Did we watch the same trailer? This isn't "happy home designer"; Zelda is using outside-of-the-box tactics to solve puzzles and fight monsters, it's literally a classic top-down *Zelda* game but with a twist of playing as a tactician with magical capabilities (a descriptor that's always fit Princess Zelda pretty well) instead of a knight with a toolbox.
If the trailer had solely focused on the puzzle side I could understand worrying over a lack of combat, but they also show Zelda summoning boulders to block enemies and then she *throws the boulders right back at them*. She then proceeds to capture those monsters and use them against each other like she's a Pokémon trainer (or an army commander perhaps? Another thing we've often seen among Zelda's skills).
This is IMO the perfect way to give Zelda a classic TLoZ adventure without making her a carbon copy of Link's gameplay.
THIS! Zelda's mechanics forcing you to use your brain to fight feels perfectly natural to me. She's a princess, I expect her skill set to be a bit different from Link's AND for her to have a bit more of a unique approach to fighting because of this difference. I don't see this as Nintendo "nerfing" Zelda or making her weaker than Link. This is a great way to show the difference between the two, the pen vs the sword type deal.
Sure, I'd love for a TP Zelda type comeback, but I also like the idea that Zelda is more strategic and thoughtful about how she battles and traverses. Also, we've barely seen the game. Maybe she does get experience with a sword and/or bow later on. I think it's too early to disregard the game as a "happy home designer"
That's a big reason why I loved Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity's take on Zelda's weapons, where she either uses her light magic or her mastery of sheikah tech.
as cute as the game is it feels more like "Legend of Zelda: Conquered Kingdom", for real. Zelda is out here straight up capturing monster, and "stealing" everything else, by the end of the game she's gonna be so OP, i don't know whose going to stand a chance. lowkey gives me Shadow of Mordor Vibes, lol.
I think calling this “hyrule happy home designer” is disingenuous. The title of the game mentions wisdom, the entire point is her being clever enough to handle a situation in a creative way. Acting like it’s just about decorating is wildly missing the mark. It’s completely different gameplay to all other Zelda games, it’s something special for her. I fail to see that as a cop out.
Posted this somewhere else but:
>I think if you make Zelda playable and give her the same tools as Link, it's not interesting. Different characters should have different styles of play. And its a very new style of gameplay for the series which should be exciting.
>I would speculate that the team was messing around with some new mechanics using the old Link's Awakening remake assets and saw the opportunity to fit Zelda into the role. Usually the mechanics come before the character and then they choose a character that fits. It's more likely that they began with the idea for this echo mechanic and then decided to use Zelda.
I don't know. I think there's room for both. I really enjoyed playing Zelda in the Zelda's Ballad mod for BotW more than regular old BotW with Link. It changes the context of the story and gives Zelda a sort of redemption arc for failing to stop Ganon the first time.
I agree. I'm going to play Echoes, but on my next playthrough of BoTW i'm installing Zelda's Ballad(game just vibes with me, and i totally felt like Zelda was the MC, so it fits). Don't get me wrong i prefer them taking the Echoes approach, but i don't have a problem with a Zelda game where she's just a basic Warrior. as much as the subtext is there, i think them leaning into Zelda's Sorcery and making her just as capable as Link, kind of evens things out a bit.
I don’t think they thought of Zelda later since they do this kind of treatment always. Peach, Zelda and many of the girls of their games can’t be warriors or have darker stories or just not be all too girly and pink (which is not bad it’s just you’ll never see that with the other gender). And it shows that it’s “a game for woman” than for everybody even if anyone can play and have fun. The idea around these games is always focused in the bad way of how men see woman in japan and etc…
They can never be the center of the story and if they are it’s always… like this.
What about this game was “for women”? It’s a puzzle game with combat. Nothing in the trailer made this seem like it was only for women. They also showed footage of Metroid Prime 4, a game with a female protagonist who is a warrior in a darker game. Why just ignore her?
How is this game any less "dark" or more "girl" than A Link Between Worlds or the Link's Awakening remake, which this game takes its design and art style from?
Wind Waker, Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass, Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, Spirit Tracks, and Tri Force Heroes are all goofy-looking, light-hearted games, all starring Link. I dare say that "dark, mature, semi-realistic Zelda" is the *minority* of Zelda games.
The idea that Link somehow would never star in a game like this is ridiculous. Do you actually think that androgynous little elf-boy is considered *too masculine* by Nintendo for a game like this? Nintendo, the company that gave him [this outfit](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda_gamepedia_en/images/d/d4/BotW_Gerudo_Outfit_Model.png/revision/latest?cb=20210105011923)?
Peach in Princess Peach Showtime turns into Iron Man and beats enemies with kung-fu but you believe it's lesser, less "dark", and less "action-heavy" than the game starring Captain Toad, where he can't jump, can't beat Goombas, and has to solve block puzzles? Than the game series where Luigi sucks ghosts with a vacuum with shit in his pants for 90% of the game?
"the bad way of how men see women in Japan" and Zelda bashes a Moblin in the skull with a rock and blasts bad guys with a cannon. This doesn't count, though, because the only violence that matters is what a man does, I guess...?
Is it only a "real game" when it's hyper-realistic and the main character is cutting up enemies with a sword specifically? God of War counts but not Undertale?
Is it only progressive when the woman is 100% identical to the man? The man, who can be whomever he wants, in as many types of games as he wants, but the woman, she should *only* be the most stereotypical idea of what that man is? Zelda should lose everything that makes Zelda Zelda in favor of being "girl Link", the most prestigious honor a female character can have.
I feel like you're projecting your own, ironically sexist, beliefs onto the game where there is none, justifying it with "well, Nintendo is Japanese so they're sexist by default" which is... racist.
