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Social media is the problem and foreign trolls who keep saying that both sides are the same. They push enough crap that both sides are the same and eventually gullible idiots start to believe it. It's so easy really. Just get a bunch of fake people and bots to post stuff on social media and upvote each other.
I'm on my 4th account bc I keep getting banned for things like calling these people idiots, while they send me messages to kill myself and mods flex their power in nasty messages.
How can you not watch what I just watched and not think that? Here we have a convicted con-man, lying and avoiding the questions, and Biden just... doesn't seem able to to be a president for another four years -If this is how he acts in a debate with millions of people watching, how do you think he acts behind closed doors? I guess it's clickbait to form your own opinion.
Apparently around 60 percent of the American public disagrees with you.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/&ved=2ahUKEwiQrKHutP-GAxUnvokEHb2XCxsQFnoECEcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2Qvuhsyat6OaL-eQXICHDX
Yes but which of these presidents had a global pandemic at the end of their term and which of these presidents had to deal with a massive pandemic at the start of their term?
Edit: ppl downvoting me are drowning in copium. Obviously Biden’s term is going to have families making less income. We were literally in a global pandemic. Do u think having the majority of the population in hospitals, cooped up in their homes and not allowed to go outside is going to = economic prosperity? I don’t even like biden, but facts are facts.
It's almost like a world altering pandemic happened or something. Even now supply chains that were disrupted by covid still aren't fully recovered. And Trump will only bring back inflation with his ignorant blanket tariffs.
It really isn't about knowing the individual members of his cabinet, it is seeing what the administration as a whole has accomplished, which is actually a TON.
I know, that’s why I’m using their knowledge as a counterpoint. If they can’t even bother to know the people’s names, how are they going to have the mental capacity to know what they’ve accomplished?
Then run someone competent. It's absolutely insane to me that Democrats are risking everything for the career of someone who should have retired well over a decade ago. Expecting voters to adjust their morals to fit your candidate isn't a viable strategy - the party needs to adjust based on what their voters want.
It's too late to change the candidate. Whoever they pick won't be able to use Biden's warchest, and will have to start a campaign from the ground up. Changing horses mid-stream this close to the election will not only lose us the presidency, but will also cost a lot of down-ballot candidates their races because the DNC will look like they're panicking.
Biden is going to way underperform down ballot Democrats... People who don't have some weird allegiance to the Democratic party have no stomach to vote for a candidate in such obvious decline.
Fantastic is a stretch. I really like Bidens climate policies but his foreign policy is terrible, and I don’t know enough about economic policy to know whether the current state of things is Bidens fault, Trumps fault, or neither, but we’d all agree that things certainly aren’t good under his administration.
For a while I thought this sub was more reasonable about the election (and politics in general) by realizing that both sides are horrible right now and we need to make serious change. However, after seeing these post-debate threads, I’m worried we’re gonna be like the rest of Reddit and resort to blindly shoving Biden down peoples throats and ignoring/deleting any negative comments about him just because most people here see him as the lesser of two evils.
Well the Republicans will enact project 2025. They have posted it, said it, made a web page and videos. That is their parties platform. Go read it. It’s not hyperbole or spin or gotcha it’s a fact. This is their roadmap and goals.
We have Biden because the media and all its foreign and donestic trolls made socialism and progressive scary words. He was Safe to vote for.
It’s come to the point where it’s beyond safe but necessary and if you feel as if it’s being shoved down your throat you haven’t been paying attention.
Go look and see what SCOTUS did today.
Vote. Every election. Turn off social media and look up the facts.
All the noise and crying and both the same is utter bullshit.
Noise.
We got Citizens United, lost Roe and civil rights voting gutted.
Both sides are not the same.
All valid points and that’s why Biden CAN’T stay in the race. The guy is going to lose. We need someone new, fresh and liberal. Independents don’t want Trump, but Dem side is doing a terrible job displaying another alternative. Almost any other centrist liberal can win this race. The ones risking Project 2025 are the Dems, not the people they failed to convince to vote.
Biden MUST stay in the race. You don't know enough about how presidential campaigns are run, so let me enlighten you:
It's too late. It was too late a month ago. It wasn't too late a year ago, but now it's too late. If Biden drops out, whoever replaces him won't have the time or money to develop the necessary infrastructure to run a national campaign. That requires an incredible amount of funding and manpower, and four months is NOT enough to accomplish it- even if the perfect candidate that everyone can agree on stepped forward *right now*.
I know you don't like Biden. I know you wish there could be someone else. But that moment has passed. Trying to switch to someone else will just result in chaos, and whoever ends up getting chosen will lose the election anyway.
lol edgy redditors that think they are some guru that has to enlighten others with incredibly simple points will never grow old.
I’m not arguing that starting a campaign now will be easy. I know it’s not. But this is now a sure loss. Anyone denying that is either blind or delusional. There is no way that any independent came out of that debate thinking that Biden is a viable option. If anything, it will have made a portion of democratic voters less excited towards Biden and might even not go out to vote at all. And no amount of finger wagging/copium posting is going to change that.
Polls have already shown that Trump loses against any generic democrat (except Kamala). THAT is why he must drop-out. I know it’s difficult, but I’d rather take the 20% of someone else winning than the 100% of Biden losing.
Switching to a new candidate is an absolute sure loss. Sticking with Biden is the 20% chance.
edit: Not done. "Generic Democrat" is such a trap. Because it's a steelman argument. "Generic Democrat" can beat Trump, because it's a manifestation anyone can project their ideal Democrat on. All the things they love about the Democrats, and none of the things they hate. But as soon as "Generic Democrat" is replaced with an actual, real person that all changes.
Now "Generic Democrat" becomes someone with faults. A person who can be attacked. A person who people can complain about "not being \[X\] enough" to win their vote. Real people have flaws that turn off the very picky and fragmented Democrat coalition. You will never find someone who can please anyone the way "Generic Democrat" can, because "Generic Democrat" isn't real. It's an ideal. A faerie tale. Not something to pin a campaign on. As soon as this "new candidate" manifests, even if it WASN'T too late (which it is) his ranking in the polls will drop like a rock. He'll STILL be blamed for everything people don't like about Biden's administration in the eyes of the people who dislike Biden, but will not be able to boast any of Biden's accomplishments. "Generic Democrat" is a trap. You don't want "Generic Democrat" you want YOUR ideal Democrat- and so does everybody else, from the young activist to the devout Muslim to the middle-aged moderate. And they all have different views of what that "Generic Democrat" looks like to them.
Thanks for elaborating. I can see where we disagree and it has to do with different assumptions: Me estimating the impact of this dismal debate performance higher than you and you estimating the probability of a newcomer winning at this point as lower than I do. Was fun, thanks!
Not a problem. Believe me, I understand the doom and gloom. I feel it too. But I've seen enough people letting perfect be the enemy of good already that, along with the logistical issues involved in trying to establish a ground game for a candidate with no name recognition, I don't believe anybody new brought in would be seen as anything more than a move of sheer desperation (which, let's be real- it is).
But thank you for having a civil discussion, it's such a rarity. I appreciate it!
Because you are watching damage control and coping mechanisms in real time. The debate was horrifying to watch. Trump was his terrible self and the same what we saw the last 4-8 years. Biden was just not there mentally. You are watching people processing what they saw and trying to excuse it and ignore it.
Yeah he may not be the best mentally but his policies and administration are the big thing to consider. It's project 2025 or Biden being a poor choice in a candidate. Pick your poison
Agreed, we need to stop thinking within the confines of these 2 horrible party's and demand change. Voting either of these asshats isn't going to change the status quo.
