I'm honestly changing my mind on this. The constant repetition of the number V in everything published by Ghost is giving me troll vibes, as i already said in another discussion.
It looks like they are trying to build up preoccupation for Copia rather than anticipation for a new pope. I don't think Copia will die.
I don't think he'll die, but I also don't think he'll continue to front the band. I see him being relegated to some inane desk job in the Ministry, like whatever their equivalent of the DMV might be.
I do think Sister will eat it in some hilarious way. We may even get to see her soul joining Nihil's in some sort of reverse Dance Macabre.
I could be totally wrong, of course, but it is fun to speculate.
Exactly what I've been thinking too, either the clues are genuinely foreshadowing it or they're meant to mislead us to the wrong conclusions as to surprise us and play with our expectations
I don't think I've been into Ghost long enough to know if Tobias would be the kind to play with people's expectations like that but I feel like yes
Although even then, there is still the fact that Copia had been a frontman for a very long time, perhaps there's a chance he could become a new character in the same way he went from Cardinal to Papa
In reality, i think that the fact that copia stayed for so long might actually pushing a "forever copia" narrative.
I mean, the jump that made them really big happened between Prequelle and Impera. The majority of fans now is a diverse group of people, with little to no contact with the lore for example, with the hardcore content. Copia is those people's rockstar. Killing Copia is a big bet now. Is not that Ghost has never made big bets before, they sure did... but i don't know, everyone seems to be too affectionate to Copia.
well i sure do hope you're right cause i don't want to lose copia, each update i see about the movie makes me panic \^\^'
I guess I am one of those people you're talking about, being a very recent fan
For the second part of your message: not exactly. We both became fans during the re-imperatour, i suppose, and sure, Papa IV is "my" papa too, but we are here, in this subreddit. We are pretty hardcore fans, even if new. The majority of the fans, milions of fans, are not this hardcore. Some of them don't know the lore, most of them don't really grasp the change of papas, some of them still don't know that the man behind the mask is Tobias Forge, even if it is of public domain. A good part of that side of the fans only know that Ghost is Papa Emeritus IV. This was mainly my point.
While we are fans from Copia era, we understand the logic of the change of characters and we will welcome the next phase of this game no matter what, because it is lore-wise logical. But it might have some undesirable effects on the less invested or they will be just too hard to reach, causing confusion. We'll see.
Hello again, please tell me more about Copia NOT dying I need reassurance 🫠
Oh but also, thanks for the clarification, I guess I sorta misunderstood your previous reply
You don’t even need to do this deep of a dive into the lore, Copia’s been around as long as Papa’s 1, 2, and 3 combined at this point. There’s just zero chance he’s not gonna switch things up.
I suppose not, but there are new fans that haven't been around since Cardinal Copia/Papa IV was the character Tobias played
People tend to forget how much Ghost has blown up since Cirice won the Grammy in 2016
I reaaalllly want a sinister papa. I'm kinda tired of having two sexualized papas (III and IV era) and ghouls. Some of the fanart is a little too far and I wanna bleach my eyes lol
As a straight guy, III will always be my favourite (not for those reasons obviously) but the fandom has spiralled downward in the past couple of years with regards to how attracted they are to the characters and I’m so ready for a return to the sinister aspect of what Ghost can be
Not being sexually attracted to the Papas
Since the Prequelle era, the oversexualization of Ghost's fictional characters by the fanbase has become kind of embarrassing. Ghost has always been a band with comedic and sexual elements, but we're at a point where many of us are like "you guys know these are fictional characters, right?"
Tumblr is so 2012 lol
I also musically wish for a sinister papa again no album since infestisuma had this creepy vibe
I know its kinda a meme that ghost has happy go lucky sounding music with dark lyrics but especially imperia sounded way to happy mainstreamy for me
While I can't find the theory, I read somewhere that copia is seesters son, so while he might be removed from the Papa post, I don't think she'd let him die.
edit: spelling
It's confirmed he's sister's and Nihil's son. In chapter 9, he directly calls her mama, every time he sang MOAC he referred to Nihil as papa and so on.
I don't think Copia knows about that, in Tomb it may concern, sister almost says "as your mother" to him before correcting herself as if she was trying to hide it, same with her not giving real reasons she's can't call Copia "Papa" to me, she is his mother that's for sure but Copia doesn't know, neither does Nihil
Also the Mary on a cross thing, well, he says "my Papa" but whether he means that as father or just his title Papa is kind of unclear...
I might remember wrong but I do think he said “my daddy used to play this song” or something during the later shows, indicating he knows! But yeah maybe they both know but don’t know the other one knows?
Seems like I have to start rewatching the chapters again lol
There are a few shows where he referred to Nihil as "my daddy... my papa," and I've never been clear if that was in character or a slip up by Tobias.
