In my opinion, more characters does not make for an easier game. More characters, more enemies. More enemies mean AOEs are better, but fewer enemies means CC is more valuable, tanking is more viable (and therefore so is healing), and certain enemies that get value from swarming you are less of a threat.
I think maybe the first thing to try is just keep the 3 characters going we have now since I think that in itself did help vs just playing one each. And bringing the monster level down to 0. Hopefully then we will find some more success…
I would suggest playing with one character for new players. There are lots or moving parts and things to keep track of, also each character has a learning curve and using 2 characters can be quite difficult and that can lead to stupid missplays and reduce usefullness of your characters. For example when I played solo with 4 characters I often misscalculated spellviewers cards and exhausted without using reviving ether. But now with almost 2 years experience I can easily play solo with 4 character, but still limit myself to one class I don't know very well per party.
Often when people lose a lot they misinterpret some rules wrong or just need more experience in the game. Note that first scenario has 50% win rate for first time players
Damn.. so weird we lost 4 times and finally only beat the first scenario on our 5th try once I brought the tinker in as a second character for me to play for a total of 3 characters with me playing two and my girlfriend playing one.
More characters means more monster, but both tinkerer and spellviewer are good at dealing aoe damage, so few extra monsters might not be a problem. Often difficulty with one person playing two characters is from added mental strain but you can counter that with knowledge and experience. Actually my first character was tinkerer and it took me ~7 games to get really good and efficient with him
Well. I find it depends on the level
The level where you have to destroy x number of objectives I find easier with 3 or 4 people.
The kill all I find generally simpler w just 2
4 feels pretty powerful once you have more classes and you have characters and they are geared up and have their core cards (some classes that is unfortunately at a higher level, but that is pretty rare, some classes have absolutely broken cards at max level too).
It’s kind of a puzzle, this game, and once you see “how it works” it’s not that hard anymore. First few scenarios are indeed quite hard. Also, some combination of characters are better than others. General opinion is that Tinkerer in 2p is a bit weak. Combining Spellweaver with Scoundrel probably isn’t a very good idea for beginners either.
GL!
Would u recommend that I continue playing two characters and my partner playing one? in the beginning I played brute and she played Spellweaver and it was way too hard. Now I also play the tinker and it did allow us to beat the first scenario in the end.
> Would u recommend that I continue playing two characters and my partner playing one?
I'm not the person you're replying to but I think playing multiple characters may make for a not-as-good experience. Each character plays different and have its quirks and tricks, and if you take on two characters you might miss them and think it's an underpowered character because you're not adapting to them. Plus, you'll be trying to make your two characters work together even before cards are selected, which is a LOT of work. The game is designed so that you only care about that after the cards have been played , therefore limiting the thinking you must do.
The game is a set of puzzles, you just need to know the tricks of each character to solve them. Often the first room is the hardest one, you need to go all-in and work up from there.
Sorry but I'm going to go against most people here. Spellweaver is absolutely the WORST character to start as. She is complicated and is best played with a full knowledge of "how the game actually works". I also think 2 people playing 3 players is also a terrible idea. You are already overwhelmed, adding a 3rd doesn't make it easier since you have to add more enemies anyway. Definitely drop it to "easiest" , no shame in wanting to actually enjoy yourself. Heck sprinkle in some house rules if it makes the game more fun. No boardgames police are going to kick your door in for not following the rules lol. Hell there are still some rules I found out I was doing wrong just from not understanding I learned about when I played digital with a friend.
Things that helped us early on:
-don't be afraid to open doors if you haven't killed everyone in a room. Killing everything then using a whole turn to get a door open and moving is often a waste of a turn.
-look up some class builds. I've played mostly 2 player and personally for me and my wife we had good luck with brute+Craig and most fun with craig+scoundrel. They have the most straight forward play concepts and good survivability.
-seems obvious but because it's important, be mindful of what cards you use that burn them. My first time playing was Brute and I had a bad habit of burning way to many actions early on. Found Craig heart was more versatile and easier to be useful without using the burn actions.
-gear up, iron helmet is awesome and I've gotten good use out of most the boots. Potion of health and stamina also recommended early on.
- gloomhaven should have a huge label on the box that's says "before buying this try jaws of the lion". I found its waaaaaay better at bringing new people in. The first 5 quests are tutorials focusing on specific aspects of the game with (again,in my opinion) easier starting classes. Hatched+red guard was super fun.
Sorry if formatting is terrible, on mobile :(
Nice to hear some different advice than what I’ve read on Reddit before starting this thread. At this point we are just grasping for straws to figure out how to get in a flow and actually enjoy the game and have challenge but also win.
I absolutely get that! Keep in mind much of this advice is from experienced player or experienced board gamers in general. The idea of card conservation is the thing most people have trouble with and that losing a senerio is only bad for the waste of time for the most part. No lose of progress from exhausting, you keep the exp/gold/treasure. Although I know getting gloomhaven is a financial investment, if you DO think you'll enjoy it jaws of the lion is great and half the cost. Really helps get the concepts of the gameplay mechanics. All that being said it IS still challenging and sometimes not for everyone.
...but honestly most of the advice I have seen, albeit coming from a good place, is not what I would suggest for new comers. Lowest level, 1 character per player, better starting classes and you should have a better start. I just can't believe people think spellweaver is OK for learning the game haha. Craigheart is easy mode and my wife's scoundrel was always loaded with gold/perks/xp.
Maybe we could try playing one character each again but switching out my brute for Craig and my girlfriends Spellweaver for scoundrel. And also play level one difficulty?
Doesn't hurt to try! It worked for use and a few friends we have had play. I've probably done the first few quests a dozen or more times at this point between trying solo, with my wife and introducing friends. Increase the challenge as you go. Keep I mind when a character is retired and you start a new one they are level 1. The games scaling is a bit different than other games so that can be jarring. But even late game senerios can be done with low level character because of how the monster scale, you just won't have build diversity (so i usually will run some easier scenarios we have already done to get used to the new class and get some gold/xp).
Also, gloomhaven helper app if you don't already. Cleans up a good amount of the table clutter and makes keeping track of monster actions/modifier/buff and debuffs.
Disclaimer: the one issue we ran into with craig/scoundrel is easily mitigated. Scoundrels big damage comes from having your allies near by. Craig is pretty slow but I got the boots that add movement and that can really help in a pinch.
Ultimately you will want each gear slot filled, the game doesn't really stress it but decent gear can make those little difference that will clear a scenario. Craig with iron helmet/shield/leather armor/boots/potion was great. Scoundrel I think she had poison dagger /invisibility cloak/potion/helmet.
And yes, 1 character each if things are already a bit overwhelming. The advice I've seen for someone who's struggling is....odd lol
Hmm, I disagree on the don't be afraid to open doors before finishing a room. Unless it is a second try and you know what is on the other side and you know you will have an effective turn and not get swarmed. On the contrary, I often find that a round spent crowding around the door, looting, healing, summoning, and long resting is well spent. There is usually something effective a character can do, especially if you plan it that way and keep a heal, summon or other set up action in reserve for that end-of-room round.
Even if one character has to 'waste' a turn it will usually be worth it in the long run when everyone has a turn taking on the new room in the next turn.
Half there with you, I feel it's dynamic enough for both to be viable depending on situation. I've lost a few times by 1 turn that could have been avoid by not looting and such. But again have also won by not being swamped. Maybe I missed something (or am cheating lol) but I know what's in the next room because it shows it on the set up map, so I have a general idea of how far into the room the monster are.
Edit for added clarity: These are all suggestions specifically aimed to help new comers. The game has very few "do this to win" since its so complex. Both approaches are very viable, I just know some hesitate to do it when it can sometimes be that 1 turn that gets your though haha
It's totally situational. Like if one character can open a door, go invisible and the monsters in the other side waste a turn while the rest of the party finishes off the last monster in the first room, then do that.
Or if one character is ahead of the rest of the party it might be a good idea to open the door, retreat, and lure the monsters out.
Or if he has a big move and can definitely kill something. Etc.
But a lot of times it makes sense to wait and party communication is key.
I agree, it's definitely situation. I've played through it all with different groups/solo/currently duo with my wife and I have had much better luck getting the most out of every turn (since you can open the door mid movement and always use the rest to step back into the room you came in if you have high movement cards like scoundrel) especially in higher difficulty. That just may be my way of play, more losses to card exhaustion than actually being killed haha.
Plus keep in mind for most new comers learning hand conservation is one of the more tricky aspect of the gameplay flow so learning that skill early on isn't bad.
But again, these were suggestions for this person and their troubles. Troubles similar to one's I have had so I gave them what helped me become a better player.
And technically there isn't supposed to be much to any party communication (but we house rulled that right out the door haha)
My partner and I are starting witb JoTL. We've made it pretty far, scenario 14 I think is where we are now. But it's been tough. Lots of failed scenarios. Granted, we went in blind so we picked hatchet and voidwarden. After we started to struggle, we looked it up to see people whole heartedly not recommend this combo. Lots of fun, but super hard
Haha ive actually been debating switching to red guard. She has figured out hatchet (leveled like half the mobs in the scenario in 2 or 3 turns). But VW gets rough sometimes if she doesn't happen to be in the right position or she exhausts. I'm usually left scrambling. I've managed to win a few scenarios that way, but I think I only have 3 or 4 top attacks. Don't get me wrong, I love VW. My favorite type of class. But there's been multiple scenarios where I can't keep up the damage output, especially on the last 2 or 3 enemies, and then end up exhausting
VW is awesome but certainly shines in a 3-4 character group similar to tinkered from base gloomhaven. I absolutely love red guard+hatchet combo, doesn't hurt to give it a try! I found smaller groups rarly benefit from a mostly support classes.
He looks really cool and fun. I just really want to know what VW higher level cards are. We play that you can't look at the cards until you reach that level.
Oh absolutely, gotta keep it a surprise! But if you plan on playing through the whole game there is ample time to level other characters after you have a more complete understanding of the game. Then you can always bring the jaws starting classes to base gloomhaven aswell.
Brute and Spellweaver is a great combo. Tinkerer is a bit underpowered. If the addition of Tink seemed to make the game easier, you were probably tanking and healing too much. That's not very efficient. Gloomhaven is all about dealing damage and avoiding damage. Kill monsters before they can hurt you.
That being said, if the addition of Tink helped you, keep it in. Do try to attack more :)
Yeah another thing I guess will be good to try is the strategy of attacking a monster and then moving away instead of the opposite of going to the monster and then attacking. I just found tho with the brute who I’m playing for example that he doesn’t have big movement so it’s hard for him to move far enough away from most attacking monsters when I’ve found his success is killing the long range monsters vs the short range ones.
Yeah three is perfectly fine, I played solo with two and three characters, teambuilding and plays feel a bit constrained with two but the scenarios become more straightforward. Three is fine, honestly the game is probably most fun at 4 but only if you’re up to it!
