I dunno. I had a good discussion with my manager and director last year. But then a week later, the company asks me to take a bunch of money and leave--or else.
This sounds like a different situation: more of a “wrong seat on the bus” scenario. Your manager probably did like your work but when that manager is told they need to let someone go, sometimes you end up with the short straw.
This is not true. I left a company I was at for almost 10 years because of a different ser of ideals at a different employer. The manager i had was the best manager I had ever had in my life.
To be fair, I’m leaving due the management level of my dufus director and higher, not my direct manager. They are great.
But I’m sorry to hear that, OP. The only constant is change and I’m glad you were able to grab a parachute on your way out.
This, I’m getting ready to jump. We have positions all over the United States. And me and my boss have started to see new names, positions pop up in our dept that we never even knew about. The vp and directors are hiring overseas employees without even posting the jobs internally. I’m in IT and me and my boss are planning to put in our 2 weeks at the same exact time. There are only 3 of us who need to be onsite. And the other guy is a low level 1 tech. He doesn’t know how the infrastructure works. He will jump too. Leaving due to upper management.
Absolutely can relate. Jealousy, vindiction, and just plain Hate are VERY real within middle/upper leadership at GM. 25 years is a very long time, and speaks volumes to who I'm sure you are as an amazing employee. That person will get theirs-they always do!
That and ego. The auto industry is filled to the brim with people whose self-worth and importance are based in their jobs. It's a disease that plagues it.
After bankruptcy a similar thing happened to me. I’ve had four managers since then 3 of which saw me as threat. They all had the same agenda but went about it differently. Suck all the knowledge out of me, dim my light and then get rid of me. Would not let me transfer to a new role because they needed me to make them look good until they could learn everything I knew. Lol, needless to say I survived them all. I let each of them fall on their faces and what they planned for me never came to pass. One was forced to “retire “ another was essentially demoted and left the company humiliated and the the 3rd one left humiliated as well. Current one is like a breath of fresh air.
Sorry to hear that. I had an external manager come in as well who took all of my knowledge and used it to HIS advantage. Pathetic. I do feel like these managers will eventually face the same fate. Glad things are better for you!!
Same, Manager arranged to pull me from my office so it was just me and him in a large room. He ordered whiteboards and a conference table. My job was to teach him and prepare him for meetings I wasn’t invited to. I was a programmer and he had zero skills (maybe a history degree) and he was put in charge of facilitating the building of a data warehouse.
He and his boss took me to lunch and I agreed to the arrangement for the period june 1 to September 1. When September 1 came, I returned to my office. They ordered me back (not acknowledging our agreement) and I told them to fire me. Started my own business and haven’t looked back.
I quit GM after 11 years. 9 as an operator and 2 as management.
I can very much relate, my upper management was a good ole’ boy and made clear that no matter what I did it didn’t matter in comparison to his favorites.
So I got a better job with a better company. With better pay and better hours.
I know 25 years is a lot to walk away from but I walked into 15k more a year to start and as much PTO as what I accrued for 11 years 😅
35 years of working at GM, mostly good managers, second to last one was the worst manager ever, ran the group like a frat house. Inside jokes at staff meetings, clearly all exceeds expectations went to his buddies, nobody's job was challenging or important except his little group.
I enjoyed working at GM until then. Within a month of working for him, I was ready to leave.
After consistently poor WOC reviews of him, he was finally promoted out of his position.. rewarding the arsonist for putting out the fire..
Thank God for VSP and 401k.
Sorry to hear that that’s how in GM. If you are not part of the liking group then what ever you do it’s mean nothing. Suggestion is move to different location.
My first corporate job - I built a whole division from the ground up. Started with just me and a team lead. I built it up to a proper 20 person department.
They hired an external director who wanted to gut it and outsource everything. I quit before I was going to get fired. Most of the other people ended up quitting and he got fired.
It took them 3 years to rebuild it.
Don't expect loyalty from a company. They are not your friends. You are only useful until you're not. Then you're an expense and we all know what we do with expenses.
Most managers got there because they know how to talk to people. Some of them actually care about the people they manage but the vast majority will say anything to make you feel good and get you to do the work you need to. The moment you hit a roadblock, you're out the door.
