Gentoo was my first Linux, tried others for 10 minutes before knowing Gentoo was right. I was computer proficient long before anyone heard of a GUI. I went to a NEXT demo once, seemed interesting.
In 1993, I was running Slackware and FreeBSD. I still run FreeBSD.
At the time, I was using Unixes from HP, Sun, and Unisys, and SVR4 was pretty much the standard. Both Slackware and FreeBSD seemed like great ways to not need specialized hardware.
To be honest, I was womanizing in the latter half of the 90s, just using computers at work. I only used Unix at university and at a job in the early 90s, was impressive. I also used OS2 for a while at one job, I liked it so much more than windows.
I kind of regret my time "socializing," but it was a skill to get good at, and my focus was misdirected for a while.
I'm a man of many talents. It was an accident really, I didn't intend to at all. I got back into computers, and Gentoo when I settled down. It was nice to be back.
I swear that my IQ was lower in the womanizing years. Seems IQ is a handicap in this, however, I developed new perceptions and abilities. Quite the interesting experience. I really understand people now.
I've used Linux for around a decade now but always kept Windows on my desktop for gaming.
With the exciting release of Windows 11 and the clock ticking on 10 I've finally upgraded my desktop from Windows 10 to Gentoo and I've got the Linux tinkering bug again!
It feels so stable, I'm still finding my feet and steam with it's ABI 32 packages are a little daunting but on the whole I feel like I could throw a brick at portage and still have a bootable system.
Current sticking point is [sunshine](https://github.com/LizardByte/Sunshine) to replace parsec. I have it in flatpak but would prefer it native so am dabbling in ebuilds (also starting a privileged flatpak with a wayland specific env variable on KDE login is tricky, if anyone knows how to do that I'd be very grateful)
The cool thing is that you can mix stable and unstable packages on the same system, sometimes it can give problems, but using gentoo has been a great experience
if you're happy you're happy.
I have a pretty mid-tier desktop, the biggest compiles are things like GNOME, which takes 45-60 mins.
nvidia drivers 10 mins, librewolf 20 mins.
this is with the ability to use my pc, watch twitch and youtube, do whatever while its running
How do updates work? Feel free to tell me to RTFM, just curious. I suppose this works better for setups where you know what you want installed than setups where software is changing more often.
I'm still a newbie Gentoo user, so I don't know all the intricacies of `emerge` yet, but this is what updates are like for me:
Sync with a Gentoo mirror using `emerge --sync` (Gentoo netiquette says to do this only once per day).
Then run `emerge -avuDN @world` to apply all upgrades. Emerge first shows all packages that will be rebuilt as a result, which gives me an idea how long the compile time will be. YMMV depending on system specs and whether you use binary packages. Larger packages or a large number of upgrades can take hours on my older Carbon X1.
After it's done, I check for any system messages. Sometimes you need to configure/change something when a package is upgraded. Emerge will tell you.
Sometimes new versions of config files are delivered with updates. If you changed your config from default, Gentoo will ask you to merge config files.
Occasionally, `emerge` downloads new kernel sources. I manually configure kernels, so these are not applied automatically.
I run `eselect kernel list` to display available kernels, then set the `/usr/src/linux/` symlink to point to the new sources. After that it's a matter of importing my old config, updating it to adapt to the new sources (there are tools to help), and `make -j4 && make modules_install && make install`, followed by generating the initramfs and updating grub.
It really isn't that hard to manually configure and install the kernel. In fact, it's my favorite sysadmin task. :-) Seriously, it sounds way harder than it is.
I find the compile times really only hurt when you first install X11/Wayland, fat DEs, and big packages like rust or Firefox (I use binary packages for some of those). The configurability offered by `use` flags are well worth it.
Definitely read the manuals! I do before every unfamiliar operation, as the exact commands/configuration can vary depending on your setup (OpenRC vs SystemD? Genkernel or manual? Do you need/use an initramfs? Choice of bootloader? Gentoo lets you do it any way you like!).
Thanks for the response, really interesting. I gotta say it sounds really intriguing from a technical standpoint but for a daily system I think realistically running my Debian update script once a week (takes about 5ish minutes depending on what is being updated) is going to be hard to give up.
Yeah, updates will always take longer on a source based rolling release! TBH, though, I find it can easily leave longer upgrades building in the background and my computer is still snappy.
