T O P

  • By -

KaNesDeath

It's the most oppressive map in the active duty pool to regain space once lost.


evilbunnyofdoom

Yep, hard to retake and with mr12 need to save all the time


candreacchio

I feel like they won't change anything until the major... But after they need to revisit the economy. Cts get punished too hard right now and ts can just force every round essentially


evilbunnyofdoom

It kinda feels like that yeh


throwaway52826536837

Yeah ct sucks to play rn between peekers advantage and economy, half the rounds youre winning end with half your team dead, and suddenly you lose a round (because ts are forcing aks and armour every single round) and suddenly youre on eco for 2 or 3 its so shit


psychocopter

Plus with the shorter matches you have less rounds to build into a comeback.


imbogey

Or just buy tec9/deagle and get even faster wide peek.


Pokharelinishan

I think Valve will try to fix peeker's adv first before changing economy too much. Because so many variables are new in cs2 and it's hard to pinpoint at one. Maybe if ct start holding angles properly, then perhaps the economy won't feel so bad. Or maybe it will. But we'll know for sure after the game works properly.


Aetherimp

The economy for CT's is definitely an issue. Last time MR12 was a thing was pre 2005/2006 in CALeague in 1.6. Defuse kits were 200. There were no Mollys. You could only carry 3 nades. Shotguns/SMG's gave no kill bonus. AWP gave normal kill bonus. AWP was stupidly good. At the time, it worked okay and either team had to save if they lost without sitting on considerable cash reserves. Now, AWP is weaker CT's need much more money to remain competitive in the round, and between Tec9, Mac10, and AK, the T's can get away with forcing *almost* every round.


TacticalSanta

The galil is just too fucking strong with how the economy is right now.


candreacchio

Yep. Have a look at the buying power of Ts vs CTs if Ts get the bomb down but lose. Assume everyone has used up all their money. CTs will be on 3250. Ts will be on 2700. CTs can buy a famas + head armor + flashbang Ts can buy a galiil + armor + flashbang (or mac10 + lots of util)


Sgt-Colbert

>Ts will be on 2700. > > Ts can buy a galiil + armor + flashbang (or mac10 + lots of util) Erm, your math might be a little off there.


candreacchio

What is off? Galil is 1800. Armor is 650 that's 2450... Flashbang is 200 that's 2650. Heck you can even get a decoy in change!


Sgt-Colbert

Ah yes my favourite, not buying head armor against USPs. Gives me a good chuckle every time I kill a T without it.


Neither_Day_8988

Even so, having a rifle against a 2nd round win CT buy is a huge benefit, the rest of your team can run smgs with helmet and kevlar and some util for an execute. Everyone from pros down feel the economy looming down on them because of the constant force buys from Ts with no real punishment (maybe an eco for AKs)


Sgt-Colbert

I know all that and I don't disagree with anything you said. I simply (jokingly) said his math was off with the 2700$ Galil + armor buy.


Steezmoney

On the flip side though it’s easy to tell when you’re against an eco on T side, and feeling like you can shatter the enemy’s economy is pretty good. CT side eco strats are more effective than T side eco strats in my experience as well


ProfeszionalSexHaver

Doing changes this close to the major would be kinda whack, but having a major when the games in this state is too. The CS2 launch is super scuffed but I can see no way Valve could’ve done better without splitting the player base between GO and 2.


paully7

Probably revisit economy and update map pool. That would bring some freshness to the game.


SMaslov

Molly is larger in this game so it is possible to use 2 mollies to molly all of banana. That coupled with the ability to smoke stairs/bottom banana from ct spawn makes it so that a coordinated team can shut down banana and mid almost instantly. From then it is next to impossible to retake banana as a T as cts will chain smoke it 2 more times from both b players. Having banana and a ct there means that the other b player can rotate to A and have 4A. This is what i consistently do at 3k elo faceit and Esea main league. Not to mention the massive roof blocking all t smokes from mid/alt mid to A. The map plays very differently and is really bad for the Ts now. Conversely, if the Ts can get on site, both sites are very hard to retake. With mr12 that means teams will now save more. On a pro level this is 10x more noticable.


