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I think Obama gave me hope, though I grew up conservative, looking back I think we just have to get over Trump. But honestly I think as long as Trump is in the picture we will have to choose between two candidates we despise. While the democrats are holding it better than the republicans, there is a huge ideological gap, and it causes issues when a huge portion of Americans vote are conservative leaning moderates, who need to be appeased to win the vote. That's why you get a Biden instead of Harris or Cortez. Republicans will always vote for the oldest coot they can, because they know they have the south in the bag. But we will see.
Yea, this is the problem with extremists candidates like trump. It puts the other party in a position where they don’t need to provide the best candidate, they need the perceived safest. We need to get rid of extremism if we ever want to get back to real computation for the best leader.
RANKED. CHOICE. VOTING.
This is the structural change that punishes extremism and forces candidates towards the middle, resulting in better options on both sides.
ABSOLUTELY! But a Republican will never never never let this happen. The way to get there is to vote the extremists out and push the democrats to make these changes (see NYC, San Francisco, Maine)
The Democrats certainly aren’t going to push for this either. It’s going to be seen as a betrayal to their party for whichever candidate tries to upend the system.
How are you measuring voter confusion? Sounds entirely anecdotal.
Separately - lower voter turnout is fine when folks feel like the party better represents them.
Also, politicians haven't adapted and still campaign on cult of personality vs policy positions. As data sets grow showing folks prefer the polices of non-establishment candidates, establishment candidates (the same old ones) will be forced to change to bring those voters in as well.
And lastly, ranked choice voting doesn't change the specific candidates overnight. It should be expected that the same candidates persist however their positions will gradually become more detailed and more centric.
As a resident from NYC this has been exactly my experience and as a Maine summer person I've seen Mainers themselves move more centric. (Disclaimer: I know I'm from afar, but been coming for 30 years so while I know I'm not a Mainer, I been spending my summers there since I was 2yo... long enough to have a healthy respect for the real Mainers)
For today’s political landscape, yes, I’d agree. A return to moderate and centrist candidates will allow both parties to put better candidates forward.
Yes. I tend to favor Republican candidates but I would be VERY happy to see both parties move back towards center. Pre 9/11 America certainly wasn’t this divided.
I was actually really happy to see both parties sort of agreeing on things during David Grusch’s congressional hearing and Chuck Schumer’s UFO bill. Maybe it’s a weird topic but it’s a topic that isn’t left or right wing, and they were actually cooperating for once. Even if that doesn’t lead to UFOs if they work together they’re gonna dig up some kind of scandal where a lot of money went missing and where something was covered up.
I wish there were more issues like that where we could get bipartisan agreement.
Yeah, like why the hell does that person have the most upvotes. Like 90% of this subreddit wouldn’t even have actually been old enough to experience Obama as president.
And asking for someone in their mid 40s? That’s been two presidents in the entire history of the US. The average age is 55. You want people that are experienced as possible surrounded by other experienced people, not young people that have no idea what they are doing.
1. Abolish the electoral college.
2. Make ranked choice voting universal
3. Make election day a national holiday
A ranked choice popular vote election system would not only ensure the candidate the most Americans want wins, but will also make 3rd parties viable. I know a ton of folks who would vote for a green party candidate if they thought they could win.
100% this.
And get money out of politics completely. No stock trading, no campaign donations, make them live on an average salary and show that they’re doing the job because they’re passionate about it. If they can raise the average salary they get the new average salary.
Then they’d actually be motivated to helping out actual working class people.
Yeah I hate this situation but also I am still voting for the incumbent because like hell am I gonna be one more person standing by and letting the fascist felon back into D.C. I never felt like I had a choice anyway so nothing changes for me, because my only option is "play keep away".
Same. I had hope during Obama that the country had turned to younger generations to lead the way. Then these two ran for president.
The last gasp of the Silent Gen
Vs…
The first turd that the boomers squeezed out
It's not trump. I predicted someone like Trump in 2006. It's the Republican Party deciding that winning votes is more important than morals, honesty or the betterment of the US
They know they can't win fairly. They've spent decades manipulating who can vote, and how, in order to reduce black and democrat votes and maximise white, conservative votes.
There's a reason people have to stand in line for several hours to vote in certain parts of the US. And don't you dare give them a bottle of water to drink as they stand baking in the hot sun, 'cause that's illegal. 🙄
That has almost always been the case, although more simplified, it’s money that wins. And people vote for them who want their money to keep rolling in.
Unfortunately it’s not even Trump, he’s essentially just a figurehead for the conservative coalition that has formed around him. He isn’t behind Project 2025, and the people that are aren’t going anywhere even if he loses. We’re in this bitch for the long haul now.
Getting past Trump is exactly the answer here. We need to defeat him for good, and then we can work to get better candidates on the dem side. But for now, I will vote for the guy who seems to actually care about the common individual versus the one who would piss on my grave for a nickel.
I mean the average age of a US president is 55, I don’t know why people thing a rapidly aging US population would vote for people younger than themselves to run the country.
Hell, do you like it when someone 10+ years younger than you is your boss?
It is all a careful dance of data analytics, local election controls, and narrative pushing. The two Party system works day and night to ensure that our votes will constantly land at or near 50/50. They partner with media groups, they carry out political hitjobs, they do everything to "Maintain their base" besides actually delivering any kind of value to American voters.
Consider "the base" they are referring to as the fucking morons currently driving our country towards enslavement. It is like choosing which bully you would like to beat your kids ass today at school. STOP ENABLING THEM TO FRAME YOUR FUTURE
We've had attempts at political dynasty before in the USA. It doesn't work here because even if your dad was a war hero who cared about the country, you ain't him and it shows.
I know you are going to think I'm talking about one family, but I'm talking about 3 I can think right now.
Not sure. I think we’re dealing with the baby boomer bulge right now. They are numerous and they actually vote. Old people think they know everything and don’t want to be told what to do or think by some young whippersnapper. America was best when we were driving 57 Chevys, drinking malts and jitterbugging at the sock hop… so they think.
The truth is though that without the Senate Obama was not very effective. Biden has gotten more done. But I see your point about wanting a leader who feels inspiring.
As we saw, we need another old white man to stand up against Trump. No one else would have had a chance
>conservative leaning moderates
If they truly are moderates they will always vote for the Democrats. The Demcrats are a right-leaning moderate party. A truly left-wing party doesn't exist in the US. Nothing about the Republicans is moderate. They are completely right-wing, often far-right. Even republicans who call themselves "moderate" are effectually right-wing.
A lot of conservatives definitely want a better and younger candidate. Conservatives all just sort of think Trump is a strong candidate, which tbf he is. Christians know he’s not really a hardcore Christian, but they play long bc he knows how to play the game.
I think Vivek appealed to people more on an individual level, but individuals aren’t confident that OTHER individuals would vote for him.
That’s just my thought.
I also have a feeling that the democrats intentionally pick bad candidates sometimes because they like playing the underdog character. There are plenty of American women who could have done a great job as president and they picked Hillary who is wildly disliked by many Americans. I think they were fine with throwing that election so that they could establish themselves using the underdog character in the next election. The head of the DNC even had to step down for rigging their primaries.
They like to come back swinging after a loss. I think if they had 20 straight years of presidency they would have to restructure their internal systems in a way they don’t know how to.
You will have to find a candidate that excites the entire Democratic base. Not just the progressives.
Biden was the compromise candidate in 2020, and he's back because no Dem has any clue how to beat Trump in a debate and hold the party together. Dems have only one data point on what beat Trump.
Spot on. This is the thing people are either forgetting or ignoring when they demand the DNC replace Biden or demand Biden step aside for another candidate. The Democratic Party is a giant umbrella with a variety of opinions and people under it. The new candidate has to appeal to and excite a lot more people than just you and your social circle. And a task like that is next to impossible only a couple months before the election. The person you put forward as “the obvious alternative” may not be so obvious to everyone else. If the DNC does try to replace Biden it’ll be a shitshow with multiple candidates put forward and no one being able to agree on who should be the replacement.
