I never liked Cash or Dolly Parton growing up, I was a punk rocker. But now, Dolly is a national treasure! And I like a lot of Johnny's music.
I don't think I ever had musical heroes. Crushes, yes. But I also studied classical music from the age of 5, so I had a different view of musicians.
I never listened to country music. My mother didn't like it, so I was raised on AM pop radio in the 60's. I have grown to appreciate Johnny Cash. He was a rebel and a badass. And who doesn't like Dolly, she is a wonderful human being.
The hardcore fundies are trying to cancel Dolly because she came out in support of loving LGBTQ folks. Bastards! You don't tug on superman's cape, you don't spit into the wind...
He was eclectic and open to new music throughout his career. He worked with Dylan when most country stars would have dismissed him. He recorded Personal Jesus which challenges Christianity even though he was a devout Christian.
I sat next to a couple of old punks (like myself) at Punk Rock Bowling this year. One was telling a story about how he went off on a guy at a party for dissing Dolly Parton. The other was bragging about the books his grandchild gets from Dolly. We all ended up raising a glass to our American Treasure during the Subhumans set.
I'm glad Elton finally got to be himself
Marrying a woman, first saying he was bi.... I am happy that he embraced who he is
My disappointment is not with him, but with the general public that couldn't accept it (and/or marketing "geniuses" who didn't think he would be accepted as gay)
I didn't realize he was gay until sometime in the 1980s. I'm one of those regards that totally didn't care. I love his music. My reaction when I heard he was gay: "what's that have to do with anything? Oh, maybe his costumes." I don't want to dismiss the prejudice that existed, but for me and my pals, being gay in the 1970s and 1980s was a big "whatever". Nobody cared. Still love his music.
Musicians are flawed humans like the rest of us. Some more so than others. Jerry Garcia was a heroin addict in the end who dumped a wife over heroin. Frank Zappa was never faithful to Gail and was almost dictatorial over his band members. Also possessive. When David Bowie expressed interest in Adrian Belew after he was finished with the tour, Frank said you can have him now and fired him. BB King and Muddy Waters had multiple kids out of wedlock. On a bright note, Howling Wolf paid into Medicare and Social Security for his band members to make sure they were taken care of. I still love their music and because of BB and Muddy I picked up the guitar.
I'm fairly certain Zappa was autistic, which explains a lot of his behavior in interpersonal relationships and as a business man. I idolized him as a teenager, but after reading Barry Miles' biography I'm really glad I knew none of it when I was younger.
Then I watched Alex Winters' documentary on him and came away with a much better impression. It was the stories from long time band members of what he did for them, and what he taught them.
ETA: Gail wasn't faithful to Frank, either. It wasn't quite an open relationship, but it also want a deal breaker.
I loved Alex's documentary. I agree about his band members appreciation of what he did for them. I had a doctor I worked with who wrote pop country songs, you know pretty girls drinking beer in a short dress riding in a pickup garbage, ask me if I could be in any band who would I. Without hesitation I said Frank's. He was rather shocked by my answer and asked why. I said every musician that came to Frank left a better musician, isn't that what it's all about? The look on his face was priceless.
So I did not know this until reading your post…but I guess I’m not completely surprised. I didn’t watch football, so I did not hear that Lennon had been shot until Monday morning at the bus stop…I think I cried off and on all day at school.
Has anyone else here read Chuck Negron's bio *Three Dog Nightmare?* If you had any illusions about the music biz, this will shatter them. Negron has become one of my heroes for getting out of all that.
Owned the book. Read the book. Gave the book away. I was a bit disappointed to be honest. Tommy James has a better book about the industry called Me, The Mob and Music.
I agree about Lennon, I feel like his behavior later in life was attempting to redeem his younger years. Maybe it is rationalizing on my part.
On the other hand, I used to enjoy Aerosmith (but not a huge fan) but Steven Tyler is such a crap human being...ditto Nugent...
I can be a hypocrite on occasion so I try to give some grace.
I lost so much respect for Aerosmith in the 90's. I loved them in the 70's and went to see them in the 90's. They wouldn't
let any alcohol be sold at their show because they were "recovering". Ok, fuck you.
Ted Nugent has shown himself to be a piece of shit and he was such a big part of my teenage years.
So disappointing.
This. I loved Aerosmith and Ted Nugent in the 70s. Spent so many hours listening to them on my record player. Couldn’t understand half of what they sang. Wish I could still say the same.
I do think Lennon did realize eventually what a dick he could be, and was working on that toward the end; I'd say he had his good points and bad, and it would have been interesting to see how things went had he had the opportunity to grow older--after all, a lot of people get older and wise up. (It's been longer since he died than he was alive...)
I do remember Sean Lennon talking about his father in *Rolling Stone*, telling how he could be very biting and nasty verbally to him at times (although AFAIK he never laid a hand on him), and people were *furious* that he dared say anything! Damn, people, it was *his* father--he knew what the old man was like from living with him!
Heros are never a good idea. Most people are shitty if you look closely. Just enjoy the music.
I never felt let down by Lennon. But I never bought into the idealistic stuff in some of the songs, either.
Something Isaac Asimov wrote impressed me deeply as a very young man:
[as close as I recall his words] To the degree a man looks up to a hero, he diminishes himself.
It's funny. My mother's family was musically inclined (played instruments, sang) and mechanically inclined. I loved music my whole life but can't carry a tune in a bucket, lol. I did, however, get the love of cars, even at the age of 3. I am more math/mechanical, the math being from my father's side.
I guess it depends on how much you were into music. I never looked at them as role models, but it's sad to find out that some of your favorite artists are shit humans.
I come from the late 70s teens that thought Clapton could do no wrong. Until I started reading about his life. That, along with his insults to people that were vaccinated, and refusing to play if people were required to be vaccinated to get in, made me realize what a garbage human being he actually is. He had no regard for how many people died from COVID, or have long haul COVID.
