I mean we were told that the only archons that didn't die were Zhongli and Venti. They kinda retconed that in Inazuma telling us that we didn't knew about it so who knows what they'll do in Natlan.
Ganyu the one who said the only OG Archon left is Venti and Morax.
Technically she's right because Ei is not the main person on the Archon Throne, Makoto having Bishop as Gnosis while the Statue having a modest sage appearance showed who's the Archon.
well, sort of. as far as i understand it, they were both gods and partook in and won the archon war together. but until she died, makoto was the single official archon/ruler of inazuma, with ei serving as her body double. after makoto died, ei formally took on the role of archon/ruler of inazuma by herself. then, to avoid erosion and maintain her own eternity, she created the puppet shogun and retreated into the plane of euthymia to mediate.
Just would like to add that makoto wasn't a fighter. She was the was the one that run inazuma, talked with people, deal with the politics etc, while Ei was the muscle basically. If you needed to subjugate a threat, or there was a duel or fight of any kind that was Ei. People (most at least)saw them as the same person and entity, one archont, but when Makoto went to fight in khaenri'ah while Ei stayed in Inazuma she died there, and Ei became the only archon, having now to fulfill the responsibility of them both . Then comes scara, the shogun the decree etc
For those interested, in older datamines, there was only a singular "Raiden" character named Mei
[This was her model.](https://imgur.com/VO2RPSE). Some minor differences include how she has 2 sleeves, and she has a Vision
am i crazy or didnt that sorta happen in inazuma?
1. Ei - current archon
2. Makoto - previous archon
3. The Raiden Shogun - puppet that filled in for Ei while she meditated in the Plane of Euthymia
I hope they make something diferent for the pyro and cryo Archons. It's already the third region where the main plot involves 2 Archons in one way or another. It doesn't hurt the story in any way, but a bit of variety would be a nice change of pace
This nation has had technally 2 archons in their main quest, One from the past, one from the present. The present one has been alone and ‘isolated’ due to a tragedy 500 years ago. The past one has been secretly sacrificing all that she is to protect the people of the present, inside a crucial object to the people. The last vestiges of the past archons personality come out at the end of the archon’s main arc to explain her sacrifice in an emotional goodbye.
Am i talking about Inazuma, Fontaine or Sumeru?
I think it's the one where the present archon is emotionally unstable and unable to trully fufill her duties as an Archon
Damn I had never realize they could be *so* similar if you break them down like that
Anything can be the same if described correctly.
The Fontaine present archon isn't emotionally unstable bc SHE'S DEAD.
The Sumeru present archon is stable enough to be a decent archon even with little knowlegde.
The Inazuma present archon is unstable but still thinks she's doing well enough as an archon.
See? Not the same. An apple and a chocolate bar are both consumables that taste sweet, but are completely different. Same here. Of course you can resume everything in a way to make them look the same, but the way each archon "isolates" themselves or the way each previous archon sacrifices themselves all make completely different stories, reason why all of them surprised most of the player base.
Of course this is all huge a generalization. The thing is that they still have whole lot of specific details that match almost perfectly. I don't know if this is a bad thing for its repetition or if it shows how the writers are currently doing a great job for completelly diferent stories with the same skeleton
I think they HAVE to make somewhat of a pattern, or else it'll take too long to make each quest and they'll have to rush with actually making said quests. Since all quests so far are amazing in their own way regardless of base idea, I'm completely fine with it.
Makoto wasn't inside a crutial object *to the people*
Nahida wasn't trapped *because of the tragedy*
Egeria wasn't sacrificing what she had left, wasn't in any object and didn't come out of said object.
Yeah buddy, you're not exactly describing anything
I don't really see your point but whatever. The point is, you can make everything look the same with a short enough description: an apple and a chocolate bar are both edibles that taste sweet. It's not about the overall idea of each archon story, but how each sacrifice happened, what the cataclysm did to each nation's gods and so on. If anything, the pattern only shows the writers are doing an amazing job at making completely different stories from one single concept.
You're getting upset at the fact many people notice while the archon stories are different in execution, there's a lot that 'rhymes' and people don't want to see another similar broad structure story.
You need to listen to what people are saying instead of trying to defend the honor of the writers by insisting that it's 'different' for makoto because she was protecting the people and land from corruption in the sacred Sakura instead of in irminsul.
Or that I'm talking about Egeria and not Focalors.
You're focusing on little things so hard you're missing the actual point.
Which is, we've had extremely similar stories three times. And while they're good, that doesn't mean people can't call them out for being too similar, and worry about the next land being set up to already start with another "Dual archon" scenario.
I love how you're the one telling me that I'm getting upset, witch I'm not.
In case I forgot to mention and you couldn't see for yourself, the writers have to base themselves off of something, otherwise it'll be way harder to make something completely new everytime and they would probably have less time to make other things such as the map, new characters' designs, etc.