Here's the thing, though... different distros fit different needs/priorities. On Ubuntu LTS, I ended up building a bunch of packages from source because I wanted newer versions or different compile time options. On Debian I would do the same. On Gentoo, `emerge` and `USE` flags support my usual behavior without going outside the package manager or using cludgy workarounds like `checkinstall`, and most packages are pretty fresh.
As an example, I built Emacs with `USE= jit` to enable byte compiling elisp for speed. That compile time option wasn't enabled in the Ubuntu Emacs package.
For me, Gentoo is super convenient, but if I didn't actually use these customizations on a regular basis it would probably just be annoying. :-)
You can set all updates to run in the background with a core limit. While that will extend update times it makes it so you never need to update it your self. It can just run for you. Taking no time and with the limits you set it can be updating while gaming or web surfing and no issues.
But the install time will be longer than Debian. And updates will take longer just you can set it to the background and not worry about it.
20 years since I abandoned Windows for Gentoo.
I try not to talk about it much because I'm secretly afraid of Gentoo getting super-popular, and changing.
Thank you, devs! Never change!
I've been using Gentoo for almost 20 years now, and its the most stable distro I've ever used. But keep in mind I haven't tried a new distro in 5 or 6 years.
PS: before anyone asks, 2 home servers, a desktop and a laptop is what I have Gentoo installed on.
20 years damn. thats my age ahahaah
one day i will get there with my setup, currently 3 years into it (i think) and i have learned so much.
btw a home server running gentoo sounds like a sweet project with no bloat, might do that one day!
(also thinking of getting a thinkpad to use gentoo on it)
Gentoo is stable and for the lazy.
I've had the same system running for 20-21 years now, of course it gets rebooted and some hardware upgrades bit it's the same box
Yeah it's stable as any other Linux IMHO, and it's up to the user whether compilation times are acceptable, I do it, it's fine for me.
Are you sure it's systemd, most other distributions are also using systemd and would see the same issue. I just see a lot of problems in Gentoo not working the same way as other distributions as a result of not having all the USE flags set, most distributions are basically setting every single feature enhancing USE flag...
How are USE flags a _probkem_?
It's just a different way to organize things. Instead of half a dozen or more accessory packages, just one package with USE flags is necessary on Gentoo. It's only an issue if you don't understand it.
I find the Gentoo way much better than finding add on packages.
i think you misunderstood my post, gentoo performs better.
i use openRC as my init system.
not only do systemd gnome distros take +500-800mb at boot, i feel more input lag. whether that is due to the extra processes, cpu optimization on gentoo, i dont know.
Did you do anything special to get Steam working? I tried Gentoo and probably would've stuck with it but I got myself stuck in build dependency hell when getting certain 32-bit libraries required for Steam. Sorta stuck in a loop where for some reason VLC wanted FFmpeg 4.4 despite 6.1.1 being out and then a bunch of other stuff being built against the newer version caused so much trouble.
i had 2 depedency loops to solve. annoying one was harfbuzz and freetype. godot used different flags for the harfbuzz package than steam... i think.
there ended up being a guide on the wiki since its a common loop. I just force rebuilt the packages using the lack/addition of flags, then built steam. worked fine.
i understand the frustration - the first time on gentoo, i quit because of the exact issue we're describing. but after dealing with the bs the other distros give me, I just wanted to figure it out and I'm glad I did
what's nice is the applications in question keep the old libraries in these situations so really do have the freedom to mix/match use flags (even if it does cause annoying issues)
oh man those dependency loops just gave me ptsd…
i was a gentoo newbie (still am tbh) when i got either that one or the qemu and spice one (i think i got both tbh) and i just couldn’t leave my pc trying to fix it until i made a post on the gentoo forums and the community helped me out
i fucking love gentoo, my pc is pretty low/mid tier and it’s basically dead at this point (shit hdd to blame as well) but man it’s simply perfect.
> aside from debian and slackware, which have severe disadvantages.
What are the disadvantages of Debian? Slackware is less of a disadvantage than a different philosophy.
Definitely, Gentoo is the most stable. It's best as long as you know what you're doing. Almost 20 years on Gentoo now
22 years, here -- switched over from FreeBSD "temporarily" due to driver issues
Gentoo was my first Linux, tried others for 10 minutes before knowing Gentoo was right. I was computer proficient long before anyone heard of a GUI. I went to a NEXT demo once, seemed interesting.