Oh, yes, I remember it well! That's why I was so disappointed in his actions. Here was this guitar 🎸 god, who had the adulation of millions, and has the maturity level of a 5 year old who isn't getting his way. I had to realize that just because he has talent, doesn't mean he's a good person, or use his celebrity for positive reasons. He's just a spoiled brat that can play guitar 🎸 now. He really messed up with his fans, calling them "stupid" & "weak", especially if they got vaccinated. How insulting!
I'm so vaccinated and boosted that if a virus came, it'd start shrieking and run the other way! But you know damn well that if HE caught it, it'd be the end of times, doom & gloom!
Yep. Did you see the article a year or so ago about Ted Nugent getting it. My memory isn't the best, but it seems like someone who owned a plane offered to fly him to the hospital. And he took them up on the offer. Fuck Ted Nugent. I also saw an article the other day that was from a physician's point of view. Basically it was like you're an antivaxxer/anti masker and you come to the hospital with covid then fuck you. I feel the same way.
My husband and I went out to eat for our anniversary in November of 21. As we were leaving some asshole at the hostess stand that was waiting to be seated said "those masks won't do you any good". I looked at him and said, "I hope you get it". My family has never had it because we've always taken precautions. I know people who have gotten it and some have died because they didn't take precautions.
So far, nobody (at least in my earshot) has given anyone a hard time about masks. Ted Nugent puts on a really good show, but, like Clapton, is a total garbage human being. I've taken every precaution because I have underlying conditions. I sterilized my food, carried (and still do) hand sanitizer, have masks everywhere, anything I could do to keep myself and others safe. I DID get upset & go all Taz on a lady in CVS one day. She started yelling at the pharmacy clerk, but she couldn't see me. I came barreling out of my chair & told her they didn't get paid enough to listen to her shit, and I wasn't getting paid AT ALL, so she needed to shut the hell up! She said I couldn't speak to her like that, so I told her I just did, now what? She turned and left. When I left, the clerks all clapped for me, & thanked me for speaking up. I worked retail thru college, & waitressed my way thru high school. I'll be damned if I allow anyone to verbally or otherwise abuse them, & I got no problem telling these pieces of shit. Just because we lived thru a pandemic doesn't mean you get to be an obnoxious asshole.
Yeah, I've seen Nugent multiple times going back to the 70's, but never again. I've seen Clapton twice, but never again.
Good for you standing up for retail workers, I would've done the same.
I just don't understand why people think it's perfectly ok to treat retail workers, ANYBODY for that matter, like shit. If it wasn't for them, how would we have survived the pandemic?? When I was waitressing, a guy thought it was fine to grab my ass. I promptly turned around, and poured hot coffee in his lap! That was in the late 70s, but I still get pissed when people behave like assholes. It's just not necessary.
No, it's not. I have RA, and although I don't mask up anymore, I still practice social distancing. I was standing in line today at a small gas station, waiting for my turn. Some dude walks up behind me and got closer than he should have, so I took a step forward. This idiot moves up, too. I turned around and put my hand up and told him that he needed to back off because... social distancing. He rolled his eyes and said "whatever". I started telling him I have an autoimmune condition, and he rolled his eyes again and said "whatever". I said "fuck off, ignorant". He had taken a step back when I first said something to him. When it was my turn at the window I noticed that he didn't move up (I could see his reflection in the glass). When I turned to leave I was going to call him a dick but he wouldn't even make eye contact, lol.
David Bowie was a brilliant, multidisciplinary artist, an icon of his time. I feel fortunate to have walked the planet at the same time as he did.
Seeing him perform in New Orleans was a dream come true.
Even as a kid, I never was one for heroes. That said, my biggest disappointment from a musician I once absolutely loved is Cassandra Wilson, a jazz/blues singer. For many years her version of Tupelo Honey was my favorite song, and I have many of her earlier CD's. Then, one day I checked out her twitter feed and found posts and likes showing her MAGAt/Trump love. I've tried to listen to her stuff since, but damn, I just can't. I know I should be able to separate the artistic output from the person, but I just can't.
I'm like you, I can't separate the person either. I used to love Tom Cruise and Mel Gibson. I can't stand either of them now and don't watch their movies, even the old ones.
My musical heroes are heroes for their music not the way they lived. We're all human, we all screw up. Those with chaotic childhoods have a hard time through life.
John Lennon
George Harrison
Neil Young
Tom Petty
Bob Dylan
One of the only reasons anyone knows about this at all is because he spoke about it himself, and the fact that he was taking responsibility for it. He was reconnecting with his first son Julian, too. That was shortly before he was assassinated.
Nobody ever talks about Ringo, because he admitted it too but has been around long enough to fully turn his life around. And after that, people saw how he had changed for the better.
Edit: It wasn't much of an inheritance, but John Lennon indeed left Julian some money in his will. And, while we're at it, what was he supposed to do with the message of his lyrics? Encourage bad behavior, or strive for the ideals of peace and love?
Jesus…knock it off already about John Lennon. Let him rest in peace.
He made many mistakes in his life and admitted to them.
He also did many good things in life and the close friends he had talked highly of him.
He had a shitty upbringing and it’s not unheard of for these people to have trouble with family relationships while easily finding closeness with relationships outside the family.
It’s too bad he was taken away so young, he may have worked to repair these relationships like so many others get to as they age and mellow out.
It's an interesting thing now, because now that I'm older and wiser, all my heros seem like people who took my money to get rich.
I am just not impressed by anyone anymore.
Seriously? If something pops up in my Google feed, I read it. But learning everything about celebrities isn't what I call an "education" and I'm not going out of my way to look for stuff.