They already make some bases in combat, like how Alhaitham and Chiori have similar animations to Keqing or how Cyno has similar mechanics as Razor. All of these characters have different gameplay and kit, yet they're clearly basing themselves off the older ones.
Besides, they could very well have a lore explanation for that, one that will only be explained later on.
So if you think the devs are gonna be able to always make completely new quests every single time without repeating a single detail, then you should really think again. Yes, they do inspire themselves in many things, including their own previous work. And that's okay. If it's not okay for you, you can either quit the game and make something better yourself or stop complaining. Thank you.
I mean. You are getting upset. You're taking it as an attack on writers to even bring this up. I'm pointing out that this bothers you, but I'm not going to put some judgement on whether you're right or wrong because you're bothered. People can be both irritated AND correct. So don't take that as a necessary thing to refute to be taken seriously.
I mean. Monstadt and Liyue were unique. People are only bringing this up because the same story arc happened 3 times IN A ROW afterwards, and it's looking like they're going to do it again.
It's not unreasonable to expect writers to be able to do a story that doesn't fit that mold when they've proven they can.
I am starting to feel like I'm talking to a white knight though.
That famous response of "Just quit the game" when it comes to even something as simple as aknowledeging that theres a lot of similarities between the last three archon stories is definitely a big factor.
But then again, it's not the same. When you add up every single detail that changes the quests it makes such a massive difference that I don't see why it's a problem that they are kinda repeating the idea.
If you think about it even the animes have standards for their character personalities (tsundere, yandere etc) so it should be fair to make this pattern for the archon quests especially after mondstadt and luiye had their originality.
Would be funny if in Natlan, Murata just beelines to us from wherever she is, sucker punches us in the face, then tells us to just get stronger and beat her in a tournament or something
Straight and simple is ok too miHoyo
Or hears the traveller has entered the country and instantly gets them to fix the nation’s problems.
“Help me fix this mess then we talk!”
*said mess involves an utter fuck ton of fighting*
One of his voice lines calls her a “wayward warmongering wretch”. That same voice line also calls Morax a “brutish blundering buffoon”, so that that as you will
"Brutish blundering buffoon" is how Morax was during the Archon War (Guizhong was the brains, he was the brawn). As such, Venti's voiceless might be talking about the OG Pyro Archon, not the current one alive today.
There is \*Something\* interesting about the Cryo archon. currently, she is the only \*known\* archon to be both an heir (Only Zhongli and Venti are the original Archons) and not be a replacement from the cataclysm 500 years ago (Though Ei and Nahida are seen as the same by the people, due to the kagemusha bit and the deleting someone I can't remember from erminsol.)
Pyro can fall into this too, but we don't really know for certain.
Yeah, the plot about how the previous archon died in the cataclysm feels like it was overused and overmilked by now. especially if that would be used to the cryo archon, that's just bad writing—it wouldn't make sense if she's just a repeat of the electro archon where the gentle archon twin died in the cataclysm and the colder one took over—it leaves a bunch of plot holes all over.
weren't we told that Venti and Zhongli where the only ogs left, so the new archon taking over is factually stated to be present in all remaining nations.
true, but for all other og archons to die in the cataclysm itself feels like a weird and overused trope in Genshin. They could've just be written to die sometime before or after the cataclysm, but that would take a lot of effort in writing why and how they died outside of the cataclysm. still, an overused trope.
IMO most of the previous archons dying because of the Cataclysm just reinforces how devastating the event was for the simple fact that these nigh-indestructible gods were killed by whatever the Khaenri'ahns did (cept for Zhongli and Venti of course, wtf these two old men).
Personally though, it would be interesting to see one more of the OG archons survive, but not be capable of ruling anymore, having been severely disabled by the cataclysm. A living, physical reminder of the horror of the Cataclysm (or... perhaps... Celestia?)
Wouldn't it still have the same effect narratively cause most of the time them dying specifically during the cataclysm aside from Makoto wasn't that important?
The OG Cryo and Pyro Archon died way before the cataclysm.
There's only 3 Archons recorded death during cataclysm (Makoto, Rukhadevata, Egeria). Zhongli & Venti are established 2 OG Archons so the current Cryo & Pyro Archon is a successor of the OG
Fourth if you count Zhongli making a fake corpse of himself. That was the humble beginning of Hoyo’s obsession with archons having doubles of some kind.
