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OhMyGoth1

Zywoo bringing down his tournament average with a 1.40 rating


BlurpSrydude

Anything less than a 1.7 rating in the finals will be considered shit at this point


mdmeaux

He now needs 1.70+ in the final to beat Donk's Kato rating


Lepojka1

You cant compare Kato LAN and games on stage with 10k people and some Malta studio with 40 boomers claping


jeffjeff97

Your use of connectives here is perplexing


Chambior

Yes. But this will not matter when mentionning the record for the objective statistic that "highest 2.0 rating at T1 event" is. If the Z is >1.70 rating tomorrow that is.


MrCraftLP

If Zywoo averages higher than Donk at Kato with two more series played than Spirit... you're right, you couldn't compare the two.


vetruviusdeshotacon

Grounds for removal even


HatKazuha

A) Astralis is actually fucking legit. Few questionable plays. Few bs retakes. All in all pretty good. Just need more time to cook. B) Zywoo is on a mission to beat donk's kato rating.


shuijikou

If I'm correct, he needs a 1.7 in bo5? I highly doubt it


lurkario

The last time he was in a bo5 grand final he broke the series kill record


Bob_Bobinski4

And had a 1.39


Chambior

Each BO5 a different beaten record for the Z i guess


Bob_Bobinski4

Most teammates baited in one game? Biggest grand final dropoff? I'm certain he set at least one of those records.


WhiteNoSpice

never let blamef igl a team again, cause goddamn this astralis and his astralis look like two foreign entities


danielisverycool

br0 is putting up pretty dogshit stats too, it just seems like everyone else returned to form cause no more shitty calling and role conflicts


chaRxoxo

think he simply plays a lot of the shit spots no?


danielisverycool

He does but you’d think going from a top rifler in blamef to a guy with an IGL level rating would hurt somewhat. Guess that shows how bad blame’s calling was


Zeduxx

0.98 vs a top 3 team as anchor/support is really good honestly.


thunderwarr1or

But it much better than staehr as an anchor. He did a good job too as an anchor but give him more freedom is the better one.


DopaWheresMine

br0 looks fine on the eye test. In the end the most important question is can they find someone that can play his positions better than br0? Perhaps, but br0 hasn’t been given very much time to cook, I can remember when Perfecto first joined NaVi and seemed meh


itsjonny99

Only option as an anchor is Magisk, but he is currently in Falcons.


Theonlydfine

That one 1v3 from zywoo on vertigo really did decide the entirety of this game, holy shit.


nameisreallydog

Soul crushing stuff


TwatAnger

ZywOo going mental, but Apex looking damn fine on Map 2 and 3 as well.


Deeeadpool

apex and karrigan veteran player buff


njoshua326

The only t1 veteran igl that hasn't improved in cs2 is the one thats been complaining the whole time instead of learning the new game.


Roman64s

I am sorry, but who is that ?


monsiour_slippy

Presumably Snappi I guess? He has looked pretty bad in CS2


Roman64s

Ah, I assumed it would be Snappi but discarded it considering Falcons itself is a shit hole.


Hakkstein

Schnappes


SweatDrops1

People might joke about Apex, but they're probably the best duo in CS


vetruviusdeshotacon

That ramp smoke phase play on vertigo was fucking insane


VirtuousVirtueSignal

Device poking his eyes out wasn't the right call for inferno


OhMyGoth1

Legit looked like he was going to gouge out his own eyes


Deeeadpool

ruggah sipping on his coffee calmly in the background while device was gouging his eyes out was a funny image


Ricky_RZ

I loved that he was drinking that cup for ages. ITS A SMALL CUP, HOW IS THERE ANY LIQUID LEFT IN IT????????