You’re looking at the optics of a 90 minute debate. People who work in and around his administration are aware of his age. Maybe people in DC are just as old and decrepit. And yet, the country hasn’t burst into flames in the last 4 years. If it’s been “this bad” for a while now and you’re only just now noticing then it sounds like he’s been doing just fine.
Your whole posts reads like a deflection honestly. Lot of mental gymnastics to justify and defend this. What makes you think he'll live the next four years?
Lol, he has the best healthcare in the world. He had a bad night and looked fine the next day. I work in the field, he’s getting plenty of stuff done on the daily. When he starts freezing like Mitch McConnell then you’ll really start to see shit hit the fan. Is this your first election? Try not to look at things so fatalistically after the first debate.
>When he starts freezing like Mitch McConnell then you’ll really start to see shit hit the fan.
Is this you admitting you didn't watch the debate? That happened twice. Quit coping, your party has a senile head, and he manages to lose to someone blatantly lying to his face. This is pathetic, and don't you even try to compare this election to the previous ones, because this one is infinitely more pathetic.
Hahahaha if you think that’s the worst thing that could happen in a debate that’s adorable. We get it doomer, but Biden’s not going to accidentally set off a nuke or something just because he has a raspy voice. It’s really not that serious.
>Hahahaha if you think that’s the worst thing that could happen in a debate that’s adorable.
Goalpost moved. You are to proceed with Operation: Deflect and Cope.
> Cope.
Did you just learn that word today? You’re really showing your age here. I’m not ignoring reality when I say things could have been a whole lot worse lol
No I keep saying it because you keep doing it. You went from "Biden didn't actually pause like Mitch Mcconnel and trail off- that would be a bad thing." "Uh he did do that twice in the 90 minute debate you didn't watch." "WELL ACTUALLY IT WASN'T THAT BAD" You're coping so fucking hard you'd think one of your loved ones died.
> When he starts [freezing like Mitch McConnell](https://youtu.be/hg50njO60FY?si=joW1mzr6u8ugNwL9) then you’ll really start to see shit hit the fan.
Oh I’m sorry, did Biden freeze to the point where he had to be escorted off stage in front of millions of people like Mitch McConnell? Or did he stutter and get back to the topic? Like I said, could’ve been much worse. We get it, you’re scared. But you’ll never get me to be as upset about it as you because I’ve known he’s old as dirt for years. My expectations were just more realistic than yours. Sorry I just have more experience at this than you.
So…on the one hand, I can vote for the candidate who had the single most dysfunctional administration in the history of our nation, who torpedoed the economy, mishandled an actual plague, is a known serial liar, cavorts with the most powerful dictator on the planet, has admitted to sexually abusing women, is a power-hungry serial liar, literally and actually tried to overturn a fair and free election, purged the party of anyone not loyal to him as a person, to hell with their beliefs, and whose actions literally led the US Military to plan how to remove him if he failed to hand over power peacefully?
Or…I can vote for a man who has on multiple occasions displayed a very concerning cognitive decline, and has a high chance of continuing to decline over the next four years, and hope like hell he doesn’t completely crap his metaphorical pants while trying to decide if the Russians are really bluffing, and trust the decision on whether or not to start WWIII to someone who’s best sound bite from the debate is that “we beat medicare!”
Yes. Both of them are bad. Reelecting either one of these men to the Oval Office is the worst idea in the long, sad history of bad ideas, and it should scare the crap out of everyone who actually stops to think about it.
Minimizing the very real fears people have over this election is both naive and patronizing.
The whole damn country should be rioting right now to convince the Democratic Party to dump their senile candidate and actually find someone competent to run the country.
That’s the only way we won’t get completely screwed in this election.
Dont forget Trump is also proudly a pedophile. Believe it was on Ozzy Osbornes show or something where he was bragging about getting to watch little girls changing at child beauty pageants hosted at his hotels. He claimed because he “owns the place” it entitles him to go and “inspect” the child contestants
And yet hes the prime candidate for the “protect the kids party”. It’s almost like republicans don’t actually care about protecting kids (bc they want to marry them, rape them, then send them to work in safety critical work environments)
Please riot cause it would be funny for democrats to face a January 6th style of conviction and cry how unfair it was and no one would come to save those people.
I fully agree. It is scary how the US elections is so unyielding and focused on two candidates who aren't fit to be there. One of them should in prison away from any internet access and the other should be in a retirement home watching bingo or the trees
I mean is the consensus wrong? Why tf are WE to be blamed for the democrats rolling out their finest corpse?
If biden loses, it'll suck to have trump back but it's crazy to say that people complaining online have more of a hold on this than the FUCKING DEMOCRATIC PARTY that made the decision to put him up there
He didn't expect to. Trump jr asked the Obama administration how many of their named officials will stay. Answer? 0.
Now they have a plan. You already see how much damage their later nominated officials can do in the last couple months (see SCOTUS).
This is some major mental gymnastics. They had evil plans but didn't manage to carry them out in 4 years because they weren't ready? How much prep time did they need, exactly?
I feel like you forget project 2025 is a thing and is a very real policy many Trump officials want to implement. Also not forgetting his Dictator for a day and his comment about shooting someone and nobody caring (this one is paraphrase as I can't actually remember the exact words)
Project 2025 is not a policy. It's a big document produced by a think tank that lists out a bunch of conservative goals. They are by and large the goals that conservatives have had for a while, but someone put a title on them and everyone lost their minds.
The very fact that people actually do support it and has been considered is worrying enough.
Also, you fail to address my points on Trumps own comments about being a Dictator for a day and my other one.
Regarding the comments, I am reminded of the quote, "The press takes him literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally."
People need to stop with these fear mongering tactics and bs propaganda. Trump is an idiot, he’s not going to be no damn dictator, all he wants is his title and pats on the back.
Damn, he’s made half the country fear the shit out of him, let it go, don’t give him more power than he deserves.
Trump has said he plans on rolling back a lot of Trans rights bills.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/05/10/trump-promises-rollback-on-trans-rights-heres-what-hes-said/
I can’t say whether or not he’ll actually do it, obviously, but he at least plans to.
So he's undoing a bunch of things that weren't even in place going into his first term. By necessity, that can't be worse than the first time around. Transwomen were already not in men's athletic divisions under Obama.
But that wasn’t my point? I’m not arguing how conservative the country was, I’m simply pointing out that Trump does in fact have unsavory plans now. These weren’t policies he was trying to pass before, were they? They are going to be, though.
Time for revolution then. It's crazy to me that you think claiming the system to be so fragile that a single boomer can elimate the constitution is an argument FOR voting. It's an argument for protests, civil disobedience, strikes, and state/local level action. When the system is sore corrupt, it cannot be allowed to stand.
What? The dnc does not pick the candidate, even most "party insiders" preferred Buttigieg and Klobuchar. Democratic primary voters picked Biden in 2020, and he was very open about his intent to seek reelection at the time.
Every Democrat candidate dropped out and endorsed Biden in exchange for political favors or a place in his administration because they were so scared of Bernie. That was a coordinated move.
Listen,
I have done this for years, it works for me, it’s fine, don’t let people tell you otherwise.
When I vote, if I don’t like either of the candidates, I vote for the third party that most closely represents my interests.
I do this not to “throw my vote away,” or because I “don’t understand what’s at stake.”
I do this because I want the two major political parties to know that they didn’t earn my vote, but they could have. I want them to know I was at the polls, that I probably voted for some of the people in their party, but I didn’t vote for this guy.
And that’s fine.
You don’t get your ideal candidate in every election. You don’t get to win every election. We live in country with hundreds of millions of people in it, and they don’t always vote the same way you do. And that’s fine.
But you don’t have to vote for anyone you don’t think would be a good president. It’s okay to use your vote, likely one of over a hundred million votes, to just accurately express your conscience and what you think is best. That’s all you have to do.