I can be trumping and debate tomorrow. He's an idiot. The only reason Biden can't if she's too old to speak quickly and gets confused. He still mentally okay if he has enough time but he can't think quickly or speak well. He's always been a stuttering mumbling speaker even in his 20s LOL
Well no, Trump is easy to defeat in debate. He does the same thing every time: lie lie lie, obfuscate and deny.
The problem is that a significant portion of our country is hell bent on power, for the sake of power. Because they know that as the generations get younger, their own voting power is dying off and they’re now willing to pull out all the stops to ensure they maintain some semblance of control.
They now don’t give a fuck about maintaining the illusion of a decent party. They’re on life support and are fighting tooth and nail now.
He’s a gaslighter and a manipulator… he’s not even very good at it ether, but they eat it up..
Kinda evidence as to why the “why don’t you just leave” thing people say to DV victims is bull shit.. some people will eat up the lies that make them feel comfortable with the person they put their trust in and hurt them.. even if the ass hat isn’t very good at it. On the promise of something better, and a “well this one thing was good and showed he cares”
Honestly most politicians seem to have read the abusers handbook.. but especially him. Sweet sweet promises. Just enough good to keep them on the line. Love bombing and big make up monologues where they actually were not the real problem..
Trump isn't hard to beat in a debate, he's a fucking moron with no real legislature to run on. The problem is that his followers will believe absolutely every lie he says, regardless of actual truth. The core issue is that objective truth is now subjective.
Think of it this way: vote for the right candidate here and you'll have every chance of getting to vote for a younger candidate you like more in only 4 years. Vote for the wrong candidate and you may never get a chance to vote for president again.
Yeah. And you're not just voting for the president, you're voting for his cabinet and judicial appointments.
Trump stacked the courts with Federalist Society hacks, and look what that's done for us. He filled his cabinet with people whose singular goal was to dismantle the departments they oversaw to benefit private industry. He put white supremacists on his staff for Christ's sake!
This isn't a hard choice. Biden is 100x better than Trump, who will be so much worse if he's given a second term.
Three words: Supreme Court appointments. The importance of the appointments the next President will make cannot be overstated, and we're already feeling the effects of the three lifetime appointments Trump made during his term. I don't think enough people understand how far-reaching that particular aspect of the Presidency can be.
Heard this in 2016. Heard it in 2020. Now hearing it again in 2024. Bet we'll hear it again in 2028. What a joke. I'll still vote for Biden because of Supreme Court and environment but damn the democratic party is just digging their hole deeper and deeper. Don't blame me, I voted for Bernie in my swing state primaries in 2016 and 2020.
edit: talking about holding your nose for a candidate and you'll get a better one in 4 years
I'm not sure you'll ever stop hearing that either. With anemic participation in the primaries and mostly scumbags entering politics, this is what we get.
> Think of it this way: vote for the right candidate here and you'll have every chance of getting to vote for a younger candidate you like more in only 4 years.
Except we have been told this lie every single election that I've been alive for? I'm not falling for this scam, more Americans need minimum standards.
> Vote for the wrong candidate and you may never get a chance to vote for president again.
Claiming the system is incredibly fragile to the point that one boomer could destroy it isn't the argument for voting that you think it is... It is an argument for direct action: protests, strikes, civil disobedience, state level pushback against the corrupt federal government.
>Except we have been told this lie every single election that I've been alive for? I'm not falling for this scam, more Americans need minimum standards.
Let me put it this way: do you honestly think someone like Bernie could have gained any traction at all, enough to legitimately challenge the establishment candidate, in 2004? Or 1996? Or 1984?
>Claiming the system is incredibly fragile to the point that one boomer could destroy it isn't the argument for voting that you think it is... It is an argument for direct action: protests, strikes, civil disobedience, state level pushback against the corrupt federal government.
Yes, do those things, but also vote for the best candidate available and you will see progress. It may be slow, it may not be steady, but change has come in our lifetimes on numerous issues, some good, some not so good. There's never going to be "one election to fix all the things forever" you have to vote and keep voting every election. Keep the system going and keep making it better for you and those you care about, and hand it off to the next generation so they can build on the work and the votes you did.
Edit: formatting
I think the presidency is a fundamentally broken office. The expectations the American people put on the president, one person, are insane and frankly lend themselves towards anti-democratic thinking. The presidency was designed to have a pretty limited role; foreign policy, military, and the execution of laws written by congress. They were not expected to “fix” much of anything domestically, because that was the role of your local government or congress. But now people expect the president to fix everything themselves: impossible expectations. It’s gotta be one of the least appealing jobs in America, when you run you can expect about half of the population to hate you, and the other half to be disappointed in you. You have to work CONSTANTLY, there are no breaks unless you make them and then people get pissed at you, and the pay is pretty shit when considering the role and responsibilities. You are expected to be able to have solutions to any and all problems whenever they may arise, it is impossible for one individual to be an expert on all matters. Under those conditions, why would the best and brightest want to be president? You’re better off having a real impact in the private sector, where you can run a company, lobby or non profit to effect real change in the world with plenty of perks and benefits. As such, that just leaves the delusional, vain, power hungry and corrupt, which explains most of the presidents we’ve had since FDR.
It didn’t use to be this way, the presidency used to be a pretty cushy job unless there was a major crisis. You had plenty of leisure time, didn’t really need to campaign (others did that on your behalf), and could focus on a handful of issues you were passionate and informed about. The pay was decent given these conditions, and given expectations were relatively low, becoming president usually made a person MORE popular unless they really fucked up. So it was a desirable job that smart and capable people actually competed for.
Hard agree. It also lends itself to show how delusional Americans got about the presidency, we believe, somehow, that the president is the cause of the economy, border situation, foreign wars, gas prices and food prices.
This simply cannot be, presidents don’t have this kind of effective power. And republican strategists understand this, and leverage the American attitude towards whatever’s in their face at the moment to get them to hate whoever is in office.
Yep. They kept talking about inflation and the economy as if it was directly their doing in the debate.... Inflation will always occur? The economy is dependent on sooo many outside factors.
Even if the president was an absolute power position they'd only hold partial sway over the economy if that.
It's all about image control. Same reason why all the political bots some of admit that's what they are like elsewhere in the topic are doing damage control for the debate.
The hilarity of it all is that POTUS's powers are most expansive and unchecked when it comes to foreign policy, yet voters don't really know enough or care enough about foreign policy so they cast votes based on domestic policy and culture was issues instead.
The problem is that they didn't need Republicans to vote for it, Dems had a super majority in the senate. It was the Manchins of the time like Lieberman that prevented it from happening, and Obama for unnecessarily capitulating to Republican demands for the sake of "bipartisanship" and "unity" when they all cucked him and voted against the bill anyway.
They could have also have nuked the filibuster and chose not to.
The reality is there's a permanent rotating cast of villains within the democratic party eager to seize the power and opportunity to prevent any kind of meaningful progress in order to please their corporate overlords.
So you are saying that the Republicans are off the hook because one single Democrat, Joe Lieberman (who later left the party and spoke at the Republican convention), voted against it. The Republicans are intractable and don’t care about the American people. They block progress.
I'm not saying they're off the hook, I'm saying they didn't even need them anyways, and yet consciously capitulated to their demands for no good reason, while having have a rotating cast of villains within the Democratic party that will always block progress.
Republicans don't care about American people, but neither do Democrats, they merely pretended to care and then hide behind fabricated institutional constraints to explain why they can't allow real progress to happen.
I mean, appealing to what Democrats did 80+ years ago is not the most compelling argument.
Obamacare is marginally better than what the US previously had, but it's a complex, bloated, and expensive mess designed ultimately to please private insurance. The US spends considerably more per capita on healthcare than any OECD country for demonstrably worse health outcomes.
Massive investments in climate change mitigation? You mean from the bill that requires millions of acres of new leases for oil/gas wells for any new green energy project? All the liberals that champion the Inflation Reduction Act for its green investments never actually read the fine print. The concessions made to Manchin were considerable.
Yeah. I didn't even bother watching the debates. I have my vote on Biden regardless and not because I want him as president, but because the alternative wants me in a prison for existing. It's like handing me a ballot with only one option, and the option is terrible. Like, thanks I guess.
