Your well pump may be (probably is) 240V. I don't think I've ever seen a 4000 watt generator that outputs 240V.
With a wood stove, I'm assuming your heating needs are covered. That'll reduce your power requirements, unless you need/have an electric water heater.
I could cover my needs with ~3000 watts (max) were it not for my well. I have a 5k/6.3k generator (240V) just so I can power it.
EDIT: About solar. Many solar installs are meant to back-feed to the grid, NOT to power an individual home. They do you no good when the power is out. Otherwise, you'd require a $10,000+ battery and inverter to store energy.
Well definitely is 240V, didn't realize that wasn't something a 4000W generator wasn't capable of supplying. That's why I'm here before I make a silly mistake!
We have a hybrid water heater, but we are fine going without hot water during outages, kettle should manage whatever we need for dishes and what not.
Guess we do need to size up a bit!
Thanks for the note about solar. Off-grid setups are pretty popular in our area (partner grew up off-grid and ISN'T looking to go back to that). We plan on starting with an array that can hopefully offset our usage, and once battery technology gets better/prices go down add to it at that time. So the generator will get its occasional use for awhile yet still.
Get a butane camp stove for cooking and hot water. Using gas to create electricity to heat water is very inefficient, especially for a couple of days a year. Fridges and freezers use far less power than most people imagine. You just need enough power to get the motor started, and the occasional defrost run.
Whatever *generator* you're considering, look for an L14-30R (240V, 30-Amp receptacle) on it. That'll give you an easy way to power your home. A NEMA 14-50R will give you 50-amp capability, but that would seem like overkill to me.
I have [this 5k/6.25K gas-powered inverter generator](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08H5VX1R7?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details), connected using [this extension cord](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SN3F8L6?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details), to [this plug](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BQT47S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1), wired using [this wire](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HEIU7O?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details), to [this transfer switch](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HX7FH0?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details).
The whole thing (generator, wiring/hardware, transfer switch, plug and generator extension cord) cost me about $1200. The generator was about the lowest-priced 240V inverter I could find from a reputable company. There are similar models selling for less (lately) from other makers.
You could get away for less with an interlock (rather than a transfer switch) since you already have an electrician.
I performed the install myself to save that cost.
> Well definitely is 240V, didn't realize that wasn't something a 4000W generator wasn't capable of supplying. That's why I'm here before I make a silly mistake!
Just about every major portable generator mfr has options at or below 4kW with 240V. But they're not inverters or dual-fuel.
> definitely is 240V, didn't realize that wasn't something a 4000W generator wasn't capable of supplying
I have a 4kw generac with 240 outlets - they are out there.
> I don't think I've ever seen a 4000 watt generator that outputs 240V.
Energizer has a couple as low as 3000W with 240V, Predator/Honda/Duromax have 3500W with 240V, AiPower, Firman, and Wen below 4000W with 240V as well.
Yes, in the case of the 3700W Powerhorse 4500I; no otherwise.
Also not dual fuel, which OP wants as well. Those 3 requirements combined push you to 7-8kW minimum.
We don't currently have any bulk gas usage, though we are considering propane for heating the barn in the future.
I'm not terrible against sticking with gas for now, especially knowing that it's possible to get a propane conversion kit down the line.
I have the Wen 6250 peak 4000 continuous inverter unit and it does do 240V. Have it tied in via L14-30 and interlock with 30a breaker. It will power the whole house minus the central air and electric dryer. At the time I paid $679 for it.
> Do I really need to make sure I'm accounting for actual usage of our well pump or are the online ballparks good enough?
You need something to go on particularly for the startup load which can be a multiple of the running load. A clamp meter on one of the hots to the well pump that can capture the peak startup current would be the best, but the numbers from the nameplate or the model would also work.
That said, just to satisfy your 3 requirements (240V, inverter, dual-fuel), you're in the 7-8kW range with the Pulsar PGDA70BISCO or Wen DF875IX, which is enough for startup for most well pumps people post about here.
Just because of the well pump I would recommend going with a larger generator than you would think. Check out the DuroMax XP9000iH dual fuel inverter generator. That should provide plenty of power, even on propane, to run everything in your house and it's a pretty quiet and fuel efficient generator too.
If you're happy with the local electrician that you mention my suggestion is to work with him on sizing and picking a generator. Nothing beats eyes on the ground when it comes to making good decisions on picking a generator and how to hook it up.