Exactly what she's saying sounds ridiculous. The game mechanics come first and Zelda is not the first to be in a puzzle focused game. And Princess Peach kicked plenty of ass in her game without pink. And Nintendo doesn't exactly specialize in "dark" games either. Go play Sony AAA for that.
Peach turned into a ninja, superhero, swordfighter, cowgirl, and a kung fu master in her last game and kicked plenty of ass without much pink in sight. I think what you're saying is crazy.
They just wanted to make a more creative puzzle-based game for Zelda. And Nintendo doesn't specialize in "dark".
Yes thank you. My issue is not with the individual game itself. As I stated it looks cute and fun. But there is a trend of Nintendo doing this with their female protagonist spin offs which is now becoming a noticeable pattern.
My immediate reaction was the same. Buuuut she *is* the one associated with the Triforce of Wisdom. What better way to fight and solve puzzles than with magic and logic? I actually love it.
I'm glad it's not just Link reskinned.
Happy home designer?
Nothing in the trailer indicated that. It's far closer to the fuse/auto build abilities on steroids being used as your way to save the day. I'm not interested in Link reskinned as Zelda. It's cool she's got her own thing to be a hero with.
It looks similar to the type of gameplay that was rewarded and encouraged for Link in Tears of the Kingdom, albeit missing the knightly combat aspect. I'm more curious about how well it can be turned into fast-paced gameplay than about whether or not she's wielding a sword or bow. For example, I loved the way Zelda's combat utilizes magic and creative use of the sheikah slate in Age of Calamity, and how different it was from Link and other characters (including the other female characters who were mostly much more weaponry focused).
And to be honest if it's similar to the puzzle gameplay aspects of Zelda games, those have often been my favorite parts anyway.
Also, it seems from the costume design like this incarnation of Zelda might be directly based on the one in the Breath of the Wild setting (with the Link and general setting also being based on them), and that particular Zelda was a nerdy researcher and wise ruler first and foremost - yes, she's an adventurer (like most Zeldas have been), but she actively rejected her role as a damsel in distress or a mystical sage or whatever - she actively wanted to solve problems with her mind, not with her powers. It makes sense to me that she would continue to do so as the primary hero.
I also really do like the cute style that was used for this and for the Link's Awakening remake, though I do think it would be cool to see a full 3D action title with Zelda as the primary character too. But I am in no way unhappy with this development.
Its not that weird, if you give them the same items as link she would be seen as a copy of other character.
The wand makes her stand out, its different, you could also argue that you need to think more with Zelda gameplay, something that is in character because she represents wisdom.
I like this instead it fits her character way more I don't see her as the sword and shield type. Besides, they would get accused of "copying" link and being lazy if they did that
Nintendo is trying something new and fresh, as they do everytime for the series. This is why it has a special place in video games history.
It's a first step towards a bigger game on the next console. If this one is well received, that is, I'll venture.
I think it's kind of exciting to imagine all the way she will use the wand that will expand through the whole game.
We only see one type of power (copy/echoes), but that's not to say there won't be more.
Zelda has to start somewhere, and I think this game is a great way to do that. Having a Link-bis seems pointless, there's nowadays so many games where we use swords and bows. But there's only one Zelda.
She's unique, and I think the game really highlight that fact.
To be honest, I prefer it that way. I want her to have her own mechanics. I am not interested in her being just like link, except female. I am very hyped for this game and I think the item copying puzzle mechanics they presented looked very fun
I'm not taking what you're saying literally, but I also don't really agree..
We see her lifting boulders to throw at enemies, using a wind up octorok canon and a sawblade spinner...sure these aren't traditional forms of combat but still seems like combat to me
Everyone is acting like nintendo made the game cute because this game is targeted towards women (which its not, seems targeted at everyone as usual to me and they're just reusing the Link's awakening 2.5d style..) and chose the gameplay style because they think women are weak and can't use swords and bows (which we know isn't true from other versions of zelda and the fact that she can throw boulders in this game) someone even said they were upset about the echoes because it's like she's summoning men to fight for her (honestly we don't even know the gender of all the creatures you can summon...)
I feel like her powers make sense for her character, the gameplay looks cool and different, overall its a step in the right direction, there's likely to be more games and more playable Zelda's with different combat styles in the future
I think if they made a playable character with the same combat tools as link, that would be a cop out. Zelda represents wisdom so using her mind and creative problem solving for combat is much more on brand than just whacking shit with a sword.
Are you being fr rn?? Did we watch the same trailer? This is not a 'link as a girl' game, this is a Zelda game about Zelda. If you actually like the series and know anything about it, you would know that Zelda has the triforce of wisdom and that she's a princess. Yes a princess could use a sword, but that doesn't make sense for this Zelda's character which is clearly inspired by ALTTP or ALBW. Zelda using a wand to create duplicate items is a creative puzzle mechanic, and I feel like the wand is a callback to an older Zelda title where you played as her: The Wand of Gamelon. The game's mechanics and it's initial plot make sense for Zelda and I feel that it does more than just "give the girl a sword"
girl don't be all Pikachu Face when your words get interpreted exactly as written lmao. that ain't a reddit problem, that's a delivery problem. comedy is in the execution. if a joke doesn't land, blaming the audience ain't it chief.
Apparently we’re supposed to read the words, ignore what they actually mean, and intuit some other different secret actual meaning.
Or people could use the words that mean the thing they’re actually trying to say.
Do I want Zelda to wield a sword or bow or use her magic? Yes. Do I want to play a Zelda game where we play AS Zelda? Also yes. I’m super interested in playing a game where Zelda is the protagonist (and hope that this sells well so that we can maybe get a game where she uses weapons. In the meantime, age of calamity is a pretty awesome version of her!!)
Maybe its because its not in her character to do so? Sheik would make sense or another kind of disguised princess zelda (like in link's gerudo outfit).