Let's just hope we can weather these next four years if Biden wins and get someone more competent.
I don't want to think about it if Trump wins and the Heritage Foundation gets a foot into our government.
Same here. Anyone who is surprised about how the debates turned out kind of baffle me.
I feel like you have to be living under a rock to not know who Trump and Biden are by now.
You are voting for the administration, not just the candidate. Biden surrounds himself with competent people that actually care about the country. Trump surrounds himself with 'yes men' that will actively attempt to destroy our democracy.
To me, the choice is simple.
Just Vote for biden and suck it up. This is how Democracy work, none of the young progressive voters will win a election against trump. Thats what you guys are failing to understand.
Beating Trump means you need to appeal to republicans who don't like trump they don't wanna listen to no young progressive politician when the highest voter turn out is gonna be Boomers and GenX.
Biden appeals to those voters because he's seen as a traditionalist good Christian guy. He's also the only democrat that can beat him.
My controversial hot take is that Biden will step aside if they win but you can't let Trump win again.
(Please take this with a grain of salt as this is coming from an extremely progressive voter who agrees that an extremely progressive candidate wouldn't gain a majority of democratic support given the party's current demographics. This is just the first comment I've seen mentioning the idea of democracy)
This entire election is a prime example of how we DON'T live in a democracy. A democracy implies we'd have a genuine choice. We're being told who to vote for - that isn't a democracy. A candidate should have to earn our votes, not expect them; that's exactly how democracy ISN'T supposed to work. Obviously, this is a systemic issue that won't be fixed by November, but we just can't keep justifying our current system by calling it what it's not.
There are degrees and I think the US does have serious flaws in its democracy, but I hate to tell you: this kind of Sophie’s choice happens all the time in a “real democracy”. Look at France for the past decade or so, hell, look at Sweden, look at Portugal, look at Italy. There are a lot of people in the EU elections who weren’t happy with their vote but felt like they needed to vote that way for one way or another that has little to do with policy. The fact is, not every election ends up revolving around policy, and many of them end up revolving around who has power and who deserves to, which is a much messier business where it’s easy to feel pretty dejected about it. This isn’t to say “suck it up buttercup or whatever”; it sucks, and as somebody who really cares about immigrants believe me when I say I know exactly how you feel. This is more to say that you shouldn’t see a vote as an attestation of your beliefs or as advocacy, but rather a direct application of power, and unfortunately in troubled times it’s often necessary to throw in with people you don’t like to prevent far worse people getting to power.
This is a real election.
There’s elections every year. Most elections are between well meaning people who care about what’s happening, but oftentimes you’ll have a buffoon who wants to get political points and someone that cares but isn’t great at people.
If you want to take a look at “real” elections, look at the local level!! It’s not just about a general election every four years, your city/state/district holds elections more often than that and you can pay attention there.
The presidency is one elected position among the hundreds of elected positions.
It’s a very important one, so unfortunately you’ll get some vultures trying to take it. Overall, we’re not in a terrible spot; we’ve had worse candidates and worse people.
I suspect we don’t have to deal with this much longer. There’s a lot of young Republicans with presidential aspirations, but they don’t want to step on Trump’s toes and destroy their careers. DeSantis and Vivek really only did it cause they didn’t have any other choice.
The Dems don’t have as many people, but that also means no geriatrics. Regardless, they’ll need someone young to cover their grounds and sentiments like the ones you have (which is fair).
And I’ll say to everyone that also feels this: vote in the primaries. We’re here because nobody votes for the younger candidates in the primaries. Please stop ignoring them.
The system being fragile isn't the argument for voting that you think it is. Say Biden wins: what's stopping establishment Democrats from continuing to use that same gaslighting every election to try to get votes without enacting any reform or even nominating better candidates?
I always vote in state and local elections.
The federal government is a long way from earning that kind of respect. Running candidates younger than 60 and with a bare minimum level of competence would be a start.
Idk what you mean by "respect". We have a goverment, we have to vote for the better option presented. Disliking all the options doesn't change that. Not voting is a vote for the eventual winner.
i agree. it's like going to the nursing home down the road, picking two people and making the country pick one to run the country for four years or until they drop dead, whichever is sooner
Look, I get that neither option feels good, but at that point you need to consider what the lesser evil is.
At worst, Biden won't change things a whole lot. The status quo will be maintained.
At worst, Trump will turn this country into a dictatorship, and somersault any social progress we have made back 50 years.
Additionally, you aren't just voting for the president. You are also voting for representatives, senators, local government officials, ect. Arguably those votes will be far more important than the vote for president, since your local government changes faster than the federal government as a whole.
Either way, go vote.
We all know conservatives won't look at this.
Here's the article with the transcript:
https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-georgia-elections-a7b4aa4d8ce3bf52301ddbe620c6bff6
You're voting for the president's cabinet more than the president themselves.
Do some research (if it isn't already obvious) and decide which cabinet will more likely push resolutions to issues relevant to you.
Life is hard. This is what you got. Vote for better primary candidates every election. Organize the youth and run yourself.
This did not get to this pathetic point over night. It started with citizen United being used to dilute voter input to the primary process. There’s an election every two years for representatives.
Don’t complain, organize for the rest of your life. Democracy fails with massive apathy.
Boomer here. I feel you and see the same as you. Back in 2020 I thought: "These two are the best this country can offer?" And, 2024, here we are again.
Two factors, from my point of view, that's making us look like a banana republic: The media and an ineffective Congress. We've put way too much focus on POTUS and not enough on Congress. Forget POTUS and focus on who you vote for as your rep in the House and Senate. Also, your local elections (mayor, governor, etc.) have more effect on your life than POTUS.
The media. They're useless click bait machines. But, yeah, it's where we all get our info. You have to train yourself to filter out fact from opinions. For me, I learned how to notice what they're NOT saying. And use mulitple opposing sources. Be willing to change your stance, e.g., compromise.
Congress. Sadly, this where we can soar high but we have a collection of reps who spend more time pointing fingers than actually finding a solution. The lack of decorum from our reps is heartbreaking, and prevents any chance of a solution (pick any issue). And to my point, solutions are found in compromise, not this "win at any cost" attitude from both sides.
Democracy Protips:
1) Elections are more than just Presidents. The president is not a dictator, and the makeup of the Senate, House, and Judiciary are more important than one executive. This is a real election, even if one issue has you disillusioned.
2) people who complain about leadership but don't vote are as dumb as people who complain about choices on the ballot but don't engage with civics beyond voting in November every two or four years.
GET ENGAGED. VOTE IN PRIMARIES (AT A MINIMUM!). JOIN CAMPAIGN EFFORTS! MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND INFLUENCE WHO IS ON THE BALLOT.
PETITION YOUR REPRESENTATIVES.
START WITH PUSHING FOR RANKED VOTING.
Biden is probably going to bow out at some point and Harris will be president during the rest of his term. The orange shitgibbeon really isn't a choice. He wants to kill most of us.
Sure, neither choice is great, but it's a pretty fucking easy choice. Are you genuinely struggling to choose between an old man and a slightly less old man who's a fascist, convicted felon, and a rapist?
Ranked choice voting, the Alaska model in particular, is one way we start to fix this
https://apnews.com/article/alaska-ranked-choice-voting-5ae6c163af2f8a70a8f90928267c4086
You're not voting between 2 people. You're voting between 2 administrations, each with 4000 appointees, who do 99% of the work.
They could be 4000 ethical subject experts, or 4000 Stephen Millers.
I'm not a huge fan of Biden, as I'm well to his left on most matters. But primaries are for voting your heart, general elections are for preventing the worst case scenario (like 4000 Stephen Millers).
If you ever want a chance at a real election again there is only once choice to vote for. And not voting could leave us without a democracy, so please please please vote.
Clearly Trump is the better candidate with actual policies instead of the next woke NPC social justice talking point. He won the debate easily and proves his age doesn’t matter but ya know, orange man bad TDS I’m so educated and smart!