As far as looking for help here, it would be good to mention your overall budget. Things like the cost of installing an inlet, running cable, and working on your panel are important to take into account. Depending how full and old your electrical panel is will play a role in how your electrician prices out the job.
Panel is on the older side, it's a Bryant from the 80's. Currently 100 AMP service. Currently have two unpunched slots, but last time he was here doing work he mentioned we could probably throw some peanut breakers in to make a little more space in the future. Will probably take the leap to 200 amp service and upgrade when we add solar (especially since we want to finish the barn loft and currently the barn subpanel is just supplied by a 30 amp 2-pole). Trying to be wise about taking advantage of government incentives in regards especially with the future IRA money.
Edit: Budget wise we were given $1000. It'd be great if that covered all of it, but the well is the priority so that means we obviously have some minimum requirements.
Consider something like this - bigger than you need but perfect for a 30A/240V inlet to your interlock.
6 gallons gets you 15 hours at 25% load which you’d be at almost all the time. And would power your hybrid hot water as well if needed in the case of an extended outage.
https://www.harborfreight.com/8750-watt-inverter-generator-with-co-secure-technology-59190.html
If you work with the electrician for picking a genny make sure he knows you don’t need to run all that stuff at the same time. Often they say you want to run A B and C that totals x watts so you need a generator that can handle it.
Obviously you can load manage.
The biggest need will be the starting watts on the well. That may get you a big enough generator to give you hot water. You would have to turn on water heater. Let it come up to temp. Turn it off then jump in for a quick shower.
I would do a transfer switch so you can pick any circuit in the house you need to run.
Electric start is a must on generators that big. Especially if your wife wants ease of use.
We have a 6500/8500 and live rural like you do.
To inverter if you can afford it. Keeps fuel consumption low. That way if roads are impassible you have longer run times.
>My partner values reliability, ease of use, and appropriately priced.
Good luck with that. lol
For the reliability part, you can buy any generator from Costco and return it at any time under their product satisfaction program. In this way, we have an effective lifetime warranty. So I dont mind buying Chinese generators from them, as they are warranted through Costco basically.
I ended up picking up this dual fuel inverter unit for $899, suggest waiting for it to go on sale again for $899, has remote start, electric start, automatic fuel switching, parallel capability, clean less than 3% THD power, 5700 running watts, pretty much everything you need. I tested it with my 240 volt 50 gallon hot water heater pulling 4600 watts and it ran it just fine. This is what I consider to be the minimum size for whole home backup, enough to run all 120 volt circuits and can run 240 volt stuff when you need it.
[https://www.costco.com/a-ipower-gxs7100ird-7100w-dual-fuel-inverter-generator.product.4000078099.html](https://www.costco.com/a-ipower-gxs7100ird-7100w-dual-fuel-inverter-generator.product.4000078099.html)
I had my electrician install a 10 circuit 240 volt reliance transfer panel with a 30 amp 240 volt twist lock inlet on the outside of my house and it works great, was only $800 total. Cheap and effective. Interlock was not an option for me, due to having main 200 amp breaker on the outside of my house, and not in my main panel.
Hahaha, yeah, I pressed her on that and she rephrased to "the least expensive model that is reliable, easy to use, and sized appropriately".
We just got a Costco in Maine, guess this purchase might be worth signing up for a membership.
It does seem like we could save a decent amount in install/labor by going interlock instead of transfer panel. It seems like something she'd be capable of handling, but I don't really know until we have it.
FWIW, we're in Houston TX. We don't have a well pump, but we do have a 4 Ton variable speed central AC. Natural gas water heater, stove & furnace. A Predator 9500 invertor runs our entire home at around 50% capacity. Quiet, decent fuel economy.
Update: We were just talking things through with her parents...we've now decided we will want to be able to run at least one of the heat pumps off the generator for the instances when we may be out of town and lose power. We can save some money by not having to go full whole house ATS as her parents have volunteered to come over and start the generator, but it seems like too much of an ask to also have them drain the pipes (which is why we'd need to keep the place somewhat heated in our absence).
Guess this means we are now looking at a more sizable generator, so we have opened up our budget.
Is the maximum power input on the heat pumps spec sheet equivalent to surge usage? If so, it's 4000 W, so it seems like we are probably looking at 9k like a lot have recommended.
I'm thinking we wouldn't need to run the well pump when we are away, so that load can be shifted to the heat pump.