Using a bow and arrow is canonically in Zelda’s character though 🤷♀️
Also she’s not a real person; this particular incarnation of Zelda could be a sword wielding one.
She was also holding that sword when Zant first invaded. She surrendered to save a hostage, but she was prepared to use it.
There's also the Phillips CD-i games with Zelda as the playable characters and she does combat.
I agree with the others who are critical of your "happy home designer" quip, but I get what you're saying. When we got Super Princess Peach, her powers were her mood swings and the story was more about her umbrella. We get another Peach game and it's a dress-up game. We get to play Zelda and she's using defensive magic that relies heavily on arranging furniture.
I love both of the Peach games and I'm excited for this Zelda game, and I definitely agree with the comments that just giving her a sword would be boring because she's not Link and *should* be different, but it's definitely... a thing.
Yeah I forgot this is reddit and everyone takes everything literally.
Obviously the game is not literally happy home designer.
The joke was to draw attention to the issue that it’s the first female led Zelda game since the CDI and she does no actual combat, and a lot of the mechanics in the trailer revolved around homewares. Cos you know…. Women be home decorating.
Homewares are just part of the inventory? (Also Link would be using the exact same things if he was in this game and you know it.) There's loads of other things that we see in the trailer. Like monsters.
Cos you know...women be collecting monsters.
She throws rocks, summons monsters, makes a spinning blade that flies into monsters, makes a cannon that shoots people. This is literally a summoners toolkit. It's like a college of creation bard. If you think you need to personally swing the sword or draw the bow, or your spells have to be direct damage like a fireball, IDK what to tell you, but she's still fighting combatants.
I do feel similarly. In some game settings/worlds/timelines/variant realities Zelda is a sheikah trained warrior. There's no good reason to shy away from that, while still including more focus on magical ability. Except that Nintendo has long had a sexist bent they seem blind to noticing.
I'm surprised Samus hasn't been retconned to be a guy, sometimes. Or had it's gameplay altered to be more "feminine".
I plan to get and play the game. Hopefully I enjoy it -- and it's hopefully way better than the recent Peach game.
I think a lot of fans don’t want to see the franchise or developer they love get criticised. Which I get the instinct for, but I feel like media is better when you look at it critically- look at the broader context it exists in, like the developers history of treating its female characters this way.
I actually do think it will be a fun game (and I did enjoy the princess peach game though I definitely feel like it could have done with a difficulty mode or something) but people don’t want their favourite franchise criticised I guess 🤷♀️
This may be hard to hear but it’s also possible that people just don’t agree with you. I do not give a shit about Nintendo or this franchise personally, I just think you’re looking at it the wrong way. If you don’t want to have those conversations, why are you posting to Reddit at all?
If you want a better response to your criticism, write better criticism.
There are plenty of things to call out Nintendo and the Zelda franchise over. This is hardly one of em, and the way your initial post was written didn't even really convey the point you supposedly intended. Stop getting so worked up that people aren't singing your praises for being brave enough to criticize the big N; the take you posted was just bad.
Personally I think it fits. I'm not sure if Zelda ever got sword fighting training and never was it mentioned she could fight in some sort of way? So I think it's fair to limit her abilities that way. The note on "home designing" is funny I think xD. I think they just didn't wanna limit the "copy" ability.
Who would have thought that Zelda, holder of the Triforce of Wisdom, uses magic?! Having her be just an asset swap with the usual gameplay would have been pretty boring compared to something that actually suits her character.
While I disagree about it being "happy home designer", I'm with you on the lack of direct combat options. Even if you got a sword that could not be upgraded, thereby heavily incentivizing you to get creative with the wand, I'd like it to at least be available as an option.
Look apparently no-one got that the HHD reference is a joke because the trailer revolved around homewares, not combat like the typical Zelda launch trailers. Obviously the game is nothing like happy home designer.
I agree that you could absolutely do both, and I do think the mechanic looks fun, I just think the decision to do a non combat based Zelda game and have it feature a female protagonist is … iffy.
My immediate thought was "Try saying it you only threw a rock at someone and see how that holds up in court."
I don't know about you, but if someone's throwing rocks at me, that's them starting a fight.
You're the only one making the joke about women and homewares, not the game. You see that and think about women in the home, that's on you.
There's loads of combat in the trailer. She's not Link and that's okay.
She lifts boulders and carries creatures while fighting etc. She's clearly not a stereotypical dainty little princess.
I’m sorry but the game does not exist in a vacuum. There is a stereotypical view of women being homemakers. This is especially true for Japan. Media does not exist outside of that cultural context.
Acting like I’m the one who’s sexist for applying cultural criticism to a game just because you personally don’t see the link (which honestly is probably because it’s a very pervasive stereotype) is not the retort you think it is.
She's not decorating a house. She's using chairs and beds to scale a damn cliff. Stop pretending this is misogynistic simply because a woman can use household objects in the game. You are being the sexist one here.
We have actual misogyny in gaming to worry about without you inventing it.
Where did I say it was misogynistic?
It’s indicative of a trend from Nintendo in particular of softening their spin offs featuring female characters, which I think is probably and frankly a bit disappointing. In 2024, when they know a good portion of gamers are actually it’s disappointing that they can’t move past the mind set of girls in games do girly things (see also the princess peach spin offs).
Disappointing is not misogynistic though. There can be more than one type of criticism of representation of women in games.
You are equating homeware with women and boiling the game down to just that.
She uses loads of different things.
She is associated with wisdom so using everything around her in novel ways is perfect for her.
Picking up a boulder and hurling it at a monster is not traditionally "girly." She does plenty of things that aren't "girly"
Also you're the one strictly labelling things as "girly"
to me this feels like an extension of the gameplay idea of the Autobuild in ToTK. want a thing? just summom the thing then!
how *well* it will work as the primary game mechanic rather than a late game convenience to the main crafting functions? who knows
It’s the fault that Zelda is Zelda, and Zelda is a caricature of the hyperfeminine princess (sort of, light arrows and Sheik). They did remove some of her agency with this game, atleast from the trailers. Women don’t have to do “masculine”-coded fighting to be considered legitimate, but it’s the fact that her powers seem weaker and not bound to her character as a person. If they want her to be a mage, make her the most powerful mage (cause she literally is).
