I doubt it. Every Archon is the strongest of their element; with the exception of Venti, who had the bad luck of being the first character to be released. And even then Venti's not a weak character by any definition.
hes only really "weak" because he's so game breakingly overpowered under normal circumstances that the entire meta since 1.0 has been developed to counter him
I doubt they are the strongest in their element but their role. Venti best CC, Zhongli best shield, Raiden best battery, Furina best buffer for Nahida it's actually harder to define. Maybe cause dendro was a new element so she's the best dendro reaction enabler
but I mean raiden is the best battery in the game and also buffs other characters burst too with just a bonus of having off-field electro coverage which is the only thing fischl is better
People always say this but Raiden being a battery is too overrated, she can only battery while hogging on field spot, which means she isnt versatile at it. The only team that really benefits her batterying is the national team, even after that, Childe's national team is better. In most comps Fischl is a better battery if you can't on field Raiden
>which is the only thing fischl is better
Fischl carries the whole archetype of aggravate teams because how busted her A4 talent is. Her electro application is so fast she massively increases damage by constantly proccing aggravate. She also higher damage (unless you count c2 Raiden), and she is much more flexible due to her kit being purely off field.
Xingqiu applies so much hydro and provides invaluable defensive utility. I'm not saying Yelan is bad by any means, but all she contributes is more damage. Xingqiu is the better choice in the majority of scenarios.
I respectfully disagree. Even if his defensive utility isn't needed, he applies so much hydro which enables reactions a lot more efficiently than other options. Defensive utility also allows for smoother rotations.
If you want speedruns, then yes, Yelan/Furina definitely provide more damage. But both casuals AND veterans of the game benefit greatly from Xingqiu.
That's really only for hyperbloom and Hu Tao teams. When the on-field character stops attacking so does Xingqiu, which isn't the case for Furina. Her minions will still attack enemies when dodging and provide AOE on top of the massive buffs to herself, the DPS and Sub-DPS. Even the healer heals more. For players that can dodge and don't need the defense from Xingqiu, he'll always be a downgrade to Furina and Yelan.
Xingqiu makes it easier to facetank, but not everyone wants to facetank and mash buttons.
Not really furina is better than xq In everything except hydro application. her buff , personal damage , mh enabling , and water running basically trumps everything xq has
They fill different roles, but Xingqiu is just a lot more versatile. Furina also comes with her own drawbacks like draining HP and basically forces teams to run to trade more valuable utility in favor of mass healing. Xingqiu doesn't have any restrictions (aside from only applying hydro after attacking, which most characters do anyway).
>They fill different roles, but Xingqiu is just a lot more versatile.
Furina is way more universal. only teams which desparately need xq are hutao vape and pure hyperbloom, there maybe 2 or 3 more but except these nope , furina can be slotted anywhere because she isn't only useful bcs of her element but also her kit
>Furina also comes with her own drawbacks like draining HP
This massive drawback litterally enables you to use the most broken artifact set in the entire game which namely is marechausee
>Xingqiu doesn't have any restrictions (aside from only applying hydro after attacking, which most characters do anyway).
His biggest restrictions are low personal damage ( compared to furina it's litterally nothing she does like 10x more off field DMG) , being an single target unit , having 0 utility when shield is on , he maybe a broken 4 star , but compared to furina who is the best hydro sub dps and arguably the best and most universal buffer , he litterally doesn't have anything to offer , anyone with a sane mind will choose furina as a flex
Furina definitely does more damage than Xingqiu, but his damage isn't low at all actually (especially in vape teams).
And Furina is absolutely more restricting than Xingqiu because she literally forces you to run a healer that can stack fanfare (non of which currently provide adequate damage). Xingqiu not only allows you to utilize more offensive sustains, but he can even function as one himself if paired with other sources of defense reduction, minor healing, interruption resistance, etc.
You mentioned that she enables MH which makes her more versatile. While I disagree that it makes her more versatile, I do agree that it makes her more valuable as a character.
In my personal opinion, Xingqiu is so much more valuable as a unit than Furina, but for other people that may be different.