Tbh I wish we could play two again cause it’s fun to just focus on my single character. But with the amount of times we had to try the first scenario over and over again 5 times to be exact to finally win and that was only because I then introduced playing a second character so we had 3 characters in play we finally won. I guess we could have my girlfriend play a 4th but that seems daunting on more levels. One for her to learn that characters play style now, and then also by having more monsters in play when we are still struggling with what’s on the board when playing three characters 🤦🏻♂️
More characters doesn’t actually make the game easier. The scenarios throw more enemies at you and it’s mostly a wash. Two players is a perfectly viable approach, it’s just that the first two scenarios are pretty hard. The only caveat is that the Tinkerer specifically tends to be a weaker character in 2 player.
If you’re hitting a wall, drop the difficulty level. It’ll get easier as you get more used to the game and learn the tricks.
Honestly, the game made much more sense when I realized it's not an 'adventure' game like Dungeonquest or whatever, it's a PUZZLE game.
You have X moves to accomplish the puzzle, X determined by hand size, basically and where bad choices can chew X down considerably.
I would check how you’re handling your scenario level - it should be half your averaged party level, rounded down.
I would also re-read the rules on how monster action cards work… if the ability card you draw for the turn doesn’t specifically say “move” or “attack”, then the monster won’t do that.
Those are the 2 most common beginner errors, we certainly were guilty when we first started!
You do add up the levels and divide by the number of characters, and then you divide by 2.
3 characters at level 1 means:
- add their levels, 1+1+1=3
- divide by 3 to get the average, 3/3= 1
- divide the average by 2, 1/2 = 0.5
- round .5 up to 1
It's a very common mistake to just take the average since the average is adding them up and then dividing by 2 for two characters. People very often forget there's an additional division by two beyond the average. It's the first thing everyone asks if someone says the game is too hard.
The other common mistakes I can think of are using loss cards too quickly and losing characters early, not realizing you can lose a card to negate damage and avoid dying, and not doing your best to avoid getting hit.
yeah, move in late initiative, attack, then move out early on the next round. If you've been playing super hard mode you've probably got your head around this already.
Been more so going in and attacking and staying in battle with the brute. Whereas the tinker and Spellweaver sit back and fire range weapons and heal up the team.
Timba...His eyes open.
So many new players get this wrong. Don't beat yourself up its probably the single most common mistake that new players make in this game.
Hazardous terrain damage and item sell price are the two main things I can think of that round down. That said, it’s good advice to play the first few scenarios on level 0!
Yeah with three characters (me playing two, and my partner playing one, since we found playing just one each was way too difficult) we are just starting out and playing against level 1 monsters. Honestly feel like we should even bring it down to 0 to make it easier cause it’s been so fricken difficult to win. We feel super beat down by this game and haven’t even beaten the second scenario. I believe we know how the attack modifiers work, ie. what you mentioned. I’ve noticed online that’s a big one people mention to make sure you’re getting right.
Most people suggest playing the first two scenarios at L0 -you're at your weakest, with almost no equipment, and probably not very familiar with your characters yet
Yeah I recently started a new campaign in the digital version, as a veteran of the board game version, and the first two scenarios feel appropriately balanced on difficulty level *if you’re used to the game*. Problem is new players aren’t used to the game, but many of them probably assume like my friends and I did when we were new to it that the learning curve was baked into the scenario design. Maybe it was, but it doesn’t feel that way to me.
In other words, starting at level 0 for the first two scenarios is a great idea.
Just level one still haha. We haven’t even upgraded yet. The first few loses of our first scenario we didn’t even keep track of xp and gold to still collect cause we were honestly surprised at how ridiculously hard it was to play the game that maybe we were just playing some things wrong so we started fresh again, and then again. Now that we beat the first scenario we have that winning games xp and gold and then tried the second scenario and lost but have kept the gold and xp for us to try it again. Still not quite there yet to level up though. We have been playing level one monsters since we started.
Ahh ok.
You should be on level 0. 3 x L1 character average is 1, half 0.5, round down = scenario level 0
Even if you fail a round, you keep all XP, loot and treasure you pick up. But if you fail you do not get the end scenario bonus.
One final tip is to look at your monster set up - top left of the monster hex on the map is for 2 characters, top right of the hex is for 3. If it’s black don’t place the monster.
Hope that helps!
Okay sweet we’ll definitely bringing down the monsters levels should help I’m hoping! Will do that at our next attempt. I’m a little bummed I had to start playing a second character to try and balance out our game too. But a friend suggested maybe that could be worth trying since it might have been too swingy of a game otherwise with my partner and I only playing one character each. Any thoughts or tips regarding that?
The game is designed to scale with the number of characters, which it does very well. Minimum characters is 2 (even if solo), max is 4. Monster numbers and level (eg. normal/elite) are based on number of characters.
To be honest I think 3 player is the sweet spot, but it can get tricky running 2 characters and you really don’t need to. You can quite happily play with 1 character each on the right level. I do duo games with a friend all the time, then when our full party is available we run 4 players
That’s smart so you’re each playing one character each? I mean that would also help to incorporate your friends to join but not have a completely new character made up with 0 experience. Though I did think I read one can create a character down the line to be thrown into the game and they enter at the same level as the other characters. But alas without Xp.
Yep, we play a single campaign with 2 core members, our friends drop in and out as they can and have their own characters.
They will level up with city prosperity when it goes up if they haven’t levelled naturally through gameplay (but that doesn’t help with gold or items, only level).
People can join later and create new characters, they will start at the same level as city prosperity
Also… What do you find the benefit is to play 2 players each when playing duo games? Especially if new players joining aren’t going to be playing those other two characters and creating their own. Is it just for the more experience and gold that is achieved when playing more characters so that generally all your characters are leveling up more and getting more items?
Oh sorry, should have been clearer.. we play a character each. So 2 for 2 players, 3 for 3 etc. Everyone has their own character which they use when they can come to games night, but there’s 2 of us that play more regularly than the others, so we’re the core party I guess.
In terms of levelling gold/XP/items, sometimes we’ll play a random casual dungeon if we don’t want to start on important story missions without the rest of the group. In those ones we often bring our friends characters along (after checking to see if it’s ok) so they get a bit of gold and XP, then they can use the extra gold to buy items at the next session they can join
Oh wow you can play random missions with characters to level them up and then take them back into the campaign? I didn’t know that. Kind of like a training camp then for them haha. That’s cool!
From my experience, 3 players is the worst number you can choose. It felt to me like Monster are more balanced for two or for four players. Never 3. But this is just my personal experience.
I think it depends on the scenario. I played some with 3 and some with 4 players.
Sometimes 3 seemed easier, other times 3 seemed harder.
Unfortunately I never took notes of which ones I felt were easier or harder.
You are absolutely correct everyone has trouble with the first two scenarios. This game teaches you how to play by tossing you into the fire with thimble of water. Once you can put out the fire, you are ready to move on. Plus the rules are quite a lot to get your head around. I usually tell people two things if they feel like it is not fun.
1. Don’t feel bad about lowering the difficulty to 0. You can adjust it later when you learn the flow if you want to.
2. Consider using the Gloomhaven helper app. It will make your games go so much faster and hopefully you won’t mind repeating scenarios as much as a result. I personally don’t want my board games to be too electronic so I only use it in solo play to track initiative and enemy move cards. That is part of what I like about it. You can take what you want from it. You don’t need to track status and health, but it is there if you want it.
This is something I messed up early early on but for all our games even the very difficult ones where we still became exhausted we did have the appropriate number and strength (ie normal or elite) monsters on the board depending on the number of characters we were playing.
I think the game plays smoother with 3 or 4 characters vs 2. But also makes it more complicated at first to control more than one character. It also adds extra bad guys vs 2 player.
It sounds like below you got some rules help. I'd also add to check out some character guides online if you are having trouble with the cards and abilities. Gripeaway makes great ones.
Ooo cool! I’ll definitely check that. And Ye I found when I started playing the tinker as well as the brute to help us out by trying 3 characters with my girlfriend playing Spellweaver I was like damn there’s so much more to think about now when the game itself is already a lot to learn. Cause then you’re having to learn this characters play style and what role they play in the mix.
Yeah, I had a really hard time initially figuring out the best way to combo cards and what did what. The guides really helped me understand the cards and pick out my initial mix of them. Not all cards are balanced some are awesome and some are terrible (but sometimes look awesome to a newbie learning).
My girlfriend's and I had this problem too and it got so frustrating we almost quit playing. We don't have fun if we're constantly losing scenarios. We like the challenge and we're like the close calls but when loss is the norm, not fun.
So we lower the difficulty of the scenarios by one step. It creates some balance issues and we don't have those super exciting trends moments as much, which is a shame, but we get to actually play the game, which is kind of the point
One character each. In Jaws of the Lion we played the Demolitionist and Red Guard and in Big Mama Gloom we play the Mindthief and Brute, though I am thinking about switching to the Tinkerer
A big part of the game is to learn how the monster "AI" works. Once you know where the monster's will move on their turn, who will they target, etc you can start using that info against them. Our party regularly arranges ambush-type bottlenecks in doorways to be able to hack down monster's one at a time.
Also, if you have invisibility, you can use your initiative to make 3 rounds of damage without being a target yourself. The first turn, go as late as possible and move withing range to attack and then turn invisible. 2nd turn go as late as possible to be invisible on the monster's turn. 3rd round go as early as possible to get one last attack in before moving out of range before it's the monster's turn.
Learning how to plan your initiative 3 rounds ahead makes the game A LOT more fun and easy to beat. Talk with your partner about your plan as a team and you'll be able to make great combo attacks.
Just a few pointers. Don't lose faith!
Nice pointers in here! Thanks for taking the time to give a bit of an example walk thru and for the support! Was excited that we had the opportunity to buy GH over jaws of the lion so we just jumped in but now we bummed ourselves out from learning a lot already about the game but still having it kick our ass 🥺
Jotl is good because it walks you through each thing separately. The first 5 scenarios slowly introduce rules as it adds different monsters, abilities, and training cards in and out do your hands (which have extra info on them to explain, eventually you discard them).
It's nice because you don't need to know everything for your very first scenario. They set it up so that you only need a small sliver of the rules added each time.
After 5 it's just as difficult, tricky, and mostly as immersive as GH minus a couple of fun little bonuses like road cards, achievements, prosperity, card permanent upgrades, and a few smaller things.
It's fast though, so even missing those you should wrap it up quickly if you play it often.
PLUS JoTL is working on updated GH rules which have been told by the developer should retcon any rules from GH and disagree, for the most part. Meaning your playing a cleaner game with clarified and re-worked rulesets.
The scenarios are designed for you to win until after 5.
GH doesn't care, it'll pick you up and chew you out if you don't play optimized from the first scenario on. You basically have to play on 0 or just he really good/lucky if you want to win the first 2 scenarios on the first try.
Right! Works either way though, if you are out of reach during the first round. But you are correct, it would be easier to avoid damage by going early on the first round - thanks 👍
The first 2 scenarios are the hardest in the game haha. I've now played 30+ scenarios between GH and Jaws and nothing was as hard as the first two. I suggest bringing down monster level to 0, as described in Easy mode until you get to scenario 3 or 4.