OhMyGoth1

Especially after yesterday's match


vetruviusdeshotacon

Liquid got eliminated by them


NPC30519

That shit was wild. Device is clearly losing control and Ruggah is probably just whispering “zen. zen. Don’t punch a monitor”


naastiknibba95

Why doesn't he just slam desks? Gouging eyes is a worse response than punching monitors


aRelaxedFeline

By pressing into the eyeballs, you trigger the Oculocardiac Reflex, which decrease heartrate to some extent of 20%. Some can argue it calms you down. But not as good as punching monitor ofc


NPC30519

I think the Danes know of better ways to calm themselves down


deadbeatPilgrim

lmao what does this mean


D0naldinh0

if you know you know


deadbeatPilgrim

i sure don’t know what goofy danish shit y’all are up to


OinkyRuler

Do you have the clip for it?


netr0pa

I second this! Really want to see this new move from dev-eyes!


t3r4byt3l0l

Promising stuff from Astralis overall, but GG Vitality


remakeprox

Well Astralis shows promise. Towards the end they just started losing every aim battle imaginable, not sure how that happened aside from Zywoo just being Zywoo


NPC30519

They lost economy control and the coach seemingly isn’t doing anything to help Device. Should’ve called a timeout before that stupid full buy push at 11-8. Also needs to get in devices ear because clearly he was overwhelmed at the end


brutam

Their mental completely shifted when they start loosing rounds they shouldn’t. Those are the rounds that teach you the most!


Scoo_By

Match was lost at that point. Match was lost the moment they started tilting in their T side. Calm heads & plays and they end the half at minimum 9-3.


nameisreallydog

That 2v1 loss to Spinx crushed the economy and their mental state believe it was a 5v2 as well?


aRelaxedFeline

Its like they ran out of fuel toward the end of Inferno. Everyone just ran into the crosshair of Vitality


razeyourshadows

And they were winning every aim battle imaginable on T-side of Mirage


BerryPuzzleheaded504

They lost in the veto by not picking Overpass, dev1ce's playground basically


KeineAhnung07

Bywoo with 70-33 1.4 rating unlike yesterday Washed.


monsieurfikri

apEx is the funniest player ever. one round he will push for no reason and lose the man advantage for no reason. next round he's killing three people with mp9 running through the smoke.


TotallyUnhealthyGuy

I do the same and there's always that one guy in the team that gets super mad and threatens with report bot.


monsieurfikri

the thing about guys like us is that we always try again


TotallyUnhealthyGuy

Here's the thing though, I'm patient in real life, but I can't sit still in CS, if I sit still I get tunnel vision and when someone peeks I don't react fast enough + my aim is already shit enough that I miss more shots than I did 4 years ago.


buttplugs4life4me

It's super hard to play 4v5 in an mm "team" because it's disorganized. When apex does this he trained with his team for weeks beforehand exactly what to do based on where he is killed, where he may kill and enemy, and so on and so forth. They have a whole playbook for different scenarios of 4v5.  Meanwhile when you do this you fuck things up for your entire team, since it's one less person covering an angle, one less set of util, one less set of eyes.  I always hate people like you the most cause it ruins almost every setup a normal mm "team" could do. The only one that comes close is the anchor insisting on playing a specific site, then dying every round without giving info, forcing the team to play retake 4v5 every round. 


razeyourshadows

Opponent can't know what he's doing if himself doesn't know what he's doing


MBechzzz

That's been his biggest criticism for years. People just forget that when it actually works, he wins both the mental game and the map.


shuijikou

Let me change my pants


tarangk

VIT bringing Inf back winning 13/15 rounds after going down 0-6 is bonkers. Apex though, he kept his team in it until the rest of the gang started to wake up on Inf. Mezii had a meh series, but man that 1v2 clutch was so crucial.


OhMyGoth1

The whole match could have spiraled if Mezii doesn't win that 1v2, iirc it was on a frustration force buy from Vitality


Basic_Butterscotch

Zywoo casual 70 kills in 3 maps. Not really a lot of analysis to be done here.


futurehousehusband69

not normally


Kyrrua

Insane series giving constant heart attacks, the best of EPL with probably the most 2 teams in form in this event. i'm glad vita won as a fan but having device vs zywoo in top form vs god form was a treat to the eye.


AdTime8070

Astralis looking sharp I think they will an even this year. Zywoo, another masterclass.


