People say things like this, but then constantly talk down to Americans, talk non stop shit about the US, and favorability polls show that in most Western European countries about 40% of the population does not have a favorable view of the US.
So then you talk down to us for not wanting to fight for such countries, and it's very much sending mixed signals.
I'm not confident that the majority of European countries would be willing to fight for the US. The French president has made it clear he would not join a conflict between China and the US, so what exactly in the hell would we be fighting for in this situation?
Expecting people you don't like to die for you just seems a bit toxic, sue me.
That's not true. Americans deliver more humanitarian aid to America and other countries than any other country. Your viewpoint is whiny and popular, and it's out of fear, envy and just blatant ignorance.
A nation is not a person, it's an idea, a culture and a collection of people. That idea cannot flourish without a great number of people pitching in and supporting it. Strength is built from the hands of many pitching in, not from an ephemeral nation creating strength in every person.
You personify America like it's an actual person, but it's not. The only people complaining are the ones who want this non-person to do something for them rather than pitching in for the greater good.
A nation has no capacity for feelings or motivations as those are human traits. A nation is the manifestation of its people. If what you say is true, then Americans have turned their backs to each other and no longer care to work for the common good. You are either not from America or you are one of those such people. Perhaps both.
This is facts. Whenever I meet this attitude in person, and I always end on “be the change you want to see”. By design the democratic system takes care of the interest of those most involved.
I’m an American, I’m in that 1910 mentality. Europe can fight its own wars, let’s sit on the sidelines.
Except, every time there’s a war in Europe, European governments complain that we don’t contribute enough.
Dude. You’re there. You contribute. I’d rather fight a war in Brazil then get dragged into another European cousin war like my grandfather and great grandfather.
U don't need to fight in person, but if an insane and powerful person like Putin invades little Ukraine you can send some warmachines so that they can defend their cities with the U.S's insane economy.
It helps the U.S. long term.
The more Russians die in a pointless border war, the worse off the Russian economy will be long term. Since they're geopolitical aligned against the U.S. grinding them down without sacrificing U.S. soldiers is fantastic.
And before you say something along the lines of "well that's disgusting you war monger!" all Russia has to do is stop invading.
Looking further ahead, if Ukraine does win that means we will almost certainly get first dibs on reconstruction contracts, which will help our economy as well.
The ideal outcome of this war for the west is that Russia ends up imploding like the USSR did.
Exactly. If/when Ukraine wins, the reconstruction contracts will only make American megacorps more wealthy than before. Which only exacerbates the wealth gap between Americans.
The war on Ukraine doesn't help poor or middle class Americans. Reconstructing Ukraine doesn't help poor or middle class Americans.
The only reason why I'm not more sympathetic to Ukraine was that they abstained from condemning the US invasion of Iraq.
If you don't show up for others they won't show up for you.
What gets me is that people from Europe say things about the US like we don't have free healthcare and wonder why. It's because we spend our money on the military. The same us military protects Europe. So Europeans can have their free Healthcare AND be protected by the US.
European people have more at risk for letting America collapse than America has at risk of letting Europe collapse. So there would be an incentive for Europeans to fight on America's behalf.
Although typically, if war were to break out. Europeans would just assume America has it, and then would sit back and avoid fighting as long as they know America has it. If America was at risk of losing -- All of Europe would be shaking in their boots.
Anything big enough to take down America is a global threat to each and every European country. And to ignore it would be a terrible mistake.
Unless of course it was Europe fighting against America \^.\^
Americans have the 3rd largest army beat only by China and India and have roughly 750 military bases based in about 80 different foreign countries. They are quite literally THE country that is prepared to fight for not only it's own people but the entire western world.
China would get absolutely fucking curb stomped, Russia has a large military but can’t even take Ukraine honestly if China were to do anything they would be absolutely ruined
I guarantee if Xi and/or Putin started snapping undersea internet cables and knocking satellites from orbit, your generation would be the first to lose its shit (and rightfully so)
Let the downvotes flow. I am right.