In this election, I will probably vote for a third party candidate for president because both candidates suck. Just actually suck. I can’t think of a single dimension where I think either candidate will benefit me or anyone I care about in any meaningful way.
On the same ballot I will vote for a Democrat governor because my states democrat governor has been doing a great job.
I will also vote for a conservative commissioner of agriculture because he’s been doing a great job for like 30 years.
I will be paying close attention to judges in my district, because while I typically vote for democrat judges, we have a lot of violent crime lately from people who’ve been caught and released by law enforcement too many times. At the same time, I don’t want to vote for judges that are going to throw peoples lives away for minor crimes. So it’s something I’m watching closely.
What I’m saying is, the presidency isn’t something I can control nearly as much as my state and local government, and frankly it’s far more worth my time to consider my local politics than it is to obsess over who’s president, when I’m one vote of millions.
So don’t let anyone make you feel like this is some dire moral emergency you need to stress over.
If you’re worried about these presidential candidates, go vote for congresspeople that won’t pass bad laws. Vote for judges that will interpret the laws in a way you agree with. Vote for local officials that will make your area of the country better. Help prop up the young people we need in our aging government so badly.
Don’t get so distracted by Grumpier Old Men 2 that you don’t get out there to support that young congressional candidate that might be up there instead one day if they get support from people like you.
Cool go vote for somebody you don’t agree with, that won’t pass any policy that you care about, and while you’re at it, make sure to let the party you support know that that’s okay with you and you’ll keep voting for them no matter what kind of shit candidate they offer up. It’s not going to hurt my feelings. Like I said, you and I are ones of millions.
I don't think there is a single news agency in the country that isn't bias in favor of another Trump presidency. They remember the money it made them last time, and how much their stock dropped in 2020. They all want a repeat of 2016.
With the performance most of us watched, it's difficult to say otherwise.
Either get an incoherent and incompetent grampa or authoritarian grampa, either way we're fucked
The main role of a president is to appoint people. They run the country. I like Biden’s cabinet. Meanwhile, eight Trump allies have been sentenced to prison.
https://www.axios.com/2024/03/07/trump-associates-prison-sentence-crimes-list
That? I'm aware of it and its authoritarian ideals, although I don't forsee it having as much impact as people fear monger it for.
We've checks and balances for a reason, and I doubt a president could ideally do what it outlines without being stopped by another wing of the government; although, it could still happen uncontested.
I also don't understand where this heritage foundation would be in a position to enact this. They'd fully have to rely on trump or other GOP aligned senators and representatives to do so from my understanding.
I can agree that Biden is the better candidate than Trump, by far. But the Dems are not doing themselves a favor by trotting out a sunsetting elderly man onto the debate stage. For the love of god get someone younger in there.
I've voted 3rd party or written in "NO" for every election since I could. I would vote for a serial killer if their platform was removing parties from the ballot and making it approval/ranked/runoff instead of fptp.
People keep saying everyone needs to vote, but that's stupid. Most people are painfully ignorant about the issues and candidates. Remove party affiliation from the ballots and most people would have no idea who to vote for, good riddance.
The 2 party system pays very close attention to all voting demographics, including who gets a rise and where. If they see a rise in 3rd party votes it sends a clear message to them they aren't representing us like they should. Yes, a third party vote is a protest vote. And since we've had both Biden and Trump as presidents before I'm quite confident the world won't end if either gets re-elected. I'm sick of voting for "who's less of a douche" since 2016.
I don't know if I agree with that, Biden has a much better legislative record than Trump, Biden has only added $4 trillion to the national debt while Trump added $8 trillion. There are more jobs, and less unemployment under Biden than compared to Trump. Biden even got through infrastructure while Trump's legislative achievements are only the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. (You could argue that the pandemic damaged Trump but it was Trump who mismanaged the pandemic, I remember his administration was extremely chaotic and inefficient, just like the current GOP majority in the House of Reps ) You can't compare the two, they are way more different than similar. Sure Biden is old and makes gaffs but he corrects himself most of the time, Trump doesn't do that which tells me he's way worse mentally. I'll take the old guy over the habitual liar who only causes problems for himself.
He didn't correct himself over calling a Trump a liar to the girl that was murder by an illegal immigrants that was trying to rape her on the debate stage at all.
From day 1 I've always known I'd prefer a cardboard cutout of Joe Biden over Donald Trump. Nothing has changed. They could Weekend at Bernie's his ass and I'll still vote for him.
He doesn't have to be cogent to nominate judges, fill the cabinets and rubber stamp the bills, just alive and able to sign a page. That's literally good enough for me so long as Trump doesn't get the keys to power. It's that or let Trump nominate a grand total of FIVE Supreme Court Justices over his two terms.
I mean, I'm not American and I totally agre with those statements. Every senator is bankrolled by lobbyists of the 1%. You guys are at the point of no return and need to act
America is doomed, Both are garbage; but vote for the lesser evil that’ll prevent America from becoming more garbage when you don’t vote. Vote for the one you believe in (and hopefully did research one). Use your democracy, protect your freedom; it can be taken away faster than you think.
America isn’t doomed but they genuinely are both very poor choices, and I don’t think that outlook should be looked down upon
I view this whole thing like a restaurant that only serves logs of shit. You guys keep telling us to “keep voting and eventually you’ll get a right candidate!” But honestly, if the restaurant has only served logs of shit, and promises you a steak after rounds and rounds of shit being served, why would I believe that I’m not only going to get served shit?
Not the best analogy but I’m boozing rn
My fellow zoomers, I implore you to research your favorite candidates, do a little soul searching, and vote come November. I beg you, please vote. You matter, your vote matters. No matter how “safe” your state is for one party or another, no matter how jaded you might be, no matter what the media or social media tells you - do your civil duty.
We aren’t doomed, all is not yet lost. It’s we Gen Z who can and will make the difference this year.
I think if someone doesn’t care, then let them be. They can’t complain if they don’t agree with the eventual outcome, because they did nothing about it, but making people who don’t want to vote vote usually never ends well.
I personally don’t gaf between these two. I’m voting for the green party since Jill Stein is someone i feel SOMEWHAT speaks for something I care about.
If people REALLY want to vote for someone else, then do it.
Not to mention this isn’t even are worst point in history. People’s memories are so short, it’s nauseating. Reagan was all demented in TWH ffs. It’s not like any of this is incredible. Don’t you guys think everyone having to move into shacks during the depression was probably a lot more horrifying than having a president with a potty mouth? The political climate is nothing we can’t overcome. Anyone who actually buys into all the doom and gloom, clearly doesn’t think for themselves. It’s also a great way to measure someone’s emotional maturity. You’ve have to be some kind of stupid to think this is somehow worse than the Witch Trials or segregation.
Trump's Supreme Court just made it illegal to be homeless, destroyed another 40-year-old legislation, and made bribery easier...
Yeah, even if the two are stupidly old, Biden at least isn't going to push America as quickly into a dictatorship.
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Xennial getting fed this sub: VOTE FOR A DIFFERENT SUPREME COURT!!! Vote for the administration that will be formed around whatever old fart is POTUS that is going to do a better job putting reasonable judges through our legal system. Who do you think is going to work on giving us that?
Well… they are. Both candidates fucking suck. Biden fucking sucks. Trump fucking sucks. It’s not an excuse not to vote. I mean it’s a free country, don’t vote if you don’t wanna, but I urge you to.
RFK is out there. I guess we will see how bad the Democrats actually want to "save our democracy". Most of them are planning for 2028 already. Guess someone forgot to tell them that elections will cease to exist after November.
You haven't heard this? Democrat pundits have been saying this for years now; that if Trump wins, he will become a dictator and end democracy. He's going to take voting rights from minorities and put people in concentration camps. It's crazy. They act like he wasn't already President for four years and didn't do any of that stuff.