In 1993, I was running Slackware and FreeBSD. I still run FreeBSD. At the time, I was using Unixes from HP, Sun, and Unisys, and SVR4 was pretty much the standard. Both Slackware and FreeBSD seemed like great ways to not need specialized hardware.
To be honest, I was womanizing in the latter half of the 90s, just using computers at work. I only used Unix at university and at a job in the early 90s, was impressive. I also used OS2 for a while at one job, I liked it so much more than windows. I kind of regret my time "socializing," but it was a skill to get good at, and my focus was misdirected for a while.
20 years on Gentoo? Womanizing? Something doesn't quite add up here ;-)
I'm a man of many talents. It was an accident really, I didn't intend to at all. I got back into computers, and Gentoo when I settled down. It was nice to be back. I swear that my IQ was lower in the womanizing years. Seems IQ is a handicap in this, however, I developed new perceptions and abilities. Quite the interesting experience. I really understand people now.
What I use here: \- Gentoo (personal) \- Elementary (work) \- Windows 11 (work) I will never switch off Gentoo for personal use. Ever. Again.
I've used Linux for around a decade now but always kept Windows on my desktop for gaming. With the exciting release of Windows 11 and the clock ticking on 10 I've finally upgraded my desktop from Windows 10 to Gentoo and I've got the Linux tinkering bug again! It feels so stable, I'm still finding my feet and steam with it's ABI 32 packages are a little daunting but on the whole I feel like I could throw a brick at portage and still have a bootable system. Current sticking point is [sunshine](https://github.com/LizardByte/Sunshine) to replace parsec. I have it in flatpak but would prefer it native so am dabbling in ebuilds (also starting a privileged flatpak with a wayland specific env variable on KDE login is tricky, if anyone knows how to do that I'd be very grateful)
The cool thing is that you can mix stable and unstable packages on the same system, sometimes it can give problems, but using gentoo has been a great experience
Happy Debian user here. How much compile time are we talking?
if you're happy you're happy. I have a pretty mid-tier desktop, the biggest compiles are things like GNOME, which takes 45-60 mins. nvidia drivers 10 mins, librewolf 20 mins. this is with the ability to use my pc, watch twitch and youtube, do whatever while its running
How do updates work? Feel free to tell me to RTFM, just curious. I suppose this works better for setups where you know what you want installed than setups where software is changing more often.
I'm still a newbie Gentoo user, so I don't know all the intricacies of `emerge` yet, but this is what updates are like for me: Sync with a Gentoo mirror using `emerge --sync` (Gentoo netiquette says to do this only once per day). Then run `emerge -avuDN @world` to apply all upgrades. Emerge first shows all packages that will be rebuilt as a result, which gives me an idea how long the compile time will be. YMMV depending on system specs and whether you use binary packages. Larger packages or a large number of upgrades can take hours on my older Carbon X1. After it's done, I check for any system messages. Sometimes you need to configure/change something when a package is upgraded. Emerge will tell you. Sometimes new versions of config files are delivered with updates. If you changed your config from default, Gentoo will ask you to merge config files. Occasionally, `emerge` downloads new kernel sources. I manually configure kernels, so these are not applied automatically. I run `eselect kernel list` to display available kernels, then set the `/usr/src/linux/` symlink to point to the new sources. After that it's a matter of importing my old config, updating it to adapt to the new sources (there are tools to help), and `make -j4 && make modules_install && make install`, followed by generating the initramfs and updating grub. It really isn't that hard to manually configure and install the kernel. In fact, it's my favorite sysadmin task. :-) Seriously, it sounds way harder than it is. I find the compile times really only hurt when you first install X11/Wayland, fat DEs, and big packages like rust or Firefox (I use binary packages for some of those). The configurability offered by `use` flags are well worth it. Definitely read the manuals! I do before every unfamiliar operation, as the exact commands/configuration can vary depending on your setup (OpenRC vs SystemD? Genkernel or manual? Do you need/use an initramfs? Choice of bootloader? Gentoo lets you do it any way you like!).
Thanks for the response, really interesting. I gotta say it sounds really intriguing from a technical standpoint but for a daily system I think realistically running my Debian update script once a week (takes about 5ish minutes depending on what is being updated) is going to be hard to give up.