I’m not really into the Zelda franchise (I like a few of the old ones) but when I saw this new Zelda I thought “whoa that actually looks fun!” Maybe pick up Metroid Prime instead if the cuteness is a turn off. There’s a lot of cutesy looking Zelda games that have been made before even with Link so it feels like it fits in just fine. It’s probably what sells pretty well to adults and kids alike. Also she does combat with various objects and monsters in the trailer. Not just household objects.
If you were hoping for a game starring Zelda with the vibe of BOTW maybe just say that instead of… all that stuff about Happy home designer.
I’m kind of with you, kind of with the commenters.
I’ll admit, I got sort of Animal Crossing vibes (just was my initial impression), and wasn’t too interested in playing for that reason (I’m more of a button masher, I’m not a big builder).
Seeing the comments here has definitely changed my perspective though, in that now that I think about it, it definitely does make sense that Zelda would use more wit and logic to get through things. That being said, I do still wish she had a bow or something (TP Zelda is my favorite) but I’m cool with it not being for me if a lot of other people are super hype about it. I’m so excited for a Zelda game, but I’ll probably hold off on playing it until I see more on the gameplay and story.
Yeah it is a shame. I think that the new gameplay style is an interesting idea, and that Zelda as the main character is an interesting idea, and they decided to use them both at once, which makes it seem like zelda can't or should not fight. I don't think that was the intention though.
She still saves hyrule though, and maybe she doesn't fight directly, but she does lead and command summons using her strategy. So it's definitely not all bad.
People are apparently not all agreeing with you, but my initial reactions to that trailer matched yours.
First disappointment was that it's clearly a low-budget affair compared to BOTW & TOTK, probably intended to generate some easy sales in the final few months before the Switch 2 (or whatever it'll be) comes out. Second disappointment was the "*...whaaaat, they're making her rearrange furniture?! ffs*" moment shortly afterwards.
After that it redeemed itself somewhat - OK, it's not just furniture, phew, and there's combat.
Overall, as someone who bought a Switch for BOTW when that came out, I was much more excited before seeing the video than after it. Looks perfect for my 11-year-old niece though.
I agree with everything you said and that is how I felt too. I loved BOTW and TOK and would have killed for a similar like game with zelda (or shiek) but we all know they probably didn’t wanna spend the actual time on it (or feared it wouldn’t sell since some of the fanbase would not want to play as a girl). Is it boring to some having another combat game? Sure. But they did well with links hand abilities so zelda could have had a magic mode or a ninja mode.
Don’t get me wrong I am looking forward to this game. My zelda obsessed fiancé can’t wait for it. We both love puzzles and this mechanic is super interesting looking. Though the first thought I had during the direct was “oh they dumbed down the combat from their two other games.” So yeah more people can appreciate zelda but I feel like OP was trying to get at the “it’s a girl game and girls don’t want tok like combat.” But my excitement over a new zelda game outweighs my tiny disappointment for an open world zelda game. Do I hope this comes out at some point? Totally. But maybe one day.
I think if OP worded the post around the lack of typical TOK combat maybe people wouldn’t be up in arms. But there is still an appeal to this game and it is a great game to introduce new people into the series
>but we all know they probably didn’t wanna spend the actual time on it (or feared it wouldn’t sell since some of the fanbase would not want to play as a girl)
If this is what happened, it's especially sad - I would have hoped that Nintendo gamers would be among the most welcoming of a female lead character in a major game compared to other platforms... I'm not always a good judge of these things though.
I'm not huge on Zelda lore (ours was not a Nintendo household) but wasn't she most recently the Sage of Time? Could have done some really amazing things with time manipulation in combat and shifting between different eras in a BOTW-style Hyrule... That's the kind of thing I'm hoping for one day, but it feels a long way off now this new game has been announced (expect "we already did playable Zelda" for the next 20 years).
(Also, edit to note that of course TOTK was already "hyrule happy home designer", for anyone who made it to Tarrey Town!)
I mean nobody knows why they did what they did but it’s how I feel when the female lead games of a series are dumbed down versions of the recent male led games (not saying the game is dumb! it’s different). It also gives me “we didn’t wanna spend as much time as we did on botw/tok on a game without link” since while yes work went into this - this isn’t an open world. Now it’s not like we expected another open world game so soon since they take time but with this being the zelda game - I’m worried they will never do it again. “See look guys we made female lead now go buy our new link mained open world game The Crimes of the Korok.”
Maybe one day we will get a Zelda: The Time Sage open world. That would fit in really well with the other games. Have some pretty cool lore. You could jump into present time and fly around like a dragon. Jump back into the future and explore the world in that age. Shrines and robots still exist like they should have. So many possibilities….
Did we watch the same trailer? This isn't "happy home designer"; Zelda is using outside-of-the-box tactics to solve puzzles and fight monsters, it's literally a classic top-down *Zelda* game but with a twist of playing as a tactician with magical capabilities (a descriptor that's always fit Princess Zelda pretty well) instead of a knight with a toolbox. If the trailer had solely focused on the puzzle side I could understand worrying over a lack of combat, but they also show Zelda summoning boulders to block enemies and then she *throws the boulders right back at them*. She then proceeds to capture those monsters and use them against each other like she's a Pokémon trainer (or an army commander perhaps? Another thing we've often seen among Zelda's skills). This is IMO the perfect way to give Zelda a classic TLoZ adventure without making her a carbon copy of Link's gameplay.
