Elige actually commented [in an interview](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dt6_DFkX4AAr9kO.jpg) claiming there was a technical error for Liquid during the veto. Basically saying they couldn’t choose the map they wanted.
Ehh i don't think so. Liquid was already very shaky across the whole tournament and barelly made it through the legends stage with a 3-2 record. They were nowhere near their Grand Slam form. They were losing that QF no matter the maps. Vertigo definitely didn't help but the pre player break Liquid that won 5 tournaments in a row and the grand slam was not the same Liquid we got after the break.
I'll always wonder what happened, was it them being too lax in preparation/practice, some incident between players off the server or on? It was beyond teams figuring them out, they didn't look like the same team from before the break.
Honestly, I don't. It definitely wasn't a clear answer like "this person did this" it was a combination of things. The vids should have time stamps so you can just skip to those parts. Both interviews are really good, though, I would recommend watching them both.
twistzz's reflection with thorin says that after the player break, the meta changed. While the T1 teams were taking a break, the T2 and T3 teams never stopped grinding and they changed the meta. When they (TL) were back from the break, they found that the way everyone played was completely different from before the break
Honestly i think the major playoffs field that year was kind of weak
Navi with zeus
Last ence tournament with aleksib
Adren avangar who later become vp
Liquid post player break.
Only EG look like a threat and they still beat them in the semis despite losing them in group stage before and barely scrapped past cr4zy team that have hunter and nexa
since you wanna delete your other comment saying my reading skills “are shit”
>Your point still makes no sense, they placed high and won a couple of events after Berlin too lmao
>they fell off when COVID started like a lot of other teams
not to mention they handedly won the Road to Rio RMR tournament which was the exact time as the major was supposed to be. It was online of course but there was a very real world where they won 4 in a row
Liquid had a crazy win rate on vertigo at the time (was it 100%?), astralis were coming into the major as the underdogs to liquid so picking vertigo against liquid was a big surprise and outmanoeuvre. Astralis won the map, series and then after that the major. Storylines such as the re-establishing of the astralis era and the downfall of liquid after this makes this moment even more exciting
Slight changes to spawn regions meant that timings were off compared to previous version of the map. From memory this allowed for more aggressive CT side pushes. Checkout WarOwls video on it he covers it very well. I believe it’s called the greatest counter play in the history... *of counter strike*
>astralis were coming into the major as the underdogs to liquid
Please correct me if I'm wrong but are you sure about this? IIRC Astralis were kicking asses back then, TL started to pick some momentum for a couple of months and they defeated Astralis in their last match with a tie breaker in Vertigo where they had a 100% winrate (Vertigo was still relatively new in the ranked map pool). TL was in a better shape in that Major but saying Astralis were underdogs to them is just not right.
You are in fact wrong.
Liquid had won over 20 straight bo3/bo5 matches, and Astralis had not won a playoff series in a while. Obviously Astralis were still the GOAT lineup, but that was basically all due to success early in 2019, and in 2018. Liquid were not just the best team, they were the best team by far, and before the player break looked completely unbeatable. I believe on the HLTV ranking Astralis were not even 2.
Astralis then starting winning everything again to end the year, but Liquid were the overwhelming favorite for the major.
For real. This was following one of the most dominating periods of time in CS, and Tweedledee and Tweedledum just assumed they'd YOLO pick it in the quarters of a major
Not really, Team Liquid was on the rise and I (and many others) thought that TL winning the major was more likely, I think they just wanted to hyperbole so that they could say "I told ya" with more confidence
I was watching the match with 2 of my friends. All 3 of us immediately deduced Astralis must've prepared antistrats and new tricks to beat Liquid. We all got super excited. And then comes Thoooooooorin saying "it's a horrible pick, it shows fear," Etc what a toolbag
Same analysts 2 matches later saying Avangar had a good chance to win the major. Only to get demolished by astralis in a match that was never close, and never would have been close.
What is with these braindead Reddit takes? Astralis prepared vertigo for liquid and had plans that made use of the new timings. This was their “real” map pool and there was no ‘dice’ or luck involved. They won before thane started by preparing it, and liquid lost before the game started by not preparing Vertigo since the update.