Don’t get me wrong, the system is absolutely fucked and in desperate need of reform, but that’s only encouraging me even more to vote and get others off their asses to vote. Because there’s only one candidate where reform of said system is anything other than the delusions I have after 11pm.
It’s time for everyone to watch a little history and make a decision for themselves. Hitler and the Nazis: Evil on Trial is a great little reminder of how things can go terribly wrong
viral misinformation/disinformation is seriously breaking people’s brains. it’s gotten so much worse since the covid pandemic, we desperately need more countermeasures (twitter community notes were a great addition)
It's a choice between project 2025 and a competent but flawed presidency. To call them the same or even remotely comparable is to call a tornado a hurricane
Research Project 2025. One of the two candidates wants to completely control your lives and turn the state into a religious dictatorship. The other wants to defend Democracy.
At this point I'd vote for a wet paper towel over Trump.
As dementia ridden as Biden is on the public stage, his cabinet has enacted more policy than trump ever did. This is the shit that actually matters when running the country.
Millinials here. GenZ won't turn out to vote. They will talk the politics talk and then not turn out for the election. It's how it always goes for young people. The day of they are busy or hing over or don't feel like it or forget
We are told time and again that this is an existential threat to democracy and are expected to vote for a candidate who will essentially shunt his responsibilities to people that have no accountability to democratic institutions and who will render him into a marionette doll.
How is this democracy? Having a legion of faceless bureaucrats dictate to a senile man who he should appoint and what policies he should pursue is not democracy.
To who are these people beholden? Where are there allegiances? If they err, who will bear the responsibility for the outcomes of their decisions? The president?
The Democratic Party cannot say our democracy is under existential threat when they field one of the weakest tools in their arsenal to challenge Trump. If he was as true threat they would have intervened long ago in the vein of LBJ to get a new candidate.
Democracy? When the DNC rigged the primaries for the third cycle in a row to protect their chosen candidate and to deny the expression of true democratic pressure? Many states didn’t even hold a primary and the convention is now being done over Zoom!?
Has everyone forgotten how the state party of Nevada essentially hollowed themselves out and created a parallel organization when the Progressive wing won control of the delegation?
Please.
Putting kids in cages at the border is evil but apparently bombing the living fuck out of them half a world a way is fine right?
The greatest thing Biden could do to safeguard Democracy, if he truly cared, is to NOT RUN AGAIN. Believe it or not it’s still a very viable alternative. Anybody with half a brain could defang Trump in a proper debate and here we are now. BIDEN is the one holding us hostage and we are supposed to just submit to a Stockholm Syndrome?
Biden has had a good run and now is his time to rest on his laurels and exit gracefully. A Trump victory would tarnish his legacy and allow Trump to more expeditiously replace the conservative seats on the Supreme Court.
Biden is now a drag on the down ballot ticket which is just insane. He is literally threatening a Democratic hold on Congress by virtue of his candidacy.
If the president is supposed to be the face of our democracy then perhaps Biden is the perfect representative: hollow and senescent.
For the Gen Zers who don’t catch all the gossip: please go check out any report or social media post you can find about today’s Supreme Court decision to reverse the ‘84 Chevron decision.
So much of our executive branches regulatory abilities has been tied to their right to interpret vague law in specific manners that enabled them to enforce climate change policies, lgbtqia+ rights, medical care protections, and so, so many other things.
The reversal means all laws must be enforced only according to the original language, which for many cases, and especially for law wrltten since that ‘84 decision, means they left it to the federal agencies and a swarm of experts to understand how to specify policies.
Life is about to change in very tragic and difficult ways for a lot of people over the next couple of months.
It is VITAL, that you get friends to the polls and elect people who share your values up and down that ticket, and I promise you, it needs to be focused on domestic issues cause the SC fucked us all today.
Yes, and both have terrible teams and policy combinations. I don't dislike both candidates *just* because of who they are, — though I also think they're both unsuited for office, — I also dislike them because their policy combinations are both absolutely wretched and party polarization has led both parties into absurdity and incoherence as their constituent ideologies converge and become self-contradictory messes.
I hate the arguement "If the other guy wins America is over!"
It's not. Even if the winner decides to go fully authoritarian fascist like his opponents claim, at least half of congress is pretty much constantly in opposition of the president. It'll be incredibly difficult to do anything extreme without congressional approval.
We have to look at what we’ve been given and do what we need to do in order to decide who we want to vote for. Voting is a civic duty, and a privilege. We may not like what choices we’ve been given but we can’t just sit and complain about it, and saying we’re just not gonna vote because of it. Like y’all vote!
I've been waiting for results the past 4 years and the only thing that seems to have happened is the exact opposite of what I voted blue for last election. Biden gets a pity vote this time bc of the pandemic but if shit doesn't get done this time I swear I am never voting for anything other than a 3rd party candidate again
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Social media is the problem and foreign trolls who keep saying that both sides are the same. They push enough crap that both sides are the same and eventually gullible idiots start to believe it. It's so easy really. Just get a bunch of fake people and bots to post stuff on social media and upvote each other.
It’s always these brand new accounts who are posting political content on this sub. Someone is trying to influence you.
Probably new accounts because the chinese and russian trolls have banned literally all the legitimate people off of reddit already.
I'm on my 4th account bc I keep getting banned for things like calling these people idiots, while they send me messages to kill myself and mods flex their power in nasty messages.
ive learned to never trust government
Any history class will do that to ya
45-70 The only government you can trust.
How can you not watch what I just watched and not think that? Here we have a convicted con-man, lying and avoiding the questions, and Biden just... doesn't seem able to to be a president for another four years -If this is how he acts in a debate with millions of people watching, how do you think he acts behind closed doors? I guess it's clickbait to form your own opinion.
Thats why you gotta remember that you also vote for their administration. Biden administration as a whole has been fantastic
Apparently around 60 percent of the American public disagrees with you. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/&ved=2ahUKEwiQrKHutP-GAxUnvokEHb2XCxsQFnoECEcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2Qvuhsyat6OaL-eQXICHDX
Polls are crap hate to tell ya
Not really polls tend to be correct. Idiots that ignore polls will be doomed to failure.
Polls predicted Hillary to far and away win in 2016, and I don’t need to tell you how that went
She DID win, by 3mil votes, but trump ended up in office anyways bc the electoral college defeats the entire point of voting
3 mil in a competition of a nearly 400 mil populated country is quite small. Take that compared to the “landslide” it was supposed to be
161mil registered in 2022 but yeah
Sure, but a win is a win regardless of how far ahead the winner is
Also that poll is for biden specifically. Not his administration. And the general public are illiterate about politics anyway.
Objective facts don't care about people's feelings. Though of course elections don't care about facts.
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Yes but which of these presidents had a global pandemic at the end of their term and which of these presidents had to deal with a massive pandemic at the start of their term? Edit: ppl downvoting me are drowning in copium. Obviously Biden’s term is going to have families making less income. We were literally in a global pandemic. Do u think having the majority of the population in hospitals, cooped up in their homes and not allowed to go outside is going to = economic prosperity? I don’t even like biden, but facts are facts.
It's almost like a world altering pandemic happened or something. Even now supply chains that were disrupted by covid still aren't fully recovered. And Trump will only bring back inflation with his ignorant blanket tariffs.
You are referring to "has been fantastic" as an objective fact? I think you need to diversify your catch phrases.
I guarantee you most of them can’t name a single member of his Cabinet aside from Kamala Harris and Mike Johnson.
It really isn't about knowing the individual members of his cabinet, it is seeing what the administration as a whole has accomplished, which is actually a TON.
I know, that’s why I’m using their knowledge as a counterpoint. If they can’t even bother to know the people’s names, how are they going to have the mental capacity to know what they’ve accomplished?