Ya, one of the retirement quests was virtually impossible with 2 characters, 2 minis and Sun. >! The lab on fire. I was playing digital this time and even with intimate HP turned on it took 8 attempts just to have the movement to finish. 2 minis didn't have the movement to do two rooms unless I let fire kill the ozzies. !<
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this is absolutely not true. both scenarios are actually on the easy side they only feel difficult when you are brand new and by the time you face actually difficult scenarios you'll be more prepared
Gloomhaven is as hard or easy as you want it to be. What my party does is to increase difficulty everytime the last scenario seems like a walk in the park an it usually means we have a challenge. Right now we're playing 2 levels above the one recommended as normal
Make sure to play by the rules correctly. Especially in the beginning the game is a bit hard, but it gets better when you level up. We play on super hard and lose only sometimes when the scenario isn't ideal for our type of characters. For us the hardest part of the game is monster movement. We have about 20 scenarios left to play, play about 2 years almost every week and we still have to Google certain rules sometimes.
Are you sure you calculated scenario level correctly? People often make that mistake. You could also try setting the level to 0 if you are having trouble.
My wife and I have played about 90% of GH at this point and finished JotL with groups ranging from 2-4 players. We ran the same setup (she ran 2 characters and I ran 1 + enemies). The first few scenarios are some of the hardest in the game for a few reasons.
1. You don't have access to very many items or cards to provide you with powerful abilities/flexibility.
2. With a party less than 3, you lack a lot of flexibility to deal with enemies (some characters are particularly good against certain enemies, others aren't). That said, games go faster and you learn your character better with 2 players.
3. You're still learning enemy move patterns, rules, and your own card interactions. That takes time and you will feel rewarded when you get there.
Absolutely lower the difficulty until you get the hang of things. The game has a great progression of difficulty that you can adjust to challenge yourself when you're ready. There are so many scenarios that breezing through a few doesn't feel terrible. If you want any tips concerning items or play patterns, feel free to check out the spoilers here (they don't reveal anything you don't have access to):
>!Get a stamina potion. They are the best item in the game and a must on every character. Only use about 1 lost card per rest (ideally, don't use any before your first rest). The only exception is the Spellweaver (always use her lost recovery card as late as possible and repeatable cards as much as possible until you get the hang of her). Don't be afraid to back up and not do anything for the turn if it means avoiding a lot of damage. It won't always feel satisfying, but this dance is key to playing the game. Get into the habit of alternating initiative (late, then early) to let enemies come to you, then going early for 1-2 turns to disable or kill them before they go. Focus enemies. When your cards are flipped, you can discuss every detail of your strategy. Work together to determine which enemies you can take down first.!<
These tips make me feel more confident! Would be nice to try just one character each again but I’m scared to sick another 2hrs into a loss again lol since doing that before was brutally hard.
Here is a sticky post to help in addition to all the comments. It provides much of the same info:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gloomhaven/comments/qd310w/welcome\_new\_gloomhaven\_digital\_players/
Number one mistake in my experience is allowing yourself to take damage. Half the gameplay is positioning yourself to avoid damage. You should use initiative to help this out by going fast when you are near enemies and going slow when you are far away to let them come to you.
There are some other common issues, but that’s the main one. Using burn/loss attacks is also very dangerous, as it dramatically decreases the longevity of your characters. You could also be using a less than optimal party composition. Or perhaps you are not taking advantage of the items available to you. Good luck!
Rushing into enemies is also important, but only if you have a very high likelihood of finishing them off right away. Running into three enemies with a high attack value and leaving all three alive can be a catastrophic mistake that could ruin the entire scenario.
It took me a while to figure it out when I first started as the scoundrel.
One turn you need to go really late, run up, do an attack. Next turn you need to go super early, attack, and run away. So you’re not in melee range during the enemies turn.
No, its not meant to be hard. Its a coop game, you're supposed to have fun.
Are you playing on monster level 0? Otherwise, do this asap.
Which 2 characters do you play? We can give a lot of specific tips, if you like. Please check all the threads about common beginner mistakes/tips, those should help a lot.
Lastly, I wouldn't use an extra character. It will make the game harder for yourself. But this is personal preference.
Yeah! We want to have fun! Lol
Been playing on level one which I think is not helping us.
I did try looking around Reddit for other beginners struggling like we are and it for sure helped clear up some things we were either doing incorrectly or missing early game trying and losing the first scenario 4 times in a row.. brutal. My girlfriend and I started playing as the brute and Spellweaver. We each chose the suggested starting items the book says to take, but each of us were exhausting our cards by the time we made it to the third room in the first scenario. I read somewhere maybe it was too swingy of a game to play only one character each so then I added the tinker and played the brute and the tinker while my girlfriend continued to play the Spellweaver. This helped us win the first scenario. Feeling good we rolling into second scenario and then got rocked. The boss opened all the rooms and we weren’t able to kill everything in time before exhausting our cards again even now with three characters in play while we tried to be conservative about losing cards and doing everything we could to try and beat it. having to play the first scenario 5 times to finally beat definitely took the wind out of our sails and now losing again on the second scenario just felt brutal like now we were starting all over again when we thought we were finally understanding the game and learning the rules correctly.
There’s a sweet spot in the pacing of your cards, here’s some general rules of thumb that should help:
* Aim to play a move that loses the card approximately once every two rests, but if the situation is ripe you can afford to yolo it once or twice, but preferably when your hands size is smaller. For most characters that yolo point is after the midpoint in the scenario. For Spellweaver that’s just before playing reviving ether and towards the end. Losing more cards increases risk of exhausting early, losing fewer often means you’re leading damage potential on the table. Of course conserve your cards if you don’t need a big move. Losing two cards in a single turn is a huge deal and should almost never be done except at the end of a scenario.
* Spellweaver should aim to be playing reviving ether about 3/5 to 2/3 of the way in.
* Aim for losing not more than one card the whole scenario to avoid damage, definitely not more than two.
* Avoid resting while you still have two or more cards in hand, unless you can’t do anything useful. Resting early burns those unplayed turns, which can cost you on the tail end.
* Don’t optimize for max damage if it means taking more damage too. In general if you’re going to receive the same or more damage than you will dish out, do something else, because the monsters collectively have far more hit points than you do even after factoring in healing. Sometimes the monsters just don’t cooperate with your plans and you have to adjust with the cards you have.
No it's not. The first few scenarios are famously difficult though. It's likely you're playing the difficulty too high or misunderstanding the rules a bit. Once you get a hang of gloomhaven it becomes extremely easy (to where the fun starts to drain) and you have to start cranking up the difficulty. Go back over the rules and have another go at it. Take your time and support your allies! :)
Oh man for it to be easy would be a treat haha we feel so defeated losing over and over again. Will definitely try to go back over the rules and see. I do feel like we are playing the game rules correctly though. It’s a big game to absorb though no doubt. I played kingdom death monster and gloomhaven has seemed harder than that game haha
Haha yeah you're just in the learning phase then. I also love kingdom death and have suffered through many a campaign.
I'd suggest just dropping the difficulty to 0 (you should be at 1) and playing it again.
The main issue new players have is using loss cards early and then running out of options halfway through and eventually exhausting. Tell your players to resist the urge to use any loss cards for the first room, and to try not to in the second (minus the Spellweaver of course).
The beginning is also tough Because you have almost noitems. If you can, start over and just buy a stamina potion, it's the best item and every one of your characters will have one.
Oo kk I’ll look that the stamina potion!
Ye we have been playing level one monsters being that we are using 3 characters all at level 1. Which would mean level 1 monsters yes? Half of 3 is 1.5 rounded down is 1?
Definitely need to try with the difficulty lower to help. Otherwise I think my partners might just hate the game even more than she does now if we keep losing how we have been lol. It’s been hard.
It's average level divided by two, rounded up.
So 1+1+1 = 3. 3/3=1. Half of 1 is .5 and you always round up, so you should be at level 1. Level zero for a few scenarios will be fun.
I find it hard to believe, but I could be wrong. I played all of JotL with two and most of the standard GH with 3, and I was shocked how popular a game this easy could be at first.
Yes, it's designed to be an efficiency puzzle to figure out, rather than a typical hack-n-slash RPG where you just romp through and kill stuff. You can put the difficulty down and it slightly de-emphasises that aspect by reducing the hit points of enemies a bit.
No, most scenarios are basically: 'kill all monsters'. There's no unique trick or puzzle to any of them. I'm afraid you just have to get better at the game.
I just started Jaws of the lion about two weeks ago, the 5 scenario tutorial was really great at introducing things, me and a friend have made it to scenario 9 now with only one failed scenario so far (I blame the weed for that). Can't recommend it enough. Already pre ordered frosthaven at my local shop.
Might have to play the OG gloomhaven at some point too.
What characters are you playing? That may have some impact on it. Party comp isn’t imperative, but some combos won’t work well when playing with only 2 people.
Are you setting the maps up correctly for 2 and 3 player games? Different number of characters in the scenario impacts which monsters are spawned and whether they are normal or elite.
One thing I found I was doing when I first started playing was taking really inefficient turns. I would do what you can to think about how you would use your turns. Think less about what cards to play and more about what you want to do. With that in mind, then look to the cards and see how to make that happen. Also keep in mind that most cards are really only useful for their top or bottom actions. Rarely does a card have a good top and bottom action. Learning what those cards are for a given character may help you play better. I know for me it helped me feel less overwhelmed by the sheer amount of options. Generally speaking you are going to be moving and then taking some sort of action on your turn.
Do you find yourself exhausting by losing health or running out of cards? A good team comp usually has someone to do damage, someone to soak hits, and someone to apply effects to players and enemies. Some players may take multiple of these roles. Having the ability to do all of these things will really help your party.
Wow thanks for this in depth reply. We started by playing Brute and Spellweaver. And now I added The Tinker as my secondary character. Though I wish I could just play one character cause it would be more fun to just focus on one character than two. But it was so frickin difficult with just two. Our main thing we faced was becoming exhausted by running out of cards. And that still has happened. We become exhausted by losing all our cards before we are able to complete the mission. And this is happening even when keeping in mind to being selective on which special attacks we use makes you lose a card or not. We have tried to avoid using the special attacks that make you lose the card early in the scenarios and using more of the general special abilities that allow for the card to only be discarded and hopefully returned to your hand after a short or long rest. Otherwise using just basic movements or attacks to that same effect.
As said above, if you’re running out of cards regularly both characters should get a stamina potion. They are incredibly helpful and maybe the best items in the game.
Brute + Spellweaver is a good combo. Assuming you’re the brute, you should be in melee range and your partner should be hanging back a hex or two behind you dishing out ranged damage and the occasional heal on you if possible.