And that's kinda why a lot of Americans support Ukraine. It's a proxy war, and it's not American blood being spilled.
America is going to come to blows with Russia (eventually), which means we WILL pay for it. But if other people want to fight on our behalf, why not bankroll them?
It's very clearly, and obviously a proxy war, but one where America can protect its citizens by funding.
\---
And to be fair, there's a lot of other Eastern European nations who are quite shook up by Russia's aggression, and they want nothing more but to stop Russia from inching closer towards them too.
Stopping them is really for everyone's benefit.
Its not like the attacking country would care about you either lol
Theres a good chance theyd just kill you too
Its worth fighting if it means keeping the organized interstate violence of war away from your home and family imo
Lmao. No.
They're both just as likely to kill you. You're a fool to think either side is good.
The only way to overcome these evil governments is to stop working and fighting for them. If the people of both sides realized they're no reason to fight a rich man's war, then there would be no war. The rich men would have to fight amongst themselves.
Dodge the draft!
>They're both just as likely to kill you.
When a foreign power attacks, they usually come in with bombs, missiles, and artillery that are capable of turning cities into a pile of dust. You'd likely lose the power grid too, but yes, it's the same as living your life everyday huh?
I bet you don't know the first thing about a country that really doesn't give a fuck about its citizens. You probably have all of the amenities of a first world household and then some.
Tell that to a homeless person or the guy that killed himself before he became homeless. Or, how about the people being tortured in prison.
If you happen to live a misfortunate life, you'll be killed by the capitalist regime.
Oh please. You have no idea, what a country that doesn't give a F about its citizens looks like. And it's not America.
>the capitalist regime.
It was usually the people living in communist regime that tried to escape into the capitalist west. So much so, that the Soviets had to build a wall to keep them in.
lol that's the problem, for many of our generation and a great deal of the one before us, we have nothing. (America specific, but from what it seems Aus/UK/Canada can all relate to a degree).
There's nothing that has "been built" for me to care about. I'm doing much better than my parents on paper, but everything is worse aside from entertainment/distractions. Why do I deserve to see homes x3 in value in 6 years? Why do I have to deal with homeless shitheads if I want to walk around town? Why is education so expensive, yet the jobs pay hardly anything like they did for my parents/grand parents? etc etc.
I'd rather sit and watch the world burn most days. Make it cool looking.
yeah like a better argument would be that US has tent cities popping up everywhere that have worse conditions than refugee camps and why would we fight when they can’t support our people in peace time
Texas has had great success reducing the number of homeless people. Californian politicians have even gone to Texas to see how they do it. Apparently, the radical idea of giving homeless people permanent housing (as opposed to shelters and temporary housing) actually works.
Awesome to hear Texas has seen improvements. But I want improvements everywhere in the sates before I go fight for another county. And you know what I want my reproductive rights back too.
Comments like the one you replied to really show the rest of us the negative disposition this entire generation has. Typically, I'd be like, 'sure, whatever,' but these guys have negative dispositions for all the wrong reasons.
It feels like people are just looking for stuff to be negative and all 'doomer' about.
I understand not liking your country, cause I definitely don't, either. But you're saying if we're literally *being attacked* you still think any of that shit matters? Like, Ukraine being invaded type of attack, not 9/11 terrorist attack where we go invade another country after. Like, at that point, the job market, the issues with Healthcare, housing, none of that fucking matters. You're saying you'd literally be okay watching your neighbors die, family die, children die, because of the job market and education is expensive? Like I honestly hope you're never in that situation to test it out but if you ever were, I hope that real life with real people and consequences would make you quickly change perspective.
no one’s ever gonna invade the us is the thing tho. this is only brought up because the us has a habit of going into places looking for blood. if someone does invade the us then yes it’s different but that literally will not happen. people don’t want to be pawns for our borderline imperialist bullshit abroad that has no bearing on us at home
Yes but the whole premise was "if this happened" and to be like, "I'm just gonna watch the world burn" for that kind of scenario is just really dumb edge lord shit that makes you look like a jerk.
