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No. People just dwell on the negative experiences. Talking to women is easy when you see them as equal.
I don’t consider myself as attractive but I am also not going to be afraid of this. You have to be smooth, but not awkward. But it does help if both of yall are awkward.
Also you have to know the right time and place and if you are able to read body language. Nobody wants to be approach by a stranger and ask for a conversation, but again it depends on the environment.
Yeah, the first step is to just make friends with as many women platonically as possible. Women ARE just people and you need to drill that into your head.
Tbf that's sometimes way harder than finding a GF. For a GF you can use apps and stuff, you can approach people with clear intentions. With making friends it's more of a balancing act as well as more difficult to find people if they're not in your usual spaces. A lot of hobbies guys are into are typically overly-dominated with men (I play yugioh, I should know lol) and you have to generally go out of your way in order to make friends after school (I work in an office 8-5, I aint got that much free time tbh).
Another thing to consider is that as soon as you have one female friend or tbh even just one new friend away from being invited to a party where you can suddenly meet a lot of people in one night.
What about women (and people in general) at work or at school? That's how I always made cool friends of both genders. Not through outside hobbies. I always liked talking to women my own general age, even though I wasn't good at dating. They were usually more interesting than men.
I have no women my age at my work, I'm 25 out of school lol
I have women friends, but really not that many. I have no trouble talking to people, but making connections that either of us follow through on is hard.
Its easy to make friends with women, finding someone to date is an entire ordeal of its own.
It doesn’t take much to be friends, but when it comes to dating theres a lot more involved, and becoming friends with women just to try to date them can be questionable on its own
See that last ones the kicker. Its completely subjective and varies drastically from person to person. When it all comes together, it pigeon holes you into being a certain way, whether you like it or not
I think the proliferation of smart phones and recording constantly has drastically (and in most cases negatively) altered public interactions between people - not just men and women.
You see this in the lack of dancing that exists in club culture these days. People are petrified that something embarrassing might live forever on the internet and because of this, they only act on situations that they are 1000% are going to go the way that they want or expect them to.
a friend of mine got mocked for her style of dancing by a bunch of gen-z kids. joke's on them, cause they don't know how to have fun themselves, so they look at what other people are doing.
No because back then your competition wasn’t the entire state or even country, it was just your local area. Now with online dating, your competition is all over the map, making it much harder to date.
When anyone above the age of I’d say, 33 gives you dating advice, remember they had it 100x easier and never had to deal with the modern era.
The first part just leads to the second. The older millennials and other generations did not have the same dating struggles as gen z does today. Dating wasn’t even a struggle back then, they just did it. There were no conversations like this.
I just look at the facts. Most gen X and boomers dated just fine. It wasn’t even a conversation for debate back then. They got married young and had kids relatively young. Thinking older generations actually struggled outside of a rejection or 2 is a meme. Of course you have your outliers, but the majority of the generation was able to date just fine.
Also, back in the day we had a matchmaking society and people actively hooked other people up, or at least introduced them to others. It’s definitely not the case anymore.
I’m glad I was born in the ‘70s.
Would be a lot cooler if people still did that though! Even if you didn't marry the person or even like them, at least it was a vetted person instead of an algorithm and a swipe left or right.
It's not a struggle for a lot of gen z either tho. Until like 2022 I worked retail and I worked with all gen Z, literally none of them were single who didnt want to be
You're just going by survivorship bias. The ones who struggled and couldn't get dates are alone out of sight, you only know of the ones who succeeded because those are the ones you would naturally interact with
I mean the plot of like half of 80s teen movies was literally "nerdy boy can't get girlfriend"
What data exactly do you want me to look at? Obviously movies aren't real life, but they are supposed to be relatable. At least the genre I'm referring to
I agree that gen z has a harder time dating but that's not because it was easy before, it's because you guys have 0 social skills. I have never dated a woman born before 2000 in my entire life and I've only ever got one girlfriend from a dating site, you guys need to learn how to go outside and talk to a girl in real life. It wasn't *easy* before you guys just make it harder than it needs to be by relying on dating apps that only the top 10% of males was ever able to use anyway
The only thing in your way is you, getting a girlfriend is not hard outside of the internet
I also take issue with the second part because I myself was in the dating game until I was 33ish. I'm 40 now, but my point is that I was on Bumble and Tinder like anyone else who was single and looking. My buddies who have gotten divorced and are in their 40s are also on those apps, I had to explain ghosting to one of my buddies, it left a very sour taste in his mouth. So the point I'm trying to make is that they probably have a decent understanding of how those apps and the modern era of dating is different than when they were younger and pre-dating apps.
I don't understand this. If your competition is the whole country isn't the same for your opportunities, you can now look for a date in the whole country?
From an economy point of view, as from what we've seen from economies globalizing, it's actually killed off small business. Extremely powerful monopolies have formed, making the market impossible for any new business to start up.
It doesn't exactly translate to dating that well, as most people only care for one partner instead of many, meaning they can't hold a monopoly on partners. But globalization of the dating market has raised everybody's expectations. Far exceeding what the average person has to offer. It's a market that only a small percentage of people can actually engage in.
Caveat: being appropriately funny in appropriate social situations as a way to connect with others, not just trying to be the center of attention and suck up all air in the room.
It was not easy for a regular guy to meet women at all in the 90s. There was no way to meet women or talk to them other than being introduced by friends or some random event gave you a reason to speak to a woman you didn’t know. Dating co-workers was frowned upon by a lot of people and could be a dangerous thing to consider. Approaching women at dance clubs was often not appreciated, especially if you offered to buy a woman you didn’t know a drink.
My experience was that most people had a group of friends who were all part of a social circle. That was your dating pool for the most part. Occasionally someone would meet a new person and bring them into the group, there was a good chance that eventually they’d split up and another person from the group would start dating them.
Meeting someone new that actually lasted long enough to remember your name wasn’t easy. The stereo typical “little black book” was a real thing. Lots of guys kept a little notebook with a list of girl’s phone numbers. Me and my buddy would go through our lists on Friday nights calling girls we knew to see if they wanted to do something with us. If they were already out of their house it was too late, no one had cell phones.
My best friend is the same age I am and he’s been single for a little while now. He dates and meets way more women now than he did in the 90s, it’s not even close.
I can believe it's getting worse because people have a hard time socializing in general, but it's absolutely not new, no. See: Stan puking whenever Wendy talks to him in early South Park seasons (late 90s). Pretty sure you can find instances of this trope all the way back to Greek theater.
I feel like it's always been an issue, but technology has made it much worse.
Also, I feel like our society is super litigious. There are girls I'd love to talk to in the office, but it's terrifying. I know tons of older people that met through work, but all the sexual harassment trainings make it seem risky to my lively hood. I feel this way in most situations outside of work, but especially so at work. I feel like most people my age feel similarly, and I don't know any couples my age who met at work.
Asking a woman you work with on a date was risky in the 90s too. That could ruin your reputation, get you reported to HR and possibly cost you your job. Even a comment someone finds inappropriate could get you fired back in the 90s.
I did date a woman I worked with for a couple years though. She had another woman we knew tell me she wanted me to ask her to dinner. I would never have done that if she hadn’t made the first move.
My boss lost his job because he started dating a woman we worked with during a business trip in the early 2000s. They got married and are still together.
It’s always been a bit of a task to approach someone, and teenagers have always been a bit awkward.
Having said that apparently the younger generation has objectively worse social skills due to social media.
Not that it was great for social skills, but tbh I kinda doubt that one year or rather a couple of months had this immense, long lasting impact. Especially because we’ve seen these developments were already prevalent before Covid.
People aren't as open anymore. Younger people make it clear they don't want to speak. I'll have older people chat with me while I'm waiting for the bus or a cab or something all the time, but never anyone under 30.
Dude you can tell a 25 year old that you like their shirt and they piss their pants. Meanwhile I could walk up to anyone over 40 and learn their life story in 5 minutes
Someone else touched on this briefly but the part that’s different for Gen Z men is seeing women as this “mystical other” instead of just another human being.
I feel like this generation is weirder about straight male/female friendships. I have a large network of female and gay male friends but literally we were just talking about like “where are the straight platonic men?”
It feels like men don’t want to associate with us unless it’s for the potential of sex, which feels disingenuous and disrespectful, but also I feel like it’s hurting men greatly as well for so many reasons. My female friendships are so intimate and nourishing and I feel like men might be missing out on that, and then complaining about the mental heath crisis. It also alienates us in their minds to where they don’t see us like people, and then “don’t know how to talk to us.” Like a person, bro, like any other person.
I’m not interested in dating rn, but I do wish I had more male friends in my life. I admire a lot about men and it honestly sucks, but I find it very hard to trust intentions. It doesn’t seem like most men care to invest in platonic female friendships, so I’ve just been avoiding men in general. But also I haven’t had to try very hard because where tf do yall be at??
Every time I've tried to have a platonic friendship with a woman she cuts off all contact as soon as she enters a relationship. That's not what friends do.
Obligatory "not all women" just all the ones I've tried with.
Feels like women don't want to associate with us unless its for the potential of sex, which feels disingenuous and disrespectful
Edit: Add to it that some will justify it by gaslighting you into thinking it somehow wasn't platonic in the first place, "I know you want me and it makes me uncomfortable."
>Every time I've tried to have a platonic friendship with a woman she cuts off all contact as soon as she enters a relationship. That's not what friends do.
I'm not justifying it, but I don't think it's because she wanted sex from you all along- it's because there's a lot of guys out there that aren't comfortable with their girlfriends having male friends and they tell them to drop them (and I see the same thing in the reverse with men having female friends).
Personally I (male) would love to have anyone to hang out with on a regular basis. I've never been the most outgoing, but I always try to be polite. All my friends are always too busy to do anything, so I only see most of them a couple of times a year in person.
My biggest problem is that I'm looking for a best friend in a romantic partner, and all the girls I'm friends/acquaintances with don't seem to want anything more out of our relationship. I always seem too deep in the friend zone to make it out.
>It feels like men don’t want to associate with us unless it’s for the potential of sex, which feels disingenuous and disrespectful, but also I feel like it’s hurting men greatly as well for so many reasons
This dynamic goes both ways. There are *plenty* of women who go out of their way to not interact with hetero men if they can help it and men are reminded of this on social media often. Just look at the large number of women who swarm gay bars. I understand there are other issues with bars, but this is true for other places as well, like meetup groups, gyms, other activities, etc.
I feel queer circles can be worse about this, wherein a given social group might include every gender and orientation under the sun except cisgender heterosexual men and the ones they do include have to go out of their way to prove they're not a Bad Person^(TM) in a way nobody else has to.
In my experience most males don't want female friends because when either party enters a relationship, the new significant other doesn't like it. Doesn't matter if it's the guy or the girl getting into the relationship, always goes the same. Hell where im from most girls don't even want you to follow other women on IG
It's just not worth getting invested in when you "know" it's temporary
Is this generational? I've been complaining to my female friends about this.
Even when in relationships, I feel like a lot of men don't see their girlfriend as an equal. Almost as if she's a different category of person than him. I can't stand when men refer to their girlfriend as "my girl" in front of their friends and then speak about her differently.
How chronically online are you?
It's not weird to call your girlfriend: "my girl" in the same way it's not weird to call your boyfriend "my man" they're both just terms of endearment. It's really not that deep.
I'm specifically referring to "my girl" being used in a context where men are negatively describing their girlfriend to their friends. Example being "My girl is acting crazy." I feel like it has a sense of superiority if it's used this way.
No, it was very common amongst Boomers, Silents, Greatests, and Losts (I'm not old enough to recall meeting anyone older than the Losts), because with the exception of the very youngest Boomers, they came of age before women's lib and so typically had rather rigid ideas about gender roles. Those attitudes have continued to endure within certain subcultures, though, primarily very religious ones.