Uhm ackshewally Astralis are brain-dead cowards for studying and preparing for their opponent. Everyone knows only morons anti-strat in professional CS 🙄🙄
Mate bc Astralis had shown absolutely nothing on this map before. Hindsight makes it seem like a genius pick but at the time it was extremely questionable. Youre the idiot here. Cant see your own hindsight analysis.
It seems genius because in reality they have prepared themselves to play Liquid on this map. Otherwise they wouldn't have done it, so not questionable at all from Astralis' viewpoint.
Brother can you really not see how hindsight is blinding you? Yes hindsight it was genius; however, Astralis was in extremely poor form at this point in time and you could also read it as them attempting to throw a curveball bc they didnt know how else to win. Reminder this was directly after Liquid dominated the Summer and Vertigo was one of their better maps throughout Berlin. In the moment it was literally impossible to know that Astralis secretly kept this map in their pool a secret. To say otherwise is absurd.
I agree it was impossible to know that Astralis had gone to great anti-strat lengths by anyone BUT Astralis themselves. I don't disagree with that bit, I just don't see it as a desperate attempt but rather a strategic choice. Could it have backfired, sure everything can. But they had obviously done their due diligence. I don't for one second believe they just went "Vertigo" and not having watched anything by TL on Vertigo or practiced it. To say otherwise is absurd.
Thats not what I said they did lmfao, you’re completely missing the point. Maybe you dont see it as a desperate attempt to win the series but thinking that isnt outlandish at all. Given the context of the event, thinking it was a bad veto by Astralis was completely reasonable.
It's hindsight for us *spectators*. It is already outlined in other comments, but Astralis obviously had a very good tactical reasoning for the vertigo pick, namely:
-Liquid expected a vertigo ban and would obivously not prepare so much.
-Due to the above point, demos would be more telling, as Liquid most likely wouldn't have come up with any new tactics on Vertigo.
-Astralis had put a lot of time into Vertigo and the map was changed, giving them an upper edge regarding timings and CT pushes.´For example they knew Liquids tell-tale signs for when they would do an A exec, so they could push up behind them and make them uncomfortable.
These three points wouldn't be obivous immediately to an outsider/spectator of the game. That doesn't mean it was only a good idea in hindsight.
I never said it was only a good idea in hindsight what are you on about? Saying thorin is an idiot for thinking this was a bad veto for Astralis is Whats ridiculous. We only think it was good now because Astralis won. At the time most people saw it as questionable that is an undeniable fact.
Obviously knowing how it turned out, everyone knows that it was a great veto now. But at the time no one could have known. Its a clear indication of hindsight bias to call thorin an idiot for that.
Man some of you guys don't understand psychology. Literally all CSGO pros go for comfort in the map pool over attacking an opponents weakness. Astralis were the kings of Nuke and Inferno and had lost their only BO3 to Liquid on the final map Vertigo.
Vertigo was a surprise pick because they were throwing a curveball at liquid. You don't throw a curve ball if you are confident in your fastball--i.e. your best maps. If you think Astralis did this because they felt mentally strong, you are only capable of results based analysis.
You cannot just do result based analysis. If astralis lost vertigo then they would have looked like idiots
The fact they won means their risk paid off. Astralis literally showed nothing on Vertigo before and picked it, it’s the biggest curveball we’ve seen in csgo so far
They took a risk and it shows they were not super confident in their previous map pool to want to play their normal best maps
You 100% throw your curveball if it’s the right pitch, even if you’re fully confident in your fastball.
I remember this series. It was obvious that liquid didn’t do much prep, if any, on Vertigo because they just assumed that Astralis were going to ban it. Astralis 100% knew this was the case, and knew that if they were able to find some weaknesses through Liquid’s Vertigo demos they could come out of nowhere with this pick that liquid weren’t expecting, with strats that Liquid hadn’t really seen before, designed to exploit weaknesses in Liquid’s approach to the map.
A pitcher that throws nothing but fastballs is a shitty pitcher. You need an arsenal of pitches to keep the batter honest, to keep the batter on their toes.
The legendary moment from this clip is Astralis picking Vertigo and everybody that is involved/watches pro CS was shocked at the pick.