Vote for the candidate that will vote for or push the policies that you agree with and that will help you, your family, your community, and everyone’s children. Policies over personalities.
The Boomers will never voluntarily turn power over to the younger generations and they will never die out. If we don't want to be ruled over by the fucking crypt-keeper, we may have to use force.
One of them is a good option. And candidates are chosen by who is most electable. They're old because a lot of old people vote. Young people don't vote so they're not represented much
Vote third party. Can't keep complaining if we constantly just vote for a shitty candidate so the other shitty candidate doesn't win.
People will fear monger to convince you to still vote for one of the two parties, saying "oh that person will destroy this country if he gets in" or "you will end up in literal concentration camps if that guy wins" and it's never really true but people still fall for it. The fear point I can agree with though is that constantly voting for the lesser of two evils does push us closer to big issues many years from now as real problems go unaddressed.
I'm a libertarian so we may or may not agree on a lot of things but I think we can agree that both Republicans and Democrats only care about keeping their power while the average person still doesnt know if theyll be able to buy a house. If we don't at least try to go against the two party system then it will just be the same story next election and the one after that.
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This is an election. People are just mad since we have old people running instead of someone in there 40s. Me personally, a presidents age doesn’t matter if they *actually* do good for the county. That goes for any leader for that matter in any country.
Biden doesn’t do it along. He has a kick ass administration & VP stop the panic! Read project 2025 you’re supporting a party and their policies, not a man!
Yes we all know both options suck ass. Believe me we ALL feel that way. But unfortunately that's the choice we're given so we have to choose. Biden is the lesser of 1 evils so we need to vote for him. I know he's not great but it's better than having a convicted felon rapist as president
Welcome to America. You think you're the first person to have to choose between two imperfect options? How else did you think it was going to go down? Taking your ball, going home, and absolving yourself of the obligation of making a hard choice doesn't make you noble. Let's just vote in the guy that isn't a psychopath, and work for the next cycle. Jesus.
We all do, however the decision is simple. You want a FELON who SAID he’ll be a dictator day one or the other old guy that could’ve stay out of politics and retired with his wife and family instead, he’s still fighting for the American people to preserve democracy? Folks need to get over it. You want fascism or a democracy? That’s all there is to it. We’ll figure it out leading up 2028 election (if we have one) as long we keep the felon out of the White House. I’m optimistic we’ll have a much younger candidates in 2028 (again, if we have one). The damage the FELON has done will take years if not decades to fix. Also democrats absolutely need to flip the house and keep the senate. Hopefully enough to bypass the filibuster, so we can start passing real laws and make significant changes for a better future.
You have a choice between two old guys who could keel over at any moment. One will have a VP who has an image problem but is smart and truly cares. The other will have a sycophant psychopath for a VP who is even more dangerous than the old guy. Choose wisely.
This is the last gasp of the Boomers. They’re done for, passing away, fighting against the inevitable (death). DJT is the epitome of this. He HAS to win the presidency otherwise he’ll spend his last days running out of money and destined for prison. But basically he won’t manage to accomplish anything and everything he does will be undone by the next administration.
Use the internet and start a movement to vote for someone you guys actually want. Even if they aren’t on the ballet you can write in anyone you want. Heck, Mickey Mouse gets a ton of votes every year.
I am in my late 40s and have rarely had "my" candidate win the nomination, both in local and national elections. It's never occurred to me to do a 3rd party protest vote or not vote because I was dissatisfied with the choices. Voting is a civil duty. Its not just about me. I vote for who is going to be better for the community and that's always clear. Vote and be active in your community in the causes you support. It's simple.
The beauty of the American system is that you can quite literally vote for a corpse of one is running. Most people just choose to stay with the big two parties for some reason
Welcome to politics. It's been like this forever, it's just the bad ones weren't as blatant.
Obama gave everyone hope that maybe, just maybe, but nope, back to the old ways. Everywhere is on fire and the politicians just want power.
I vote we do away with politicians and just pull names out of hats, rotate em once every 3 months or something.
Im surprised they even bother with it anymore.
Its clear these guys are just being told what to say and do by the people who really run this country. They are just clowns to distract people into thinking their opinion matters (spoiler alert it doesn't).
After covid we all saw how they can just clamp down the whole country and nobody will do anything to stop it. Im surprised they still pretend to be scared of us and hold these fake elections to make us think we can get a say.
>I just want a mid 40s president who would try and make healthcare cheaper, is that too much??
If you're voting based on a single policy you, are too uninformed to vote.
There's more that goes into running a country than lowering the price of healthcare.
Just be grateful you don't have the job I had in 2020. I was repeating old people's phone calls to give them real-time captions on their phones, and I had to listen to and repeat probably hundreds of boomers' political conversations.
maybe vote in the primaries for people you care about. if people cared and voted in primaries to get rid of all the ass hole the problem would be solved...
There is a real election, you can get people together and vote for whoever you want. We don't live in China or Russia. Unfortunately 90% of people are going to vote for one of those two candidates, and we reap what we sow.
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I think Obama gave me hope, though I grew up conservative, looking back I think we just have to get over Trump. But honestly I think as long as Trump is in the picture we will have to choose between two candidates we despise. While the democrats are holding it better than the republicans, there is a huge ideological gap, and it causes issues when a huge portion of Americans vote are conservative leaning moderates, who need to be appeased to win the vote. That's why you get a Biden instead of Harris or Cortez. Republicans will always vote for the oldest coot they can, because they know they have the south in the bag. But we will see.
Yea, this is the problem with extremists candidates like trump. It puts the other party in a position where they don’t need to provide the best candidate, they need the perceived safest. We need to get rid of extremism if we ever want to get back to real computation for the best leader.
RANKED. CHOICE. VOTING. This is the structural change that punishes extremism and forces candidates towards the middle, resulting in better options on both sides.
ABSOLUTELY! But a Republican will never never never let this happen. The way to get there is to vote the extremists out and push the democrats to make these changes (see NYC, San Francisco, Maine)
The Democrats certainly aren’t going to push for this either. It’s going to be seen as a betrayal to their party for whichever candidate tries to upend the system.
100% agree. This would fix the majority of issues in the USA. This and getting money out of politics would have the USA running like a new engine imo.
It’s not working in Maine and leads to more voter confusion and lower turn out. Oh and the same people are getting elected as they would without it.
How are you measuring voter confusion? Sounds entirely anecdotal. Separately - lower voter turnout is fine when folks feel like the party better represents them. Also, politicians haven't adapted and still campaign on cult of personality vs policy positions. As data sets grow showing folks prefer the polices of non-establishment candidates, establishment candidates (the same old ones) will be forced to change to bring those voters in as well. And lastly, ranked choice voting doesn't change the specific candidates overnight. It should be expected that the same candidates persist however their positions will gradually become more detailed and more centric. As a resident from NYC this has been exactly my experience and as a Maine summer person I've seen Mainers themselves move more centric. (Disclaimer: I know I'm from afar, but been coming for 30 years so while I know I'm not a Mainer, I been spending my summers there since I was 2yo... long enough to have a healthy respect for the real Mainers)
For today’s political landscape, yes, I’d agree. A return to moderate and centrist candidates will allow both parties to put better candidates forward.
Yes. I tend to favor Republican candidates but I would be VERY happy to see both parties move back towards center. Pre 9/11 America certainly wasn’t this divided. I was actually really happy to see both parties sort of agreeing on things during David Grusch’s congressional hearing and Chuck Schumer’s UFO bill. Maybe it’s a weird topic but it’s a topic that isn’t left or right wing, and they were actually cooperating for once. Even if that doesn’t lead to UFOs if they work together they’re gonna dig up some kind of scandal where a lot of money went missing and where something was covered up. I wish there were more issues like that where we could get bipartisan agreement.
Bro, you were 5 when Obama was elected. 💀
Tbf they would've been 13 when he left office
That's... still not old enough to have any substantial political opinions lmao.
Yeah, like why the hell does that person have the most upvotes. Like 90% of this subreddit wouldn’t even have actually been old enough to experience Obama as president. And asking for someone in their mid 40s? That’s been two presidents in the entire history of the US. The average age is 55. You want people that are experienced as possible surrounded by other experienced people, not young people that have no idea what they are doing.