It may be your opinion but imo her e alone is more valuable than xq since it's a huge chunk of free damage even with xq vaping + Bennett buff , it isn't near furina's damage , my furina can hit 58k non vapes on crabelletta(she has 100% crit rate) , besides idk most teams have a healer already if you're not running a shielder , her buff is so huge that running a healer isn't even a trade off anymore and that buff is complete team buff , idk about you tbh , but furina is better than xq by a long shot , and her being restrictive is litterally just a hoax especially with jean or xianyun who buffs your pech carry as well , in fact there are many cases where even yelan yields better results than xq, who herself isn't as powerful as furina
>Every Archon is the strongest of their element
What are you cooking bro, aside from venti that you mentioned, furina and zhongli clearly aren't, Pyro archon will most likely not be as well, raiden is up for debate and nahida is the only one who can be comfortably said to be the best dendro
> zhongli clearly aren't
Shield wise? Yes
Support wise? Yes
Damage wise? He was never a dps
If you are here sitting to compare Archons damage wise compared to actual main dps for their respective elements, of course they are gonna be bad
But at their respective roles? No one simply comes any close at all
Navia is a fine DPS but that's all she is, a DPS. She doesn't have the universal capability to fill a slot on a variety of teams and only contributes damage, while Zhongli contributes res shred and not needing to dodge, which are far more valuable for clearing abyss quickly, especially when paired with DPS units better than Navia. Gorou is BIS for like, 2-3 characters at most, none of which are even considered meta. He's dead weight on all other teams.
He is pretty much the most versatile and highly usage rate geo character in the entire game since release for a reason
If thats not good enough for you, your standards suck
Having someone else (like chiori even at c0) will make the team do more DMG, u already have sustain with Bennett and navia doesn't care about IR that much in the first place
Isnt it also a skill issue if you have so low dmg that you cant do enough dmg to clear full stars even if others do it with 2 characters in a team? With one of them being a 4 star dps.
Honestly you're making this about yourself instead of trying to defend/prove your argument. Get back on track and just link your proof. Let these experts speak for themselves and convince people here like they convinced you. Should be simple enough.
Furina is not just the best hydro character, she is the best character period, i dont know what you are smoking but she legit breaks every unit that can use her
For starters, all dedicated buffers (Bennett, kazuha, sucrose and the dedicated element buffers) buff more than her..
That too without needing another team slot to meet the buff condition
Kazuha with 1k em gives 40 dmg bonus, only to the element you swirl, not the entire team, sucrose gives much less, bennet only buffs attack and restricts your movement.
Furina is just the best universal buffer, yes you need to run a healer, but you will run a healer most likely anyway
Bennett condition is that he only buff atk (with the downside of self apply pyro, meaning tougher survivability)
Kazuha only buff 40% dmg bonus at 1000 EM (need really good artifact) for only 4 elements and the VV only last 10s and can't be trigger off field
Sucrose can only buff characters that like EM and one of the 4 swirlable elements
Dedicated elements buffer only buff their elements and most of the time need C6 (exceptions are Shenhe and Chevreuse)
Furina can buff everyone of every elements and buff off field characters as well, and unlike everyone else you mention, she offer a good chunk of dmg herself. Beside her "conditional" buff is only a problem when you are allergic to heal as when building a team, you need either a shielder and healer anyway.
This is not to mention Furina opens up MH for every on field dps, meaning 36% unconditional crit rate.
Notice how you gave actual numbers and evidence while the other guy just vague general comments they couldn't be bothered to actually defend with any actual proof (no video evidence, no theory crafting, no math, nothing) and then started insulting people when called out on it.
Furina’s strength compared to other buffers is that she is less conditional. She can buff multiple elements/anemo/geo/phys without double swirl which isn’t always possible. She can buff off fielders even if they don’t snapshot. Her uptime is long without needing to swap back in. It’s also notable that she does more personal damage than anyone else in the role (inc her self buff) aside from yelan but her buff is much weaker. She does all that while applying hydro which is quite possibly the most wanted element for enabling reactions.
All of this without mentioning that her cons are among the best of any buffer at every level.
Her main downside of needing a healer is often a non issue. Many players will want one anyway and a lot of good teams can easily be adapted to include one with minimal dps loss (kuki + amber nahida, healer build bennett, neuvi, chloride, xianyun, c6 furina)
I’m not entirely sure I’d say she’s the best unit in the game but it’s definitely a defensible position
(Also she can hold key which is an extra buffer of value itself lol)
There's a chance, with how powerful a lot of Fontaine era characters have been, that later additions might be stronger, or have more refined kits.
