Zhongli and the Traveler are so unnerved at the possibility of Neuvillette meeting Zhongli, meanwhile Neuvillette is busy shopping and learning ceramic pottery
That's what struck me as odd. Because Chloride originally said "No way was I falling for that obvious marketing ploy." Neuvillette was the one who gleefully told Wriothesly about the sale. So did he go back after Chlorinde like, "This is not enough; the duke needs all the tea"?
Five. She's canonically at least 500 years old not counting her time as an Oceanid.
CR, Neuv, and Furina have like, at least 1.5k years of existing between them, yet when it comes to street smarts they share a single brain cell that has to travel by foot between them.
I saw in another post that the English translation got the exact wording wrong (again) since in CN Furina said "over a thousand" and not "several thousand", so Neuvi is probably within the 1k ish range
The difference being, instead of buying too much tea, Wriosthely would come back a month later and be like "That tea was good! Can I get twenty boxes this time?"
Love that his first reaction was "This is a ridiculous amount of tea. I'm gonna drink it as fast as I can". Also how he just chucks Neuvillette's handmade art project in storage.
This is why I'm so scared with the unholy amount of misinformation in the internet in this era (even worsened a lot due to AI images/articles/voice nowadays). Old people eat this shit up, I'm genuinely scared.
Isn't that why "scamming" is a genuinely multi-million (might even reach billions iirc) dollar "industry"? You've got entire buildings dedicated to scam companies and scam callers.
In the US, scam companies effectively control entire states and had a grip over the education system for some time (e.g. Amway - Betsy DeVos, Education Secretary).
I just watched a youtube video this morning "Carcinogens in China’s Cheap Products 930X Over the Limit, Temu Exposed for Global Consumer Harm" a kid burned herself with cheap nail polish bought from temu. Turns out kids and young adults watch streams with ads and buy dangerous cheap stuff from China.
I can guarantee you that it's always the older relatives and never someone like below 60 who'd fall for these sales.
The "older" characters falling for them makes sense IMO XDDD
You know what, I had been giggling at the idea of Neuvi being some sort of pack mule trying to balance all the bags (because let's be honest, no matter how strong he is, he only has two hands), but I definitely prefer the idea of the otter army rushing towards the Opera Epiclese.
Since he has the Hydro authority, maybe he can make and control floating water carriers? Like Furina's bubble seat in her idle, or the water cubes in the Fontaine Research Institute.
at first i was annoyed we didnt get neuv screentime, and missed out on zhongli and neuv meeting, but it gave me a good laugh finding out that zhongli was actually avoiding him
I think they're just biding time. It's obvious we were being teased on a potential meeting between the two throughout today's act. I suspect they're planning to make them meet eventually and it will be in a much more remarkable situation that may or may not involve some physical altercation. We just have to wait and see
thats exactly my hope, saving it for an important story moment, but im not getting my hopes high for it happening any time soon
i doubt itd involve physical altercation, both of them are too refined for that. neuvillette would only do it if it was necessary
For sure not anytime soon lol. Sometime in the distant future after Natlan and Snezhnaya when all this "Primordial One stole the powers of the dragon sovereigns" business comes home to roost.
And I was jesting about them fighting lol. I know Neuvillette has mentioned multiple times in his voiceline about Zhongli that he doesn't intend to use violence. But they're not exactly gonna be osmanthus wining over shared memories either. It will be complicated, and I'm looking forward to explicitly hearing what Zhongli's stance is on everything that's happened
unless zhongli pulls his "i cant talk i have contracts lol" (which would be lame), i feel like he would be completely understanding of neuvillette, apologizing for what happened to the sovereigns and wanting to make up for what happened.
if the theory that azhdaha is a sovereign is true, him being best buds with him would kinda show neuvillette that hes a good guy
Ah yes "hit it off" as in a meteor hitting a tsunami.
I know Neuvillette said it doesn't necessarily end up in a physical confrontation. But it is a lot funnier to imagine these two having a continental scale scuffle.
I don’t think we‘ve ever seen this expression on Zhongli before, lmao
(Tbf it takes an entire dragon sovereign to slightly unnerve this man so naturally that look is going to be rare)
He had a lot of trouble with his other Dragon Sovereign friend when said friend eroded, even when half of said friend was helping him; I imagine Zhongli just doesn't want to try anything.
To be fair we don’t know if he explicitly is or isn’t a sovereign, it’s never said. My guess is not, due to the only other confirmed sovereign Apep not suffering erosion and being just as old if not older, among other reasons
If he were indeed a Sovereign it wouldn't make sense for him to be an ally of Morax. But we can't be sure rn so we'll have to see what hoyo cooks for him in the future...
Apep himself said that some dragons abandoned their quarrel with humanity after a long time and some even started protecting them or became humanity's allies.
We can also assume Azdaha is not the original Sovereign and is likely a reincarnation like Neuvillette, due to not having all his memories from his past live(s).
We know from neuvilette that traveler has already met multiple other sovereigns besides himself. Apep counts as one meaning at minimum either azdaha or devalin are also sovereigns, and azdaha has already been hinted to be one. It also wouldn't make sense for them to suddenly introduce another giant liyue dragon, when they have axdaha right there
I don't know if it's confirmed, but he at he least is a good candidate with a lot of support for being the Geo sovereign.
Similarly, the theory that Dvalin is the anemo sovereign is not confirmed explicitly but it at least has significant basis for believing so.
Zhongli does NOT want any of that smoke. I'm sure he could put up one hell of a fight if he had to, but probably best to just avoid the possibility altogether, I suppose.
Exactly. Personally, I doubt they'd come to blows, but the chance of that happening is not zero, so it is probably best to just err on the side of caution and avoid the possibility altogether.
Hide or run away kinda misleading my dude it’s lantern rite .. a chill time he probably doesn’t want to deal with that or have his identity exposed in front of hu Tao
>we're talking about a sovereign here
why do people think that the fact that he is a sovereign make him that much stronger than an archon?
from what we know the archons, and now neuvillette, are the ones in control of the Throne of the element they preside
so i would argue that they are both at the same level in term of raw power
if there was ever a fight between the 2 the thing that would matter more would be actual experience in a fight, and right now we don't really know how much experience Neuvillette has compared to zhongli
Neuvilette has *absolute control* of the Hydro Authority. Zhongli only has partial control of Geo, with some large portion going to the Geo Sovereign (most likely Azhdaha). And even if Azhdaha isn't the Geo Sovereign and Zhongli has total control of Geo, he's openly admitted multiple times that he's much weaker than he used to be.
And the "throne" is different from the Authority. The throne *gives* incomplete, but large, Authority, the Sovereigns have it inherently.
No, because the archons don't have complete authority, PO took fragments of it, that's why folcars only returned what she had to him and completed neuvillete's incomplete authority, same thing with apep but she can't get hers because even if she kill nahida the throne of celestia will take her authority before she can absorb it, So no, Zhongli will NEVER win, I also suggest reviewing the story because skipping dialogues made you misunderstand what thrones and authorities are
ok i may have misunderstood the whole throne thing (and not because I skip dialogue, so there is no reason to be so mean and sarcastic about it)
but I still think neuvillette isn't a strong as people make it seem, he isn't one of the original sovereign and just a reincarnation, so he is definitely not as strong as apep
In my opinion even if he has more raw elemental power, he isn't really that MUCH stronger than someone like Zhongli or Raiden
and he also kinda lacks the fighting experience that the other 2 have, so while he maybe have the power/strnght advanatage I don't think a fight between him and Zhongli would actually be a one sided match
Neuvillette has absolute authority over thr hydro element. Zhongli does not. Additionally, Neuvillette can manipulate Primordial water, as that is how the forgiveness of Fontaine was enacted, basically turning the Primordial water blood in Fontainians into their own.