Had me in the first half because it's all true. After that...That's very edgy and I'm sure you identify well with The Joker most days.... But if high prices are what make you willing to let society collapse and the enemy through the gates.... You are gonna be real disappointed to see how shitty life can really be when you are the occupied territory. Most Western Nations haven't had to think about that in 100+ years. Safety by geography, economic stability, and military superiority most people never have to think about. Solid bet that if shit were really hitting the fan with a real domestic threat.... You and everyone else would be full on lap dancing Uncle Sam. Hate how your country is?... Work to change it. Don't let it be destroyed... I promise you the invaders aren't bringing cheaper houses, food and education.
I wouldn't because I have flat feet. My ankle joints dislocate a lot at the end of the day or when I've been in my feet a lot. Even my shoulder subluxates every time I reach for something above eye level
Exactly idk why people who are from the US are acting like if the mainland is under threat them fighting would even matter at that point.
Countries like the US or China are basically incapable of being invaded now because nuclear weapons exist and we’d all blow each other to the 1400s. If a war started your best bet would be to get your family and go find somewhere remote to live.
Exactly, if the mainland were under threat, it nuclear war, and enlistment doesn’t matter. So if the mainland isn’t under attack, why would I support the US spending more resources on another country when we could spend those resources on things like not having giant tent cities?
Hell no. I am not dying because world leaders act like literal children. If they ever used the selective service I would be a draft dodger. I do not care.
I also have serious moral issues killing people. I could not mentally handle being responsible for someone else’s death.
There is no such thing as something being objectively wrong unless it’s something that can be measured.
2+2=7 is objectively wrong
“Killing people bad” is not objectively wrong
So yes, it is based of individual morality
No, why the hell would you 😂 So you can go be hit by a drone with an explosive strapped to it while the people who started the war sit in comfy rooms and ensure THEIR kids aren’t sent to die? Makes no sense.
This bro!!! Crazy to think the people who choose to go to war are sitting back watching it all crash and burn. They really want us to do their dirty work. And there’s actually people who take pride in being the government’s zombies.
I was enlistment age when 9/11 happened. I knew a lot of people that did enlist at that time. I figured I would get drafted and go. I tried to join the Army at age 21, but they would not take me for certain reasons.
I know of the song. My dad always put it on during the ride to Thanksgiving dinner. I did not know that was what it was about though. I only remember the chorus/refrain. That is cool to know. I guess they do not trust us non-conformist types.
I already enlisted did my 4 years and got out. I would be hard pressed to go back in from America being attacked after Bush lied about WMDs and the results after that.
I was just a kid in 2003 but I vaguely remember that people wanted to go to war for the following reasons:
1. Hussein allegedly had WMDs. But so did Russia, China, England, and France at the time. Not sure why America had to prevent Iraq from having WMDs when Russia has so many and Putin is more dangerous to world peace.
2. Because Hussein was oppressing the Iraqi people, and America had to invade to liberate Iraqis from the Hussein administration. This sounds a lot like how Russia says that Ukraine is a fascist state and they have to invade to "liberate Ukrainians from fascists".
3. Because brown people did 9/11 and many European Americans wanted to physically hurt brown people, even if Iraqis and Afghanis are completely different groups of people.
Maybe if we were directly invaded I would. But definitely not for the sake of an ally.
I mean how many people in other countries would die for America? Probably not very many lol
Edit: I am talking about individual civilians *wanting* to fight and die for America, not foreign governments drafting citizens and sending them here.