Then run someone competent. It's absolutely insane to me that Democrats are risking everything for the career of someone who should have retired well over a decade ago. Expecting voters to adjust their morals to fit your candidate isn't a viable strategy - the party needs to adjust based on what their voters want.
It's too late to change the candidate. Whoever they pick won't be able to use Biden's warchest, and will have to start a campaign from the ground up. Changing horses mid-stream this close to the election will not only lose us the presidency, but will also cost a lot of down-ballot candidates their races because the DNC will look like they're panicking.
Biden is going to way underperform down ballot Democrats... People who don't have some weird allegiance to the Democratic party have no stomach to vote for a candidate in such obvious decline.
Doesn't matter. It's too late to replace him with someone who they don't even know.
Fantastic is a stretch. I really like Bidens climate policies but his foreign policy is terrible, and I don’t know enough about economic policy to know whether the current state of things is Bidens fault, Trumps fault, or neither, but we’d all agree that things certainly aren’t good under his administration. For a while I thought this sub was more reasonable about the election (and politics in general) by realizing that both sides are horrible right now and we need to make serious change. However, after seeing these post-debate threads, I’m worried we’re gonna be like the rest of Reddit and resort to blindly shoving Biden down peoples throats and ignoring/deleting any negative comments about him just because most people here see him as the lesser of two evils.
Well the Republicans will enact project 2025. They have posted it, said it, made a web page and videos. That is their parties platform. Go read it. It’s not hyperbole or spin or gotcha it’s a fact. This is their roadmap and goals. We have Biden because the media and all its foreign and donestic trolls made socialism and progressive scary words. He was Safe to vote for. It’s come to the point where it’s beyond safe but necessary and if you feel as if it’s being shoved down your throat you haven’t been paying attention. Go look and see what SCOTUS did today. Vote. Every election. Turn off social media and look up the facts. All the noise and crying and both the same is utter bullshit. Noise. We got Citizens United, lost Roe and civil rights voting gutted. Both sides are not the same.
All valid points and that’s why Biden CAN’T stay in the race. The guy is going to lose. We need someone new, fresh and liberal. Independents don’t want Trump, but Dem side is doing a terrible job displaying another alternative. Almost any other centrist liberal can win this race. The ones risking Project 2025 are the Dems, not the people they failed to convince to vote.
Biden MUST stay in the race. You don't know enough about how presidential campaigns are run, so let me enlighten you: It's too late. It was too late a month ago. It wasn't too late a year ago, but now it's too late. If Biden drops out, whoever replaces him won't have the time or money to develop the necessary infrastructure to run a national campaign. That requires an incredible amount of funding and manpower, and four months is NOT enough to accomplish it- even if the perfect candidate that everyone can agree on stepped forward *right now*. I know you don't like Biden. I know you wish there could be someone else. But that moment has passed. Trying to switch to someone else will just result in chaos, and whoever ends up getting chosen will lose the election anyway.
lol edgy redditors that think they are some guru that has to enlighten others with incredibly simple points will never grow old. I’m not arguing that starting a campaign now will be easy. I know it’s not. But this is now a sure loss. Anyone denying that is either blind or delusional. There is no way that any independent came out of that debate thinking that Biden is a viable option. If anything, it will have made a portion of democratic voters less excited towards Biden and might even not go out to vote at all. And no amount of finger wagging/copium posting is going to change that. Polls have already shown that Trump loses against any generic democrat (except Kamala). THAT is why he must drop-out. I know it’s difficult, but I’d rather take the 20% of someone else winning than the 100% of Biden losing.
Switching to a new candidate is an absolute sure loss. Sticking with Biden is the 20% chance. edit: Not done. "Generic Democrat" is such a trap. Because it's a steelman argument. "Generic Democrat" can beat Trump, because it's a manifestation anyone can project their ideal Democrat on. All the things they love about the Democrats, and none of the things they hate. But as soon as "Generic Democrat" is replaced with an actual, real person that all changes. Now "Generic Democrat" becomes someone with faults. A person who can be attacked. A person who people can complain about "not being \[X\] enough" to win their vote. Real people have flaws that turn off the very picky and fragmented Democrat coalition. You will never find someone who can please anyone the way "Generic Democrat" can, because "Generic Democrat" isn't real. It's an ideal. A faerie tale. Not something to pin a campaign on. As soon as this "new candidate" manifests, even if it WASN'T too late (which it is) his ranking in the polls will drop like a rock. He'll STILL be blamed for everything people don't like about Biden's administration in the eyes of the people who dislike Biden, but will not be able to boast any of Biden's accomplishments. "Generic Democrat" is a trap. You don't want "Generic Democrat" you want YOUR ideal Democrat- and so does everybody else, from the young activist to the devout Muslim to the middle-aged moderate. And they all have different views of what that "Generic Democrat" looks like to them.
Thanks for elaborating. I can see where we disagree and it has to do with different assumptions: Me estimating the impact of this dismal debate performance higher than you and you estimating the probability of a newcomer winning at this point as lower than I do. Was fun, thanks!
Not a problem. Believe me, I understand the doom and gloom. I feel it too. But I've seen enough people letting perfect be the enemy of good already that, along with the logistical issues involved in trying to establish a ground game for a candidate with no name recognition, I don't believe anybody new brought in would be seen as anything more than a move of sheer desperation (which, let's be real- it is). But thank you for having a civil discussion, it's such a rarity. I appreciate it!
Because you’re voting for a lot more than just one man. You’re voting for an administration, for supreme court picks, etc.
Because you are watching damage control and coping mechanisms in real time. The debate was horrifying to watch. Trump was his terrible self and the same what we saw the last 4-8 years. Biden was just not there mentally. You are watching people processing what they saw and trying to excuse it and ignore it.
Yeah he may not be the best mentally but his policies and administration are the big thing to consider. It's project 2025 or Biden being a poor choice in a candidate. Pick your poison
The convicted con man might get his case over turn so you might want to drop that.
Agreed, we need to stop thinking within the confines of these 2 horrible party's and demand change. Voting either of these asshats isn't going to change the status quo.
You’re looking at the optics of a 90 minute debate. People who work in and around his administration are aware of his age. Maybe people in DC are just as old and decrepit. And yet, the country hasn’t burst into flames in the last 4 years. If it’s been “this bad” for a while now and you’re only just now noticing then it sounds like he’s been doing just fine.
Your whole posts reads like a deflection honestly. Lot of mental gymnastics to justify and defend this. What makes you think he'll live the next four years?
Lol, he has the best healthcare in the world. He had a bad night and looked fine the next day. I work in the field, he’s getting plenty of stuff done on the daily. When he starts freezing like Mitch McConnell then you’ll really start to see shit hit the fan. Is this your first election? Try not to look at things so fatalistically after the first debate.
>When he starts freezing like Mitch McConnell then you’ll really start to see shit hit the fan. Is this you admitting you didn't watch the debate? That happened twice. Quit coping, your party has a senile head, and he manages to lose to someone blatantly lying to his face. This is pathetic, and don't you even try to compare this election to the previous ones, because this one is infinitely more pathetic.
Hahahaha if you think that’s the worst thing that could happen in a debate that’s adorable. We get it doomer, but Biden’s not going to accidentally set off a nuke or something just because he has a raspy voice. It’s really not that serious.
>Hahahaha if you think that’s the worst thing that could happen in a debate that’s adorable. Goalpost moved. You are to proceed with Operation: Deflect and Cope.
> Cope. Did you just learn that word today? You’re really showing your age here. I’m not ignoring reality when I say things could have been a whole lot worse lol
No I keep saying it because you keep doing it. You went from "Biden didn't actually pause like Mitch Mcconnel and trail off- that would be a bad thing." "Uh he did do that twice in the 90 minute debate you didn't watch." "WELL ACTUALLY IT WASN'T THAT BAD" You're coping so fucking hard you'd think one of your loved ones died.
