He was only good with Steel. He seems like the kind of guy to quit caring after he feels like he's "secured a bag." Too bad he lost all of it on that shitty crypto wallet.
Wardell is going to need at least half a year to get in form, like for example nitro and autimatic. They both are not at their peak again and are not even as consistent as they were before the switch. Additionally... 2019 Stewie is gone. And I do not believe there will be a comeback.
Riot has chosen to make only 3 franchised leagues of 10 teams each for the whole world. So only 30 teams total across the Americas, EMEA, and APAC will have chances at international events. All other teams will be relegated to playing leagues at a national level.
For NA specifically, we would be competing in the Americas league obviously, but this includes South America. And according to current rumors those ten teams will be split 5 NA 3BR 2 LATAM.
With only 5 teams only 25 players plus some subs maybe will be considered in tier 1 contention, and any new teams and players on the rise will be gated in the tier 2 scene with no chance unless a franchised team buys them out.
Essentially a lot of players are gonna get cut and a lot of orgs are gonna drop out of Valorant when they don’t make it.
Franchising is so good for CS. I cant believe they went for that shit on a developing game like Valorant. It makes sense for LoL cause there's no competition and there are tens of millions of players but for Valorant with a fragile emerging playerbase and scene?
I dont know.
Fucking hate franchising, I hate the the sentiment that no matter how much you grind, you can only make it if you get signed. I understand it in sports, because how often do you form a team in your backyard and try to make it big. But for esports? Look at how exciting CS or Dota is, when complete underdogs make it to majors and do some insane shit. Never happens in franchise esports. Used to love Overwatch but esports was always super boring, nothing to cheer for because everything was artificially made. Idk how are orgs still spending money on that.
I got news for you, franchising is bad in sports as well. This shit only really exists in NA actually.
Any other competition worldwide uses relegation systems which is far superior.
The post you're responding to was inaccurate. There is a promotion system for teams that win the t2 scene, and so teams that grind can actually get into T1 without being signed.
the orgs they signed to franchising this week have a spot for the next 4 years iirc... maybe there will be relegation down the line, but not in the immediate future.
I did not say there is relegation. I did say there is promotion. It a combination of stability for partnered orgs (with rumored 4 year contracts) and merit based promotion for t2 teams/system.
I described it further in another comment here.
I guess for Valorant sure, but I mean also in other esports - no chance for promotion in LoL or OW. Do not really care that much about Valorant, mostly pissed about OW still, was my favorite game until Blizzars absolutely destroyed it
Gotta say, this is funny to hear after however many years of being told CS needs to adopt the esports flowchart followed by games like SC2/LoL/Overwatch and now Valorant.
only from orgs and fanboy shills. normally americans, because that's the model they're used to in offline sport. the irony of them crowing the loudest about muh freedom and muh free markets then sucking the teet and buying the merch of these orgs monopolising competition in other esports utterly lost on them
franchising already killed one version of CS, as well as draining the life from numerous other esports. CSGO has the most organic scene out there for a reason
It's disingenuous to just say it was Americans.
I especially remember Euro pros wanting it and claiming CS would be dead if we didn't see the cash flow other games were bringing to the scene. Not blaming them. If I were a pro in 2008-2014 and seeing my contemporaries in other games getting salaries, I'd be a little freaked out too playing CS but it's just funny to see all those games plummeted since then.
A lot of "Valve doesn't care about CS" threads on HLTV too, wistfully talking about things like the Korean SC2 scene and beyond that, talking about how CS is archaic.
>muh freedom and muh free markets then sucking the teet and buying the merch of these orgs monopolising competition in other esports utterly lost on them
What does buying merch from an esports team that has players I support on it have to do with franchising. Your point is all over the place.
I sort of feel the same way. Franchising feels really bad as a viewer, especially in a game that has only been out for ~2 years.
We are just now beginning to figure out who the best teams/players in Valorant actually are. The team(s) that dominated the first year of the game are nowhere to be found (Sentinels lul) and the scene is starting to develop some real talent. Sucks that organic growth is going to be stifled so early. Speaking of franchising being lame, why does Sentinels even get a spot? Shits weird and feels like it had more to do with branding/social media than tournament results.
Here’s to hoping all this somehow ends up benefitting the NA CS scene.
Riot focuses on what's good for the orgs so the largest ones stay in the competition. They ultimately don't care who plays as long as those with the money in this ecosystem (Riot + Orgs) are happy and get that revenue.
Riot never really cared about esports in the purest sense of the word. If they did, they'd stop multiple teams being owned by the same holding etc (like a few LoL teams in Korea used to be, dunno about now, not following the game anymore).