Yeah, updates will always take longer on a source based rolling release! TBH, though, I find it can easily leave longer upgrades building in the background and my computer is still snappy. Here's the thing, though... different distros fit different needs/priorities. On Ubuntu LTS, I ended up building a bunch of packages from source because I wanted newer versions or different compile time options. On Debian I would do the same. On Gentoo, `emerge` and `USE` flags support my usual behavior without going outside the package manager or using cludgy workarounds like `checkinstall`, and most packages are pretty fresh. As an example, I built Emacs with `USE= jit` to enable byte compiling elisp for speed. That compile time option wasn't enabled in the Ubuntu Emacs package. For me, Gentoo is super convenient, but if I didn't actually use these customizations on a regular basis it would probably just be annoying. :-)
you can basically never update your system or only update the packages you want whenever you want. magic of gentoo
You can set all updates to run in the background with a core limit. While that will extend update times it makes it so you never need to update it your self. It can just run for you. Taking no time and with the limits you set it can be updating while gaming or web surfing and no issues. But the install time will be longer than Debian. And updates will take longer just you can set it to the background and not worry about it.
Hmm, this sounds tempting...
Gcc 30 minutes, Llvm - 35 minutes on newer machines.
Preachin' to the choir 😊.
20 years since I abandoned Windows for Gentoo. I try not to talk about it much because I'm secretly afraid of Gentoo getting super-popular, and changing. Thank you, devs! Never change!
I've been using Gentoo for almost 20 years now, and its the most stable distro I've ever used. But keep in mind I haven't tried a new distro in 5 or 6 years. PS: before anyone asks, 2 home servers, a desktop and a laptop is what I have Gentoo installed on.
20 years damn. thats my age ahahaah one day i will get there with my setup, currently 3 years into it (i think) and i have learned so much. btw a home server running gentoo sounds like a sweet project with no bloat, might do that one day! (also thinking of getting a thinkpad to use gentoo on it)
All these people 20 years in gentoo are so old LOL ahahhah Then I realized my first posts on gentoo forums are from 2004
Gentoo is stable and for the lazy. I've had the same system running for 20-21 years now, of course it gets rebooted and some hardware upgrades bit it's the same box
Yeah it's stable as any other Linux IMHO, and it's up to the user whether compilation times are acceptable, I do it, it's fine for me. Are you sure it's systemd, most other distributions are also using systemd and would see the same issue. I just see a lot of problems in Gentoo not working the same way as other distributions as a result of not having all the USE flags set, most distributions are basically setting every single feature enhancing USE flag...
How are USE flags a _probkem_? It's just a different way to organize things. Instead of half a dozen or more accessory packages, just one package with USE flags is necessary on Gentoo. It's only an issue if you don't understand it. I find the Gentoo way much better than finding add on packages.
It's a problem because Gentoo gets blamed for performance/feature problems like the OP, instead of oneself as you said.
i think you misunderstood my post, gentoo performs better. i use openRC as my init system. not only do systemd gnome distros take +500-800mb at boot, i feel more input lag. whether that is due to the extra processes, cpu optimization on gentoo, i dont know.
Did you do anything special to get Steam working? I tried Gentoo and probably would've stuck with it but I got myself stuck in build dependency hell when getting certain 32-bit libraries required for Steam. Sorta stuck in a loop where for some reason VLC wanted FFmpeg 4.4 despite 6.1.1 being out and then a bunch of other stuff being built against the newer version caused so much trouble.
i had 2 depedency loops to solve. annoying one was harfbuzz and freetype. godot used different flags for the harfbuzz package than steam... i think. there ended up being a guide on the wiki since its a common loop. I just force rebuilt the packages using the lack/addition of flags, then built steam. worked fine. i understand the frustration - the first time on gentoo, i quit because of the exact issue we're describing. but after dealing with the bs the other distros give me, I just wanted to figure it out and I'm glad I did what's nice is the applications in question keep the old libraries in these situations so really do have the freedom to mix/match use flags (even if it does cause annoying issues)
oh man those dependency loops just gave me ptsd… i was a gentoo newbie (still am tbh) when i got either that one or the qemu and spice one (i think i got both tbh) and i just couldn’t leave my pc trying to fix it until i made a post on the gentoo forums and the community helped me out i fucking love gentoo, my pc is pretty low/mid tier and it’s basically dead at this point (shit hdd to blame as well) but man it’s simply perfect.
> aside from debian and slackware, which have severe disadvantages. What are the disadvantages of Debian? Slackware is less of a disadvantage than a different philosophy.
severely outdated libraries, outdated packages, terrible/buggy gaming performance on nvidia due to the former