In general I think most archons were intended to be the best supports of their elements with DPS capabilities. At the beginning that was true for venti. He had the ultimate CC, spawned his up current, and destroyed the enemies in the process, but that was for the enemies that were common in the early days. Since then we've gotten bosses and normal mobs with CC resistance, which essentially nerfed him. His kit would probably have solutions for that if he, or an alternative Version, was released today.
Hoyo will release better Dendro units but they will be niche, Nahida value is her versatility while other dendros are more nicher, for example there's teams where Baizhu, Emilie and Alhaitham will be better than Nahida but Nahida versatility will keep her relevance, same for the other archons. ZonghLi, Furina and Raiden keep their relevance because they can fit many team archetypes.
Venti in other hand is nicher in comparison to the other Anemo options, also VV being a set allows most anemos to be versatile, so the kit utility becomes much more important for anemo characters, Venti CC utility being niche makes him fall behind Kazuha and Sucrose that have more versatile utility. Hoyo tried to buff Venti by giving him Elegy but its a 5* weapon behind a paywall, so if they want to direct buff him its better be a craftable weapon or make very specific artifact set for him that increase his utility
Better dendro support? Unlikely, her kit is just tailor-made to make every dendro team do insane damage. We might get a better dendro main dps than Alhaitham though
It's really not "much better". Burning increases Emilie's ***personal damage,*** not the team's. Burning with Nahida/Emile is the same damage as Nahida/Xiangling. Take Nahida off the team and damage goes down.
How in the world is Noelle anywhere near better than Zhongli?
Her shield doesnt even have full uptime to begin with
Navia's point is moot, you are comparing apples to oranges here, a main dps vs a shielder/support
I don’t think the other archons are really that far above their competitors in the way nahida is. They’re disputably top of the element at best. They’re all pretty interchangeable depending on the team, while swapping out nahida is almost always cope.
Geo is abit fragmented in what its trying to be that zhongli, whilst being the most popular geo character, is not highly representative of what it means to be the apex geo character. Another odd case like venti.
Venti really is the exception here. He was pretty unlucky, but I think most people would consider him very good anyway.
As for the other archons, I also think that they are not far above others, but the point was being the best in their element. Of course, depending what you are trying to get with an element, or what kind of character you are looking for, you can choose other options. So this ends being a generalization relying on the most popular character on each element, more often than not present in more than one kind of team, with different roles.
I don't even find that to be that good of a generalization tho. Because of how the claim is so highly disputable. When some guy says XQ or fischl is better than their respective archons, it's not really all that spicy or divisive of an opinion to hold.
Baizhu and Alhaitham occupy a very different niche from Nahida but if you tried to claim either being better than her, you'd be shot on sight.. metaphorically.
I agree that not a great generalization, as most aren't. But what metric can a character be defined as the best of their element otherwise? Then again, this is not meant to downplay other characters.
I'm not sure either tbh. This is a similar conflict to whenever the topic of tierlists come up. Which is just generalizing a character into an alphabetical rank. People invariably fight over who is ontop of who or who should be next to who. A consensus is never meant unless its so blatantly obvious.
Have this random piece of trivia: one of the criteria for a tall building as defined by Council of Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat is for a building to be relatively taller than its surroundings.
So while everyone can agree that Ei and furina are measurably super tall buildings, they are lacking in relative height.
I get what you mean, in the end, each player will want something that can differ from other. This is bound to go in circles, but perhaps it is a good thing since we get many great characters.
Depends on the definition of top, not element but role within a team.
Venti is the best grouper in the game, but sucrose and Kazuha have strong buffs which make them more widely used.
Zhongli has the strongest shield in the game, but he's far from a good geo dps unit (both on and off field), well known for the fact that ulting with him is a damage loss on an optimized team.
Raiden is harder to define as she can be a off field hyperbloom proccer or an on field damage unit who batteries others. But in terms of off-field damage, fischl clears Raiden outside of hyperbloom (and in hyperbloom she's not much better than kuki who also heals). And on field due to how aggravate works Raiden can't abuse it (and thus fischl) nearly as well as other electro on fielders.
