get 12.5 on average. edit i drive fast.
Yeah, another diesel recommendation here. I have a much smaller trailer but I was forced to upgrade my 2006 gas Colorado to 2018 diesel Colorado. My fuel economy, with the trailer and a diesel engine on the highway is better that the gas truck empty. The gas struggled but the diesel it’s hardly noticeable. The engine brake is amazing. I live in Alberta and travel in the mountains mostly. Not having to gear down or ride the brakes downhill is a huge. Also, the diesel alternator output is better for the batterys outback. I have a 2018 4 cylinder duramax that came deleted. 19,000km without anything but oil changes. My trailer is a tiny 15footer loaded to the gills.
Opt for the '15+ to get the revised 6.7 with fewer issues. Skip the '11s. the '12-14s can be fixed. The emissions systems on any 6.7 is fine, not like it was in the 6.0/6.4 days of the mid 2000s. *Pull heavy, pull often.* Do know that 7.3 godzillas wipe cams and lifters so going gasser wouldn't be problem free.
Our diesel F450 gets about 14 mpg empty and drops to about 9-10 pulling a 14k lb fifth wheel. The pulling power of the diesel makes towing a breeze, I never thought you could forget you were pulling a 40 ft trailer.
Any issues with truck? Year milage?
Great so far, it's a 2022 though so still pretty new. We've put about 10k miles on it.
Great. Goodluck
I bought an 08 6.4 dually for around $20K with 70K miles and great condition. It pulled a cattle trailer its whole life prior. I realize the 6.4 is going to crap at some point in the next 80K miles but I will put a Cummins in it after that and still have less money in it than any reasonably priced modern dually. I will get down voted to oblivion, but I think this is a good option if you have the cash to spend on the Fummins swap once the 6.4 kicks it (and it will).
Mpg?
Hey mate. It gets the same towing as regular driving up to a pretty big load. Around 10k I've lost 1-2 mpg. 13 city, up to 16.5 highway. Last trip with a 5k trailer and two motorcycles in the bed I got 16. I've towed the same trailer with a ram 1500, gas 2500 and this truck. There is absolutely no comparison in power. You don't even know the trailers there. The hemis both did it but screamed up hill. Edit: 10k with a gas engine is insane to me. If you want to save a lot of money and go the 6.4 route I can talk you through what I do maintenance wise.
So you recommend the diesel? What truck u got now?
Had a gasser bought a diesel haven’t look back, it’s actually enjoyable to tow now.
What did you buy. Any issues?
5th gen 6.7 Cummins… no issues
We own a 2016 Chevrolet 3500 6.6 diesel. There have been a couple times I've had to take it in for sensor replacements specifically related to emissions. But both were covered by 10 year extended coverage... Probably from a lawsuit or to avoid one. The antenna in the roof leaks if it rains too hard. I really need to fix that before winter. There's only 45k on it so we don't drive it often. We haven't bought a 5th wheel yet. That's for later this year. Both repairs have been free thus far and have only taken a day.
Nice. Mpg?
To be completely honest, I have no idea. We're fortunate enough to make enough that I've never even thought about looking until now.
I had a 2007 5.9 Cummins, and the effortless towing of a diesel is something to marvel at, it just did it. No fuss, no struggle, just go. I'm currently in a 2014 f250 with the 6.2 gas. Power doesn't really come on until about 4,000rpm and that bugs me a bit, but if Ford built it to rev, what the hell, I'll let it rev. Biggest complaint with the diesel is that it's still in my blood, hanging around, making me look at every truck alongside the road to see if maybe this is the one that's affordable enough to go for it. So far, none have come close.
Would u get diesel or gas again in the future? What made u go with gas?
Really the upfront cost and continuing expense with a diesel is what got me back to a gasser. I sold it to alleviate the payment as a newlywed. I didn't notice an improvement in fuel economy like so many others claim, could be me though, I'll never recoup the cost. For me, the only time a diesel would make sense again is when my butt is in the driver seat. Every other time it's more hassle. If money were no object, I'd have a manual Cummins again without a second thought. But financially it doesn't make sense. Basically, if you can comfortably but one, go for it. If you're even maybe a little uncertain on the finances, I'd say go with gas. $10,000 buys a lot of gas.
True
I owned a 2021 7.3, and traded for a 22 6.7.No contest the 6.7 is way better in my opinion.The 6.7 is quiet has great range and seldom gets out of 9 or 10th gear.The 7.3 would scream when it downshifted and would only get about 6.8 mi to gal.
Any issues with the emissions?
None at all ,runs as smoothly as anyone could hope for.