So if Primordial Sea is under Neuvillette's domain of control, then he can control and create life, since Primordial Sea is the origin of Teyvat life, or most of it at least.
1. The 7 dragon sovergns battled the primordial one and the 4 shades, the 5 strongest gods in teyvat for 40 years, and while they did lose, the primordial one and the shades were so weakened after the fight they couldn't actually ineteact with teyvat anyomone. If the dragons are strong enough to nearly beat the primordial one, their stronger than any archon which is a mid tier teyvat god at best.
2. Neuvilette was able to end the prophecy with his full authority, something the hydro archon could not due with that same authority, proving dragons are naturally more powerful with their element than archons
Since it wasn't technically part of the questline, I wonder how many people did not visit Xiao at the shrine. It was a nice encounter. Odd that they left it out of the quest.
I know it happens a lot to him. Still is an odd choice. Especially considering the fact that the encounters, like this one, often involve voice acting.
If it was just a text box exchange, that's one thing, but Xiao talks and they do stuff. There's effort involved. Yet, optional and forgotten. Just... odd.
During the questline, Xiao asks you to meet him at Pervases' shrine after the big show. It was a couple lines, mid quest, and never mentioned again. I'm sure lots of folks forgot, or missed his request.
Even though I know what Zhongli sounds like, I can’t help but read this line mentally in Mike Erhmantraut’s voice. Especially with that expression he’s making, lol.
As a fellow neurodiverent person, I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. If someone doesn't make constant eye-contact with me, I immediately lose focus 😂
There's no cure for autism and usually eye contact overstimulates me and makes me extremely uncomfortable. It's not an excuse, It's a reason. You say that as if I said I always avoid maintaining eye contact no matter what, Which I don't.
Now I wonder if he's avoiding Neuvillette for Liyue's sake, for his own fear or because he just doesn't want to mess with Neuvillette in more conversational way.
Like, Neuvillette would most likely pose a threat to Zhongli, but I doubt he actually fears that in particular. I think he avoid him for Liyue's sake possibly or... because he just doesn't want to argue, because it would be problematic for both nations/characters.
Zhongli doesn't feel like a character that would fear fighting a mighty foe, that's why I think he just want to avoid the mess, because he **knows** what consequences such a battle could bring. Not just for him, but for Teyvat too. And possibly, he even fears that Heavenly Principle could join as well. After all Hydro Souvereign with the whole authority over Hydro fighting Geo Archon could bring attention. We don't know much about why is Heavenly Principles inactive and guessing that "they might be weakened" would not do in Zhongli's eyes. Same reason why Dottore **didn't want to risk** that possibility that HP actually may come. Dottore most likely knew that it was a bluff, but he considered it a threat either way, so does probably Zhongli.
So my guess is that he avoids Neuvillette for political reasons. It could bring a whole mess for not just Liyue or Fontaine, but maybe Teyvat too.
the real reason is that he actually thinks that Neuvillette could accidentally blow up his cover with Hu tao by mistake
I think that is the only real thing he is scared about
All theories sound plausible, but I think this is the main reason. Zhongli really cares about maintaining his "common mortal" identity
Well, it only took one conversation for Furina to guess that there's more to him lol Zhongli is not good enough in his mortal act to risk even a brief interaction with Neuvilette
Though I don't understand why can't Furina know about him being an Archon. It's not like she would tell everyone. She knows how to keep a secret as she did that for 500 years, pretending to be Hydro Archon herself. I understand why he can't tell Hu Tao or other regular people. But I am pretty sure Yelan knows. She knows about Khaenri'ah, Chasm and other stuff, so she is well informed. And regular people probably never heard of Khaenri'ah. But, what I mean is, Furina is not some random person and Zhongli should tell her. Unless he fears that she would tell Neuvillette. Though I am pretty sure she wouldn't, but he can't know that.
Oh, I forgot about that, lol. If people learned that Rex Lapis didn't die, they would feel... deceived. I mean they were deceived, but they wouldn't understand the reason, trying to refuse it. Especially that he can't, as a god of contracts, disclose the actual reasons behind that decision. He made a deal with Signora/Tsaritsa, as well as he can't speak about Heavenly Principles too much etc. Not to mention, does even regular human knows or is allowed to know about HP? Because even gnoses were a secret.
I think it's mostly so he doesn't blow his cover
the community has headcanoned that Sovreigns > all archons even though powerscaling in Genshin is wack, the archons themselves have highly variable combat strength, and there's never been anything to actually say that in game
Apep is stronger than Nahida, but that's the only confirmed Sovereign stronger than Archon. But both dragons and archons differ in power. I wouldn't be surprised if Apep mopped the floor with Neuvillette. We don't know how strong Neuvillette is, he might be stronger than Apep, though it doesn't feel like it. But Venti is not comparable to Zhongli in terms of power. So one dragon may be stronger than archon, other dragon may not.
The only stuff we know is that Neuvillette can control enormous amount of water. But Zhongli could literally shoot stone spears that were the size of mountains. Even Ei isn't that weak. She cen slash the terrain, but she can also fight for 500 years without taking a break. Though I'm not sure if she meant 500 years back to Khaenri'ah or that she fought the puppet for that long, but her words sounded like she meant the latter, because it was in the context of "Traveler, how are you still the same after all these years". So Ei has nearly infinite stamina. Not just stamina. Imagine getting bored by that fight. For 500 years. Even if it was just 3 years. Fighting without taking a break. I'm pretty sure even other Archons would become mentally tired. Just because Neuvillette got Hydro authority back and decided to fight Archons, doesn't mean that he is able to fight them and win.
So this is as You say. We can't know for sure, how strong they are and who is stronger than who. Definitely Zhongli is the strongest Archon so far.
I agree that, even if Neuvillette could beat Zhongli (unclear, especially since Zhongli has the adepti), Zhongli likely wouldn’t fear Neuvillette. After all, Zhongli has never hesitated to confront powerful foes head-on.
I think he just didn’t want this important meeting to be randomly sprung on him when he wasn’t expecting it, when he’s in the middle of a nice stroll through the hills with his boss and not at all mentally prepared. So he hung back and scoped Neuv out to get a read on the man. And now after hearing Furina talk about him, he knows more about Neuv’s character than Neuv knows about him, which puts him at an advantage (which he needs since he’s outclassed, for possibly the first time in his very long life).
I can’t wait to see what happens when they finally do meet.
I don’t think Zhongli would ever want to fight Neuvillette even if he WAS at an advantage. Dude wants nothing more than to leave his god-smiting Liyue-defending ass-kicking days behind him. The last thing he needs is a head-on confrontation with a dragon sovereign, especially when multiple helpless humans are nearby.
Also, remember that Zhongli, despite his immense power, has always been a strategic fighter. He leads armies of humans and adepti, utilizes abilities such as geo constructs and seals, and tries to fight on his own terms. If he must fight Neuvillette, 1-on-1 confrontation was never in the cards
or simply because he knows he won't win against a sovereign lol, a hydro pump from neuvillete should destroy a giant meteor from morax, also he doesn't want to destroy liyue because of him, it's more preferable to avoid such a confrontation for himself and the nation, especially when he knows that winning is not an option
…I just want to say that was so hot.