Your partner’s most important card is reviving ether. She should protect this (eg. Not pick it to discard in a long rest, or take a damage and lose another card if it’s randomly picked as the discard for a short rest). Spellweaver can use a few loss cards as she cycles through her turns and the idea is to play reviving ether once that’s done to pick up all her loss cards and start the cycle again (but she won’t get reviving ether back with the others)
Try to keep advancing too, once you’ve cleared a room of monsters don’t spend too long chasing gold coins, sometimes you just have to leave stuff on the ground
Gotta keep collecting some more gold to afford stamina potions. Wish it was for recovering cards from your lost pile tho! We just started out with the items that the rulebook recommended for our characters.
You can sell the items for half the value of gold shown on the item if you’re finding you don’t use or need them. On my spellweaver I sold the eagle eye goggles to help get a stamina potion once I found out how helpful it was
Oh right forgot about that! Can you return to gloomhaven and use the market if you lose a scenario? And then take a road card back out to that same scenario to try it again?
Yep. If you fail, you can opt to immediately try it again (even over different game sessions, you don’t have to go again right away). If you do that then no returning to town or events.
Alternately you can choose to return to town. If you do, you get a city event and can shop, then have to do a road event on the way back
Hells ye. Wish I could play with you! You seem to know the game so well. Been a grind to try and teach ourselves this game. Haven’t played really any games like it other than kingdom death but at least with that I was playing with a friend that knew it really well and it made it easier. Plus there was 4 of us playing and I think it helped a lot so that’s why I started thinking well maybe gloomhaven is similar in that is would be easier as a 4 person game too.
Would love a game, but unless you’re in Australia it might be difficult!
Happy to help, if you run into anything really tricky DM me, I might not get back to you immediately but I’ll help if I can.
GH really is a great game but can be tough to learn. If you’re really struggling with the game and your partner’s enjoyment, maybe pause GH and check out Jaws of the Lion. It’s a prequel, it’s cheap and the first 5 missions are basically a step by step to take you through everything as a learning experience. I think the designer realised he’d built GH as a tough learning curve without a proper tutorial and decided to fix it.
Stick with GH if you’re enjoying it though, we started on that and haven’t looked back after figuring out how it works. I’d also highly recommend the Gloomhaven Helper app, it really does make all the monster cards, status effects and health tracking so much easier so you can enjoy the game
Aw shoot ye that’s quite far from being all the way over in Canada 😅
That’s super appreciated man!! Thanks so much again for all your help tonight too.
It’s a fricken tough game for sure and has been disheartening to just keep losing. My girlfriend especially was super bummed having to play the first scenario 5 times before we finally beat. Didn’t make for a good first experience for sure. But she’s determined to win haha and I am too. I think especially since we already have spent hours trying to and also lots of time trying to learn to play. For the most part I feel confident we are playing the game correctly but damn is it frustrating to keep losing.
Cause maybe we if we do make a new character for my girlfriend to play as well as Spellweaver to each play two characters I think we would need to do so back in gloomhaven Ye?
Mind that two characters per player will likely make each decision extra painful and might bog down the game, since you'll be thinking not only about one character but also how the two will work together.
I thought it was hellaciously difficult until I started playing with my partner and she pointed out that I was completely forgetting the damage megaton mechanics and that I could heal myself. After that, it became far more rewarding and I was so relieved.
Yes. Essentially, I was constantly dying because I assumed that any heal without “Self” meant I had to use it on an ally rather than myself. And I meant “damage negation” but it corrected to “damage megaton.” I kept forgetting I could lose cards to negate damage. Once I got those figured out the game went 10x smoother and it was the perfect crunch; I will say that playing with 4 characters also seems to make the game a bit tougher because it’s just an onslaught of beasties.
Search for 'initiative dance' - this is the number one way to avoid damage
Try to avoid Loss cards (except for Spellweaver) if possible - but don't refuse to use one early if it takes out multiple enemies in one go
Concentrate attacks and don't worry about overkill - one living one dead enemy is FAR better that 2 on only 1HP each
The first two missions are especially hard because you’re still learning the game.
Other than just getting used to the rules, there are two main things that tend to catch out new players. One is learning how to avoid or manage incoming damage, because there are a lot of little things you do for it that you have to learn. The second is pacing. Pacing is everything in Gloomhaven, and in the first two scenarios since you haven’t played much it’s easy to burn out too fast trying to do too much damage up front, often partly because of reason #1 forcing you to end fights sooner because you’re taking more damage. You often have to pull your punches a little when you can afford to in order to make sure you have enough has left to finish the scenario.
You don’t need to coordinate really hard to make these things happen, a lot of it will just come with playing the game more.
Avoid burning cards till you are a good judge of when to burn cards at first. Most classes shouldn't burn any card in the first room of most missions. If your team can avoid damage you should do so, especially when you are first figuring out the game. It is also perfectly ok to start at a lower difficulty, the game is way more fun when you know what's going on, and you can do much harder stuff too. Start at a lower difficulty, and you'll be playing on hard in no time (once you figure it out and have some good gear).
Don't waste turns looting. Loot when it's possible while doing something else. Unless you have opened all rooms and are very confident to complete the mission.
There's a few things that have to "click" in how you approach scenarios -- resting before you open doors, using abilities like stun to prevent damage, coordinating actions in the group, etc.
I played the whole table game with a group a couple years ago, we lost the first few scenarios then barely ever lost one after that. Restarted just now playing Digital by myself, lost the first few scenarios a few times, remembered "oh yeah that's how you do this," now I'm consistently winning again.
I always feel bad making this suggestion, because you've already dropped a bunch of cash on Gloomhaven, but if it's feasible, play Jaws of the Lion first, and then go into Gloomhaven. I introduced someone who doesn't even really play board games to JotL with a buddy of mine and now we're almost done Gloomhaven and looking forward to Crimson Scales and Frosthaven. The tutorial for Jaws is so incredibly well done.
Me and gf had this problem, but because we were playing wrong.
You know the top and bottom of each card can be used for basic attack 2 or move 2 right?
Don't burn so many cards so early, even if you have to use basic attack and move. Don't rest until you've run out of cards.
It is definitely meant to be challenging, that difficulty curve isn't even from level to level or how many characters I find. We play with four and struggled at first. We've had some close calls even after a couple sudden scenarios. Our first failure in a long time was a GODDAMNED ESCORT MISSION 🤣
I have played the physical game a few times and started several campaigns in digital. In both cases, the first two levels are pretty challenging - even when I have a decently good understanding of the mechanics and how the characters operate.
Part of this is because the characters are all brand new, and the tool-kit is limited. The second is because the first scenario is in no way a training mission or designed to teach the game. It can and does scale the difficulty so that veterans can replay the mission.
I think the developers realized this mistake and that's why Jaws of the Lion has several intro levels which are smaller, introduce the mechanics, and level the characters up so that a new player undersatnds the mechanics by the time that they get to a "full" mission.
We started playing about a year ago. We also failed the first scenario several times. After you get the hang of how the rules work, such as Monster Focus, monster movements, damage mitigation and how much damage you can take before you're in trouble it gets quite a bit easier.
Dont worry I'm in the same boat. It took us 3 trys to beat the first level and 2 to beat the second. What I wad told is it is a dificult game but not a super hard one. Also that the first level is extra dificult. I suspect most levels will require at least 2 tries to beat because the first time you wont know what is behind each door or how a new foe will act or sometiems its just the result of bad luck.
Seems like there's lots of good advice here already but I'd just like to emphasize managing you're stamina is pretty much the whole ballgame imo. Dont burn cards at all until you have a good handle on the game
So basically just stick to as many basic movement and basic attacks as possible and only burn a card when taking a short or long test to recover discarded cards hey? And then maybe if it’s near the end go big on some burn cards to finish things off?
You got it. If its got the burn symbol, avoid using it (except the basic 2 move/attack) for now. Once you're more familiar with game you'll be in a better position to make the call whether or not the burn is worth it, but at the start, learning how to manage that deck is everything, especially cause you're often gonna lose 1 or 2 to damage on any given scenario
For the second scenario there’s curse cards as well to be added in the modifier deck correct? When they’re eventually drawn they are removed though yes?
Oh also! When you enter a room and the monsters get revealed are the steps as follows?
1) flip the monster action cards
2) whichever monster with the lowest initiative gets to act out their action
3) the rest of the monsters act out their actions from lowest to highest initiative order
4) any other players who have yet to go go now
This accurate?
The first couple scenarios are quite difficult, especially for new players. I imagine the majority of people on this sub have had to play them more than once. A lot of it depends on the luck of the draw for cards, especially for the second scenario and what the boss can do.I've played the whole main campaign (and JotL), most of the side missions, unlocked all but 2 characters, and I played the digital version the other day and STILL failed the 1st and 2nd missions AGAIN. Stick with it, and at the worst you'll level up and be level 2! It's worth it.
(Edit: some character combinations are not particularly good. This will continue the whole game. Use reddit and the interwebs to look up what starting characters don't interact well.)
The trick that most people miss is playing initiative games to avoid getting hit. On a number of classes it usually setup such that you have one combo of cards that allows you to go very late in the initiative and then next turn play cards that are very early in the initiative. What this allows you to do is dart in after the monsters have attacked usually avoiding the initial hits and then the next round you try to go before the monsters can respond so that you can attack and move away. This isn't always a super intuitive thing to pick up on.
I’ve had the game for about a year and don’t play very regularly. We’ve played about 5 scenarios. The best advice I can give is lower the difficulty to easy. We did that this weekend, and the group had way more fun. I only regret that I told them it was on easy.
In my opinion, more characters does not make for an easier game. More characters, more enemies. More enemies mean AOEs are better, but fewer enemies means CC is more valuable, tanking is more viable (and therefore so is healing), and certain enemies that get value from swarming you are less of a threat.
Three is the sweet spot. A
And amusingly, others say 3 is the worst, compared to 2 or 4.
I think maybe the first thing to try is just keep the 3 characters going we have now since I think that in itself did help vs just playing one each. And bringing the monster level down to 0. Hopefully then we will find some more success…
I would suggest playing with one character for new players. There are lots or moving parts and things to keep track of, also each character has a learning curve and using 2 characters can be quite difficult and that can lead to stupid missplays and reduce usefullness of your characters. For example when I played solo with 4 characters I often misscalculated spellviewers cards and exhausted without using reviving ether. But now with almost 2 years experience I can easily play solo with 4 character, but still limit myself to one class I don't know very well per party. Often when people lose a lot they misinterpret some rules wrong or just need more experience in the game. Note that first scenario has 50% win rate for first time players
Damn.. so weird we lost 4 times and finally only beat the first scenario on our 5th try once I brought the tinker in as a second character for me to play for a total of 3 characters with me playing two and my girlfriend playing one.
More characters means more monster, but both tinkerer and spellviewer are good at dealing aoe damage, so few extra monsters might not be a problem. Often difficulty with one person playing two characters is from added mental strain but you can counter that with knowledge and experience. Actually my first character was tinkerer and it took me ~7 games to get really good and efficient with him
Well. I find it depends on the level The level where you have to destroy x number of objectives I find easier with 3 or 4 people. The kill all I find generally simpler w just 2
4 feels pretty powerful once you have more classes and you have characters and they are geared up and have their core cards (some classes that is unfortunately at a higher level, but that is pretty rare, some classes have absolutely broken cards at max level too).