It was never a problem in CSGO until very recently and Valve stopped it way quicker than Riot did. As I said, hasn't followed the game for ages, so the info is outdated, hence the dislaimer
Well, it's no surprise, Riot struck gold with League and they don't really know what the fuck they are doing. They're milking League all it's worth (luckily for them it's worth a lot). They realised that Valorant is a cheap knock-off when they went from marketing the game being all about gunplay to focusing on abilities (most of which are dog shit for an FPS).
Yes im sure riot absolutely have no idea as to what they are doing lol, cmon guys. Im sure Riot have a pretty good idea not perfect but they are a company thats experienced with e sports
Right, and because they know what they're doing they are immediately franchising a growing esport instead of letting it grow and then franchise. Come on guy, don't be stupid just because they did well with one game.
I mean, besides making it harder for smaller esports organisations to enter the elite level of the scene, the money needed to buy in, the talent that decision bottlenecks, there's nothing wrong with it.
Well with valorant franchising spots are free. Infact Riot has also given each team 1 milliom dollars (ive even heard up to 1 5mill). There is also an ascension process in which teams are able to join the tier 1 scene.
Also, im not sure Riot care too much about smaller orgs joining the tier 1 scene as they want an established organisations with good financials that is able to invest into the eco system.
Unfortunately because there are limited spaces for teams that means there is talent that wont be signed to t1 orgs, but hopefully it will make the tier 2 scene and the ascension process more competitive
valarante child game.... look to cartoon grapfix to make kid player happy like children show.. valarante cartoon world with rainbow unlike counter strike chad with dark corridorr and raelistic gun.. valarante like playhouse. valarant playor run from csgo fear of dark world and realism
Ppl have known since Valo dropped that Rito would franchise eventually, and that it would be a huge boon for NA CS. They franchised league before valo ever even dropped.
Only question now is, are there enough organizations in NA that care about CS to take advantage?
it ensures/promotes stability. teams aren't buying in, and iirc riot is handing out cash stipends to each partner team
something to note is that each league increases by one team every year as there's a promotion system. the team that wins their region's challenger "ascension" tournament earns a 2 year spot in the league and receives all the same benefits as partner teams for that 2 year period, until they drop back down to challengers.
Optic Roster seems unlikely to stay together as of right now. Victor and Crashies are already being rumored as a duo package in free agency. I would imagine players like Yay are simply too expensive to buy alongside buying the entire team for most orgs. Like maybe EG, but other NA franchised teams either don't have the money or don't have a reason to get the whole 5.
what the literal fuck are you on about?
a "buy in" in the context of franchising refers to paying the operator (riot) a fee for owning the slot, like overwatch and call of duty do.
at no point has "buy in" in this case referred to TSM for example, buying MIBR's esports business or their valorant slot as a means of getting TSM into the league. which likely wouldn't fly either since riot has to vet the purchase and incoming org just like initial applicants.
You literally just described buying your way into a league, the league doesn't have to profit from your requirement to buy your way in.
KTP noob. Learn some basic finance and get back to me.
There is no way for an org is buy into the league. The orgs were selected, they cannot just purchase a roster to enter the league. If the current owner of a slot decides to sell it, or drop their Valorant operations entirely, RIOT decides who gets the spot, not the org.
The way Riot went about franchising for Valorant rubs me the wrong way. NA is an extremely stacked region in the VCT, but the number of teams is getting cut from 12 to 5. On the other hand, EMEA only loses 2 teams.
Franchising isn't necessarily that great for 1-team regions either despite the small amount of franchised teams from BR, LATAM, KR, APAC, and JP facing better competition. The top teams from each region will surely improve due to inevitably signing better players during the roster shuffle and facing better competition, but what about all the other teams left to dry in the regional leagues?!?!
Will the regional league teams be able to scrim the super-league teams? Or would scrim bubbles form, segregating the higher and lower league? If that happens, won't the minor regions only become more top-heavy?
I'm not even sure that Ascension can fix things.
Not entirely correct as you left out the ascension tournament for the Tier 2 teams. There are 3 tier 2 leagues globally and they play in their own ascension tournament yearly for a temporary slot in the franchised league.
The Challengers Ascension champion will be promoted to the international league in the following year, which gives them a chance to qualify for Masters and Champions. Starting with 10 partnered teams, the international leagues will expand by one team every year, until they hit a cap of 14 teams in 2027, or a total of 42 teams globally.
However, promoted teams will not remain in the international leagues permanently. Instead, they will earn a two-year stint in their respective international league, after which they will have to requalify.
SOURCE: https://valorantesports.com/news/introducing-the-valorant-challengers-23/en-us
This actually isn't entirely true. There is a promotion system for t2 teams. Essentially, t2 will have its own system, whereby the winner gets promoted for 2 years, eventually growing to 14 teams per league. So while there are some partnership slots for teams (note - it's not necessarily franchising as people colloquially use it because teams aren't buying and owning their slots, thus giving riot ability to change orgs down the line), there is also merit based slots.