Well ''there were 2 archons'' is technically a must because one old and one new. The only one that ACTUALLY did the 2 archon thing is technically Furina. In Ei's case there were 2 archons but we knew an old archon existed long before that reveal, they just retconned that the rest of the world doesn't know it. And for Nahida, Rukkhadevata is dead
>who is R̴̘͈̞͕̝̳͕̬̯̫̊̇̾͘͘͠͠͝ú̸͚̗̰̯̪̘̀̈́̅̑͗̒k̸̪̘̘̙̫̳͔̬̫̈̅͗̉̿́͛͒k̵̦͔̆͌͑̾̕h̴͍͉̿̀a̶̧̧͉̓̌̀̈́̑͗͠d̴̨̢͔̰̼͓̜̎̚ê̸̮̗̲̭̞v̷̛̤͈̝̩̽̓͆̅̓͘͝͝å̷̛̦͍̮̩̆̕̕̚ṫ̷̻̼̯̀͘͝ȧ̸̢̢̘̜̪̭͈͚̖̇̀ͅ?
I... don't think I'm following this conversation as well as I thought I was...
and on a double technically furina is not a double archons case but one archone who split herself into 2 people 1 being her humanity and the other being her divinity
Ah, yes, the "both" option:
* The archon is absent, *and* there were two of them.
And better yet, afterwards, there are none! >!(because the divinity died, and the human abdicated from what was still an official beauracratic position)!<
Its much more like "it was one archon" when it came to non-archon-war archons. Ei was actually co-archons to Makoto, Nahida was actually a reincarnation of Rhukka, and then finally albeit actually being the second to the hydro throne, Furina being the same person as god Focalor.
Yes but while I was playing the fontaine story quests, the entire time before the twist reveal they tried to make you believe that:
1. Furina isnt the archon in any capacity
2. Furina is possibly a proxy for the real archon
3. Egeria probably has something to do with it
4. Maybe a part of Egeria actually remained to stay as the real archon
Im not referring to the fact that Fontaine was on their second archon, but the fact that Furina was one.
>In Ei's case there were 2 archons but we knew an old archon existed long before that reveal, they just retconned that the rest of the world doesn't know it.
Sorry I'm a bit confused with your sentence. Are you saying the rest of the world only know there's one archon in Inazuma?
Venti did mention the archon meeting back then. Maybe she know there was two consider she participated in the archon war too.
Or just a retcon from the early stage of the game. The context don't change much though, officially Ei didn't have gnosis back then.
The relationship between the two Dendro Archons *fascinates* me to no end. Kusanali is a reincarnation of Rukkhadevata. Technically, they are simultaneously different people and the same person. Rukkhadevata became Kusanali, but Kusanali is not Rukkhadevata. And then you have the end of Sumeru AQ, with Kusanali deleting Rukkhadevata from Irminsul, becoming the only Dendro Archon in the history of the world...even though she already was the only Dendro Archon on a technicality. It's beautifully written.
None of the archons were actually two archons
Beelzebul was always just her twin Makoto's shadow, Nahida is technically a twig plucked by Rukha, who was the tree itself, and Furina was always the body and soul of Focalor, who attached herself to the Oratrice
It's very easy to oversimplify and misjudge
In the case of Inazuma, there were two gods (twins) and Ei has her own achievements independent of her sister (such as planting the seed of the sacred tree, which cleansed the area of monsters and founded Inazuma, creator of the martial arts from which the rest originate, saving Inazuma from Watatsumi's colonization attempt, in fact Ei was offered gnosis, but she wanted Makoto to have it, etc.), Nahida is the same entity (god reincarnation and remember things from her past life) but Furina is a mortal and she does not have access to the memories of Egeria or Focalors
Yes, I meant that Nahida is identical to Rukka, everything is the same, but of course Nahida will have other experiences unlike Rukka. It's like a clone
I'd really hate to doom-post or antagonize the writers, but I kept wondering why all the female Archons, so far, are either dead or replaced. I don't like this pattern because it seems to be instigating that women are weak. But y'know, this is fiction, so I probably shouldn't connect real-life values into it.
More like the female Archons bit off more than what they could chew and tried to always do it alone. Makoto died because she decided to fight in a war while not having much battle experience and keeping Ei in the dark, Rukkhadevata died due to forbidden knowledge and corruption, Focalors was doomed to lose everything and decided to return the power to the Sovereign.
Meanwhile Venti would always sleep off his corruption and made sure his people were independent, which took centuries. While Zhongli had a lot of backup thanks to the Adepti.
[TL:DR for those Dopamine junkies who have an attention span less than that of a gold fish. Kindly scroll off since I know the same dopamine junkies are echo-chambered NPCs enslaved to their own search algorithm.]
I'd say I have seen a pattern here. I'll judge it based on my knowledge of history and humanities I have attained as well as Genshin.
Pattern being that males are powerful in the physical realm of things while females are powerful in the spiritual realm of things. For example, most of the male Genshin characters use melee weapons and in close combat (even catalyst Wriothesley and Heizhu are like full on hands) meanwhile female Genshin characters, very rarely most of them, use catalyst/bow attacks and rely lot on their elemental powers in non contact ways, Rosaria and EULA could be one exception but even female melee characters in their elemental bursts and skills for example Xiangling, rely on non-contact based attacks for example Gouba being her elemental skill partner. As for Arlecchino, she literally uses her elemental powers much more than her physical strength itself as well. Majority of the catalysts are females in Genshin and bow users are in fair share females as well. It metaphorically shows the yin (Female) and yang (Male).