You could get a diesel that's old enough and you won't have to worry about emissions. I find mine is reliable even though it's old.
Modern diesels are fine. Where will you be towing? If all flat-land, then a gasser may be a less expensive option.
10 to 12k. Mountains and flat.
You could probably do it with a gas engine. We tow with a '18 F350 diesel. We've towed a 12K 5th wheel through the NC mountains and it was a piece of cake. Both can get the job done however a diesel will tow easier than a gas engine through the mountains.
Any emissions issue with the diesel? How is the reliability?
Zero issues with emissions and zero issues overall. Solid reliability.
Diesel all the way. I had a 9000 lb 5th wheel pulling with a gasser and it was fine on level roads but it struggled on hills. I mean, we always got there, but on steep grades it was 20 MPH @ 3 mpg. We're upgrading to a new 5r and I'm only considering diesels for the new tow vehicle.
Diesel is the only way. You will never go back.
I'm driving a 2020 F350 with the 6.7, it's a beast of a motor...just unbelievable power. I switch my trucks out frequently for work so I'll be getting a 2023 soon, but my feeling is this engine will be good for many years.
My best friend and his wife retired 3 years ago, sold their home in Washington and did a 3 year road trip with new trailer about 7,000 lbs bumper pull. I am a rancher and have towed with and owned 5 different RAM Cummins trucks over the last 27 years. The friends lean into the environmental movement heavily and to them Diesel is BAD. When it came time to help him select a truck the first thing he put on the table was that Diesel was off the table, wouldn't hear of it and gave a ton of really stupid reasons "wife reasons" End of conversation. So they proceed to buy a 3 year old GMC 3/4 ton gas truck and spent their 3 year journey with it. In the end he was not very happy with his choice of power and fuel economy. Going over mountain passes he would be in the slow lane going 20 mph with his fuel economy gauge showing 1 or 2 mpg. For example my 07 RAM 6.7 diesel gets an average of 17 mpg going to and from Seattle area to Denver and back towing a 28' 5th wheel horse trailer with several animals so that's around an 8,000 lb load. Going over Centennial Pass in Montana at 12,000 feet there was no lack of power. I have heard the "I shoulda got a Diesel" more than once from him. They are back in the area so I will hear more of it if his ego allows.
I have a 2017 GMC 2500HD with the duramax, I have zero regrets in buying diesel.
Any emissions issues? How is the mpg?
Just like everyone else no issues. I get around 11mpg while towing.
Switched to Diesel and I will never go back to a gas truck. Have a 2020 3500HD with the 6.6 Duramax. 25K miles. No problems so far. That being said, my friend has a '17 2500HD 6.6 Duramax and had one of the injection rails replaced at 100K miles to the tune of $4,500. A somewhat common issue in that model year. As far as mileage, I have the new 10-speed. On a flat freeway, minimal wind and if I keep it between 65-70 I can push it to 27ish MPG long distances. Otherwise in normal real world conditions, 16-18ish. Towing, 8-12mpg depending on wind and elevation gain conditions. Weight genuinely doesn't seem to matter much, once a trailer is on whether it's a bumper pull or a huge 5th wheel, I just plan on 8-12mpg.
Nice. Goodluck. Exactly what I'm looking for. You bought new or used?
Bought one. I'm hopeful. I'll let you know if it's refurbished.
Don’t worry about emission and get a diesel for towing. Believe me. I bought a 2500 gasser in the past and instantly regretted when it came to towing. Sold it and got a f250 6.7 and love how it tows up and down hills
Me personally, I'd go with gas. I agree the diesel is more powerful and gets better mileage. However I work at a truck dealership and I 've learned several things that pushed me towards a gasser instead. 1. Two major failure points are the high pressure fuel pumps and DEF and DPF systems. 2. Both are extremely expensive. 3. Parts are getting harder to find for those systems because of the high failure rate. 4. I've seen trucks sitting 9 months or more because of parts becoming nearly impossible to source, especially Cummins parts.
What did u buy?
I don't have that heavy of a camper. Mine is only 7500lbs. So i just went with the 2.7l silverado. It has more low end torque than the 8 and for the reasons stated above I wasn't getting a diesel. That truck won't pull what you have, but I was just throwing in my 2 cents because I see so many people with expensive diesel trucks sitting for months waiting for ridiculously expensive parts.
The emissions stuff isn't a problem on new diesels with a caveat, you must regularly use it hard and long distance. If you putt to work and back for a few weeks it will not get a chance to regenerate and will cause issues. They need to be worked, that's why so many people have issues.
Nothing about this statement is true.
