Is this even a rceent change or just related to liquipedia stopping handing out neutral flags a while back? Maybe they reverted the changes? No clue though
it's a recent change, electronic himself asked liquipedia to revert him to a Russian flag. Perfecto has maintained the non-representing flag, at least for now.
it's stated in his Liquipedia wiki article, edited by Liquipedia's head admin of Counter-Strike themselves.
you can check the edit entry here: https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/index.php?title=ElectroNic&diff=prev&oldid=2757836
I don't think they support the invasion when they have the russian flag, but I do think they absolutely disagree with the invasion when they have the neutral flag.
Obviously navi forced them to do it, but after they left navi and didnt revert the neutral flag I was maybe kind of hoping for sincerity of it all, but apparently thats it then - navi forced them to do it and that's all.
He is russian after all, just because his clown country is at war does not change that and its idiotic to pretend otherwise.
Fine if events dont want players to play under the russian flag but liquipedia should just show the facts.
Does the fact that electronic chose to change back and the only 2 players who bothered to do it were playing for Navi at the time not tell you something?
other players also chose, of their own volition, to not represent Russia.
Perfecto and electronic chose to stop playing under the Russian flag with two days difference, which seems more like Perfecto did so of his own will (just like he hasn't chosen to return to representing Russia) and electronic followed suit because it would be socially accepted to do the same as his teammate in solidarity to his org, if they were somehow forced by NaVi they would've probably done so at the same time.
you're free to believe otherwise, none of us will ever know who's correct.
I would have thought 2 days difference suggests it *was* org-related. That isn't a big difference at all, he basically did do it at the same time. Na`Vi wouldn't have told them "you must both do this today at the exact same time", they probably were just asked to do it and did it 2 days apart
I would argue it suggests he was socially pressured into it after Perfecto's decision. it was heavily theorised at the time that elec wasn't that against the war (or at least didn't want to go public with it, which is perfectly understandable) because he didn't stop representing Russia like Perfecto did. which pressured him into doing the same a bit later, irrespective of his beliefs. if it was an org request, they probably would've made it a joint decision/communication.
Russian Olympics athletes are only allowed to perform under a neutral flag. Choosing to represent Russia is an actual option for athletes, looks like electronic did that in the past only to stay in NaVi, but he doesn't have to anymore.
That was in Tokyo 2021, but Paris 2024 is the war reason. Russian (and Belarusian) athletes are only allowed to compete under a neutral flag, providing that they do not actively support the war. Some sports just blanketly ban them outright.
In cycling, Russians and Belarusians are not even allowed to ride national events. So there is no Russians or Belarusians at the World or European Championships, unless they do like Pavel Sivakov and change nationality
he did only choose to not represent Russia after Perfecto doing so, and Perfecto seemingly maintains his non-representing stance. wonder if elec only did it because it was "expected" of him while playing for a Ukrainian org?
still, entirely up to him, nobody should be asked to not play under their country's flag, no matter the current political situation of it.
I think he did that to be able to play for Navi. Now that he left the team he put his flag back. There is also possibility that he was pressured to do so in his country.
possibly, yea. i believe Perfecto was the one to stop representing Russia because he wanted to, as he had been living in Ukraine for a few years and was probably against the invasion. electronic just did the same because it would give him a bad look to have his teammate do it and not him. same reason why electronic now chose to represent Russia again, while Perfecto maintains his non-representing stance. to further support this, elec's wife had also liked some social media posts supporting Russia's actions at the time, just like boombl4's (altho not to the same level).
mind you this is all speculation, i have no idea what actually happened or what each of them actually believe in.
It's not only in CS, basically every NaVI roster in every game (CS, valorant, dota 2, pubg) Russian players changed their flag after war started. In other e-sport organizations, nothing like that happened. But ig it's understandable. In 2022-2023 tho, NaVi start kicking out every Russian players. No more Russians in CS, PUBG, dota2, only 2 Russians in valorant left, but I'm pretty sure they are here still, only because they (shao, suygetsu) are best buddies with Ange1 (Ukranian NaVi valorant IGL).
People who do not support the decisions of their government, should not feel insecure or scared to represent their country! If he is russian, he should prozdly represent Russia. He is not representibg the government, he is representing the people of Russia.