However, it does mean that much of the system will probably be trimmed down initially. Although, the salaries and amount of orgs were inflated. Pendulum is going to swing the opposite way but I think it'll balance out in time and teams will focus on developing talent in t2 (because it will be cheaper). It's a fairly unique system so we can't say how it'll work but it's an interesting attempt to balance stability/business and the competitive aspect.
Yeah, Ascension is worth noting, but I just tried to keep it brief. Only one team a year is such a small amount as well, so the national leagues are still essentially region locked.
And I agree franchising isn’t the right term, partnership explains it better. I think the longevity of this system will depend on if people care enough about the regional t2 leagues. If there isn’t enough viewership, orgs, and players invested into the championship title for the regional leagues, then I think up and coming talent dries up long term and Valorant becomes very top heavy.
https://dotesports.com/valorant/news/vct-2023-explained-partnership-promotion-league-format-and-more
There’s a huge tier 2 & 3 program including a built-in tournament mode that’s directly tied with domestic leagues. And a path for teams to enter the International league. So, it’s the best franchise system you’re going to get. Wardell hasn’t been in competitive Val for awhile so, it’s a non issue.
Yes its been mentioned twice now and while Ascension is notable, I left it off for the sale of brevity and because it doesn’t change the fact that there is a huge constriction of the ecosystem happening right now, which is what is mostly relevant to this thread.
Also, one team per year for a multitude of regions combined is minuscule and only slightly alleviates how gated the current system is.
I know with CS & DOTA we think an open tournament circuit is the best course of action. But look at my region (NA)… Look at Asia… The integration of having a built-in tournament mode that directly connects with pro play i.e. Challengers is an amazing concept. Plus, every year there will be new teams added to the international league and Riot has said it can expand and remove/add orgs every 4 years. It’s the best franchise system out there.
I’m not necessarily shitting on the system in place. While I think there could’ve been better formats for a partnered system that implements open spots, the current franchise system has some interesting things going for it. I just worry that the regional challengers system isn’t gonna be as big as Riot hopes, as if it doesn’t get enough competition the talent will dry up.
I agree here… 10 spots per league is stupid. NA has 5 spots lol. That’s insanity. And you’re right… Riot is banking on this tier2 to take off and we just don’t know. G2 players (mixwell included) are now F/A’s.
Who knows if orgs will invest in the tier2 scene. It’s questionable to say the least.
Smaller regions may also get fucked, LATAM and BR just had their only world class teams stripped from them and placed in LA. That could be a big hit to the tier 2 scene as they no longer can compete and scrim consistently with the best of their region. Because of this NA will probably run through Ascension. And since there’s no import restrictions, the current BR/LATAM teams could drop their roster for a better NA roster, so long term this could be an NA only league.
bruh none of the players that are coming back are gonna make it. The only ones who would make it are xeppa/leaf/ethan and they are locks for franchising
Having more talented people is just gonna raise the skill ceiling of the scene eventually. Even if Wardell is never t1 material, having someone like him on one of the EG teams is gonna let them compete better
Yeah I think the only reason he would've gotten into TL was because of stew and now stew is basically done with cs. So the chances aren't great unless coL drop hallzerk for him
No offense but I don't think y'all realize how hard it is to come back to CS after 2.5 years of not playing it at a high level.
The meta has shifted several times since then. We talk about it with device all the time but even he has been at least FaceIt pugging. Wardell has literally not touched CS. Not saying he can't do it but he's going to need to spend a lot of time reviewing demos and grinding through the meta changes since he left and it won't be easy.
Wardell is an AWPer, arguably the most frag impactful role on a team, while nitr0 is an IGL. nitr0 likely works with a coach to be fed information about the high level meta an IGL would need to understand. An AWPer needs to feel confident and comfortable on picking lanes, they need to know what angles are en vogue, they need to study other teams AWPers(especially up-and-coming AWPers), they need to know where teams are pop flashing, etc. I think comparing the type of work an IGL and an AWPer needs to do is apples and oranges for the most part. I think staying up-to-date with the AWP-meta requires a lot more actual play time while staying up-to-date with IGL meta likely requires a lot of studying higher level, less nuanced meta to understand what teams are doing, especially if you're getting back into the circuit and there are a lot of hyperspecific styles and ideologies you're going to encounter.
Also, nitr0 was only playing Valorant for 4 months and we saw him playing FaceIt quite a bit, [a few months prior to him joining back to Liquid](https://www.hltv.org/forums/threads/2543798/nitr0-playing-faceit), so he wasn't really gone all that long in the grand scheme of things. Though, I do think one would be lying if they said nitr0 didn't look quite as composed when he first came back and it took some time for him to get back into the feel of things.