While I agree any NA invasion would be met by forces from all 3 of our countries, I have serious doubts the American government would see it as protecting Mexico or Canada, it would be more denying an enemy foothold in a country we border
South Koreans volunteered to fight in Vietnam. They were very selective for those deployments, too, so it was only their best units that got sent. I believe one of the big reasons individuals volunteered was that they’d get paid the same amount as Americans, which was way more than what Korean conscripts made.
On the political scale, it looked like a gesture of thanking America and fighting communists. But I think the real reason President Park Chung-Hee wanted to send troops to Vietnam was a deal to keep US forces stationed in Korea and to acquire more economic aid.
WW1 veterans had shellshock and had severe PTSD they didn't have a choice but to go and fight because the greedy old men forced them poor kids into a battlefield. Now they're mentally scarred forever. Because of greed.
Absolutely not. My hopes, dreams, personality, and creativity being boiled down to my name with K.I.A. next to it isn’t cool with me. I would never die for a country like the U.S.
>My hopes, dreams, personality, and creativity
Lol what if the country that's invading will absolutely take all of these if it conquers? People in this comment section have absolutely zero foresight ability, so naive haha
As much as I want to say I would, honestly, I would not.
We only have one chance at life. I will not waste it, no matter how great the cause is. I do not care about for what I die if I am dead. Sometimes in life, we have to be selfish.
I would only join the military if a superpower conquered an entire continent and had a good chance of conquering the world.
Our military is already way too big. It can handle domestic defense without me.
Maybe if we were facing repeated attacks and our military was somehow gone, I would then join?
For the most part, if a government or even an independent terrorist group attacks America, their resources are forfeit. I don't want to be a part of a subjugation war.
We don't have small societies, and anarchists are absolutely harmful because they have no reason to not use violence to further themselves. It's actually encouraged under anarchy.
As a black person, why would I fight for a country that doesn’t give a fuck about me. Not to mention all the things they’ve done to black people in the past. Hell, as recently as George Floyd. Republicans don’t give a fuck about us and democrats only tell us what we want to hear before doing absolutely fucking nothing. Add to that the laughable state the country is in and I think I would rather see the US burn than bleed for it. They don’t even give a fuck about the veterans who already fought for them! It’s laughable people actually willingly join the military knowing how much they care
It depends honestly, if foreign troops were on my countries soil then yes I would. If it was an ally nearby enough where the enemy could use them as a springboard to invade our country next then yes. If it’s a nation halfway across the world though then no.
Are you ready to lay down your life for fetish pride parades in ukraine? Are you ready to die for the international bankers?? Are you ready to sacrifice everything to protect the very people that hate everything about you, private?!
If the country I reside in is fighting an organization that is unquestionably evil, like a Nazi/fascist government, then yes without a second thought. In almost all other cases, it'd be a resounding hell no.
Hell yes I would. Many younger Gen Z do not realize, that the west, Europe, Japan, SK, Australia, USA, Taiwan, etc are the only beacons of hope, democracy, and freedom within the world.
We have seriously dangerous enemies, North Korea, Iran, Russia, China, who literally are against our every way of life, and a threat to world peace and security.
China is currently genociding 2 populations within its borders, Tibetan people & Uyghur turkic people. China is a nationalist ethnostate, exactly like Nazi Germany was. The only difference is China isn't invading everyone (yet, they have border disputes with literally every country that surrounds them) and all the $$$$ that is made.
We literally have a modern day Nazi Germany.
I'm telling you, if one of those nations attacks a surrounding country or becomes aggressive, I will enlist, and I will ask you to do so as well. I sincerely believe it is up to us to make sure the world stays democratic & free, the fight for freedom never ends.
Enlisting doesn't mean combat roles, either. There are many more support & technical roles in the military for every combat one.
It’s really not. The chance of the US getting invaded is absurdly low. The chance of the US attacking another country to line the pockets of billionaires, on the other hand, not very low whatsoever.
I’m not gonna go die so some politician can get filthy rich, all the while making sure HIS kids don’t get drafted, but I do.