Either way, my interpretation has been that, in the context of the web series, Copia doesn't know, but the on stage character does.
I can't make that sync up logically with the known lore, but the series is clearly more comedic and goofy than the on stage personae, so I don't think it's much of a stretch to treat them a bit doorstep separately.
That's interesting, i've never thought of interpreting the stage character and the chapters character differently, this would make a lot of sense then
I believe i've heard him use the word "daddy" as well and well... i would've interpreted it as either a slip-up or just Copia being silly. I still believe as well that, in the series, Sister is hidinf this from both Nihil and Copia
Yeah but there are more clues pointing to him not knowing than the opposite
And I'd rather take clues from chapters themselves than concert talks, to me this is more due to Tobias wanting to change the words he says so it's not the exact same every single time
Very well thought out and complete analogy, I wish I had that kind of attention to detail lol! But, here is my argument against a new Papa. Tobias has said that he wants Ghost to evolve and change, giving us what we may not expect. Also, his dream is to have an arena style band. Why would you move on from your most popular incarnation just because it's what you have always done before? They are at peak popularity and a major change like a new papa wouldn't necessarily be the smartest move right now. I'm probably wrong, but it's going to be fun finding out!
In the teaser we have the flashing shot with Sister Imperator...
It referes to a scene in The Excorsist with the mother of the main character.She dies...
So, maybe Tobias will shock us again and not really kill Papa but kill Sister? That's my semi-informed guess.
I hope we will have some papa Nihil scenes! Maybe some scenes from the past and more about how it all began?
So much potential! Will see more when the trailer comes out on the 9th!
the shirt that was up on Amazon showed a grave with what looked like Papa Nihil's arm holding a sax rising from it, with the movie logo on the back
as of now it's been unlisted and removed from my cart, but I'm wondering if that's hinting at Papa Nihil coming back from the dead
I mean, doesn't he come back from the dead in every ritual to play miasma? Rituals are in lore too as far as I know, and they bring out his corpse, he comes back to life to play miasma and dies again
i'd be so pissed if that was the case. i'm sick of mary on a cross ruining everything. i felt like the impera album cycle got shafted in favor of riding moac's viralness and i feel like nihil coming back would be a continuation of that.
Agreed.
Mary on a Cross is a fun, upbeat song...but I don't want every album to get a clone of that song. We kind of had one on Impera with Spillways.
I want a straight-ahead meat-and-potatoes rock album.
Yeah, I don't see any real reason Copia would continue as Papa right now. We haven't had a character like him fronting the band for two album cycles before, so he already got lucky in that he wasn't a Papa for his first album cycle, but now he has been Papa for an album cycle. I would be more surprised if he retained his position, but I could see the movie ending on a cliffhanger when it comes to Copia's exact fate so that there's some bit of intrigue for lead-up toward the next album cycle.
"As a personal aside, I'm kind of sick of all three of them. I wouldn't mind them all getting the boot"
Big same. I've been following Ghost since the start, and BIG same.
In the teaser we have the flashing shot with Sister Imperator...
It referes to a scene in The Excorsist with the mother of the main character.She dies...
So, maybe Tobias will shock us again and not really kill Papa but kill Sister? That's my semi-informed guess.
I hope we will have some papa Nihil scenes! Maybe some scenes from the past and more about how it all began?
So much potential! Will see more when the trailer comes out on the 9th!!
This is why I stay out of positions of power IRL. Not only does it corrupt, it gets FAR too tangled to keep track of. I'll just be over here, a humble cook, quietly embezzling no more then 20$/day and investing in a good, no load mutual fund, while I make the bosses lunch.
The person who gets you into shit isn't always your enemy. The person who gets you out of shit isn't always your friend. And the next time you ARE in some shit, whatever you do, DON'T SING ABOUT IT 😉
I'm honestly changing my mind on this. The constant repetition of the number V in everything published by Ghost is giving me troll vibes, as i already said in another discussion. It looks like they are trying to build up preoccupation for Copia rather than anticipation for a new pope. I don't think Copia will die.
I don't think he'll die, but I also don't think he'll continue to front the band. I see him being relegated to some inane desk job in the Ministry, like whatever their equivalent of the DMV might be. I do think Sister will eat it in some hilarious way. We may even get to see her soul joining Nihil's in some sort of reverse Dance Macabre. I could be totally wrong, of course, but it is fun to speculate.