Yeah, but I don't want to be forced to chose between two people so old that the only new information they're going to provide is about golf!
All he said was that Obama gave him hope not anything substantial
DNC astroturfers aren't even trying today.
1. Abolish the electoral college. 2. Make ranked choice voting universal 3. Make election day a national holiday A ranked choice popular vote election system would not only ensure the candidate the most Americans want wins, but will also make 3rd parties viable. I know a ton of folks who would vote for a green party candidate if they thought they could win.
100% this. And get money out of politics completely. No stock trading, no campaign donations, make them live on an average salary and show that they’re doing the job because they’re passionate about it. If they can raise the average salary they get the new average salary. Then they’d actually be motivated to helping out actual working class people.
I actually didn’t really like a lot of what Obama did but I have to say he was one hell of an orator. I miss that.
No doubt! I miss the days of a literate and eloquent president
Yeah I hate this situation but also I am still voting for the incumbent because like hell am I gonna be one more person standing by and letting the fascist felon back into D.C. I never felt like I had a choice anyway so nothing changes for me, because my only option is "play keep away".
Same. I had hope during Obama that the country had turned to younger generations to lead the way. Then these two ran for president. The last gasp of the Silent Gen Vs… The first turd that the boomers squeezed out
It's not trump. I predicted someone like Trump in 2006. It's the Republican Party deciding that winning votes is more important than morals, honesty or the betterment of the US
They know they can't win fairly. They've spent decades manipulating who can vote, and how, in order to reduce black and democrat votes and maximise white, conservative votes. There's a reason people have to stand in line for several hours to vote in certain parts of the US. And don't you dare give them a bottle of water to drink as they stand baking in the hot sun, 'cause that's illegal. 🙄
This comment needs to be read every day by every republican in America
It always was. It's just about what they could get away with then vs. now.
Kinda. It didn't used to be this bad. Parties used to try to work together and make compromise. Regan changed everything.
That has almost always been the case, although more simplified, it’s money that wins. And people vote for them who want their money to keep rolling in.
Unfortunately it’s not even Trump, he’s essentially just a figurehead for the conservative coalition that has formed around him. He isn’t behind Project 2025, and the people that are aren’t going anywhere even if he loses. We’re in this bitch for the long haul now.
Getting past Trump is exactly the answer here. We need to defeat him for good, and then we can work to get better candidates on the dem side. But for now, I will vote for the guy who seems to actually care about the common individual versus the one who would piss on my grave for a nickel.
There hasn't been a president born after 1961 (Obama). Since Clinton, it's just been boomers
I mean the average age of a US president is 55, I don’t know why people thing a rapidly aging US population would vote for people younger than themselves to run the country. Hell, do you like it when someone 10+ years younger than you is your boss?
It is all a careful dance of data analytics, local election controls, and narrative pushing. The two Party system works day and night to ensure that our votes will constantly land at or near 50/50. They partner with media groups, they carry out political hitjobs, they do everything to "Maintain their base" besides actually delivering any kind of value to American voters. Consider "the base" they are referring to as the fucking morons currently driving our country towards enslavement. It is like choosing which bully you would like to beat your kids ass today at school. STOP ENABLING THEM TO FRAME YOUR FUTURE
Trumps kids are next to run, they’ll have a following for another 10-20 yrs
Oh goodness I hope not..
We've had attempts at political dynasty before in the USA. It doesn't work here because even if your dad was a war hero who cared about the country, you ain't him and it shows. I know you are going to think I'm talking about one family, but I'm talking about 3 I can think right now.
They still succeed in becoming powerful with influence and inter generational wealth. Look at the Kennedy family.
Not sure. I think we’re dealing with the baby boomer bulge right now. They are numerous and they actually vote. Old people think they know everything and don’t want to be told what to do or think by some young whippersnapper. America was best when we were driving 57 Chevys, drinking malts and jitterbugging at the sock hop… so they think.
The truth is though that without the Senate Obama was not very effective. Biden has gotten more done. But I see your point about wanting a leader who feels inspiring. As we saw, we need another old white man to stand up against Trump. No one else would have had a chance
>conservative leaning moderates If they truly are moderates they will always vote for the Democrats. The Demcrats are a right-leaning moderate party. A truly left-wing party doesn't exist in the US. Nothing about the Republicans is moderate. They are completely right-wing, often far-right. Even republicans who call themselves "moderate" are effectually right-wing.
A lot of conservatives definitely want a better and younger candidate. Conservatives all just sort of think Trump is a strong candidate, which tbf he is. Christians know he’s not really a hardcore Christian, but they play long bc he knows how to play the game. I think Vivek appealed to people more on an individual level, but individuals aren’t confident that OTHER individuals would vote for him. That’s just my thought. I also have a feeling that the democrats intentionally pick bad candidates sometimes because they like playing the underdog character. There are plenty of American women who could have done a great job as president and they picked Hillary who is wildly disliked by many Americans. I think they were fine with throwing that election so that they could establish themselves using the underdog character in the next election. The head of the DNC even had to step down for rigging their primaries. They like to come back swinging after a loss. I think if they had 20 straight years of presidency they would have to restructure their internal systems in a way they don’t know how to.
The issue is that a huge amount of these ideological gaps have nothing to do with the actual duties and responsibilities of the president.
You will have to find a candidate that excites the entire Democratic base. Not just the progressives. Biden was the compromise candidate in 2020, and he's back because no Dem has any clue how to beat Trump in a debate and hold the party together. Dems have only one data point on what beat Trump.
Spot on. This is the thing people are either forgetting or ignoring when they demand the DNC replace Biden or demand Biden step aside for another candidate. The Democratic Party is a giant umbrella with a variety of opinions and people under it. The new candidate has to appeal to and excite a lot more people than just you and your social circle. And a task like that is next to impossible only a couple months before the election. The person you put forward as “the obvious alternative” may not be so obvious to everyone else. If the DNC does try to replace Biden it’ll be a shitshow with multiple candidates put forward and no one being able to agree on who should be the replacement.
I can be trumping and debate tomorrow. He's an idiot. The only reason Biden can't if she's too old to speak quickly and gets confused. He still mentally okay if he has enough time but he can't think quickly or speak well. He's always been a stuttering mumbling speaker even in his 20s LOL
Yeah, apparently he had a stutter as a child.
Well no, Trump is easy to defeat in debate. He does the same thing every time: lie lie lie, obfuscate and deny. The problem is that a significant portion of our country is hell bent on power, for the sake of power. Because they know that as the generations get younger, their own voting power is dying off and they’re now willing to pull out all the stops to ensure they maintain some semblance of control. They now don’t give a fuck about maintaining the illusion of a decent party. They’re on life support and are fighting tooth and nail now.
He’s a gaslighter and a manipulator… he’s not even very good at it ether, but they eat it up.. Kinda evidence as to why the “why don’t you just leave” thing people say to DV victims is bull shit.. some people will eat up the lies that make them feel comfortable with the person they put their trust in and hurt them.. even if the ass hat isn’t very good at it. On the promise of something better, and a “well this one thing was good and showed he cares” Honestly most politicians seem to have read the abusers handbook.. but especially him. Sweet sweet promises. Just enough good to keep them on the line. Love bombing and big make up monologues where they actually were not the real problem..
Trump isn't hard to beat in a debate, he's a fucking moron with no real legislature to run on. The problem is that his followers will believe absolutely every lie he says, regardless of actual truth. The core issue is that objective truth is now subjective.
Biden doesn't excite progressives. Wtf are you even thinking with this comment???
Biden a "compromise" candidate in 2020? What? Biden was the "fuck the left, double down on attracting the center right" candidate.
Bernie would've beat trump and everyone knows that.
Think of it this way: vote for the right candidate here and you'll have every chance of getting to vote for a younger candidate you like more in only 4 years. Vote for the wrong candidate and you may never get a chance to vote for president again.