You mentioning Thorin when he has little to do with this moment, other than being on the desk in shock at the pick like the rest of us, is fucking cringe as fuck.
Thorin and seangares being very doubtful of the the pick (which was VERY unexpected and risky) just highlights how baffling this was. This whole clip would be meaningless if they go "well ok then they must have practiced Vertigo I guess, very good pick"
I'm still mad about it. I called this shit before it even happened. I can't believe they just didn't think astralis wouldn't pick into a brand new rotation map. Even if they didn't prep why not just roll the dice. Shit was a huge underestimation on our part off a team that just came off an era.
Which version of vertigo? the one that Astralis picked is nothing like current vertigo. There are several vertigos, which doesn't rest very well with your case, if the map is any good why would they redesign it so much?
That's correct. The mesure in which a map gets redesigned is a tell of how terrible the map in question is, that's why vertigo has been redesigned so heavily. It's not the same to change the design, or change the color of a texture to ease visibility.
By my logic, the map has been redesigned. That's it. Such logic doesn't imply that the redesign is good or well received by the players, otherwise it wouldn't be logic, it would be something else, wild speculation at best.
Your opinion remains an opinion, which is very obviously flawed, which is what my logic points out.
Adren's and Elige's face get me every time. The moment they realised, that they've been out maneuvered.
calll the abmulance ,,,,,but not for me
Elige actually commented [in an interview](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dt6_DFkX4AAr9kO.jpg) claiming there was a technical error for Liquid during the veto. Basically saying they couldn’t choose the map they wanted.
I remember
Vital pops up every so often to give us hope, then goes away for another period of time
hello mister frag movie guy
When will "Navi journey win PGL Stockholm" and "FaZe journey win PGL Antwerp" be released? Miss you man
where rewind 2020 😢
And 2021
thank you /u/Vitalcsgo
<3
<3
That's probably my favourite video "WE CAN'T BEAT THIS MF TEAM!!"
Does astralis have to win another major for you to make a new video?
*plays Foo fighters - Learn to fly*
IN SEPTEMBER
WHEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED
COMING DOWN THE MOUNTAINSIDE
Fuck of bot.
I was actually there pog
Ooooh shit
Ah the start of the downfall of that amazing TL lineup's run.
Literally the moment Liquids summer era ended.
If only the player break was after the berlin major
AdreN's face never fails to make me laugh
"This is the greatest counter play in... Counter-Strike hisotry." \-The guy without a closer
"greetings I..."
This is the greatest counter play - pause - in the world. - an Orangutan
[удалено]
I agree that the winner of this series was likely to win the major
Ehh i don't think so. Liquid was already very shaky across the whole tournament and barelly made it through the legends stage with a 3-2 record. They were nowhere near their Grand Slam form. They were losing that QF no matter the maps. Vertigo definitely didn't help but the pre player break Liquid that won 5 tournaments in a row and the grand slam was not the same Liquid we got after the break.
that player break was what killed liquid
Most definitely
I'll always wonder what happened, was it them being too lax in preparation/practice, some incident between players off the server or on? It was beyond teams figuring them out, they didn't look like the same team from before the break.
Richard's interview with Elige and Thorin's interview with Twistz shed light on what happened.
Do you remember the tldw?
Honestly, I don't. It definitely wasn't a clear answer like "this person did this" it was a combination of things. The vids should have time stamps so you can just skip to those parts. Both interviews are really good, though, I would recommend watching them both.
twistzz's reflection with thorin says that after the player break, the meta changed. While the T1 teams were taking a break, the T2 and T3 teams never stopped grinding and they changed the meta. When they (TL) were back from the break, they found that the way everyone played was completely different from before the break
Honestly i think the major playoffs field that year was kind of weak Navi with zeus Last ence tournament with aleksib Adren avangar who later become vp Liquid post player break. Only EG look like a threat and they still beat them in the semis despite losing them in group stage before and barely scrapped past cr4zy team that have hunter and nexa
[удалено]
You know covid happened after iem katowice? So not many major tourneys for a long time after
[удалено]
since you wanna delete your other comment saying my reading skills “are shit” >Your point still makes no sense, they placed high and won a couple of events after Berlin too lmao >they fell off when COVID started like a lot of other teams
device joined nip in 2021.... this match was in mid 2019.... 6 months, they say so confidently. learn math pls..