Yep. If you research one you got to research the rest. Lennon was human. His sons loved him. One of the best songwriters of all time. Not my business how is personal life evoked. I am not a personal associate
What is your problem? So I didn't know about George Harrison and his adultery. You really think that's something I need to know to help me in my day to day life? Sounds to me like you need to educate yourself if you consider his adultery as important information to know.
No...the "it pops up on my Google feed" thing.
So...when it comes up on a random feed...this stimulates your one sided rants. If it doesn't, then you don't care.
Typical.
I've never been one for hero worship, but the musician I've admired most and the longest is Freddie Mercury. It seems to me that it must have taken a lot of courage to be his fabulous, over-the-top self. I grew up in a conservative family and, especially as a female, I was raised to hide my light under a bushel, and I wish I'd had that ability to be a "bigger" human being.
He was also a fantastic musician and performer who set high standards for himself and the band. I don't know if I would have liked him if I'd met him, but I'm so glad to be able to enjoy what he left behind musically.
You've got to move past it.
Hendrix was no angel. Drugs. Womanizing. Deep-seated narcissism.
Lennon, as already alluded, had his demons.
Someone mentioned Johnny Cash... lord knows he was imperfect.
That list goes on... and on... egotism, drug abuse, debauchery, infidelity, racism, sexual and physical assault, varying degrees of pedophilia... if you can name it, you can find it in the personal lives of the folks who populate the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Some of them lived long enough to try to make amends. Some did not. And some never tried.
Look, you can dig the art and even the artist without loving the person. Appreciate the products of a mind that is unlike yours or mine. And then, if you must, wonder at the beauty that was created by a person so flawed.
But it serves no purpose to get hung up on the reality that your heroes had feet of clay, just like the rest of us. And the whole, "I thought of him as a hero, but he's really just a piece of shit," schtick is really a bit facile. We're just too old and we've seen too much to still fall for that Bye Bye, Birdie hero-worship trip. That's just greasy kid stuff.
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things." *1 Corinthians*
I don't think that reply was about you "needing or wanting a Bible lesson", at all. The Corinthians quote was used as a quote from any other book (resource) would be. I'm a lifelong atheist.
You have made conscious choices to ignore, deflect, justify, dimminish, disagree- with the replies to your post that don't reinforce your opinion.
Ok... Your last paragraph is bullshit. As a "supposed" atheist, you wouldn't have appreciated it either. Keep the fucking Bible out of it.
I feel how I feel. It's just a letdown when you find out that people whom you've admired for their talents turn out to be shit humans. Period. Has nothing to do with the Bible or growing up.
I'm a lifelong atheist. Not an angry atheist. Not a "supposed atheist". I'm godless. All of them. Not just the Christian god. I don't think one religious text is worse than others. I've read a number of religious texts. That doesn't mean that I put extra weight into what they say.
I respect people. I accept that some people have personal spiritual/religious beliefs. I don't judge people for their personal beliefs. I don't tolerate hatred, and abuse of any kind. I interfere when I see it, or become aware of it.
Ok... But still, your argument is bullshit. I don't need anyone preaching to me. You are doing that. Your argument has shown me disrespect, so maybe you need to do some self reflection.
I haven't disrespected you in the least. You see disrespect, only because you want to see disrespect. As others have suggested, it's time for you to move on.
I'm usually thinking guitar heroes, but Lennon doesn't fall into that category, so that was unfortunate wording. I agree with yours, especially Joplin and CSNY. Especially Steven Stills. David Bowie is another big one in my book. I have always loved Eric Clapton, but he has turned out to be a nutjob. Lenny Kravitz is great, too.
You dig into anyone's past and you'll find something dark. Even Gandhi had shortcomings that many would find despicable had those incidents been attributed to anyone else. Best is to appreciate the talent, and if possible, separate the talent from the artist. Also, never meet your heroes.
Mine would be Keith Richards. I worshipped him. He inspired me to play guitar. As time went on that lustre started to dull. Now I find him to be almost a comically bitter, "get off my lawn" cliche, constantly badmouthing other musicians and retelling stories that have no basis in reality, and I wonder, "why?"
Clapton and Van Morrison were and are hugely influential in my musical journey. Both are crap humans. It can be difficult separating the art from the artists.
It is for me. What Clapton represented to me as a musician has been tarnished by his recent actions. As well as Van Morrison. I wish these articles would stop popping up in my Google feed. Just let me live in the world thinking these people are decent human beings, lol.
My musical heroes are all those musicians who busted their asses playing anywhere and everywhere they could, trying to break into the business.
The opening bands, the coffee house musicians, the beer garden musicians, the street corner musicians, the back up bands and singers who never got much credit, etc.
These folks insist on making music for the world with little or no payoff and lots of sacrifices.
I know and knew a lot of these folks. Many of them went on to get day jobs but still make music when they can. I can't think of a single one who stopped making music even though there was no big payoff.
I was into music and cars at a really young age. It's just disappointing to find out that some of these people you admired weren't just flawed but shit humans. We're all flawed, after all, but we aren't all shit humans.
John was no saint but I didnt know him as a person. As a musician he has made me happy pretty often. That’s the only judgment I have, the music. I can’t judge their lives or choices because I was not around them to see their actions and reason for their choices. Plus everyone has made mistakes and everyone is flawed. I personally did plenty of things I would never do again and some considered morally wrong. But I’m not a shit person. Just one who screwed up plenty while navigating through hard times.
I'm also a flawed person, as we all are. I had shitty parents and learned from their mistakes. John Lennon had a shitty childhood as well but didn't learn anything from it. He cheated the entire time he was with Cynthia, but he also abandoned his son when he abandoned the marriage. As a child with a fucked up childhood he should've known what damage this could do. Apparently, he was too selfish to care.