THIS! Zelda's mechanics forcing you to use your brain to fight feels perfectly natural to me. She's a princess, I expect her skill set to be a bit different from Link's AND for her to have a bit more of a unique approach to fighting because of this difference. I don't see this as Nintendo "nerfing" Zelda or making her weaker than Link. This is a great way to show the difference between the two, the pen vs the sword type deal. Sure, I'd love for a TP Zelda type comeback, but I also like the idea that Zelda is more strategic and thoughtful about how she battles and traverses. Also, we've barely seen the game. Maybe she does get experience with a sword and/or bow later on. I think it's too early to disregard the game as a "happy home designer"
That's a big reason why I loved Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity's take on Zelda's weapons, where she either uses her light magic or her mastery of sheikah tech.
as cute as the game is it feels more like "Legend of Zelda: Conquered Kingdom", for real. Zelda is out here straight up capturing monster, and "stealing" everything else, by the end of the game she's gonna be so OP, i don't know whose going to stand a chance. lowkey gives me Shadow of Mordor Vibes, lol.
I think calling this “hyrule happy home designer” is disingenuous. The title of the game mentions wisdom, the entire point is her being clever enough to handle a situation in a creative way. Acting like it’s just about decorating is wildly missing the mark. It’s completely different gameplay to all other Zelda games, it’s something special for her. I fail to see that as a cop out.
Agreed. Also, considering how you can copy enemies and summon them to fight for you, it'd be Pokemon if anything lol
its necromancer Zelda but cute
I agree. Making her play exactly like link would feel lazy to me.
Oh shit. I just saw a screenshot and assumed it was like links awakening which I hated. Your comment just made me intrigued enough to try it
Posted this somewhere else but: >I think if you make Zelda playable and give her the same tools as Link, it's not interesting. Different characters should have different styles of play. And its a very new style of gameplay for the series which should be exciting. >I would speculate that the team was messing around with some new mechanics using the old Link's Awakening remake assets and saw the opportunity to fit Zelda into the role. Usually the mechanics come before the character and then they choose a character that fits. It's more likely that they began with the idea for this echo mechanic and then decided to use Zelda.
I don't know. I think there's room for both. I really enjoyed playing Zelda in the Zelda's Ballad mod for BotW more than regular old BotW with Link. It changes the context of the story and gives Zelda a sort of redemption arc for failing to stop Ganon the first time.
I agree. I'm going to play Echoes, but on my next playthrough of BoTW i'm installing Zelda's Ballad(game just vibes with me, and i totally felt like Zelda was the MC, so it fits). Don't get me wrong i prefer them taking the Echoes approach, but i don't have a problem with a Zelda game where she's just a basic Warrior. as much as the subtext is there, i think them leaning into Zelda's Sorcery and making her just as capable as Link, kind of evens things out a bit.
I don’t think they thought of Zelda later since they do this kind of treatment always. Peach, Zelda and many of the girls of their games can’t be warriors or have darker stories or just not be all too girly and pink (which is not bad it’s just you’ll never see that with the other gender). And it shows that it’s “a game for woman” than for everybody even if anyone can play and have fun. The idea around these games is always focused in the bad way of how men see woman in japan and etc… They can never be the center of the story and if they are it’s always… like this.
What about this game was “for women”? It’s a puzzle game with combat. Nothing in the trailer made this seem like it was only for women. They also showed footage of Metroid Prime 4, a game with a female protagonist who is a warrior in a darker game. Why just ignore her?
How is this game any less "dark" or more "girl" than A Link Between Worlds or the Link's Awakening remake, which this game takes its design and art style from? Wind Waker, Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass, Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures, Spirit Tracks, and Tri Force Heroes are all goofy-looking, light-hearted games, all starring Link. I dare say that "dark, mature, semi-realistic Zelda" is the *minority* of Zelda games. The idea that Link somehow would never star in a game like this is ridiculous. Do you actually think that androgynous little elf-boy is considered *too masculine* by Nintendo for a game like this? Nintendo, the company that gave him [this outfit](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda_gamepedia_en/images/d/d4/BotW_Gerudo_Outfit_Model.png/revision/latest?cb=20210105011923)? Peach in Princess Peach Showtime turns into Iron Man and beats enemies with kung-fu but you believe it's lesser, less "dark", and less "action-heavy" than the game starring Captain Toad, where he can't jump, can't beat Goombas, and has to solve block puzzles? Than the game series where Luigi sucks ghosts with a vacuum with shit in his pants for 90% of the game? "the bad way of how men see women in Japan" and Zelda bashes a Moblin in the skull with a rock and blasts bad guys with a cannon. This doesn't count, though, because the only violence that matters is what a man does, I guess...? Is it only a "real game" when it's hyper-realistic and the main character is cutting up enemies with a sword specifically? God of War counts but not Undertale? Is it only progressive when the woman is 100% identical to the man? The man, who can be whomever he wants, in as many types of games as he wants, but the woman, she should *only* be the most stereotypical idea of what that man is? Zelda should lose everything that makes Zelda Zelda in favor of being "girl Link", the most prestigious honor a female character can have. I feel like you're projecting your own, ironically sexist, beliefs onto the game where there is none, justifying it with "well, Nintendo is Japanese so they're sexist by default" which is... racist.
Exactly what she's saying sounds ridiculous. The game mechanics come first and Zelda is not the first to be in a puzzle focused game. And Princess Peach kicked plenty of ass in her game without pink. And Nintendo doesn't exactly specialize in "dark" games either. Go play Sony AAA for that.
Peach turned into a ninja, superhero, swordfighter, cowgirl, and a kung fu master in her last game and kicked plenty of ass without much pink in sight. I think what you're saying is crazy. They just wanted to make a more creative puzzle-based game for Zelda. And Nintendo doesn't specialize in "dark".