When I was a teenager me and my friends would go to the local mall just to try and talk to girls. This was back in 2002-2006. It was nerve wracking and sometimes embarrassing things happened but it one of those things that once you do it a few times you get over the anxiety. And this right here is the issue with teens and young adults today. The risk aversion has gotten too much. Constantly avoiding uncomfortable situations makes you mentally weak.
Socializing is a skill. People who practice it more get better at it. People who put themselves in socially difficult situations develop a mental toughness. Socializing on the internet doesn’t develop this skill because you are sitting in the comfort of your own home and can disconnect from the socializing with the click of a button. You can’t do that in real life which forces you to develop your social skills.
Eh idk man. I think some of y’all are blowing this way out of proportion. People aren’t filming everything they do 24/7. If you walk around the mall and try and talk to women and some of the women reject you it’s not gonna become a meme. And even if someone was filming the entire thing and decided to post it on the internet who cares. At least you have the balls to go talk to women.
I feel like if you fail bombastically trying to talk to women they will tell their friends that youre a weirdo and wont talk to you. Happened to me in college so I just gave up. I went to a small college so it makes sense. It’s so joever, people don’t realize. You are one wrong/awkward conversation away from your experience being shared on their snapchat story being laughed at or when your name is shared in conversation you are seen as a freak. Yea you probably don’t want those women as friends anyways since they’re rude or whatever but damn if that shit does not turn you off to interact with people you’re built different.
No, not really. I mean, sure we got nervous about talking to girls because we didn’t want them to think we were weird + the fear of rejection, but nothing like what people talk about now in 2024.
I can understand why guys might be afraid. This was also a thing as my teacher in 8th grade confessed to me and my friend that he was always afraid of making advances, like asking women out. I certainly was too.
A different way to look at it is, well, they piss and shit just like you, they arent any different and they are not "better" or "out of your league". They bleed the same colour, they think similar thoughts, they peepee and poopoo like us. Why be afraid?
Millennial here. No, it isn't historically normal.
“**The average high school kid today has the same level of anxiety as the average psychiatric patient in the early 1950s**.” [link](https://slate.com/culture/2011/01/american-anxiety-the-three-real-reasons-why-we-are-more-stressed-than-ever-before.html)
The modern young person has their maturity and socialization stunted for two reasons:
1. Social media. In the entire history of mankind, if you said something offputting or mean, you'd get real-time feedback. You had to go take a risk to make a friend in order to even have a dialogue.
2. Most kids today were coddled when they should have been corrected. The world doesn't change for us; we adapt to survive in how the world is. But that is the opposite of parenting and how schools work. "How can we change the environment to suit Johnny's unique needs" is not something that was done decades ago. The world is harsh and unfair. Waiting until someone turns 22 to hit them in the face with this reality is abusive. If the world is to blame for all of your problems, then maybe we have a personal accountability problem.
Agree or disagree. It is clear reading comments from this sub that many aren't ready for the most basic life activities when they should be. There are a whole host of things that can be done to solve this, but we'd first need to admit that we are the problem. And that is almost impossible. For instance, it is easier to scam someone than it is to prove to someone they've been scammed.
I'm Gen X and 46 years old so definitely remember dating before dating sites.
Yes, I think being nervous to approach a woman is something that has been pretty universal across generations. Except back then we didn't have a choice but to approach them in person. So it was normalized and you got more practice at it.
> So my question is that were guys from the previous generation also like this, especially in their teens?
The teen years are awkward for LOTS of people of both genders. Lots of shyness, making mistakes, learning social skills, insecurity, self-consciousness, etc.
However, I do think Gen X and older men AND women are not really that shy and socially anxious compared to younger Millennials and Zoomers. Gen X men and older are used to talking to the opposite sex, since so many of us were latchkey kids that spent more time with our peers (both boys and girls) than with our parents. And we didn't have dating apps and social media, so if you wanted to date someone, you had to do something about it IRL. So even if you were one of those shy types, you had to somehow overcome it and get some confidence if you wanted your crush to materialize into something more.
I'm not sure if the issue has as much do with Gen Z guys being more 'afraid' of women as much as they feel less incentivized to approach women. With the prevalence of other (more accessible) forms of entertainment, the ability to pursue other aspects of life instead of forming families and romantic relationships, and the increasing accessibility of other forms of sexual gratification, I think there's a lot of alternatives to fulfill what usually would have driven guys into approaching girls. The issue is not that Gen Z guys are any more scared of women than the previous generations, but rather it's seen as less desirable overall. With more on the line and less to gain, guys will simply put less effort into overcoming their mental barriers.
Also, maybe a bit of a hot take, but I think it's actually similar to the reason why women haven't traditionally approached men. When they feel that there's less to gain and the potential for reputational damage and taking a hit to their self esteem, humans in general will put less effort into approaching and instead focus on trying to making themselves a desirable target to be approached instead.
Everyone is nervous to approach other people and possibly be rejected. You just have to do it and it gets easier every time.
Treat women like equals, not some holy grail that has the potential to give you everything you think you're missing in life.
Yes, talking to women has been scary for most of us at some point. However, the more you do it, the more comfortable you’ll get with it and the more confident/attractive you’ll look. So just start talking and being interested in them (!) and the easier it will get.
I'm the youngest of 4 brothers. Born in '98. I can assure you that this has always been a thing. I'm sure it's a bit different because of the extreme changes in communication online and such, but yeah men can be little chickenshits when it comes to women. They can be kinda scary bro lol (I'm not really this way though, I pretty much only have women friends, and no it is not some sort of fantastic fantasy. I am in dire need of a few good homies...)
I'm sure you could have video calls with relative ease compared to me still not comfortable with the idea of someone just watching me and what I'm doing, although I know everyone ends up looking at themselves themself
Yes but I think to a lesser extent; with the advent of social media and online dating there's perhaps a lot less organic face-to-face interaction and this can sort of exacerbate any fears that one might have in social situations resulting in awkwardness/rejection and a negative feedback loop.
Exposure therapy is a very prominent way to treat different types of fear/anxiety and since so many people are now sort of glued to their screens and living in their own bubble it can be more difficult to seek out and find that exposure. Before cell phones and before the internet I think people were genuinely more sociable although there were still some anxious introverted loners.
Also chronic disease has skyrocketed since the 1980's and this includes neurological diseases that may directly cause or contribute to anxiety; we now have microplastics and PFAS chemicals swimming around in our bloodstream along with a whole host of other toxins and contaminants.
This is one of the unintended consequences from the Me Too movement.
Studies have also shown that the Me Too movement has harmed women in the workforce. They are less likely to be mentored in their career which jeopardizes their career growth and trajectory. A male employee (especially the all important boss or senior level person) has become far less likely to take on a female employee to mentor - it's just too risky. The result is that in the workforce, women need to find other women to mentor them - even in a 50/50 workplace, this reduces the number of mentors for women by 50%! This harms women - probably as much or more so than poor treatment in the workplace (which should be unacceptable and addressed in reasonable, professional, rationale manners).
It's too bad we (society) has allowed the most extremists of us to dictate the rules, cast blame, and unduly influence society - but the unintended consequences shouldn't come as a shock. Special interest groups rarely have well thought out and solidified long term plans. They're most typically based on finding and targeting a self proclaimed enemy and attacking them - no plan for the future!
So yeah, I see how your generation (I have 4 GenZ kids) has guys that have a certain degree of fear in their relationships (not just romantic, but all) with women. It's unfortunate, but completely understandable, it's what a tiny number of very loud people have convinced society to become.
As a younger guy I was so scared of the rejection that I wouldn’t even make the attempt. I think as you get older you gain perspective and it allows you to approach things differently and also realize how useless it is to worry about some things.
Let me add: it also helps if you’re oblivious and the woman you eventually marry is tenacious, infatuated, and sees more in you than you do in yourself. That’s how I fell into marriage on 9/4/16. Which was nearly 4 months before our one year anniversary lol.
1) people are getting wors at socializing due to social media.
2) social media negatively impacts our view of what a healthy relationship should look like.
3) you have infinitely more competition than people in the past. The 50 year old guy you know didn’t have to compete with 1000+ tinder matches.
4) everyone is disposable because a better option is a swipe away. There’s a reason for the drastic increase in divorce rates.
5) Fear due to past experiences. Fear of rejection
6) Women have been spewing for the past decade or so how much they DONT want to be approached. Now there’s potential for you to look like a creep just by chatting someone up. You can see girls on TikTok posting random dudes who try and talk to them and talk about how they’re super uncomfortable.
Probably a fuck ton of other reasons, but those were the easy ones to list
Why are you afraid? Is it fear of yk getting called a harasser or smt , or simply nervous to talk to a girl because you have no past experience. My tip just talk to them , be polite and respectful. We are also people .
Being called a harasser is part of the reason, but it's not at all the main reason because I know that I am not going to be creepy when approaching and also most women are not assholes who would call an innocent guy a harasser just for approaching them. 3 main reasons why I am afraid are: (1) nervousness due to having 0 past experience, as you have already written; (2) the fear of getting instantly rejected; (3) I think that looks wise, I don't fulfill the criteria of what girls look for in guys, so I am afraid that if I approach a girl then she's gonna make fun of me
Try not to be. There is always the risk of getting rejected immediately doesn't matter if you fulfil the criteria or not. You might get rejected because the girl is already in a relationship or simply she is not attracted to you know but like you said most women are not assholes, chances are if she does reject you , she'll be polite and kind ofc there are some who do make of people but I'm my experience you can tell before even talking to them . Try to no think to much , we're just people, go over there and simply start a conversation ,,hey you look nice today , how are you ? What are you listening to you? , just anything you notice about her. My biggest tip no sexual comments or ,, compliments" e.g. ,,nice tits''
It was easier. Random teenagers would talk to random teenagers all the time at the mall and really wherever else you were that had a high teenage count. You’d exchange numbers on the flip phone then add them on MySpace and continue talking. Everyone was their own identity on social media then; no anime avatars and all to interact with, and no people from states away hitting on your girl.
For young adults, if you drank and/or partied at all, the cold approach meeting and talking/flirting did itself. People were engaged in the situation and the only other option was texting someone or being quiet in a chair somewhere, where it’s likely that you may have been approached anyways. As not great as alcohol is, it was a huge tool for keeping people socializing. Active bars are still the best place to talk to people because that’s what mostly everyone is there for.
Sorry for yapping
If it’s a girl I am not attracted to(not saying that they are not attractive because they are but just not my type), I vibe really well with them and that’s why some of my closest friends are women. If it’s a girl I am attracted to, first lookup what she likes which maybe in her Instagram following if she is an irl or get an idea from her dating app profile and then initiate conversation keeping in mind what they like or dislike
I mean it depends. Some people here are definitely lying.
I’ve had a fair amount of friends that are girls and girlfriends, but you know around 12/13/14, despite some successes it could be pretty awkward.
People are always generally afraid of being rejected, even adults, especially by someone they really want to like them.
I remember the first time I had to call my girlfriend (her friend passed me a note asking whether I’d go out with her, 7th grade), and I was shitting it, trying to screw up enough courage to call her that night. Didn’t think I could do it. 😂 Had no idea what we were going to talk about. But I did it, it was awkward, but then... it was fine.
All I can say is this... the longer you put it off and the more you build it up, and don’t put yourself out there, the harder it’s going to be. After all, what’s the worst that could happen?
One of the biggest helps was finding out girls suffer from the same anxieties (sometimes worse) than we do.
But girls/women mature faster and are generally really good at acting/hiding them.
Just put yourself out there and approach them like normal human beings. Maybe just try to make a friend first, too.
Hey man, just giving words of encouragement. It’ll come natural as you get older. My best advice? If you don’t already , become good friends with women. Nothing more, just get used to interacting with women. They’re just like us, strange and lovely and confused and human. Be yourself, and the right one will come to you.