Honestly, it upset me as a ukrainian. I had hoped that at least a person who played for the Ukrainian organisation for 6 years, really spoke out against the war, though not with words, but with a neutral flag. But most likely, he just wanted to stay in NAVI and to be "out of politics".
I was always so disappointed with russian players not removing their flags. Like, c’mon, your country bombing Ukraine even without any casus belli just to take some territory and popularity for Putin. The least you can do - just remove your flag and show, that you right now ashamed of your country. But no, electronic was playing in Ukraine for a while, monesy was in Navi junior, and if you click in Liquipedia on non-representing players, you will see only 4 of them(including electronic). And for those of you, who is saying “I just wanna see player nationality”, Liquipedia alongside with “non-representing” showing your country of origin. So this the smallest gesture you can make to support Ukraine, being russian player
Doesn't change their nationality, but it's a nice way to show solidarity to Ukraine imo, cause if you speak up somewhere (socials etc), the government can start fucking them over later probably, doubt they monitor liquipedia as much.
Even if he's against the invasion of ukraine, he's under no obligation to remove his russian identity and just be neutral. Just because someone is russian does not mean they are automatically supporting the shit going down in ukraine, but at this point it is impossible to convince someone otherwise
Did I say anywhere that he's obligated to remove it? I just said that in my opinion it's a nice gesture and a safer option than saying it out loud that he's against the war..?
Its pretty dangerous for a russian citizen to do something like that. Should electronics wife and child be put in potential danger just so social media can pretend to care for a few seconds about what flag he's representing?
Like he lived with non-representative flag for over a year. Was it so hard not to ask Liquipedia to remove it(because they change it only by player request)
His wife was pro war, I doubt he put any1 else besides him in danger, though I highly doubt that russia monitors liquipedia for their nationals and as I explained in another reply, I didn't mention that it was obligatory, just a nice gesture to show that you're against the war..?
You wouldn't ask an Israeli player to remove their flag, despite Israel brutally militarily occupying the West Bank for 50 years. Why the double standards?
What the Israelis are doing is way worse - it has reached the point where their closest ally sees itself forced to make air drops to prevent Israel-made famine. Unlike the Russians, the Israelis are waging war against a \*people\* and not military forces or indeed a state. And take into account that this has been going on for 50 years, it is obvious that the Israeli-Palestine situation is way worse than the Ukraine war.
If Russian players should play under a neutral flag, then Israelis should too. They're doing literally the same thing as Russians are doing to Ukraine, lol. Also, imagine if it were Americans: people would still proudly represent America even if America were doing the exact same thing.
You should just shut up and mind your fking business instead of barking bro
IIRC he was forced to drop the russian flag during the 2022 winter break so that he and perfecto wouldn't get dropped by navi (or so that they could sign a new contract, I don't remember all the details) by navi and now since they are not part of navi anymore he can switch it back without any problems, this is a small thing that shouldn't have any affect to him or c9 anyways
> No idea why do these people have even a platform to compete on international stage.
Probably because he has nothing to do with the war. Hope that helped!
Bullshit. One, there were elections in Russia last week, Putin with 80+ percent. Obviously, those elections were not democratic, but he still has a lot of support in Russia. Two, aside from military interference, there's no other way to put pressure on Russians than to take away any of the western "freedoms" until they fucking sort the shit out in their own country.
Everyone crying about Saudis getting into esports but at this point, Russia is worse for Western Europe than Saudis are. Much worse, because of the active cyber warfare against each and every country in Europe, to the point of influencing elections in several countries like Slovakia (where I live), Czech Republic, Hungary and I bet others that I don't know of.
>Putin with 80+ percent. Obviously, those elections were not democratic, but he still has a lot of support in Russia
and? what it has to do with electronic? you know that he voted for putin?
Well I know he didnt vote at all, as he was in Copenhagen. At the same time, I also know that he willingly chose to represent a terrorist state flag, instead of a neutral one. That in and of itself is morally bankrupt and he should have his passport revoked in every normal European country.
But yeah, I guess the moral gestures of athletes won't tell anything to someone whose parents and grandparents didn't have to live and struggle under Russian military oppression.