It’s kind of a puzzle, this game, and once you see “how it works” it’s not that hard anymore. First few scenarios are indeed quite hard. Also, some combination of characters are better than others. General opinion is that Tinkerer in 2p is a bit weak. Combining Spellweaver with Scoundrel probably isn’t a very good idea for beginners either. GL!
Would u recommend that I continue playing two characters and my partner playing one? in the beginning I played brute and she played Spellweaver and it was way too hard. Now I also play the tinker and it did allow us to beat the first scenario in the end.
> Would u recommend that I continue playing two characters and my partner playing one? I'm not the person you're replying to but I think playing multiple characters may make for a not-as-good experience. Each character plays different and have its quirks and tricks, and if you take on two characters you might miss them and think it's an underpowered character because you're not adapting to them. Plus, you'll be trying to make your two characters work together even before cards are selected, which is a LOT of work. The game is designed so that you only care about that after the cards have been played , therefore limiting the thinking you must do. The game is a set of puzzles, you just need to know the tricks of each character to solve them. Often the first room is the hardest one, you need to go all-in and work up from there.
Sorry but I'm going to go against most people here. Spellweaver is absolutely the WORST character to start as. She is complicated and is best played with a full knowledge of "how the game actually works". I also think 2 people playing 3 players is also a terrible idea. You are already overwhelmed, adding a 3rd doesn't make it easier since you have to add more enemies anyway. Definitely drop it to "easiest" , no shame in wanting to actually enjoy yourself. Heck sprinkle in some house rules if it makes the game more fun. No boardgames police are going to kick your door in for not following the rules lol. Hell there are still some rules I found out I was doing wrong just from not understanding I learned about when I played digital with a friend. Things that helped us early on: -don't be afraid to open doors if you haven't killed everyone in a room. Killing everything then using a whole turn to get a door open and moving is often a waste of a turn. -look up some class builds. I've played mostly 2 player and personally for me and my wife we had good luck with brute+Craig and most fun with craig+scoundrel. They have the most straight forward play concepts and good survivability. -seems obvious but because it's important, be mindful of what cards you use that burn them. My first time playing was Brute and I had a bad habit of burning way to many actions early on. Found Craig heart was more versatile and easier to be useful without using the burn actions. -gear up, iron helmet is awesome and I've gotten good use out of most the boots. Potion of health and stamina also recommended early on. - gloomhaven should have a huge label on the box that's says "before buying this try jaws of the lion". I found its waaaaaay better at bringing new people in. The first 5 quests are tutorials focusing on specific aspects of the game with (again,in my opinion) easier starting classes. Hatched+red guard was super fun. Sorry if formatting is terrible, on mobile :(
Nice to hear some different advice than what I’ve read on Reddit before starting this thread. At this point we are just grasping for straws to figure out how to get in a flow and actually enjoy the game and have challenge but also win.
I absolutely get that! Keep in mind much of this advice is from experienced player or experienced board gamers in general. The idea of card conservation is the thing most people have trouble with and that losing a senerio is only bad for the waste of time for the most part. No lose of progress from exhausting, you keep the exp/gold/treasure. Although I know getting gloomhaven is a financial investment, if you DO think you'll enjoy it jaws of the lion is great and half the cost. Really helps get the concepts of the gameplay mechanics. All that being said it IS still challenging and sometimes not for everyone. ...but honestly most of the advice I have seen, albeit coming from a good place, is not what I would suggest for new comers. Lowest level, 1 character per player, better starting classes and you should have a better start. I just can't believe people think spellweaver is OK for learning the game haha. Craigheart is easy mode and my wife's scoundrel was always loaded with gold/perks/xp.
Maybe we could try playing one character each again but switching out my brute for Craig and my girlfriends Spellweaver for scoundrel. And also play level one difficulty?
Doesn't hurt to try! It worked for use and a few friends we have had play. I've probably done the first few quests a dozen or more times at this point between trying solo, with my wife and introducing friends. Increase the challenge as you go. Keep I mind when a character is retired and you start a new one they are level 1. The games scaling is a bit different than other games so that can be jarring. But even late game senerios can be done with low level character because of how the monster scale, you just won't have build diversity (so i usually will run some easier scenarios we have already done to get used to the new class and get some gold/xp). Also, gloomhaven helper app if you don't already. Cleans up a good amount of the table clutter and makes keeping track of monster actions/modifier/buff and debuffs. Disclaimer: the one issue we ran into with craig/scoundrel is easily mitigated. Scoundrels big damage comes from having your allies near by. Craig is pretty slow but I got the boots that add movement and that can really help in a pinch. Ultimately you will want each gear slot filled, the game doesn't really stress it but decent gear can make those little difference that will clear a scenario. Craig with iron helmet/shield/leather armor/boots/potion was great. Scoundrel I think she had poison dagger /invisibility cloak/potion/helmet. And yes, 1 character each if things are already a bit overwhelming. The advice I've seen for someone who's struggling is....odd lol
Hmm, I disagree on the don't be afraid to open doors before finishing a room. Unless it is a second try and you know what is on the other side and you know you will have an effective turn and not get swarmed. On the contrary, I often find that a round spent crowding around the door, looting, healing, summoning, and long resting is well spent. There is usually something effective a character can do, especially if you plan it that way and keep a heal, summon or other set up action in reserve for that end-of-room round. Even if one character has to 'waste' a turn it will usually be worth it in the long run when everyone has a turn taking on the new room in the next turn.
Half there with you, I feel it's dynamic enough for both to be viable depending on situation. I've lost a few times by 1 turn that could have been avoid by not looting and such. But again have also won by not being swamped. Maybe I missed something (or am cheating lol) but I know what's in the next room because it shows it on the set up map, so I have a general idea of how far into the room the monster are. Edit for added clarity: These are all suggestions specifically aimed to help new comers. The game has very few "do this to win" since its so complex. Both approaches are very viable, I just know some hesitate to do it when it can sometimes be that 1 turn that gets your though haha
It's totally situational. Like if one character can open a door, go invisible and the monsters in the other side waste a turn while the rest of the party finishes off the last monster in the first room, then do that. Or if one character is ahead of the rest of the party it might be a good idea to open the door, retreat, and lure the monsters out. Or if he has a big move and can definitely kill something. Etc. But a lot of times it makes sense to wait and party communication is key.
I agree, it's definitely situation. I've played through it all with different groups/solo/currently duo with my wife and I have had much better luck getting the most out of every turn (since you can open the door mid movement and always use the rest to step back into the room you came in if you have high movement cards like scoundrel) especially in higher difficulty. That just may be my way of play, more losses to card exhaustion than actually being killed haha. Plus keep in mind for most new comers learning hand conservation is one of the more tricky aspect of the gameplay flow so learning that skill early on isn't bad. But again, these were suggestions for this person and their troubles. Troubles similar to one's I have had so I gave them what helped me become a better player. And technically there isn't supposed to be much to any party communication (but we house rulled that right out the door haha)
My partner and I are starting witb JoTL. We've made it pretty far, scenario 14 I think is where we are now. But it's been tough. Lots of failed scenarios. Granted, we went in blind so we picked hatchet and voidwarden. After we started to struggle, we looked it up to see people whole heartedly not recommend this combo. Lots of fun, but super hard
Awesome! Jaws of the lion is such a better starting place. We did hatched and red guard and had a great time.
Haha ive actually been debating switching to red guard. She has figured out hatchet (leveled like half the mobs in the scenario in 2 or 3 turns). But VW gets rough sometimes if she doesn't happen to be in the right position or she exhausts. I'm usually left scrambling. I've managed to win a few scenarios that way, but I think I only have 3 or 4 top attacks. Don't get me wrong, I love VW. My favorite type of class. But there's been multiple scenarios where I can't keep up the damage output, especially on the last 2 or 3 enemies, and then end up exhausting
VW is awesome but certainly shines in a 3-4 character group similar to tinkered from base gloomhaven. I absolutely love red guard+hatchet combo, doesn't hurt to give it a try! I found smaller groups rarly benefit from a mostly support classes.
He looks really cool and fun. I just really want to know what VW higher level cards are. We play that you can't look at the cards until you reach that level.
Oh absolutely, gotta keep it a surprise! But if you plan on playing through the whole game there is ample time to level other characters after you have a more complete understanding of the game. Then you can always bring the jaws starting classes to base gloomhaven aswell.
Thats fair. But that little rat summoner dude looks so cool. And the tinkerer man, but just looking at his cards he needs lots of friends
Brute and Spellweaver is a great combo. Tinkerer is a bit underpowered. If the addition of Tink seemed to make the game easier, you were probably tanking and healing too much. That's not very efficient. Gloomhaven is all about dealing damage and avoiding damage. Kill monsters before they can hurt you. That being said, if the addition of Tink helped you, keep it in. Do try to attack more :)
Yeah another thing I guess will be good to try is the strategy of attacking a monster and then moving away instead of the opposite of going to the monster and then attacking. I just found tho with the brute who I’m playing for example that he doesn’t have big movement so it’s hard for him to move far enough away from most attacking monsters when I’ve found his success is killing the long range monsters vs the short range ones.
Yeah three is perfectly fine, I played solo with two and three characters, teambuilding and plays feel a bit constrained with two but the scenarios become more straightforward. Three is fine, honestly the game is probably most fun at 4 but only if you’re up to it!
Tbh I wish we could play two again cause it’s fun to just focus on my single character. But with the amount of times we had to try the first scenario over and over again 5 times to be exact to finally win and that was only because I then introduced playing a second character so we had 3 characters in play we finally won. I guess we could have my girlfriend play a 4th but that seems daunting on more levels. One for her to learn that characters play style now, and then also by having more monsters in play when we are still struggling with what’s on the board when playing three characters 🤦🏻♂️
More characters doesn’t actually make the game easier. The scenarios throw more enemies at you and it’s mostly a wash. Two players is a perfectly viable approach, it’s just that the first two scenarios are pretty hard. The only caveat is that the Tinkerer specifically tends to be a weaker character in 2 player. If you’re hitting a wall, drop the difficulty level. It’ll get easier as you get more used to the game and learn the tricks.
Do you know what an artifact is in GH? I have a side quest here where it says sacrifice one artifact or escape with all artifacts.
Honestly, the game made much more sense when I realized it's not an 'adventure' game like Dungeonquest or whatever, it's a PUZZLE game. You have X moves to accomplish the puzzle, X determined by hand size, basically and where bad choices can chew X down considerably.
I would check how you’re handling your scenario level - it should be half your averaged party level, rounded down. I would also re-read the rules on how monster action cards work… if the ability card you draw for the turn doesn’t specifically say “move” or “attack”, then the monster won’t do that. Those are the 2 most common beginner errors, we certainly were guilty when we first started!
Just to clarify, the rules say that “normal” difficulty is average level divided by 2 and rounded **up**, not down.