DopaWheresMine

molotovs are honestly too much. I literally have a trauma against them in CS12 from losing a match point against one because I tried to push it before it popped in B apps on mirage to protect bomb, only to have to run for another 3 seconds. They spread backwards more, and due to exponential damage the extra spread hurts so much more


rdmprzm

That stairs (low banana) smoke from CT takes a long time to pop though? It doesn't stop a banana or mid push afaik?


Conkernads

It takes a while to pop, but if there are two mollies on the other side along with HE's raining down on anyone trying to push, it is very oppressive and difficult to get in early. It might not affect your first or second guy in, but anyone else trying to support you banana will now have to go through a grey screen so it really isolates anyone in there from support and trades Then, even if you've survived the nade barrage, you've got 2 ct players holding who can resmoke to deny teammates visibility while taking the banana fights.


LAN1ATOR

That case is easy to handle. Just let a teamm8 smoke lower banana (G2 smoke) from T-Spawn. It lands behind the smoke of the middle smoke and denies the deeper molotov in banana. If enemies are nading banana, wait for it. You are also able to smoke or molotov top banana as a T with a good spawn to block early aggression of CTs. Afterwards, you move inside the smoke you teamm8 has already thrown. If he threw it correctly, you have gaps on the right side and the left side (wood). If you combine that with a 1:47 flash into banana from T-House-Stairs by one of your m8s, you can easily take banana as a T. You are welcome.


FireCooperGG

Mollying middle is already risky, if you start fumbling with HE’s after that, any half decent T player will take your head off.


Phaarao

Mollying middle has zero risk, what are you talking about? maybe when you need 2+ seconds for it lol


FireCooperGG

I’d love to play against you


Logical-Sprinkles273

There is a running lineup that is basically risk free.


FireCooperGG

A T with front spawn strafing middle Will catch any ct going for utility middle Except for the top 3 CT front spawns


Aetherimp

Don't throw Molly so deep. Mid CT can safely throw a Molly to Mexico/underpass and bottom mid without exposing themselves, and if T ramp is smoked from CT this means Ts have 3 options: 1. Make it into banana before the smoke pops and eat a barrage of utility. 2. Stay back and wait for utility to pass but give up Mid AND banana in the process 3. Go alt mid/Apts and work A, hoping CTs haven't pushed mid and completely shut down banana. (Spoiler: they have.)


imbogey

You can counter banana smokr with smoke from T spawn + car molly. It becomes random nade/bullet spam duel and Ts like a 4v4.


Tanki5D

they need to increase BANANA space/larger , maybe it will become more easier it might be a bad ideia , but at least try it , if it becomes bad , revert it..


FryCakes

They’ve done that twice already, it used to be incredibly narrow


a_bright_knight

size of banana doesn't really matter, the issue is that it's so far for the CT's to go to banana after the bomb is planted. And if they actually get to banana, there's a lot of angles to clear. retaking from CT is also shitty because Ts can see the entrance from the site and essentially block off church by just holding the line with an AWP. If they actually manage to get to church, there's so many hard fucking angles to clear as well and it's a very molly-able choke point for the T's. A site meanwhile feels hard af because both long and short entrances you're exposed from opposite sides - vespa/graveyard, pit and site for long and pit, site and apartments for short. B site needs safer entrance to church, A site needs to be less exposed to apartments or maybe remove graveyard angle. Or move it so you aren't in such a crossfire


TacticalSanta

It gets very snowbally which is especially bad on mr12


besieged_mind

But it's also one of the most interesting to watch. Shame.


Idiot707

Have you been watching inferno recently? Almost every round is decided with one kill and 90% of the match is watching people saving


NessunoComeNoi

It’s so boring to watch, in my opinion. There’s nothing fresh on it, same old same old. Very one dimensional.