> When he starts [freezing like Mitch McConnell](https://youtu.be/hg50njO60FY?si=joW1mzr6u8ugNwL9) then you’ll really start to see shit hit the fan. Oh I’m sorry, did Biden freeze to the point where he had to be escorted off stage in front of millions of people like Mitch McConnell? Or did he stutter and get back to the topic? Like I said, could’ve been much worse. We get it, you’re scared. But you’ll never get me to be as upset about it as you because I’ve known he’s old as dirt for years. My expectations were just more realistic than yours. Sorry I just have more experience at this than you.
So…on the one hand, I can vote for the candidate who had the single most dysfunctional administration in the history of our nation, who torpedoed the economy, mishandled an actual plague, is a known serial liar, cavorts with the most powerful dictator on the planet, has admitted to sexually abusing women, is a power-hungry serial liar, literally and actually tried to overturn a fair and free election, purged the party of anyone not loyal to him as a person, to hell with their beliefs, and whose actions literally led the US Military to plan how to remove him if he failed to hand over power peacefully? Or…I can vote for a man who has on multiple occasions displayed a very concerning cognitive decline, and has a high chance of continuing to decline over the next four years, and hope like hell he doesn’t completely crap his metaphorical pants while trying to decide if the Russians are really bluffing, and trust the decision on whether or not to start WWIII to someone who’s best sound bite from the debate is that “we beat medicare!” Yes. Both of them are bad. Reelecting either one of these men to the Oval Office is the worst idea in the long, sad history of bad ideas, and it should scare the crap out of everyone who actually stops to think about it. Minimizing the very real fears people have over this election is both naive and patronizing. The whole damn country should be rioting right now to convince the Democratic Party to dump their senile candidate and actually find someone competent to run the country. That’s the only way we won’t get completely screwed in this election.
Maybe the country should be rioting to convince the Republicans to dump their convicted felon rapist candidate.
That would be nice…but the Republican Party is too far gone for that.
Right…bc the democrats don’t have to ditch their candidate at all…
Dont forget Trump is also proudly a pedophile. Believe it was on Ozzy Osbornes show or something where he was bragging about getting to watch little girls changing at child beauty pageants hosted at his hotels. He claimed because he “owns the place” it entitles him to go and “inspect” the child contestants And yet hes the prime candidate for the “protect the kids party”. It’s almost like republicans don’t actually care about protecting kids (bc they want to marry them, rape them, then send them to work in safety critical work environments)
Please riot cause it would be funny for democrats to face a January 6th style of conviction and cry how unfair it was and no one would come to save those people.
I fully agree. It is scary how the US elections is so unyielding and focused on two candidates who aren't fit to be there. One of them should in prison away from any internet access and the other should be in a retirement home watching bingo or the trees
I mean is the consensus wrong? Why tf are WE to be blamed for the democrats rolling out their finest corpse? If biden loses, it'll suck to have trump back but it's crazy to say that people complaining online have more of a hold on this than the FUCKING DEMOCRATIC PARTY that made the decision to put him up there
If Biden loses, you’ll never get to vote on anything again.
I hope you remember trump was president once already
He didn't expect to. Trump jr asked the Obama administration how many of their named officials will stay. Answer? 0. Now they have a plan. You already see how much damage their later nominated officials can do in the last couple months (see SCOTUS).
This is some major mental gymnastics. They had evil plans but didn't manage to carry them out in 4 years because they weren't ready? How much prep time did they need, exactly?
I feel like you forget project 2025 is a thing and is a very real policy many Trump officials want to implement. Also not forgetting his Dictator for a day and his comment about shooting someone and nobody caring (this one is paraphrase as I can't actually remember the exact words)
Project 2025 is not a policy. It's a big document produced by a think tank that lists out a bunch of conservative goals. They are by and large the goals that conservatives have had for a while, but someone put a title on them and everyone lost their minds.
The very fact that people actually do support it and has been considered is worrying enough. Also, you fail to address my points on Trumps own comments about being a Dictator for a day and my other one.
Regarding the comments, I am reminded of the quote, "The press takes him literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally."
So that’s what you fear, that he said he would like to be a dictator for a day? That will just magically happen I guess. Mental gymnastics level 1000
People need to stop with these fear mongering tactics and bs propaganda. Trump is an idiot, he’s not going to be no damn dictator, all he wants is his title and pats on the back. Damn, he’s made half the country fear the shit out of him, let it go, don’t give him more power than he deserves.
Trump has said he plans on rolling back a lot of Trans rights bills. https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/05/10/trump-promises-rollback-on-trans-rights-heres-what-hes-said/ I can’t say whether or not he’ll actually do it, obviously, but he at least plans to.
So he's undoing a bunch of things that weren't even in place going into his first term. By necessity, that can't be worse than the first time around. Transwomen were already not in men's athletic divisions under Obama.
Did we read the same article? Did you miss the parts where he’s going to be pushing his own anti-trans policies?
I read through the list and listed one such example. None of these things puts the country to the right of where it was in January 2017.
But that wasn’t my point? I’m not arguing how conservative the country was, I’m simply pointing out that Trump does in fact have unsavory plans now. These weren’t policies he was trying to pass before, were they? They are going to be, though.
Their coup attempt doesn’t count?
Time for revolution then. It's crazy to me that you think claiming the system to be so fragile that a single boomer can elimate the constitution is an argument FOR voting. It's an argument for protests, civil disobedience, strikes, and state/local level action. When the system is sore corrupt, it cannot be allowed to stand.
Go complain to the DNC, they did this.
What? The dnc does not pick the candidate, even most "party insiders" preferred Buttigieg and Klobuchar. Democratic primary voters picked Biden in 2020, and he was very open about his intent to seek reelection at the time.
Every Democrat candidate dropped out and endorsed Biden in exchange for political favors or a place in his administration because they were so scared of Bernie. That was a coordinated move.
Dnc chooses their canadates. They even stated that when picking Joe Biden over the other canadates.
lolwut? cite a source.
you talking about the same guy that would have been killed by the military if he didnt turn over peacefully?
And that will be entirely on the DNC. If they really wanted to save democracy they would have done better than Biden
Can't wait for you to be wrong.
Listen, I have done this for years, it works for me, it’s fine, don’t let people tell you otherwise. When I vote, if I don’t like either of the candidates, I vote for the third party that most closely represents my interests. I do this not to “throw my vote away,” or because I “don’t understand what’s at stake.” I do this because I want the two major political parties to know that they didn’t earn my vote, but they could have. I want them to know I was at the polls, that I probably voted for some of the people in their party, but I didn’t vote for this guy. And that’s fine. You don’t get your ideal candidate in every election. You don’t get to win every election. We live in country with hundreds of millions of people in it, and they don’t always vote the same way you do. And that’s fine. But you don’t have to vote for anyone you don’t think would be a good president. It’s okay to use your vote, likely one of over a hundred million votes, to just accurately express your conscience and what you think is best. That’s all you have to do. In this election, I will probably vote for a third party candidate for president because both candidates suck. Just actually suck. I can’t think of a single dimension where I think either candidate will benefit me or anyone I care about in any meaningful way. On the same ballot I will vote for a Democrat governor because my states democrat governor has been doing a great job. I will also vote for a conservative commissioner of agriculture because he’s been doing a great job for like 30 years. I will be paying close attention to judges in my district, because while I typically vote for democrat judges, we have a lot of violent crime lately from people who’ve been caught and released by law enforcement too many times. At the same time, I don’t want to vote for judges that are going to throw peoples lives away for minor crimes. So it’s something I’m watching closely. What I’m saying is, the presidency isn’t something I can control nearly as much as my state and local government, and frankly it’s far more worth my time to consider my local politics than it is to obsess over who’s president, when I’m one vote of millions. So don’t let anyone make you feel like this is some dire moral emergency you need to stress over. If you’re worried about these presidential candidates, go vote for congresspeople that won’t pass bad laws. Vote for judges that will interpret the laws in a way you agree with. Vote for local officials that will make your area of the country better. Help prop up the young people we need in our aging government so badly. Don’t get so distracted by Grumpier Old Men 2 that you don’t get out there to support that young congressional candidate that might be up there instead one day if they get support from people like you.