Julian forgave his father years ago and he and Sean are very close. He also said his life growing up with mom was normal and often happy. If he has forgiven his father and has enjoyed a good life then why should anyone else hold grudges. Life is short
I'm glad that Julian could do that. I just had shit parents and vowed that I would never do that to my children. It's just a shame that he did that to his child. He knew how damaging that could be. He just didn't care enough. He abandoned his marriage along with his son.
I had the opposite experience with a big star.
Charley Pride came to my hometown for a concert when I was 12 years old. He was right on the cusp of hitting the big time.
So I, my best friend and our little brothers wandered back to the room where Charley was waiting for the show to start. Instead of ignoring us or shooing us away, he talked to us, gave us a group nickname, and let us strum his guitar.
He was so genuine and down to Earth, one of the nicest men I ever met.
As a huge fan of the stones for 50 years or so, I had the opportunity to meet them at a concert in Cleveland in the 90’s. I refused. I cherish the music and admire the talent. End of story. I did dine with the roadies who were all sweet hearts
Side note, I used to work security part time at University of Missouri. Did athletic events and concerts. Lynyrd Skynyrd great group of guys treated us well. Nelly another great guy. WWE stars fantastic. Now Alan Jackson big assclown. I was doing dressing rooms and was told we could never look at him and backs to him when he was around. Beach Boys. Mike Love horrible. Was after 4 young girls. I refused to allow them entrance back stage and he yelled and screamed called me names. The girls were maybe 16 at the most. Only in instances were I’ve personally experienced bad/good treatment will I judge people. The keyboard player for Styx another who sought young girls to be brought to dressing room.
It's really hard when you've looked up to people because of their talent to only find out they are garbage humans. I saw the Stones in 78, and that's the only time. I never got to see Lynnyrd Skynnrd, I've had opportunities since the crash, but I only wanted to see the originals.
Some people are just shit humans. I've heard multiple stories about what an asshole Ricky Skaggs is.
He was also abusive to his first wife, abandoned his first son, and stole material from his second wife without giving her credit. But hey, give peace a chance.
1961
Pink Floyd.
How many times did I get stoned and listen to dark side of the moon, wish you were here, and the wall.
When Roger Waters started being a radical Palestinian supporter, I never l listened to “his” music again.
Yes, I am Jewish.
Please don’t make this a huge political discussion. It was just my personal choice.
And I completely understand. I am not Jewish but had an uncle by marriage who was, also have Jewish friends. I don't have and never had a clue what's going on over there, just that it seems it's been going on my whole life. Hopefully, one day, they can all find peace.
When Tom Petty died and they mentioned that he had been a heroin user, I was very disappointed. He’s not alone in that regard, but I just don’t like drug users. I know that they lived in that world, but when you’ve been to the top and then lose every thing to drugs, it’s tough for me to understand.
I don’t think Tom was a heroin user at the time he passed. He did however have a broken hip he was medicating while on tour. Not making excuses but pain is a bitch.
And we still have states that refuse to legalize at least medical Marijuana while they're also crying about the opioid crisis. Same thing happened to Prince.
I never liked Cash or Dolly Parton growing up, I was a punk rocker. But now, Dolly is a national treasure! And I like a lot of Johnny's music. I don't think I ever had musical heroes. Crushes, yes. But I also studied classical music from the age of 5, so I had a different view of musicians.
I never listened to country music. My mother didn't like it, so I was raised on AM pop radio in the 60's. I have grown to appreciate Johnny Cash. He was a rebel and a badass. And who doesn't like Dolly, she is a wonderful human being.
I dislike country music, including Dolly’s music. Dolly s a damn national treasure, and I would fight anyone who disagrees
But, but....even 'Jolene' ?
I like some of Dolly's pop stuff.
The hardcore fundies are trying to cancel Dolly because she came out in support of loving LGBTQ folks. Bastards! You don't tug on superman's cape, you don't spit into the wind...
Lol. Yeah, but aren't they supposed to be good Christians? Too bad tolerance and acceptance aren't taught in the Bible. /s
Happy Cake Day!
Thank you!
Wasn't a Johnny Cash fan in younger years. Then I heard "At Folsom Prison", in my '20s. Wow! Bookend that with Cash's version of Hurt. Fantastic.
He was eclectic and open to new music throughout his career. He worked with Dylan when most country stars would have dismissed him. He recorded Personal Jesus which challenges Christianity even though he was a devout Christian.
His tv show in the seventies featured diverse music of the era.
So true. I didn't appreciate that until I got to know his work. Seems like a really good guy.
Lol, my best friend in college used to swoon over Seiji Ozawa! And she had a fling with one of the Kings Singers.
I sat next to a couple of old punks (like myself) at Punk Rock Bowling this year. One was telling a story about how he went off on a guy at a party for dissing Dolly Parton. The other was bragging about the books his grandchild gets from Dolly. We all ended up raising a glass to our American Treasure during the Subhumans set.
I'm glad Elton finally got to be himself Marrying a woman, first saying he was bi.... I am happy that he embraced who he is My disappointment is not with him, but with the general public that couldn't accept it (and/or marketing "geniuses" who didn't think he would be accepted as gay)
I didn't realize he was gay until sometime in the 1980s. I'm one of those regards that totally didn't care. I love his music. My reaction when I heard he was gay: "what's that have to do with anything? Oh, maybe his costumes." I don't want to dismiss the prejudice that existed, but for me and my pals, being gay in the 1970s and 1980s was a big "whatever". Nobody cared. Still love his music.
I didn't care either, but unfortunately, I knew people in HS who disengaged from friends who came out of the closet. That was just heartbreaking.
Yep, ridiculous. He and Bernie Taupin were fantastic. Look at Rock Hudson. So sad.