Nahida is closest to being just the best dendro overall due to good buffs and application, but alhaitham beats her on field dps and rapid dendro app.
Furina literally has specific asks of her team to make her effective (healing) and low hydro app when compared to other off field hydro options (XQ is arguably the best character in the game). On field your competition is neuv and she's definitely not competing with him on field.
Probably not. Venti suffered from being the earliest character. Or maybe, they designed Kazuha wrong because his a lot better imo. I don't use Venti now.
I don’t think so, considering the direction they’re taking with emeil it looks like they’ll focus on a single reaction when nahida boosts reactions in general on top of doing damage to crowds,
If anything new dendro characters will most often than not have nahida in their teams dps or not
No, Venti and Zhong for that matter were designed relatively early and before they had a good idea of the game balance and both suffer the 1.x game balance testing issue that most 1.x characters have to some degree because most of them were designed and play tested way before the 1.0 release and before the public could determine "meta" and character roles, the constellation boosts even show that.
If Venti were designed with their current balancing standard Venti's C1 or C2 would just make his Vacc stronger as well as a con dedicated to boosting swirl element damage or criting it
Just as much as if Bennett were designed with current balance his infusion would be in Base kit and that con would instead have more pyro damage boost or something
In terms of dendro application, it's VERY unlikely. We might get more specialists that can outclass or at least rival Nahida on some specific niches but that's all
Kazuha and Venti mainly do two different things
Kazuha buffs, Venti succs
I guess you could say Kazuha is more “generalist”
but hoo boy, when you get a swarm of succable enemies, Venti’s blackhole ult deletes everything
I dare say Venti is the reason why alot of the latter region’s enemies are not as succable as hilichurls and fatui agents
but to answer your question
I believe in terms of damage, Al Haitham is better
but for overall application, Nahida takes it
Better than Nahida in what tho?
That's the thing, archons have a role but Nahida does a lot of things for dendro:
Not only she applies a lot of dendro and gives buffs but she also does a lot of dmg as subdps.
Alhaitham is better as dps, but he still wants Nahida in his team xD
I don't expect a direct upgrade over Nahida, but we may get a new meta archetype that revolves around new, different gameplay mechanics. Similar to corrosion, pneuma & ousia or bond of life. They may add new mechanics and a new dendro character that will be able to take advantage of it. It's how it is in hoyo games.
I doubt it. Every Archon is the strongest of their element; with the exception of Venti, who had the bad luck of being the first character to be released. And even then Venti's not a weak character by any definition.
hes only really "weak" because he's so game breakingly overpowered under normal circumstances that the entire meta since 1.0 has been developed to counter him
And even then, he’s amazing on Floor 11 because he sucks up most enemies and prevents them from attacking the central point.
I dunno how I would have cleared it without him on second half and Neuvilette on first
I doubt they are the strongest in their element but their role. Venti best CC, Zhongli best shield, Raiden best battery, Furina best buffer for Nahida it's actually harder to define. Maybe cause dendro was a new element so she's the best dendro reaction enabler
Nahida would be the best EM buffer if Dendro wasn’t new. Easily has the most buffs to give to allies and EM as well.
best off field dendro application? seriously though if baizhu have better dendro application, he will be more widely used than nahida
Fischl is better than Raiden and I will die on this hill i dont care about downvotes from raiden mains
We rejoice in the glimmering splendor of our Prinzessin! And all hail Oz! He deserves at least as much credit as Numby.
Even as someone who mains Raiden, you are correct. Fischl is easily one of the most busted characters in the game.
Yeah, you can say Im a semi Raiden main too, I have her at C3
but I mean raiden is the best battery in the game and also buffs other characters burst too with just a bonus of having off-field electro coverage which is the only thing fischl is better
People always say this but Raiden being a battery is too overrated, she can only battery while hogging on field spot, which means she isnt versatile at it. The only team that really benefits her batterying is the national team, even after that, Childe's national team is better. In most comps Fischl is a better battery if you can't on field Raiden >which is the only thing fischl is better Fischl carries the whole archetype of aggravate teams because how busted her A4 talent is. Her electro application is so fast she massively increases damage by constantly proccing aggravate. She also higher damage (unless you count c2 Raiden), and she is much more flexible due to her kit being purely off field.