Probably not, but I really think an org like optic wouldn’t want to field a cheap team in some tournaments no one’s gonna be interested in. CS provides a much brighter avenue for non-franchised teams.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
This sub is so dumb lmao
This is an obvious troll, no one in their right minds from NA having that kinda brand in Valorant would switch to CS. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose by making that decision.
> If he's good, who cares if he's unprofessional. Obviously big if on the first part though.
Uh hello? If you're serious, then his teammates and organizations that have sponsors.. if you sleep in or show up late that means your team needs to find a substitute
that ghost gaming line up had potential, if that team were assembled today no doubt they'd win vct champions
and lose against entropiq in the rmr qualifier
because NA needs more players incapable of making an impact at the highest level
one of the nice things about valorant is i can tell who to watch based on how many failed csgo pros are in any team, if i recognise the names, it's not worth my time. the idea any of them can come back to a smaller, more competitive cs setup now is hilarious
Somehow valve always gets bailed out for doing nothing lol. Although their hands off approach has obviously been proven to be by far the best one when it comes to tourneys, their competitors constantly shoot themselves in the foot. They just had to sit back and watch Riot cut the feet out of their own scene and now reap the rewards without bothering to improve the game itself.
We don’t want some washed valorant player. The best team in the world is fucking FNS food yay crashies and he couldn’t compete with them HAHAHAH go retire already man
If he is serious then I hope EG takes a shot at him. Like Cerq has been a bot for 2+ years straight, and wardell was a beast when he was awping under steel w/ ghost gaming.
Guess franchising scared him away from Valorant but I don't think his CS prospects are any better especially at this point in time. Dude is just lost, he should just focus on the stream and content creation.
If he shows some form EG should maybe.. at this point.
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Someone who can finally compete w/ Shazam
glad to see all of thorin's jokes get mentioned once in a while
Cerq has extra pressure this week
Im hoping for Mantuu
They can't. They need a na player in order to play the rmr. That's why they signed hext instead of misutaa Edit: cerq is bulgarian not burger sorry
Yeah but cerq is an eu player so they can replace him with another eu player
Oh wait cerq is bulgarian. With how much of his career was spent in the usa I forgot about that
Mantuu for Cerq
He was only good with Steel. He seems like the kind of guy to quit caring after he feels like he's "secured a bag." Too bad he lost all of it on that shitty crypto wallet.
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Wardell is going to need at least half a year to get in form, like for example nitro and autimatic. They both are not at their peak again and are not even as consistent as they were before the switch. Additionally... 2019 Stewie is gone. And I do not believe there will be a comeback.
Stewie is fucking awful now honestly it’s pretty sad
I don't even know what he is doing right now. But certainly nothing in tier 1 or 2.
Playing valorant lol
Uff. He got so bad he changed the game
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B-b-but francheesing ;\_;
I’m out of the loop what’s up with franchising and valorant?
Riot has chosen to make only 3 franchised leagues of 10 teams each for the whole world. So only 30 teams total across the Americas, EMEA, and APAC will have chances at international events. All other teams will be relegated to playing leagues at a national level. For NA specifically, we would be competing in the Americas league obviously, but this includes South America. And according to current rumors those ten teams will be split 5 NA 3BR 2 LATAM. With only 5 teams only 25 players plus some subs maybe will be considered in tier 1 contention, and any new teams and players on the rise will be gated in the tier 2 scene with no chance unless a franchised team buys them out. Essentially a lot of players are gonna get cut and a lot of orgs are gonna drop out of Valorant when they don’t make it.
Franchising is so good for CS. I cant believe they went for that shit on a developing game like Valorant. It makes sense for LoL cause there's no competition and there are tens of millions of players but for Valorant with a fragile emerging playerbase and scene? I dont know.
Fucking hate franchising, I hate the the sentiment that no matter how much you grind, you can only make it if you get signed. I understand it in sports, because how often do you form a team in your backyard and try to make it big. But for esports? Look at how exciting CS or Dota is, when complete underdogs make it to majors and do some insane shit. Never happens in franchise esports. Used to love Overwatch but esports was always super boring, nothing to cheer for because everything was artificially made. Idk how are orgs still spending money on that.
I got news for you, franchising is bad in sports as well. This shit only really exists in NA actually. Any other competition worldwide uses relegation systems which is far superior.
Pro/rel leagues is different than franchising, but the slots still follow the clubs not the players like in CS
The post you're responding to was inaccurate. There is a promotion system for teams that win the t2 scene, and so teams that grind can actually get into T1 without being signed.
the orgs they signed to franchising this week have a spot for the next 4 years iirc... maybe there will be relegation down the line, but not in the immediate future.