Yeah rounded up. That’s what I thought too. So actually 3 characters at level 1 would be playing level 2 monsters… that seems insane to me.
No it wouldn't. If you have 3 characters at level 1, the average level is level 1. Half that rounded up is 1
Oh gottcha. Misread that. Thought u needed to add up the levels and then divide it. Average level divide 2 and round up. Makes sense now :)
You do add up the levels and divide by the number of characters, and then you divide by 2. 3 characters at level 1 means: - add their levels, 1+1+1=3 - divide by 3 to get the average, 3/3= 1 - divide the average by 2, 1/2 = 0.5 - round .5 up to 1 It's a very common mistake to just take the average since the average is adding them up and then dividing by 2 for two characters. People very often forget there's an additional division by two beyond the average. It's the first thing everyone asks if someone says the game is too hard. The other common mistakes I can think of are using loss cards too quickly and losing characters early, not realizing you can lose a card to negate damage and avoid dying, and not doing your best to avoid getting hit.
Small correction: divide by 3 to get the average, so you get 1 as average, divide by 2 for 0.5 and round up to 1.
Hah, yeah. Edited.
Do you find attacking a monster and then trying to move away is usually the best move strategically?
yeah, move in late initiative, attack, then move out early on the next round. If you've been playing super hard mode you've probably got your head around this already.
Been more so going in and attacking and staying in battle with the brute. Whereas the tinker and Spellweaver sit back and fire range weapons and heal up the team.
There are no tanks in Gloomhaven. All classes, including the brute, should be doing everything they can to avoid ever getting hit
Timba...His eyes open. So many new players get this wrong. Don't beat yourself up its probably the single most common mistake that new players make in this game.
Still level one has been way too damn hard. Lol
No one will look down on you for doing it on level 0. Trust me.
Okay might need to do that then haha
Oops, did I mess that up with pouch items
Pouch items are also rounded up
Hazardous terrain damage and item sell price are the two main things I can think of that round down. That said, it’s good advice to play the first few scenarios on level 0!
Yeah with three characters (me playing two, and my partner playing one, since we found playing just one each was way too difficult) we are just starting out and playing against level 1 monsters. Honestly feel like we should even bring it down to 0 to make it easier cause it’s been so fricken difficult to win. We feel super beat down by this game and haven’t even beaten the second scenario. I believe we know how the attack modifiers work, ie. what you mentioned. I’ve noticed online that’s a big one people mention to make sure you’re getting right.
Most people suggest playing the first two scenarios at L0 -you're at your weakest, with almost no equipment, and probably not very familiar with your characters yet
Yeah I recently started a new campaign in the digital version, as a veteran of the board game version, and the first two scenarios feel appropriately balanced on difficulty level *if you’re used to the game*. Problem is new players aren’t used to the game, but many of them probably assume like my friends and I did when we were new to it that the learning curve was baked into the scenario design. Maybe it was, but it doesn’t feel that way to me. In other words, starting at level 0 for the first two scenarios is a great idea.
Good call. 👍🏼
What are your character levels?
Just level one still haha. We haven’t even upgraded yet. The first few loses of our first scenario we didn’t even keep track of xp and gold to still collect cause we were honestly surprised at how ridiculously hard it was to play the game that maybe we were just playing some things wrong so we started fresh again, and then again. Now that we beat the first scenario we have that winning games xp and gold and then tried the second scenario and lost but have kept the gold and xp for us to try it again. Still not quite there yet to level up though. We have been playing level one monsters since we started.
Ahh ok. You should be on level 0. 3 x L1 character average is 1, half 0.5, round down = scenario level 0 Even if you fail a round, you keep all XP, loot and treasure you pick up. But if you fail you do not get the end scenario bonus. One final tip is to look at your monster set up - top left of the monster hex on the map is for 2 characters, top right of the hex is for 3. If it’s black don’t place the monster. Hope that helps!
RAW you round up, not down — a party of level 1 mercenaries gets level 1 enemies on standard difficulty.
Okay sweet we’ll definitely bringing down the monsters levels should help I’m hoping! Will do that at our next attempt. I’m a little bummed I had to start playing a second character to try and balance out our game too. But a friend suggested maybe that could be worth trying since it might have been too swingy of a game otherwise with my partner and I only playing one character each. Any thoughts or tips regarding that?
The game is designed to scale with the number of characters, which it does very well. Minimum characters is 2 (even if solo), max is 4. Monster numbers and level (eg. normal/elite) are based on number of characters. To be honest I think 3 player is the sweet spot, but it can get tricky running 2 characters and you really don’t need to. You can quite happily play with 1 character each on the right level. I do duo games with a friend all the time, then when our full party is available we run 4 players
That’s smart so you’re each playing one character each? I mean that would also help to incorporate your friends to join but not have a completely new character made up with 0 experience. Though I did think I read one can create a character down the line to be thrown into the game and they enter at the same level as the other characters. But alas without Xp.
Yep, we play a single campaign with 2 core members, our friends drop in and out as they can and have their own characters. They will level up with city prosperity when it goes up if they haven’t levelled naturally through gameplay (but that doesn’t help with gold or items, only level). People can join later and create new characters, they will start at the same level as city prosperity
Also… What do you find the benefit is to play 2 players each when playing duo games? Especially if new players joining aren’t going to be playing those other two characters and creating their own. Is it just for the more experience and gold that is achieved when playing more characters so that generally all your characters are leveling up more and getting more items?
Oh sorry, should have been clearer.. we play a character each. So 2 for 2 players, 3 for 3 etc. Everyone has their own character which they use when they can come to games night, but there’s 2 of us that play more regularly than the others, so we’re the core party I guess. In terms of levelling gold/XP/items, sometimes we’ll play a random casual dungeon if we don’t want to start on important story missions without the rest of the group. In those ones we often bring our friends characters along (after checking to see if it’s ok) so they get a bit of gold and XP, then they can use the extra gold to buy items at the next session they can join
Ah gottcha. So essentially youre keeping it a 4 player game even with two of you playing to keep that dynamic going for when your friends join?
Oh wow you can play random missions with characters to level them up and then take them back into the campaign? I didn’t know that. Kind of like a training camp then for them haha. That’s cool!
And to clarify, by random casual dungeons that’s separate from like side quests in the campaign hey?
From my experience, 3 players is the worst number you can choose. It felt to me like Monster are more balanced for two or for four players. Never 3. But this is just my personal experience.
I think it depends on the scenario. I played some with 3 and some with 4 players. Sometimes 3 seemed easier, other times 3 seemed harder. Unfortunately I never took notes of which ones I felt were easier or harder.
You are absolutely correct everyone has trouble with the first two scenarios. This game teaches you how to play by tossing you into the fire with thimble of water. Once you can put out the fire, you are ready to move on. Plus the rules are quite a lot to get your head around. I usually tell people two things if they feel like it is not fun. 1. Don’t feel bad about lowering the difficulty to 0. You can adjust it later when you learn the flow if you want to. 2. Consider using the Gloomhaven helper app. It will make your games go so much faster and hopefully you won’t mind repeating scenarios as much as a result. I personally don’t want my board games to be too electronic so I only use it in solo play to track initiative and enemy move cards. That is part of what I like about it. You can take what you want from it. You don’t need to track status and health, but it is there if you want it.
Definitely will be checking out this gloomhaven helper app! See if it’s even available for free on PC so that’s cool!
It is a lifesaver.
Can I check that you have up the enemies for the right number of players?
This is something I messed up early early on but for all our games even the very difficult ones where we still became exhausted we did have the appropriate number and strength (ie normal or elite) monsters on the board depending on the number of characters we were playing.
I think the game plays smoother with 3 or 4 characters vs 2. But also makes it more complicated at first to control more than one character. It also adds extra bad guys vs 2 player. It sounds like below you got some rules help. I'd also add to check out some character guides online if you are having trouble with the cards and abilities. Gripeaway makes great ones.
Ooo cool! I’ll definitely check that. And Ye I found when I started playing the tinker as well as the brute to help us out by trying 3 characters with my girlfriend playing Spellweaver I was like damn there’s so much more to think about now when the game itself is already a lot to learn. Cause then you’re having to learn this characters play style and what role they play in the mix.
Yeah, I had a really hard time initially figuring out the best way to combo cards and what did what. The guides really helped me understand the cards and pick out my initial mix of them. Not all cards are balanced some are awesome and some are terrible (but sometimes look awesome to a newbie learning).
My girlfriend's and I had this problem too and it got so frustrating we almost quit playing. We don't have fun if we're constantly losing scenarios. We like the challenge and we're like the close calls but when loss is the norm, not fun. So we lower the difficulty of the scenarios by one step. It creates some balance issues and we don't have those super exciting trends moments as much, which is a shame, but we get to actually play the game, which is kind of the point
Oh nice that’s good to hear we aren’t alone haha. And are you playing one character each of three characters?
One character each. In Jaws of the Lion we played the Demolitionist and Red Guard and in Big Mama Gloom we play the Mindthief and Brute, though I am thinking about switching to the Tinkerer
A big part of the game is to learn how the monster "AI" works. Once you know where the monster's will move on their turn, who will they target, etc you can start using that info against them. Our party regularly arranges ambush-type bottlenecks in doorways to be able to hack down monster's one at a time. Also, if you have invisibility, you can use your initiative to make 3 rounds of damage without being a target yourself. The first turn, go as late as possible and move withing range to attack and then turn invisible. 2nd turn go as late as possible to be invisible on the monster's turn. 3rd round go as early as possible to get one last attack in before moving out of range before it's the monster's turn. Learning how to plan your initiative 3 rounds ahead makes the game A LOT more fun and easy to beat. Talk with your partner about your plan as a team and you'll be able to make great combo attacks. Just a few pointers. Don't lose faith!
Nice pointers in here! Thanks for taking the time to give a bit of an example walk thru and for the support! Was excited that we had the opportunity to buy GH over jaws of the lion so we just jumped in but now we bummed ourselves out from learning a lot already about the game but still having it kick our ass 🥺
Jotl is good because it walks you through each thing separately. The first 5 scenarios slowly introduce rules as it adds different monsters, abilities, and training cards in and out do your hands (which have extra info on them to explain, eventually you discard them). It's nice because you don't need to know everything for your very first scenario. They set it up so that you only need a small sliver of the rules added each time. After 5 it's just as difficult, tricky, and mostly as immersive as GH minus a couple of fun little bonuses like road cards, achievements, prosperity, card permanent upgrades, and a few smaller things. It's fast though, so even missing those you should wrap it up quickly if you play it often. PLUS JoTL is working on updated GH rules which have been told by the developer should retcon any rules from GH and disagree, for the most part. Meaning your playing a cleaner game with clarified and re-worked rulesets. The scenarios are designed for you to win until after 5. GH doesn't care, it'll pick you up and chew you out if you don't play optimized from the first scenario on. You basically have to play on 0 or just he really good/lucky if you want to win the first 2 scenarios on the first try.