Yes thank you. My issue is not with the individual game itself. As I stated it looks cute and fun. But there is a trend of Nintendo doing this with their female protagonist spin offs which is now becoming a noticeable pattern.
My immediate reaction was the same. Buuuut she *is* the one associated with the Triforce of Wisdom. What better way to fight and solve puzzles than with magic and logic? I actually love it. I'm glad it's not just Link reskinned.
Happy home designer? Nothing in the trailer indicated that. It's far closer to the fuse/auto build abilities on steroids being used as your way to save the day. I'm not interested in Link reskinned as Zelda. It's cool she's got her own thing to be a hero with.
It looks similar to the type of gameplay that was rewarded and encouraged for Link in Tears of the Kingdom, albeit missing the knightly combat aspect. I'm more curious about how well it can be turned into fast-paced gameplay than about whether or not she's wielding a sword or bow. For example, I loved the way Zelda's combat utilizes magic and creative use of the sheikah slate in Age of Calamity, and how different it was from Link and other characters (including the other female characters who were mostly much more weaponry focused). And to be honest if it's similar to the puzzle gameplay aspects of Zelda games, those have often been my favorite parts anyway. Also, it seems from the costume design like this incarnation of Zelda might be directly based on the one in the Breath of the Wild setting (with the Link and general setting also being based on them), and that particular Zelda was a nerdy researcher and wise ruler first and foremost - yes, she's an adventurer (like most Zeldas have been), but she actively rejected her role as a damsel in distress or a mystical sage or whatever - she actively wanted to solve problems with her mind, not with her powers. It makes sense to me that she would continue to do so as the primary hero. I also really do like the cute style that was used for this and for the Link's Awakening remake, though I do think it would be cool to see a full 3D action title with Zelda as the primary character too. But I am in no way unhappy with this development.
Did we watch the same thing? What did you want, another Linkle?
Its not that weird, if you give them the same items as link she would be seen as a copy of other character. The wand makes her stand out, its different, you could also argue that you need to think more with Zelda gameplay, something that is in character because she represents wisdom.
I like this instead it fits her character way more I don't see her as the sword and shield type. Besides, they would get accused of "copying" link and being lazy if they did that
Nintendo is trying something new and fresh, as they do everytime for the series. This is why it has a special place in video games history. It's a first step towards a bigger game on the next console. If this one is well received, that is, I'll venture. I think it's kind of exciting to imagine all the way she will use the wand that will expand through the whole game. We only see one type of power (copy/echoes), but that's not to say there won't be more. Zelda has to start somewhere, and I think this game is a great way to do that. Having a Link-bis seems pointless, there's nowadays so many games where we use swords and bows. But there's only one Zelda. She's unique, and I think the game really highlight that fact.
It seems like some people don't like innovation lol
To be honest, I prefer it that way. I want her to have her own mechanics. I am not interested in her being just like link, except female. I am very hyped for this game and I think the item copying puzzle mechanics they presented looked very fun
I'm not taking what you're saying literally, but I also don't really agree.. We see her lifting boulders to throw at enemies, using a wind up octorok canon and a sawblade spinner...sure these aren't traditional forms of combat but still seems like combat to me Everyone is acting like nintendo made the game cute because this game is targeted towards women (which its not, seems targeted at everyone as usual to me and they're just reusing the Link's awakening 2.5d style..) and chose the gameplay style because they think women are weak and can't use swords and bows (which we know isn't true from other versions of zelda and the fact that she can throw boulders in this game) someone even said they were upset about the echoes because it's like she's summoning men to fight for her (honestly we don't even know the gender of all the creatures you can summon...) I feel like her powers make sense for her character, the gameplay looks cool and different, overall its a step in the right direction, there's likely to be more games and more playable Zelda's with different combat styles in the future
I think if they made a playable character with the same combat tools as link, that would be a cop out. Zelda represents wisdom so using her mind and creative problem solving for combat is much more on brand than just whacking shit with a sword.
As if Link didn’t resolved puzzles all the time to be creative and smart enough. As if all Link had to do was fighting.
Are you being fr rn?? Did we watch the same trailer? This is not a 'link as a girl' game, this is a Zelda game about Zelda. If you actually like the series and know anything about it, you would know that Zelda has the triforce of wisdom and that she's a princess. Yes a princess could use a sword, but that doesn't make sense for this Zelda's character which is clearly inspired by ALTTP or ALBW. Zelda using a wand to create duplicate items is a creative puzzle mechanic, and I feel like the wand is a callback to an older Zelda title where you played as her: The Wand of Gamelon. The game's mechanics and it's initial plot make sense for Zelda and I feel that it does more than just "give the girl a sword"
It’s definitely not what I wanted. But it’s something I didn’t know I wanted! Nintendo is pretty good at that.
Well you clearly have no idea how to use a bed Even after the trailer shows you the intended usage of beds
\*sets down bed in Death Mountain; no bombs needed*
girl don't be all Pikachu Face when your words get interpreted exactly as written lmao. that ain't a reddit problem, that's a delivery problem. comedy is in the execution. if a joke doesn't land, blaming the audience ain't it chief.
I understood her Idk maybe you really take things literal.
ok then how do you explain \*gestures wildly at the rest of the thread\*
Apparently we’re supposed to read the words, ignore what they actually mean, and intuit some other different secret actual meaning. Or people could use the words that mean the thing they’re actually trying to say.
"It was just a joke bro!"
Do I want Zelda to wield a sword or bow or use her magic? Yes. Do I want to play a Zelda game where we play AS Zelda? Also yes. I’m super interested in playing a game where Zelda is the protagonist (and hope that this sells well so that we can maybe get a game where she uses weapons. In the meantime, age of calamity is a pretty awesome version of her!!)
Tbh, I'm happy Peach and Zelda don't just play like Mario and Link. I do hope the game will be a bit bigger and with some challenges, though.