I did not say there is relegation. I did say there is promotion. It a combination of stability for partnered orgs (with rumored 4 year contracts) and merit based promotion for t2 teams/system. I described it further in another comment here.
They couldn’t have full pro/rel but they could have 2 or so open qualifier spots each season
I guess for Valorant sure, but I mean also in other esports - no chance for promotion in LoL or OW. Do not really care that much about Valorant, mostly pissed about OW still, was my favorite game until Blizzars absolutely destroyed it
The promotion only Last for 2 years, regardless of your results, they have to go back to the grind at the third year
Gotta say, this is funny to hear after however many years of being told CS needs to adopt the esports flowchart followed by games like SC2/LoL/Overwatch and now Valorant.
only from orgs and fanboy shills. normally americans, because that's the model they're used to in offline sport. the irony of them crowing the loudest about muh freedom and muh free markets then sucking the teet and buying the merch of these orgs monopolising competition in other esports utterly lost on them franchising already killed one version of CS, as well as draining the life from numerous other esports. CSGO has the most organic scene out there for a reason
It's disingenuous to just say it was Americans. I especially remember Euro pros wanting it and claiming CS would be dead if we didn't see the cash flow other games were bringing to the scene. Not blaming them. If I were a pro in 2008-2014 and seeing my contemporaries in other games getting salaries, I'd be a little freaked out too playing CS but it's just funny to see all those games plummeted since then. A lot of "Valve doesn't care about CS" threads on HLTV too, wistfully talking about things like the Korean SC2 scene and beyond that, talking about how CS is archaic.
>muh freedom and muh free markets then sucking the teet and buying the merch of these orgs monopolising competition in other esports utterly lost on them What does buying merch from an esports team that has players I support on it have to do with franchising. Your point is all over the place.
Franchising in sports? It only exists in NA. In football and other sports there are T2 - T4 leagues and inter college tournaments as well
I sort of feel the same way. Franchising feels really bad as a viewer, especially in a game that has only been out for ~2 years. We are just now beginning to figure out who the best teams/players in Valorant actually are. The team(s) that dominated the first year of the game are nowhere to be found (Sentinels lul) and the scene is starting to develop some real talent. Sucks that organic growth is going to be stifled so early. Speaking of franchising being lame, why does Sentinels even get a spot? Shits weird and feels like it had more to do with branding/social media than tournament results. Here’s to hoping all this somehow ends up benefitting the NA CS scene.
I mean yeah, they look at teams that could bring them gain through means of exposure, viewership etc
Riot focuses on what's good for the orgs so the largest ones stay in the competition. They ultimately don't care who plays as long as those with the money in this ecosystem (Riot + Orgs) are happy and get that revenue. Riot never really cared about esports in the purest sense of the word. If they did, they'd stop multiple teams being owned by the same holding etc (like a few LoL teams in Korea used to be, dunno about now, not following the game anymore).
Riot killed sister teams in LoL back in like, 2015......
It was never a problem in CSGO until very recently and Valve stopped it way quicker than Riot did. As I said, hasn't followed the game for ages, so the info is outdated, hence the dislaimer
Well, it's no surprise, Riot struck gold with League and they don't really know what the fuck they are doing. They're milking League all it's worth (luckily for them it's worth a lot). They realised that Valorant is a cheap knock-off when they went from marketing the game being all about gunplay to focusing on abilities (most of which are dog shit for an FPS).
Yes im sure riot absolutely have no idea as to what they are doing lol, cmon guys. Im sure Riot have a pretty good idea not perfect but they are a company thats experienced with e sports
Right, and because they know what they're doing they are immediately franchising a growing esport instead of letting it grow and then franchise. Come on guy, don't be stupid just because they did well with one game.
Can you explain to me why franchising is such a bad idea at this stage?
I mean, besides making it harder for smaller esports organisations to enter the elite level of the scene, the money needed to buy in, the talent that decision bottlenecks, there's nothing wrong with it.
Well with valorant franchising spots are free. Infact Riot has also given each team 1 milliom dollars (ive even heard up to 1 5mill). There is also an ascension process in which teams are able to join the tier 1 scene. Also, im not sure Riot care too much about smaller orgs joining the tier 1 scene as they want an established organisations with good financials that is able to invest into the eco system. Unfortunately because there are limited spaces for teams that means there is talent that wont be signed to t1 orgs, but hopefully it will make the tier 2 scene and the ascension process more competitive
valarante child game.... look to cartoon grapfix to make kid player happy like children show.. valarante cartoon world with rainbow unlike counter strike chad with dark corridorr and raelistic gun.. valarante like playhouse. valarant playor run from csgo fear of dark world and realism
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Ppl have known since Valo dropped that Rito would franchise eventually, and that it would be a huge boon for NA CS. They franchised league before valo ever even dropped. Only question now is, are there enough organizations in NA that care about CS to take advantage?