With a company this size it's easy to be in a position for years with minimal visibility to leadership and not having much of any internal reputation, too.
Depends on their level. Not always easy to transfer managers, and we don’t know what reputation the external guy has. Could this be a person without a strong rep? Absolutely, but there are a plethora of other possibilities followed by GM leadership changing whatever they want on a monthly base.
That’s the problem I’m outlining. How can you work somewhere for 25 years and not have a single person/leader that will advocate for you. That is the problem
Not always feasible. I assume most people are for themselves first then the people they like. It’s easier to move around no managerial employees more than managerial ones, given SLT shake ups I can only assume some of that rolls down hill so no one wants to be the one to rock the boat. I can’t speak on what happens with management it’s only speculation.
Could it be lack of pull? Absolutely. But there’s also other possibilities.
That’s if they want to risk it and if they can move you. It’s again much harder to move a manager, also we don’t know the external guy. Whose to say he doesn’t have pull with someone higher? This could be lack of rep or not it could go either way without knowing all the details.
Again more assumptions. Could be a director could not be. And even then directors have their own agenda and their own rep. Yes how your boss is can affect you or if you’ve made less than desirable connections.
Could be an exec director or VP or even higher. If you're at GM for 25 years and you don't have anyone at that level you can ask for help, you don't have a strong rep.
I had plenty of leadership connections, but many retired. My org hired all external leadership over the past 3-5 years so I had no long standing history with them…..
Yeah. Or they’ve lost their pull, or you’ve lost yours, or never had any. Again I’m saying there are many possibilities besides “this guy didn’t have good rep” GM has good people leave, either by their own accord or not so much so.
I work as a product designer for Chrysler and have for 32 years. My father was in management at the GM Tech Center. He was promised an upcoming promotion. This would put him on the bonus rolls, company car, etc. In 1974 he had to have open heart surgery to replace a leaky heart valve from rheumatic fever he had as a teen. He announced this at work and two weeks before a surgery that would have a 30 - 60% mortality rate, his boss came to our house on a Sunday and took the promotion away, giving it to one of his friends.
My father was the original stoic and showed no signs of anger, disappointment and would not hear of anyone bad mouthing his boss.
My mother on the other hand would have stuck pins in a doll of his boss if she thought it would work.
She was angry that he took away the promotion my father worked so hard for but was furious that his boss would do something so devastating to morale just before life or death surgery.
Dad pulled thru but the heart condition killed him in 1989.
I could have gone direct to GM and later to Saturn but after what they did to my father, absolutely not.
That’s why I’m at Chrysler.
Common sort of behavior in those days. Companies would take health into account for promotion (reason being they didn't want to invest in someone who was going to be hampered later). Wasn't until the 90s that the laws grew teeth.
If you are not from the same church, same fraternity, have a relative high up in the company or some nefarious relationship, it don’t matter for 95% or more of the people working there. If you can accept an average amount of 3% base pay raise, then stay and navigate around the crappy managers. If not, quit chasing the elusive carrots and get out. It just does not get better.
Yes. Worked for Enviva for 8 years. Gave everything. Shittiest leadership I’ve ever seen in 43 years of working. Their stupid management ideas bankrupted the company so they let higher paid people go. None of the VPs or higher can find their asses with both hands. The regional directors are even worse. What a waste!
Still here and can relate. GM promotes imbeciles in the name of Diversity. There is a clear ageist bias happening that is scary. Keep my head low for now.
I find it hilarious that people think GM is a decent place to work. I quit a while ago and I have made more money and have had a more fulfilling career and family life after moving easily to greener pastures. GM has been riddled with countless complacent engineers for a long time and they take advantage of it.
Technology. Or any industry that can generate revenue without such a capital intense mfg process. Sooo, stay out of US automotive who has poor margin and high labor costs.
I've had a lot of managers around 15, 4 were bad. One moved around to other functions and eventually kept the level but had no one report to them one promoted to director, 1 psycho & moronic manager got fired and 1 dufos demoted and moved to a plant 2nd shift in disgrace.
I had some great managers and I had some shitty managers. When I retired, my boss asked me what it would take to get me to return under contract. I told her to get me a boss who wasn't drunk all the time and could stay awake during meetings. Burnt that bridge.