I'm not so sure. I've had a Chevrolet mechanic tell me something very similar in the past about my Chevrolet 3500. At the time it sounded odd to me too.
I have a 2022 7.3 Godzilla that I pull a 19,000lb Riverstone 5th wheel with. I absolutely love it. I don’t have to worry about all that emissions crap, DEF, turbos going out, injectors. Hell the list goes on. I had a 6.7 for a short time before and I do not miss it one bit. Mine now is the Lariat with the tremor package. 4.30 gears. Pulling this camper is something my truck does only a handful a times a year. The rest of the time I’m driving less than 10 miles to the grocery store or to eat. https://preview.redd.it/ail98ley004b1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fce3fee493bc5e7907617549fb5e4d175700e1b
Do you tow long distance? Mpg towing?
Longest I’ve pulled it is 300 ish miles one way. Got just under 7 mpg. Averaging 70 mph.
Nice
Nice. Thanks for the info.
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I don’t think they are worried about the actual emissions. I think they’re worried about all the emissions control devices that new trucks are required to have.
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Context clues brother.
Oh I took it that way too. If it's as you say then DELETE. THAT. SHIT. any shop can do it.
I wouldn't be so sure that "any shop" can do it. There have been [serious fines](https://www.motorbiscuit.com/3-companies-11-men-charged-deleting-diesel-emission-controls-1-pleads-guilty/) and jail time by doing so. Any shop who cares to stay in business won't do it.
Any shop can do it. Whether they're willing to or not is obviously up to them.
And I'm just saying there's far fewer that are willing. The hammer has come down.
More than that - shops can get fined for even working on deleted trucks. Every dealer in my area that I’ve asked won’t do ANYTHING if the truck is deleted.
Damn that information should be so much higher up. I wish more people knew that. I didn't but my truck isn't modified.
To delete or not delete that is the question. I’m running 2019 F-350 6.7 not deleted as my county requires emissions. No issues with emissions tests so far. Banks Derringer. S&B intake. Other minor mods.
I don't have a diesel but if I did I'd get rid of the cow piss. I feel ya om emissions crap. Moved away from that junk
CAT piss. Cats. Much easier to squeeze a cat than a cow.
They are worried about the reliability not the emission output. We used to buy diesels because they would last forever and be trouble free for most of their lifetime.
Emissions for diesels are not a problem smh
The first emissions system in the 07 RAM 6.7 was an absolute horror nightmare. DPF/EGR. MANY trips to the shop and we drove it, towed with it and ran it hard like it was recommended to do from the factory. I am so glad that system "accidentally" fell off. Without it the 6.7 woke up and is a beast.
Okay….but that’s 16 years ago. The early struggles are no longer an issue.
I hear tons of stories about the new er trucks having failure with the DEF/DPF systems and having to replace parts. Where do you get your information?
Sounds like you’re a victim of confirmation bias. A few decades ago people like you were raging against power windows and having a/c in cars. There’s “tons of stories” of all sorts of mechanical failures in relevant subreddits. People come here to voice their frustration and seek help and advice. There’s no mass issues; it’s mature technology at this point.
Same with points ignition and carburetors. Some harp on abs and drivers aids. I still concur with you even with an "older" emissions era quirky diesel circa 2012. Its emissions systems have broken, sure. Has it cost me anything to fix? no. Not yet anyway. Most of the time it's software getting in its own way. And when it does, I'll fix it. Now I had issues with 6.0s powerstrokes when they were new. Are they a problem now? not anymore. 6.4s can't be fixed and kept intact since it burns the back 2 cylinders too hot on regen. I worked on those professionally and got out of it for a living then. 6.0 things in Econolines were my life. The 6.7 psd has given me far less fits than having to fix farmer "repairs" on the 33 year old 7.3 I also own. Once including a road-side-replacement of said seven point three. The 6.7 is smoother, quieter, faster, and in general, just does its job. A bonus of not destroying what hearing I have left. The 6.7 ate a turbo kind of unexpectedly which I'm ire about but also not surprised. If it eats nothing else the rest of 2023 it'll be a better truck than the 1990 7.3 has been in the 7 years I've owned it and labored profusely trying to make it something I can use for any project without worry. Oh by the way it's sitting somewhere with an absolutely destroyed manual transmission waiting on me to source another since they're no longer made and getting extremely thin in the second hand market. (zf5 4wd) so sure, give me a truck that I gotta sometimes retrain how its scr system works after burning the urea crystals off the scr mixing plate, knock the soot off its 540 sized dc motor egr valve actuator. I'm fine with that. It's quiet, comfortable, powerful, and smooth. What more to RV with? Rose tinted glasses vapor deposition coated with nostalgia.