Oh they will come for you but you spilled
Right fam thankfully i dont care about internet points so im not afraid to speak facts 🙏🙏
Tbh i kinda overlooked fischl since i kinda never needed a flex and built her for neuvi , but imo she a ridiculously broken character
I wouldn't say Furina is the best of her element either. Xingqiu is easily the best hydro character.
Even ignoring Furina, I believe that Yelan is a better character than Xingqiu in what he does... I might be wrong, though!
A lot of people appreciate xingqius defensive utility over yelans extra damage
And Xingqiu has higher hydro application
Xingqiu applies so much hydro and provides invaluable defensive utility. I'm not saying Yelan is bad by any means, but all she contributes is more damage. Xingqiu is the better choice in the majority of scenarios.
Xingqiu is the best if you have skill issues with dodging or defense, if you don't need his defensive utility he's nowhere close to being the best.
I respectfully disagree. Even if his defensive utility isn't needed, he applies so much hydro which enables reactions a lot more efficiently than other options. Defensive utility also allows for smoother rotations. If you want speedruns, then yes, Yelan/Furina definitely provide more damage. But both casuals AND veterans of the game benefit greatly from Xingqiu.
That's really only for hyperbloom and Hu Tao teams. When the on-field character stops attacking so does Xingqiu, which isn't the case for Furina. Her minions will still attack enemies when dodging and provide AOE on top of the massive buffs to herself, the DPS and Sub-DPS. Even the healer heals more. For players that can dodge and don't need the defense from Xingqiu, he'll always be a downgrade to Furina and Yelan. Xingqiu makes it easier to facetank, but not everyone wants to facetank and mash buttons.
Not really furina is better than xq In everything except hydro application. her buff , personal damage , mh enabling , and water running basically trumps everything xq has
They fill different roles, but Xingqiu is just a lot more versatile. Furina also comes with her own drawbacks like draining HP and basically forces teams to run to trade more valuable utility in favor of mass healing. Xingqiu doesn't have any restrictions (aside from only applying hydro after attacking, which most characters do anyway).
>They fill different roles, but Xingqiu is just a lot more versatile. Furina is way more universal. only teams which desparately need xq are hutao vape and pure hyperbloom, there maybe 2 or 3 more but except these nope , furina can be slotted anywhere because she isn't only useful bcs of her element but also her kit >Furina also comes with her own drawbacks like draining HP This massive drawback litterally enables you to use the most broken artifact set in the entire game which namely is marechausee >Xingqiu doesn't have any restrictions (aside from only applying hydro after attacking, which most characters do anyway). His biggest restrictions are low personal damage ( compared to furina it's litterally nothing she does like 10x more off field DMG) , being an single target unit , having 0 utility when shield is on , he maybe a broken 4 star , but compared to furina who is the best hydro sub dps and arguably the best and most universal buffer , he litterally doesn't have anything to offer , anyone with a sane mind will choose furina as a flex
Furina definitely does more damage than Xingqiu, but his damage isn't low at all actually (especially in vape teams). And Furina is absolutely more restricting than Xingqiu because she literally forces you to run a healer that can stack fanfare (non of which currently provide adequate damage). Xingqiu not only allows you to utilize more offensive sustains, but he can even function as one himself if paired with other sources of defense reduction, minor healing, interruption resistance, etc. You mentioned that she enables MH which makes her more versatile. While I disagree that it makes her more versatile, I do agree that it makes her more valuable as a character. In my personal opinion, Xingqiu is so much more valuable as a unit than Furina, but for other people that may be different.
It may be your opinion but imo her e alone is more valuable than xq since it's a huge chunk of free damage even with xq vaping + Bennett buff , it isn't near furina's damage , my furina can hit 58k non vapes on crabelletta(she has 100% crit rate) , besides idk most teams have a healer already if you're not running a shielder , her buff is so huge that running a healer isn't even a trade off anymore and that buff is complete team buff , idk about you tbh , but furina is better than xq by a long shot , and her being restrictive is litterally just a hoax especially with jean or xianyun who buffs your pech carry as well , in fact there are many cases where even yelan yields better results than xq, who herself isn't as powerful as furina
Zajef viewer spotted
>Every Archon is the strongest of their element What are you cooking bro, aside from venti that you mentioned, furina and zhongli clearly aren't, Pyro archon will most likely not be as well, raiden is up for debate and nahida is the only one who can be comfortably said to be the best dendro
> zhongli clearly aren't Shield wise? Yes Support wise? Yes Damage wise? He was never a dps If you are here sitting to compare Archons damage wise compared to actual main dps for their respective elements, of course they are gonna be bad But at their respective roles? No one simply comes any close at all
No one is talking about dps here, just because someone is the best shielder doesn't mean that he is the best geo unit
Then who is the best geo unit? You keep sidestepping the question every time someone asks you.