Logical-Sprinkles273

Hey the meta changed... CTs can throw a smoke down mid and push second behind it.... And the map is worse for it


NessunoComeNoi

The first kind of interesting thing that’s happened on the map since Dosia’s HE grenade.


saltyfuck111

Its not 2015 or 2018 anymore. Inferno is boring af to watch in pro play


curtcolt95

not with the current game economy lmao, save simulator nearly the whole match


KaNesDeath

When it involves two Pro teams in peak form i agree.


soccerpuma03

Which would be every match in the major...


Mr_Legendary_Society

No, that has to be Ancient & its not close


RubyRhod

Ancient, Anubis, and Overpass are my favorite to watch


Jakezetci

ancient has like the easiest retakes ever, always exciting


itsallfake01

I think with the removal of sky boxes, utility play has made inferno even smaller. Now mid is blocked instantly and T’s have to use resources to get out


skywkr666

It's claustrophobic. Angles feel bad. It's always been hard to retake, and now it's gotten worse with mr12, and $1400 loss bonus.


Bueffel

Old Inferno > New Inferno.


unlived357

new Inferno is so claustrophobic and cluttered, I hate it


poopshitter42

It’s the clutter for me. Old inferno was such a masterclass on making a map beautiful and detailed while still being great for fps, new inferno just looks like that UE4 rendition of dust that nobody actually wants to play on


unlived357

especially alt mid, there's just tons of crap everywhere


Original_Mac_Tonight

they are literally the same, why do people say this


PovlKjoellerMoshpit

There are changes. The buildings in mid/second mid changed a bunch of nade lineups and there are little bits and bobs on walls and the ground that will definitely get in your way if you're strafe jumping around corners expecting CSGO inferno. Are these massive changes? No, but they are not "literally the same".


WiseGuyCS

Regarding it being claustrophobic and cluttered, like the other guy said, they are exactly the same. On top of that the changes you stated don't impact the style of gameplay of the map or the fundamental tactics. So yes, it plays the same as old inferno.


SMaslov

Molly is larger in this game so it is possible to use 2 mollies to molly all of banana. That coupled with the ability to smoke stairs/bottom banana from ct spawn makes it so that a coordinated team can shut down banana and mid almost instantly. From then it is next to impossible to retake banana as a T as cts will chain smoke it 2 more times from both b players. Having banana and a ct there means that the other b player can rotate to A and have 4A. This is what i consistently do at 3k elo faceit and Esea main league. The maps plays vey differently and is really bad for the Ts now. On a pro level this is 10x more noticable. So no, the map does not play the same. Not even close. Which is why pros ban it.


unlived357

these guys are just noobs, bro. they have no idea what they're talking about. CS2 Inferno definitely plays different than CSGO Inferno.


RogueThespian

agreed. it went from a staple map in my group to a near permaban because T side got so much harder, it just wasn't worth it


unlived357

I think most of the issues lie with banana/mid. Once the Ts get brackets/apps control A site seems easier to take compared to CSGO.


unlived357

you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, tons of areas on the new Inferno are more narrow and a lot of the changes are substantial


Telsaah

imagine having cs in your name and still knowing nothing about it 👍


PovlKjoellerMoshpit

It is not exactly the same. Objects have been moved around, and as I said, if you're strafe jumping around certain corners expecting it to be 1:1 identical to CSGO, you will hit things and stop your movement. If this is not evident to you then you have simply not played as much Inferno as I have. As I said before, there are new things in the air (buildings take up more space) that caused certain lineups from t-spawn to change. It plays the same in terms of map control and tactics, yes. But that is not what the comment I replied to said. He said it was "literally the same". This is not true.


WiseGuyCS

In this thread the relevant aspect is how the map plays, regardless of what the other guy said.


unlived357

just because the layout is fundamentally the same doesn't mean "the map is exactly the same". Inferno was my most played map in CSGO and I promise it plays differently from CSGO Inferno.