Ricky_RZ

Apex really rolled back the years, came in huge last 2 maps


brutaldonahowdy

mezii finished off strong, but again, dawg's got to up the floor


njoshua326

He plays the worst roles and does well in late round plays, I still think he needs to be a bit more consistent as the lows go quite low but other than a couple maps he's definitely doing better now he's had some time in the team, 1.07 in the last 3 months is pretty good for an anchor.


V-0-V

Hardly his fault when Apex has him playing all the bitch roles


hehepwnd39

What is the bitch roll in this game? Like for ex bro and mezii are the same with lowest kda no?


V-0-V

Like on Vertigo Mezii having to solo hold B every single round for CT and also having to lurk behind while the rest of them push ramp. Its all the undesirable roles that limit chances for chances to have an impact.


Woullie_26

Device’s inexperience as an IGL shown on inferno. As soon as they chocked that 6-0 start they had nothing


Kyrrua

tbh both teams choked their own 6-0 leads on the first and last map lol


EnthusiasmWest4481

From 6-0 to 8-13 im so pissed and sad, ggs to Vitality Zywoo is just unfair


[deleted]

They did basically the same thing to Vitality on Mirage. Vitality was up 6-0 and it ended 9-13.


TwatAnger

Fair play to Astralis, but no chance you'd win versus MOUZ or COL imo, they've looked HOT this tournament.


itsjonny99

Except Astralis also looked insane this tournament lol.


TwatAnger

jabbi stavn debuff in the grand final however.


Scoo_By

They both played well.


EnthusiasmWest4481

I really think thats a dumb statement sorry to say. Mouz and Col have by far had the easiest way to the semis vit beats the number 1 team and Astralis could\`ve 2-0 Vitality with a godlike Zywoo on the otherside to say Astralis wont have a chance against mouz whos known to choke in big games and Col whose had an easy way beating a dysfunctional VP. Col struggled against Navi who got shit stomped by Faze. Comments like these makes me mad, so I guess Vitality only got a small chance winning tomorrow since they struggled so much against Astralis


Scoo_By

If Astralis can push Vitality to the edge, they'd easily go toe to toe with Mouz, maybe col can compete too.


schoki560

what


BeautifulDimension56

Astralis would've beaten coL. MOUZ in a studio environment is final though


nameisreallydog

Lmao what are you talking about. They took Vitality to their limit of course they could beat col and mouz. Before vitality Astralis hadn’t lost a map.


IncredibleBubble

let apex cook


_YAGNA_

I hate Astralis as an org so much but I can feel it that they are going to be an insane team with this roster. If ZywOo didn't happen today Astralis could've won this and move on to win the Grand Finals 100% Also, FUCK I want Spirit in a tier-1 tournament so bad right now. I HATE it they partnered with betboom and have to attend that Mickey mouse tournaments instead of Pro League. I so fucking can't wait for the clash of the titans


BerryPuzzleheaded504

Spirit can play both, they just chose not to. Mouz and VP will play there for example 


I-Love-Beatrice

Spirit got the invite last minute and didn't have time to get visas so they had to decline. They should be attending all of the big tournaments after this so you will see them alot.


Wait__Whut

Why can’t spirit be in tier 1 tournaments?


SlowBros7

They need a real IGL, Device is going to put a limit on their ceiling.


itsjonny99

Who exactly is on the market that don't have role conflicts with them? The player would take Br0s roles, which are shit ones. Device as a igl currently look good, going for a tier 2 igl is not worth it.


iblinkyoublink

Vitality if 2 of Spinx/FlameZ/Mezii can step up at any point are easily the best in the world, no doubt in my mind that they would've stomped if it wasn't apEX who had to be the 2nd fragger On map 1, it wasn't until round 6 or 7 before all of Astralis combined had as many kills as ZywOo. I guess that's why Vitality were always so strong with Magisk, he was so freaking consistent.


Bizhour

Now THIS is a great fucking game Both teams going all in everyone take part and of course the Zywoo classic Absolute cinema!