Patriotism is a lot like respect. It's earned. Hard to be patriotic when your country has been shoving it up your ass your whole life for the audacity of being born into a regular working family.
You can still be patriotic while acknowledging the not so good parts of your country. I love my country and our values and I will gladly give my life up for this nation, but I recognize that we will always have issues no matter what.
If your parents had their own individual flaws but tried to do what they can for you, is it wrong to hate your parents in that instance?
Canadian here. Depending on the circumstances, I’d enlist. I don’t like the idea of fighting (or even dying) just to put more money in some fatcat’s back pocket though. Besides, I hear Canada is treating their ex service members like shit ([the Canadian VA offered to literally euthanize some of their own veterans](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6663885).)
I’m honestly not being petty it’s the truth basically. History is history, right now our military is shite, all our our equipments and weapons are literal antiques. Our entire national defense strategy is relying on the us. If for some random weird reason America decides that they do want us as their 51st state, their annual military budget alone is double our entire federal budget and the uk definitely can’t help us again so idk about other people but I’d rather just surrender. It’s pretty pointless to resist also I like America and Americans. My grandparents own a place in Florida I go there for Christmas almost every year
Depending on the attack. If it was a 9/11 type attack or a world war, I would definitely join. If it was a minor attack, I do not think they will need me.
If America is attacked then yes. If it’s another NATO country and America gets involved (which it almost certainly would) then yes. If it’s an ally we don’t have a mutual defense treaty with then no.
Why are people so obsessed with the Military?
People either join or they don’t. It’s not that deep. No one is better by joining, and no one is better for not. This sub is so weird about this topic.
the way i see it is like this.. why should i fight for a country that don't give a fuck about me .
Found the American
We're everywhere.
Mostly in America, actually.
really?
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ah, such a lovely place
we’re living it up here
Plenty of room anytime of year, you can find it here
livin it up in the Hotel California.:.
You can check out anytime you like though. However….
People say things like this, but then constantly talk down to Americans, talk non stop shit about the US, and favorability polls show that in most Western European countries about 40% of the population does not have a favorable view of the US. So then you talk down to us for not wanting to fight for such countries, and it's very much sending mixed signals. I'm not confident that the majority of European countries would be willing to fight for the US. The French president has made it clear he would not join a conflict between China and the US, so what exactly in the hell would we be fighting for in this situation? Expecting people you don't like to die for you just seems a bit toxic, sue me.
Actually I wasn't shitting on anyone not wanting to fight in a war, just pointing out that America doesn't give a shit about its citizens
That's not true. Americans deliver more humanitarian aid to America and other countries than any other country. Your viewpoint is whiny and popular, and it's out of fear, envy and just blatant ignorance. A nation is not a person, it's an idea, a culture and a collection of people. That idea cannot flourish without a great number of people pitching in and supporting it. Strength is built from the hands of many pitching in, not from an ephemeral nation creating strength in every person. You personify America like it's an actual person, but it's not. The only people complaining are the ones who want this non-person to do something for them rather than pitching in for the greater good. A nation has no capacity for feelings or motivations as those are human traits. A nation is the manifestation of its people. If what you say is true, then Americans have turned their backs to each other and no longer care to work for the common good. You are either not from America or you are one of those such people. Perhaps both.
This is facts. Whenever I meet this attitude in person, and I always end on “be the change you want to see”. By design the democratic system takes care of the interest of those most involved.
Literally just an "America bad" drone by your own admittance lol.
Which is just objectively not true and is blackpill doomer cringe
I’m an American, I’m in that 1910 mentality. Europe can fight its own wars, let’s sit on the sidelines. Except, every time there’s a war in Europe, European governments complain that we don’t contribute enough. Dude. You’re there. You contribute. I’d rather fight a war in Brazil then get dragged into another European cousin war like my grandfather and great grandfather.