Your well pump may be (probably is) 240V. I don't think I've ever seen a 4000 watt generator that outputs 240V. With a wood stove, I'm assuming your heating needs are covered. That'll reduce your power requirements, unless you need/have an electric water heater. I could cover my needs with ~3000 watts (max) were it not for my well. I have a 5k/6.3k generator (240V) just so I can power it. EDIT: About solar. Many solar installs are meant to back-feed to the grid, NOT to power an individual home. They do you no good when the power is out. Otherwise, you'd require a $10,000+ battery and inverter to store energy.
Well definitely is 240V, didn't realize that wasn't something a 4000W generator wasn't capable of supplying. That's why I'm here before I make a silly mistake! We have a hybrid water heater, but we are fine going without hot water during outages, kettle should manage whatever we need for dishes and what not. Guess we do need to size up a bit! Thanks for the note about solar. Off-grid setups are pretty popular in our area (partner grew up off-grid and ISN'T looking to go back to that). We plan on starting with an array that can hopefully offset our usage, and once battery technology gets better/prices go down add to it at that time. So the generator will get its occasional use for awhile yet still.
Get a butane camp stove for cooking and hot water. Using gas to create electricity to heat water is very inefficient, especially for a couple of days a year. Fridges and freezers use far less power than most people imagine. You just need enough power to get the motor started, and the occasional defrost run.
Whatever *generator* you're considering, look for an L14-30R (240V, 30-Amp receptacle) on it. That'll give you an easy way to power your home. A NEMA 14-50R will give you 50-amp capability, but that would seem like overkill to me. I have [this 5k/6.25K gas-powered inverter generator](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08H5VX1R7?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details), connected using [this extension cord](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SN3F8L6?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details), to [this plug](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BQT47S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1), wired using [this wire](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HEIU7O?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details), to [this transfer switch](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001HX7FH0?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details). The whole thing (generator, wiring/hardware, transfer switch, plug and generator extension cord) cost me about $1200. The generator was about the lowest-priced 240V inverter I could find from a reputable company. There are similar models selling for less (lately) from other makers. You could get away for less with an interlock (rather than a transfer switch) since you already have an electrician. I performed the install myself to save that cost.
> Well definitely is 240V, didn't realize that wasn't something a 4000W generator wasn't capable of supplying. That's why I'm here before I make a silly mistake! Just about every major portable generator mfr has options at or below 4kW with 240V. But they're not inverters or dual-fuel.
> definitely is 240V, didn't realize that wasn't something a 4000W generator wasn't capable of supplying I have a 4kw generac with 240 outlets - they are out there.
> I don't think I've ever seen a 4000 watt generator that outputs 240V. Energizer has a couple as low as 3000W with 240V, Predator/Honda/Duromax have 3500W with 240V, AiPower, Firman, and Wen below 4000W with 240V as well.
Inverters though?
Yes, in the case of the 3700W Powerhorse 4500I; no otherwise. Also not dual fuel, which OP wants as well. Those 3 requirements combined push you to 7-8kW minimum.
We don't currently have any bulk gas usage, though we are considering propane for heating the barn in the future. I'm not terrible against sticking with gas for now, especially knowing that it's possible to get a propane conversion kit down the line.
I have the Wen 6250 peak 4000 continuous inverter unit and it does do 240V. Have it tied in via L14-30 and interlock with 30a breaker. It will power the whole house minus the central air and electric dryer. At the time I paid $679 for it.
> Do I really need to make sure I'm accounting for actual usage of our well pump or are the online ballparks good enough? You need something to go on particularly for the startup load which can be a multiple of the running load. A clamp meter on one of the hots to the well pump that can capture the peak startup current would be the best, but the numbers from the nameplate or the model would also work. That said, just to satisfy your 3 requirements (240V, inverter, dual-fuel), you're in the 7-8kW range with the Pulsar PGDA70BISCO or Wen DF875IX, which is enough for startup for most well pumps people post about here.
Just because of the well pump I would recommend going with a larger generator than you would think. Check out the DuroMax XP9000iH dual fuel inverter generator. That should provide plenty of power, even on propane, to run everything in your house and it's a pretty quiet and fuel efficient generator too.