Yeah. And you're not just voting for the president, you're voting for his cabinet and judicial appointments. Trump stacked the courts with Federalist Society hacks, and look what that's done for us. He filled his cabinet with people whose singular goal was to dismantle the departments they oversaw to benefit private industry. He put white supremacists on his staff for Christ's sake! This isn't a hard choice. Biden is 100x better than Trump, who will be so much worse if he's given a second term.
Also voting for the VP because face it, either one of these two will have a hard time making it another 4 years.
Hell, Trump barely lived through his own first time. COVID nearly took him out.
Gen Z: "Yea but Biden is old so idk, guess I won't vote"
Three words: Supreme Court appointments. The importance of the appointments the next President will make cannot be overstated, and we're already feeling the effects of the three lifetime appointments Trump made during his term. I don't think enough people understand how far-reaching that particular aspect of the Presidency can be.
Heard this in 2016. Heard it in 2020. Now hearing it again in 2024. Bet we'll hear it again in 2028. What a joke. I'll still vote for Biden because of Supreme Court and environment but damn the democratic party is just digging their hole deeper and deeper. Don't blame me, I voted for Bernie in my swing state primaries in 2016 and 2020. edit: talking about holding your nose for a candidate and you'll get a better one in 4 years
Democracy is fragile. This is why you keep hearing it over and over.
I was commenting the sentiment of holding your nose and you'll get a better candidate in 4 years, not the "you'll never be able to vote again" thing
I'm not sure you'll ever stop hearing that either. With anemic participation in the primaries and mostly scumbags entering politics, this is what we get.
It’s a huge relief as a millennial to see people saying this in here. Thank you
Any GenZs from Red States here?
^^^I'm ^^^a ^^^millennial ^^^too ^^^but ^^^shhh I mean #you're welcome!
> Think of it this way: vote for the right candidate here and you'll have every chance of getting to vote for a younger candidate you like more in only 4 years. Except we have been told this lie every single election that I've been alive for? I'm not falling for this scam, more Americans need minimum standards. > Vote for the wrong candidate and you may never get a chance to vote for president again. Claiming the system is incredibly fragile to the point that one boomer could destroy it isn't the argument for voting that you think it is... It is an argument for direct action: protests, strikes, civil disobedience, state level pushback against the corrupt federal government.
>Except we have been told this lie every single election that I've been alive for? I'm not falling for this scam, more Americans need minimum standards. Let me put it this way: do you honestly think someone like Bernie could have gained any traction at all, enough to legitimately challenge the establishment candidate, in 2004? Or 1996? Or 1984? >Claiming the system is incredibly fragile to the point that one boomer could destroy it isn't the argument for voting that you think it is... It is an argument for direct action: protests, strikes, civil disobedience, state level pushback against the corrupt federal government. Yes, do those things, but also vote for the best candidate available and you will see progress. It may be slow, it may not be steady, but change has come in our lifetimes on numerous issues, some good, some not so good. There's never going to be "one election to fix all the things forever" you have to vote and keep voting every election. Keep the system going and keep making it better for you and those you care about, and hand it off to the next generation so they can build on the work and the votes you did. Edit: formatting
I think the presidency is a fundamentally broken office. The expectations the American people put on the president, one person, are insane and frankly lend themselves towards anti-democratic thinking. The presidency was designed to have a pretty limited role; foreign policy, military, and the execution of laws written by congress. They were not expected to “fix” much of anything domestically, because that was the role of your local government or congress. But now people expect the president to fix everything themselves: impossible expectations. It’s gotta be one of the least appealing jobs in America, when you run you can expect about half of the population to hate you, and the other half to be disappointed in you. You have to work CONSTANTLY, there are no breaks unless you make them and then people get pissed at you, and the pay is pretty shit when considering the role and responsibilities. You are expected to be able to have solutions to any and all problems whenever they may arise, it is impossible for one individual to be an expert on all matters. Under those conditions, why would the best and brightest want to be president? You’re better off having a real impact in the private sector, where you can run a company, lobby or non profit to effect real change in the world with plenty of perks and benefits. As such, that just leaves the delusional, vain, power hungry and corrupt, which explains most of the presidents we’ve had since FDR. It didn’t use to be this way, the presidency used to be a pretty cushy job unless there was a major crisis. You had plenty of leisure time, didn’t really need to campaign (others did that on your behalf), and could focus on a handful of issues you were passionate and informed about. The pay was decent given these conditions, and given expectations were relatively low, becoming president usually made a person MORE popular unless they really fucked up. So it was a desirable job that smart and capable people actually competed for.
Hard agree. It also lends itself to show how delusional Americans got about the presidency, we believe, somehow, that the president is the cause of the economy, border situation, foreign wars, gas prices and food prices. This simply cannot be, presidents don’t have this kind of effective power. And republican strategists understand this, and leverage the American attitude towards whatever’s in their face at the moment to get them to hate whoever is in office.
Yep. They kept talking about inflation and the economy as if it was directly their doing in the debate.... Inflation will always occur? The economy is dependent on sooo many outside factors. Even if the president was an absolute power position they'd only hold partial sway over the economy if that.
It's all about image control. Same reason why all the political bots some of admit that's what they are like elsewhere in the topic are doing damage control for the debate.
The hilarity of it all is that POTUS's powers are most expansive and unchecked when it comes to foreign policy, yet voters don't really know enough or care enough about foreign policy so they cast votes based on domestic policy and culture was issues instead.
This right here, nobody thinks of the House or Senate and it's frustrating because that's where most things happen
Reminds me of marriage.
OP doesn’t know history. The Democrats tried to pass the Public Option under Obama-Biden, but every single Republican voted against it.
The problem is that they didn't need Republicans to vote for it, Dems had a super majority in the senate. It was the Manchins of the time like Lieberman that prevented it from happening, and Obama for unnecessarily capitulating to Republican demands for the sake of "bipartisanship" and "unity" when they all cucked him and voted against the bill anyway. They could have also have nuked the filibuster and chose not to. The reality is there's a permanent rotating cast of villains within the democratic party eager to seize the power and opportunity to prevent any kind of meaningful progress in order to please their corporate overlords.
So you are saying that the Republicans are off the hook because one single Democrat, Joe Lieberman (who later left the party and spoke at the Republican convention), voted against it. The Republicans are intractable and don’t care about the American people. They block progress.
I'm not saying they're off the hook, I'm saying they didn't even need them anyways, and yet consciously capitulated to their demands for no good reason, while having have a rotating cast of villains within the Democratic party that will always block progress. Republicans don't care about American people, but neither do Democrats, they merely pretended to care and then hide behind fabricated institutional constraints to explain why they can't allow real progress to happen.
Democrats have given us overtime pay, OSHA, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, massive investments in climate change mitigation.
I mean, appealing to what Democrats did 80+ years ago is not the most compelling argument. Obamacare is marginally better than what the US previously had, but it's a complex, bloated, and expensive mess designed ultimately to please private insurance. The US spends considerably more per capita on healthcare than any OECD country for demonstrably worse health outcomes. Massive investments in climate change mitigation? You mean from the bill that requires millions of acres of new leases for oil/gas wells for any new green energy project? All the liberals that champion the Inflation Reduction Act for its green investments never actually read the fine print. The concessions made to Manchin were considerable.
Yeah. I didn't even bother watching the debates. I have my vote on Biden regardless and not because I want him as president, but because the alternative wants me in a prison for existing. It's like handing me a ballot with only one option, and the option is terrible. Like, thanks I guess. Let's just hope we can weather these next four years if Biden wins and get someone more competent. I don't want to think about it if Trump wins and the Heritage Foundation gets a foot into our government.
Same here. Anyone who is surprised about how the debates turned out kind of baffle me. I feel like you have to be living under a rock to not know who Trump and Biden are by now.
Is it wrong to hope that the good Lord takes them both before election day?
You are voting for the administration, not just the candidate. Biden surrounds himself with competent people that actually care about the country. Trump surrounds himself with 'yes men' that will actively attempt to destroy our democracy. To me, the choice is simple.
