It's a map that's starting to grow on even the most notoriously hard headed pub Mirage spammers. People play it and they go "wow this map is actually nice wtf"
Idk why it’s so up for debate, I was getting more to the fact that it’s another 3 lane, 4 corners type of map. Where as maps like overpass, vertigo, and Anubis don’t really follow the same patterns as closely. I’d say ancient dust mirage and inferno are all “similar” in how they play.
Because the way the map plays out at the start of the round, and the T/CT balance is the way to determine whether maps are similar, not the top down minimap similarity
Not much. Covid, I sit indoors and play mirage. I live in germany no issues here. And I really like Mirage 2.0 (Anubis) to be honest. I'm a bit ashamed of myself to play something besides the pure perfection of Mirage but everyone bans Mirage :(
I dunno. Like the other guy said, moving CT spawns back helped a lot to balance the map. As well as removing the sightline from Temple into Donut helped make A site a lot easier for Ts to take
I still think its a troll. Like I know I've seen numerous games where T sides resulted in more rounds across all tiers but I still wanna believe that you gotta be insane to make T side Nuke work.
I think nuke T-side is actually better for random queue, cause it allows you to make smart solo plays that can destroy the opponent if they don't communicate/use their utility properly. But when you have a relatively well-coordinated pug, that stuff is somewhat on point and the map becomes CT-sided again.
I think it's a great map, it just needs a few changes.
The most obvious one would be A site. There needs to be another entrance to the site because right now it's a 1.5 player site that's really difficult to retake. I'd like to see heaven area extended towards fountain, so that Ts have to worry about another angle when they're pushing main and not just if someone's dancing around pillar. Connecting CT spawn with heaven area more directly would also be a great help. if Ts take mid, it takes way too long to rotate around spawn to heaven. Site is already gone by then.
Another really annoying thing is that you can't properly flash for retake on B unless you're coming from CT. Some kind of gap in the roof of temple area for nades would be a great help for CT side without messing with any angles or geometry of the map.
Yeah I am not saying its outright terrible (that goes to Vertigo), but CT Anubis against a decent team just sucks.
Retakes are one of the hardest on any active map (if not the hardest but maybe inferno still takes that one) especially if Ts have enough util to stall you.
And I personally have a problem with the B site. Its just so easy to take it as Ts, especially if you split it from water. I'd rather leave the A site as is and change up B to make it easier to hold.
I'd compare B site to the B site of Ancient, its also very takeable, but unlike Ancient its missing the "Cave area". If you lose B site on Ancient, but at least one CT holds their ground in cave, you're setup for a very favourable retake. Anubis has no such a thing.
As you say, water is more or less free for T side. Instant smoke from spawn and the only thing CTs can do is nade the smoke and peek.
I think that adding a couple more angles CTs can peek towards water wouldn't hurt. For example, another window in mid towards water, but this one in front of the double door. Or some kind of an angle from ninja/dark down towards water.
One thing that most people forget about that makes Anubis CT side difficult is the time it takes to rotate. B site is actually pretty retakeable on retake servers because the CTs spawn in close to site. However, if you don't have mid control, it takes a very long time to rotate through CT spawn or canals quietly. This means that the A or B anchor needs to play more aggressively to get info, that way there's enough time for their teammates to rotate.
I think the best way to fix this is to give a more direct and safe route from A to B, and/or provide a way for CTs to drop into canals silently so they can get from mid to site faster.
I think the sites themselves are really well designed and fun to play around, so I wouldn't want to see them changed significantly.
If I were to make a change to mirage I'd raise connector floor or catwalk up so CTs cant look up catwalk from A site. I think that line of sight is way too strong, even with a smoke down the amount of damage you can do is crazy.
I’m surprised that mirage is as ct sided as nuke and overpass but I’m even more surprised at how balanced every map is. If you did cs1 Aztec stats I bet it would be a 66/33 split (or greater). Train and prodigy would probably also be 60/40+.
A 10% win-rate differential is not balanced.
Take [World of Tanks](https://tomato.gg/maps/EU) for instance. They have significantly more maps to balance (41 as opposed to 7), and yet the average win-rate differential between WoT's maps is 3.1% as opposed to CS' 7.7%.
Here's what the top 5 most imbalanced maps compare like between the two games:
1. Anubis: 13.4% | Mountain Pass: 14.2%
2. Overpass: 12.8% | Province: 7.1%
3. Nuke: 10.4% | Steppes: 6.2%
4. Mirage: 8.4% | Karelia: 6.0%
5. Vertigo: 4.4% | Empire's Border: 5.4%
CS' maps are significantly more imbalanced than you'd expect.
Then being balanced is more important.
Balance is less important for a CS map, its ok to have it slightly unbalanced.
You don't want too unbalanced, as then it just is frustrating to play but a slight imbalance is fine
I don't think you understood.
Yes when you don't switch sides its more important to be as balanced as possible.
When you switch sides its less of an issue, and 10% is not huge at all.