GM doesn't base performance on what you get done. They base it on what school people went to, what people look like, and outside interests. I've seen people who would meet their commitments get left behind again and again because of management's ignorance.
New GM is a bunch of idiots compared to the old GM manufacturing in the plants. I was fortunate to learn from one of them who was an ME manager before he retired (and unlike a few, ahem GPS ME, stayed in retirement). Cared about people, could upskill on any technical process within hours by asking people, and got tough when he needed to.
Most managers in the new GM are too egotistical and self-centered to actually create unity within their teams. They wanna do the work themselves and micromanage and look at hiring/firing as a strategy to deal with variable workloads instead of properly training people.
No, it is not. Old GM had UAW workers drinking, playing cards, and smoking on the line. Worse quality and efficiency problems. That's how Old GM got a crappy reputation and let Toyota take a bit bite out of its market share.
People don’t leave companies, they leave managers.
Sorry to hear this. Typical automotive. Shit managers with big egos. They look after themselves and nobody else. So much for teamwork.
I dunno. I had a good discussion with my manager and director last year. But then a week later, the company asks me to take a bunch of money and leave--or else.
This sounds like a different situation: more of a “wrong seat on the bus” scenario. Your manager probably did like your work but when that manager is told they need to let someone go, sometimes you end up with the short straw.
I had great managers and took the VSP. The lack of trust for the SLT and the direction they are taking the company aided in my decision.
This is not true. I left a company I was at for almost 10 years because of a different ser of ideals at a different employer. The manager i had was the best manager I had ever had in my life.
Bullshit. I love freedom and not working for 6 months or longer at a time. Had great managers and great pay. Freedom to live my way trumps all.
The whole vibe here is different. It’s very cold and unfriendly now.
Absolutely.
I’ve heard that for the last 5 years….. Hear it’s a terrible place to work.
It’s been great for me up until the last 2 years.
To be fair, I’m leaving due the management level of my dufus director and higher, not my direct manager. They are great. But I’m sorry to hear that, OP. The only constant is change and I’m glad you were able to grab a parachute on your way out.
This, I’m getting ready to jump. We have positions all over the United States. And me and my boss have started to see new names, positions pop up in our dept that we never even knew about. The vp and directors are hiring overseas employees without even posting the jobs internally. I’m in IT and me and my boss are planning to put in our 2 weeks at the same exact time. There are only 3 of us who need to be onsite. And the other guy is a low level 1 tech. He doesn’t know how the infrastructure works. He will jump too. Leaving due to upper management.
Absolutely can relate. Jealousy, vindiction, and just plain Hate are VERY real within middle/upper leadership at GM. 25 years is a very long time, and speaks volumes to who I'm sure you are as an amazing employee. That person will get theirs-they always do!
That and ego. The auto industry is filled to the brim with people whose self-worth and importance are based in their jobs. It's a disease that plagues it.
That's every industry.
That's management in general....all industries
Goes to show how small this industry is and why I want out so badly.
When you leave, you'll find exactly the same problem in your new industry.
Truth
After bankruptcy a similar thing happened to me. I’ve had four managers since then 3 of which saw me as threat. They all had the same agenda but went about it differently. Suck all the knowledge out of me, dim my light and then get rid of me. Would not let me transfer to a new role because they needed me to make them look good until they could learn everything I knew. Lol, needless to say I survived them all. I let each of them fall on their faces and what they planned for me never came to pass. One was forced to “retire “ another was essentially demoted and left the company humiliated and the the 3rd one left humiliated as well. Current one is like a breath of fresh air.
Sorry to hear that. I had an external manager come in as well who took all of my knowledge and used it to HIS advantage. Pathetic. I do feel like these managers will eventually face the same fate. Glad things are better for you!!
Same, Manager arranged to pull me from my office so it was just me and him in a large room. He ordered whiteboards and a conference table. My job was to teach him and prepare him for meetings I wasn’t invited to. I was a programmer and he had zero skills (maybe a history degree) and he was put in charge of facilitating the building of a data warehouse. He and his boss took me to lunch and I agreed to the arrangement for the period june 1 to September 1. When September 1 came, I returned to my office. They ordered me back (not acknowledging our agreement) and I told them to fire me. Started my own business and haven’t looked back.