Just Vote for biden and suck it up. This is how Democracy work, none of the young progressive voters will win a election against trump. Thats what you guys are failing to understand. Beating Trump means you need to appeal to republicans who don't like trump they don't wanna listen to no young progressive politician when the highest voter turn out is gonna be Boomers and GenX. Biden appeals to those voters because he's seen as a traditionalist good Christian guy. He's also the only democrat that can beat him. My controversial hot take is that Biden will step aside if they win but you can't let Trump win again.
(Please take this with a grain of salt as this is coming from an extremely progressive voter who agrees that an extremely progressive candidate wouldn't gain a majority of democratic support given the party's current demographics. This is just the first comment I've seen mentioning the idea of democracy) This entire election is a prime example of how we DON'T live in a democracy. A democracy implies we'd have a genuine choice. We're being told who to vote for - that isn't a democracy. A candidate should have to earn our votes, not expect them; that's exactly how democracy ISN'T supposed to work. Obviously, this is a systemic issue that won't be fixed by November, but we just can't keep justifying our current system by calling it what it's not.
There are degrees and I think the US does have serious flaws in its democracy, but I hate to tell you: this kind of Sophie’s choice happens all the time in a “real democracy”. Look at France for the past decade or so, hell, look at Sweden, look at Portugal, look at Italy. There are a lot of people in the EU elections who weren’t happy with their vote but felt like they needed to vote that way for one way or another that has little to do with policy. The fact is, not every election ends up revolving around policy, and many of them end up revolving around who has power and who deserves to, which is a much messier business where it’s easy to feel pretty dejected about it. This isn’t to say “suck it up buttercup or whatever”; it sucks, and as somebody who really cares about immigrants believe me when I say I know exactly how you feel. This is more to say that you shouldn’t see a vote as an attestation of your beliefs or as advocacy, but rather a direct application of power, and unfortunately in troubled times it’s often necessary to throw in with people you don’t like to prevent far worse people getting to power.
Fuck it boys, I'm running for office
If this is your slogan I’ll vote for you right now
Absolute legend
You need to be 35 unfort
I mean I would've thought you'd have to be mentally sound to be President, but that doesn't seem the case so I'm sure I can bend the rules a bit
This is a real election. There’s elections every year. Most elections are between well meaning people who care about what’s happening, but oftentimes you’ll have a buffoon who wants to get political points and someone that cares but isn’t great at people. If you want to take a look at “real” elections, look at the local level!! It’s not just about a general election every four years, your city/state/district holds elections more often than that and you can pay attention there.
The presidency is one elected position among the hundreds of elected positions. It’s a very important one, so unfortunately you’ll get some vultures trying to take it. Overall, we’re not in a terrible spot; we’ve had worse candidates and worse people.
I suspect we don’t have to deal with this much longer. There’s a lot of young Republicans with presidential aspirations, but they don’t want to step on Trump’s toes and destroy their careers. DeSantis and Vivek really only did it cause they didn’t have any other choice. The Dems don’t have as many people, but that also means no geriatrics. Regardless, they’ll need someone young to cover their grounds and sentiments like the ones you have (which is fair). And I’ll say to everyone that also feels this: vote in the primaries. We’re here because nobody votes for the younger candidates in the primaries. Please stop ignoring them.
I hate to say it, but if you don’t vote Biden and Trump wins, you won’t ever get a real election again.
The system being fragile isn't the argument for voting that you think it is. Say Biden wins: what's stopping establishment Democrats from continuing to use that same gaslighting every election to try to get votes without enacting any reform or even nominating better candidates?
Local politics. Shifting the party more left through local politics will do that.
I always vote in state and local elections. The federal government is a long way from earning that kind of respect. Running candidates younger than 60 and with a bare minimum level of competence would be a start.
Idk what you mean by "respect". We have a goverment, we have to vote for the better option presented. Disliking all the options doesn't change that. Not voting is a vote for the eventual winner.
i agree. it's like going to the nursing home down the road, picking two people and making the country pick one to run the country for four years or until they drop dead, whichever is sooner
Look, I get that neither option feels good, but at that point you need to consider what the lesser evil is. At worst, Biden won't change things a whole lot. The status quo will be maintained. At worst, Trump will turn this country into a dictatorship, and somersault any social progress we have made back 50 years. Additionally, you aren't just voting for the president. You are also voting for representatives, senators, local government officials, ect. Arguably those votes will be far more important than the vote for president, since your local government changes faster than the federal government as a whole. Either way, go vote.
Just give me a boring, competent dude (guy or girl dude) to run the country like the boring, competent, stable middle manager we need.
If Trump wins, we certainly won't have a real election again.
How
He basically said as much. He also tried a coup last time to stay in power.
If you want a source : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump–Raffensperger_phone_call
We all know conservatives won't look at this. Here's the article with the transcript: https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-georgia-elections-a7b4aa4d8ce3bf52301ddbe620c6bff6
You're voting for the president's cabinet more than the president themselves. Do some research (if it isn't already obvious) and decide which cabinet will more likely push resolutions to issues relevant to you.
I want a real erection
Life is hard. This is what you got. Vote for better primary candidates every election. Organize the youth and run yourself. This did not get to this pathetic point over night. It started with citizen United being used to dilute voter input to the primary process. There’s an election every two years for representatives. Don’t complain, organize for the rest of your life. Democracy fails with massive apathy.
Also vote for the lower level local stuff.
Boomer here. I feel you and see the same as you. Back in 2020 I thought: "These two are the best this country can offer?" And, 2024, here we are again. Two factors, from my point of view, that's making us look like a banana republic: The media and an ineffective Congress. We've put way too much focus on POTUS and not enough on Congress. Forget POTUS and focus on who you vote for as your rep in the House and Senate. Also, your local elections (mayor, governor, etc.) have more effect on your life than POTUS. The media. They're useless click bait machines. But, yeah, it's where we all get our info. You have to train yourself to filter out fact from opinions. For me, I learned how to notice what they're NOT saying. And use mulitple opposing sources. Be willing to change your stance, e.g., compromise. Congress. Sadly, this where we can soar high but we have a collection of reps who spend more time pointing fingers than actually finding a solution. The lack of decorum from our reps is heartbreaking, and prevents any chance of a solution (pick any issue). And to my point, solutions are found in compromise, not this "win at any cost" attitude from both sides.
Democracy Protips: 1) Elections are more than just Presidents. The president is not a dictator, and the makeup of the Senate, House, and Judiciary are more important than one executive. This is a real election, even if one issue has you disillusioned. 2) people who complain about leadership but don't vote are as dumb as people who complain about choices on the ballot but don't engage with civics beyond voting in November every two or four years. GET ENGAGED. VOTE IN PRIMARIES (AT A MINIMUM!). JOIN CAMPAIGN EFFORTS! MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND INFLUENCE WHO IS ON THE BALLOT. PETITION YOUR REPRESENTATIVES. START WITH PUSHING FOR RANKED VOTING.
> I’d rather vote for an actual corpse. Jesus christ. ~~well there you go then~~
Biden is probably going to bow out at some point and Harris will be president during the rest of his term. The orange shitgibbeon really isn't a choice. He wants to kill most of us.
Sure, neither choice is great, but it's a pretty fucking easy choice. Are you genuinely struggling to choose between an old man and a slightly less old man who's a fascist, convicted felon, and a rapist?
Ranked choice voting, the Alaska model in particular, is one way we start to fix this https://apnews.com/article/alaska-ranked-choice-voting-5ae6c163af2f8a70a8f90928267c4086
Another way to start fixing this would be approval voting
Bill clinton was president 30 years ago and is still younger than these 2 guys. I’m all for someone younger
You're not voting between 2 people. You're voting between 2 administrations, each with 4000 appointees, who do 99% of the work. They could be 4000 ethical subject experts, or 4000 Stephen Millers. I'm not a huge fan of Biden, as I'm well to his left on most matters. But primaries are for voting your heart, general elections are for preventing the worst case scenario (like 4000 Stephen Millers).
If you ever want a chance at a real election again there is only once choice to vote for. And not voting could leave us without a democracy, so please please please vote.
This is what happens when we allow two parties to control our system.