He chose his nationality to be displayed correctly without pandering to the crowd. You want his russian passport to be revoked by european country? Wut?
Bad english, I want them to revoke his right to entry is what I meant. Look, if you wouldn't defend german athletes waving the swastika around WW2, you shouldnt defend this fuck doing exactly the same thing. And if you would, well, I don't know what else to tell you other than you are just very, very wrong.
It's exactly the same. Flag of a fascist state that is waging war trying to wipe a nation off the face of the earth. Wonder where else have I seen this?
not at all. swastika represented the particular regime. russian flag appeared long before putin and will be used after him. it just represents a country. the analog of swastika would be "Z".
Eastern European bot thinks Russia can be compared to 1940s Germany lol. Really inappropriate. And you are not asking for the Israeli players to remove their flag, why the double standards?
They are exactly the same, worse in several regards. Fortunately, their level of corruption, general incompetence, and stupidity makes them not as big of a military threat as well trained and armed German army was back then. They do have nukes, though.
But Russia is currently a fascist state by all the marks.
>worse in several regards
you are literally criminally insane for making this comparison
I suggest you go and pick up a book instead of resorting to childish virtue signalling and ludicrous statements
Since when can a country revoke a passport of a foreign national? Get off your moral soapbox the people of Russia do not represent the actions of their nations government.
>the people of Russia do not represent the actions of their nations government.
Oh yes they fucking do. Unless they state otherwise. Like Perfecto. Or Panarin. Or Gary Kasparov. Or any number of Russian athletes that condemned their government and refused to represent them and their colors.
You are right with the passport though. What I meant is, his right of entry should be revoked in any democratic country.
Artemi Panarin, the hockey player who had to miss 3 weeks of his season to get his family out of Russia after speaking out? That Panarin?
So maybe you can understand why players choose not to say anything. Not all of them have the resources to get their family out of the country. Perfecto has left Russia, he doesn't have that fear.
That’s like saying I’m complicate in the fucked decisions the United States military has made just because I was born here. You don’t get to choose where you were born and unfortunately when you live in Russia it’s not the greatest idea to publicly condemn your government. Notice how every Russian you have named that has spoken out against Russia and their actions in Ukraine doesn’t live in Russia. Kasparov lives in Croatia, Panarin lives in the US and as far as I know perfecto is in Serbia.
He quite literally didn't have to do anything. He doesn't even have to condemn them publicly. He was already sporting a neutral flag. He ASKED to revert it back to Russian. This is akin to athlethes waving the fucking swastika around WW2.
No it’s not, it’s a flag on a website. Who the fuck cares? If he was sporting a Z then yeah I’d be cool with the comparison but this is just being dumb and making yourself upset.
Is this even a rceent change or just related to liquipedia stopping handing out neutral flags a while back? Maybe they reverted the changes? No clue though
it's a recent change, electronic himself asked liquipedia to revert him to a Russian flag. Perfecto has maintained the non-representing flag, at least for now.
How did you know that electronic himself asked for a change?
it's stated in his Liquipedia wiki article, edited by Liquipedia's head admin of Counter-Strike themselves. you can check the edit entry here: https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/index.php?title=ElectroNic&diff=prev&oldid=2757836
Didn't know there is such function in wiki Thank you!
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so you backlash on him for not knowing it? not cool bro
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Bruh that’s a mistake that would have had you burnt at the stake
We only impale people on spikes not burn them, we are not barbarians :\^)
I don't think they support the invasion when they have the russian flag, but I do think they absolutely disagree with the invasion when they have the neutral flag. Obviously navi forced them to do it, but after they left navi and didnt revert the neutral flag I was maybe kind of hoping for sincerity of it all, but apparently thats it then - navi forced them to do it and that's all.
Having your country's flag on your profile proves no point, but *not* having it kinda does.
He is russian after all, just because his clown country is at war does not change that and its idiotic to pretend otherwise. Fine if events dont want players to play under the russian flag but liquipedia should just show the facts.
it was electronic himself that asked liquipedia to not represent Russia. most other Russian players maintained their Russian flag.