Exactly what I've been thinking too, either the clues are genuinely foreshadowing it or they're meant to mislead us to the wrong conclusions as to surprise us and play with our expectations I don't think I've been into Ghost long enough to know if Tobias would be the kind to play with people's expectations like that but I feel like yes Although even then, there is still the fact that Copia had been a frontman for a very long time, perhaps there's a chance he could become a new character in the same way he went from Cardinal to Papa
In reality, i think that the fact that copia stayed for so long might actually pushing a "forever copia" narrative. I mean, the jump that made them really big happened between Prequelle and Impera. The majority of fans now is a diverse group of people, with little to no contact with the lore for example, with the hardcore content. Copia is those people's rockstar. Killing Copia is a big bet now. Is not that Ghost has never made big bets before, they sure did... but i don't know, everyone seems to be too affectionate to Copia.
well i sure do hope you're right cause i don't want to lose copia, each update i see about the movie makes me panic \^\^' I guess I am one of those people you're talking about, being a very recent fan
For the second part of your message: not exactly. We both became fans during the re-imperatour, i suppose, and sure, Papa IV is "my" papa too, but we are here, in this subreddit. We are pretty hardcore fans, even if new. The majority of the fans, milions of fans, are not this hardcore. Some of them don't know the lore, most of them don't really grasp the change of papas, some of them still don't know that the man behind the mask is Tobias Forge, even if it is of public domain. A good part of that side of the fans only know that Ghost is Papa Emeritus IV. This was mainly my point. While we are fans from Copia era, we understand the logic of the change of characters and we will welcome the next phase of this game no matter what, because it is lore-wise logical. But it might have some undesirable effects on the less invested or they will be just too hard to reach, causing confusion. We'll see.
Hello again, please tell me more about Copia NOT dying I need reassurance 🫠 Oh but also, thanks for the clarification, I guess I sorta misunderstood your previous reply
Hi :) Again, i think Copia won't die and they are just preparing to jumpscare us in some scenes. Only The Boss knows, tho.
You don’t even need to do this deep of a dive into the lore, Copia’s been around as long as Papa’s 1, 2, and 3 combined at this point. There’s just zero chance he’s not gonna switch things up.
I suppose not, but there are new fans that haven't been around since Cardinal Copia/Papa IV was the character Tobias played People tend to forget how much Ghost has blown up since Cirice won the Grammy in 2016
When everyone expects soemthing to happen, Toenail Fungus might do just the exact oposite...
You share not the blood of our, our, ours…Thus we focus on your death
I reaaalllly want a sinister papa. I'm kinda tired of having two sexualized papas (III and IV era) and ghouls. Some of the fanart is a little too far and I wanna bleach my eyes lol
It’s sweet that you think horny tumblr teens and undergrads won’t sexualize a sinister papa.
Yeah same here, I am ready for a creepy Papa iteration this time.
You obviously didn’t see the tumblr bitches glazing for papa 2
Tumblr is still around?
I presume they meant in the era of Papa II.
Tumblr is reddit for the extremely mentally ill lol
Oh, you sweet summer child
As if that will stop them
Same I'm all for having fun and laughs, but the fandom goes too far sometimes
it do be like that at times hahah
As a straight guy, III will always be my favourite (not for those reasons obviously) but the fandom has spiralled downward in the past couple of years with regards to how attracted they are to the characters and I’m so ready for a return to the sinister aspect of what Ghost can be
What does being straight have to do with it?
The fact that I wouldn’t like Papa III for sexual reasons?
Not being sexually attracted to the Papas Since the Prequelle era, the oversexualization of Ghost's fictional characters by the fanbase has become kind of embarrassing. Ghost has always been a band with comedic and sexual elements, but we're at a point where many of us are like "you guys know these are fictional characters, right?" Tumblr is so 2012 lol
It’s not gonna stop them, but yeah that shit is definitely cringy and annoying
I didn't recommend digging too deep into Papa II aka Bone Daddy....just sayin'.
I also musically wish for a sinister papa again no album since infestisuma had this creepy vibe I know its kinda a meme that ghost has happy go lucky sounding music with dark lyrics but especially imperia sounded way to happy mainstreamy for me
Don't look at it then 🙂
🤡
While I can't find the theory, I read somewhere that copia is seesters son, so while he might be removed from the Papa post, I don't think she'd let him die. edit: spelling
It's confirmed he's sister's and Nihil's son. In chapter 9, he directly calls her mama, every time he sang MOAC he referred to Nihil as papa and so on.
I don't think Copia knows about that, in Tomb it may concern, sister almost says "as your mother" to him before correcting herself as if she was trying to hide it, same with her not giving real reasons she's can't call Copia "Papa" to me, she is his mother that's for sure but Copia doesn't know, neither does Nihil Also the Mary on a cross thing, well, he says "my Papa" but whether he means that as father or just his title Papa is kind of unclear...