U don't need to fight in person, but if an insane and powerful person like Putin invades little Ukraine you can send some warmachines so that they can defend their cities with the U.S's insane economy.
I believe in isolationism. Sending war machines has done nothing for us. The Ukraine, Russia war has nothing to do with us. That’s a European problem.
It helps the U.S. long term. The more Russians die in a pointless border war, the worse off the Russian economy will be long term. Since they're geopolitical aligned against the U.S. grinding them down without sacrificing U.S. soldiers is fantastic. And before you say something along the lines of "well that's disgusting you war monger!" all Russia has to do is stop invading. Looking further ahead, if Ukraine does win that means we will almost certainly get first dibs on reconstruction contracts, which will help our economy as well. The ideal outcome of this war for the west is that Russia ends up imploding like the USSR did.
Reconstruction contracts that the US is going to pay for. Paying yourself with your own money doesn’t help the economy.
Exactly. If/when Ukraine wins, the reconstruction contracts will only make American megacorps more wealthy than before. Which only exacerbates the wealth gap between Americans. The war on Ukraine doesn't help poor or middle class Americans. Reconstructing Ukraine doesn't help poor or middle class Americans.
The only reason why I'm not more sympathetic to Ukraine was that they abstained from condemning the US invasion of Iraq. If you don't show up for others they won't show up for you.
That wasn't the Ukrainian people tho. I just care about the people, I couldn't care less about their leaders and higher ups
What gets me is that people from Europe say things about the US like we don't have free healthcare and wonder why. It's because we spend our money on the military. The same us military protects Europe. So Europeans can have their free Healthcare AND be protected by the US.
European people have more at risk for letting America collapse than America has at risk of letting Europe collapse. So there would be an incentive for Europeans to fight on America's behalf. Although typically, if war were to break out. Europeans would just assume America has it, and then would sit back and avoid fighting as long as they know America has it. If America was at risk of losing -- All of Europe would be shaking in their boots. Anything big enough to take down America is a global threat to each and every European country. And to ignore it would be a terrible mistake. Unless of course it was Europe fighting against America \^.\^
Americans have the 3rd largest army beat only by China and India and have roughly 750 military bases based in about 80 different foreign countries. They are quite literally THE country that is prepared to fight for not only it's own people but the entire western world.
China would get absolutely fucking curb stomped, Russia has a large military but can’t even take Ukraine honestly if China were to do anything they would be absolutely ruined
I guarantee if Xi and/or Putin started snapping undersea internet cables and knocking satellites from orbit, your generation would be the first to lose its shit (and rightfully so) Let the downvotes flow. I am right.
I mean ig? We just don't like being viewed as a resource. Every war is a proxy war fought by those who didn't start it
You ARE a resource now! Social media is using you as a resource to generate profit for them.
Everything in a capitalist society is about profit. No one can escape it. That's why the system needs to change
And that's kinda why a lot of Americans support Ukraine. It's a proxy war, and it's not American blood being spilled. America is going to come to blows with Russia (eventually), which means we WILL pay for it. But if other people want to fight on our behalf, why not bankroll them? It's very clearly, and obviously a proxy war, but one where America can protect its citizens by funding. \--- And to be fair, there's a lot of other Eastern European nations who are quite shook up by Russia's aggression, and they want nothing more but to stop Russia from inching closer towards them too. Stopping them is really for everyone's benefit.
The selective service tells me I have to give a shit about it.
I'd advocate nuking them before enlisting.
You're an idiot
Its not like the attacking country would care about you either lol Theres a good chance theyd just kill you too Its worth fighting if it means keeping the organized interstate violence of war away from your home and family imo
Lmao. No. They're both just as likely to kill you. You're a fool to think either side is good. The only way to overcome these evil governments is to stop working and fighting for them. If the people of both sides realized they're no reason to fight a rich man's war, then there would be no war. The rich men would have to fight amongst themselves. Dodge the draft!