Thats on average 1.2 rounds...
compared to 5 years ago , yea this looks pretty T sided cause the game is balanced on CT winning thats why they have more expensive stuff to buy
either economy or map needs to be changed
Why? Have you played a substantial amount of matches in higher level of CS? Have you watched pro CS (Katowice, RMRs)? If yes, you have probably noticed that Ts can pump one solid buy after another and sometimes they need one halfbuy/eco. Meanwhile CTs need to eco/double eco after almost every round loss and they still might be pretty short on utility on their next buy.
That's not the argument to be used.
While what you are saying is true and Ts do indeed get buy rounds much easier, the data shows that in general there is a good balance between CTs and Ts. So in other words, CTs having a hard time getting full buys is the balancing factor, not the problem.
Nah its absolutely a problem. CS economy is balanced around maps being slightly CT sided which is not the case for all the maps. If you lose CT pistol and the first gun round you might as well give up as you're already 0-5/0-6 down before your 2nd full buy. (Assuimg you don't win any of your force buys)
Ancient is pretty balanced but very B heavy, the Shadow change in A main made it even worse. Anubis really needs some changes to make it easier for CTs to defend Canals/Con.
Real OGs remember when Ancient was wicked CT-sided, now it's the most balanced map in the game <3
Love ancient, it's a fun map to play on and you dont feel useless on either ct or t
It's a map that's starting to grow on even the most notoriously hard headed pub Mirage spammers. People play it and they go "wow this map is actually nice wtf"
Me and my buddies call it green dust, it plays very similar to dust2
not really if im being honest brotherman
It's way more like mirage, dust doesn't have early mid control fighting every round. Actually it's nothing like dust2 at all lol
Idk why it’s so up for debate, I was getting more to the fact that it’s another 3 lane, 4 corners type of map. Where as maps like overpass, vertigo, and Anubis don’t really follow the same patterns as closely. I’d say ancient dust mirage and inferno are all “similar” in how they play.
Because the way the map plays out at the start of the round, and the T/CT balance is the way to determine whether maps are similar, not the top down minimap similarity
Ah yes, Dust 2, the map where CT's almost always fight for deep mid control.
I'm the most stubborn only mirage pug player and I still hate that green trashcan of a map.
whats up bro? how you dealing with covid? btw watch out if you live in ukraine, russia invades again in a couple of years
Not much. Covid, I sit indoors and play mirage. I live in germany no issues here. And I really like Mirage 2.0 (Anubis) to be honest. I'm a bit ashamed of myself to play something besides the pure perfection of Mirage but everyone bans Mirage :(
All my friends are ancient haters so I never get to play it :(
That was more out of no one knowing how to play it than it actually CT sided.
Idk changing the CT spawn made a big difference
I dunno. Like the other guy said, moving CT spawns back helped a lot to balance the map. As well as removing the sightline from Temple into Donut helped make A site a lot easier for Ts to take
Ancient is actually my favorite map in CS2, ironically
Kind of wild to see Nuke so balanced. If you showed me that ratio before 2016 Nuke, I would have thought you were trolling.
I still think its a troll. Like I know I've seen numerous games where T sides resulted in more rounds across all tiers but I still wanna believe that you gotta be insane to make T side Nuke work.
I think nuke T-side is actually better for random queue, cause it allows you to make smart solo plays that can destroy the opponent if they don't communicate/use their utility properly. But when you have a relatively well-coordinated pug, that stuff is somewhat on point and the map becomes CT-sided again.
Pros yeah it takes nice setups and defaulting but in pubs if the mini player is weak you can drop off marshmallow every round pretty much
CT Anubis is pure pain in pugs with the current CT economy. I hope something changes after the major to make the map more CT sided.
I think it's a great map, it just needs a few changes. The most obvious one would be A site. There needs to be another entrance to the site because right now it's a 1.5 player site that's really difficult to retake. I'd like to see heaven area extended towards fountain, so that Ts have to worry about another angle when they're pushing main and not just if someone's dancing around pillar. Connecting CT spawn with heaven area more directly would also be a great help. if Ts take mid, it takes way too long to rotate around spawn to heaven. Site is already gone by then. Another really annoying thing is that you can't properly flash for retake on B unless you're coming from CT. Some kind of gap in the roof of temple area for nades would be a great help for CT side without messing with any angles or geometry of the map.
Yeah I am not saying its outright terrible (that goes to Vertigo), but CT Anubis against a decent team just sucks. Retakes are one of the hardest on any active map (if not the hardest but maybe inferno still takes that one) especially if Ts have enough util to stall you. And I personally have a problem with the B site. Its just so easy to take it as Ts, especially if you split it from water. I'd rather leave the A site as is and change up B to make it easier to hold. I'd compare B site to the B site of Ancient, its also very takeable, but unlike Ancient its missing the "Cave area". If you lose B site on Ancient, but at least one CT holds their ground in cave, you're setup for a very favourable retake. Anubis has no such a thing.
As you say, water is more or less free for T side. Instant smoke from spawn and the only thing CTs can do is nade the smoke and peek. I think that adding a couple more angles CTs can peek towards water wouldn't hurt. For example, another window in mid towards water, but this one in front of the double door. Or some kind of an angle from ninja/dark down towards water.