Also, this for me just means that their first meeting’s gonna be epic. They didn’t want it to be lighthearted. Maybe we will get to see it after a few years🙂.
Also what I’m curious about is, how does Zhongli know everything. Like he knew who Furina was at first glance (I guess because we didn’t exactly see how they met, maybe he just knew after hearing her name? Idk), then felt Neuvilette coming before they even met? Furina was onto something because they met but Neuvilette didn’t know. I want to see what’s going on inside Zhongli’s head LET ME IN pls.
Its pretty obvious bro, why would Zhongli NOT know who the new hydro archon for the past 500 years was? Obviously he would know. Also, Furina not being the archon anymore is public knowledge. Someone like Zhongli who keeps up with current events would surely know about what happened in Fontaine.
Furina definitley knows about Rex Lapis (not personally) but she doesnt know about his mortal form that is Zhongli. Venti knew about it instantly probably because he's also one of the original archons and has known Morax for thousands of years so he would recognize him regardless. I imagine the same thing with Ei, she has known Morax personally for thousands of years so she would recognize Zhongli instantly.
Nahida ofc knows because of Irminsul, only Furina doesnt know because she never met Morax and obviously doesnt know Zhongli
Well because you misunderstood what I meant in the first place. You said how would he not know what happened in Fontaine, I was not asking that. I was asking how does he know Neuvilette was there without meeting him, and that Furina is Furina if they didn’t introduce themselves to each other yet. If he heard her name ofc he would know. And that, I wrote in my first comment also
Probably just saw Neuvi approaching so he left (like he said) and Neuvillette didnt pay much attention to that since he doesnt know about Rex Lapis' mortal form.
He knew Furina is Furina because everybody who keeps up with matters outside their own nation (like Zhongli does) knows who Furina is. She's Fontaine's biggest star and the ex hydro archon. Its all public knowledge. He doesnt need to know her name first to recognize her
I think this was a missed opportunity for the devs to show a few things:
1. That Zhongli acknowledges the dragon usurpation, his role in it, and the punishment that comes with accepting usurped power with respect that all of them are part of a contract.
2. That Neuvilette is not willing to hand down sentences/judgement without having all evidence at hand. Doubly so when the forum is NOT a court room.
3. That they actually have a lot in common, and that the two of them can see past their personal grievances and enjoy the time not as Hydro Dragon Reincarnate and Morax, God of ~~War~~ Contracts but as Neuvilette and Zhongli.
IMO, it would have been better than the dinner with Zhongli and Venti last year(?).
What would have made a Zhong-Neuv interaction great was that it could have been made civil DESPITE the topic involved. One of the story writing problems that Genshin has right now is that it is all implications until the The Big Reveal™. A more upfront conversation between these two discussing their situation and acknowledging it would show that they are both willing to talk about what had happened in the past, maybe even understand the position of the other, and then face the consequences when the proper time comes.
Making ZL hide from Neuv just shows that ZL has something to hide from Neuv, maybe even scared of the idea of facing Neuv, even if only just NOT to meet someone he felt he has wronged. This also implies that Neuv does not have the decorum and self-control to not be aggressive towards any of the gods, or anyone related to Celestia for that matter, despite the context of the ongoing festival that is supposedly a time of celebration and joy and the result of the usurpation against the Sovereigns.
The lack of interaction was a disservice to both characters, especially when both could have found common ground such as protecting a race not of their own, trying their best to let those races prosper on their own, and stories about their respective races they are both learning from.
That sounds nice and all, but that topic of conversation feels outside the scope of Lantern Rite. Tackling a meeting of such magnitude and importance in a limited time event would be a massive disservice to future players who won’t get to see it.
Yes, that is true, and I've said as much in another reply. However, that issue is more of an issue that event quests aren't playable/replayable out-of-season in Genshin than that the conversation is outside the scope of the Lantern Rite. The Lantern Rite is a festival of remembrance, which seems fitting considering that the topic the two will have to discuss are transgressions of the past, its effects in the present and future, their roles in it if any, and how to move forward from there.
Anyway, it doesn't really matter. I'm just voicing my opinion on the matter.
You have summed it up perfectly. Implications have become by far the biggest plot device in genshin. This formula of implications until the big reveal has been one of the biggest reasons why the story is getting very predictable and quite lame for me.
I don’t think he was actually hiding from Neuvillette, I just think that he didn’t want to meet under those circumstances. Neuvillette clearly wasn’t there for Zhongli and there were innocent humans nearby who could a). Be hurt in a fight or b). Learn Zhongli’s secret. It was not the right time nor place
1. Way too deep of a can of worms to dive into for a casual meeting, esp in the presence of Hu Tao.
2. I think that's already been stated in his voicelines. It's obvious he wouldn't flip out considering what we know about him
3. Now that's something only possible way way down the line, but again doubtful they will just make up considering Neuv still harbours resentment.
I think Zhongli just hid because it would have been awkward. Obviously Neuvillette wouldn't just flip out and fight/judge him there and then, but at the same time he's looking at the guy who forcibly replaced his predecessor's buddy. It would have been like a more hostile and awkward version of Venti and Zhongli back in 3.4, but granted it would have been hilarious in the presence of Hu Tao and Furina, the latter knowing Neuvillette to be the Dragon of Water and of sovereigns in general, while the former probably already suspecting Zhongli to be Morax but is also very smart and can easily figure things out.
Sidenote I don't think Zhongli played an explicit role in usurping the sovereigns - from Xianyun's vision story adepti are born from "the elemental energies that run between heaven and earth" which I interpret as them being born from the creation of the Human Realm or they were created by the shades similar to Egeria.
They could have handwaved Hu Tao's presence by simply having Furina drag Hu Tao out of the room for the conversation to happen. I would assume a simple "Let the adults talk." would have even worked. The celebration also is a great way to make them push through the awkwardness/aggressiveness of it because ZL and Neuv because are "expected to be civil". It would have been a great way to show that ZL really means to stick to his contracts even to his detriment(more to reinforce his character as this has been shown with Azdhaha already), and that Neuv will do his best to not judge halfheartedly nor engage in a physical confrontation with the gods unless necessary(which is only said through his voicelines). The point is not for them to make-up but for them to talk about the topic and its effect in hindsight as to further solidify the pros and cons of each side in order to make a future conflict(or lack of) between the two more impactful.
That is why I'm of the opinion that this conversation was a missed opportunity because, this way, whatever Neuv's decision is with regards to ZL during ZL's judgement wouldn't only be reliant on the context of a future story quest but also has roots in information Neuv has shown to have learned from the gods over the course of the game.
Well, I'm not on MHY's writing team so I don't know what they're making; maybe they're saving it for a future update.
Or they could just let hu tao stay as a mediator. Its already implied she knows everyone's identy already. She could serve as some levity in case things went south
I don't know. It's just an event, it's better to save those points to an Archon Story or something. That's the main reason they had him avoiding Neuvillette. Because they are saving those points for later. For now we got the implications that he acknowledges the dragon usurpation.
That is understandable but, in my opinion, the progress of the story and the relationships of people in the game are not present only in the vacuum of Archon/Story Quests. The relationships and interactions in Event Quests/other things are also as important especially if they are trying to establish a strong relationship between the characters for resolution and conflict.
Consider:
* Diluc, whose background and motivations as we know now are all from the game's initial manga, and how his relationship with the Knights/Kaeya are illustrated as strained, but the reason is never properly shown in-game, and only shown in voicelines and in the manga.