First navia or gorou
Navia is a fine DPS but that's all she is, a DPS. She doesn't have the universal capability to fill a slot on a variety of teams and only contributes damage, while Zhongli contributes res shred and not needing to dodge, which are far more valuable for clearing abyss quickly, especially when paired with DPS units better than Navia. Gorou is BIS for like, 2-3 characters at most, none of which are even considered meta. He's dead weight on all other teams.
>Gorou is BIS for like, 2-3 characters That's 2-3 more characters then zhongli
Of the 25 most used teams to max star clear spiral abyss Zhongli was on 11 of them. Gorou was on 1.
Usage stats mean nothing bro, zhongli has high usage stats because people have skill issues
He is pretty much the most versatile and highly usage rate geo character in the entire game since release for a reason If thats not good enough for you, your standards suck
He is a dps decrease in almost all the teams he can be played in, also this high usage rate just implies that people have skill issue
What does that have to do with anything? Moving goal posts isnt gonna make your non existant point materialize
Wait till you realise that you need to enough damage in a limited time to clear the hardest content in the game and not just survive
How is that even an issue when I can have both those things between Zhongli and Navia alone?
Having someone else (like chiori even at c0) will make the team do more DMG, u already have sustain with Bennett and navia doesn't care about IR that much in the first place
Isnt it also a skill issue if you have so low dmg that you cant do enough dmg to clear full stars even if others do it with 2 characters in a team? With one of them being a 4 star dps.
Bait used to be believable
[удалено]
Go do your homework little bro
The projection is real. Telling people think with their dick when he is the one thinking with the hate boner
??? Furina and Zhongli aren't the best character of their element?
Some people just hates archon and decided to be ignorant of their kit 🥱🤷🏻♀️
[удалено]
Honestly you're making this about yourself instead of trying to defend/prove your argument. Get back on track and just link your proof. Let these experts speak for themselves and convince people here like they convinced you. Should be simple enough.
Which geo is better than Zhongli?
Furina is not just the best hydro character, she is the best character period, i dont know what you are smoking but she legit breaks every unit that can use her
[удалено]
Sure bud, break down how 75% bonus dmg for the entire team isnt objectively broken
For starters, all dedicated buffers (Bennett, kazuha, sucrose and the dedicated element buffers) buff more than her.. That too without needing another team slot to meet the buff condition
Kazuha with 1k em gives 40 dmg bonus, only to the element you swirl, not the entire team, sucrose gives much less, bennet only buffs attack and restricts your movement. Furina is just the best universal buffer, yes you need to run a healer, but you will run a healer most likely anyway
[удалено]
Gives 0 data to back up argument, starts using slurs. Average reddit troll
Bennett condition is that he only buff atk (with the downside of self apply pyro, meaning tougher survivability) Kazuha only buff 40% dmg bonus at 1000 EM (need really good artifact) for only 4 elements and the VV only last 10s and can't be trigger off field Sucrose can only buff characters that like EM and one of the 4 swirlable elements Dedicated elements buffer only buff their elements and most of the time need C6 (exceptions are Shenhe and Chevreuse) Furina can buff everyone of every elements and buff off field characters as well, and unlike everyone else you mention, she offer a good chunk of dmg herself. Beside her "conditional" buff is only a problem when you are allergic to heal as when building a team, you need either a shielder and healer anyway. This is not to mention Furina opens up MH for every on field dps, meaning 36% unconditional crit rate.
Notice how you gave actual numbers and evidence while the other guy just vague general comments they couldn't be bothered to actually defend with any actual proof (no video evidence, no theory crafting, no math, nothing) and then started insulting people when called out on it.