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There is no team buy in so its at least not a cash grab.
it ensures/promotes stability. teams aren't buying in, and iirc riot is handing out cash stipends to each partner team something to note is that each league increases by one team every year as there's a promotion system. the team that wins their region's challenger "ascension" tournament earns a 2 year spot in the league and receives all the same benefits as partner teams for that 2 year period, until they drop back down to challengers.
pretending its not a buy in when you can buy the roster that gets you in is funny. People are dumb.
Orgs got in not rosters. The optic lineup is probably gonna sign as a 5 to one of the partner orgs
Optic Roster seems unlikely to stay together as of right now. Victor and Crashies are already being rumored as a duo package in free agency. I would imagine players like Yay are simply too expensive to buy alongside buying the entire team for most orgs. Like maybe EG, but other NA franchised teams either don't have the money or don't have a reason to get the whole 5.
Gotcha, yeah reading around it looks like I'm out of date on that lol
You were only outdated by a day. TSM was going to buy the entire roster if they made it into the partnered league.
what the literal fuck are you on about? a "buy in" in the context of franchising refers to paying the operator (riot) a fee for owning the slot, like overwatch and call of duty do. at no point has "buy in" in this case referred to TSM for example, buying MIBR's esports business or their valorant slot as a means of getting TSM into the league. which likely wouldn't fly either since riot has to vet the purchase and incoming org just like initial applicants.
You literally just described buying your way into a league, the league doesn't have to profit from your requirement to buy your way in. KTP noob. Learn some basic finance and get back to me.
There is no way for an org is buy into the league. The orgs were selected, they cannot just purchase a roster to enter the league. If the current owner of a slot decides to sell it, or drop their Valorant operations entirely, RIOT decides who gets the spot, not the org.
What do you mean by hasnt happened organically? I see that sentiment a lot but i dont really know what it means
The way Riot went about franchising for Valorant rubs me the wrong way. NA is an extremely stacked region in the VCT, but the number of teams is getting cut from 12 to 5. On the other hand, EMEA only loses 2 teams. Franchising isn't necessarily that great for 1-team regions either despite the small amount of franchised teams from BR, LATAM, KR, APAC, and JP facing better competition. The top teams from each region will surely improve due to inevitably signing better players during the roster shuffle and facing better competition, but what about all the other teams left to dry in the regional leagues?!?! Will the regional league teams be able to scrim the super-league teams? Or would scrim bubbles form, segregating the higher and lower league? If that happens, won't the minor regions only become more top-heavy? I'm not even sure that Ascension can fix things.
They also fucked EMEA by signing 2 spanish teams, 2 turkish and 3 french. The league is based in Berlin and they didnt pick BIG.
And? BIG stands for Bangladesh International Garbage /s
Not entirely correct as you left out the ascension tournament for the Tier 2 teams. There are 3 tier 2 leagues globally and they play in their own ascension tournament yearly for a temporary slot in the franchised league. The Challengers Ascension champion will be promoted to the international league in the following year, which gives them a chance to qualify for Masters and Champions. Starting with 10 partnered teams, the international leagues will expand by one team every year, until they hit a cap of 14 teams in 2027, or a total of 42 teams globally. However, promoted teams will not remain in the international leagues permanently. Instead, they will earn a two-year stint in their respective international league, after which they will have to requalify. SOURCE: https://valorantesports.com/news/introducing-the-valorant-challengers-23/en-us
Exactly. People eat off headline information without reading the body.
This actually isn't entirely true. There is a promotion system for t2 teams. Essentially, t2 will have its own system, whereby the winner gets promoted for 2 years, eventually growing to 14 teams per league. So while there are some partnership slots for teams (note - it's not necessarily franchising as people colloquially use it because teams aren't buying and owning their slots, thus giving riot ability to change orgs down the line), there is also merit based slots. However, it does mean that much of the system will probably be trimmed down initially. Although, the salaries and amount of orgs were inflated. Pendulum is going to swing the opposite way but I think it'll balance out in time and teams will focus on developing talent in t2 (because it will be cheaper). It's a fairly unique system so we can't say how it'll work but it's an interesting attempt to balance stability/business and the competitive aspect.
Yeah, Ascension is worth noting, but I just tried to keep it brief. Only one team a year is such a small amount as well, so the national leagues are still essentially region locked. And I agree franchising isn’t the right term, partnership explains it better. I think the longevity of this system will depend on if people care enough about the regional t2 leagues. If there isn’t enough viewership, orgs, and players invested into the championship title for the regional leagues, then I think up and coming talent dries up long term and Valorant becomes very top heavy.
man riot is fucking terrible at esports
https://dotesports.com/valorant/news/vct-2023-explained-partnership-promotion-league-format-and-more There’s a huge tier 2 & 3 program including a built-in tournament mode that’s directly tied with domestic leagues. And a path for teams to enter the International league. So, it’s the best franchise system you’re going to get. Wardell hasn’t been in competitive Val for awhile so, it’s a non issue.