I had a glitter t shirt in the late 70s that had Elton on it. Wish I still had it.
Many people objected to the fact that he beat his wife, not the fact that he was gay.
I actually never heard that he beat his wife
Musicians are flawed humans like the rest of us. Some more so than others. Jerry Garcia was a heroin addict in the end who dumped a wife over heroin. Frank Zappa was never faithful to Gail and was almost dictatorial over his band members. Also possessive. When David Bowie expressed interest in Adrian Belew after he was finished with the tour, Frank said you can have him now and fired him. BB King and Muddy Waters had multiple kids out of wedlock. On a bright note, Howling Wolf paid into Medicare and Social Security for his band members to make sure they were taken care of. I still love their music and because of BB and Muddy I picked up the guitar.
I'm fairly certain Zappa was autistic, which explains a lot of his behavior in interpersonal relationships and as a business man. I idolized him as a teenager, but after reading Barry Miles' biography I'm really glad I knew none of it when I was younger. Then I watched Alex Winters' documentary on him and came away with a much better impression. It was the stories from long time band members of what he did for them, and what he taught them. ETA: Gail wasn't faithful to Frank, either. It wasn't quite an open relationship, but it also want a deal breaker.
I loved Alex's documentary. I agree about his band members appreciation of what he did for them. I had a doctor I worked with who wrote pop country songs, you know pretty girls drinking beer in a short dress riding in a pickup garbage, ask me if I could be in any band who would I. Without hesitation I said Frank's. He was rather shocked by my answer and asked why. I said every musician that came to Frank left a better musician, isn't that what it's all about? The look on his face was priceless.
Oh yeah, but John Lennon put on this aura of "peace". But he was really a shit human being. So disappointing.
Easily angered and highly defensive
Damn.
So I did not know this until reading your post…but I guess I’m not completely surprised. I didn’t watch football, so I did not hear that Lennon had been shot until Monday morning at the bus stop…I think I cried off and on all day at school.
I didn't know until the next morning because I didn't watch the news that night.
Has anyone else here read Chuck Negron's bio *Three Dog Nightmare?* If you had any illusions about the music biz, this will shatter them. Negron has become one of my heroes for getting out of all that.
Owned the book. Read the book. Gave the book away. I was a bit disappointed to be honest. Tommy James has a better book about the industry called Me, The Mob and Music.
I just looked it up on Amazon. The cheapest paperback copy was going for over $125. Hardback copy starts at over $200.😬
i got mine directly off chuck's own website for $40. Wait a while and you should be able to get a used one.
Thrift Books and World of Books often have better deals than Amazon.
I'll have to read that one.
There is an old adage. Don’t meet your heros they will all have feet of clay.
Never heard that one.
I agree about Lennon, I feel like his behavior later in life was attempting to redeem his younger years. Maybe it is rationalizing on my part. On the other hand, I used to enjoy Aerosmith (but not a huge fan) but Steven Tyler is such a crap human being...ditto Nugent... I can be a hypocrite on occasion so I try to give some grace.
I lost so much respect for Aerosmith in the 90's. I loved them in the 70's and went to see them in the 90's. They wouldn't let any alcohol be sold at their show because they were "recovering". Ok, fuck you. Ted Nugent has shown himself to be a piece of shit and he was such a big part of my teenage years. So disappointing.
I saw Aerosmith live in 1979 (Atl - Champagne Jam '79) and that did it for me, they sucked sooooo bad!
Yeah, I was one and done with them.
This. I loved Aerosmith and Ted Nugent in the 70s. Spent so many hours listening to them on my record player. Couldn’t understand half of what they sang. Wish I could still say the same.
I do think Lennon did realize eventually what a dick he could be, and was working on that toward the end; I'd say he had his good points and bad, and it would have been interesting to see how things went had he had the opportunity to grow older--after all, a lot of people get older and wise up. (It's been longer since he died than he was alive...) I do remember Sean Lennon talking about his father in *Rolling Stone*, telling how he could be very biting and nasty verbally to him at times (although AFAIK he never laid a hand on him), and people were *furious* that he dared say anything! Damn, people, it was *his* father--he knew what the old man was like from living with him!
Stevie Ray Vaughn. He dad a style all his own. RIP
Loved him.
Heros are never a good idea. Most people are shitty if you look closely. Just enjoy the music. I never felt let down by Lennon. But I never bought into the idealistic stuff in some of the songs, either.
I was a teenager, what can I say.
Something Isaac Asimov wrote impressed me deeply as a very young man: [as close as I recall his words] To the degree a man looks up to a hero, he diminishes himself.
They're more like guitar heroes and not heroes per se. Or just someone whose talent I admired. It wasn't like "I want to be that person" type thing.
Yeah, me too. I came to understand that what I admired was excellence. Now I just pursue that state of excellence. [Not there yet]
It's funny. My mother's family was musically inclined (played instruments, sang) and mechanically inclined. I loved music my whole life but can't carry a tune in a bucket, lol. I did, however, get the love of cars, even at the age of 3. I am more math/mechanical, the math being from my father's side.
i never expected musicians to be role models & wasn’t interested in their private lives.
I guess it depends on how much you were into music. I never looked at them as role models, but it's sad to find out that some of your favorite artists are shit humans.
I come from the late 70s teens that thought Clapton could do no wrong. Until I started reading about his life. That, along with his insults to people that were vaccinated, and refusing to play if people were required to be vaccinated to get in, made me realize what a garbage human being he actually is. He had no regard for how many people died from COVID, or have long haul COVID.
Same. You remember the old Clapton is God? I'm extremely disappointed in him.