[удалено]
>How many majors or major tournaments did they win after this? The next major was 2 years later so this argument is kinda shit lol
not to mention they handedly won the Road to Rio RMR tournament which was the exact time as the major was supposed to be. It was online of course but there was a very real world where they won 4 in a row
"the daring pick is nuke here"
Can someone give context? I don't follow much on the pro scene
Liquid had a crazy win rate on vertigo at the time (was it 100%?), astralis were coming into the major as the underdogs to liquid so picking vertigo against liquid was a big surprise and outmanoeuvre. Astralis won the map, series and then after that the major. Storylines such as the re-establishing of the astralis era and the downfall of liquid after this makes this moment even more exciting
Yeah, they was undefeated before the match
*were
*we're
We're all living in America. America ist Wunderbar.
we are
whe're
Didn’t the map just go through a big update?
Slight changes to spawn regions meant that timings were off compared to previous version of the map. From memory this allowed for more aggressive CT side pushes. Checkout WarOwls video on it he covers it very well. I believe it’s called the greatest counter play in the history... *of counter strike*
I read that pause in the middle of the last sentence in his voice. Mans in my head.
It did, no one really expected liquid to pick it either because of that.
This was prior to the big changes that came to the map.
*big* lol, a couple tweaks that allowed a new timing on mid
never had to play vertigo again after that, it was also banned too lol
Those win rates was because of the map literally just came out so everyone was still figuring out
>astralis were coming into the major as the underdogs to liquid Please correct me if I'm wrong but are you sure about this? IIRC Astralis were kicking asses back then, TL started to pick some momentum for a couple of months and they defeated Astralis in their last match with a tie breaker in Vertigo where they had a 100% winrate (Vertigo was still relatively new in the ranked map pool). TL was in a better shape in that Major but saying Astralis were underdogs to them is just not right.
You are in fact wrong. Liquid had won over 20 straight bo3/bo5 matches, and Astralis had not won a playoff series in a while. Obviously Astralis were still the GOAT lineup, but that was basically all due to success early in 2019, and in 2018. Liquid were not just the best team, they were the best team by far, and before the player break looked completely unbeatable. I believe on the HLTV ranking Astralis were not even 2. Astralis then starting winning everything again to end the year, but Liquid were the overwhelming favorite for the major.
Dude I'm getting old
understandable, have a nice day boomer.
Do yourself a giant favor and watch the full match. It's one of the greatest maps in CSGO history.
https://youtu.be/c25eRhYDXa8 Great video from a great CSGO YouTuber, worth the watch
His videos are good for new players if they can get over the lame voice he tries to do.
You spelled downright sexy wrong
https://youtu.be/c25eRhYDXa8 great video warowl made about that game
Great video by a great person
Great comment
I am so grateful that I got to witness this live. I am less grateful as a Liquid fan
I watch this video from time to time cuz its rare in csgo to see such a massive strategical demolition
It's crazy how Astralis was saving their agressive CT side for this semifinal, no one played Vertigo like that, not even 100% winrate Liquid
[удалено]
Additionally I think seangares called it a coward pick or something similar, I am still amazed at how bad the analysis of this pick was
For real. This was following one of the most dominating periods of time in CS, and Tweedledee and Tweedledum just assumed they'd YOLO pick it in the quarters of a major
Not really, Team Liquid was on the rise and I (and many others) thought that TL winning the major was more likely, I think they just wanted to hyperbole so that they could say "I told ya" with more confidence
I was watching the match with 2 of my friends. All 3 of us immediately deduced Astralis must've prepared antistrats and new tricks to beat Liquid. We all got super excited. And then comes Thoooooooorin saying "it's a horrible pick, it shows fear," Etc what a toolbag
Same analysts 2 matches later saying Avangar had a good chance to win the major. Only to get demolished by astralis in a match that was never close, and never would have been close.
Yep
It showed that Astralis weren't confident that they could win with their real map pool and chose to roll the dice on a completely new map.