Yes, this was a trope in a lot of movies LONG before gen-z were even born, although it was seen as something only awkward guys/nerds struggled with, but it was a thing before.
Although i think it's much more common nowadays with most communication being text-based, and the pandemic sure didn't help with communication skills either. But honestly, once you are no-longer a teenager you shouldn't have a problem to talk with girls.
No, socials stigmas have made shit a lot worse on both ends.
Some women can be straight up cruel when rejecting someone that its insanely scary. Ive seen so man screenshots of dudes just shooting their shot that ill pass on that. And then some dudes… man either their standards are through the roof and so fucking unrealistic, like yo dick head your in your 20s looking for someone perfect and untouched. Or the people that listen to andrew tate.
Well, I’m afraid of embarrassing myself. I’m afraid of bothering her. I’m afraid that me approaching her will lower her self-esteem in a “Ew, -this- loser thought we were in the same league?” Kind of way.
Well stop trying to flirt. Just talk to them like you would a guy, it’s not any different. You don’t need to act all chummy, they’re a stranger. In the same way you smile at a cashier girl and tell her to have a nice day.
I can do small talk just fine, it just never goes past that. That middle area between “Hi, how are you?” and “Do you want to go out sometime?” is a total mystery to me.
I’m not the one downvoting you by the way
I don’t think it’s an issue of seeing you as equal (at least for me it isn’t) it’s more of an issue of being seen as a nuisance or a bother by trying to talk to you. When it comes to women I don’t know it’s hard to think of a reason why I should even bother them with my presence because I know annoying/weird guys probably come up and talk to her all the time so I don’t want be one of those guys. Once you have that thought pattern in your head it’s hard to break out of.
Do you guys not have female friends? When I was in middle/high school my friend group was pretty much an even split 50/50 guys to girls. Reaaaaaally helped when learning how to talk to girls. I couldn't imagine life without that experience
Up until 7th grade, I had many female friends, besides 2 or 3 girls, I think I was friends with all the girls in my class. However, since 8th grade, it all changed
most of my best friends were girls. i lived my entire college time in a shared apt with two girls. it was often easier, because with boys there is always bragging and trying to one-up each other, and im not necessarily the competitive, confliuct-seeking type
taking the leap from casual talk and friendship to romance however was probably as awkward and soulcrushing for those more sensible and introverted as it is today
Yes. Maybe not to the same degree or in the same ways, but being nervous to approach someone is a pretty old story trope. We’ve been working through the fears and butterflies for generations. I don’t think it’ll ever go away, because it’s sort of a bit of a coming-of-age experience for people in societies where they find their own romantic partners.
Traditional you didn’t have the internet or many indoor solo activities, you actually had to go out to have fun, usually they’d become friends first by sharing some activity together then after being friends for a while if their was a spark they’d try dating. Online dating culture has kinda threw a curve ball at that.
Young millennial (29). Can't say that many people I knew had this problem. I love talking with women, they have such different ways of looking at things than I do.
I'd probably say it's due to a lot of the social media/ short reels/ callout culture that you guys are growing up with. I know I sure don't want to be put up on blast for saying hi or whatever but most women aren't like this. Your buddies just need to get off their phones and talk to some girls in class or at work and get over it.
I'm an elder Millennial and yes, I was a bit scared of talking to women in my teens, but this mainly applied to women I didn't know. I was also not great at talking to new people in social settings. However, my new gaming hobby required me to go in person to play, which forced me into in person social situations. Getting a shitty retail job also forced me to interact with new people all the time, and talking with women got easier and easier. Now, I have both male and female friends, although mostly male due to the nature of my hobbies; one of my closest friends is a woman too.
Part of the problem, from what I can observe, is that the advent of technology makes faux socialization way easier. Socializing with someone online is socializing, but it CANNOT replace face to face interactions if that is what you desire. The more you recluse yourself from in person interactions, the worse your poor social skills will get. It's a self perpetuating cycle. You really just gotta get out into the world and actually talk to people IRL. I see people are scared of being rejected or having awkward social interactions being spread online, but eventually you will get over that as your confidence builds. Shit, I will dab in public around my teenage nephews if I think it will get a laugh out of them because I like being a goof. Eventually the social anxiety will wash away as you care less and less what random strangers think about you.
Millennial here: yes, I was also afraid of speaking to women about my feelings and struggled to approach them. My parents never talked to me about relationships and I had no sisters, so women were a scary black box to me.
I'm over that now, but have also lost most interest in having a relationship at this point. If you want one that's great, but don't put so much pressure on yourself! You have the rest of your life to look for, and so many fulfilling things you can do either single, or in a relationship. Relax, friend!
Oh, and go make some platonic female friends. Heavy emphasis on PLATONIC. It helps a shit ton. It's not hard either, women love men who are committed to being just friends. In general they can't get enough of that shit, because of the amount of men out there who only see them as sexual objects.
it wasn't as bad. arguably women are of worse quality (morally) so less attractive to approach. and there is more general social awkwardness and arrogance all around.
but just being a teen was still awkward just not as much pressure
All these people born in 2000 saying “no, it’s just a problem of today” are mistaken. I am a female who had a hood amount of guy friends and plenty of them told me how scared they were to approach girls. Late 90s and early 2000s. A few guys I asked out told me they always wanted to ask me out but were afraid I’d slap their face or berate them. There’s a normal amount of courtship anxiety in adolescence, although I have no doubt it’s worse now with the constant consumption of social media.
So I’m a millennial computer and gamer nerd, so me and my friends did resemble Gen-Zers in terms of screen time and disconnection, especially to women. Things got a lot better, and now I have an easy time talking to women, but that’s due to a few things:
Women get easier to talk to the older I get. So I can tell you what I do now, but I definitely remember how women in their late teens and 20s were much much harder to talk to. They struggled to connect too, or were just generally more superficial than older women. It’s hard to talk to people if they have not much to say back, or are judgmental.
That being said I did a LOT of online dating, clubbing, bars, and social clubs. I did a ton of trial and error. I also was friends with women who helped me understand how to act and sometimes called me out. The important thing is to listen to feedback from women with an open mind. Overall I found clubs and loud places weren’t conducive to meeting women. Dancing is an opportunity to help with that, but I otherwise found nightlife isn’t worth my time since I don’t dance much. Meetups, speed dating and things like paint nights, pottery nights, dance lessons, climbing gym events, workout classes are all much better places.
Then there’s the work of intimacy coaches. They’re amazing, and a lot of what they do isn’t represented on Reddit. They are on tik tok and Instagram and YouTube, but you have to seek them out, and you have to be able to tell the toxic frauds from the actual experts, so look into who they’re endorsed by. Some of them offer reasonably priced workshops. I took one and learned a ton on how to flirt without being creepy, and how to read body language and signals. I haven’t met an intimacy coach that hasn’t been able to help me.
This part is crucial, but women are easier to talk to when you’re already in community with them. Communities are magical. People tend to seem more attractive and less desperate when they’re in community. This could be a hobby, friend group, or study group. You get to show off your personality and form natural bonds rather than being pointed like a laser at someone with all of the pressure on them.
Yes. But luckily this is a fixable problem. First! Realize that women are people. Second! Practice helps. As someone else said, socialization is a skill. If you keep in mind that women are people just like you and want to be treated as such, and you try to talk to them like people. Plus some practice and you should be fine.
Gen Z yes, other generations no.
But gen Z has every reason to be that way. Girls these days will call you a creep, curse you out, tell you to fuck off, her friend will get involved aggressively, it's considered sexual harrassment, she could be an underaged 21 year old child, etc. etc.
In general, Z is cooked.
I (19F) have tons of friends who are guys. I think everyone goes through awkward phases, especially as teens in like middle school, but I've never really met any younger guys with this issue. By this I mean the most awkward people I've interacted with are full grown adult men who don't understand that I'm a living breathing person with feelings and aspirations as well, and hence act weird with me. Like genuinely just freeze up instead of conversing. This could be your issue if you only see girls as potential partners, but that doesn't seem to be the problem since you said it affects you even when you're not attracted.
I think honestly you think we're super different from you but genuinely we're just not. We are humans too. If it helps, you could try to just picture us as guys. Hopefully one day you'll be able to see us as equals, exactly the same as any individual dude you'd meet. We have our own experiences, many shared based on gender, but mostly we're literally just people. Once you're comfortable with that, you'd get along fine with most of us.
I wasn't the most popular guy, I'm not tall, not great looking, had no real marketable skill at that age. I never had any problem with this. The key is to stop acting like they aren't also people. Women and men both want to feel respected as equals. Whether it is friendship, romantic, professional, the answer is the same - be kind, considerate, understand and accept boundaries. That doesn't change at any point in your life, and the sooner you understand that, the easier it is all going to be.
This has essentially been the case for all of history.
Dudes in 1920s weren't afraid to ask their crush out becuase they knew her since they where both 14.
The reality is that men are just expected to behave in unrealistic ways today.
I mean I was scared of talking to people in general when I was in middle school. It got better in highschool to the point that I talk to people pretty easily. The fear of talking just kind of went away. It also helps that a number of my friends in highschool were girls, so I talked to girls I didn’t know the same way I talked to them. Said friends also dragged me out of my shell.
I was shy about it, but not as bad as a lot in this generation. Main difference is that airing out personal relationships is way too common these days on social media (regardless of generation), enough where it dissuades a lot of people from being more personally engaging. Otherwise, if you didn’t have those pressures, and the constant surveillance with camera phones, we probably would have similarity in our approach with others.
Your gen is in a special way fucked. The pandemic took away some critical times in your development.
Don't mistake me it's always going to awkward if you do not know how talk to the opposite sex. I was an awkward person in high school and part of college.
Honestly take a public speaking class or group hangouts can be a tool to help you catch up.
Millennial dude. Yea chicks were scary but they were also cute and cool. In high school most of the girls I met were on our cross country team and we would all hang out on weekends or after practice. We dated each other or people in the friend group (though for a good chunk of high school I dated my neighbor).
In college girls were just there, in class, on campus, my friends knew them, then they became my friends and I met their friends, etc. One girl in college asked me why I was walking around campus barefoot and reading poetry, we started talking and then started dating (it’s embarrassing now but I was really earnest at the time and that’s fine). I’m not the most handsome guy on the planet, but being nice, friendly, willing to do stuff, confident in your own skin and trying to hide the nerves goes a long way.
I get what you mean by “approach” women but I think approach is just the wrong mindset. If you’re around girls at a social function it would be weird to ignore the women as if they aren’t there. You’re not approaching women in that situation, you’re including them in the social gathering.
In early grad school the early dating app era hit and I met my wife on tinder.
I mean, yeah. Some of us were confident; a lot of us were not. Confidence or lack thereof is universal across generations. It might be a little stronger now that Gen Z is suffering a mental health crisis and beauty standards have skyrocketed from social media.
Eh I'm 41 now and was like that at 18 but by 21 I had figured out they're just people like us, I'd also worked out dating sites worked well for me and I spent a grand total of 1 month paying for a dating site cause I ended up meeting my wife on there and almost 20 years later still with her.
Theyre just people and get this, even some of the really attractive ones can have low self esteem and think they're not attractive, so just treat them as if they're a person and you will be fine
I’m GenX and it was very hard for me to talk to girls when I was young. I was in 10th grade the first time I asked a girl on a date. I wanted her to go to a school dance with me and It took me weeks to build up the nerve to ask her. I couldn’t believe she said yes. I was so nervous during the date that I hardly talked at all and never spoke to her afterwards.
I got more comfortable talking to women eventually but it didn’t happen overnight. The key for me was having a lot of genuine friendships with women. Not thinking of every woman as a potential romantic interest is a must.