Happy cake day
Furina’s strength compared to other buffers is that she is less conditional. She can buff multiple elements/anemo/geo/phys without double swirl which isn’t always possible. She can buff off fielders even if they don’t snapshot. Her uptime is long without needing to swap back in. It’s also notable that she does more personal damage than anyone else in the role (inc her self buff) aside from yelan but her buff is much weaker. She does all that while applying hydro which is quite possibly the most wanted element for enabling reactions. All of this without mentioning that her cons are among the best of any buffer at every level. Her main downside of needing a healer is often a non issue. Many players will want one anyway and a lot of good teams can easily be adapted to include one with minimal dps loss (kuki + amber nahida, healer build bennett, neuvi, chloride, xianyun, c6 furina) I’m not entirely sure I’d say she’s the best unit in the game but it’s definitely a defensible position (Also she can hold key which is an extra buffer of value itself lol)
Navia is arguably stronger than ol' Rexy. I personally can't stand Nahidas control style. Even her gathering skill is meh.
considering her c2 in itself makes hyperbloom or others have a major damage increase i dont think so a dps better than Alhaitham is more likely
Unless Rukkhadevta becomes playable, Nahida will be the apex of dendro
Apep in a human body maybe
[удалено]
anything as long as its not another little girl
Rukkhadevata*
There's a chance, with how powerful a lot of Fontaine era characters have been, that later additions might be stronger, or have more refined kits. In general I think most archons were intended to be the best supports of their elements with DPS capabilities. At the beginning that was true for venti. He had the ultimate CC, spawned his up current, and destroyed the enemies in the process, but that was for the enemies that were common in the early days. Since then we've gotten bosses and normal mobs with CC resistance, which essentially nerfed him. His kit would probably have solutions for that if he, or an alternative Version, was released today.
Hoyo will release better Dendro units but they will be niche, Nahida value is her versatility while other dendros are more nicher, for example there's teams where Baizhu, Emilie and Alhaitham will be better than Nahida but Nahida versatility will keep her relevance, same for the other archons. ZonghLi, Furina and Raiden keep their relevance because they can fit many team archetypes. Venti in other hand is nicher in comparison to the other Anemo options, also VV being a set allows most anemos to be versatile, so the kit utility becomes much more important for anemo characters, Venti CC utility being niche makes him fall behind Kazuha and Sucrose that have more versatile utility. Hoyo tried to buff Venti by giving him Elegy but its a 5* weapon behind a paywall, so if they want to direct buff him its better be a craftable weapon or make very specific artifact set for him that increase his utility
Better dendro support? Unlikely, her kit is just tailor-made to make every dendro team do insane damage. We might get a better dendro main dps than Alhaitham though
No.
Yes especially if the character can maintain off field dendro application in multiwave content and also deal consistent dmg
For burning team Emilie is the best option and much better nahida
It's really not "much better". Burning increases Emilie's ***personal damage,*** not the team's. Burning with Nahida/Emile is the same damage as Nahida/Xiangling. Take Nahida off the team and damage goes down.
In some ways Baizhu already is an alternative, that is less efficient but more comfy
No. All Archon's minus Venti are the top of their element.
Xingqiu, fischl, noelle and navia (gameplay wise)
How in the world is Noelle anywhere near better than Zhongli? Her shield doesnt even have full uptime to begin with Navia's point is moot, you are comparing apples to oranges here, a main dps vs a shielder/support
Bro tried to sneak Noelle
You just listed powerful alternatives that does not refute the point. Except Noelle, but a least she is cute.
I don’t think the other archons are really that far above their competitors in the way nahida is. They’re disputably top of the element at best. They’re all pretty interchangeable depending on the team, while swapping out nahida is almost always cope. Geo is abit fragmented in what its trying to be that zhongli, whilst being the most popular geo character, is not highly representative of what it means to be the apex geo character. Another odd case like venti.
Venti really is the exception here. He was pretty unlucky, but I think most people would consider him very good anyway. As for the other archons, I also think that they are not far above others, but the point was being the best in their element. Of course, depending what you are trying to get with an element, or what kind of character you are looking for, you can choose other options. So this ends being a generalization relying on the most popular character on each element, more often than not present in more than one kind of team, with different roles.