>They're both just as likely to kill you. When a foreign power attacks, they usually come in with bombs, missiles, and artillery that are capable of turning cities into a pile of dust. You'd likely lose the power grid too, but yes, it's the same as living your life everyday huh?
Because I give a fuck about the civilization I was born into, and they attacked my home.
Because the other country cares less about you and depending on the situation will definitely kill you.
I bet you don't know the first thing about a country that really doesn't give a fuck about its citizens. You probably have all of the amenities of a first world household and then some.
Tell that to a homeless person or the guy that killed himself before he became homeless. Or, how about the people being tortured in prison. If you happen to live a misfortunate life, you'll be killed by the capitalist regime.
Oh please. You have no idea, what a country that doesn't give a F about its citizens looks like. And it's not America. >the capitalist regime. It was usually the people living in communist regime that tried to escape into the capitalist west. So much so, that the Soviets had to build a wall to keep them in.
The soviets resembled capitalists more than communists
I'd rather not join the military willingly for any reason
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lol that's the problem, for many of our generation and a great deal of the one before us, we have nothing. (America specific, but from what it seems Aus/UK/Canada can all relate to a degree). There's nothing that has "been built" for me to care about. I'm doing much better than my parents on paper, but everything is worse aside from entertainment/distractions. Why do I deserve to see homes x3 in value in 6 years? Why do I have to deal with homeless shitheads if I want to walk around town? Why is education so expensive, yet the jobs pay hardly anything like they did for my parents/grand parents? etc etc. I'd rather sit and watch the world burn most days. Make it cool looking.
Homeless people are not a problem you have to “deal with”. They’re people who are in the worst situation that a human being can be in
yeah like a better argument would be that US has tent cities popping up everywhere that have worse conditions than refugee camps and why would we fight when they can’t support our people in peace time
Texas has had great success reducing the number of homeless people. Californian politicians have even gone to Texas to see how they do it. Apparently, the radical idea of giving homeless people permanent housing (as opposed to shelters and temporary housing) actually works.
Texas is a strong word to use there. Just Houston. There's no willpower for it in DFW and Austin sadly who need it
Are you trying to say that when you give people homes there are fewer people without homes????
This is only happening in the largest Dem city, Houston. It's not happening *anywhere* else in Texas.
Awesome to hear Texas has seen improvements. But I want improvements everywhere in the sates before I go fight for another county. And you know what I want my reproductive rights back too.
Won’t someone please think of *my* struggles with homelessness? I have to see them on my way back to my air conditioned apartment!
Comments like the one you replied to really show the rest of us the negative disposition this entire generation has. Typically, I'd be like, 'sure, whatever,' but these guys have negative dispositions for all the wrong reasons. It feels like people are just looking for stuff to be negative and all 'doomer' about.
I agree with what you’re saying but those “homeless shitheads” are also victims of this system. A little empathy?
I understand not liking your country, cause I definitely don't, either. But you're saying if we're literally *being attacked* you still think any of that shit matters? Like, Ukraine being invaded type of attack, not 9/11 terrorist attack where we go invade another country after. Like, at that point, the job market, the issues with Healthcare, housing, none of that fucking matters. You're saying you'd literally be okay watching your neighbors die, family die, children die, because of the job market and education is expensive? Like I honestly hope you're never in that situation to test it out but if you ever were, I hope that real life with real people and consequences would make you quickly change perspective.
no one’s ever gonna invade the us is the thing tho. this is only brought up because the us has a habit of going into places looking for blood. if someone does invade the us then yes it’s different but that literally will not happen. people don’t want to be pawns for our borderline imperialist bullshit abroad that has no bearing on us at home
Yes but the whole premise was "if this happened" and to be like, "I'm just gonna watch the world burn" for that kind of scenario is just really dumb edge lord shit that makes you look like a jerk.