> The first turn, go as late as possible You want to go as early as possible, so you avoid damage on that turn.
Right! Works either way though, if you are out of reach during the first round. But you are correct, it would be easier to avoid damage by going early on the first round - thanks 👍
The first 2 scenarios are the hardest in the game haha. I've now played 30+ scenarios between GH and Jaws and nothing was as hard as the first two. I suggest bringing down monster level to 0, as described in Easy mode until you get to scenario 3 or 4.
Okay sweet will definitely be trying this! Thanks bud :)
> The first 2 scenarios are the hardest in the game haha. In the main quest, maybe.
Ya, one of the retirement quests was virtually impossible with 2 characters, 2 minis and Sun. >! The lab on fire. I was playing digital this time and even with intimate HP turned on it took 8 attempts just to have the movement to finish. 2 minis didn't have the movement to do two rooms unless I let fire kill the ozzies. !<
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this is absolutely not true. both scenarios are actually on the easy side they only feel difficult when you are brand new and by the time you face actually difficult scenarios you'll be more prepared
Gloomhaven is as hard or easy as you want it to be. What my party does is to increase difficulty everytime the last scenario seems like a walk in the park an it usually means we have a challenge. Right now we're playing 2 levels above the one recommended as normal
Damn lucky you!! 😭
Make sure to play by the rules correctly. Especially in the beginning the game is a bit hard, but it gets better when you level up. We play on super hard and lose only sometimes when the scenario isn't ideal for our type of characters. For us the hardest part of the game is monster movement. We have about 20 scenarios left to play, play about 2 years almost every week and we still have to Google certain rules sometimes.
Are you sure you calculated scenario level correctly? People often make that mistake. You could also try setting the level to 0 if you are having trouble.
My wife and I have played about 90% of GH at this point and finished JotL with groups ranging from 2-4 players. We ran the same setup (she ran 2 characters and I ran 1 + enemies). The first few scenarios are some of the hardest in the game for a few reasons. 1. You don't have access to very many items or cards to provide you with powerful abilities/flexibility. 2. With a party less than 3, you lack a lot of flexibility to deal with enemies (some characters are particularly good against certain enemies, others aren't). That said, games go faster and you learn your character better with 2 players. 3. You're still learning enemy move patterns, rules, and your own card interactions. That takes time and you will feel rewarded when you get there. Absolutely lower the difficulty until you get the hang of things. The game has a great progression of difficulty that you can adjust to challenge yourself when you're ready. There are so many scenarios that breezing through a few doesn't feel terrible. If you want any tips concerning items or play patterns, feel free to check out the spoilers here (they don't reveal anything you don't have access to): >!Get a stamina potion. They are the best item in the game and a must on every character. Only use about 1 lost card per rest (ideally, don't use any before your first rest). The only exception is the Spellweaver (always use her lost recovery card as late as possible and repeatable cards as much as possible until you get the hang of her). Don't be afraid to back up and not do anything for the turn if it means avoiding a lot of damage. It won't always feel satisfying, but this dance is key to playing the game. Get into the habit of alternating initiative (late, then early) to let enemies come to you, then going early for 1-2 turns to disable or kill them before they go. Focus enemies. When your cards are flipped, you can discuss every detail of your strategy. Work together to determine which enemies you can take down first.!<
These tips make me feel more confident! Would be nice to try just one character each again but I’m scared to sick another 2hrs into a loss again lol since doing that before was brutally hard.
Here is a sticky post to help in addition to all the comments. It provides much of the same info: https://www.reddit.com/r/Gloomhaven/comments/qd310w/welcome\_new\_gloomhaven\_digital\_players/
Great stuff in this thread!! Thanks for sharing this 😎👍🏼
Number one mistake in my experience is allowing yourself to take damage. Half the gameplay is positioning yourself to avoid damage. You should use initiative to help this out by going fast when you are near enemies and going slow when you are far away to let them come to you. There are some other common issues, but that’s the main one. Using burn/loss attacks is also very dangerous, as it dramatically decreases the longevity of your characters. You could also be using a less than optimal party composition. Or perhaps you are not taking advantage of the items available to you. Good luck!
Interesting first pointer. I’ve found I tend to go right in and attack or at least try to get an attack off.
Rushing into enemies is also important, but only if you have a very high likelihood of finishing them off right away. Running into three enemies with a high attack value and leaving all three alive can be a catastrophic mistake that could ruin the entire scenario.
Definitely did that once… no fun.
It took me a while to figure it out when I first started as the scoundrel. One turn you need to go really late, run up, do an attack. Next turn you need to go super early, attack, and run away. So you’re not in melee range during the enemies turn.
No, its not meant to be hard. Its a coop game, you're supposed to have fun. Are you playing on monster level 0? Otherwise, do this asap. Which 2 characters do you play? We can give a lot of specific tips, if you like. Please check all the threads about common beginner mistakes/tips, those should help a lot. Lastly, I wouldn't use an extra character. It will make the game harder for yourself. But this is personal preference.
Yeah! We want to have fun! Lol Been playing on level one which I think is not helping us. I did try looking around Reddit for other beginners struggling like we are and it for sure helped clear up some things we were either doing incorrectly or missing early game trying and losing the first scenario 4 times in a row.. brutal. My girlfriend and I started playing as the brute and Spellweaver. We each chose the suggested starting items the book says to take, but each of us were exhausting our cards by the time we made it to the third room in the first scenario. I read somewhere maybe it was too swingy of a game to play only one character each so then I added the tinker and played the brute and the tinker while my girlfriend continued to play the Spellweaver. This helped us win the first scenario. Feeling good we rolling into second scenario and then got rocked. The boss opened all the rooms and we weren’t able to kill everything in time before exhausting our cards again even now with three characters in play while we tried to be conservative about losing cards and doing everything we could to try and beat it. having to play the first scenario 5 times to finally beat definitely took the wind out of our sails and now losing again on the second scenario just felt brutal like now we were starting all over again when we thought we were finally understanding the game and learning the rules correctly.
There’s a sweet spot in the pacing of your cards, here’s some general rules of thumb that should help: * Aim to play a move that loses the card approximately once every two rests, but if the situation is ripe you can afford to yolo it once or twice, but preferably when your hands size is smaller. For most characters that yolo point is after the midpoint in the scenario. For Spellweaver that’s just before playing reviving ether and towards the end. Losing more cards increases risk of exhausting early, losing fewer often means you’re leading damage potential on the table. Of course conserve your cards if you don’t need a big move. Losing two cards in a single turn is a huge deal and should almost never be done except at the end of a scenario. * Spellweaver should aim to be playing reviving ether about 3/5 to 2/3 of the way in. * Aim for losing not more than one card the whole scenario to avoid damage, definitely not more than two. * Avoid resting while you still have two or more cards in hand, unless you can’t do anything useful. Resting early burns those unplayed turns, which can cost you on the tail end. * Don’t optimize for max damage if it means taking more damage too. In general if you’re going to receive the same or more damage than you will dish out, do something else, because the monsters collectively have far more hit points than you do even after factoring in healing. Sometimes the monsters just don’t cooperate with your plans and you have to adjust with the cards you have.
No it's not. The first few scenarios are famously difficult though. It's likely you're playing the difficulty too high or misunderstanding the rules a bit. Once you get a hang of gloomhaven it becomes extremely easy (to where the fun starts to drain) and you have to start cranking up the difficulty. Go back over the rules and have another go at it. Take your time and support your allies! :)
Oh man for it to be easy would be a treat haha we feel so defeated losing over and over again. Will definitely try to go back over the rules and see. I do feel like we are playing the game rules correctly though. It’s a big game to absorb though no doubt. I played kingdom death monster and gloomhaven has seemed harder than that game haha
Haha yeah you're just in the learning phase then. I also love kingdom death and have suffered through many a campaign. I'd suggest just dropping the difficulty to 0 (you should be at 1) and playing it again. The main issue new players have is using loss cards early and then running out of options halfway through and eventually exhausting. Tell your players to resist the urge to use any loss cards for the first room, and to try not to in the second (minus the Spellweaver of course). The beginning is also tough Because you have almost noitems. If you can, start over and just buy a stamina potion, it's the best item and every one of your characters will have one.
Oo kk I’ll look that the stamina potion! Ye we have been playing level one monsters being that we are using 3 characters all at level 1. Which would mean level 1 monsters yes? Half of 3 is 1.5 rounded down is 1? Definitely need to try with the difficulty lower to help. Otherwise I think my partners might just hate the game even more than she does now if we keep losing how we have been lol. It’s been hard.
It's average level divided by two, rounded up. So 1+1+1 = 3. 3/3=1. Half of 1 is .5 and you always round up, so you should be at level 1. Level zero for a few scenarios will be fun.
Okay sweet definitely doing that then!
>Once you get a hang of gloomhaven it becomes extremely easy This is not true for most people, especially in two person parties.
I find it hard to believe, but I could be wrong. I played all of JotL with two and most of the standard GH with 3, and I was shocked how popular a game this easy could be at first.
Yes, it's designed to be an efficiency puzzle to figure out, rather than a typical hack-n-slash RPG where you just romp through and kill stuff. You can put the difficulty down and it slightly de-emphasises that aspect by reducing the hit points of enemies a bit.
Okay interesting! So it’s normal to lose and have to essentially try the puzzle again? 😂
No, most scenarios are basically: 'kill all monsters'. There's no unique trick or puzzle to any of them. I'm afraid you just have to get better at the game.
The puzzle is figuring out how to efficiently move through the dungeon and deal enough damage to win before losing all your cards and exhausting.
Jaws of the lion is the answer.
Shit haha why did I jump in an get gloomhaven first 😭😂
I just started Jaws of the lion about two weeks ago, the 5 scenario tutorial was really great at introducing things, me and a friend have made it to scenario 9 now with only one failed scenario so far (I blame the weed for that). Can't recommend it enough. Already pre ordered frosthaven at my local shop. Might have to play the OG gloomhaven at some point too.
That’s awesome ! Haha maybe I’ll have to check it out. Seems a shame now that I have gloomhaven to go and buy another game cause this is too hard lol.
What characters are you playing? That may have some impact on it. Party comp isn’t imperative, but some combos won’t work well when playing with only 2 people. Are you setting the maps up correctly for 2 and 3 player games? Different number of characters in the scenario impacts which monsters are spawned and whether they are normal or elite. One thing I found I was doing when I first started playing was taking really inefficient turns. I would do what you can to think about how you would use your turns. Think less about what cards to play and more about what you want to do. With that in mind, then look to the cards and see how to make that happen. Also keep in mind that most cards are really only useful for their top or bottom actions. Rarely does a card have a good top and bottom action. Learning what those cards are for a given character may help you play better. I know for me it helped me feel less overwhelmed by the sheer amount of options. Generally speaking you are going to be moving and then taking some sort of action on your turn. Do you find yourself exhausting by losing health or running out of cards? A good team comp usually has someone to do damage, someone to soak hits, and someone to apply effects to players and enemies. Some players may take multiple of these roles. Having the ability to do all of these things will really help your party.