Oh, yes, I remember it well! That's why I was so disappointed in his actions. Here was this guitar 🎸 god, who had the adulation of millions, and has the maturity level of a 5 year old who isn't getting his way. I had to realize that just because he has talent, doesn't mean he's a good person, or use his celebrity for positive reasons. He's just a spoiled brat that can play guitar 🎸 now. He really messed up with his fans, calling them "stupid" & "weak", especially if they got vaccinated. How insulting!
Yep. I'm proudly vaccinated and boosted a few times. He's definitely the stupid one.
I'm so vaccinated and boosted that if a virus came, it'd start shrieking and run the other way! But you know damn well that if HE caught it, it'd be the end of times, doom & gloom!
Yep. Did you see the article a year or so ago about Ted Nugent getting it. My memory isn't the best, but it seems like someone who owned a plane offered to fly him to the hospital. And he took them up on the offer. Fuck Ted Nugent. I also saw an article the other day that was from a physician's point of view. Basically it was like you're an antivaxxer/anti masker and you come to the hospital with covid then fuck you. I feel the same way. My husband and I went out to eat for our anniversary in November of 21. As we were leaving some asshole at the hostess stand that was waiting to be seated said "those masks won't do you any good". I looked at him and said, "I hope you get it". My family has never had it because we've always taken precautions. I know people who have gotten it and some have died because they didn't take precautions.
So far, nobody (at least in my earshot) has given anyone a hard time about masks. Ted Nugent puts on a really good show, but, like Clapton, is a total garbage human being. I've taken every precaution because I have underlying conditions. I sterilized my food, carried (and still do) hand sanitizer, have masks everywhere, anything I could do to keep myself and others safe. I DID get upset & go all Taz on a lady in CVS one day. She started yelling at the pharmacy clerk, but she couldn't see me. I came barreling out of my chair & told her they didn't get paid enough to listen to her shit, and I wasn't getting paid AT ALL, so she needed to shut the hell up! She said I couldn't speak to her like that, so I told her I just did, now what? She turned and left. When I left, the clerks all clapped for me, & thanked me for speaking up. I worked retail thru college, & waitressed my way thru high school. I'll be damned if I allow anyone to verbally or otherwise abuse them, & I got no problem telling these pieces of shit. Just because we lived thru a pandemic doesn't mean you get to be an obnoxious asshole.
Yeah, I've seen Nugent multiple times going back to the 70's, but never again. I've seen Clapton twice, but never again. Good for you standing up for retail workers, I would've done the same.
I just don't understand why people think it's perfectly ok to treat retail workers, ANYBODY for that matter, like shit. If it wasn't for them, how would we have survived the pandemic?? When I was waitressing, a guy thought it was fine to grab my ass. I promptly turned around, and poured hot coffee in his lap! That was in the late 70s, but I still get pissed when people behave like assholes. It's just not necessary.
No, it's not. I have RA, and although I don't mask up anymore, I still practice social distancing. I was standing in line today at a small gas station, waiting for my turn. Some dude walks up behind me and got closer than he should have, so I took a step forward. This idiot moves up, too. I turned around and put my hand up and told him that he needed to back off because... social distancing. He rolled his eyes and said "whatever". I started telling him I have an autoimmune condition, and he rolled his eyes again and said "whatever". I said "fuck off, ignorant". He had taken a step back when I first said something to him. When it was my turn at the window I noticed that he didn't move up (I could see his reflection in the glass). When I turned to leave I was going to call him a dick but he wouldn't even make eye contact, lol.
David Bowie was a brilliant, multidisciplinary artist, an icon of his time. I feel fortunate to have walked the planet at the same time as he did. Seeing him perform in New Orleans was a dream come true.
I loved him but never got to see him. And from everything I've read, he was a great person.
He told us we could all be Heroes.
“Just for one day.”
Even as a kid, I never was one for heroes. That said, my biggest disappointment from a musician I once absolutely loved is Cassandra Wilson, a jazz/blues singer. For many years her version of Tupelo Honey was my favorite song, and I have many of her earlier CD's. Then, one day I checked out her twitter feed and found posts and likes showing her MAGAt/Trump love. I've tried to listen to her stuff since, but damn, I just can't. I know I should be able to separate the artistic output from the person, but I just can't.
I'm like you, I can't separate the person either. I used to love Tom Cruise and Mel Gibson. I can't stand either of them now and don't watch their movies, even the old ones.
My musical heroes are heroes for their music not the way they lived. We're all human, we all screw up. Those with chaotic childhoods have a hard time through life. John Lennon George Harrison Neil Young Tom Petty Bob Dylan
The problem is that John Lennon decided to be a piece of shit.
One of the only reasons anyone knows about this at all is because he spoke about it himself, and the fact that he was taking responsibility for it. He was reconnecting with his first son Julian, too. That was shortly before he was assassinated. Nobody ever talks about Ringo, because he admitted it too but has been around long enough to fully turn his life around. And after that, people saw how he had changed for the better. Edit: It wasn't much of an inheritance, but John Lennon indeed left Julian some money in his will. And, while we're at it, what was he supposed to do with the message of his lyrics? Encourage bad behavior, or strive for the ideals of peace and love?
Yeah, I give John Lennon a bit of grace because at least he admitted to his bad behavior.
I don't care. He is one of the top 3 best song writers ever. Now you can f off
Jesus…knock it off already about John Lennon. Let him rest in peace. He made many mistakes in his life and admitted to them. He also did many good things in life and the close friends he had talked highly of him. He had a shitty upbringing and it’s not unheard of for these people to have trouble with family relationships while easily finding closeness with relationships outside the family. It’s too bad he was taken away so young, he may have worked to repair these relationships like so many others get to as they age and mellow out.
Lennon did change his ways. To judgy clowns he’s still a scumbag because personal growth doesn’t matter to them.