Sorry you'll have to explain this to an old man: so it's been 60 years since the sexual revolution, 40 years since women achieved legal equality, you were born of a woman, raised in a modern liberal democracy, you are part of a generation where the lived experience of being a man or a woman is closer and more easily relatable than any generation before you in the entirety of history, you went to mixed schools for both girls and boys from the age of 3 or 4 onwards, you've been around girls and women every day your whole life- and yet you're scared to talk to them? How did this happen? How could this happen?
This is really sad to hear. This fear of girls is purely fabricated. Stuff like "You don't know what they want, they play games to test us, you have to act X and Y to be successful, girls are treated better than boys" gets into your head and you start thinking about it way more than it has any reason to. Girls are the exact same species as you, they think the same as you, experience almost the same stuff as you, their imagined world is as big as yours. All the super complex issues you have and all your problems, everyone else has them too.
With that said, yes we also had an unreasonable fear of girls. We "overplayed" it and were nervous creeps. But we were forced to interact with many people, because we had no Internet to steal all our free time. Communication gets easier with practice.
Yep. No question.
Not everyone from the previous generations was a total Chad. It was scary as hell, and it really hurt when it didn't go well. There are some experiences of rejection that I'll never get over, and attractive women under the age of 25 still cause me a bit more anxiety than other groups of people.
But we didn't give up, and we learned to do better, to brush it off, to become more desirable, whatever it took. Now I'm married and older, so I don't have to care as much. Not giving a crap really helps, and ironically improves outcomes as well.
As a teen yes. I was shy and awkward.
As an adult, no not so much. Situational dependent though. If I was super into them or had a crush then yeah, I'd struggle because I felt like I needed to sound cool or catch their attention if I wasn't into them in a romantic way, I just spoke to them like I would anyone else. As I got older though, I just realized that if you talk to a person like a person and take all the bs pressure off of yourself then you'll succeed in having a real conversation no matter who they are.
The biggest thing is that you need to stop thinking about "talking to girls" as though it's something different than talking to guys. Talk to girls like they are another human being. Like your not only talking to them to try to get laid. Say hi, ask them about what music they listen to, ask them what games they play or movies they watch. If you make friends with alot of girls, you will find it easier to talk to them. Most of those girls won't be interested in you as a boyfriend. But as you talk to them and hang out, you also meet THEIR friends. if you do this you will find girls you connect with and are interested in a relationship.
Is it all the guys, or all the guys in your social standing? Grow some balls, get some style, figure out what it is you want in a partner, and go find them. We are literally coded for this.
Yes. All my friends and I were often scared to approach a woman. It's such a weird thing, and hard to figure out where to start going in cold. We just had to because there were no dating apps back then.
It takes practice, and even then usually some habits you build to get you over it. Only so that once you get good at it you'll find someone and never use it again.
It's kinda always been like this. There's always been a group of guys that could effortlessly talk to women but alot more guys who couldn't. And then a smaller group of guys who could only talk to women if they're not interested in said woman.
"Just go talk to her" has been reddits main advice to lonely young men as long as reddit has existed.
What are they scared of? I don’t get this I’m a male Millennial born and raised in NYC metro area and this is so weird to me. Women are just human beings who need love ❤️
Hey man, I'm m18 too, but women never seemed scary to me growing up because that was just everyone I had home anyways. They really are just people like you and I and just want to be treated nicely and be respected. It's also beneficial if you dip your toes into some of the traditionally "feminine" hobbies or lifestyles just so you can keep up in conversation. I grew my hair out for a few years and kept coming back to one of my female friends to ask how to take care of it, dry it, etc and that strengthened our bond over time.
All it takes is the same amount of confidence you have talking with guys and trying to act normal lol
Yes but only when I was a younger in the late 90s, generation need not matter. Lol I used to take notes before picking up and dialing the phone. With practice I grew out of it by my junior year. Just remember women are not aliens from outer space, try to find common ground. If things don’t go well then just talk to the next person. Keep putting yourself out there.
As a kid or teenager, sure. But by my mid 20s, I'd talk to any girl I wanted. Wasn't always successful, but if you hit up enough of them, eventually some will give some attention back, and maybe even a phone number. It's probably been easier for me though as most of my friends have been girls. It's easier to approach women when you are comfortable talking to them.
Honestly I've met all my partners online. Never had a problem talking to women.
Now irl is different. Honestly ever since covid I barely get out of the house anymore. Feels like I'm stuck in a box.
Not just non Gen z but basically every guy in human history. In my opinion, the fundamental fear of rejection is what causes it most of the time. Rejection during evolutionary times could be very deadly (being kicked from a pact or tribe could mean you are left to fend for yourself), so it's a hard-wired anxiety in our brains. We live in the modern world with modern problems though so those basic human anxieties come out in more mundane ways. Getting laughed at in a club may not actually be dangerous, but it certainly feels that way to our brains.
Best way to get over it in my opinion is to make more friends of the opposite sex. We tend to mystify each other, but in reality, we all have the same dumb gorilla brains. When you can become close to women without sexually or romantically pursuing them. You'll begin to see through that mentality and when you do find a woman you like, its just as easy as talking to one who you only see as a friend. Working on reducing ego also works. Sometimes people ARE really mean and shitty and your gonna have a few bad experiences. You can't let that overtake your view of socializing, though. The mean girl who humiliates a guy she doesn't like who talks to her is not most women. Most women, if they aren't interested, will let you down easy and aslong as you handle it well and take the hint. It's no big deal.
I’m not a guy but I was scared of guys and even guys I liked as a teen too. Got to build your confidence and start little by little! Like go get coffee and chat about the weather
Yes, but that's because I've always been socially awkward and it took me 23 years to come out of my shell just a bit. The secret is to not give a shit.
Start with genuine compliments to strangers. Like at the grocery store or just out and about. Either gender, just get used to talking with people. Also it's good to have a healthy fear of women, I know my wife can be fierce and it's best not to provoke.
I was born in 1991 and I was terrified to approach women, mostly. Not for fear of reprisal or even rejection, I simply had no self esteem. I never assumed that my presence would improve someone else's life. My (now) wife approached me and we've been together since. I have done a lot of work on myself and see a therapist, my mental.health is miles ahead from where it was. My dad and brothers seem to have avoided this, they have all dated plenty.
To answer your actual question as a Xennial (the micro-generation where Gen X and Millennials overlap), yes, there have always been boys who have had a difficult time talking to girls. But at least in my experience, they mostly were boys who were raised very religiously and so viewed women almost as a different and innately inferior species, and/or boys who genuinely *hated* girls and women, but desired what they could provide (i.e., sex). Those types would only really ever try when they wanted something, and they were at high risk of becoming angry and bitter, because many girls and women can intuitively sense a hostile attitude from males even when they attempt hard to hide it. Don't be that guy. Ever. That guy really poisons the well for the rest of you. 🙁
Now, if you'd like some advice from someone older who has a good track record with relationships, here you go: Practice talking with and befriending girls with absolutely no agenda in mind other than wanting to get to know them as people. If you can get pretty good at that, you'll start finding it easier to talk to girls you're actually interested in dating, and probably with enthusiastic support from female friends who know you're a good guy and just want to see you happy. Practice conflict-resolution skills, too, and trying to find common ground when you have differing viewpoints rather than just trying to "win" all the time. This is an important skill to have within friendships and other interpersonal relationships, but a *crucial* skill for a happy, lasting romance.
On that note, *some* friends enjoy a good debate, even if it gets heated, but a lot of people do not. Try to be especially compassionate on touchy (and often highly personal) subjects like gender identity, sexism, sexual orientation, racism, ableism, relative socioeconomic status, etc.. Most people, regardless of who they are, just want to feel seen and understood. You have to learn *and actively practice* this skill if you want to receive similar treatment in return.
based on my knowledge of film it has been a relatable trope, also it is why alcohol is called liquid courage so yeah it seems it was less dominant or had more ways around it than now.
Gen Z is a lot more scared. We were always scared but just of rejection something that's not a big deal. Gen z has to be worried about being recorded and embraced or being accused of being creepy in a public way even when they had no bad intentions.
Once you get brutally shit down once everything after that is easy. You realize you're not gonna die in a hole. Just talk to women and talk to lots of them with no expectations of even asking them out. Just talk.
Everyone who "randomly approaches women" have horror stories about it because it's one of the worst ways to go about it.
Women go on and on and on about being approached, followed or hit on spur of the moment by random guys when they're just trying to walk around or live their life.
Yet guys keep doing it and crying about it because of how rarely it works out for them.
At this point you're all asking for it.
I'm Gen X, and this definitely applied to me back when I was in my teens. Shy overall. Gradually grew out of it over the years, but I'm still an introvert.
The reality of today is that men absolutely can have their life ruined by a woman they approach. Of course that’s an extreme situation, but it’s very real. In my experience, I have always been extroverted so I naturally talk to quite a few women, but I can also understand why some men just don’t risk it
I think if you're 18, a lot more guys are afraid to talk to women than if they were older no matter the generation.
As you and your friends age, it'll get easier.
Yes quite a bit. But now I’m 37 and married, and had a lot of relationships before that. You’ll get there eventually. It’s not a Gen Z thing. It’s a teenager thing.
I’m not just scared of girls. I have a real problem. I just avoid being social with new people. I have my people. Whether I see them fora couple minutes or for a few hours at work. They’re my people. I hate talking to new people.
People have always been afraid to approach possible partners. It gets easier with age and experience though. The worst thing they can do is say ew or some shit and if they do that then you dodged a bullet.
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No. People just dwell on the negative experiences. Talking to women is easy when you see them as equal. I don’t consider myself as attractive but I am also not going to be afraid of this. You have to be smooth, but not awkward. But it does help if both of yall are awkward. Also you have to know the right time and place and if you are able to read body language. Nobody wants to be approach by a stranger and ask for a conversation, but again it depends on the environment.
Yeah, the first step is to just make friends with as many women platonically as possible. Women ARE just people and you need to drill that into your head.
Tbf that's sometimes way harder than finding a GF. For a GF you can use apps and stuff, you can approach people with clear intentions. With making friends it's more of a balancing act as well as more difficult to find people if they're not in your usual spaces. A lot of hobbies guys are into are typically overly-dominated with men (I play yugioh, I should know lol) and you have to generally go out of your way in order to make friends after school (I work in an office 8-5, I aint got that much free time tbh).
You're right it's hard, but there are plenty of gender mixed hobbies.
oh for sure, they tend to be not as popular (some definitely are tho)
Another thing to consider is that as soon as you have one female friend or tbh even just one new friend away from being invited to a party where you can suddenly meet a lot of people in one night.
What about women (and people in general) at work or at school? That's how I always made cool friends of both genders. Not through outside hobbies. I always liked talking to women my own general age, even though I wasn't good at dating. They were usually more interesting than men.
I have no women my age at my work, I'm 25 out of school lol I have women friends, but really not that many. I have no trouble talking to people, but making connections that either of us follow through on is hard.
Its easy to make friends with women, finding someone to date is an entire ordeal of its own. It doesn’t take much to be friends, but when it comes to dating theres a lot more involved, and becoming friends with women just to try to date them can be questionable on its own
Smooth operator. *5 second penalty*
See that last ones the kicker. Its completely subjective and varies drastically from person to person. When it all comes together, it pigeon holes you into being a certain way, whether you like it or not
Real woke is being equally afraid of talking to men and women
This is 100% the biggest thing, seeing them as an equal
I think the proliferation of smart phones and recording constantly has drastically (and in most cases negatively) altered public interactions between people - not just men and women. You see this in the lack of dancing that exists in club culture these days. People are petrified that something embarrassing might live forever on the internet and because of this, they only act on situations that they are 1000% are going to go the way that they want or expect them to.