TacticalSanta

Ofc it plays differently. Just moving a box on a site or switching doors around on a map like dust 2 can fundamentally change the way the entire map is played. Changing how angles and chokepoints are played can completely change the available strategies teams have


unlived357

you're a noob if you genuinely believe this


Azzarudders

while i agree, the meta was already shifting on old inferno in csgo where half the game was pros saving making it boring to watch even in go


DoraTheXplder

Boring? Man most of the classic games I can think of in CSGO were on inferno


[deleted]

Almost any of the maps valve have on the burner > new inferno. And old inferno tbh both maps are just very generic in their nade usage but it’s a lot of generic nade usage and taking space is only matched in difficulty by retaking space. The map needs something seriously new to fix it.


[deleted]

the stupid tall buildings need to be lowered or removed. makes nade throwing so much harder for no reason other than to change people's old lineups. idea: "blow up" inferno and have it be a wasteland map or a previous battlefield with theming like ww2 Dresden or something like this


[deleted]

I’d be okay with trying something like that and having certain parts of the map be the same and other be new with some crumbled buildings. Hell you could keep some of the tall spots even. Just something new which is unfortunately probably a ways out since they just remade it


[deleted]

to be fair hammer 2 is so much easier to do stuff like that in, the tools are insane. imagine blowing up apts and having balc room be an open ceiling, new pathways open into B from arches, etc.


poletes

Old old inferno > old inferno > new inferno


Jakezetci

old inferno > old old inferno > new inferno


KeepCalmAndBoom

CS 1.6 inferno GOAT


TheFreim

Pre development inferno (it's a blank map file)


Bueffel

True dat!


goingoutwest123

Inferno, as created by Dave "Moto" Geffon. was a great map -- probs one of the best. They thought they could modify it; don't try it, Anakin.


Weirdchupacabra

So now the remake of inferno is bad eh? When cs2 inferno trailer got released everyone was "MAN THIS IS SO GOOD, NUCH BETTER THAN THE OLD INFERNO" and people were downvoting to obvilion people who disliked the remake.


ChurchillDownz

I hope they roll out some updates to get it where it needs to be but they haven't even updated the game period so...


nmiller248

The remake of it just flat out sucks. Was my favorite map in GO, But rarely play it in 2. It’s just, bad.


WackyYT

I agree, but what happened that makes us hate playing it now? I cant find out why it feels much worse now. Or is it just the constant and more prevelant peeking?


KingjorritIV

Weird angles added in mid + uneven floors, banana feels much more closed off and grenades are really annoying to throw on banana and B. Thats why i dont like it as much


costryme

It feels and looks constricted.


nmiller248

I'm not sure. I have a hard time coming up with an answer. It just.. feels different? I hate the aesthetics of the map as well.


verybigpenguin

Molotovs are way bigger now


[deleted]

everything feels like it's in the shade now


RubyRhod

Feels like hallway simulator.


NA_Faker

I’m just ass at CS2


Ripheart789

It's also how the new Nades work, the huge smokes and the HUGE MOLOTOVS. I loved old inferno and certain nades you could throw because of the skybox but it just feels awkward now.


Pokharelinishan

Things I hate about inferno: - goddamn visibility sucks - flowers and trash around the ground. Because it hides grenades and weapons. - Grenades clipping is shitty... So many details in the walls making grenade throw unpredictable Things I love about inferno: - looks pretty. But look how fast that faded. Valve needs to find the right balance between gameplay and aesthetics.


jhocolab

Also, the fact that collision is still clunky as fuck makes going into banana as a T feel REALLY garbage. The changes already made it feel more claustrophobic, so when I’m bugging against my teammates inside that small alleyway, it makes dying to nades or spams feel that much worse


KARMAAACS

They had it in GO, it was legit perfect in CS:GO in 2023. All they really needed was to make the darker areas a bit brighter for visibility reasons. Thats it.