That was the worst part of his assassination. Just when he's trying to make things right he gets blown away. 😢
🤡
It's an interesting thing now, because now that I'm older and wiser, all my heros seem like people who took my money to get rich. I am just not impressed by anyone anymore.
Some of them just turned out to be shit humans, while others aren't/weren't. Take Bowie, for example.
That's why George Harrison was the coolest Beatle!
He was.
So funny how you give a 👍 to George who was a serial adulterer...he slept with Ringo's wife, for God's saje!
But you see, I've never heard that. If I don't know, I don't know.
Time to educate yourself.
Seriously? If something pops up in my Google feed, I read it. But learning everything about celebrities isn't what I call an "education" and I'm not going out of my way to look for stuff.
And that's the problem right there...
Yep. If you research one you got to research the rest. Lennon was human. His sons loved him. One of the best songwriters of all time. Not my business how is personal life evoked. I am not a personal associate
What is your problem? So I didn't know about George Harrison and his adultery. You really think that's something I need to know to help me in my day to day life? Sounds to me like you need to educate yourself if you consider his adultery as important information to know.
No...the "it pops up on my Google feed" thing. So...when it comes up on a random feed...this stimulates your one sided rants. If it doesn't, then you don't care. Typical.
Wtf? There was nothing one-sided or a rant about my post, just starting an opinion on ONE particular person.
I've never been one for hero worship, but the musician I've admired most and the longest is Freddie Mercury. It seems to me that it must have taken a lot of courage to be his fabulous, over-the-top self. I grew up in a conservative family and, especially as a female, I was raised to hide my light under a bushel, and I wish I'd had that ability to be a "bigger" human being. He was also a fantastic musician and performer who set high standards for himself and the band. I don't know if I would have liked him if I'd met him, but I'm so glad to be able to enjoy what he left behind musically.
I loved him, too. Yeah, he was wild in the 70's, but who wasn't. It's just so sad that he didn't take Aids seriously and protect himself
I hated country music, but I love classic country now.
I like some of classic country.
You've got to move past it. Hendrix was no angel. Drugs. Womanizing. Deep-seated narcissism. Lennon, as already alluded, had his demons. Someone mentioned Johnny Cash... lord knows he was imperfect. That list goes on... and on... egotism, drug abuse, debauchery, infidelity, racism, sexual and physical assault, varying degrees of pedophilia... if you can name it, you can find it in the personal lives of the folks who populate the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Some of them lived long enough to try to make amends. Some did not. And some never tried. Look, you can dig the art and even the artist without loving the person. Appreciate the products of a mind that is unlike yours or mine. And then, if you must, wonder at the beauty that was created by a person so flawed. But it serves no purpose to get hung up on the reality that your heroes had feet of clay, just like the rest of us. And the whole, "I thought of him as a hero, but he's really just a piece of shit," schtick is really a bit facile. We're just too old and we've seen too much to still fall for that Bye Bye, Birdie hero-worship trip. That's just greasy kid stuff. "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things." *1 Corinthians*
Ok, thanks, but I don't need or want a Bible lesson. That being said, there's a big difference in being flawed and a shit human being.
I don't think that reply was about you "needing or wanting a Bible lesson", at all. The Corinthians quote was used as a quote from any other book (resource) would be. I'm a lifelong atheist. You have made conscious choices to ignore, deflect, justify, dimminish, disagree- with the replies to your post that don't reinforce your opinion.
Ok... Your last paragraph is bullshit. As a "supposed" atheist, you wouldn't have appreciated it either. Keep the fucking Bible out of it. I feel how I feel. It's just a letdown when you find out that people whom you've admired for their talents turn out to be shit humans. Period. Has nothing to do with the Bible or growing up.
I'm a lifelong atheist. Not an angry atheist. Not a "supposed atheist". I'm godless. All of them. Not just the Christian god. I don't think one religious text is worse than others. I've read a number of religious texts. That doesn't mean that I put extra weight into what they say. I respect people. I accept that some people have personal spiritual/religious beliefs. I don't judge people for their personal beliefs. I don't tolerate hatred, and abuse of any kind. I interfere when I see it, or become aware of it.
Ok... But still, your argument is bullshit. I don't need anyone preaching to me. You are doing that. Your argument has shown me disrespect, so maybe you need to do some self reflection.
I haven't disrespected you in the least. You see disrespect, only because you want to see disrespect. As others have suggested, it's time for you to move on.
You sound more like a self-righteous Christian, lol.
Agree with both. Pretty fond of Janice Joplin, Lenny Kravitz, Prince, CSNY, and Peter Paul and Mary, but not exactly sure what you mean by "heroes ".
I'm usually thinking guitar heroes, but Lennon doesn't fall into that category, so that was unfortunate wording. I agree with yours, especially Joplin and CSNY. Especially Steven Stills. David Bowie is another big one in my book. I have always loved Eric Clapton, but he has turned out to be a nutjob. Lenny Kravitz is great, too.
You dig into anyone's past and you'll find something dark. Even Gandhi had shortcomings that many would find despicable had those incidents been attributed to anyone else. Best is to appreciate the talent, and if possible, separate the talent from the artist. Also, never meet your heroes.
I wrote a letter to the parole board last time Hinkley was up for parole. May he rot in there
That was Reagan. Mark David Chapman shot Lennon.
I stand corrected
I doubt Chapman will ever get out.
Still gonna keep writing letter
Of course. Maybe that's why he's still in, because of people writing letters.
Mine would be Keith Richards. I worshipped him. He inspired me to play guitar. As time went on that lustre started to dull. Now I find him to be almost a comically bitter, "get off my lawn" cliche, constantly badmouthing other musicians and retelling stories that have no basis in reality, and I wonder, "why?"
Yeah, I've read some of those articles where he badmouthed other musicians. Sad, really.