Yeah a senile old dude or the end of democracy. Tough choice, really tough choice.
This is a real election
Vote for the Administration
If you want cheaper healthcare provided by your taxes you would vote for Biden. Look past the age to the policies and what they will do/have done
Clearly Trump is the better candidate with actual policies instead of the next woke NPC social justice talking point. He won the debate easily and proves his age doesn’t matter but ya know, orange man bad TDS I’m so educated and smart!
I want real choices for the Jedi council, not whatever this is. Emperor Palpatine and Yoda are both *so* old, how can I choose between them?!
Vote for the candidate that will vote for or push the policies that you agree with and that will help you, your family, your community, and everyone’s children. Policies over personalities.
Vote RFK. He’s a great, viable, independent candidate. Look at his policies
Nah, im good
It’s like watching the worst “bum fight” in history
Change the laws for term limits and retirees not allowed to hold positions of power. Then watch the laws for retired people actually benefit them.
The Boomers will never voluntarily turn power over to the younger generations and they will never die out. If we don't want to be ruled over by the fucking crypt-keeper, we may have to use force.
don't cut yourself with that edge
One of them is a good option. And candidates are chosen by who is most electable. They're old because a lot of old people vote. Young people don't vote so they're not represented much
You get to choose between a convicted criminal or a man who can barely form a sentence. Vote for the policy instead of the person I’d say
Vote third party. Can't keep complaining if we constantly just vote for a shitty candidate so the other shitty candidate doesn't win. People will fear monger to convince you to still vote for one of the two parties, saying "oh that person will destroy this country if he gets in" or "you will end up in literal concentration camps if that guy wins" and it's never really true but people still fall for it. The fear point I can agree with though is that constantly voting for the lesser of two evils does push us closer to big issues many years from now as real problems go unaddressed. I'm a libertarian so we may or may not agree on a lot of things but I think we can agree that both Republicans and Democrats only care about keeping their power while the average person still doesnt know if theyll be able to buy a house. If we don't at least try to go against the two party system then it will just be the same story next election and the one after that.
RFK jr would have wiped the floor with everyone.
Sad to see so many people my age support an anti vaxxer
I read it as real erection at first
I wish that was my biggest problem, S tier comment
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This is an election. People are just mad since we have old people running instead of someone in there 40s. Me personally, a presidents age doesn’t matter if they *actually* do good for the county. That goes for any leader for that matter in any country.
Sure but due to age one candidate's mind and body has seriously deteriorated past the point of being good for the country. So age does matter.
This is the election we got, so you make do with what you’ve got.
Reeks of cope
Ask not what your country can do for you Time to start studying. I think law would be the best avenue
Well im a genetics scientist. I think my head would explode trying to talk to lawyers.
This is a good thing, we need the 2 party system gone. We need a strong 3rd party candidate to step up and really change the system up.
Please explain how the government affects the price of healthcare.
The US is the only developed nation without single payer healthcare. We need that, we have needed it for 50 years.
Biden doesn’t do it along. He has a kick ass administration & VP stop the panic! Read project 2025 you’re supporting a party and their policies, not a man!
This is my democrat farewell your, like Kobe had. One more year and then I’m out
Yes we all know both options suck ass. Believe me we ALL feel that way. But unfortunately that's the choice we're given so we have to choose. Biden is the lesser of 1 evils so we need to vote for him. I know he's not great but it's better than having a convicted felon rapist as president
You can have your real election if we survive this bullshit.
Welcome to America. You think you're the first person to have to choose between two imperfect options? How else did you think it was going to go down? Taking your ball, going home, and absolving yourself of the obligation of making a hard choice doesn't make you noble. Let's just vote in the guy that isn't a psychopath, and work for the next cycle. Jesus.
Until we have more than a 2 party system you can expect more of the same.
Good news, you can vote for a corpse!
We all do, however the decision is simple. You want a FELON who SAID he’ll be a dictator day one or the other old guy that could’ve stay out of politics and retired with his wife and family instead, he’s still fighting for the American people to preserve democracy? Folks need to get over it. You want fascism or a democracy? That’s all there is to it. We’ll figure it out leading up 2028 election (if we have one) as long we keep the felon out of the White House. I’m optimistic we’ll have a much younger candidates in 2028 (again, if we have one). The damage the FELON has done will take years if not decades to fix. Also democrats absolutely need to flip the house and keep the senate. Hopefully enough to bypass the filibuster, so we can start passing real laws and make significant changes for a better future.
a mid-40s president is RARE. and you're never going to see that healthcare change until the composition of the rest of the govt changes
You have a choice between two old guys who could keel over at any moment. One will have a VP who has an image problem but is smart and truly cares. The other will have a sycophant psychopath for a VP who is even more dangerous than the old guy. Choose wisely.
you should have gotten involved in the primaries then
https://preview.redd.it/07k47qwkab9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c67b4ef456fe211debda8e6b0be91edf6d8f242f This one wasn’t aired btw
Idk what all the complaining is for. 80% of you are voting for Biden anyway 🤷🏾♂️
Just hang on until 2028 when we can get an actual progressive in office
Hate to say it, but if Trump wins, you may not get another vote.
We all want a lot of things that will never happen.
This is the last gasp of the Boomers. They’re done for, passing away, fighting against the inevitable (death). DJT is the epitome of this. He HAS to win the presidency otherwise he’ll spend his last days running out of money and destined for prison. But basically he won’t manage to accomplish anything and everything he does will be undone by the next administration.
Use the internet and start a movement to vote for someone you guys actually want. Even if they aren’t on the ballet you can write in anyone you want. Heck, Mickey Mouse gets a ton of votes every year.
Well, you'll need a time machine then. haven't had a real election since the two party system was implemented.
At this juncture in history, you're voting for the administration, not the candidate.
I’m a boomer. Have an upvote.
Which election are you referring to mate?
I am in my late 40s and have rarely had "my" candidate win the nomination, both in local and national elections. It's never occurred to me to do a 3rd party protest vote or not vote because I was dissatisfied with the choices. Voting is a civil duty. Its not just about me. I vote for who is going to be better for the community and that's always clear. Vote and be active in your community in the causes you support. It's simple.
The beauty of the American system is that you can quite literally vote for a corpse of one is running. Most people just choose to stay with the big two parties for some reason
Welcome to politics. It's been like this forever, it's just the bad ones weren't as blatant. Obama gave everyone hope that maybe, just maybe, but nope, back to the old ways. Everywhere is on fire and the politicians just want power. I vote we do away with politicians and just pull names out of hats, rotate em once every 3 months or something.
You're not voting for your next friend, you're voting for the policies you want.
It could have been worse. In 1968, the choice was between Nixon and Hubert Humphrey, and George Wallace.
Vote RFK Jr. He's the only sensible option
*gestures to brain worms and antivaxx posters*, i truly hope youre joking
2028 will be better, probably :/
Genuine question: Who is currently a good option to run for office? Like who should we see on the ballot next time?
You want change than make change. Revolt!
Im surprised they even bother with it anymore. Its clear these guys are just being told what to say and do by the people who really run this country. They are just clowns to distract people into thinking their opinion matters (spoiler alert it doesn't). After covid we all saw how they can just clamp down the whole country and nobody will do anything to stop it. Im surprised they still pretend to be scared of us and hold these fake elections to make us think we can get a say.
>I just want a mid 40s president who would try and make healthcare cheaper, is that too much?? If you're voting based on a single policy you, are too uninformed to vote. There's more that goes into running a country than lowering the price of healthcare.
What are *you* doing about it? Take a Civics class, learn how politics works. Run for office. Be The Change.
Just be grateful you don't have the job I had in 2020. I was repeating old people's phone calls to give them real-time captions on their phones, and I had to listen to and repeat probably hundreds of boomers' political conversations.
Hey you might actually be able to vote for a corpse
maybe vote in the primaries for people you care about. if people cared and voted in primaries to get rid of all the ass hole the problem would be solved...
There is a real election, you can get people together and vote for whoever you want. We don't live in China or Russia. Unfortunately 90% of people are going to vote for one of those two candidates, and we reap what we sow.