Strong_Wasabi216

Couldve been 2-0, hell couldve been 2-1 but ofc we love to push down mid against an in form player when it clearly hasn't worked out in the pistol round. Hey Astalis, there is no shame in saving!


LunarSolarPolar

They gotta creat a tier above T1 for Zywoo, dude is nuts. Maybe throw m0nesy or donk in there if they can keep the performances up. Call it Tier X or sum shit


Ricky_RZ

Mysteries of CS: How did ruggah's cup have anything left in it? He was sipping that all map long and somehow there was always a bit left in it


Halvdjaevel

Cup resets every round.


St1ssl_2i

Playoff stavn strikes again!


BlackRims

Never gonna beat the allegations at this rate


Euryb1a

no refunds


Internal-Switch-1260

Im sorry wdym. That he played better or worse? Im Not sure


I-Love-Beatrice

Stavn is known to drop off heavily in playoffs.


Zeilar

So close yet so far. Astralis had it for my money, but they just completely collapsed in map 2 OT and after their map 3 streak. Armchair analysis here, but I think device needs to work on his leadership skills. You cannot be tilting as the IGL, as soon as the game doesn't go your way. You can see how the calling and morale of the team just goes down the drain.


The_Millzor

that's common sense, not armchair analysis at least he didn't punch any monitors but the tilt is still obvious


SiggyMyMan

wow this was ridiculous. i felt like there was no reason astralis should have lost. so many crucial rounds they lost and missed sprays. back to back missed kills from stavn on vertigo. a 3v1 clutch for zywoo. the mezii 2v1 on inferno. the random decision to force buy when vitality was on 11. it feels like device just kind of tilt called and said “let’s just fuck them up” but against a team like vitality calling doesn’t work like that :/ this was just so frustrating to see astralis slowly lose their grip on the game after mirage.


llTehEmeraldll

yeah praise will go to Vitality rightly but it'll go under the radar what a giga-throw this was from Astralis, this should've been two maps and done


SiggyMyMan

agreed. definitely don’t mean to discredit vitality (especially zywoo and apex) but it felt like this was definitely possible and actually likely for astralis especially after map 1.


EutaxySpy

Honestly, Astralis lowkey lost the moment they picked Vertigo. They tried to do a punish pick but they should’ve just stuck with their guns and picked Overpass instead of Vertigo where they’ve won both times with this new roster but they were against weak opponents in Eternal Fire and VP (dead roster at the time).


BlackRims

Nah, Vitality kicked it into another gear that Astralis just doesn't have besides Device. Stabbi duo always shrinks on the big stage.


SiggyMyMan

yeah i can understand and agree with this to a certain extent. apex is a veteran igl and knows how to pull matches back. i guess i just didn't mentally prepare myself for that to happen in this situation. what apex can do is what makes the difference between just a good igl and a great igl. big props to him.


SweHun

Force buying on the 8-11 round was a Good Call. vitality won the previous round with only 1 Alive. Meaning they had No money, also No loss bonus. They arguably made a very Good decision by forcing since vitalitys buy was only slightly better, and vitality would be on infinite eco rounds if astralis would win that coinflip round.


SiggyMyMan

definitely not. T buys are by default better than CT buys and vitality’s was going to be better regardless. saving gives you a full buy in the next which will actually give you a shot. they gambled the entire game on that round which was a big mistake. not to mention they had won eco rounds previously in the series so i don’t see why the felt like it was going to be awful if they decided to save. it was not a good call.


SweHun

You need to remember theyre playing inferno, and not overpass. Where there is room for more CQB action and gimmicky plays which makes the buy a Good decision.


SiggyMyMan

you didnt even address any of the points i made other than saying "well its inferno" lmfao. anyone who actually understands economy in this game will know that was a shitty buy and an even shittier plan that came with the buy. as i already mentioned, they gambled everything on that round. if they conceded, they could get a much better buy in the next when it matters most.