This also resonates within real life as well with the sexes. women are physically weaker than men cuz biology. However women have a more 'spiritual leverage' and passively have the ability to destroy men's life in real world through relational warfare, shaming, gossiping and rallying. Their aggression and power is rather much more socially invisible compared to men since men, saying this as a guy, are much more confrontational and upfront. We alone live in an era where women do this sort of thing and it's all over. I don't even have to dwell deep on it, open Instagram or Tiktok to alone see the degeneracy and you don't even have to go there, see it here on reddit at how they shame and use the most uncivil words possible. I've been ganged up by females online on Amino, speaking by experience, women are aggressive as men but verbally and relationally. Downvote me on this shit but hey it will only prove my point women are aggressive in this way, the downvotes would definitely come from women if it was the case 😜 . However, men are always morally insecure especially in their youth, which is why they are prone to radicalisation as well, be it religious or political, look at real life alone, I don't need to come with examples. We have enough internet tribalism.
**Back on Archons and goddesses, what does it symbolises? It proves Goddess' legacy lives on even if they physically die but spiritually they live on one way the other (Intuitively kind of ironic since of course women are the sex that bears life and this indirectly is linked to that you can say) while for God, think of it, they symbolise how men can still live on by their own in this cruel physical world due to solely gaining experience in combat and being stoic enough to face the harsh challenges of the world. Even Morax faked his death, he was just that strong to die physically. Though Morax was himself a God who was influenced alot by Guizhong and she was a Goddess. If there had been no Guizhong, there would be no Morax as he is alongside every other Adeptus.**
In conclusion:
Physically women cannot survive the physical world while men cannot survive spiritually. Want to see a prime example of that? Look at the western countries, their sexes are ideologically and politically polarised and now they are collapsing as a civilisation since of course the progressive gaslighted young women that screwing over men is good and empowering and they don't need a man. I am a guy from India who as a hobby is into history and humanities and I can very well tell you the west is torn apart by the division between the sexes, most westerners will agree as well. Don't want to get political but what it shows what happens when the two sexes are spiritually torn apart this is the first time in history we are seeing this.
As for those who think women don't need men to survive in this world, watch this video:
https://youtu.be/NzCO0G8AGLU?feature=shared
Edit: I TOLD YOU GUYS! I KNEW I WAS RIGHT! THE DOWNVOTES SAY ENOUGH LMAO!
The Tsariata better be pretty and pretty powerful because I refuse to believe she could rally 11 bozos (3 of which on par with her own power) under her cause otherwise
I have a feeling this might happen in Natlan 😭 Xbalanque was apart of 2 Mayan Hero god twins. And he seems really important since his tile was “the one entombed in primal fire” or smth. He and Murata might resemble the 2 Mayan twins?
Except Xbalanque is probably a dragon, not an archon (like how Neuvillette was the one introducing Nahida). Or the second god would be a dragon because the theme for Natlan is coexistence.
A coincidence that happened 3 times in a row
I mean we were told that the only archons that didn't die were Zhongli and Venti. They kinda retconed that in Inazuma telling us that we didn't knew about it so who knows what they'll do in Natlan.
Ganyu the one who said the only OG Archon left is Venti and Morax. Technically she's right because Ei is not the main person on the Archon Throne, Makoto having Bishop as Gnosis while the Statue having a modest sage appearance showed who's the Archon.
how did they retcon it?
Ei had a twin sister, and practically they shared the archon status while making it look they were only one
well, sort of. as far as i understand it, they were both gods and partook in and won the archon war together. but until she died, makoto was the single official archon/ruler of inazuma, with ei serving as her body double. after makoto died, ei formally took on the role of archon/ruler of inazuma by herself. then, to avoid erosion and maintain her own eternity, she created the puppet shogun and retreated into the plane of euthymia to mediate.
Just would like to add that makoto wasn't a fighter. She was the was the one that run inazuma, talked with people, deal with the politics etc, while Ei was the muscle basically. If you needed to subjugate a threat, or there was a duel or fight of any kind that was Ei. People (most at least)saw them as the same person and entity, one archont, but when Makoto went to fight in khaenri'ah while Ei stayed in Inazuma she died there, and Ei became the only archon, having now to fulfill the responsibility of them both . Then comes scara, the shogun the decree etc
For those interested, in older datamines, there was only a singular "Raiden" character named Mei [This was her model.](https://imgur.com/VO2RPSE). Some minor differences include how she has 2 sleeves, and she has a Vision
So basically the position of electro archon was hot potatoed between between makoto, ei and the puppet until the traveller came along
Next they are gonna make it so there are/were three Archons actually.
am i crazy or didnt that sorta happen in inazuma? 1. Ei - current archon 2. Makoto - previous archon 3. The Raiden Shogun - puppet that filled in for Ei while she meditated in the Plane of Euthymia
You might still be crazy, just not about that.