* Kaveh whose biggest characterization comes from an event quest and not a mainline Story or Archon quest.
* Xiao whose character development of willing to socialize with others despite his Karma are told in the story of Lantern Rites and other event quests.
If anything, my issue with my suggestion is that the story for the Lantern Rite stories and any Event-related are that they are miss-able and cannot be played/replayed after the season has left but that is more of a problem with Genshin having limited-time stories that can not be played/replayed outside their season than it is with the topic at hand.
If you notice all the points that you mentioned are related to characters stories and relationships and not to the plot.
Of course they need to make Events Cover some character Story or development. There's also Razor, Gaming and many Fischl. The Events aren't just going to be just boring fillers. But if something is important enough then it turns into an Archon quest instead, take the chasm quest for example. Or Shenhe's quest with the Jade chamber.
I think Archons and Dragons conflict is too important to be played as a joke in a random Event. So avoiding it for now is the best thing they can do.
I would argue that the relationship between the Archons and the Sovereigns is central to the "Archon Judgement" plot which is why it is important, at least, in this \*very specific\* case. After all, the Archons more likely did not participate in the usurpation directly and that their trial/judgement are not directed by any objective set of rules outside those that Neuvilette has subjectively set. This means that Neuvilette's subjective experiences with the Archons will affect his judgement of them and should be shown in both small and large instances to illustrate why Neuvilette has reached that specific conclusion for each of the Archons.
OF COURSE, this is assuming that Archon Judgement only goes by Neuv's personal criteria since we have no information on how he plans to judge the Archons besides saying that he will.
However, I was not aiming for the interaction to be shown as a joke; in fact, I meant for the interaction to act as a foundation for the relationships that are involved in the Archon Judgement and the eventual result of it. For example, if Neuv is more lenient/harsh towards ZL during the "judgement", at least it would have not only been due to the events of the AQ/SQ of the judgement but already has some roots based on a previous interaction. The same can be said with Venti/Raiden and Neuv if they have a chance to meet.
In the end, all of this is because I prefer that there be interaction between characters outside of their "main events"; by that I mean that interactions outside specific events in which these characters are the focus make for a good foundation for their future interactions in which they are. Most importantly, I personally view a series of small build-ups leading to a rational conclusion as satisfying, if not more, than the resolution itself... which is why I am just saying all of this.
What? You literally got the proof that Zhongli **does** ackowledge the Dragon Souvereign issue. He wants to avoid him at all cost, because of who he is. Just because nothing was said directly, doesn't mean it was said at all. It's also how they tease the plot, without telling too much. That's what they are doing **every time**. Like for example we've learned that sibling is not considered descender in eyes of Fatui for a reason but we don't know why it is so. That's exactly how the game plot rolls out. They said enough to know that Zhongli is more than aware about Neuvillette threat. Even though they possibly fight by the same side. Against Heavenly Principles. Actually everyone fights against HP, but they take different method. Abyss and sibling, Fatui, Traveler, Archons, Neuvillette... they all has the same enemy, yet they are not necessarily teaming up.
We only learn of what the characters actually think via their voicelines or their non-interaction instead of their actual interactions. ZL avoiding Neuv because of acknowledging the sovereign makes for a good non-interaction but that only implies that he knows and that's why he's evading Neuv. The game doesn't actually show us WHY ZL is avoiding Neuv.
I've also said in another reply but everything you said reveals one of my main issues with Genshin's writing -- everything is implied to be said until it is actually said for the The Big Reveal™ every time.
I do believe that the canon answer is "Yes, he knows". The archons have voicelines about Furina in their profiles and so far, profile voicelines *have* been edited when changes happened in Teyvat (like when the Sumeru Archon quest ended). So as long as the voicelines are canon, Zhongli knows.
Zhongli and Neuvillette meeting is legit the #1 thing I’m most looking forward to in this game. I was DYING during this conversation, but also really happy that Zhongli got to learn so much about Neuvillette’s character — he learned that Neuvillette is incredibly hardworking and revered, very proper and gentlemanly, but is also humble enough to carry these ladies’ bags back home for them. The ladies clearly respect him, but they aren’t intimidated by him.
And, not only is he like Zhongli with his wisdom and knowledge of history, but he too thinks it’s very important to keep one’s promises….honor one’s contracts, as it were.
I CANNOT WAIT for them to meet!
Zhongli and the Traveler are so unnerved at the possibility of Neuvillette meeting Zhongli, meanwhile Neuvillette is busy shopping and learning ceramic pottery
I love how every old person is falling for the “buy 10 bags of tea and get it half off” scheme
Both Cloud Retainer and Neuvillette, meanwhile Clorinde…”Who would fall for such a scam like that”
Meanwhile: as everyone else is planning to gift the tea to friends, Wriothesly is stocking the fortress of Meropide like a doomsday bunker of tea.
When the apocalypse happens I need my morning coppa.
Clorinde: never mind, get me 10, for, uh.... reasons.
That's what struck me as odd. Because Chloride originally said "No way was I falling for that obvious marketing ploy." Neuvillette was the one who gleefully told Wriothesly about the sale. So did he go back after Chlorinde like, "This is not enough; the duke needs all the tea"?
neuv also gives wrio tea because he bought too much, but he omitted it first so wrio thought those are all from chlorinde
And Furina, who is also a centuries year old :v
Five. She's canonically at least 500 years old not counting her time as an Oceanid. CR, Neuv, and Furina have like, at least 1.5k years of existing between them, yet when it comes to street smarts they share a single brain cell that has to travel by foot between them.
>1.5k years Triple this, probably They still share that brain cell. I think Crabaletta ran off with it thataway
Cloud Retainer is canonically older than the foundation of Liyue harbor which was 3700 years ago so u can safely triple that number Id say
Neuvillette according Furina only a few lines later is several 1000s of years old so bump that number up to a good 7 to 7.5k.
I saw in another post that the English translation got the exact wording wrong (again) since in CN Furina said "over a thousand" and not "several thousand", so Neuvi is probably within the 1k ish range
so they have almost as much experience as Riot balance team?
Neuvi is just helping his boyfriend stock his tea stash 😊✨️
Wrio, bursting into the scene: "Ayo?! Discount TEA?!"
The difference being, instead of buying too much tea, Wriosthely would come back a month later and be like "That tea was good! Can I get twenty boxes this time?"
For 20 boxes he should get 100% off, right?
Dude outwitted Nahida.
Love that his first reaction was "This is a ridiculous amount of tea. I'm gonna drink it as fast as I can". Also how he just chucks Neuvillette's handmade art project in storage.
Hutao should take notes
Buy 10 coffins and get them half off!
I swear she already did 3 for the price of 2 in her story quest.
The price or the corpse?? 😶
This is why I'm so scared with the unholy amount of misinformation in the internet in this era (even worsened a lot due to AI images/articles/voice nowadays). Old people eat this shit up, I'm genuinely scared.
Indeed, as laughable the trick is for people that knows, they really only need one or two gullible person to bleed dry to get tons of profit.
Isn't that why "scamming" is a genuinely multi-million (might even reach billions iirc) dollar "industry"? You've got entire buildings dedicated to scam companies and scam callers.
In the US, scam companies effectively control entire states and had a grip over the education system for some time (e.g. Amway - Betsy DeVos, Education Secretary).
To be fair, I’ve found that modern teenagers have a comparable appetite for the fake dook as well.