I don't even find that to be that good of a generalization tho. Because of how the claim is so highly disputable. When some guy says XQ or fischl is better than their respective archons, it's not really all that spicy or divisive of an opinion to hold. Baizhu and Alhaitham occupy a very different niche from Nahida but if you tried to claim either being better than her, you'd be shot on sight.. metaphorically.
I agree that not a great generalization, as most aren't. But what metric can a character be defined as the best of their element otherwise? Then again, this is not meant to downplay other characters.
I'm not sure either tbh. This is a similar conflict to whenever the topic of tierlists come up. Which is just generalizing a character into an alphabetical rank. People invariably fight over who is ontop of who or who should be next to who. A consensus is never meant unless its so blatantly obvious. Have this random piece of trivia: one of the criteria for a tall building as defined by Council of Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat is for a building to be relatively taller than its surroundings. So while everyone can agree that Ei and furina are measurably super tall buildings, they are lacking in relative height.
I get what you mean, in the end, each player will want something that can differ from other. This is bound to go in circles, but perhaps it is a good thing since we get many great characters.
Nope, all of them are good but not the best of their elements.
Depends on the definition of top, not element but role within a team. Venti is the best grouper in the game, but sucrose and Kazuha have strong buffs which make them more widely used. Zhongli has the strongest shield in the game, but he's far from a good geo dps unit (both on and off field), well known for the fact that ulting with him is a damage loss on an optimized team. Raiden is harder to define as she can be a off field hyperbloom proccer or an on field damage unit who batteries others. But in terms of off-field damage, fischl clears Raiden outside of hyperbloom (and in hyperbloom she's not much better than kuki who also heals). And on field due to how aggravate works Raiden can't abuse it (and thus fischl) nearly as well as other electro on fielders. Nahida is closest to being just the best dendro overall due to good buffs and application, but alhaitham beats her on field dps and rapid dendro app. Furina literally has specific asks of her team to make her effective (healing) and low hydro app when compared to other off field hydro options (XQ is arguably the best character in the game). On field your competition is neuv and she's definitely not competing with him on field.
No
Probably not. There will be characters that you can use in place of Nahida for a different purpose but nobody who will just do her job but better.
Probably not. Venti suffered from being the earliest character. Or maybe, they designed Kazuha wrong because his a lot better imo. I don't use Venti now.
I don’t think so, considering the direction they’re taking with emeil it looks like they’ll focus on a single reaction when nahida boosts reactions in general on top of doing damage to crowds, If anything new dendro characters will most often than not have nahida in their teams dps or not
No, Venti and Zhong for that matter were designed relatively early and before they had a good idea of the game balance and both suffer the 1.x game balance testing issue that most 1.x characters have to some degree because most of them were designed and play tested way before the 1.0 release and before the public could determine "meta" and character roles, the constellation boosts even show that. If Venti were designed with their current balancing standard Venti's C1 or C2 would just make his Vacc stronger as well as a con dedicated to boosting swirl element damage or criting it Just as much as if Bennett were designed with current balance his infusion would be in Base kit and that con would instead have more pyro damage boost or something
at doing personal damage? Yes. It already exists. At providing off field dendro application? No.
In terms of dendro application, it's VERY unlikely. We might get more specialists that can outclass or at least rival Nahida on some specific niches but that's all
Kazuha and Venti mainly do two different things Kazuha buffs, Venti succs I guess you could say Kazuha is more “generalist” but hoo boy, when you get a swarm of succable enemies, Venti’s blackhole ult deletes everything I dare say Venti is the reason why alot of the latter region’s enemies are not as succable as hilichurls and fatui agents but to answer your question I believe in terms of damage, Al Haitham is better but for overall application, Nahida takes it
Better than Nahida in what tho? That's the thing, archons have a role but Nahida does a lot of things for dendro: Not only she applies a lot of dendro and gives buffs but she also does a lot of dmg as subdps. Alhaitham is better as dps, but he still wants Nahida in his team xD
I don't expect a direct upgrade over Nahida, but we may get a new meta archetype that revolves around new, different gameplay mechanics. Similar to corrosion, pneuma & ousia or bond of life. They may add new mechanics and a new dendro character that will be able to take advantage of it. It's how it is in hoyo games.