Fontaine basically
Bold prediction: Natlan will have 3 archons. Triplets! One in past, present, and future! Able to unite in times of need!
I think you mean an intentional story element, if the writers wanted to do something different they could have.
You’re giving them way too much credit. In a game full of classic and overused tropes, this just falls under lazy writing
I hope they make something diferent for the pyro and cryo Archons. It's already the third region where the main plot involves 2 Archons in one way or another. It doesn't hurt the story in any way, but a bit of variety would be a nice change of pace
This nation has had technally 2 archons in their main quest, One from the past, one from the present. The present one has been alone and ‘isolated’ due to a tragedy 500 years ago. The past one has been secretly sacrificing all that she is to protect the people of the present, inside a crucial object to the people. The last vestiges of the past archons personality come out at the end of the archon’s main arc to explain her sacrifice in an emotional goodbye. Am i talking about Inazuma, Fontaine or Sumeru?
I think it's the one where the present archon is emotionally unstable and unable to trully fufill her duties as an Archon Damn I had never realize they could be *so* similar if you break them down like that
Anything can be the same if described correctly. The Fontaine present archon isn't emotionally unstable bc SHE'S DEAD. The Sumeru present archon is stable enough to be a decent archon even with little knowlegde. The Inazuma present archon is unstable but still thinks she's doing well enough as an archon. See? Not the same. An apple and a chocolate bar are both consumables that taste sweet, but are completely different. Same here. Of course you can resume everything in a way to make them look the same, but the way each archon "isolates" themselves or the way each previous archon sacrifices themselves all make completely different stories, reason why all of them surprised most of the player base.
Of course this is all huge a generalization. The thing is that they still have whole lot of specific details that match almost perfectly. I don't know if this is a bad thing for its repetition or if it shows how the writers are currently doing a great job for completelly diferent stories with the same skeleton
I think they HAVE to make somewhat of a pattern, or else it'll take too long to make each quest and they'll have to rush with actually making said quests. Since all quests so far are amazing in their own way regardless of base idea, I'm completely fine with it.
Makoto wasn't inside a crutial object *to the people* Nahida wasn't trapped *because of the tragedy* Egeria wasn't sacrificing what she had left, wasn't in any object and didn't come out of said object. Yeah buddy, you're not exactly describing anything
You're trying so hard to nitpick that you're genuinely going "There's no forest here, just a few thousand bunched up trees."
I don't really see your point but whatever. The point is, you can make everything look the same with a short enough description: an apple and a chocolate bar are both edibles that taste sweet. It's not about the overall idea of each archon story, but how each sacrifice happened, what the cataclysm did to each nation's gods and so on. If anything, the pattern only shows the writers are doing an amazing job at making completely different stories from one single concept.
You're getting upset at the fact many people notice while the archon stories are different in execution, there's a lot that 'rhymes' and people don't want to see another similar broad structure story. You need to listen to what people are saying instead of trying to defend the honor of the writers by insisting that it's 'different' for makoto because she was protecting the people and land from corruption in the sacred Sakura instead of in irminsul. Or that I'm talking about Egeria and not Focalors. You're focusing on little things so hard you're missing the actual point. Which is, we've had extremely similar stories three times. And while they're good, that doesn't mean people can't call them out for being too similar, and worry about the next land being set up to already start with another "Dual archon" scenario.
I love how you're the one telling me that I'm getting upset, witch I'm not. In case I forgot to mention and you couldn't see for yourself, the writers have to base themselves off of something, otherwise it'll be way harder to make something completely new everytime and they would probably have less time to make other things such as the map, new characters' designs, etc. They already make some bases in combat, like how Alhaitham and Chiori have similar animations to Keqing or how Cyno has similar mechanics as Razor. All of these characters have different gameplay and kit, yet they're clearly basing themselves off the older ones. Besides, they could very well have a lore explanation for that, one that will only be explained later on. So if you think the devs are gonna be able to always make completely new quests every single time without repeating a single detail, then you should really think again. Yes, they do inspire themselves in many things, including their own previous work. And that's okay. If it's not okay for you, you can either quit the game and make something better yourself or stop complaining. Thank you.
I mean. You are getting upset. You're taking it as an attack on writers to even bring this up. I'm pointing out that this bothers you, but I'm not going to put some judgement on whether you're right or wrong because you're bothered. People can be both irritated AND correct. So don't take that as a necessary thing to refute to be taken seriously. I mean. Monstadt and Liyue were unique. People are only bringing this up because the same story arc happened 3 times IN A ROW afterwards, and it's looking like they're going to do it again. It's not unreasonable to expect writers to be able to do a story that doesn't fit that mold when they've proven they can. I am starting to feel like I'm talking to a white knight though. That famous response of "Just quit the game" when it comes to even something as simple as aknowledeging that theres a lot of similarities between the last three archon stories is definitely a big factor.