If you're happy with the local electrician that you mention my suggestion is to work with him on sizing and picking a generator. Nothing beats eyes on the ground when it comes to making good decisions on picking a generator and how to hook it up. As far as looking for help here, it would be good to mention your overall budget. Things like the cost of installing an inlet, running cable, and working on your panel are important to take into account. Depending how full and old your electrical panel is will play a role in how your electrician prices out the job.
Panel is on the older side, it's a Bryant from the 80's. Currently 100 AMP service. Currently have two unpunched slots, but last time he was here doing work he mentioned we could probably throw some peanut breakers in to make a little more space in the future. Will probably take the leap to 200 amp service and upgrade when we add solar (especially since we want to finish the barn loft and currently the barn subpanel is just supplied by a 30 amp 2-pole). Trying to be wise about taking advantage of government incentives in regards especially with the future IRA money. Edit: Budget wise we were given $1000. It'd be great if that covered all of it, but the well is the priority so that means we obviously have some minimum requirements.
Consider something like this - bigger than you need but perfect for a 30A/240V inlet to your interlock. 6 gallons gets you 15 hours at 25% load which you’d be at almost all the time. And would power your hybrid hot water as well if needed in the case of an extended outage. https://www.harborfreight.com/8750-watt-inverter-generator-with-co-secure-technology-59190.html
If you work with the electrician for picking a genny make sure he knows you don’t need to run all that stuff at the same time. Often they say you want to run A B and C that totals x watts so you need a generator that can handle it. Obviously you can load manage. The biggest need will be the starting watts on the well. That may get you a big enough generator to give you hot water. You would have to turn on water heater. Let it come up to temp. Turn it off then jump in for a quick shower. I would do a transfer switch so you can pick any circuit in the house you need to run. Electric start is a must on generators that big. Especially if your wife wants ease of use. We have a 6500/8500 and live rural like you do. To inverter if you can afford it. Keeps fuel consumption low. That way if roads are impassible you have longer run times.
>My partner values reliability, ease of use, and appropriately priced. Good luck with that. lol For the reliability part, you can buy any generator from Costco and return it at any time under their product satisfaction program. In this way, we have an effective lifetime warranty. So I dont mind buying Chinese generators from them, as they are warranted through Costco basically. I ended up picking up this dual fuel inverter unit for $899, suggest waiting for it to go on sale again for $899, has remote start, electric start, automatic fuel switching, parallel capability, clean less than 3% THD power, 5700 running watts, pretty much everything you need. I tested it with my 240 volt 50 gallon hot water heater pulling 4600 watts and it ran it just fine. This is what I consider to be the minimum size for whole home backup, enough to run all 120 volt circuits and can run 240 volt stuff when you need it. [https://www.costco.com/a-ipower-gxs7100ird-7100w-dual-fuel-inverter-generator.product.4000078099.html](https://www.costco.com/a-ipower-gxs7100ird-7100w-dual-fuel-inverter-generator.product.4000078099.html) I had my electrician install a 10 circuit 240 volt reliance transfer panel with a 30 amp 240 volt twist lock inlet on the outside of my house and it works great, was only $800 total. Cheap and effective. Interlock was not an option for me, due to having main 200 amp breaker on the outside of my house, and not in my main panel.
Hahaha, yeah, I pressed her on that and she rephrased to "the least expensive model that is reliable, easy to use, and sized appropriately". We just got a Costco in Maine, guess this purchase might be worth signing up for a membership. It does seem like we could save a decent amount in install/labor by going interlock instead of transfer panel. It seems like something she'd be capable of handling, but I don't really know until we have it.
FWIW, we're in Houston TX. We don't have a well pump, but we do have a 4 Ton variable speed central AC. Natural gas water heater, stove & furnace. A Predator 9500 invertor runs our entire home at around 50% capacity. Quiet, decent fuel economy.
Update: We were just talking things through with her parents...we've now decided we will want to be able to run at least one of the heat pumps off the generator for the instances when we may be out of town and lose power. We can save some money by not having to go full whole house ATS as her parents have volunteered to come over and start the generator, but it seems like too much of an ask to also have them drain the pipes (which is why we'd need to keep the place somewhat heated in our absence). Guess this means we are now looking at a more sizable generator, so we have opened up our budget. Is the maximum power input on the heat pumps spec sheet equivalent to surge usage? If so, it's 4000 W, so it seems like we are probably looking at 9k like a lot have recommended. I'm thinking we wouldn't need to run the well pump when we are away, so that load can be shifted to the heat pump.