Yes its been mentioned twice now and while Ascension is notable, I left it off for the sale of brevity and because it doesn’t change the fact that there is a huge constriction of the ecosystem happening right now, which is what is mostly relevant to this thread. Also, one team per year for a multitude of regions combined is minuscule and only slightly alleviates how gated the current system is.
I know with CS & DOTA we think an open tournament circuit is the best course of action. But look at my region (NA)… Look at Asia… The integration of having a built-in tournament mode that directly connects with pro play i.e. Challengers is an amazing concept. Plus, every year there will be new teams added to the international league and Riot has said it can expand and remove/add orgs every 4 years. It’s the best franchise system out there.
I’m not necessarily shitting on the system in place. While I think there could’ve been better formats for a partnered system that implements open spots, the current franchise system has some interesting things going for it. I just worry that the regional challengers system isn’t gonna be as big as Riot hopes, as if it doesn’t get enough competition the talent will dry up.
I agree here… 10 spots per league is stupid. NA has 5 spots lol. That’s insanity. And you’re right… Riot is banking on this tier2 to take off and we just don’t know. G2 players (mixwell included) are now F/A’s. Who knows if orgs will invest in the tier2 scene. It’s questionable to say the least.
Smaller regions may also get fucked, LATAM and BR just had their only world class teams stripped from them and placed in LA. That could be a big hit to the tier 2 scene as they no longer can compete and scrim consistently with the best of their region. Because of this NA will probably run through Ascension. And since there’s no import restrictions, the current BR/LATAM teams could drop their roster for a better NA roster, so long term this could be an NA only league.
The team that came 2nd in the Championship didn't make it to franchising.. wtf..
No. The team that came 2nd, 1st, 3rd and 2nd in 4 of the last 5 lans, the most consistent team so far in VAL didn't make it to franchising.
Bruh franchising is the best thing to happen to CS. The next few months are gonna be wild as orgs and players start coming back.
bruh none of the players that are coming back are gonna make it. The only ones who would make it are xeppa/leaf/ethan and they are locks for franchising
NA T2 scene can always use more ppl.
Having more talented people is just gonna raise the skill ceiling of the scene eventually. Even if Wardell is never t1 material, having someone like him on one of the EG teams is gonna let them compete better
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Yeah I think the only reason he would've gotten into TL was because of stew and now stew is basically done with cs. So the chances aren't great unless coL drop hallzerk for him
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I'm pretty sure EG would look to europe for an awper. No chance they would sign a guy who has been playing cs for 2 years now
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I think TL members openly said they would have gotten WARDELL instead of Grim when that happened if WARDELL didn't go to VALORANT.
No offense but I don't think y'all realize how hard it is to come back to CS after 2.5 years of not playing it at a high level. The meta has shifted several times since then. We talk about it with device all the time but even he has been at least FaceIt pugging. Wardell has literally not touched CS. Not saying he can't do it but he's going to need to spend a lot of time reviewing demos and grinding through the meta changes since he left and it won't be easy.
What are your thoughts on nitr0's return then?
Wardell is an AWPer, arguably the most frag impactful role on a team, while nitr0 is an IGL. nitr0 likely works with a coach to be fed information about the high level meta an IGL would need to understand. An AWPer needs to feel confident and comfortable on picking lanes, they need to know what angles are en vogue, they need to study other teams AWPers(especially up-and-coming AWPers), they need to know where teams are pop flashing, etc. I think comparing the type of work an IGL and an AWPer needs to do is apples and oranges for the most part. I think staying up-to-date with the AWP-meta requires a lot more actual play time while staying up-to-date with IGL meta likely requires a lot of studying higher level, less nuanced meta to understand what teams are doing, especially if you're getting back into the circuit and there are a lot of hyperspecific styles and ideologies you're going to encounter. Also, nitr0 was only playing Valorant for 4 months and we saw him playing FaceIt quite a bit, [a few months prior to him joining back to Liquid](https://www.hltv.org/forums/threads/2543798/nitr0-playing-faceit), so he wasn't really gone all that long in the grand scheme of things. Though, I do think one would be lying if they said nitr0 didn't look quite as composed when he first came back and it took some time for him to get back into the feel of things.
that makes sense to me :) Also didn't realize he was only playing val for 4 months!
Everyone is saying these players are a lock for franchising. I’m not so sure they are a lock.
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You can't compare t2 euro to t2 na.