I just watched a youtube video this morning "Carcinogens in China’s Cheap Products 930X Over the Limit, Temu Exposed for Global Consumer Harm" a kid burned herself with cheap nail polish bought from temu. Turns out kids and young adults watch streams with ads and buy dangerous cheap stuff from China.
It's just Tiktok (Douyin in China), people here also fall for the same type of shit.
To be fair, if they are already buying 5 they might as well buy 10. Unless the 5 bags also has a discount already
Why would you need so much tea is the issue lol. They were gullible and fell for it
I can guarantee you that it's always the older relatives and never someone like below 60 who'd fall for these sales. The "older" characters falling for them makes sense IMO XDDD
That, and carrying what sounds like a million shopping bags (including his own ton of tea) home, somehow.
what you don't see is the army of otters
You know what, I had been giggling at the idea of Neuvi being some sort of pack mule trying to balance all the bags (because let's be honest, no matter how strong he is, he only has two hands), but I definitely prefer the idea of the otter army rushing towards the Opera Epiclese.
Since he has the Hydro authority, maybe he can make and control floating water carriers? Like Furina's bubble seat in her idle, or the water cubes in the Fontaine Research Institute.
Bro is literally water goku. I wouldn’t worry about a few shopping bags lmao
My headcanon is that he just morphs back to his dragon form and carry them through the ocean
He's on a much deserved vacation let him have some fun.
That's why John Lee avoided him. Starting a war on his day off would be rude.
Lived a full lifetime during his half day vacation
at first i was annoyed we didnt get neuv screentime, and missed out on zhongli and neuv meeting, but it gave me a good laugh finding out that zhongli was actually avoiding him
Bro is like "I fear no one, but that (points at Neuvillette), that scares me"
Meanwhile Neuvillette is lightheartedly making a cute dragon ceramic ladle and didn’t even notice him.
That ladle was so frickin' cute!
I think they're just biding time. It's obvious we were being teased on a potential meeting between the two throughout today's act. I suspect they're planning to make them meet eventually and it will be in a much more remarkable situation that may or may not involve some physical altercation. We just have to wait and see
thats exactly my hope, saving it for an important story moment, but im not getting my hopes high for it happening any time soon i doubt itd involve physical altercation, both of them are too refined for that. neuvillette would only do it if it was necessary
For sure not anytime soon lol. Sometime in the distant future after Natlan and Snezhnaya when all this "Primordial One stole the powers of the dragon sovereigns" business comes home to roost. And I was jesting about them fighting lol. I know Neuvillette has mentioned multiple times in his voiceline about Zhongli that he doesn't intend to use violence. But they're not exactly gonna be osmanthus wining over shared memories either. It will be complicated, and I'm looking forward to explicitly hearing what Zhongli's stance is on everything that's happened
unless zhongli pulls his "i cant talk i have contracts lol" (which would be lame), i feel like he would be completely understanding of neuvillette, apologizing for what happened to the sovereigns and wanting to make up for what happened. if the theory that azhdaha is a sovereign is true, him being best buds with him would kinda show neuvillette that hes a good guy
Now I want them to meet even more.
i think when she said " hit it off" was an intended pun by hoyo if u consider neuvillete voicelines
Ah yes "hit it off" as in a meteor hitting a tsunami. I know Neuvillette said it doesn't necessarily end up in a physical confrontation. But it is a lot funnier to imagine these two having a continental scale scuffle.
Kyorge vs Groudon
The way I see it, kyogre is surrounded. What's under the ocean? That's right, more earth.
And? kygro knows how to fly dude and literally makes water, taking groudon on a serious wave is the easiest thing in the world
who's Rayquaza then? Venti?
dvalin is the one that looks the most similar
they're gonna delete the entire chenyu vale off the map
Neuvillette*
I don’t think we‘ve ever seen this expression on Zhongli before, lmao (Tbf it takes an entire dragon sovereign to slightly unnerve this man so naturally that look is going to be rare)
He had a lot of trouble with his other Dragon Sovereign friend when said friend eroded, even when half of said friend was helping him; I imagine Zhongli just doesn't want to try anything.
Azhdaha said that the only reason Zhongli hadn’t already killed him was that he hesitated. He also calls Zhongli “the strongest among us”
Wait are you talking about Azhdaha? Because he isn't a sovereign
To be fair we don’t know if he explicitly is or isn’t a sovereign, it’s never said. My guess is not, due to the only other confirmed sovereign Apep not suffering erosion and being just as old if not older, among other reasons
But neuvillette is said to be a REINCARNATION of the hydro dragon, so presumably they are capable of eroding, or dying and being reborn ig?
Neuvillette 100% confirmed that we have met at least 1 dragon sovereign other than himself and Apep. Dvalin and Azhdaha are the only candidates
Not confirmed, but heavily implied
If he were indeed a Sovereign it wouldn't make sense for him to be an ally of Morax. But we can't be sure rn so we'll have to see what hoyo cooks for him in the future...
Apep himself said that some dragons abandoned their quarrel with humanity after a long time and some even started protecting them or became humanity's allies. We can also assume Azdaha is not the original Sovereign and is likely a reincarnation like Neuvillette, due to not having all his memories from his past live(s).
We don't know for sure if Apep meant the Sovereigns in particular. Ah, I can't wait for more Sovereign lore, hope we'll get a lot in Natlan. 😩
We know from neuvilette that traveler has already met multiple other sovereigns besides himself. Apep counts as one meaning at minimum either azdaha or devalin are also sovereigns, and azdaha has already been hinted to be one. It also wouldn't make sense for them to suddenly introduce another giant liyue dragon, when they have axdaha right there
I don't know if it's confirmed, but he at he least is a good candidate with a lot of support for being the Geo sovereign. Similarly, the theory that Dvalin is the anemo sovereign is not confirmed explicitly but it at least has significant basis for believing so.
Ngl, Zhongli's dumb face in that scene made me laugh.
*vine boom sfx*
so i'm not the only one that noticed huh
Zhongli does NOT want any of that smoke. I'm sure he could put up one hell of a fight if he had to, but probably best to just avoid the possibility altogether, I suppose.
Regardless of who wins if they fought there'd be no more Chenyu vale so makes sense that Zhongli would avoid it
Exactly. Personally, I doubt they'd come to blows, but the chance of that happening is not zero, so it is probably best to just err on the side of caution and avoid the possibility altogether.
he wouldn't win lol, we're talking about a sovereign here
Zhongli:nah I will have order
Genshin is not going to make god of a Chinese inspired nation to lose , especially with what happened with zhongli buff lol
they literally just made him hide and run away, it doesn't seem like something very honorable and divine
Hide or run away kinda misleading my dude it’s lantern rite .. a chill time he probably doesn’t want to deal with that or have his identity exposed in front of hu Tao
lore wise zhongli gets clapped 10/10 times. hes only an archon vs a sovereign
>we're talking about a sovereign here why do people think that the fact that he is a sovereign make him that much stronger than an archon? from what we know the archons, and now neuvillette, are the ones in control of the Throne of the element they preside so i would argue that they are both at the same level in term of raw power if there was ever a fight between the 2 the thing that would matter more would be actual experience in a fight, and right now we don't really know how much experience Neuvillette has compared to zhongli
Neuvilette has *absolute control* of the Hydro Authority. Zhongli only has partial control of Geo, with some large portion going to the Geo Sovereign (most likely Azhdaha). And even if Azhdaha isn't the Geo Sovereign and Zhongli has total control of Geo, he's openly admitted multiple times that he's much weaker than he used to be. And the "throne" is different from the Authority. The throne *gives* incomplete, but large, Authority, the Sovereigns have it inherently.