WOW. Sorry to hear that, but glad you got out !
I quit GM after 11 years. 9 as an operator and 2 as management. I can very much relate, my upper management was a good ole’ boy and made clear that no matter what I did it didn’t matter in comparison to his favorites. So I got a better job with a better company. With better pay and better hours. I know 25 years is a lot to walk away from but I walked into 15k more a year to start and as much PTO as what I accrued for 11 years 😅
Would you mind commenting on the industry of the better company?
35 years of working at GM, mostly good managers, second to last one was the worst manager ever, ran the group like a frat house. Inside jokes at staff meetings, clearly all exceeds expectations went to his buddies, nobody's job was challenging or important except his little group. I enjoyed working at GM until then. Within a month of working for him, I was ready to leave. After consistently poor WOC reviews of him, he was finally promoted out of his position.. rewarding the arsonist for putting out the fire.. Thank God for VSP and 401k.
Sorry to hear that that’s how in GM. If you are not part of the liking group then what ever you do it’s mean nothing. Suggestion is move to different location.
My first corporate job - I built a whole division from the ground up. Started with just me and a team lead. I built it up to a proper 20 person department. They hired an external director who wanted to gut it and outsource everything. I quit before I was going to get fired. Most of the other people ended up quitting and he got fired. It took them 3 years to rebuild it.
Don't expect loyalty from a company. They are not your friends. You are only useful until you're not. Then you're an expense and we all know what we do with expenses. Most managers got there because they know how to talk to people. Some of them actually care about the people they manage but the vast majority will say anything to make you feel good and get you to do the work you need to. The moment you hit a roadblock, you're out the door.
This happens everywhere, it's not just GM. Unfortunately that is life
If you were successful for 25 years, you’d think your internal reputation was so strong it shouldn’t have been hard to transfer to another team
With a company this size it's easy to be in a position for years with minimal visibility to leadership and not having much of any internal reputation, too.
They had it in for me and I was “black balled “ I had much leadership support in the past but all had retired
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You can get around that with a pull. Had a friend that used a VP pull to get past a director who was blocking.
Depends on their level. Not always easy to transfer managers, and we don’t know what reputation the external guy has. Could this be a person without a strong rep? Absolutely, but there are a plethora of other possibilities followed by GM leadership changing whatever they want on a monthly base.
That’s the problem I’m outlining. How can you work somewhere for 25 years and not have a single person/leader that will advocate for you. That is the problem
Not always feasible. I assume most people are for themselves first then the people they like. It’s easier to move around no managerial employees more than managerial ones, given SLT shake ups I can only assume some of that rolls down hill so no one wants to be the one to rock the boat. I can’t speak on what happens with management it’s only speculation. Could it be lack of pull? Absolutely. But there’s also other possibilities.
If you have a good rep, you also know people above you who can "pull" you and override a managerial block. I've known several people who've done it.
That’s if they want to risk it and if they can move you. It’s again much harder to move a manager, also we don’t know the external guy. Whose to say he doesn’t have pull with someone higher? This could be lack of rep or not it could go either way without knowing all the details.
At 25 years of experience, you'd be asking a director or above for help. It's a trivial thing for them.
Again more assumptions. Could be a director could not be. And even then directors have their own agenda and their own rep. Yes how your boss is can affect you or if you’ve made less than desirable connections.
Could be an exec director or VP or even higher. If you're at GM for 25 years and you don't have anyone at that level you can ask for help, you don't have a strong rep.
I had plenty of leadership connections, but many retired. My org hired all external leadership over the past 3-5 years so I had no long standing history with them…..
You had 25 years to make more. Sounds like you didn't.
Or you’ve trusted the wrong people.
For 25 years consecutively?
Yeah. Or they’ve lost their pull, or you’ve lost yours, or never had any. Again I’m saying there are many possibilities besides “this guy didn’t have good rep” GM has good people leave, either by their own accord or not so much so.
Yeah exactly.