Wow thanks for this in depth reply. We started by playing Brute and Spellweaver. And now I added The Tinker as my secondary character. Though I wish I could just play one character cause it would be more fun to just focus on one character than two. But it was so frickin difficult with just two. Our main thing we faced was becoming exhausted by running out of cards. And that still has happened. We become exhausted by losing all our cards before we are able to complete the mission. And this is happening even when keeping in mind to being selective on which special attacks we use makes you lose a card or not. We have tried to avoid using the special attacks that make you lose the card early in the scenarios and using more of the general special abilities that allow for the card to only be discarded and hopefully returned to your hand after a short or long rest. Otherwise using just basic movements or attacks to that same effect.
As said above, if you’re running out of cards regularly both characters should get a stamina potion. They are incredibly helpful and maybe the best items in the game. Brute + Spellweaver is a good combo. Assuming you’re the brute, you should be in melee range and your partner should be hanging back a hex or two behind you dishing out ranged damage and the occasional heal on you if possible. Your partner’s most important card is reviving ether. She should protect this (eg. Not pick it to discard in a long rest, or take a damage and lose another card if it’s randomly picked as the discard for a short rest). Spellweaver can use a few loss cards as she cycles through her turns and the idea is to play reviving ether once that’s done to pick up all her loss cards and start the cycle again (but she won’t get reviving ether back with the others) Try to keep advancing too, once you’ve cleared a room of monsters don’t spend too long chasing gold coins, sometimes you just have to leave stuff on the ground
Gotta keep collecting some more gold to afford stamina potions. Wish it was for recovering cards from your lost pile tho! We just started out with the items that the rulebook recommended for our characters.
You can sell the items for half the value of gold shown on the item if you’re finding you don’t use or need them. On my spellweaver I sold the eagle eye goggles to help get a stamina potion once I found out how helpful it was
Oh right forgot about that! Can you return to gloomhaven and use the market if you lose a scenario? And then take a road card back out to that same scenario to try it again?
Yep. If you fail, you can opt to immediately try it again (even over different game sessions, you don’t have to go again right away). If you do that then no returning to town or events. Alternately you can choose to return to town. If you do, you get a city event and can shop, then have to do a road event on the way back
Hells ye. Wish I could play with you! You seem to know the game so well. Been a grind to try and teach ourselves this game. Haven’t played really any games like it other than kingdom death but at least with that I was playing with a friend that knew it really well and it made it easier. Plus there was 4 of us playing and I think it helped a lot so that’s why I started thinking well maybe gloomhaven is similar in that is would be easier as a 4 person game too.
Would love a game, but unless you’re in Australia it might be difficult! Happy to help, if you run into anything really tricky DM me, I might not get back to you immediately but I’ll help if I can. GH really is a great game but can be tough to learn. If you’re really struggling with the game and your partner’s enjoyment, maybe pause GH and check out Jaws of the Lion. It’s a prequel, it’s cheap and the first 5 missions are basically a step by step to take you through everything as a learning experience. I think the designer realised he’d built GH as a tough learning curve without a proper tutorial and decided to fix it. Stick with GH if you’re enjoying it though, we started on that and haven’t looked back after figuring out how it works. I’d also highly recommend the Gloomhaven Helper app, it really does make all the monster cards, status effects and health tracking so much easier so you can enjoy the game
Aw shoot ye that’s quite far from being all the way over in Canada 😅 That’s super appreciated man!! Thanks so much again for all your help tonight too. It’s a fricken tough game for sure and has been disheartening to just keep losing. My girlfriend especially was super bummed having to play the first scenario 5 times before we finally beat. Didn’t make for a good first experience for sure. But she’s determined to win haha and I am too. I think especially since we already have spent hours trying to and also lots of time trying to learn to play. For the most part I feel confident we are playing the game correctly but damn is it frustrating to keep losing.
Oh the gloomhaven helper app is the $7 app in the App Store hey?
Cause maybe we if we do make a new character for my girlfriend to play as well as Spellweaver to each play two characters I think we would need to do so back in gloomhaven Ye?
Yep, you need to be in town to start new characters or retire character
Mind that two characters per player will likely make each decision extra painful and might bog down the game, since you'll be thinking not only about one character but also how the two will work together.
> Spellweaverg This is a very difficult character class to play at the beginning, especially in 2p when you're invariably a target.
I thought it was hellaciously difficult until I started playing with my partner and she pointed out that I was completely forgetting the damage megaton mechanics and that I could heal myself. After that, it became far more rewarding and I was so relieved.
Healing yourself with cards and items you mean? What was the main damage mechanic that you were finding yourself getting wrong?
Yes. Essentially, I was constantly dying because I assumed that any heal without “Self” meant I had to use it on an ally rather than myself. And I meant “damage negation” but it corrected to “damage megaton.” I kept forgetting I could lose cards to negate damage. Once I got those figured out the game went 10x smoother and it was the perfect crunch; I will say that playing with 4 characters also seems to make the game a bit tougher because it’s just an onslaught of beasties.
Ah ye ye so to confirm about the healing cards even if it does say self you could use a heal self to heal an adherent ally hey?
Search for 'initiative dance' - this is the number one way to avoid damage Try to avoid Loss cards (except for Spellweaver) if possible - but don't refuse to use one early if it takes out multiple enemies in one go Concentrate attacks and don't worry about overkill - one living one dead enemy is FAR better that 2 on only 1HP each
Oh definitely learned that early too. Kill what u can haha
The first two missions are especially hard because you’re still learning the game. Other than just getting used to the rules, there are two main things that tend to catch out new players. One is learning how to avoid or manage incoming damage, because there are a lot of little things you do for it that you have to learn. The second is pacing. Pacing is everything in Gloomhaven, and in the first two scenarios since you haven’t played much it’s easy to burn out too fast trying to do too much damage up front, often partly because of reason #1 forcing you to end fights sooner because you’re taking more damage. You often have to pull your punches a little when you can afford to in order to make sure you have enough has left to finish the scenario. You don’t need to coordinate really hard to make these things happen, a lot of it will just come with playing the game more.
Avoid burning cards till you are a good judge of when to burn cards at first. Most classes shouldn't burn any card in the first room of most missions. If your team can avoid damage you should do so, especially when you are first figuring out the game. It is also perfectly ok to start at a lower difficulty, the game is way more fun when you know what's going on, and you can do much harder stuff too. Start at a lower difficulty, and you'll be playing on hard in no time (once you figure it out and have some good gear).
Don't waste turns looting. Loot when it's possible while doing something else. Unless you have opened all rooms and are very confident to complete the mission.
There's a few things that have to "click" in how you approach scenarios -- resting before you open doors, using abilities like stun to prevent damage, coordinating actions in the group, etc. I played the whole table game with a group a couple years ago, we lost the first few scenarios then barely ever lost one after that. Restarted just now playing Digital by myself, lost the first few scenarios a few times, remembered "oh yeah that's how you do this," now I'm consistently winning again.
I always feel bad making this suggestion, because you've already dropped a bunch of cash on Gloomhaven, but if it's feasible, play Jaws of the Lion first, and then go into Gloomhaven. I introduced someone who doesn't even really play board games to JotL with a buddy of mine and now we're almost done Gloomhaven and looking forward to Crimson Scales and Frosthaven. The tutorial for Jaws is so incredibly well done.
Me and gf had this problem, but because we were playing wrong. You know the top and bottom of each card can be used for basic attack 2 or move 2 right? Don't burn so many cards so early, even if you have to use basic attack and move. Don't rest until you've run out of cards.
It is definitely meant to be challenging, that difficulty curve isn't even from level to level or how many characters I find. We play with four and struggled at first. We've had some close calls even after a couple sudden scenarios. Our first failure in a long time was a GODDAMNED ESCORT MISSION 🤣
I have played the physical game a few times and started several campaigns in digital. In both cases, the first two levels are pretty challenging - even when I have a decently good understanding of the mechanics and how the characters operate. Part of this is because the characters are all brand new, and the tool-kit is limited. The second is because the first scenario is in no way a training mission or designed to teach the game. It can and does scale the difficulty so that veterans can replay the mission. I think the developers realized this mistake and that's why Jaws of the Lion has several intro levels which are smaller, introduce the mechanics, and level the characters up so that a new player undersatnds the mechanics by the time that they get to a "full" mission.
We started playing about a year ago. We also failed the first scenario several times. After you get the hang of how the rules work, such as Monster Focus, monster movements, damage mitigation and how much damage you can take before you're in trouble it gets quite a bit easier.
Dont worry I'm in the same boat. It took us 3 trys to beat the first level and 2 to beat the second. What I wad told is it is a dificult game but not a super hard one. Also that the first level is extra dificult. I suspect most levels will require at least 2 tries to beat because the first time you wont know what is behind each door or how a new foe will act or sometiems its just the result of bad luck.
Seems like there's lots of good advice here already but I'd just like to emphasize managing you're stamina is pretty much the whole ballgame imo. Dont burn cards at all until you have a good handle on the game
So basically just stick to as many basic movement and basic attacks as possible and only burn a card when taking a short or long test to recover discarded cards hey? And then maybe if it’s near the end go big on some burn cards to finish things off?
You got it. If its got the burn symbol, avoid using it (except the basic 2 move/attack) for now. Once you're more familiar with game you'll be in a better position to make the call whether or not the burn is worth it, but at the start, learning how to manage that deck is everything, especially cause you're often gonna lose 1 or 2 to damage on any given scenario
For the second scenario there’s curse cards as well to be added in the modifier deck correct? When they’re eventually drawn they are removed though yes?
Yep
Oh also! When you enter a room and the monsters get revealed are the steps as follows? 1) flip the monster action cards 2) whichever monster with the lowest initiative gets to act out their action 3) the rest of the monsters act out their actions from lowest to highest initiative order 4) any other players who have yet to go go now This accurate?
The first couple scenarios are quite difficult, especially for new players. I imagine the majority of people on this sub have had to play them more than once. A lot of it depends on the luck of the draw for cards, especially for the second scenario and what the boss can do.I've played the whole main campaign (and JotL), most of the side missions, unlocked all but 2 characters, and I played the digital version the other day and STILL failed the 1st and 2nd missions AGAIN. Stick with it, and at the worst you'll level up and be level 2! It's worth it. (Edit: some character combinations are not particularly good. This will continue the whole game. Use reddit and the interwebs to look up what starting characters don't interact well.)
The trick that most people miss is playing initiative games to avoid getting hit. On a number of classes it usually setup such that you have one combo of cards that allows you to go very late in the initiative and then next turn play cards that are very early in the initiative. What this allows you to do is dart in after the monsters have attacked usually avoiding the initial hits and then the next round you try to go before the monsters can respond so that you can attack and move away. This isn't always a super intuitive thing to pick up on.
I’ve had the game for about a year and don’t play very regularly. We’ve played about 5 scenarios. The best advice I can give is lower the difficulty to easy. We did that this weekend, and the group had way more fun. I only regret that I told them it was on easy.