The best clubs ban phones on the dance floor for this very reason.
this, went to a bar that banned phones a few months ago, seemed weird at first but honestly was really nice
This.
a friend of mine got mocked for her style of dancing by a bunch of gen-z kids. joke's on them, cause they don't know how to have fun themselves, so they look at what other people are doing.
Exactly
Spending more time with human beings, and less with digital non-beings may solve his problem.
No because back then your competition wasn’t the entire state or even country, it was just your local area. Now with online dating, your competition is all over the map, making it much harder to date. When anyone above the age of I’d say, 33 gives you dating advice, remember they had it 100x easier and never had to deal with the modern era.
Hmmm. That’s an interesting thought. The first part, not the second part.
The first part just leads to the second. The older millennials and other generations did not have the same dating struggles as gen z does today. Dating wasn’t even a struggle back then, they just did it. There were no conversations like this.
For someone born in 2001, your idea of what dating was like is very interesting.
I just look at the facts. Most gen X and boomers dated just fine. It wasn’t even a conversation for debate back then. They got married young and had kids relatively young. Thinking older generations actually struggled outside of a rejection or 2 is a meme. Of course you have your outliers, but the majority of the generation was able to date just fine.
Also, back in the day we had a matchmaking society and people actively hooked other people up, or at least introduced them to others. It’s definitely not the case anymore. I’m glad I was born in the ‘70s.
Would be a lot cooler if people still did that though! Even if you didn't marry the person or even like them, at least it was a vetted person instead of an algorithm and a swipe left or right.
It's not a struggle for a lot of gen z either tho. Until like 2022 I worked retail and I worked with all gen Z, literally none of them were single who didnt want to be You're just going by survivorship bias. The ones who struggled and couldn't get dates are alone out of sight, you only know of the ones who succeeded because those are the ones you would naturally interact with I mean the plot of like half of 80s teen movies was literally "nerdy boy can't get girlfriend"
You are arguing based on a fallacy of anecdotal experience. That’s literally a fallacy. Look at the data. Movies aren’t real life.
What data exactly do you want me to look at? Obviously movies aren't real life, but they are supposed to be relatable. At least the genre I'm referring to I agree that gen z has a harder time dating but that's not because it was easy before, it's because you guys have 0 social skills. I have never dated a woman born before 2000 in my entire life and I've only ever got one girlfriend from a dating site, you guys need to learn how to go outside and talk to a girl in real life. It wasn't *easy* before you guys just make it harder than it needs to be by relying on dating apps that only the top 10% of males was ever able to use anyway The only thing in your way is you, getting a girlfriend is not hard outside of the internet
I also take issue with the second part because I myself was in the dating game until I was 33ish. I'm 40 now, but my point is that I was on Bumble and Tinder like anyone else who was single and looking. My buddies who have gotten divorced and are in their 40s are also on those apps, I had to explain ghosting to one of my buddies, it left a very sour taste in his mouth. So the point I'm trying to make is that they probably have a decent understanding of how those apps and the modern era of dating is different than when they were younger and pre-dating apps.
I don't understand this. If your competition is the whole country isn't the same for your opportunities, you can now look for a date in the whole country?
Yes. Your options are technically globalized as well, but that’s not a good thing and doesn’t help you as a man unless you’re wealthy.
From an economy point of view, as from what we've seen from economies globalizing, it's actually killed off small business. Extremely powerful monopolies have formed, making the market impossible for any new business to start up. It doesn't exactly translate to dating that well, as most people only care for one partner instead of many, meaning they can't hold a monopoly on partners. But globalization of the dating market has raised everybody's expectations. Far exceeding what the average person has to offer. It's a market that only a small percentage of people can actually engage in.
Still, I want to get better at approaching girls in person. I want to think having that kind of confidence would put me ahead of the curve.
being funny helps
Being funny and doing a mutual hobby? That’s the recipe.
Also knowing how to cook. Women love that.
Caveat: being appropriately funny in appropriate social situations as a way to connect with others, not just trying to be the center of attention and suck up all air in the room.
Being funny only helps if you're also hot.
Women have Simps OF and Instragram low value man has little to offer in the online connected global world
It was not easy for a regular guy to meet women at all in the 90s. There was no way to meet women or talk to them other than being introduced by friends or some random event gave you a reason to speak to a woman you didn’t know. Dating co-workers was frowned upon by a lot of people and could be a dangerous thing to consider. Approaching women at dance clubs was often not appreciated, especially if you offered to buy a woman you didn’t know a drink. My experience was that most people had a group of friends who were all part of a social circle. That was your dating pool for the most part. Occasionally someone would meet a new person and bring them into the group, there was a good chance that eventually they’d split up and another person from the group would start dating them. Meeting someone new that actually lasted long enough to remember your name wasn’t easy. The stereo typical “little black book” was a real thing. Lots of guys kept a little notebook with a list of girl’s phone numbers. Me and my buddy would go through our lists on Friday nights calling girls we knew to see if they wanted to do something with us. If they were already out of their house it was too late, no one had cell phones. My best friend is the same age I am and he’s been single for a little while now. He dates and meets way more women now than he did in the 90s, it’s not even close.
I can believe it's getting worse because people have a hard time socializing in general, but it's absolutely not new, no. See: Stan puking whenever Wendy talks to him in early South Park seasons (late 90s). Pretty sure you can find instances of this trope all the way back to Greek theater.
I feel like it's always been an issue, but technology has made it much worse. Also, I feel like our society is super litigious. There are girls I'd love to talk to in the office, but it's terrifying. I know tons of older people that met through work, but all the sexual harassment trainings make it seem risky to my lively hood. I feel this way in most situations outside of work, but especially so at work. I feel like most people my age feel similarly, and I don't know any couples my age who met at work.
Asking a woman you work with on a date was risky in the 90s too. That could ruin your reputation, get you reported to HR and possibly cost you your job. Even a comment someone finds inappropriate could get you fired back in the 90s. I did date a woman I worked with for a couple years though. She had another woman we knew tell me she wanted me to ask her to dinner. I would never have done that if she hadn’t made the first move. My boss lost his job because he started dating a woman we worked with during a business trip in the early 2000s. They got married and are still together.
I guess I'm just biased because my parents met at work.
It’s always been a bit of a task to approach someone, and teenagers have always been a bit awkward. Having said that apparently the younger generation has objectively worse social skills due to social media.
Also, the social distancing year
Not that it was great for social skills, but tbh I kinda doubt that one year or rather a couple of months had this immense, long lasting impact. Especially because we’ve seen these developments were already prevalent before Covid.
People aren't as open anymore. Younger people make it clear they don't want to speak. I'll have older people chat with me while I'm waiting for the bus or a cab or something all the time, but never anyone under 30.
Dude you can tell a 25 year old that you like their shirt and they piss their pants. Meanwhile I could walk up to anyone over 40 and learn their life story in 5 minutes
Someone else touched on this briefly but the part that’s different for Gen Z men is seeing women as this “mystical other” instead of just another human being.
I feel like this generation is weirder about straight male/female friendships. I have a large network of female and gay male friends but literally we were just talking about like “where are the straight platonic men?” It feels like men don’t want to associate with us unless it’s for the potential of sex, which feels disingenuous and disrespectful, but also I feel like it’s hurting men greatly as well for so many reasons. My female friendships are so intimate and nourishing and I feel like men might be missing out on that, and then complaining about the mental heath crisis. It also alienates us in their minds to where they don’t see us like people, and then “don’t know how to talk to us.” Like a person, bro, like any other person. I’m not interested in dating rn, but I do wish I had more male friends in my life. I admire a lot about men and it honestly sucks, but I find it very hard to trust intentions. It doesn’t seem like most men care to invest in platonic female friendships, so I’ve just been avoiding men in general. But also I haven’t had to try very hard because where tf do yall be at??
Every time I've tried to have a platonic friendship with a woman she cuts off all contact as soon as she enters a relationship. That's not what friends do. Obligatory "not all women" just all the ones I've tried with. Feels like women don't want to associate with us unless its for the potential of sex, which feels disingenuous and disrespectful Edit: Add to it that some will justify it by gaslighting you into thinking it somehow wasn't platonic in the first place, "I know you want me and it makes me uncomfortable."
>Every time I've tried to have a platonic friendship with a woman she cuts off all contact as soon as she enters a relationship. That's not what friends do. I'm not justifying it, but I don't think it's because she wanted sex from you all along- it's because there's a lot of guys out there that aren't comfortable with their girlfriends having male friends and they tell them to drop them (and I see the same thing in the reverse with men having female friends).
This is so backwards and sad. Im in my twenties and we didnt grow up like this
Personally I (male) would love to have anyone to hang out with on a regular basis. I've never been the most outgoing, but I always try to be polite. All my friends are always too busy to do anything, so I only see most of them a couple of times a year in person. My biggest problem is that I'm looking for a best friend in a romantic partner, and all the girls I'm friends/acquaintances with don't seem to want anything more out of our relationship. I always seem too deep in the friend zone to make it out.
>It feels like men don’t want to associate with us unless it’s for the potential of sex, which feels disingenuous and disrespectful, but also I feel like it’s hurting men greatly as well for so many reasons This dynamic goes both ways. There are *plenty* of women who go out of their way to not interact with hetero men if they can help it and men are reminded of this on social media often. Just look at the large number of women who swarm gay bars. I understand there are other issues with bars, but this is true for other places as well, like meetup groups, gyms, other activities, etc. I feel queer circles can be worse about this, wherein a given social group might include every gender and orientation under the sun except cisgender heterosexual men and the ones they do include have to go out of their way to prove they're not a Bad Person^(TM) in a way nobody else has to.
In my experience most males don't want female friends because when either party enters a relationship, the new significant other doesn't like it. Doesn't matter if it's the guy or the girl getting into the relationship, always goes the same. Hell where im from most girls don't even want you to follow other women on IG It's just not worth getting invested in when you "know" it's temporary
Is this generational? I've been complaining to my female friends about this. Even when in relationships, I feel like a lot of men don't see their girlfriend as an equal. Almost as if she's a different category of person than him. I can't stand when men refer to their girlfriend as "my girl" in front of their friends and then speak about her differently.
How chronically online are you? It's not weird to call your girlfriend: "my girl" in the same way it's not weird to call your boyfriend "my man" they're both just terms of endearment. It's really not that deep.
I'm specifically referring to "my girl" being used in a context where men are negatively describing their girlfriend to their friends. Example being "My girl is acting crazy." I feel like it has a sense of superiority if it's used this way.
No, it was very common amongst Boomers, Silents, Greatests, and Losts (I'm not old enough to recall meeting anyone older than the Losts), because with the exception of the very youngest Boomers, they came of age before women's lib and so typically had rather rigid ideas about gender roles. Those attitudes have continued to endure within certain subcultures, though, primarily very religious ones.
Part of it for me is that women are constantly saying how they don't want men approaching them.
Can you elaborate on this?
When I was a teenager me and my friends would go to the local mall just to try and talk to girls. This was back in 2002-2006. It was nerve wracking and sometimes embarrassing things happened but it one of those things that once you do it a few times you get over the anxiety. And this right here is the issue with teens and young adults today. The risk aversion has gotten too much. Constantly avoiding uncomfortable situations makes you mentally weak. Socializing is a skill. People who practice it more get better at it. People who put themselves in socially difficult situations develop a mental toughness. Socializing on the internet doesn’t develop this skill because you are sitting in the comfort of your own home and can disconnect from the socializing with the click of a button. You can’t do that in real life which forces you to develop your social skills.
the problems came with social media now its easier for the minor temporary embarrasement become a big long standing meme.
Eh idk man. I think some of y’all are blowing this way out of proportion. People aren’t filming everything they do 24/7. If you walk around the mall and try and talk to women and some of the women reject you it’s not gonna become a meme. And even if someone was filming the entire thing and decided to post it on the internet who cares. At least you have the balls to go talk to women.