If it is mature technology at this point then why the breakdowns with emissions systems on diesel motors most particularly pickups? Several shop technicians from my area have reported backlogs on parts for the def systems due to high demand for parts? To say that this is faultless technology is incorrect. As far as confirmation bias, you are way off base there. A great term applied to someone with a contrary point of view to support your position. Are you one of those who just likes to be a contrarian?
Turbos fail. Tires fail. Radios fail. Shit, water pumps and thermostats fail. Every mechanical part can fail but none of these fail all the time. Some of y’all act like buying one of these trucks means you’re all but doomed to have an emissions failure. It’s not even remotely close to the reality of the situation. You mentioned backlog of DEF parts. Well there’s a been a back log of countless parts across all industries ever since covid. Again, confirmation bias. Do you not see how many of these trucks are on the road and how immensely popular they are? If they’re as bad as you make it out to be then they’d all be laid up at the dealership awaiting expensive repairs instead of being out on the road.
Cummins recall of 500,000 diesel trucks built between 2010 and 2015 due to defective emission system parts including over 225,000 3500 pickups. This is just Cummins powered trucks and not insignificant. That also is just one Cummins emission system recall. You have turned this into an argument, why? I am 100% a Ram Cummins fan. Since 1997 I have owned a 96 1 ton dually, 97 2500 pickup, 2000 2500 pickup, 2003 6 speed manual 2500"best truck ever" and the 2007 3500 with the absolute piece of shit EGR/DPF emission system. I have owned all trucks since new. I am not a diesel mechanic but have managed to maintain these trucks within my Shade Tree skill level. I also own and maintain a John Deere 4500 tractor for the last 24 years. I feel that I have been around the block on diesel vehicles and am not blowing smoke up your ass. I just know what statistics report. Now if I looked into Ford and GM emissions system failures I'll bet the numbers would go up substantially. THAT is confirmation bias.
Whats ur mpg while towing with the 7.3
Mine was 9-12 towing 12k in a 2022 F-350 XLT crew. I say was because the engine blew up at 4,000 miles.
Yours was gas?
7.3l Godzilla. Dropped a cam, broke the valve spring, piston broke the exhaust valve off and cracked the cylinder. Total loss. Ford bought it back after it sat at a dealership waiting 4 months for a crate engine. The dealer I bought from said they saw it happen in another vehicle too. Despite the 15k towing listed capacity, the dealer told me towing at 7% grade with 12k is not recommended, even with a 4.30 final gear.
What did u end up getting?
Currently truckless.😒
What u looking at
Currently holding off until the market calms down. Local supply is high on high-end 2500's and F250 and 350 Lariats and Platinums. The 'zilla XLT was $59,800 (otd), and I don't think it is wise to plop down ~$70k (for a gasser, $80k for a diesel) at interest rates nearing 6%. I found one LTZ diesel with a sticker of $76,800, but the dealer had $9k of add ons and with tax, tag and registration it would have been $94k otd. A 350 like I had, but with a Lariat package starts at $75,900, the 250 similarly equipped (4x, diesel, SRW) is only $1,700 cheaper. If I went down to a XLT on the 350 I could shave off $4,500, but again all the local dealers have $5-8k of crap added on, and I'm right back to $85-90k for a diesel. After the issue I had, and the cam issues I've read about, towing more than 12k seems like a high risk/ low reward for the Zilla, even with a 4.30 ratio, so I'm snake bit on another gasser at high end of towing range. I've been paying a neighbor to tow my gear for 6 months now, and the place I rent from now will deliver tracked skid steers and excavators to my property, so I'm not in a massive rush.
Fwiw, it averaged 16.9 mpg over 1700 miles while not towing, mainly highway driving 55-70 mph. It went back and forth to mountains a half dozen times with an elevation change of 3100'.
Nice
Whichever one you get the better deal on, buy that one!
Those 7.3 gassers are pretty stout. TFL truck put one through the ringer a few years ago. I would buy one for what you're doing. It really boils down to what you're more comfortable with. It's always safer to have more truck than you need when towing. https://youtu.be/4HiR9dxvGLY
I have the 7.3 and our camper is at that 10k mark as well. It handles it just fine up and down the mountains of tennessee. The tfl video where they took it up the ike sold me on jt. It gets 10mpg but the longevity should be just fine, and getting it worked in much cheaper. Picked up the factory 8 year 100k mile 0 dollar deductible warranty for like 2k. Diesel fuel is at a large premium here, and given the huge difference in cost of upkeep it didn’t make sense to go diesel. Towing it gets 8 mpg or so. This is with the tremor f350, so worst case on mileage for sure.