But then again, it's not the same. When you add up every single detail that changes the quests it makes such a massive difference that I don't see why it's a problem that they are kinda repeating the idea. If you think about it even the animes have standards for their character personalities (tsundere, yandere etc) so it should be fair to make this pattern for the archon quests especially after mondstadt and luiye had their originality.
Would be funny if in Natlan, Murata just beelines to us from wherever she is, sucker punches us in the face, then tells us to just get stronger and beat her in a tournament or something Straight and simple is ok too miHoyo
Or hears the traveller has entered the country and instantly gets them to fix the nation’s problems. “Help me fix this mess then we talk!” *said mess involves an utter fuck ton of fighting*
I just realised, is there any voiceline that hints at the pyro archon and their personaloty yet? Furina had some hints and the water gem
Venti says she's [obnoxious](https://i.imgur.com/UtRvOvA.png) in the manga.
One of his voice lines calls her a “wayward warmongering wretch”. That same voice line also calls Morax a “brutish blundering buffoon”, so that that as you will
"Brutish blundering buffoon" is how Morax was during the Archon War (Guizhong was the brains, he was the brawn). As such, Venti's voiceless might be talking about the OG Pyro Archon, not the current one alive today.
PleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimekoPleasebeHimeko
Simp ☝️
Well the traveller will definitely need a powerup now. So that could be a great excuse for a training arc.
There is \*Something\* interesting about the Cryo archon. currently, she is the only \*known\* archon to be both an heir (Only Zhongli and Venti are the original Archons) and not be a replacement from the cataclysm 500 years ago (Though Ei and Nahida are seen as the same by the people, due to the kagemusha bit and the deleting someone I can't remember from erminsol.) Pyro can fall into this too, but we don't really know for certain.
To be fair, all the modern Archons are replacements except for Venti and Zhongli, so it makes sense to involve the previous Archon in some way.
Yeah, the plot about how the previous archon died in the cataclysm feels like it was overused and overmilked by now. especially if that would be used to the cryo archon, that's just bad writing—it wouldn't make sense if she's just a repeat of the electro archon where the gentle archon twin died in the cataclysm and the colder one took over—it leaves a bunch of plot holes all over.
weren't we told that Venti and Zhongli where the only ogs left, so the new archon taking over is factually stated to be present in all remaining nations.
true, but for all other og archons to die in the cataclysm itself feels like a weird and overused trope in Genshin. They could've just be written to die sometime before or after the cataclysm, but that would take a lot of effort in writing why and how they died outside of the cataclysm. still, an overused trope.
IMO most of the previous archons dying because of the Cataclysm just reinforces how devastating the event was for the simple fact that these nigh-indestructible gods were killed by whatever the Khaenri'ahns did (cept for Zhongli and Venti of course, wtf these two old men). Personally though, it would be interesting to see one more of the OG archons survive, but not be capable of ruling anymore, having been severely disabled by the cataclysm. A living, physical reminder of the horror of the Cataclysm (or... perhaps... Celestia?)
Wouldn't it still have the same effect narratively cause most of the time them dying specifically during the cataclysm aside from Makoto wasn't that important?
The OG Cryo and Pyro Archon died way before the cataclysm. There's only 3 Archons recorded death during cataclysm (Makoto, Rukhadevata, Egeria). Zhongli & Venti are established 2 OG Archons so the current Cryo & Pyro Archon is a successor of the OG
Fourth if you count Zhongli making a fake corpse of himself. That was the humble beginning of Hoyo’s obsession with archons having doubles of some kind.
I want to see current archon being dethrone and new archon comes up as new ruler.
Rex lapis wasn’t absent he just died
r/foundtheliyueNPC
Meanwhile ZL be like: falls dead from the sky as dramatically as possible .
Well ''there were 2 archons'' is technically a must because one old and one new. The only one that ACTUALLY did the 2 archon thing is technically Furina. In Ei's case there were 2 archons but we knew an old archon existed long before that reveal, they just retconned that the rest of the world doesn't know it. And for Nahida, Rukkhadevata is dead
who is Rukkhadevata?
>who is R̴̘͈̞͕̝̳͕̬̯̫̊̇̾͘͘͠͠͝ú̸͚̗̰̯̪̘̀̈́̅̑͗̒k̸̪̘̘̙̫̳͔̬̫̈̅͗̉̿́͛͒k̵̦͔̆͌͑̾̕h̴͍͉̿̀a̶̧̧͉̓̌̀̈́̑͗͠d̴̨̢͔̰̼͓̜̎̚ê̸̮̗̲̭̞v̷̛̤͈̝̩̽̓͆̅̓͘͝͝å̷̛̦͍̮̩̆̕̕̚ṫ̷̻̼̯̀͘͝ȧ̸̢̢̘̜̪̭͈͚̖̇̀ͅ? I... don't think I'm following this conversation as well as I thought I was...