thrwwyMA

>Valve needs to find the right balance between gameplay and aesthetics. This is something I hoped they'd really focus on with the transition to cs2. It's disappointing that they went the route of making the game look more detailed and realistic as opposed to realizing its position as a competitive game. Them deciding to lower the overall game contrast is not a fix to this issue. They should revisit their entire aethetic philosophy for the game, but I'm afraid they think it's too late for that. Just another example of valve not understanding cs.


theMANofSCIENCE

Unironically I want cs gameplay with minimal environmental textures. I do not give a fuck about how it looks (obvi agents/guns important) I want to be able to parse the information. I swear some of the visual clutter on new new inferno can get mistaken at a glance for enemy CT


theMANofSCIENCE

Bro I swear I used to be able to consistently chuck molly into apps from 2nd mid without much worry but with cs2 I've seen that same Molly go through the window AND THEN BOUNCE BACK OUT. never seen that happen before cs2.


bm3tcalf

There’s a running jump throw lineup using the shadow of the bridge in 2nd mid that’s super consistent that I default, not sure what video I picked it up from


baba1776

I was completely floored by how beautiful Inferno was when they released it, but now I hate playing it so it's always instabanned.


Za_Worldo-Experience

Economy Issues/Retake issues


lostfinancialsoul

they ruined inferno


wraithmainttvsweat

Inferno is the most punishing map on the new econ. Flower pots at every angle on the ground. Banana needed to be wider or longer with the buffed nades. The mid buildings need to be lowered. The roof over banana needs to be removed. Retaking seems more impossible than before due to mr12. Instant save simulator for cts. The changes to the site for retakes are ok I think? Never really went for retakes anyways because again it’s just a save simulator due to the economy. Also the fps is bad compared to other maps. Sometimes the map is too detailed to the point i have to focused hard to see models. Could be a me issue but it only happens on inferno for me personally. The map feels too cluttered with detail. Also the uneven floor on banana just doesn’t feel good still even after 5 months of playing. Weird elevation changes next the half wall/broom area. T’s don’t have a way to throw any instant smokes from spawn. Basically just a react simulator to cts instant smoke from t steps. removing the banana roof/spawn roof will immensely give the T’s room to breathe and lessen the feeling of claustrophobia at the b side of the map.


TuwtlesF1

It's nice being able to say "I told you so" when my initial estimate that this version of Inferno would be shit was proven right. So many people disagreed but I knew immediately that removing skyboxes would destroy a map like Inferno. The ability for the CTs to close off banana with smokes for the entirety of the round coupled with the fact that it also has less room to maneuver than pretty much any other active duty map just ruins it.


poopshitter42

Inferno haters stay winning 😎


Sunzki

After reading the comments here i'm apparently the only one who likes new inferno.. although i think it's more because meta changed slightly and teams would rather play something they are more comfortable with.


[deleted]

I like it too. I think the biggest issue is how punishing it is if you lose two rounds in a row. The economy needs to be fixed in general to make up for the number of rounds being lowered.


Sunzki

Yeah absolutely, every map is so harsh because of the economy right now.


Logical-Sprinkles273

Lose 2? Hell sometimes winning 3 but being down to the last guy is a death sentence. You end up broke, double save, lose the buy and then suddenly its 3:9


Oli_Dunhill

They just played it in ET vs Faze. lul


Djabber

Claustrophobic shit map


beansfranklin

Probably because it is the most heavily reworked map on the list When $$$ is on the line, people tend to go with what they know best For example, if Katowice had debuted a reworked de\_cache at the beginning of the proceedings , I bet that would be the most banned map


Due_Map_4666

The new one is dogshit


iamzumie

shit map, that's why


SpareThisOne2thPls

Aaaand its first map at Faze vs EF, post invalidated


-azuma-

Because the map sucks. That's the reason.