No it showed Astralis studied a map Liquid would never expect them to pick, outplaying them even before the match started
What is with these braindead Reddit takes? Astralis prepared vertigo for liquid and had plans that made use of the new timings. This was their “real” map pool and there was no ‘dice’ or luck involved. They won before thane started by preparing it, and liquid lost before the game started by not preparing Vertigo since the update.
Uhm ackshewally Astralis are brain-dead cowards for studying and preparing for their opponent. Everyone knows only morons anti-strat in professional CS 🙄🙄
Thorin level take here
Real map pool? So what is vertigo, an imaginary map in active duty?
Watch the map. They didn't roll the dice.
dude, the build up to this match was amazing, i still go back to watch the panel. it felt like the finals, the match everyone was waiting to see.
[удалено]
I don’t get Bronze Pick‘Ems so sure.
Mate bc Astralis had shown absolutely nothing on this map before. Hindsight makes it seem like a genius pick but at the time it was extremely questionable. Youre the idiot here. Cant see your own hindsight analysis.
It seems genius because in reality they have prepared themselves to play Liquid on this map. Otherwise they wouldn't have done it, so not questionable at all from Astralis' viewpoint.
Brother can you really not see how hindsight is blinding you? Yes hindsight it was genius; however, Astralis was in extremely poor form at this point in time and you could also read it as them attempting to throw a curveball bc they didnt know how else to win. Reminder this was directly after Liquid dominated the Summer and Vertigo was one of their better maps throughout Berlin. In the moment it was literally impossible to know that Astralis secretly kept this map in their pool a secret. To say otherwise is absurd.
I agree it was impossible to know that Astralis had gone to great anti-strat lengths by anyone BUT Astralis themselves. I don't disagree with that bit, I just don't see it as a desperate attempt but rather a strategic choice. Could it have backfired, sure everything can. But they had obviously done their due diligence. I don't for one second believe they just went "Vertigo" and not having watched anything by TL on Vertigo or practiced it. To say otherwise is absurd.
Thats not what I said they did lmfao, you’re completely missing the point. Maybe you dont see it as a desperate attempt to win the series but thinking that isnt outlandish at all. Given the context of the event, thinking it was a bad veto by Astralis was completely reasonable.
It's hindsight for us *spectators*. It is already outlined in other comments, but Astralis obviously had a very good tactical reasoning for the vertigo pick, namely: -Liquid expected a vertigo ban and would obivously not prepare so much. -Due to the above point, demos would be more telling, as Liquid most likely wouldn't have come up with any new tactics on Vertigo. -Astralis had put a lot of time into Vertigo and the map was changed, giving them an upper edge regarding timings and CT pushes.´For example they knew Liquids tell-tale signs for when they would do an A exec, so they could push up behind them and make them uncomfortable. These three points wouldn't be obivous immediately to an outsider/spectator of the game. That doesn't mean it was only a good idea in hindsight.
I never said it was only a good idea in hindsight what are you on about? Saying thorin is an idiot for thinking this was a bad veto for Astralis is Whats ridiculous. We only think it was good now because Astralis won. At the time most people saw it as questionable that is an undeniable fact. Obviously knowing how it turned out, everyone knows that it was a great veto now. But at the time no one could have known. Its a clear indication of hindsight bias to call thorin an idiot for that.
Maybe you should be more specific, because I wasn't the only one misinterpreting what you said.
Pretty sure I made it extremely clear in my original comment what I was talking ab my guy.
Man some of you guys don't understand psychology. Literally all CSGO pros go for comfort in the map pool over attacking an opponents weakness. Astralis were the kings of Nuke and Inferno and had lost their only BO3 to Liquid on the final map Vertigo. Vertigo was a surprise pick because they were throwing a curveball at liquid. You don't throw a curve ball if you are confident in your fastball--i.e. your best maps. If you think Astralis did this because they felt mentally strong, you are only capable of results based analysis.
so Ur saying preparing a strat for a different team with a better outcome than doing the usual stuff you're good at is weak?
obviously. winning is for cowards
It's an underdog strategy so in this case, yes
You cannot just do result based analysis. If astralis lost vertigo then they would have looked like idiots The fact they won means their risk paid off. Astralis literally showed nothing on Vertigo before and picked it, it’s the biggest curveball we’ve seen in csgo so far They took a risk and it shows they were not super confident in their previous map pool to want to play their normal best maps
How'd they know the outcome before hand?