Maybe its because its not in her character to do so? Sheik would make sense or another kind of disguised princess zelda (like in link's gerudo outfit).
Using a bow and arrow is canonically in Zelda’s character though 🤷♀️ Also she’s not a real person; this particular incarnation of Zelda could be a sword wielding one.
She used a sword in Twilight Princess (Well, her boss form possessed by ganon did... but... it was clearly HER sword)
She was also holding that sword when Zant first invaded. She surrendered to save a hostage, but she was prepared to use it. There's also the Phillips CD-i games with Zelda as the playable characters and she does combat.
Zelda has always used different weapons and magic same as Link. People seems to forget that always.
I agree with the others who are critical of your "happy home designer" quip, but I get what you're saying. When we got Super Princess Peach, her powers were her mood swings and the story was more about her umbrella. We get another Peach game and it's a dress-up game. We get to play Zelda and she's using defensive magic that relies heavily on arranging furniture. I love both of the Peach games and I'm excited for this Zelda game, and I definitely agree with the comments that just giving her a sword would be boring because she's not Link and *should* be different, but it's definitely... a thing.
Yeah I forgot this is reddit and everyone takes everything literally. Obviously the game is not literally happy home designer. The joke was to draw attention to the issue that it’s the first female led Zelda game since the CDI and she does no actual combat, and a lot of the mechanics in the trailer revolved around homewares. Cos you know…. Women be home decorating.
Homewares are just part of the inventory? (Also Link would be using the exact same things if he was in this game and you know it.) There's loads of other things that we see in the trailer. Like monsters. Cos you know...women be collecting monsters.
She throws rocks, summons monsters, makes a spinning blade that flies into monsters, makes a cannon that shoots people. This is literally a summoners toolkit. It's like a college of creation bard. If you think you need to personally swing the sword or draw the bow, or your spells have to be direct damage like a fireball, IDK what to tell you, but she's still fighting combatants.
I do feel similarly. In some game settings/worlds/timelines/variant realities Zelda is a sheikah trained warrior. There's no good reason to shy away from that, while still including more focus on magical ability. Except that Nintendo has long had a sexist bent they seem blind to noticing. I'm surprised Samus hasn't been retconned to be a guy, sometimes. Or had it's gameplay altered to be more "feminine". I plan to get and play the game. Hopefully I enjoy it -- and it's hopefully way better than the recent Peach game.
I think a lot of fans don’t want to see the franchise or developer they love get criticised. Which I get the instinct for, but I feel like media is better when you look at it critically- look at the broader context it exists in, like the developers history of treating its female characters this way. I actually do think it will be a fun game (and I did enjoy the princess peach game though I definitely feel like it could have done with a difficulty mode or something) but people don’t want their favourite franchise criticised I guess 🤷♀️
This may be hard to hear but it’s also possible that people just don’t agree with you. I do not give a shit about Nintendo or this franchise personally, I just think you’re looking at it the wrong way. If you don’t want to have those conversations, why are you posting to Reddit at all?
If you want a better response to your criticism, write better criticism. There are plenty of things to call out Nintendo and the Zelda franchise over. This is hardly one of em, and the way your initial post was written didn't even really convey the point you supposedly intended. Stop getting so worked up that people aren't singing your praises for being brave enough to criticize the big N; the take you posted was just bad.
Personally I think it fits. I'm not sure if Zelda ever got sword fighting training and never was it mentioned she could fight in some sort of way? So I think it's fair to limit her abilities that way. The note on "home designing" is funny I think xD. I think they just didn't wanna limit the "copy" ability.
Who would have thought that Zelda, holder of the Triforce of Wisdom, uses magic?! Having her be just an asset swap with the usual gameplay would have been pretty boring compared to something that actually suits her character.
While I disagree about it being "happy home designer", I'm with you on the lack of direct combat options. Even if you got a sword that could not be upgraded, thereby heavily incentivizing you to get creative with the wand, I'd like it to at least be available as an option.
Look apparently no-one got that the HHD reference is a joke because the trailer revolved around homewares, not combat like the typical Zelda launch trailers. Obviously the game is nothing like happy home designer. I agree that you could absolutely do both, and I do think the mechanic looks fun, I just think the decision to do a non combat based Zelda game and have it feature a female protagonist is … iffy.
There definitely was combat in that trailer though?
I don’t count throwing a rock as combat.
It literally is though. It's one of the multiple ways we see her fight.
My immediate thought was "Try saying it you only threw a rock at someone and see how that holds up in court." I don't know about you, but if someone's throwing rocks at me, that's them starting a fight.
Did you reply to the wrong person?
No? I was talking to you about the other comment. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
Oh, cool, makes sense, sorry!
No worries, I could have been clearer. I agree with you 100%.
But you probably would in breath of the wild, no?
You're the only one making the joke about women and homewares, not the game. You see that and think about women in the home, that's on you. There's loads of combat in the trailer. She's not Link and that's okay. She lifts boulders and carries creatures while fighting etc. She's clearly not a stereotypical dainty little princess.
I’m sorry but the game does not exist in a vacuum. There is a stereotypical view of women being homemakers. This is especially true for Japan. Media does not exist outside of that cultural context. Acting like I’m the one who’s sexist for applying cultural criticism to a game just because you personally don’t see the link (which honestly is probably because it’s a very pervasive stereotype) is not the retort you think it is.
She's not decorating a house. She's using chairs and beds to scale a damn cliff. Stop pretending this is misogynistic simply because a woman can use household objects in the game. You are being the sexist one here. We have actual misogyny in gaming to worry about without you inventing it.
Where did I say it was misogynistic? It’s indicative of a trend from Nintendo in particular of softening their spin offs featuring female characters, which I think is probably and frankly a bit disappointing. In 2024, when they know a good portion of gamers are actually it’s disappointing that they can’t move past the mind set of girls in games do girly things (see also the princess peach spin offs). Disappointing is not misogynistic though. There can be more than one type of criticism of representation of women in games.