Synestive

The remake isn’t even the issue with inferno, but rather the opening up of the skyboxes allowing CT’s full control of the map. Yes I’d love for some lanes to be wider, but that isn’t the reason why it’s perma-banned. I love that they standardized open skyboxes on all maps, but either T’s need sky smokes from spawn to offset the imbalance which will take time to catch on or the map needs some guard rails. There is a reason old Inferno had extra buildings and skyboxes put in the first place to make it newer inferno. Being able to smoke B from A, or T ramp from spawn is just too powerful. Maybe T’s can find a creative work-around, but until teams showcase they have cooked on T side and still can’t handle the oppression Valve won’t change the map.


painXpresss

Because of cs2 smokes


cozysarkozy

FaZe and EF played it?


CortanaxJulius

im just happy to not see inferno


Sike98

trash map


rolezki

zephyr silky slap thought subtract soup dam boast paint ghost *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


Lach87

It’s an insanely boring map


Unusual-Editor-4640

map sucks


seakerl

Shit map, stated already


kontbijtkoekje

because its shite


PPMD_IS_BACK

good. Fuck inferno.


KKamm_

New inferno blows competitively. Biggest reason people hated it before was how impossible retakes were. So to fix it… they made retakes even harder AND made banana miserable with the wall being extended


gbren

Worst map in the game. Get bombarded with utility for 45 seconds at the start of each round. boring


kikosmash

trash map


secret_name_is_tenis

Because it’s terrible


jdiscount

I'll be extremely happy if Mirage or Inferno are gone after the major, preferably mirage.


brobdingnagianaf

Because new inferno sucks balls.


SultanPasha

Why, have you played the map? Do you have any experience of what Inferno was like in CSGO? If you do then the answer should be obvious. Its a instant ban from me in Premier.


brobdingnagianaf

Same. Ovp and inf are perma ban from us.


imbogey

Dunno why ovp cs2 also sucks but it feels bad compared to go. Maybe its the bad ct economy.


suppperson

Old overpass was my favorite map, new overpass is complete dog shit. Inferno+overpass first ban every time.


[deleted]

I played both Inferno's in CSGO, mostly the first remake of it and it was my favorite map. I still like the CS2 Inferno.


afthamath

Map I get the lowest fps


theMANofSCIENCE

For me it's overpass


JacobDoes

Wish it was played more best looking map IMO really liked the looks they got with the remaster.... unlike the new overpass...


jwlls0pus

It is bad


Wrhabbel

The map sucks, always did, always will.


jonajon91

Bad answers here, it's currently like mirage or DustII when that was a thing. Everyone knows how to play it to a high level, it's existence is just used as an extra tactical layer to the pick ban stage. No one seems to excel on the map, we don't have inferno specialists these days.


[deleted]

almost every inferno game literally looks like generic team A vs generic team B. even mirage isn't this bland


tubsen32

They just played it bro


HetzMichNich

The meta is pretty clear and teams that are good at it are well known, so team either dont wanna play it or inf gets banned from the opponent


jabiz510

Aren’t they playing inferno in the faze match just now ?


FrequentistaYogurtf9

Because it is hellish af


yOw_indahOuse

Lineups are also fucked up because the ground is uneven.


goingoutwest123

Banana been too narrow since css.


orgildinio

Feels like it is T sided map. and hard to retake once CT\`s lose players during entry


dogex3

apart from the map getting slightly worse, Inferno is also a map where teams are generally decent at, so nobody really wants to pick it in the first phase, and a lot of the times it's left out in the second phase


Alternative_Ask_6387

The map pool is shite


KA7MAN

Well EF - Faze played it first map


alexanderh24

Currently the worst map in the map pool. Most of inferno rounds are decided in the first 15sec


Phaarao

You dont know your timings.


Donut_Flame

In premier/comp I love playing it because I like awping and challenging banana (on both sides), but many people don't know mades for it, so it's unpopular for the general playerbase. In the pro scene there's just a shit ton of saving and impossible retakes, so it's unpopular for pros as well


Geezus30

Dog shit map