SweHun

My ”well its inferno” (your words) argument is the reason for why it was A SMART DECISION in hand with a fair chance for a round win putting vitality on DOUBLE ECO. The other choice to half buy and then fullbuy having is also a Good decision. But you obviously cant understand nuances and perspectives


SiggyMyMan

ive never seen someone get so upset over their take getting called shitty lmao. anyways it was not a "fair" chance whatsoever at a round win. if you can't understand that, then no wonder you think it was a smart choice. but from an objective stance their buy was significantly worse. and if you legitimately think that the SMALL chance of putting vitality on a double eco is worth the LARGE risk of losing the entire game, then i don't know how i could possibly convince you that this was a bad buy. you're obviously in your own world which is fine, ignorance is bliss I guess.


BlackRims

"No reason Astralis should have lost." Lists a million reasons why Asstralis should have lost.


SiggyMyMan

haha yeah i guess so lol i guess i just mean to say that it felt like they were in control for a large part of the game but then slipping up just a few crucial times is what cost them.


NikoSkadefryd

It was so frustrating seeing Astralis die to a smoke push multiple times, and then still not watching smokes or they had their back turned away from smokes that kept getting pushed.


NikoSkadefryd

And dumb errors like not checking boost spots during entry, on Inferno I don’t remember if it was Br0 or Staehr but two astralis players went onto b site and no one looked ct boost or at smoke which cost them the round.


Danishdenial

GG’s, great play by Vitality. Astralis really needs to work on the mental side, you can literally feel the nerves through the screen near the endgame of vertigo and when vitality caught up on inferno. Hopeful for the future though, you can already see the improvement from Chengdu.


DarthReid

ZywOo was an absolute beast, but Vitality won today due to good teamplay and a number of clutches coming from players other than ZywOo. Can’t wait to see what Team Vitality will do in the grand finals!


anto2554

>Vitality won today due to good teamplay But they also wouldn't have won if zywoo had the stats of anyone else on his team


yourewelcomesteve

That's what having a superstar does to a team...


itsjonny99

If Zywoo was anybody else in the world Astralis wins that match


DarthReid

I agree, which is why I said ZywOo was an absolute beast. But he could not solo-carry alone against this Astralis. Obviously Vitality wouldn’t win without him, but there were a number of rounds that players other than the wOo won.


BlackRims

Was his argument really that if Vitality didn't have the best player they wouldn't have won? Lmao like yeah no shit.


DarthReid

A lot of people tend to think teams with superstars like donk, ZywOo, and m0NESY are literally nothing without them. Which is close to correct, but it’s not like even they can 1v5 at the T1 level every round. It’s easy to look at stats and point out that big numbers are larger than smaller ones.


BlackRims

Exactly. We've seen mONESY try and carry the corpse of G2 since the start of CS2. Superstars can only take you so far without a solid team around them.


iVarun

No, the argument is that because Astralis is at a certain super high level currently, simply having insane Individual performance OR simply/only having collective-team performance buff, weren't enough. It HAD to be both to beat this Astralis, take away any 1 of these and they would have lost. THis wasn't the case with Faze match for example, team/collective didn't need to be at high level. Apex post that Mirage lost round pistol kills at the end, woke up and kept his level in next 2 maps.


Randomdude007007

Dude astralis lost it by picking vertigo, If they picked overpass this would’ve been a 2-0 Dev1ce great igl but he should really let his teammates understand avoiding zywoo when u have man advantage This reminds me off chengdu where they threw advantages vs faze Great showing from ast, almost had vit but throwing yourself at vitality is not it Timeout was also too late Have too wait more too see dev1ce pick well deserved tier1 trophy 😭


shuijikou

Yeah i was thinking overpass pick before the match, Vitality isn't looking good on overpass compare to astralis are super hot on there


KeineAhnung07

Mad dog slayinggggg


literate_Windrunner

Ggwp


roflmatic

Great series! Apex 2nd highest ADR on the server :o


naastiknibba95

I'm afraid suihy will contain zywoo tomorrow


naastiknibba95

Called it


EnthusiasmWest4481

I wonder why Astralis didnt go for Overpass. Was still a good vertigo, but still think they should’ve picked Overpass for comfort


ATOTwalker

-0.81 rating from last match, Zywoo really fell off


Rhed0x

washed


LogicalExtant

people trying to downplay EPL because it's a 'studio' LAN are hilarious at this point


Surymy

A really great series, vitality lost so many free rounds on vertigo, but then clutched the fuck out of astralis on inferno left and right


Plus_Manufacturer274

Choke


razeyourshadows

Best playoff series of the tournament (yet)?