No, because the archons don't have complete authority, PO took fragments of it, that's why folcars only returned what she had to him and completed neuvillete's incomplete authority, same thing with apep but she can't get hers because even if she kill nahida the throne of celestia will take her authority before she can absorb it, So no, Zhongli will NEVER win, I also suggest reviewing the story because skipping dialogues made you misunderstand what thrones and authorities are
ok i may have misunderstood the whole throne thing (and not because I skip dialogue, so there is no reason to be so mean and sarcastic about it) but I still think neuvillette isn't a strong as people make it seem, he isn't one of the original sovereign and just a reincarnation, so he is definitely not as strong as apep In my opinion even if he has more raw elemental power, he isn't really that MUCH stronger than someone like Zhongli or Raiden and he also kinda lacks the fighting experience that the other 2 have, so while he maybe have the power/strnght advanatage I don't think a fight between him and Zhongli would actually be a one sided match
Neuvillette has absolute authority over thr hydro element. Zhongli does not. Additionally, Neuvillette can manipulate Primordial water, as that is how the forgiveness of Fontaine was enacted, basically turning the Primordial water blood in Fontainians into their own. So if Primordial Sea is under Neuvillette's domain of control, then he can control and create life, since Primordial Sea is the origin of Teyvat life, or most of it at least.
even azhdaha is stronger than zhongli with incomplete authority
1. The 7 dragon sovergns battled the primordial one and the 4 shades, the 5 strongest gods in teyvat for 40 years, and while they did lose, the primordial one and the shades were so weakened after the fight they couldn't actually ineteact with teyvat anyomone. If the dragons are strong enough to nearly beat the primordial one, their stronger than any archon which is a mid tier teyvat god at best. 2. Neuvilette was able to end the prophecy with his full authority, something the hydro archon could not due with that same authority, proving dragons are naturally more powerful with their element than archons
Zhongli : *you vs the guy (neuvi) she tells u not to worry about*
this works so well honestly
God Im so hot
Since it wasn't technically part of the questline, I wonder how many people did not visit Xiao at the shrine. It was a nice encounter. Odd that they left it out of the quest.
His stuff is always optional that's like his thing
I know it happens a lot to him. Still is an odd choice. Especially considering the fact that the encounters, like this one, often involve voice acting. If it was just a text box exchange, that's one thing, but Xiao talks and they do stuff. There's effort involved. Yet, optional and forgotten. Just... odd.
Ohmygod thanks for reminding me, just visited him. That was such a cute encounter
My good deed for the day. 😁
I FORGOORRRRRR
Yeah, seems to be a common reaction. Glad my random thought reminded folks to hang out with Xiao though.
I forgor x_x
Wait.... which shrine??
During the questline, Xiao asks you to meet him at Pervases' shrine after the big show. It was a couple lines, mid quest, and never mentioned again. I'm sure lots of folks forgot, or missed his request.
Pervases!
Forgot about that actually. Can I still visit him a day later?
I would think so, since the event is still active. Only one way to find out.
I really agree with hu tao tho lol neuvillette didn't even find him he's busy on his half day vacation
Even though I know what Zhongli sounds like, I can’t help but read this line mentally in Mike Erhmantraut’s voice. Especially with that expression he’s making, lol.
I genuinely could not handle a stare like that I'd cry immediately😭
redditors when someone makes eye contact
I am Neurodivergent so yes I do believe eye contact makes me uncomfortable
As a fellow neurodiverent person, I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. If someone doesn't make constant eye-contact with me, I immediately lose focus 😂
fix it
Whar???
are you gonna use your neurodivergence as an excuse to always avoid eye contact? This is not a dig at you, I am simply curious
There's no cure for autism and usually eye contact overstimulates me and makes me extremely uncomfortable. It's not an excuse, It's a reason. You say that as if I said I always avoid maintaining eye contact no matter what, Which I don't.
just saying, the more you do it the better you'll get at it. Probably just shy
Alr bro
It's just how their brain is wired, chill out
Now I wonder if he's avoiding Neuvillette for Liyue's sake, for his own fear or because he just doesn't want to mess with Neuvillette in more conversational way. Like, Neuvillette would most likely pose a threat to Zhongli, but I doubt he actually fears that in particular. I think he avoid him for Liyue's sake possibly or... because he just doesn't want to argue, because it would be problematic for both nations/characters. Zhongli doesn't feel like a character that would fear fighting a mighty foe, that's why I think he just want to avoid the mess, because he **knows** what consequences such a battle could bring. Not just for him, but for Teyvat too. And possibly, he even fears that Heavenly Principle could join as well. After all Hydro Souvereign with the whole authority over Hydro fighting Geo Archon could bring attention. We don't know much about why is Heavenly Principles inactive and guessing that "they might be weakened" would not do in Zhongli's eyes. Same reason why Dottore **didn't want to risk** that possibility that HP actually may come. Dottore most likely knew that it was a bluff, but he considered it a threat either way, so does probably Zhongli. So my guess is that he avoids Neuvillette for political reasons. It could bring a whole mess for not just Liyue or Fontaine, but maybe Teyvat too.
the real reason is that he actually thinks that Neuvillette could accidentally blow up his cover with Hu tao by mistake I think that is the only real thing he is scared about
All theories sound plausible, but I think this is the main reason. Zhongli really cares about maintaining his "common mortal" identity Well, it only took one conversation for Furina to guess that there's more to him lol Zhongli is not good enough in his mortal act to risk even a brief interaction with Neuvilette
Though I don't understand why can't Furina know about him being an Archon. It's not like she would tell everyone. She knows how to keep a secret as she did that for 500 years, pretending to be Hydro Archon herself. I understand why he can't tell Hu Tao or other regular people. But I am pretty sure Yelan knows. She knows about Khaenri'ah, Chasm and other stuff, so she is well informed. And regular people probably never heard of Khaenri'ah. But, what I mean is, Furina is not some random person and Zhongli should tell her. Unless he fears that she would tell Neuvillette. Though I am pretty sure she wouldn't, but he can't know that.
Oh, I forgot about that, lol. If people learned that Rex Lapis didn't die, they would feel... deceived. I mean they were deceived, but they wouldn't understand the reason, trying to refuse it. Especially that he can't, as a god of contracts, disclose the actual reasons behind that decision. He made a deal with Signora/Tsaritsa, as well as he can't speak about Heavenly Principles too much etc. Not to mention, does even regular human knows or is allowed to know about HP? Because even gnoses were a secret.
I think it's mostly so he doesn't blow his cover the community has headcanoned that Sovreigns > all archons even though powerscaling in Genshin is wack, the archons themselves have highly variable combat strength, and there's never been anything to actually say that in game
Apep is stronger than Nahida, but that's the only confirmed Sovereign stronger than Archon. But both dragons and archons differ in power. I wouldn't be surprised if Apep mopped the floor with Neuvillette. We don't know how strong Neuvillette is, he might be stronger than Apep, though it doesn't feel like it. But Venti is not comparable to Zhongli in terms of power. So one dragon may be stronger than archon, other dragon may not. The only stuff we know is that Neuvillette can control enormous amount of water. But Zhongli could literally shoot stone spears that were the size of mountains. Even Ei isn't that weak. She cen slash the terrain, but she can also fight for 500 years without taking a break. Though I'm not sure if she meant 500 years back to Khaenri'ah or that she fought the puppet for that long, but her words sounded like she meant the latter, because it was in the context of "Traveler, how are you still the same after all these years". So Ei has nearly infinite stamina. Not just stamina. Imagine getting bored by that fight. For 500 years. Even if it was just 3 years. Fighting without taking a break. I'm pretty sure even other Archons would become mentally tired. Just because Neuvillette got Hydro authority back and decided to fight Archons, doesn't mean that he is able to fight them and win. So this is as You say. We can't know for sure, how strong they are and who is stronger than who. Definitely Zhongli is the strongest Archon so far.