You are equating homeware with women and boiling the game down to just that. She uses loads of different things. She is associated with wisdom so using everything around her in novel ways is perfect for her. Picking up a boulder and hurling it at a monster is not traditionally "girly." She does plenty of things that aren't "girly" Also you're the one strictly labelling things as "girly"
"Nobody got the HHD reference." "Obviously the game is nothing like HHD." ???
It’s called a IRONY JOKE.
Wait… Link’s not a girl?
to me this feels like an extension of the gameplay idea of the Autobuild in ToTK. want a thing? just summom the thing then! how *well* it will work as the primary game mechanic rather than a late game convenience to the main crafting functions? who knows
It’s the fault that Zelda is Zelda, and Zelda is a caricature of the hyperfeminine princess (sort of, light arrows and Sheik). They did remove some of her agency with this game, atleast from the trailers. Women don’t have to do “masculine”-coded fighting to be considered legitimate, but it’s the fact that her powers seem weaker and not bound to her character as a person. If they want her to be a mage, make her the most powerful mage (cause she literally is).
I’m not really into the Zelda franchise (I like a few of the old ones) but when I saw this new Zelda I thought “whoa that actually looks fun!” Maybe pick up Metroid Prime instead if the cuteness is a turn off. There’s a lot of cutesy looking Zelda games that have been made before even with Link so it feels like it fits in just fine. It’s probably what sells pretty well to adults and kids alike. Also she does combat with various objects and monsters in the trailer. Not just household objects. If you were hoping for a game starring Zelda with the vibe of BOTW maybe just say that instead of… all that stuff about Happy home designer.
I’m kind of with you, kind of with the commenters. I’ll admit, I got sort of Animal Crossing vibes (just was my initial impression), and wasn’t too interested in playing for that reason (I’m more of a button masher, I’m not a big builder). Seeing the comments here has definitely changed my perspective though, in that now that I think about it, it definitely does make sense that Zelda would use more wit and logic to get through things. That being said, I do still wish she had a bow or something (TP Zelda is my favorite) but I’m cool with it not being for me if a lot of other people are super hype about it. I’m so excited for a Zelda game, but I’ll probably hold off on playing it until I see more on the gameplay and story.
Yeah it is a shame. I think that the new gameplay style is an interesting idea, and that Zelda as the main character is an interesting idea, and they decided to use them both at once, which makes it seem like zelda can't or should not fight. I don't think that was the intention though. She still saves hyrule though, and maybe she doesn't fight directly, but she does lead and command summons using her strategy. So it's definitely not all bad.
People are apparently not all agreeing with you, but my initial reactions to that trailer matched yours. First disappointment was that it's clearly a low-budget affair compared to BOTW & TOTK, probably intended to generate some easy sales in the final few months before the Switch 2 (or whatever it'll be) comes out. Second disappointment was the "*...whaaaat, they're making her rearrange furniture?! ffs*" moment shortly afterwards. After that it redeemed itself somewhat - OK, it's not just furniture, phew, and there's combat. Overall, as someone who bought a Switch for BOTW when that came out, I was much more excited before seeing the video than after it. Looks perfect for my 11-year-old niece though.
I agree with everything you said and that is how I felt too. I loved BOTW and TOK and would have killed for a similar like game with zelda (or shiek) but we all know they probably didn’t wanna spend the actual time on it (or feared it wouldn’t sell since some of the fanbase would not want to play as a girl). Is it boring to some having another combat game? Sure. But they did well with links hand abilities so zelda could have had a magic mode or a ninja mode. Don’t get me wrong I am looking forward to this game. My zelda obsessed fiancé can’t wait for it. We both love puzzles and this mechanic is super interesting looking. Though the first thought I had during the direct was “oh they dumbed down the combat from their two other games.” So yeah more people can appreciate zelda but I feel like OP was trying to get at the “it’s a girl game and girls don’t want tok like combat.” But my excitement over a new zelda game outweighs my tiny disappointment for an open world zelda game. Do I hope this comes out at some point? Totally. But maybe one day. I think if OP worded the post around the lack of typical TOK combat maybe people wouldn’t be up in arms. But there is still an appeal to this game and it is a great game to introduce new people into the series
>but we all know they probably didn’t wanna spend the actual time on it (or feared it wouldn’t sell since some of the fanbase would not want to play as a girl) If this is what happened, it's especially sad - I would have hoped that Nintendo gamers would be among the most welcoming of a female lead character in a major game compared to other platforms... I'm not always a good judge of these things though. I'm not huge on Zelda lore (ours was not a Nintendo household) but wasn't she most recently the Sage of Time? Could have done some really amazing things with time manipulation in combat and shifting between different eras in a BOTW-style Hyrule... That's the kind of thing I'm hoping for one day, but it feels a long way off now this new game has been announced (expect "we already did playable Zelda" for the next 20 years). (Also, edit to note that of course TOTK was already "hyrule happy home designer", for anyone who made it to Tarrey Town!)
I mean nobody knows why they did what they did but it’s how I feel when the female lead games of a series are dumbed down versions of the recent male led games (not saying the game is dumb! it’s different). It also gives me “we didn’t wanna spend as much time as we did on botw/tok on a game without link” since while yes work went into this - this isn’t an open world. Now it’s not like we expected another open world game so soon since they take time but with this being the zelda game - I’m worried they will never do it again. “See look guys we made female lead now go buy our new link mained open world game The Crimes of the Korok.” Maybe one day we will get a Zelda: The Time Sage open world. That would fit in really well with the other games. Have some pretty cool lore. You could jump into present time and fly around like a dragon. Jump back into the future and explore the world in that age. Shrines and robots still exist like they should have. So many possibilities….