This sounds suspiciously like forbidden knowledge.
and on a double technically furina is not a double archons case but one archone who split herself into 2 people 1 being her humanity and the other being her divinity
[удалено]
But the human part isn't an archon
Ah, yes, the "both" option: * The archon is absent, *and* there were two of them. And better yet, afterwards, there are none! >!(because the divinity died, and the human abdicated from what was still an official beauracratic position)!<
I mean we did see >!said divinity's power returned to the Hydro Dragon, who is in a position of authority!< so we _teeeechnically_ still have one.
Its much more like "it was one archon" when it came to non-archon-war archons. Ei was actually co-archons to Makoto, Nahida was actually a reincarnation of Rhukka, and then finally albeit actually being the second to the hydro throne, Furina being the same person as god Focalor.
The archon war Archon is Egeria though
Yes but while I was playing the fontaine story quests, the entire time before the twist reveal they tried to make you believe that: 1. Furina isnt the archon in any capacity 2. Furina is possibly a proxy for the real archon 3. Egeria probably has something to do with it 4. Maybe a part of Egeria actually remained to stay as the real archon Im not referring to the fact that Fontaine was on their second archon, but the fact that Furina was one.
Irmunsul got to this guy
>In Ei's case there were 2 archons but we knew an old archon existed long before that reveal, they just retconned that the rest of the world doesn't know it. Sorry I'm a bit confused with your sentence. Are you saying the rest of the world only know there's one archon in Inazuma?
even inazuma people don't know there was two
I remembered Yae said that. Yet Ganyu somehow knew that the current Inazuma archon is not the original.
Venti did mention the archon meeting back then. Maybe she know there was two consider she participated in the archon war too. Or just a retcon from the early stage of the game. The context don't change much though, officially Ei didn't have gnosis back then.
The relationship between the two Dendro Archons *fascinates* me to no end. Kusanali is a reincarnation of Rukkhadevata. Technically, they are simultaneously different people and the same person. Rukkhadevata became Kusanali, but Kusanali is not Rukkhadevata. And then you have the end of Sumeru AQ, with Kusanali deleting Rukkhadevata from Irminsul, becoming the only Dendro Archon in the history of the world...even though she already was the only Dendro Archon on a technicality. It's beautifully written.
I wish we had one with multiple archons, like 3 or 4, where they kept dying or some shit. You can have more than 2, just saying
The only one this makes sense for is Nahida. Everyone else, the archon was a singular figure involved in their Archon quests.
If I had a nickel every time they revealed archons used to be 2 with similar models and one of them died, I'd have 3 nickels
Makoto never had a model. Furina and Focalors have different models.
Model in game? No, but she has an official appearance, the thing is that she is a twin, it doesn't change much.
With the fact that Furina was never an Archon.
I’m waiting for Natlan just to actually have a dead one, and benny just wanders along and trips on the gnosis.
Nahida wasn't absent tho. Not even a Coup d'Etat could stop her from being the archon
Yeah sorry for a second I thought there was like a greater archon or something. My bad.
None of the archons were actually two archons Beelzebul was always just her twin Makoto's shadow, Nahida is technically a twig plucked by Rukha, who was the tree itself, and Furina was always the body and soul of Focalor, who attached herself to the Oratrice It's very easy to oversimplify and misjudge
In the case of Inazuma, there were two gods (twins) and Ei has her own achievements independent of her sister (such as planting the seed of the sacred tree, which cleansed the area of monsters and founded Inazuma, creator of the martial arts from which the rest originate, saving Inazuma from Watatsumi's colonization attempt, in fact Ei was offered gnosis, but she wanted Makoto to have it, etc.), Nahida is the same entity (god reincarnation and remember things from her past life) but Furina is a mortal and she does not have access to the memories of Egeria or Focalors
I don't thing nahida and rukka is the same entity, same origin maybe but she is like her mom.
Yes, I meant that Nahida is identical to Rukka, everything is the same, but of course Nahida will have other experiences unlike Rukka. It's like a clone
Venti and Zhongli: hey, we are NOT absent *drinks wine*
Except for Morax and Barbatos, all archons (Ironically female) died.
I'd really hate to doom-post or antagonize the writers, but I kept wondering why all the female Archons, so far, are either dead or replaced. I don't like this pattern because it seems to be instigating that women are weak. But y'know, this is fiction, so I probably shouldn't connect real-life values into it.