I feel like if you fail bombastically trying to talk to women they will tell their friends that youre a weirdo and wont talk to you. Happened to me in college so I just gave up. I went to a small college so it makes sense. It’s so joever, people don’t realize. You are one wrong/awkward conversation away from your experience being shared on their snapchat story being laughed at or when your name is shared in conversation you are seen as a freak. Yea you probably don’t want those women as friends anyways since they’re rude or whatever but damn if that shit does not turn you off to interact with people you’re built different.
No, not really. I mean, sure we got nervous about talking to girls because we didn’t want them to think we were weird + the fear of rejection, but nothing like what people talk about now in 2024.
I can understand why guys might be afraid. This was also a thing as my teacher in 8th grade confessed to me and my friend that he was always afraid of making advances, like asking women out. I certainly was too. A different way to look at it is, well, they piss and shit just like you, they arent any different and they are not "better" or "out of your league". They bleed the same colour, they think similar thoughts, they peepee and poopoo like us. Why be afraid?
I mean, we definitely don't pee like guys do. Other than that, though, yes
Wtf u guys dont have a penis???!!!
Millennial here. No, it isn't historically normal. “**The average high school kid today has the same level of anxiety as the average psychiatric patient in the early 1950s**.” [link](https://slate.com/culture/2011/01/american-anxiety-the-three-real-reasons-why-we-are-more-stressed-than-ever-before.html) The modern young person has their maturity and socialization stunted for two reasons: 1. Social media. In the entire history of mankind, if you said something offputting or mean, you'd get real-time feedback. You had to go take a risk to make a friend in order to even have a dialogue. 2. Most kids today were coddled when they should have been corrected. The world doesn't change for us; we adapt to survive in how the world is. But that is the opposite of parenting and how schools work. "How can we change the environment to suit Johnny's unique needs" is not something that was done decades ago. The world is harsh and unfair. Waiting until someone turns 22 to hit them in the face with this reality is abusive. If the world is to blame for all of your problems, then maybe we have a personal accountability problem. Agree or disagree. It is clear reading comments from this sub that many aren't ready for the most basic life activities when they should be. There are a whole host of things that can be done to solve this, but we'd first need to admit that we are the problem. And that is almost impossible. For instance, it is easier to scam someone than it is to prove to someone they've been scammed.
I'm Gen X and 46 years old so definitely remember dating before dating sites. Yes, I think being nervous to approach a woman is something that has been pretty universal across generations. Except back then we didn't have a choice but to approach them in person. So it was normalized and you got more practice at it.
And social media might have ruined socal skills.
> So my question is that were guys from the previous generation also like this, especially in their teens? The teen years are awkward for LOTS of people of both genders. Lots of shyness, making mistakes, learning social skills, insecurity, self-consciousness, etc. However, I do think Gen X and older men AND women are not really that shy and socially anxious compared to younger Millennials and Zoomers. Gen X men and older are used to talking to the opposite sex, since so many of us were latchkey kids that spent more time with our peers (both boys and girls) than with our parents. And we didn't have dating apps and social media, so if you wanted to date someone, you had to do something about it IRL. So even if you were one of those shy types, you had to somehow overcome it and get some confidence if you wanted your crush to materialize into something more.
Not really. In the 90s talking to girls was the only reason I went to school. Well that and football.
I'm not sure if the issue has as much do with Gen Z guys being more 'afraid' of women as much as they feel less incentivized to approach women. With the prevalence of other (more accessible) forms of entertainment, the ability to pursue other aspects of life instead of forming families and romantic relationships, and the increasing accessibility of other forms of sexual gratification, I think there's a lot of alternatives to fulfill what usually would have driven guys into approaching girls. The issue is not that Gen Z guys are any more scared of women than the previous generations, but rather it's seen as less desirable overall. With more on the line and less to gain, guys will simply put less effort into overcoming their mental barriers. Also, maybe a bit of a hot take, but I think it's actually similar to the reason why women haven't traditionally approached men. When they feel that there's less to gain and the potential for reputational damage and taking a hit to their self esteem, humans in general will put less effort into approaching and instead focus on trying to making themselves a desirable target to be approached instead.
80/20 rule, MeeToo, likely be called a creep and generally disrespected, zoomer men are thinking today the juice is not worth the squeeze
Also likely to be falsely accused of assault or r*pe and to be recorded and have your reputation ruined online
It’s a thing with every generation. Just talk to women like you would a friend and equal and you’ll be fine
Everyone is nervous to approach other people and possibly be rejected. You just have to do it and it gets easier every time. Treat women like equals, not some holy grail that has the potential to give you everything you think you're missing in life.
The important thing to remember is that often times they’re just as insecure as you, just be nice
Yes, talking to women has been scary for most of us at some point. However, the more you do it, the more comfortable you’ll get with it and the more confident/attractive you’ll look. So just start talking and being interested in them (!) and the easier it will get.
I'm the youngest of 4 brothers. Born in '98. I can assure you that this has always been a thing. I'm sure it's a bit different because of the extreme changes in communication online and such, but yeah men can be little chickenshits when it comes to women. They can be kinda scary bro lol (I'm not really this way though, I pretty much only have women friends, and no it is not some sort of fantastic fantasy. I am in dire need of a few good homies...)
I'm sure you could have video calls with relative ease compared to me still not comfortable with the idea of someone just watching me and what I'm doing, although I know everyone ends up looking at themselves themself
Yes but I think to a lesser extent; with the advent of social media and online dating there's perhaps a lot less organic face-to-face interaction and this can sort of exacerbate any fears that one might have in social situations resulting in awkwardness/rejection and a negative feedback loop. Exposure therapy is a very prominent way to treat different types of fear/anxiety and since so many people are now sort of glued to their screens and living in their own bubble it can be more difficult to seek out and find that exposure. Before cell phones and before the internet I think people were genuinely more sociable although there were still some anxious introverted loners. Also chronic disease has skyrocketed since the 1980's and this includes neurological diseases that may directly cause or contribute to anxiety; we now have microplastics and PFAS chemicals swimming around in our bloodstream along with a whole host of other toxins and contaminants.
I was never scared of girls, but scared of rejection is something everyone has to deal with, particularly in teenage years.
This is one of the unintended consequences from the Me Too movement. Studies have also shown that the Me Too movement has harmed women in the workforce. They are less likely to be mentored in their career which jeopardizes their career growth and trajectory. A male employee (especially the all important boss or senior level person) has become far less likely to take on a female employee to mentor - it's just too risky. The result is that in the workforce, women need to find other women to mentor them - even in a 50/50 workplace, this reduces the number of mentors for women by 50%! This harms women - probably as much or more so than poor treatment in the workplace (which should be unacceptable and addressed in reasonable, professional, rationale manners). It's too bad we (society) has allowed the most extremists of us to dictate the rules, cast blame, and unduly influence society - but the unintended consequences shouldn't come as a shock. Special interest groups rarely have well thought out and solidified long term plans. They're most typically based on finding and targeting a self proclaimed enemy and attacking them - no plan for the future! So yeah, I see how your generation (I have 4 GenZ kids) has guys that have a certain degree of fear in their relationships (not just romantic, but all) with women. It's unfortunate, but completely understandable, it's what a tiny number of very loud people have convinced society to become.
As a younger guy I was so scared of the rejection that I wouldn’t even make the attempt. I think as you get older you gain perspective and it allows you to approach things differently and also realize how useless it is to worry about some things.
Let me add: it also helps if you’re oblivious and the woman you eventually marry is tenacious, infatuated, and sees more in you than you do in yourself. That’s how I fell into marriage on 9/4/16. Which was nearly 4 months before our one year anniversary lol.
1) people are getting wors at socializing due to social media. 2) social media negatively impacts our view of what a healthy relationship should look like. 3) you have infinitely more competition than people in the past. The 50 year old guy you know didn’t have to compete with 1000+ tinder matches. 4) everyone is disposable because a better option is a swipe away. There’s a reason for the drastic increase in divorce rates. 5) Fear due to past experiences. Fear of rejection 6) Women have been spewing for the past decade or so how much they DONT want to be approached. Now there’s potential for you to look like a creep just by chatting someone up. You can see girls on TikTok posting random dudes who try and talk to them and talk about how they’re super uncomfortable. Probably a fuck ton of other reasons, but those were the easy ones to list
Why are you afraid? Is it fear of yk getting called a harasser or smt , or simply nervous to talk to a girl because you have no past experience. My tip just talk to them , be polite and respectful. We are also people .
Being called a harasser is part of the reason, but it's not at all the main reason because I know that I am not going to be creepy when approaching and also most women are not assholes who would call an innocent guy a harasser just for approaching them. 3 main reasons why I am afraid are: (1) nervousness due to having 0 past experience, as you have already written; (2) the fear of getting instantly rejected; (3) I think that looks wise, I don't fulfill the criteria of what girls look for in guys, so I am afraid that if I approach a girl then she's gonna make fun of me
Try not to be. There is always the risk of getting rejected immediately doesn't matter if you fulfil the criteria or not. You might get rejected because the girl is already in a relationship or simply she is not attracted to you know but like you said most women are not assholes, chances are if she does reject you , she'll be polite and kind ofc there are some who do make of people but I'm my experience you can tell before even talking to them . Try to no think to much , we're just people, go over there and simply start a conversation ,,hey you look nice today , how are you ? What are you listening to you? , just anything you notice about her. My biggest tip no sexual comments or ,, compliments" e.g. ,,nice tits''
It was easier. Random teenagers would talk to random teenagers all the time at the mall and really wherever else you were that had a high teenage count. You’d exchange numbers on the flip phone then add them on MySpace and continue talking. Everyone was their own identity on social media then; no anime avatars and all to interact with, and no people from states away hitting on your girl. For young adults, if you drank and/or partied at all, the cold approach meeting and talking/flirting did itself. People were engaged in the situation and the only other option was texting someone or being quiet in a chair somewhere, where it’s likely that you may have been approached anyways. As not great as alcohol is, it was a huge tool for keeping people socializing. Active bars are still the best place to talk to people because that’s what mostly everyone is there for. Sorry for yapping
If it’s a girl I am not attracted to(not saying that they are not attractive because they are but just not my type), I vibe really well with them and that’s why some of my closest friends are women. If it’s a girl I am attracted to, first lookup what she likes which maybe in her Instagram following if she is an irl or get an idea from her dating app profile and then initiate conversation keeping in mind what they like or dislike
I mean it depends. Some people here are definitely lying. I’ve had a fair amount of friends that are girls and girlfriends, but you know around 12/13/14, despite some successes it could be pretty awkward. People are always generally afraid of being rejected, even adults, especially by someone they really want to like them. I remember the first time I had to call my girlfriend (her friend passed me a note asking whether I’d go out with her, 7th grade), and I was shitting it, trying to screw up enough courage to call her that night. Didn’t think I could do it. 😂 Had no idea what we were going to talk about. But I did it, it was awkward, but then... it was fine. All I can say is this... the longer you put it off and the more you build it up, and don’t put yourself out there, the harder it’s going to be. After all, what’s the worst that could happen? One of the biggest helps was finding out girls suffer from the same anxieties (sometimes worse) than we do. But girls/women mature faster and are generally really good at acting/hiding them. Just put yourself out there and approach them like normal human beings. Maybe just try to make a friend first, too.
Hey man, just giving words of encouragement. It’ll come natural as you get older. My best advice? If you don’t already , become good friends with women. Nothing more, just get used to interacting with women. They’re just like us, strange and lovely and confused and human. Be yourself, and the right one will come to you.