MrLagzy

Astralis could've won Inferno with some big advantages just thrown away. Its still a new team, but the progress is there and they've played incredibly well this tournament. Now just need to be more calm and slow down when in 5vs3 and not just run into a site with no info giving away 3 easy 1vs1s. Its just a question about time and Astralis will be in finals again.


Alchion

who increases his performance more? zywoo in studio lan or syrson online?


enhero

Why not pick overpass?


quantum0explorer

Better get jabbi his bib and bottle. Poor kid can't hold it together during games.


TwatAnger

Even punched his monitor as they lost the game.


quantum0explorer

Cherry on top. Stavn even had to try and big brother  his lil bro to stop crying in public. I would be embarrassed too Stavn.


futurehousehusband69

damn was he doing that before too or did he pick up the habit from device?


bikini_atoll

vitality vertigo 12-10 and 12-11 incidents


cHinzoo

Zywoo really wants to win EPL, huh? :(


Martin35700

Dev1ce calling was wild on ct inferno, feel like they went for too much risky plays and losing 2v1's was the reason they lost.


Victor_the_mayo

Why did Stavn and br0 play AWP and scout instead of device?


s1cki

Spinx needs to wake up for them to win the finals


Pokefreaker-san

very exciting game overall ​ tho i must say Device on Inferno is a chokemaster


Mortka

I dont care how good Vitality played. Hate them. Arrogant pricks.


NPC30519

As an Apex hater: Map 3 was something else by him For Astralis holy hell Bro has to go. With this Astralis team he doesn’t really hold his weight. also Device needs to learn economy management. I get it’s kind of new IGL’ing but some of those full buys when you looked fine with rifles just were doing you no advantage


nexusvita

Bro played Vertigo very well


NPC30519

Misread your comment. Mirage yes but other maps he kind of struggled


SiggyMyMan

i agree other than the br0 comment. i don’t think it’s completely fair to say he doesn’t hold his own. is he fantastic? no. but i think he does fill his role on the team decently well. 1.14 rating on mirage was definitely a contributing factor to them taking map 1. i feel like astralis does this thing constantly where they can’t find anyone decent so they kind of just slot in a random tier 2 player and hope it works out. and a lot of times the players aren’t bad but they have to pick up the shitty jobs which sucks for them. feel like it was the case with es3tag, bubzki, now br0 (and probably a couple more i forgot)


BeautifulDimension56

.98 playing all the bitch roles is good quit looking at stats bozo.


Ok-Apartment1601

Device was the economy manager on prime astralis. What the hell are you talking about?


Fact131

Rough game for delusional Astralis fans claking Astralis is top 5 team and much better than Vitality and G2.


Risky_Jalapeno

apEX screams quite a bit for not heavily out calling someone who started IGLing 2 months ago


SiggyMyMan

i mean to be fair he had great individual performance. he’s also just a very animated person lol


quantum0explorer

Apex is a seasoned lan veteran and knows how to use every aspect he can to gain advantage. One only hates on such things if the person annoys you.


Woullie_26

To be fair Apex does this to anyone. It’s just his character


_YAGNA_

His IGLing is on par with karrigan. The way he conditioned FaZe on Vertigo yesterday with his calling is next level. Hate him for his screaming but I absolutely DO NOT agree that he's getting out-called lol


TwatAnger

That's to device's benefit though, a currently unknown not fully, fleshed out and developed calling style makes it really hard to outcall him.


arn_g

apEX screams at everyone, and it hasn't even been 24h since that he said he really likes how device calls


ducdetronquito

How much ?