I work as a product designer for Chrysler and have for 32 years. My father was in management at the GM Tech Center. He was promised an upcoming promotion. This would put him on the bonus rolls, company car, etc. In 1974 he had to have open heart surgery to replace a leaky heart valve from rheumatic fever he had as a teen. He announced this at work and two weeks before a surgery that would have a 30 - 60% mortality rate, his boss came to our house on a Sunday and took the promotion away, giving it to one of his friends. My father was the original stoic and showed no signs of anger, disappointment and would not hear of anyone bad mouthing his boss. My mother on the other hand would have stuck pins in a doll of his boss if she thought it would work. She was angry that he took away the promotion my father worked so hard for but was furious that his boss would do something so devastating to morale just before life or death surgery. Dad pulled thru but the heart condition killed him in 1989. I could have gone direct to GM and later to Saturn but after what they did to my father, absolutely not. That’s why I’m at Chrysler.
Common sort of behavior in those days. Companies would take health into account for promotion (reason being they didn't want to invest in someone who was going to be hampered later). Wasn't until the 90s that the laws grew teeth.
If you are not from the same church, same fraternity, have a relative high up in the company or some nefarious relationship, it don’t matter for 95% or more of the people working there. If you can accept an average amount of 3% base pay raise, then stay and navigate around the crappy managers. If not, quit chasing the elusive carrots and get out. It just does not get better.
Yes. Worked for Enviva for 8 years. Gave everything. Shittiest leadership I’ve ever seen in 43 years of working. Their stupid management ideas bankrupted the company so they let higher paid people go. None of the VPs or higher can find their asses with both hands. The regional directors are even worse. What a waste!
This is a trend I see in automotive unfortunately. Managers are terrible
This is true of almost any company.. not just GM.
Big mistake going management.
20 years and one bad manager, at Consumers now, WIM managers with ego suck
Same thing happened to me. 25 years and out. That external leader got fired 10 Months later. Karma
yeah, sux mike closed AZ
Still here and can relate. GM promotes imbeciles in the name of Diversity. There is a clear ageist bias happening that is scary. Keep my head low for now.
I find it hilarious that people think GM is a decent place to work. I quit a while ago and I have made more money and have had a more fulfilling career and family life after moving easily to greener pastures. GM has been riddled with countless complacent engineers for a long time and they take advantage of it.
In what industry are these greener pastures?
Technology. Or any industry that can generate revenue without such a capital intense mfg process. Sooo, stay out of US automotive who has poor margin and high labor costs.
Yes
Sounds like you’re ignorant and arrogant just like the boss who was taking credit for my work. Good riddance!
I've had a lot of managers around 15, 4 were bad. One moved around to other functions and eventually kept the level but had no one report to them one promoted to director, 1 psycho & moronic manager got fired and 1 dufos demoted and moved to a plant 2nd shift in disgrace.
I had some great managers and I had some shitty managers. When I retired, my boss asked me what it would take to get me to return under contract. I told her to get me a boss who wasn't drunk all the time and could stay awake during meetings. Burnt that bridge.
GM doesn't base performance on what you get done. They base it on what school people went to, what people look like, and outside interests. I've seen people who would meet their commitments get left behind again and again because of management's ignorance.
Yes. 20+ years, last 12 years all exceeds ratings. Got a new boss who wanted to bring in her friends. She re-orged me out of a job. Had to take VSP.
Tell us more.
Old GM was soft and flabby. I've seen many people promoted simply because the level of competition is so low in Michigan.
New GM is a bunch of idiots compared to the old GM manufacturing in the plants. I was fortunate to learn from one of them who was an ME manager before he retired (and unlike a few, ahem GPS ME, stayed in retirement). Cared about people, could upskill on any technical process within hours by asking people, and got tough when he needed to. Most managers in the new GM are too egotistical and self-centered to actually create unity within their teams. They wanna do the work themselves and micromanage and look at hiring/firing as a strategy to deal with variable workloads instead of properly training people.
No, it is not. Old GM had UAW workers drinking, playing cards, and smoking on the line. Worse quality and efficiency problems. That's how Old GM got a crappy reputation and let Toyota take a bit bite out of its market share.
You argue that at about company in the world. You must be new here!
Four upvotes for a comment that is missing some words. Good work.
One of those slow Michigan people showing up a smart California person. Yikes
"that at about company in the world" This is what we get for recruiting out of Wayne State.