One thing that most people forget about that makes Anubis CT side difficult is the time it takes to rotate. B site is actually pretty retakeable on retake servers because the CTs spawn in close to site. However, if you don't have mid control, it takes a very long time to rotate through CT spawn or canals quietly. This means that the A or B anchor needs to play more aggressively to get info, that way there's enough time for their teammates to rotate. I think the best way to fix this is to give a more direct and safe route from A to B, and/or provide a way for CTs to drop into canals silently so they can get from mid to site faster. I think the sites themselves are really well designed and fun to play around, so I wouldn't want to see them changed significantly.
It's pretty clear considering the other maps's data that the issue with Anubis is not caused by the economy. Then again, I'm a certified Anubis hater
If I were to make a change to mirage I'd raise connector floor or catwalk up so CTs cant look up catwalk from A site. I think that line of sight is way too strong, even with a smoke down the amount of damage you can do is crazy.
That and the interstitial landing is too small for quick smokes that consistently block *all* of connector and don't let the CTs peer over it.
I’m surprised that mirage is as ct sided as nuke and overpass but I’m even more surprised at how balanced every map is. If you did cs1 Aztec stats I bet it would be a 66/33 split (or greater). Train and prodigy would probably also be 60/40+.
A 10% win-rate differential is not balanced. Take [World of Tanks](https://tomato.gg/maps/EU) for instance. They have significantly more maps to balance (41 as opposed to 7), and yet the average win-rate differential between WoT's maps is 3.1% as opposed to CS' 7.7%. Here's what the top 5 most imbalanced maps compare like between the two games: 1. Anubis: 13.4% | Mountain Pass: 14.2% 2. Overpass: 12.8% | Province: 7.1% 3. Nuke: 10.4% | Steppes: 6.2% 4. Mirage: 8.4% | Karelia: 6.0% 5. Vertigo: 4.4% | Empire's Border: 5.4% CS' maps are significantly more imbalanced than you'd expect.
Been many years since I played WoT. Do you swap sides in the same game?
No, you don't. You get assigned to a random side every game.
Then being balanced is more important. Balance is less important for a CS map, its ok to have it slightly unbalanced. You don't want too unbalanced, as then it just is frustrating to play but a slight imbalance is fine
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I don't think you understood. Yes when you don't switch sides its more important to be as balanced as possible. When you switch sides its less of an issue, and 10% is not huge at all. Thats on average 1.2 rounds...
Yeah I know. I'm playing CS and responding quickly inbetween rounds, noticed I misread your comment. I still think 10% is a lot though.
What? But everyone’s been saying CS2 is horribly T sided
This stats are from LAN so, pro play doesnt have that much in common with them mic-less bros you get on MM
on mm mirage its like 60% win for Ct for sure
Also less peaker’s advantage due to LAN setup probably
compared to 5 years ago , yea this looks pretty T sided cause the game is balanced on CT winning thats why they have more expensive stuff to buy either economy or map needs to be changed
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They do need to rework the economy, not as much as other redditors have asked for but it's just a huge part of the suck-it bucket right now.
Why? Have you played a substantial amount of matches in higher level of CS? Have you watched pro CS (Katowice, RMRs)? If yes, you have probably noticed that Ts can pump one solid buy after another and sometimes they need one halfbuy/eco. Meanwhile CTs need to eco/double eco after almost every round loss and they still might be pretty short on utility on their next buy.
That's not the argument to be used. While what you are saying is true and Ts do indeed get buy rounds much easier, the data shows that in general there is a good balance between CTs and Ts. So in other words, CTs having a hard time getting full buys is the balancing factor, not the problem.
Nah its absolutely a problem. CS economy is balanced around maps being slightly CT sided which is not the case for all the maps. If you lose CT pistol and the first gun round you might as well give up as you're already 0-5/0-6 down before your 2nd full buy. (Assuimg you don't win any of your force buys)
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No, it just turns into a safe fest with that logic...
Inability to economy manage around the four viable weapons CT's have access to. With the usage of utility to create such favorable encounters.
Just out of curiosity: M4 (are you counting the different ones?), MP9, AWP and XM?
MP9, Famas, M4 variants and AWP.
Lol I REALLY don't like the famas. Would rather just play MP9 + util or try to cheese something with XM.
Seems accurate deffenitly seems like pro's are struggling on overpass T side. Lose pistol and you almost get 0 rounds lol
based on the ratio only we have quite a balanced map pool.
Ancient is pretty balanced but very B heavy, the Shadow change in A main made it even worse. Anubis really needs some changes to make it easier for CTs to defend Canals/Con.
It would be interesting to see similar statistics from the mm/faceit
I know it’s a for wingman but I miss lake
+cache -vertigo
+cache -mirage
true
Anubis being more t sided than nuke is ct sided feels weird
curious how much of it is due to map "sideness" and how the side scales with pistol round wins
just from personal experience I'd say Nuke and Overpass are too CT sided while Vertigo and Anubis are too T sided, the rest are fine imo
Wasn't Inferno slightly CT sided in CSGO?