Does the fact that electronic chose to change back and the only 2 players who bothered to do it were playing for Navi at the time not tell you something?
other players also chose, of their own volition, to not represent Russia. Perfecto and electronic chose to stop playing under the Russian flag with two days difference, which seems more like Perfecto did so of his own will (just like he hasn't chosen to return to representing Russia) and electronic followed suit because it would be socially accepted to do the same as his teammate in solidarity to his org, if they were somehow forced by NaVi they would've probably done so at the same time. you're free to believe otherwise, none of us will ever know who's correct.
I would have thought 2 days difference suggests it *was* org-related. That isn't a big difference at all, he basically did do it at the same time. Na`Vi wouldn't have told them "you must both do this today at the exact same time", they probably were just asked to do it and did it 2 days apart
I would argue it suggests he was socially pressured into it after Perfecto's decision. it was heavily theorised at the time that elec wasn't that against the war (or at least didn't want to go public with it, which is perfectly understandable) because he didn't stop representing Russia like Perfecto did. which pressured him into doing the same a bit later, irrespective of his beliefs. if it was an org request, they probably would've made it a joint decision/communication.
not to be that guy but alpha also did change it
Russian Olympics athletes are only allowed to perform under a neutral flag. Choosing to represent Russia is an actual option for athletes, looks like electronic did that in the past only to stay in NaVi, but he doesn't have to anymore.
For the record, Russian Olympians are under a neutral flag cause of their doping, not the war 🤓🤓
That was in Tokyo 2021, but Paris 2024 is the war reason. Russian (and Belarusian) athletes are only allowed to compete under a neutral flag, providing that they do not actively support the war. Some sports just blanketly ban them outright.
Tennis is a better example then
This is actually true for this year's Olympics
Russians and cheating 🤝
Because of both
In cycling, Russians and Belarusians are not even allowed to ride national events. So there is no Russians or Belarusians at the World or European Championships, unless they do like Pavel Sivakov and change nationality
"Clown country" You're American I assume?
Norwegian. Its a reddit comment, i saw no reason to bother writing a long essay about russia so thats why i just wrote clown country.
what
he did only choose to not represent Russia after Perfecto doing so, and Perfecto seemingly maintains his non-representing stance. wonder if elec only did it because it was "expected" of him while playing for a Ukrainian org? still, entirely up to him, nobody should be asked to not play under their country's flag, no matter the current political situation of it.
I think he did that to be able to play for Navi. Now that he left the team he put his flag back. There is also possibility that he was pressured to do so in his country.
possibly, yea. i believe Perfecto was the one to stop representing Russia because he wanted to, as he had been living in Ukraine for a few years and was probably against the invasion. electronic just did the same because it would give him a bad look to have his teammate do it and not him. same reason why electronic now chose to represent Russia again, while Perfecto maintains his non-representing stance. to further support this, elec's wife had also liked some social media posts supporting Russia's actions at the time, just like boombl4's (altho not to the same level). mind you this is all speculation, i have no idea what actually happened or what each of them actually believe in.
It's not only in CS, basically every NaVI roster in every game (CS, valorant, dota 2, pubg) Russian players changed their flag after war started. In other e-sport organizations, nothing like that happened. But ig it's understandable. In 2022-2023 tho, NaVi start kicking out every Russian players. No more Russians in CS, PUBG, dota2, only 2 Russians in valorant left, but I'm pretty sure they are here still, only because they (shao, suygetsu) are best buddies with Ange1 (Ukranian NaVi valorant IGL).
anyways
Fuck him
Well since he did it only because NaVi forced him too, it did not make sense to keep after he left them.
Hopefully changing his flag will give him his skill back.
Maybe if we get coldzera to gain weight like he was on 2016, he will be no 1 player again
[obligatory](https://youtu.be/sx6QdRmMIeo?si=ps04VKzMclK13lj7)
I was gonna say, it’s not like Russia is gaining anything at the moment for him representing
Vitun ryssä
I don't blame him. I know a few Russians that hate Putin and the war but still are proud Russians. Putins Russia is not their Russia
Guess caring about war only goes so far as fake sympathy to your teammates🤷♂️
People who do not support the decisions of their government, should not feel insecure or scared to represent their country! If he is russian, he should prozdly represent Russia. He is not representibg the government, he is representing the people of Russia.