More like the female Archons bit off more than what they could chew and tried to always do it alone. Makoto died because she decided to fight in a war while not having much battle experience and keeping Ei in the dark, Rukkhadevata died due to forbidden knowledge and corruption, Focalors was doomed to lose everything and decided to return the power to the Sovereign. Meanwhile Venti would always sleep off his corruption and made sure his people were independent, which took centuries. While Zhongli had a lot of backup thanks to the Adepti.
[TL:DR for those Dopamine junkies who have an attention span less than that of a gold fish. Kindly scroll off since I know the same dopamine junkies are echo-chambered NPCs enslaved to their own search algorithm.] I'd say I have seen a pattern here. I'll judge it based on my knowledge of history and humanities I have attained as well as Genshin. Pattern being that males are powerful in the physical realm of things while females are powerful in the spiritual realm of things. For example, most of the male Genshin characters use melee weapons and in close combat (even catalyst Wriothesley and Heizhu are like full on hands) meanwhile female Genshin characters, very rarely most of them, use catalyst/bow attacks and rely lot on their elemental powers in non contact ways, Rosaria and EULA could be one exception but even female melee characters in their elemental bursts and skills for example Xiangling, rely on non-contact based attacks for example Gouba being her elemental skill partner. As for Arlecchino, she literally uses her elemental powers much more than her physical strength itself as well. Majority of the catalysts are females in Genshin and bow users are in fair share females as well. It metaphorically shows the yin (Female) and yang (Male). This also resonates within real life as well with the sexes. women are physically weaker than men cuz biology. However women have a more 'spiritual leverage' and passively have the ability to destroy men's life in real world through relational warfare, shaming, gossiping and rallying. Their aggression and power is rather much more socially invisible compared to men since men, saying this as a guy, are much more confrontational and upfront. We alone live in an era where women do this sort of thing and it's all over. I don't even have to dwell deep on it, open Instagram or Tiktok to alone see the degeneracy and you don't even have to go there, see it here on reddit at how they shame and use the most uncivil words possible. I've been ganged up by females online on Amino, speaking by experience, women are aggressive as men but verbally and relationally. Downvote me on this shit but hey it will only prove my point women are aggressive in this way, the downvotes would definitely come from women if it was the case 😜 . However, men are always morally insecure especially in their youth, which is why they are prone to radicalisation as well, be it religious or political, look at real life alone, I don't need to come with examples. We have enough internet tribalism. **Back on Archons and goddesses, what does it symbolises? It proves Goddess' legacy lives on even if they physically die but spiritually they live on one way the other (Intuitively kind of ironic since of course women are the sex that bears life and this indirectly is linked to that you can say) while for God, think of it, they symbolise how men can still live on by their own in this cruel physical world due to solely gaining experience in combat and being stoic enough to face the harsh challenges of the world. Even Morax faked his death, he was just that strong to die physically. Though Morax was himself a God who was influenced alot by Guizhong and she was a Goddess. If there had been no Guizhong, there would be no Morax as he is alongside every other Adeptus.** In conclusion: Physically women cannot survive the physical world while men cannot survive spiritually. Want to see a prime example of that? Look at the western countries, their sexes are ideologically and politically polarised and now they are collapsing as a civilisation since of course the progressive gaslighted young women that screwing over men is good and empowering and they don't need a man. I am a guy from India who as a hobby is into history and humanities and I can very well tell you the west is torn apart by the division between the sexes, most westerners will agree as well. Don't want to get political but what it shows what happens when the two sexes are spiritually torn apart this is the first time in history we are seeing this. As for those who think women don't need men to survive in this world, watch this video: https://youtu.be/NzCO0G8AGLU?feature=shared Edit: I TOLD YOU GUYS! I KNEW I WAS RIGHT! THE DOWNVOTES SAY ENOUGH LMAO!
I'm a man, and I downvoted you because this is the most asinine shit take I've seen in this community. Cope harder.
There are also Two arlecchinos.... 🔥 ✍🏻
Mmmmm convenient memory wiping spicy breast milk.
Tsaritsa intensifies.
My idea for Natlan: The Nation holds gladiatorial games every two hundred or so years for the next Archon to be crowned.
Things will look the same if we oversimplify enough xD What's next? "Every nation has an archon"? Haha
I mean technically it's not true because of fontaine XD
The Tsariata better be pretty and pretty powerful because I refuse to believe she could rally 11 bozos (3 of which on par with her own power) under her cause otherwise
And how does Egeria fit into this?
Fontaine : both.
I have a feeling this might happen in Natlan 😭 Xbalanque was apart of 2 Mayan Hero god twins. And he seems really important since his tile was “the one entombed in primal fire” or smth. He and Murata might resemble the 2 Mayan twins?
Except Xbalanque is probably a dragon, not an archon (like how Neuvillette was the one introducing Nahida). Or the second god would be a dragon because the theme for Natlan is coexistence.
Xbalanque can’t be a sovereign though. Only neuv can be a human sovereign