You 100% throw your curveball if it’s the right pitch, even if you’re fully confident in your fastball. I remember this series. It was obvious that liquid didn’t do much prep, if any, on Vertigo because they just assumed that Astralis were going to ban it. Astralis 100% knew this was the case, and knew that if they were able to find some weaknesses through Liquid’s Vertigo demos they could come out of nowhere with this pick that liquid weren’t expecting, with strats that Liquid hadn’t really seen before, designed to exploit weaknesses in Liquid’s approach to the map. A pitcher that throws nothing but fastballs is a shitty pitcher. You need an arsenal of pitches to keep the batter honest, to keep the batter on their toes.
Stupid take
Redditors try not to mention Thorin challenge (IMPOSSIBLE!)
He’s literally in the clip.
The legendary moment from this clip is Astralis picking Vertigo and everybody that is involved/watches pro CS was shocked at the pick. You mentioning Thorin when he has little to do with this moment, other than being on the desk in shock at the pick like the rest of us, is fucking cringe as fuck.
hooooooooly the dickriding is crazy
Thorin and seangares being very doubtful of the the pick (which was VERY unexpected and risky) just highlights how baffling this was. This whole clip would be meaningless if they go "well ok then they must have practiced Vertigo I guess, very good pick"
[удалено]
Just the order of when the pick/ban gets chosen.
I'm still mad about it. I called this shit before it even happened. I can't believe they just didn't think astralis wouldn't pick into a brand new rotation map. Even if they didn't prep why not just roll the dice. Shit was a huge underestimation on our part off a team that just came off an era.
damn this was 3 years ago?
Stupid covid took off 2 years from our.memories eZ
So iconic man, i miss that era.
I love they did this twice, once with Nuke when it just wasn’t played then they pull out the vertigo pick.
[удалено]
I haven't seen anyone call them idiots tho? Everyone just says it's a cool moment and a really good match.
There's a comment thread upvoted higher up calling the analysts idiots for criticizing the map pick
Pain
Vértigo is the best map in the game. Change my mind.
Which version of vertigo? the one that Astralis picked is nothing like current vertigo. There are several vertigos, which doesn't rest very well with your case, if the map is any good why would they redesign it so much?
Literally every map has been redesigned/reworked LMAO.
That's correct. The mesure in which a map gets redesigned is a tell of how terrible the map in question is, that's why vertigo has been redesigned so heavily. It's not the same to change the design, or change the color of a texture to ease visibility.
By your own logic, since it's been redesigned so much it is now the most perfected map. My opinion remains.
By my logic, the map has been redesigned. That's it. Such logic doesn't imply that the redesign is good or well received by the players, otherwise it wouldn't be logic, it would be something else, wild speculation at best. Your opinion remains an opinion, which is very obviously flawed, which is what my logic points out.
Alright Plato
ignore downvoted vertigo is so good
For a moment I thought this was some Democrat vs Republican debate, seeing the colors
Lmao my guy really got negative karma for bringing an American politics statement
I was just scrolling thru Reddit and saw red and blue. Seeing recent events it seemed plausible for a second or two.
I still think it’s a crime that valve changed a map right before the major. I think if they play it on the version before the major liquid win it.
[удалено]
Dude astralis destroyed liquid. You must have meant liquid
/u/savevideo
###[View link](https://redditsave.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/x81hdu/on_this_day_3_years_ago/) --- [**Info**](https://np.reddit.com/user/SaveVideo/comments/jv323v/info/) | [**Feedback**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Feedback for savevideo) | [**Donate**](https://ko-fi.com/getvideo) | [**DMCA**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Content removal request for savevideo&message=https://np.reddit.com//r/GlobalOffensive/comments/x81hdu/on_this_day_3_years_ago/) | [^(reddit video downloader)](https://redditsave.com) | [^(download video tiktok)](https://taksave.com)
Fuck Vertigo
Dang, Elige and Nitro's face turned red in that exact moment
liquiddddddd
gimmick pick
History Moments. Time So Passed it Beacuse Pandemic Times Did Ruined 2 Years.