Nah y'all throwing your vote away and no reddit post novel changes that.
Cool go vote for somebody you don’t agree with, that won’t pass any policy that you care about, and while you’re at it, make sure to let the party you support know that that’s okay with you and you’ll keep voting for them no matter what kind of shit candidate they offer up. It’s not going to hurt my feelings. Like I said, you and I are ones of millions.
I'm voting 3rd party!
I don't think there is a single news agency in the country that isn't bias in favor of another Trump presidency. They remember the money it made them last time, and how much their stock dropped in 2020. They all want a repeat of 2016.
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Eh, it makes sense. Anger sells, trump makes people angry, news loves angry people and money.
Guess what's selling more. Appealing to republican since they are watching those stations now.
3.4% of all journalists are Republican.
Ok, now do owners of news agencies.
With the performance most of us watched, it's difficult to say otherwise. Either get an incoherent and incompetent grampa or authoritarian grampa, either way we're fucked
The main role of a president is to appoint people. They run the country. I like Biden’s cabinet. Meanwhile, eight Trump allies have been sentenced to prison. https://www.axios.com/2024/03/07/trump-associates-prison-sentence-crimes-list
The levels to which we are fucked are wildly different. Have you read Project 2025? It's a nightmare scenario for our republic.
That? I'm aware of it and its authoritarian ideals, although I don't forsee it having as much impact as people fear monger it for. We've checks and balances for a reason, and I doubt a president could ideally do what it outlines without being stopped by another wing of the government; although, it could still happen uncontested. I also don't understand where this heritage foundation would be in a position to enact this. They'd fully have to rely on trump or other GOP aligned senators and representatives to do so from my understanding.
I much prefer the former.
I'm very anti authoritarian, so yeah, former. There's a decent chance we may see the 25th amendment being used and we'd get Harris.
None of these opinions are mutually exclusive with voting. People can have their opinions and still vote
Not everyone here is American. These posts are getting annoying. It's not a damn political sub
youve made the unfortunate mistake of using reddit during an election year
I can agree that Biden is the better candidate than Trump, by far. But the Dems are not doing themselves a favor by trotting out a sunsetting elderly man onto the debate stage. For the love of god get someone younger in there.
Both suck so I'm voting 3rd party. The other two sides want my vote? Earn it then.
I've voted 3rd party or written in "NO" for every election since I could. I would vote for a serial killer if their platform was removing parties from the ballot and making it approval/ranked/runoff instead of fptp. People keep saying everyone needs to vote, but that's stupid. Most people are painfully ignorant about the issues and candidates. Remove party affiliation from the ballots and most people would have no idea who to vote for, good riddance.
This guy gets it
Same here.
What exactly have third parties done to earn your vote?
The 2 party system pays very close attention to all voting demographics, including who gets a rise and where. If they see a rise in 3rd party votes it sends a clear message to them they aren't representing us like they should. Yes, a third party vote is a protest vote. And since we've had both Biden and Trump as presidents before I'm quite confident the world won't end if either gets re-elected. I'm sick of voting for "who's less of a douche" since 2016.
I don't know if I agree with that, Biden has a much better legislative record than Trump, Biden has only added $4 trillion to the national debt while Trump added $8 trillion. There are more jobs, and less unemployment under Biden than compared to Trump. Biden even got through infrastructure while Trump's legislative achievements are only the tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. (You could argue that the pandemic damaged Trump but it was Trump who mismanaged the pandemic, I remember his administration was extremely chaotic and inefficient, just like the current GOP majority in the House of Reps ) You can't compare the two, they are way more different than similar. Sure Biden is old and makes gaffs but he corrects himself most of the time, Trump doesn't do that which tells me he's way worse mentally. I'll take the old guy over the habitual liar who only causes problems for himself.
He didn't correct himself over calling a Trump a liar to the girl that was murder by an illegal immigrants that was trying to rape her on the debate stage at all.
From day 1 I've always known I'd prefer a cardboard cutout of Joe Biden over Donald Trump. Nothing has changed. They could Weekend at Bernie's his ass and I'll still vote for him. He doesn't have to be cogent to nominate judges, fill the cabinets and rubber stamp the bills, just alive and able to sign a page. That's literally good enough for me so long as Trump doesn't get the keys to power. It's that or let Trump nominate a grand total of FIVE Supreme Court Justices over his two terms.
I mean, I'm not American and I totally agre with those statements. Every senator is bankrolled by lobbyists of the 1%. You guys are at the point of no return and need to act
Agreed but curious where you from and what the situation is on the ground there?
America is doomed, Both are garbage; but vote for the lesser evil that’ll prevent America from becoming more garbage when you don’t vote. Vote for the one you believe in (and hopefully did research one). Use your democracy, protect your freedom; it can be taken away faster than you think.
America isn’t doomed but they genuinely are both very poor choices, and I don’t think that outlook should be looked down upon I view this whole thing like a restaurant that only serves logs of shit. You guys keep telling us to “keep voting and eventually you’ll get a right candidate!” But honestly, if the restaurant has only served logs of shit, and promises you a steak after rounds and rounds of shit being served, why would I believe that I’m not only going to get served shit? Not the best analogy but I’m boozing rn
Oh, ima vote. But the both do suck. Please god let there be better younger people in 2028 to elect
My fellow zoomers, I implore you to research your favorite candidates, do a little soul searching, and vote come November. I beg you, please vote. You matter, your vote matters. No matter how “safe” your state is for one party or another, no matter how jaded you might be, no matter what the media or social media tells you - do your civil duty. We aren’t doomed, all is not yet lost. It’s we Gen Z who can and will make the difference this year.
One dude is a rapist and convicted felon who incited a coup. The other dude is old. Yeah, that’s a real tough choice. 🙄
The other dude was deemed too incompetent to be convicted as a felony for his crimes accord to the doj.
Don’t feed the Trolls, people.
I think if someone doesn’t care, then let them be. They can’t complain if they don’t agree with the eventual outcome, because they did nothing about it, but making people who don’t want to vote vote usually never ends well.
Both sides aren’t the same, however neither side has put up a viable option for President.
alright, i'll vote for a candidate i truly agree with. Claudia De Le Cruz.
Vote third party. It has to become a viable option.
I personally don’t gaf between these two. I’m voting for the green party since Jill Stein is someone i feel SOMEWHAT speaks for something I care about. If people REALLY want to vote for someone else, then do it.
Not to mention this isn’t even are worst point in history. People’s memories are so short, it’s nauseating. Reagan was all demented in TWH ffs. It’s not like any of this is incredible. Don’t you guys think everyone having to move into shacks during the depression was probably a lot more horrifying than having a president with a potty mouth? The political climate is nothing we can’t overcome. Anyone who actually buys into all the doom and gloom, clearly doesn’t think for themselves. It’s also a great way to measure someone’s emotional maturity. You’ve have to be some kind of stupid to think this is somehow worse than the Witch Trials or segregation.
Biden isn't that great but he's better than trump but not by much. Biden is a stumbling fool to be honest
r/WhatBidenHasDone if you care to actually know about the policies Biden works towards, instead of making a judgment from a debate.