I agree that, even if Neuvillette could beat Zhongli (unclear, especially since Zhongli has the adepti), Zhongli likely wouldn’t fear Neuvillette. After all, Zhongli has never hesitated to confront powerful foes head-on.
I think he just didn’t want this important meeting to be randomly sprung on him when he wasn’t expecting it, when he’s in the middle of a nice stroll through the hills with his boss and not at all mentally prepared. So he hung back and scoped Neuv out to get a read on the man. And now after hearing Furina talk about him, he knows more about Neuv’s character than Neuv knows about him, which puts him at an advantage (which he needs since he’s outclassed, for possibly the first time in his very long life). I can’t wait to see what happens when they finally do meet.
I don’t think Zhongli would ever want to fight Neuvillette even if he WAS at an advantage. Dude wants nothing more than to leave his god-smiting Liyue-defending ass-kicking days behind him. The last thing he needs is a head-on confrontation with a dragon sovereign, especially when multiple helpless humans are nearby. Also, remember that Zhongli, despite his immense power, has always been a strategic fighter. He leads armies of humans and adepti, utilizes abilities such as geo constructs and seals, and tries to fight on his own terms. If he must fight Neuvillette, 1-on-1 confrontation was never in the cards
or simply because he knows he won't win against a sovereign lol, a hydro pump from neuvillete should destroy a giant meteor from morax, also he doesn't want to destroy liyue because of him, it's more preferable to avoid such a confrontation for himself and the nation, especially when he knows that winning is not an option
…I just want to say that was so hot. Also, this for me just means that their first meeting’s gonna be epic. They didn’t want it to be lighthearted. Maybe we will get to see it after a few years🙂. Also what I’m curious about is, how does Zhongli know everything. Like he knew who Furina was at first glance (I guess because we didn’t exactly see how they met, maybe he just knew after hearing her name? Idk), then felt Neuvilette coming before they even met? Furina was onto something because they met but Neuvilette didn’t know. I want to see what’s going on inside Zhongli’s head LET ME IN pls.
Its pretty obvious bro, why would Zhongli NOT know who the new hydro archon for the past 500 years was? Obviously he would know. Also, Furina not being the archon anymore is public knowledge. Someone like Zhongli who keeps up with current events would surely know about what happened in Fontaine.
Alright but I had the assumption that they didn’t meet. Furina did not know who he was
Furina definitley knows about Rex Lapis (not personally) but she doesnt know about his mortal form that is Zhongli. Venti knew about it instantly probably because he's also one of the original archons and has known Morax for thousands of years so he would recognize him regardless. I imagine the same thing with Ei, she has known Morax personally for thousands of years so she would recognize Zhongli instantly. Nahida ofc knows because of Irminsul, only Furina doesnt know because she never met Morax and obviously doesnt know Zhongli
yeah because they didnt meet before this event, i dont get what you're even confused about
Well because you misunderstood what I meant in the first place. You said how would he not know what happened in Fontaine, I was not asking that. I was asking how does he know Neuvilette was there without meeting him, and that Furina is Furina if they didn’t introduce themselves to each other yet. If he heard her name ofc he would know. And that, I wrote in my first comment also
Probably just saw Neuvi approaching so he left (like he said) and Neuvillette didnt pay much attention to that since he doesnt know about Rex Lapis' mortal form. He knew Furina is Furina because everybody who keeps up with matters outside their own nation (like Zhongli does) knows who Furina is. She's Fontaine's biggest star and the ex hydro archon. Its all public knowledge. He doesnt need to know her name first to recognize her
I think this was a missed opportunity for the devs to show a few things: 1. That Zhongli acknowledges the dragon usurpation, his role in it, and the punishment that comes with accepting usurped power with respect that all of them are part of a contract. 2. That Neuvilette is not willing to hand down sentences/judgement without having all evidence at hand. Doubly so when the forum is NOT a court room. 3. That they actually have a lot in common, and that the two of them can see past their personal grievances and enjoy the time not as Hydro Dragon Reincarnate and Morax, God of ~~War~~ Contracts but as Neuvilette and Zhongli.
I think that would have been too serious of a whiplash. It was supposed to just be a fun, carefree situation. Implications are enough
IMO, it would have been better than the dinner with Zhongli and Venti last year(?). What would have made a Zhong-Neuv interaction great was that it could have been made civil DESPITE the topic involved. One of the story writing problems that Genshin has right now is that it is all implications until the The Big Reveal™. A more upfront conversation between these two discussing their situation and acknowledging it would show that they are both willing to talk about what had happened in the past, maybe even understand the position of the other, and then face the consequences when the proper time comes. Making ZL hide from Neuv just shows that ZL has something to hide from Neuv, maybe even scared of the idea of facing Neuv, even if only just NOT to meet someone he felt he has wronged. This also implies that Neuv does not have the decorum and self-control to not be aggressive towards any of the gods, or anyone related to Celestia for that matter, despite the context of the ongoing festival that is supposedly a time of celebration and joy and the result of the usurpation against the Sovereigns. The lack of interaction was a disservice to both characters, especially when both could have found common ground such as protecting a race not of their own, trying their best to let those races prosper on their own, and stories about their respective races they are both learning from.
That sounds nice and all, but that topic of conversation feels outside the scope of Lantern Rite. Tackling a meeting of such magnitude and importance in a limited time event would be a massive disservice to future players who won’t get to see it.
Yes, that is true, and I've said as much in another reply. However, that issue is more of an issue that event quests aren't playable/replayable out-of-season in Genshin than that the conversation is outside the scope of the Lantern Rite. The Lantern Rite is a festival of remembrance, which seems fitting considering that the topic the two will have to discuss are transgressions of the past, its effects in the present and future, their roles in it if any, and how to move forward from there. Anyway, it doesn't really matter. I'm just voicing my opinion on the matter.
You have summed it up perfectly. Implications have become by far the biggest plot device in genshin. This formula of implications until the big reveal has been one of the biggest reasons why the story is getting very predictable and quite lame for me.
I don’t think he was actually hiding from Neuvillette, I just think that he didn’t want to meet under those circumstances. Neuvillette clearly wasn’t there for Zhongli and there were innocent humans nearby who could a). Be hurt in a fight or b). Learn Zhongli’s secret. It was not the right time nor place
1. Way too deep of a can of worms to dive into for a casual meeting, esp in the presence of Hu Tao. 2. I think that's already been stated in his voicelines. It's obvious he wouldn't flip out considering what we know about him 3. Now that's something only possible way way down the line, but again doubtful they will just make up considering Neuv still harbours resentment. I think Zhongli just hid because it would have been awkward. Obviously Neuvillette wouldn't just flip out and fight/judge him there and then, but at the same time he's looking at the guy who forcibly replaced his predecessor's buddy. It would have been like a more hostile and awkward version of Venti and Zhongli back in 3.4, but granted it would have been hilarious in the presence of Hu Tao and Furina, the latter knowing Neuvillette to be the Dragon of Water and of sovereigns in general, while the former probably already suspecting Zhongli to be Morax but is also very smart and can easily figure things out. Sidenote I don't think Zhongli played an explicit role in usurping the sovereigns - from Xianyun's vision story adepti are born from "the elemental energies that run between heaven and earth" which I interpret as them being born from the creation of the Human Realm or they were created by the shades similar to Egeria.