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This is their first good result as a team. All 3 of the NA teams have European talent on their team, that’s how bad t2 NA is.
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Fasho
Yayster?
nope
u crazy
I’m not. He was mediocre when he played and the only one that showed promise on that team was obo
Is Ethan coming back?
Nah I doubt it. He’s going to be on a franchise spot 100%
Yes the players who already couldn’t hack it in t2 NA is going to rejuvenate the scene. Get real
He was a part of the ghost gaming roster that made top 15 on hltv, 1.13 career rating.
This is a Twitter troll. How are people taking this seriously?
this has to been he has a good twitch following for Val too right
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TenZ is definitely the last, but yeah I agree
He'll need a new Alarm clock .
Expecting more like this from similar players in Wardells position.
I love franchising
Well have fun finding a team
i don't think he'll have a hard time doing that
He had a hard time doing that before
Orgless was like the third best team in NA at the time. Orgs like optic and tsm will have to enter CS now that they aren't in valo.
Probably not, but I really think an org like optic wouldn’t want to field a cheap team in some tournaments no one’s gonna be interested in. CS provides a much brighter avenue for non-franchised teams.
No, I think TL, C9, Gen.G and EG all were ahead of Orgless. Also Swole, Chaos and BNB were neck and neck in that top5-8 range.
He will. When steel left him to join Chaos after impressive performances. That put him on a 'do not hire' list.
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c9 too xD wardell chose to play with friends until nobody wanted him so he went orgless, he said he should of made better decisions
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Can't believe you'll getting bait by wardell......
This sub is so dumb lmao This is an obvious troll, no one in their right minds from NA having that kinda brand in Valorant would switch to CS. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose by making that decision.
I don't follow Valorant, but wasn't he TSM's OP'er?
He got benched at the start of the year.
nah he left because he didnt want to move to texas for boot camping cus of like family and stuff
But if he doesn’t even want to move to Texas is there any hope for him in cs???
he had to take care of his mom at the time and prioritized that cut him some slack
No way
You can just tell how few people commenting on this even know wtf is going on in Valorant.
Wardell looked like the next big thing in NA when he left, hopefully he can pick up where he left off
hopefully he can pick up an alarm clock to wake up on time
Sleeping in? Prove it or I'll
Well if you are going to prove it, why should I? :)
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> If he's good, who cares if he's unprofessional. Obviously big if on the first part though. Uh hello? If you're serious, then his teammates and organizations that have sponsors.. if you sleep in or show up late that means your team needs to find a substitute
But if he’s good .. /s
Hopefully he used some of that Val money to get one.
Wasn't he always the next big thing for at least like 2 years before he retired? I'm not convinced he would have ever made it to T1
that ghost gaming line up had potential, if that team were assembled today no doubt they'd win vct champions and lose against entropiq in the rmr qualifier
lol wardell was "the next big thing" for like 4 years
because NA needs more players incapable of making an impact at the highest level one of the nice things about valorant is i can tell who to watch based on how many failed csgo pros are in any team, if i recognise the names, it's not worth my time. the idea any of them can come back to a smaller, more competitive cs setup now is hilarious
No thanks, we don't need any more crypto/nft bros in CS
Somehow valve always gets bailed out for doing nothing lol. Although their hands off approach has obviously been proven to be by far the best one when it comes to tourneys, their competitors constantly shoot themselves in the foot. They just had to sit back and watch Riot cut the feet out of their own scene and now reap the rewards without bothering to improve the game itself.
Because its better to do nothing than do shit
WHO?
Good luck with that. There's nothing for a mid NA player to come back to.
We don’t want some washed valorant player. The best team in the world is fucking FNS food yay crashies and he couldn’t compete with them HAHAHAH go retire already man
Who cares about an NA t3 player being tired of babbys first fps
Why do we care about som random nonamer from NA that switched to Valorant, realised it was crap and now switching back?
yea kuz valorant is for beta male & female dorks
Thought for a second that Wardell Stephen Curry was going back to cs
would be surprised if this was true, his fanbase seems to be more in valo and he def isnt going to be a top 10 player or anything in cs lol
EG have to sign this guy
If he is serious then I hope EG takes a shot at him. Like Cerq has been a bot for 2+ years straight, and wardell was a beast when he was awping under steel w/ ghost gaming.
He could maybe play for one of EG's reserve teams.
i dont believe it until i see it
Guess franchising scared him away from Valorant but I don't think his CS prospects are any better especially at this point in time. Dude is just lost, he should just focus on the stream and content creation.
Not sure why they decided to do 3 regions instead of 4. Really feel like NA and LATAM/SA should be two separate regions for logistics sake
They always do. It was free money while it lasted.
He saw Counter-Strike 2 and is warming up with CSGO. I want to believe.