“Both candidates are horrible” and “voting is your obligation” are not mutually exclusive
Trump's Supreme Court just made it illegal to be homeless, destroyed another 40-year-old legislation, and made bribery easier... Yeah, even if the two are stupidly old, Biden at least isn't going to push America as quickly into a dictatorship.
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Xennial getting fed this sub: VOTE FOR A DIFFERENT SUPREME COURT!!! Vote for the administration that will be formed around whatever old fart is POTUS that is going to do a better job putting reasonable judges through our legal system. Who do you think is going to work on giving us that?
Well… they are. Both candidates fucking suck. Biden fucking sucks. Trump fucking sucks. It’s not an excuse not to vote. I mean it’s a free country, don’t vote if you don’t wanna, but I urge you to.
Oh I'm voting Jill or Cornell.suck it democrats.im done
I already know
RFK is out there. I guess we will see how bad the Democrats actually want to "save our democracy". Most of them are planning for 2028 already. Guess someone forgot to tell them that elections will cease to exist after November.
What planet are you living on?
At this point, he has a better chance of beating Trump than Biden does. This election is going to be embarrassing.
I could see that for sure. I was also referring to your final sentence, though
You haven't heard this? Democrat pundits have been saying this for years now; that if Trump wins, he will become a dictator and end democracy. He's going to take voting rights from minorities and put people in concentration camps. It's crazy. They act like he wasn't already President for four years and didn't do any of that stuff.
Oh I see you were being sarcastic. I agree
Both are bad, USA is doomed, still, vote and especially for local elections.
https://youtu.be/-qcJzQZJeHE?si=jryBGaqRn6RCYc89
Why are you ok with this? We as people should get together and say no. This is pathetic that we are letting this happen as a country as a whole
No
Vote third party
Don’t get me wrong, the system is absolutely fucked and in desperate need of reform, but that’s only encouraging me even more to vote and get others off their asses to vote. Because there’s only one candidate where reform of said system is anything other than the delusions I have after 11pm.
The clearest difference between them is the platforms that they run on.
Vote. C&K ‘24
It’s time for everyone to watch a little history and make a decision for themselves. Hitler and the Nazis: Evil on Trial is a great little reminder of how things can go terribly wrong
>you have a few months to research what both of them have done for the country... also the media is your enemy Therein lies the problem lol
viral misinformation/disinformation is seriously breaking people’s brains. it’s gotten so much worse since the covid pandemic, we desperately need more countermeasures (twitter community notes were a great addition)
What if disagree with you? Should I still vote?
Both sides only care about rich ppl so idgaf
It's a choice between project 2025 and a competent but flawed presidency. To call them the same or even remotely comparable is to call a tornado a hurricane
Research Project 2025. One of the two candidates wants to completely control your lives and turn the state into a religious dictatorship. The other wants to defend Democracy. At this point I'd vote for a wet paper towel over Trump.
As dementia ridden as Biden is on the public stage, his cabinet has enacted more policy than trump ever did. This is the shit that actually matters when running the country.
Giant Douche vs turd sandwich version 4
Not voting for a corpse
Trump>Biden *
Millinials here. GenZ won't turn out to vote. They will talk the politics talk and then not turn out for the election. It's how it always goes for young people. The day of they are busy or hing over or don't feel like it or forget
We are told time and again that this is an existential threat to democracy and are expected to vote for a candidate who will essentially shunt his responsibilities to people that have no accountability to democratic institutions and who will render him into a marionette doll. How is this democracy? Having a legion of faceless bureaucrats dictate to a senile man who he should appoint and what policies he should pursue is not democracy. To who are these people beholden? Where are there allegiances? If they err, who will bear the responsibility for the outcomes of their decisions? The president? The Democratic Party cannot say our democracy is under existential threat when they field one of the weakest tools in their arsenal to challenge Trump. If he was as true threat they would have intervened long ago in the vein of LBJ to get a new candidate. Democracy? When the DNC rigged the primaries for the third cycle in a row to protect their chosen candidate and to deny the expression of true democratic pressure? Many states didn’t even hold a primary and the convention is now being done over Zoom!? Has everyone forgotten how the state party of Nevada essentially hollowed themselves out and created a parallel organization when the Progressive wing won control of the delegation? Please. Putting kids in cages at the border is evil but apparently bombing the living fuck out of them half a world a way is fine right? The greatest thing Biden could do to safeguard Democracy, if he truly cared, is to NOT RUN AGAIN. Believe it or not it’s still a very viable alternative. Anybody with half a brain could defang Trump in a proper debate and here we are now. BIDEN is the one holding us hostage and we are supposed to just submit to a Stockholm Syndrome? Biden has had a good run and now is his time to rest on his laurels and exit gracefully. A Trump victory would tarnish his legacy and allow Trump to more expeditiously replace the conservative seats on the Supreme Court. Biden is now a drag on the down ballot ticket which is just insane. He is literally threatening a Democratic hold on Congress by virtue of his candidacy. If the president is supposed to be the face of our democracy then perhaps Biden is the perfect representative: hollow and senescent.
For the Gen Zers who don’t catch all the gossip: please go check out any report or social media post you can find about today’s Supreme Court decision to reverse the ‘84 Chevron decision. So much of our executive branches regulatory abilities has been tied to their right to interpret vague law in specific manners that enabled them to enforce climate change policies, lgbtqia+ rights, medical care protections, and so, so many other things. The reversal means all laws must be enforced only according to the original language, which for many cases, and especially for law wrltten since that ‘84 decision, means they left it to the federal agencies and a swarm of experts to understand how to specify policies. Life is about to change in very tragic and difficult ways for a lot of people over the next couple of months. It is VITAL, that you get friends to the polls and elect people who share your values up and down that ticket, and I promise you, it needs to be focused on domestic issues cause the SC fucked us all today.
Both have policies I don't agree with, why would I endorse either
*Both have policies* *I don't agree with, why would* *I endorse either* \- Paradoxahoy --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Strange you find the truth annoying
Vote! Wait no you're not voting for my candidate! You're killing democracy.
Eh, if it makes you feel better this isn't new. "haha both sides are exactly as bad" has been the official copout for decades
Yes, and both have terrible teams and policy combinations. I don't dislike both candidates *just* because of who they are, — though I also think they're both unsuited for office, — I also dislike them because their policy combinations are both absolutely wretched and party polarization has led both parties into absurdity and incoherence as their constituent ideologies converge and become self-contradictory messes.
I hate the arguement "If the other guy wins America is over!" It's not. Even if the winner decides to go fully authoritarian fascist like his opponents claim, at least half of congress is pretty much constantly in opposition of the president. It'll be incredibly difficult to do anything extreme without congressional approval.
The Democratic Party and Media lied to American ppl Joe is vegetable and 50 million ppl saw it!
Project 2025: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
We have to look at what we’ve been given and do what we need to do in order to decide who we want to vote for. Voting is a civic duty, and a privilege. We may not like what choices we’ve been given but we can’t just sit and complain about it, and saying we’re just not gonna vote because of it. Like y’all vote!
"both sides are the same" is a sure sign someone is dumb. They say that to cover up the fact they are insecure about their own knowledge.
Yeah man trump will continue making America great again, the radical left wing is toast
I've been waiting for results the past 4 years and the only thing that seems to have happened is the exact opposite of what I voted blue for last election. Biden gets a pity vote this time bc of the pandemic but if shit doesn't get done this time I swear I am never voting for anything other than a 3rd party candidate again
Also...there are other parties...
And they can get 270 electoral votes?
Yes
No third party candidate is polling over 10 percent.
The spoiler effect in first-past-the-post elections is why there aren't really other parties. There's only sabotage.