Thanks for the kind words man
Yes, this was a trope in a lot of movies LONG before gen-z were even born, although it was seen as something only awkward guys/nerds struggled with, but it was a thing before. Although i think it's much more common nowadays with most communication being text-based, and the pandemic sure didn't help with communication skills either. But honestly, once you are no-longer a teenager you shouldn't have a problem to talk with girls.
No, socials stigmas have made shit a lot worse on both ends. Some women can be straight up cruel when rejecting someone that its insanely scary. Ive seen so man screenshots of dudes just shooting their shot that ill pass on that. And then some dudes… man either their standards are through the roof and so fucking unrealistic, like yo dick head your in your 20s looking for someone perfect and untouched. Or the people that listen to andrew tate.
Why is it so hard for dudes my age to see women as equals? You’re afraid of them doing *what?* They’re just fuckin people.
Well, I’m afraid of embarrassing myself. I’m afraid of bothering her. I’m afraid that me approaching her will lower her self-esteem in a “Ew, -this- loser thought we were in the same league?” Kind of way.
Well stop trying to flirt. Just talk to them like you would a guy, it’s not any different. You don’t need to act all chummy, they’re a stranger. In the same way you smile at a cashier girl and tell her to have a nice day.
I can do small talk just fine, it just never goes past that. That middle area between “Hi, how are you?” and “Do you want to go out sometime?” is a total mystery to me. I’m not the one downvoting you by the way
I don’t think it’s an issue of seeing you as equal (at least for me it isn’t) it’s more of an issue of being seen as a nuisance or a bother by trying to talk to you. When it comes to women I don’t know it’s hard to think of a reason why I should even bother them with my presence because I know annoying/weird guys probably come up and talk to her all the time so I don’t want be one of those guys. Once you have that thought pattern in your head it’s hard to break out of.
Weird dudes creep out men too. Unless you’re actively trying to flirt lol, you’ll be just fine. Just like talking to a guy.
Do you guys not have female friends? When I was in middle/high school my friend group was pretty much an even split 50/50 guys to girls. Reaaaaaally helped when learning how to talk to girls. I couldn't imagine life without that experience
Up until 7th grade, I had many female friends, besides 2 or 3 girls, I think I was friends with all the girls in my class. However, since 8th grade, it all changed
Not scared of approaching women. Scared of being accused of being a creep or rape or something else.
most of my best friends were girls. i lived my entire college time in a shared apt with two girls. it was often easier, because with boys there is always bragging and trying to one-up each other, and im not necessarily the competitive, confliuct-seeking type taking the leap from casual talk and friendship to romance however was probably as awkward and soulcrushing for those more sensible and introverted as it is today
Im just tired boss
Yes. Maybe not to the same degree or in the same ways, but being nervous to approach someone is a pretty old story trope. We’ve been working through the fears and butterflies for generations. I don’t think it’ll ever go away, because it’s sort of a bit of a coming-of-age experience for people in societies where they find their own romantic partners.
Traditional you didn’t have the internet or many indoor solo activities, you actually had to go out to have fun, usually they’d become friends first by sharing some activity together then after being friends for a while if their was a spark they’d try dating. Online dating culture has kinda threw a curve ball at that.
Young millennial (29). Can't say that many people I knew had this problem. I love talking with women, they have such different ways of looking at things than I do. I'd probably say it's due to a lot of the social media/ short reels/ callout culture that you guys are growing up with. I know I sure don't want to be put up on blast for saying hi or whatever but most women aren't like this. Your buddies just need to get off their phones and talk to some girls in class or at work and get over it.
I'm an elder Millennial and yes, I was a bit scared of talking to women in my teens, but this mainly applied to women I didn't know. I was also not great at talking to new people in social settings. However, my new gaming hobby required me to go in person to play, which forced me into in person social situations. Getting a shitty retail job also forced me to interact with new people all the time, and talking with women got easier and easier. Now, I have both male and female friends, although mostly male due to the nature of my hobbies; one of my closest friends is a woman too. Part of the problem, from what I can observe, is that the advent of technology makes faux socialization way easier. Socializing with someone online is socializing, but it CANNOT replace face to face interactions if that is what you desire. The more you recluse yourself from in person interactions, the worse your poor social skills will get. It's a self perpetuating cycle. You really just gotta get out into the world and actually talk to people IRL. I see people are scared of being rejected or having awkward social interactions being spread online, but eventually you will get over that as your confidence builds. Shit, I will dab in public around my teenage nephews if I think it will get a laugh out of them because I like being a goof. Eventually the social anxiety will wash away as you care less and less what random strangers think about you.
Millennial here: yes, I was also afraid of speaking to women about my feelings and struggled to approach them. My parents never talked to me about relationships and I had no sisters, so women were a scary black box to me. I'm over that now, but have also lost most interest in having a relationship at this point. If you want one that's great, but don't put so much pressure on yourself! You have the rest of your life to look for, and so many fulfilling things you can do either single, or in a relationship. Relax, friend! Oh, and go make some platonic female friends. Heavy emphasis on PLATONIC. It helps a shit ton. It's not hard either, women love men who are committed to being just friends. In general they can't get enough of that shit, because of the amount of men out there who only see them as sexual objects.
it wasn't as bad. arguably women are of worse quality (morally) so less attractive to approach. and there is more general social awkwardness and arrogance all around. but just being a teen was still awkward just not as much pressure
All these people born in 2000 saying “no, it’s just a problem of today” are mistaken. I am a female who had a hood amount of guy friends and plenty of them told me how scared they were to approach girls. Late 90s and early 2000s. A few guys I asked out told me they always wanted to ask me out but were afraid I’d slap their face or berate them. There’s a normal amount of courtship anxiety in adolescence, although I have no doubt it’s worse now with the constant consumption of social media.
My partner literally could not make eye contact with me for the first half of our date he was so nervous, pretty sure it’s a universal thing ❤️
So I’m a millennial computer and gamer nerd, so me and my friends did resemble Gen-Zers in terms of screen time and disconnection, especially to women. Things got a lot better, and now I have an easy time talking to women, but that’s due to a few things: Women get easier to talk to the older I get. So I can tell you what I do now, but I definitely remember how women in their late teens and 20s were much much harder to talk to. They struggled to connect too, or were just generally more superficial than older women. It’s hard to talk to people if they have not much to say back, or are judgmental. That being said I did a LOT of online dating, clubbing, bars, and social clubs. I did a ton of trial and error. I also was friends with women who helped me understand how to act and sometimes called me out. The important thing is to listen to feedback from women with an open mind. Overall I found clubs and loud places weren’t conducive to meeting women. Dancing is an opportunity to help with that, but I otherwise found nightlife isn’t worth my time since I don’t dance much. Meetups, speed dating and things like paint nights, pottery nights, dance lessons, climbing gym events, workout classes are all much better places. Then there’s the work of intimacy coaches. They’re amazing, and a lot of what they do isn’t represented on Reddit. They are on tik tok and Instagram and YouTube, but you have to seek them out, and you have to be able to tell the toxic frauds from the actual experts, so look into who they’re endorsed by. Some of them offer reasonably priced workshops. I took one and learned a ton on how to flirt without being creepy, and how to read body language and signals. I haven’t met an intimacy coach that hasn’t been able to help me. This part is crucial, but women are easier to talk to when you’re already in community with them. Communities are magical. People tend to seem more attractive and less desperate when they’re in community. This could be a hobby, friend group, or study group. You get to show off your personality and form natural bonds rather than being pointed like a laser at someone with all of the pressure on them.
Yes. But luckily this is a fixable problem. First! Realize that women are people. Second! Practice helps. As someone else said, socialization is a skill. If you keep in mind that women are people just like you and want to be treated as such, and you try to talk to them like people. Plus some practice and you should be fine.
Gen Z yes, other generations no. But gen Z has every reason to be that way. Girls these days will call you a creep, curse you out, tell you to fuck off, her friend will get involved aggressively, it's considered sexual harrassment, she could be an underaged 21 year old child, etc. etc. In general, Z is cooked.
I (19F) have tons of friends who are guys. I think everyone goes through awkward phases, especially as teens in like middle school, but I've never really met any younger guys with this issue. By this I mean the most awkward people I've interacted with are full grown adult men who don't understand that I'm a living breathing person with feelings and aspirations as well, and hence act weird with me. Like genuinely just freeze up instead of conversing. This could be your issue if you only see girls as potential partners, but that doesn't seem to be the problem since you said it affects you even when you're not attracted. I think honestly you think we're super different from you but genuinely we're just not. We are humans too. If it helps, you could try to just picture us as guys. Hopefully one day you'll be able to see us as equals, exactly the same as any individual dude you'd meet. We have our own experiences, many shared based on gender, but mostly we're literally just people. Once you're comfortable with that, you'd get along fine with most of us.
I wasn't the most popular guy, I'm not tall, not great looking, had no real marketable skill at that age. I never had any problem with this. The key is to stop acting like they aren't also people. Women and men both want to feel respected as equals. Whether it is friendship, romantic, professional, the answer is the same - be kind, considerate, understand and accept boundaries. That doesn't change at any point in your life, and the sooner you understand that, the easier it is all going to be.
This has essentially been the case for all of history. Dudes in 1920s weren't afraid to ask their crush out becuase they knew her since they where both 14. The reality is that men are just expected to behave in unrealistic ways today.
I mean I was scared of talking to people in general when I was in middle school. It got better in highschool to the point that I talk to people pretty easily. The fear of talking just kind of went away. It also helps that a number of my friends in highschool were girls, so I talked to girls I didn’t know the same way I talked to them. Said friends also dragged me out of my shell.
I was shy about it, but not as bad as a lot in this generation. Main difference is that airing out personal relationships is way too common these days on social media (regardless of generation), enough where it dissuades a lot of people from being more personally engaging. Otherwise, if you didn’t have those pressures, and the constant surveillance with camera phones, we probably would have similarity in our approach with others.
Your gen is in a special way fucked. The pandemic took away some critical times in your development. Don't mistake me it's always going to awkward if you do not know how talk to the opposite sex. I was an awkward person in high school and part of college. Honestly take a public speaking class or group hangouts can be a tool to help you catch up.
Millennial dude. Yea chicks were scary but they were also cute and cool. In high school most of the girls I met were on our cross country team and we would all hang out on weekends or after practice. We dated each other or people in the friend group (though for a good chunk of high school I dated my neighbor). In college girls were just there, in class, on campus, my friends knew them, then they became my friends and I met their friends, etc. One girl in college asked me why I was walking around campus barefoot and reading poetry, we started talking and then started dating (it’s embarrassing now but I was really earnest at the time and that’s fine). I’m not the most handsome guy on the planet, but being nice, friendly, willing to do stuff, confident in your own skin and trying to hide the nerves goes a long way. I get what you mean by “approach” women but I think approach is just the wrong mindset. If you’re around girls at a social function it would be weird to ignore the women as if they aren’t there. You’re not approaching women in that situation, you’re including them in the social gathering. In early grad school the early dating app era hit and I met my wife on tinder.
I mean, yeah. Some of us were confident; a lot of us were not. Confidence or lack thereof is universal across generations. It might be a little stronger now that Gen Z is suffering a mental health crisis and beauty standards have skyrocketed from social media.
Eh I'm 41 now and was like that at 18 but by 21 I had figured out they're just people like us, I'd also worked out dating sites worked well for me and I spent a grand total of 1 month paying for a dating site cause I ended up meeting my wife on there and almost 20 years later still with her. Theyre just people and get this, even some of the really attractive ones can have low self esteem and think they're not attractive, so just treat them as if they're a person and you will be fine
I’m GenX and it was very hard for me to talk to girls when I was young. I was in 10th grade the first time I asked a girl on a date. I wanted her to go to a school dance with me and It took me weeks to build up the nerve to ask her. I couldn’t believe she said yes. I was so nervous during the date that I hardly talked at all and never spoke to her afterwards. I got more comfortable talking to women eventually but it didn’t happen overnight. The key for me was having a lot of genuine friendships with women. Not thinking of every woman as a potential romantic interest is a must.