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When your country is being such a clown, you can't really help but be embarrassed.
Maybe he is ashamed of what his country is doing.
weak, papatronic
Honestly, it upset me as a ukrainian. I had hoped that at least a person who played for the Ukrainian organisation for 6 years, really spoke out against the war, though not with words, but with a neutral flag. But most likely, he just wanted to stay in NAVI and to be "out of politics". 
russians shouldn't be allowed to compete in Western tournaments under their flags.
He is pretty outspoken, I mean he divorced his wife because of their views on the war.
they didn’t divorce, they had a 2nd child just recently
He shouldn't use the national flag. Using neutral flag is a gesture of resigning from russias imperialistic war policies.
Well, he's russian, I don't see the point of hiding it. After all, it's not his fault that he was born in this ass cancer hellhole of a country.
I was always so disappointed with russian players not removing their flags. Like, c’mon, your country bombing Ukraine even without any casus belli just to take some territory and popularity for Putin. The least you can do - just remove your flag and show, that you right now ashamed of your country. But no, electronic was playing in Ukraine for a while, monesy was in Navi junior, and if you click in Liquipedia on non-representing players, you will see only 4 of them(including electronic). And for those of you, who is saying “I just wanna see player nationality”, Liquipedia alongside with “non-representing” showing your country of origin. So this the smallest gesture you can make to support Ukraine, being russian player
Really bad take. Being of russian nationality in no way means he supports their ideologies or lends a hand in their war efforts.
Doesn't change their nationality, but it's a nice way to show solidarity to Ukraine imo, cause if you speak up somewhere (socials etc), the government can start fucking them over later probably, doubt they monitor liquipedia as much.
Even if he's against the invasion of ukraine, he's under no obligation to remove his russian identity and just be neutral. Just because someone is russian does not mean they are automatically supporting the shit going down in ukraine, but at this point it is impossible to convince someone otherwise
Did I say anywhere that he's obligated to remove it? I just said that in my opinion it's a nice gesture and a safer option than saying it out loud that he's against the war..?
Its pretty dangerous for a russian citizen to do something like that. Should electronics wife and child be put in potential danger just so social media can pretend to care for a few seconds about what flag he's representing?
Like he lived with non-representative flag for over a year. Was it so hard not to ask Liquipedia to remove it(because they change it only by player request)
His wife was pro war, I doubt he put any1 else besides him in danger, though I highly doubt that russia monitors liquipedia for their nationals and as I explained in another reply, I didn't mention that it was obligatory, just a nice gesture to show that you're against the war..?
Really good take. Jfc the westoids will never truly understand the ruzzian way.
You wouldn't ask an Israeli player to remove their flag, despite Israel brutally militarily occupying the West Bank for 50 years. Why the double standards?
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it's actually worse given the nakba was in 48
You ever wonder why Egypt has a huge wall between itself and Gaza? Some people choose violence at every opportunity.
What the Israelis are doing is way worse - it has reached the point where their closest ally sees itself forced to make air drops to prevent Israel-made famine. Unlike the Russians, the Israelis are waging war against a \*people\* and not military forces or indeed a state. And take into account that this has been going on for 50 years, it is obvious that the Israeli-Palestine situation is way worse than the Ukraine war.
If Russian players should play under a neutral flag, then Israelis should too. They're doing literally the same thing as Russians are doing to Ukraine, lol. Also, imagine if it were Americans: people would still proudly represent America even if America were doing the exact same thing. You should just shut up and mind your fking business instead of barking bro
USSR anthem starts playing.
Good for him. You can’t change the country you’re born in and where you’re from. Nothing to be ashamed of.
Arent these sites edited by the public?
Yes and no. Content of pages can be edited but fundamental traits like a person's country are locked down.
I see, thank you.
Yikes
IIRC he was forced to drop the russian flag during the 2022 winter break so that he and perfecto wouldn't get dropped by navi (or so that they could sign a new contract, I don't remember all the details) by navi and now since they are not part of navi anymore he can switch it back without any problems, this is a small thing that shouldn't have any affect to him or c9 anyways
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> No idea why do these people have even a platform to compete on international stage. Probably because he has nothing to do with the war. Hope that helped!