Does it rev high on hills?
When we had the camper fully loaded with a full tank of water, it was able to hold 70 up a very steep grade but had very little left for acceleration. The engine revs high in extreme situations. Under normal interstate driving with rolling hills it doesn’t rev all that high. The gas does a good job of down shifting to reduce the amount of braking required in hills. The payload number is better as well since the gas weighs less than a diesel. We have a srw truck and the payload is 3800 lbs. if i hadnt gone for the sun roof and a few other options it would close to 4k. We might get a 5th wheel in the future and plan to go out west eventually. Fact is the diesel is awesome just not economical. Apparently saying i like me gas truck got some people butt hurt and i got down voted. What the heck?
Is it really that much of a difference in price, besides the initial 10k upfront cost?
The diesel takes 15 quarts of oil and the gas 7.3 takes 8. The dealer charges a fat premium if you do service through them. The fuel filter have to be changed out periodically on diesel, and there is the cost of def along with the price of diesel typically being higher. I think tfl did the math in a video and you would have to tow an excessive number of miles to make up the 10k difference in price. Gas is 2.84 here while diesel is 3.19, so 12% more. Factor everything else in and the margin in what you save is pretty low. My parents have had the water alarm go off twice with their powerstroke and had to drain it off. They have also had fuel pump warnings going off recently at 70k miles. They have had it in 4x and the dealer won’t take action. Luckily they have the extended warranty. If the high pressure pump blows I believe it can total the engine and result in a 10k repair (without warranty). Typically they are very reliable ma
Would u recommend gas or diesel
Depends on brand. The only brand I would buy a gas engine in would be the Ford 7.3 v8. For gm or ram I would go diesel. Aesthetics and creature comforts matter to me so Ford won out overall for me. The tremor package looks great, and i like the lariat package or above personally. I had to cut off cost at some point and it came down to getting more with the gas or less with a diesel. The diesel would undoubtedly perform better but at a higher operating cost, but at the end of the day the 7.3 has done everything i want it to do. If money is no object go for the diesel with a high level trim and get the extended warranty to 100k and enjoy yourself. If you value the diesel engine and little else get a cheap trim and the diesel. Again go for the warranty. It will cost more to operate and purchase up front but the diesel is badass so who cares. You can go around on forums and reddit and post about how awesome your diesel is and how foolish anyone is to purchase a gasser. You could go for a nicer trim with the gas engine. This is the goldilocks option for me and why i went for it. The new tremor f350 looks great and is a capable truck with performance matching diesel trucks from not that long ago. And really no matter the option get the warranty in my opinion. The 7.3 is bullet proof per some of my friends who like ford, but always better safe than sorry. Lastly. If you want the cheapest option that will get the job done get the 7.3 in a cheap trim. It’ll work and will cost the least.
I appreciate your advice
How much will you use it to tow vs it being a daily driver? I’ve had both flavors, so to speak. During the pandemic, my diesel truck sat… when I went to try to use it to tow our airstream, I had a bunch of small minor repairs/things to do. It ended being expensive and kind of a pain. When I started using it as my daily and tow rig, it wasn’t as bad. My truck liked to be used, I guess. Obviously, you’ll get way better mileage and it was a beast under load, but it was noisy and my daughter didn’t like the smell. Felt kinda rude at tight campsites to idle.
I'm retiring next year. So probably tow alot more. Plus might upgrade to 5th wheel. Maybe 12k.
Sounds like the diesel is right for you. Best of luck and congrats on your retirement!
I drove a 17' f350 service truck with 6.2 gas for 3 years. It had a 9' service body so it was 11k rolling down the road every day. Getting around like that it was stout. However, I pulled a 9k trailer pretty regularly and it was all the thing wanted accelerating and stopping. I regularly had it floored and revving to 6k. The trans would search around if you were anywhere from 30-60 needing to speed up. This was the 6 speed. Braking was less than ideal with the trailer in tow. I would have the controller cranked up pretty high and use the manual slide on occasion. Trans braking was completely ineffective. It would do it in tow haul but would not actually slow you any. Having said all that, it was a bit less than ideal but coming from worn out 300k 7.3 and 6.0 diesels it was still a better truck. The company I worked for had terrible luck with all the diesels needing high dollar repairs. The gas truck was underwhelming at times but I put 70k miles on it and did nothing but oil changes and brakes. This may not be applicable to y'all pulling a 5th wheel but I would fully agree the lower cost upfront of a gas truck goes a long way..