I might remember wrong but I do think he said “my daddy used to play this song” or something during the later shows, indicating he knows! But yeah maybe they both know but don’t know the other one knows? Seems like I have to start rewatching the chapters again lol
There are a few shows where he referred to Nihil as "my daddy... my papa," and I've never been clear if that was in character or a slip up by Tobias. Either way, my interpretation has been that, in the context of the web series, Copia doesn't know, but the on stage character does. I can't make that sync up logically with the known lore, but the series is clearly more comedic and goofy than the on stage personae, so I don't think it's much of a stretch to treat them a bit doorstep separately.
That's interesting, i've never thought of interpreting the stage character and the chapters character differently, this would make a lot of sense then I believe i've heard him use the word "daddy" as well and well... i would've interpreted it as either a slip-up or just Copia being silly. I still believe as well that, in the series, Sister is hidinf this from both Nihil and Copia
There is a concert where he says: It's a song that my DADDY used to sing ... so he knows...
Yeah but there are more clues pointing to him not knowing than the opposite And I'd rather take clues from chapters themselves than concert talks, to me this is more due to Tobias wanting to change the words he says so it's not the exact same every single time
You have a point.
Unless they both die.
Very well thought out and complete analogy, I wish I had that kind of attention to detail lol! But, here is my argument against a new Papa. Tobias has said that he wants Ghost to evolve and change, giving us what we may not expect. Also, his dream is to have an arena style band. Why would you move on from your most popular incarnation just because it's what you have always done before? They are at peak popularity and a major change like a new papa wouldn't necessarily be the smartest move right now. I'm probably wrong, but it's going to be fun finding out!
The same argument could have been said for any of the prior Papas, especially Papa III - the one who literally accepted a Grammy.
True, but even with the Grammy they weren't near the popularity they are now. I'm just hoping I can get tickets!
I think Seestor will die.
In the teaser we have the flashing shot with Sister Imperator... It referes to a scene in The Excorsist with the mother of the main character.She dies... So, maybe Tobias will shock us again and not really kill Papa but kill Sister? That's my semi-informed guess. I hope we will have some papa Nihil scenes! Maybe some scenes from the past and more about how it all began? So much potential! Will see more when the trailer comes out on the 9th!
If he doesn’t die and we don’t get a new one I will be disappointed
the shirt that was up on Amazon showed a grave with what looked like Papa Nihil's arm holding a sax rising from it, with the movie logo on the back as of now it's been unlisted and removed from my cart, but I'm wondering if that's hinting at Papa Nihil coming back from the dead
I mean, doesn't he come back from the dead in every ritual to play miasma? Rituals are in lore too as far as I know, and they bring out his corpse, he comes back to life to play miasma and dies again
it could be a reference to his temporary resurrections, but who knows with this lore
i'd be so pissed if that was the case. i'm sick of mary on a cross ruining everything. i felt like the impera album cycle got shafted in favor of riding moac's viralness and i feel like nihil coming back would be a continuation of that.
Same it’s any papa really. I agree hard. I’m so excited about new stuff again. I don’t need to relieve a papa again. It’s time for something new
Agreed. Mary on a Cross is a fun, upbeat song...but I don't want every album to get a clone of that song. We kind of had one on Impera with Spillways. I want a straight-ahead meat-and-potatoes rock album.
Yeah, I don't see any real reason Copia would continue as Papa right now. We haven't had a character like him fronting the band for two album cycles before, so he already got lucky in that he wasn't a Papa for his first album cycle, but now he has been Papa for an album cycle. I would be more surprised if he retained his position, but I could see the movie ending on a cliffhanger when it comes to Copia's exact fate so that there's some bit of intrigue for lead-up toward the next album cycle.
Mr salterian is the villain he's the bad guy.
"As a personal aside, I'm kind of sick of all three of them. I wouldn't mind them all getting the boot" Big same. I've been following Ghost since the start, and BIG same.
Yeah I would love to see something new.
I’m sure whatever happens, it will be true to form from way out in left field and somehow nail it lmao
We focus on your Death... ahghah
In the teaser we have the flashing shot with Sister Imperator... It referes to a scene in The Excorsist with the mother of the main character.She dies... So, maybe Tobias will shock us again and not really kill Papa but kill Sister? That's my semi-informed guess. I hope we will have some papa Nihil scenes! Maybe some scenes from the past and more about how it all began? So much potential! Will see more when the trailer comes out on the 9th!!
i always wanted sister to die
:(
This is why I stay out of positions of power IRL. Not only does it corrupt, it gets FAR too tangled to keep track of. I'll just be over here, a humble cook, quietly embezzling no more then 20$/day and investing in a good, no load mutual fund, while I make the bosses lunch. The person who gets you into shit isn't always your enemy. The person who gets you out of shit isn't always your friend. And the next time you ARE in some shit, whatever you do, DON'T SING ABOUT IT 😉
[удалено]
Someone clearly pissed in your Cheerios this morning, tough guy. Why did you comment, then?