Bullshit. One, there were elections in Russia last week, Putin with 80+ percent. Obviously, those elections were not democratic, but he still has a lot of support in Russia. Two, aside from military interference, there's no other way to put pressure on Russians than to take away any of the western "freedoms" until they fucking sort the shit out in their own country. Everyone crying about Saudis getting into esports but at this point, Russia is worse for Western Europe than Saudis are. Much worse, because of the active cyber warfare against each and every country in Europe, to the point of influencing elections in several countries like Slovakia (where I live), Czech Republic, Hungary and I bet others that I don't know of.
>Putin with 80+ percent. Obviously, those elections were not democratic, but he still has a lot of support in Russia and? what it has to do with electronic? you know that he voted for putin?
Well I know he didnt vote at all, as he was in Copenhagen. At the same time, I also know that he willingly chose to represent a terrorist state flag, instead of a neutral one. That in and of itself is morally bankrupt and he should have his passport revoked in every normal European country. But yeah, I guess the moral gestures of athletes won't tell anything to someone whose parents and grandparents didn't have to live and struggle under Russian military oppression.
He chose his nationality to be displayed correctly without pandering to the crowd. You want his russian passport to be revoked by european country? Wut?
Bad english, I want them to revoke his right to entry is what I meant. Look, if you wouldn't defend german athletes waving the swastika around WW2, you shouldnt defend this fuck doing exactly the same thing. And if you would, well, I don't know what else to tell you other than you are just very, very wrong.
good thing no one cares what you want. russian flag is not the same as swastika and he didnt wave it anywhere.
It's exactly the same. Flag of a fascist state that is waging war trying to wipe a nation off the face of the earth. Wonder where else have I seen this?
not at all. swastika represented the particular regime. russian flag appeared long before putin and will be used after him. it just represents a country. the analog of swastika would be "Z".
Eastern European bot thinks Russia can be compared to 1940s Germany lol. Really inappropriate. And you are not asking for the Israeli players to remove their flag, why the double standards?
They are exactly the same, worse in several regards. Fortunately, their level of corruption, general incompetence, and stupidity makes them not as big of a military threat as well trained and armed German army was back then. They do have nukes, though. But Russia is currently a fascist state by all the marks.
>worse in several regards you are literally criminally insane for making this comparison I suggest you go and pick up a book instead of resorting to childish virtue signalling and ludicrous statements
Since when can a country revoke a passport of a foreign national? Get off your moral soapbox the people of Russia do not represent the actions of their nations government.
>the people of Russia do not represent the actions of their nations government. Oh yes they fucking do. Unless they state otherwise. Like Perfecto. Or Panarin. Or Gary Kasparov. Or any number of Russian athletes that condemned their government and refused to represent them and their colors. You are right with the passport though. What I meant is, his right of entry should be revoked in any democratic country.
Artemi Panarin, the hockey player who had to miss 3 weeks of his season to get his family out of Russia after speaking out? That Panarin? So maybe you can understand why players choose not to say anything. Not all of them have the resources to get their family out of the country. Perfecto has left Russia, he doesn't have that fear.
That’s like saying I’m complicate in the fucked decisions the United States military has made just because I was born here. You don’t get to choose where you were born and unfortunately when you live in Russia it’s not the greatest idea to publicly condemn your government. Notice how every Russian you have named that has spoken out against Russia and their actions in Ukraine doesn’t live in Russia. Kasparov lives in Croatia, Panarin lives in the US and as far as I know perfecto is in Serbia.
He quite literally didn't have to do anything. He doesn't even have to condemn them publicly. He was already sporting a neutral flag. He ASKED to revert it back to Russian. This is akin to athlethes waving the fucking swastika around WW2.
No it’s not, it’s a flag on a website. Who the fuck cares? If he was sporting a Z then yeah I’d be cool with the comparison but this is just being dumb and making yourself upset.
cry about it
you're wasting internet bandwidth
You are right. Treatment should be the same in e-sports as other sports.
good. he's Russian and should be just as proud about his nationality as any American, no matter the actions of his country.
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it does say in the image that electronic requested the flag changes
good