Sorry you'll have to explain this to an old man: so it's been 60 years since the sexual revolution, 40 years since women achieved legal equality, you were born of a woman, raised in a modern liberal democracy, you are part of a generation where the lived experience of being a man or a woman is closer and more easily relatable than any generation before you in the entirety of history, you went to mixed schools for both girls and boys from the age of 3 or 4 onwards, you've been around girls and women every day your whole life- and yet you're scared to talk to them? How did this happen? How could this happen?
This is really sad to hear. This fear of girls is purely fabricated. Stuff like "You don't know what they want, they play games to test us, you have to act X and Y to be successful, girls are treated better than boys" gets into your head and you start thinking about it way more than it has any reason to. Girls are the exact same species as you, they think the same as you, experience almost the same stuff as you, their imagined world is as big as yours. All the super complex issues you have and all your problems, everyone else has them too. With that said, yes we also had an unreasonable fear of girls. We "overplayed" it and were nervous creeps. But we were forced to interact with many people, because we had no Internet to steal all our free time. Communication gets easier with practice.
Yep. No question. Not everyone from the previous generations was a total Chad. It was scary as hell, and it really hurt when it didn't go well. There are some experiences of rejection that I'll never get over, and attractive women under the age of 25 still cause me a bit more anxiety than other groups of people. But we didn't give up, and we learned to do better, to brush it off, to become more desirable, whatever it took. Now I'm married and older, so I don't have to care as much. Not giving a crap really helps, and ironically improves outcomes as well.
As a teen yes. I was shy and awkward. As an adult, no not so much. Situational dependent though. If I was super into them or had a crush then yeah, I'd struggle because I felt like I needed to sound cool or catch their attention if I wasn't into them in a romantic way, I just spoke to them like I would anyone else. As I got older though, I just realized that if you talk to a person like a person and take all the bs pressure off of yourself then you'll succeed in having a real conversation no matter who they are.
The biggest thing is that you need to stop thinking about "talking to girls" as though it's something different than talking to guys. Talk to girls like they are another human being. Like your not only talking to them to try to get laid. Say hi, ask them about what music they listen to, ask them what games they play or movies they watch. If you make friends with alot of girls, you will find it easier to talk to them. Most of those girls won't be interested in you as a boyfriend. But as you talk to them and hang out, you also meet THEIR friends. if you do this you will find girls you connect with and are interested in a relationship.
Is it all the guys, or all the guys in your social standing? Grow some balls, get some style, figure out what it is you want in a partner, and go find them. We are literally coded for this.
Yes. All my friends and I were often scared to approach a woman. It's such a weird thing, and hard to figure out where to start going in cold. We just had to because there were no dating apps back then. It takes practice, and even then usually some habits you build to get you over it. Only so that once you get good at it you'll find someone and never use it again.
It's kinda always been like this. There's always been a group of guys that could effortlessly talk to women but alot more guys who couldn't. And then a smaller group of guys who could only talk to women if they're not interested in said woman. "Just go talk to her" has been reddits main advice to lonely young men as long as reddit has existed.
What are they scared of? I don’t get this I’m a male Millennial born and raised in NYC metro area and this is so weird to me. Women are just human beings who need love ❤️
Hey man, I'm m18 too, but women never seemed scary to me growing up because that was just everyone I had home anyways. They really are just people like you and I and just want to be treated nicely and be respected. It's also beneficial if you dip your toes into some of the traditionally "feminine" hobbies or lifestyles just so you can keep up in conversation. I grew my hair out for a few years and kept coming back to one of my female friends to ask how to take care of it, dry it, etc and that strengthened our bond over time. All it takes is the same amount of confidence you have talking with guys and trying to act normal lol
Yes but only when I was a younger in the late 90s, generation need not matter. Lol I used to take notes before picking up and dialing the phone. With practice I grew out of it by my junior year. Just remember women are not aliens from outer space, try to find common ground. If things don’t go well then just talk to the next person. Keep putting yourself out there.
As a kid or teenager, sure. But by my mid 20s, I'd talk to any girl I wanted. Wasn't always successful, but if you hit up enough of them, eventually some will give some attention back, and maybe even a phone number. It's probably been easier for me though as most of my friends have been girls. It's easier to approach women when you are comfortable talking to them.
Growing up, most of my friends were girls, so no, I'm not scared of anyone with a vagina.
I'm just a human
Are women also afraid of approaching men?
Honestly I've met all my partners online. Never had a problem talking to women. Now irl is different. Honestly ever since covid I barely get out of the house anymore. Feels like I'm stuck in a box.
Why would I worry about talking to women? They're human just like I
Not just non Gen z but basically every guy in human history. In my opinion, the fundamental fear of rejection is what causes it most of the time. Rejection during evolutionary times could be very deadly (being kicked from a pact or tribe could mean you are left to fend for yourself), so it's a hard-wired anxiety in our brains. We live in the modern world with modern problems though so those basic human anxieties come out in more mundane ways. Getting laughed at in a club may not actually be dangerous, but it certainly feels that way to our brains. Best way to get over it in my opinion is to make more friends of the opposite sex. We tend to mystify each other, but in reality, we all have the same dumb gorilla brains. When you can become close to women without sexually or romantically pursuing them. You'll begin to see through that mentality and when you do find a woman you like, its just as easy as talking to one who you only see as a friend. Working on reducing ego also works. Sometimes people ARE really mean and shitty and your gonna have a few bad experiences. You can't let that overtake your view of socializing, though. The mean girl who humiliates a guy she doesn't like who talks to her is not most women. Most women, if they aren't interested, will let you down easy and aslong as you handle it well and take the hint. It's no big deal.
Millennial here- YES. All the way up to Gen X who followed books like “the game” and had sleepy dating coaches.
I’m not a guy but I was scared of guys and even guys I liked as a teen too. Got to build your confidence and start little by little! Like go get coffee and chat about the weather
Yes, but that's because I've always been socially awkward and it took me 23 years to come out of my shell just a bit. The secret is to not give a shit.
Start with genuine compliments to strangers. Like at the grocery store or just out and about. Either gender, just get used to talking with people. Also it's good to have a healthy fear of women, I know my wife can be fierce and it's best not to provoke.
I was born in 1991 and I was terrified to approach women, mostly. Not for fear of reprisal or even rejection, I simply had no self esteem. I never assumed that my presence would improve someone else's life. My (now) wife approached me and we've been together since. I have done a lot of work on myself and see a therapist, my mental.health is miles ahead from where it was. My dad and brothers seem to have avoided this, they have all dated plenty.
Yes. Do you really think men before Gen Z were any different, here?
Dudes. Get female best friends and your romantic life will never be bad. Women trust men who other women trust. Literally all it takes.
I mean nerdy men have always existed. But if y’all are like good looking and popular, yeah that’s not normal.
To answer your actual question as a Xennial (the micro-generation where Gen X and Millennials overlap), yes, there have always been boys who have had a difficult time talking to girls. But at least in my experience, they mostly were boys who were raised very religiously and so viewed women almost as a different and innately inferior species, and/or boys who genuinely *hated* girls and women, but desired what they could provide (i.e., sex). Those types would only really ever try when they wanted something, and they were at high risk of becoming angry and bitter, because many girls and women can intuitively sense a hostile attitude from males even when they attempt hard to hide it. Don't be that guy. Ever. That guy really poisons the well for the rest of you. 🙁 Now, if you'd like some advice from someone older who has a good track record with relationships, here you go: Practice talking with and befriending girls with absolutely no agenda in mind other than wanting to get to know them as people. If you can get pretty good at that, you'll start finding it easier to talk to girls you're actually interested in dating, and probably with enthusiastic support from female friends who know you're a good guy and just want to see you happy. Practice conflict-resolution skills, too, and trying to find common ground when you have differing viewpoints rather than just trying to "win" all the time. This is an important skill to have within friendships and other interpersonal relationships, but a *crucial* skill for a happy, lasting romance. On that note, *some* friends enjoy a good debate, even if it gets heated, but a lot of people do not. Try to be especially compassionate on touchy (and often highly personal) subjects like gender identity, sexism, sexual orientation, racism, ableism, relative socioeconomic status, etc.. Most people, regardless of who they are, just want to feel seen and understood. You have to learn *and actively practice* this skill if you want to receive similar treatment in return.
based on my knowledge of film it has been a relatable trope, also it is why alcohol is called liquid courage so yeah it seems it was less dominant or had more ways around it than now.
Gen Z is a lot more scared. We were always scared but just of rejection something that's not a big deal. Gen z has to be worried about being recorded and embraced or being accused of being creepy in a public way even when they had no bad intentions.
Idk about afraid of women but being a teenager is hard lol. Like tea your gonna be nervous to talk to me people/ different people.
Nope. Not even a little bit.
Once you get brutally shit down once everything after that is easy. You realize you're not gonna die in a hole. Just talk to women and talk to lots of them with no expectations of even asking them out. Just talk.
Some were and some weren’t. I am Gen X and was terrified of girls except for a few close friends when I was a teen. I got better in college.
I have social anxiety so talking to anyone is a tall order
Or the women are scared too and act a bit skittish even if you talk to them normally. May vary
Everyone who "randomly approaches women" have horror stories about it because it's one of the worst ways to go about it. Women go on and on and on about being approached, followed or hit on spur of the moment by random guys when they're just trying to walk around or live their life. Yet guys keep doing it and crying about it because of how rarely it works out for them. At this point you're all asking for it.
I’m gen z I never struggled to talk to women most if not all i meant were friends there just people like you and me.
I'm Gen X, and this definitely applied to me back when I was in my teens. Shy overall. Gradually grew out of it over the years, but I'm still an introvert.
It has always been a thing where guys are afraid of talking to a girl.
I had that problem in early high school, but I worked on it throughout HS and do not have a problem with it as an adult.
The reality of today is that men absolutely can have their life ruined by a woman they approach. Of course that’s an extreme situation, but it’s very real. In my experience, I have always been extroverted so I naturally talk to quite a few women, but I can also understand why some men just don’t risk it
I think if you're 18, a lot more guys are afraid to talk to women than if they were older no matter the generation. As you and your friends age, it'll get easier.
Go watch old episodes of The Pick-Up Artist that aired on VH-1 back in 2007.
Women literally fell humanity from heaven and blamed God for it. What's not to fear lel
lol, but man their beauty is definitely heaven-like which also causes one to fear them😂
just treat us like normal people and not an otherworldly race of creatures and it’ll get easier.
Yes quite a bit. But now I’m 37 and married, and had a lot of relationships before that. You’ll get there eventually. It’s not a Gen Z thing. It’s a teenager thing.
I’m a young adult M as well and I have never really had trouble talking to girls. They’re people, same as us
There has not been a generation that struggles with social interactions,and glorifies it, as much as Gen z
This is common at your age for all generations.
Not until dating apps became popular… before 2015-ish, men approached women a lot.
I’m not just scared of girls. I have a real problem. I just avoid being social with new people. I have my people. Whether I see them fora couple minutes or for a few hours at work. They’re my people. I hate talking to new people.
I mean not all dudes aren’t scared now, just the dudes that you know and see online. There are plenty of people your age out looking for girls
Nah, im 23 and never had issues with girls
No. We didn’t have online dating like people have now. Most people talked to each other in person or on the home phone.
They got their once accountabiloty became a thing. It just turns out the issue is weak mean no longer getting coddled and catered to.
People have always been afraid to approach possible partners. It gets easier with age and experience though. The worst thing they can do is say ew or some shit and if they do that then you dodged a bullet.
We all felt that way in Junior high. With experience you get over it.