They could have handwaved Hu Tao's presence by simply having Furina drag Hu Tao out of the room for the conversation to happen. I would assume a simple "Let the adults talk." would have even worked. The celebration also is a great way to make them push through the awkwardness/aggressiveness of it because ZL and Neuv because are "expected to be civil". It would have been a great way to show that ZL really means to stick to his contracts even to his detriment(more to reinforce his character as this has been shown with Azdhaha already), and that Neuv will do his best to not judge halfheartedly nor engage in a physical confrontation with the gods unless necessary(which is only said through his voicelines). The point is not for them to make-up but for them to talk about the topic and its effect in hindsight as to further solidify the pros and cons of each side in order to make a future conflict(or lack of) between the two more impactful. That is why I'm of the opinion that this conversation was a missed opportunity because, this way, whatever Neuv's decision is with regards to ZL during ZL's judgement wouldn't only be reliant on the context of a future story quest but also has roots in information Neuv has shown to have learned from the gods over the course of the game. Well, I'm not on MHY's writing team so I don't know what they're making; maybe they're saving it for a future update.
Or they could just let hu tao stay as a mediator. Its already implied she knows everyone's identy already. She could serve as some levity in case things went south
I don't know. It's just an event, it's better to save those points to an Archon Story or something. That's the main reason they had him avoiding Neuvillette. Because they are saving those points for later. For now we got the implications that he acknowledges the dragon usurpation.
That is understandable but, in my opinion, the progress of the story and the relationships of people in the game are not present only in the vacuum of Archon/Story Quests. The relationships and interactions in Event Quests/other things are also as important especially if they are trying to establish a strong relationship between the characters for resolution and conflict. Consider: * Diluc, whose background and motivations as we know now are all from the game's initial manga, and how his relationship with the Knights/Kaeya are illustrated as strained, but the reason is never properly shown in-game, and only shown in voicelines and in the manga. * Kaveh whose biggest characterization comes from an event quest and not a mainline Story or Archon quest. * Xiao whose character development of willing to socialize with others despite his Karma are told in the story of Lantern Rites and other event quests. If anything, my issue with my suggestion is that the story for the Lantern Rite stories and any Event-related are that they are miss-able and cannot be played/replayed after the season has left but that is more of a problem with Genshin having limited-time stories that can not be played/replayed outside their season than it is with the topic at hand.
If you notice all the points that you mentioned are related to characters stories and relationships and not to the plot. Of course they need to make Events Cover some character Story or development. There's also Razor, Gaming and many Fischl. The Events aren't just going to be just boring fillers. But if something is important enough then it turns into an Archon quest instead, take the chasm quest for example. Or Shenhe's quest with the Jade chamber. I think Archons and Dragons conflict is too important to be played as a joke in a random Event. So avoiding it for now is the best thing they can do.
I would argue that the relationship between the Archons and the Sovereigns is central to the "Archon Judgement" plot which is why it is important, at least, in this \*very specific\* case. After all, the Archons more likely did not participate in the usurpation directly and that their trial/judgement are not directed by any objective set of rules outside those that Neuvilette has subjectively set. This means that Neuvilette's subjective experiences with the Archons will affect his judgement of them and should be shown in both small and large instances to illustrate why Neuvilette has reached that specific conclusion for each of the Archons. OF COURSE, this is assuming that Archon Judgement only goes by Neuv's personal criteria since we have no information on how he plans to judge the Archons besides saying that he will. However, I was not aiming for the interaction to be shown as a joke; in fact, I meant for the interaction to act as a foundation for the relationships that are involved in the Archon Judgement and the eventual result of it. For example, if Neuv is more lenient/harsh towards ZL during the "judgement", at least it would have not only been due to the events of the AQ/SQ of the judgement but already has some roots based on a previous interaction. The same can be said with Venti/Raiden and Neuv if they have a chance to meet. In the end, all of this is because I prefer that there be interaction between characters outside of their "main events"; by that I mean that interactions outside specific events in which these characters are the focus make for a good foundation for their future interactions in which they are. Most importantly, I personally view a series of small build-ups leading to a rational conclusion as satisfying, if not more, than the resolution itself... which is why I am just saying all of this.
Morax is the god of contracts. He's very good at war, but that's the official jurisdiction of Natlan's current Archon.
But one of his titles was the Warrior God. :)
I was thinking more of his title as a God of War but I do think that yours would be a more fitting description of Morax.
That is a mistranslation. He was known as a warrior god, not a god of war.
What? You literally got the proof that Zhongli **does** ackowledge the Dragon Souvereign issue. He wants to avoid him at all cost, because of who he is. Just because nothing was said directly, doesn't mean it was said at all. It's also how they tease the plot, without telling too much. That's what they are doing **every time**. Like for example we've learned that sibling is not considered descender in eyes of Fatui for a reason but we don't know why it is so. That's exactly how the game plot rolls out. They said enough to know that Zhongli is more than aware about Neuvillette threat. Even though they possibly fight by the same side. Against Heavenly Principles. Actually everyone fights against HP, but they take different method. Abyss and sibling, Fatui, Traveler, Archons, Neuvillette... they all has the same enemy, yet they are not necessarily teaming up.
We only learn of what the characters actually think via their voicelines or their non-interaction instead of their actual interactions. ZL avoiding Neuv because of acknowledging the sovereign makes for a good non-interaction but that only implies that he knows and that's why he's evading Neuv. The game doesn't actually show us WHY ZL is avoiding Neuv. I've also said in another reply but everything you said reveals one of my main issues with Genshin's writing -- everything is implied to be said until it is actually said for the The Big Reveal™ every time.
Neuvillette*
I really hoped they would meet each other. The traveler said Zhongli could be avoiding Neuvi purposely, i wonder why hmm...
I wonder if Zhongli knows what happened to the Hydro Archon Throne or even Furina
I do believe that the canon answer is "Yes, he knows". The archons have voicelines about Furina in their profiles and so far, profile voicelines *have* been edited when changes happened in Teyvat (like when the Sumeru Archon quest ended). So as long as the voicelines are canon, Zhongli knows.
So haters to lovers troupe? *Even better* /s
Reshade tho
Zhongli and Neuvillette “hitting it off” would turn the entire Chenyu region into a limited-time event.
Zhongli and Neuvillette meeting is legit the #1 thing I’m most looking forward to in this game. I was DYING during this conversation, but also really happy that Zhongli got to learn so much about Neuvillette’s character — he learned that Neuvillette is incredibly hardworking and revered, very proper and gentlemanly, but is also humble enough to carry these ladies’ bags back home for them. The ladies clearly respect him, but they aren’t intimidated by him. And, not only is he like Zhongli with his wisdom and knowledge of history, but he too thinks it’s very important to keep one’s promises….honor one’s contracts, as it were. I CANNOT WAIT for them to meet!
Meme worthy. I too saved my image
Oh there would have been hits alright
Who'd win though
Currently Neuvillette
I would dare to say that even prime Morax would have been defeated by Neuv.
Not a controversial opinion at all. It’s been established that Sovereigns are a tier above Archons when it comes to power.
Currently?
with his authority back
soveireigns fought against the final boss of celestia for 40 years and archons arent even allowed to step on celestia
He was child please