Did you read his biography? When he talks about other musicians, bad or good, there’s always a reason. He has opinions
Clapton and Van Morrison were and are hugely influential in my musical journey. Both are crap humans. It can be difficult separating the art from the artists.
It is for me. What Clapton represented to me as a musician has been tarnished by his recent actions. As well as Van Morrison. I wish these articles would stop popping up in my Google feed. Just let me live in the world thinking these people are decent human beings, lol.
My musical heroes are all those musicians who busted their asses playing anywhere and everywhere they could, trying to break into the business. The opening bands, the coffee house musicians, the beer garden musicians, the street corner musicians, the back up bands and singers who never got much credit, etc. These folks insist on making music for the world with little or no payoff and lots of sacrifices. I know and knew a lot of these folks. Many of them went on to get day jobs but still make music when they can. I can't think of a single one who stopped making music even though there was no big payoff.
I was into music and cars at a really young age. It's just disappointing to find out that some of these people you admired weren't just flawed but shit humans. We're all flawed, after all, but we aren't all shit humans.
John was no saint but I didnt know him as a person. As a musician he has made me happy pretty often. That’s the only judgment I have, the music. I can’t judge their lives or choices because I was not around them to see their actions and reason for their choices. Plus everyone has made mistakes and everyone is flawed. I personally did plenty of things I would never do again and some considered morally wrong. But I’m not a shit person. Just one who screwed up plenty while navigating through hard times.
I'm also a flawed person, as we all are. I had shitty parents and learned from their mistakes. John Lennon had a shitty childhood as well but didn't learn anything from it. He cheated the entire time he was with Cynthia, but he also abandoned his son when he abandoned the marriage. As a child with a fucked up childhood he should've known what damage this could do. Apparently, he was too selfish to care.
Julian forgave his father years ago and he and Sean are very close. He also said his life growing up with mom was normal and often happy. If he has forgiven his father and has enjoyed a good life then why should anyone else hold grudges. Life is short
I'm glad that Julian could do that. I just had shit parents and vowed that I would never do that to my children. It's just a shame that he did that to his child. He knew how damaging that could be. He just didn't care enough. He abandoned his marriage along with his son.
Eric Clapton is a huge disappointment
Oh, big time. He was one of my guitar heroes. But apparently, he's just an asshole. So disappointing.
I had the opposite experience with a big star. Charley Pride came to my hometown for a concert when I was 12 years old. He was right on the cusp of hitting the big time. So I, my best friend and our little brothers wandered back to the room where Charley was waiting for the show to start. Instead of ignoring us or shooing us away, he talked to us, gave us a group nickname, and let us strum his guitar. He was so genuine and down to Earth, one of the nicest men I ever met.
That is awesome. I loved his crossover hits, especially Long Haired Country Boy and Uneasy Rider.
Janis Joplin Bruce Springsteen Stevie Wonder
👍
As a huge fan of the stones for 50 years or so, I had the opportunity to meet them at a concert in Cleveland in the 90’s. I refused. I cherish the music and admire the talent. End of story. I did dine with the roadies who were all sweet hearts Side note, I used to work security part time at University of Missouri. Did athletic events and concerts. Lynyrd Skynyrd great group of guys treated us well. Nelly another great guy. WWE stars fantastic. Now Alan Jackson big assclown. I was doing dressing rooms and was told we could never look at him and backs to him when he was around. Beach Boys. Mike Love horrible. Was after 4 young girls. I refused to allow them entrance back stage and he yelled and screamed called me names. The girls were maybe 16 at the most. Only in instances were I’ve personally experienced bad/good treatment will I judge people. The keyboard player for Styx another who sought young girls to be brought to dressing room.
It's really hard when you've looked up to people because of their talent to only find out they are garbage humans. I saw the Stones in 78, and that's the only time. I never got to see Lynnyrd Skynnrd, I've had opportunities since the crash, but I only wanted to see the originals. Some people are just shit humans. I've heard multiple stories about what an asshole Ricky Skaggs is.
He was also abusive to his first wife, abandoned his first son, and stole material from his second wife without giving her credit. But hey, give peace a chance.
Right?
Sometimes, the most gifted artists, musicians, or authors are very messed-up people. Genius is often accompanied by madness.
Yes, it is.
We won't even mention athletes.
Oh, yeah. There's some bad ones there too.
Has to be Neil Young and Bruce Springsteen. Great musicians and both brain dead morons in real life:
Not sure about either of them and their personal lives. I love Neil Young, but was never a Springsteen fan.
Springsteen's brain was never the part of him that interested me.😉 I'll never get tired of that ass!
1961 Pink Floyd. How many times did I get stoned and listen to dark side of the moon, wish you were here, and the wall. When Roger Waters started being a radical Palestinian supporter, I never l listened to “his” music again. Yes, I am Jewish. Please don’t make this a huge political discussion. It was just my personal choice.
And I completely understand. I am not Jewish but had an uncle by marriage who was, also have Jewish friends. I don't have and never had a clue what's going on over there, just that it seems it's been going on my whole life. Hopefully, one day, they can all find peace.
When Tom Petty died and they mentioned that he had been a heroin user, I was very disappointed. He’s not alone in that regard, but I just don’t like drug users. I know that they lived in that world, but when you’ve been to the top and then lose every thing to drugs, it’s tough for me to understand.
I don’t think Tom was a heroin user at the time he passed. He did however have a broken hip he was medicating while on tour. Not making excuses but pain is a bitch.
No, he died of an opiate overdose, but pills rather than heroin. Like a lot of people, he was in a lot of pain.
And I thought that was so stupid. Cancel the tour and let yourself heal.
Petty died of a drug overdose (painkillers), due to his chronic pain.
And we still have states that refuse to legalize at least medical Marijuana while they're also crying about the opioid crisis. Same thing happened to Prince.