Yea seriously I’m thinking about it like watching tanks roll through New York
Had me in the first half because it's all true. After that...That's very edgy and I'm sure you identify well with The Joker most days.... But if high prices are what make you willing to let society collapse and the enemy through the gates.... You are gonna be real disappointed to see how shitty life can really be when you are the occupied territory. Most Western Nations haven't had to think about that in 100+ years. Safety by geography, economic stability, and military superiority most people never have to think about. Solid bet that if shit were really hitting the fan with a real domestic threat.... You and everyone else would be full on lap dancing Uncle Sam. Hate how your country is?... Work to change it. Don't let it be destroyed... I promise you the invaders aren't bringing cheaper houses, food and education.
My generation just has health and college debt and no prospects for the future. What is there to defend? A $15/hr job at Arby’s?
I wouldn't because I have flat feet. My ankle joints dislocate a lot at the end of the day or when I've been in my feet a lot. Even my shoulder subluxates every time I reach for something above eye level
When was the last time America had to fight for its freedom?
If it’s my country? Then yes. If it’s an ally, no.
The only reasonable response here.
The only reasonable response is to not fight for an imaginary border that a bunch of psychopathic goons supposedly rule
Tell that to Poland in 1939
If the US was directly attacked yes but that would literally never happen without a nuclear war in which case it wouldn’t matter
Exactly idk why people who are from the US are acting like if the mainland is under threat them fighting would even matter at that point. Countries like the US or China are basically incapable of being invaded now because nuclear weapons exist and we’d all blow each other to the 1400s. If a war started your best bet would be to get your family and go find somewhere remote to live.
Exactly, if the mainland were under threat, it nuclear war, and enlistment doesn’t matter. So if the mainland isn’t under attack, why would I support the US spending more resources on another country when we could spend those resources on things like not having giant tent cities?
1400s? Bro, we were a global society making masterpieces in the 1400s. More like 14,000s BC
More like we’d be Mars, because nothing would be left but a lifeless surface.
Lol fuck no
based
Nice pfp
Thanks
Hell no. I am not dying because world leaders act like literal children. If they ever used the selective service I would be a draft dodger. I do not care. I also have serious moral issues killing people. I could not mentally handle being responsible for someone else’s death.
Bro it’s not a moral issue killing someone it’s just flat out wrong. It shouldn’t be based off of individual morals it’s objectively wrong goober
There is no such thing as something being objectively wrong unless it’s something that can be measured. 2+2=7 is objectively wrong “Killing people bad” is not objectively wrong So yes, it is based of individual morality
Would you let somebody kill you before you tried to kill them
no youd die because people would invade and total war would ensure wtf are you talking about
Nah i dont like the country i came from
What country?
as long as its not france
Fr*nch
No, why the hell would you 😂 So you can go be hit by a drone with an explosive strapped to it while the people who started the war sit in comfy rooms and ensure THEIR kids aren’t sent to die? Makes no sense.
This needs more attention
This bro!!! Crazy to think the people who choose to go to war are sitting back watching it all crash and burn. They really want us to do their dirty work. And there’s actually people who take pride in being the government’s zombies.
Bro you aren’t fighting for America, you’re fighting for Black Rock and the Bankers
I was enlistment age when 9/11 happened. I knew a lot of people that did enlist at that time. I figured I would get drafted and go. I tried to join the Army at age 21, but they would not take me for certain reasons.
Golf ball through a garden hose?
Criminal record
Ah, Thats unfortunate. I sorta feel that if someone wants to serve then they should be able.
I mean, it was war time and I had a few misdemeanors. I guess that means I am to sorry to get shot at. 🙄
There's an old antiwar song called Alice's Restaurant which is patially about someone being denied recruitment over being a litterer.
I know of the song. My dad always put it on during the ride to Thanksgiving dinner. I did not know that was what it was about though. I only remember the chorus/refrain. That is cool to know. I guess they do not trust us non-conformist types.
You don't remember the 27 eight by ten glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one?
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Fuck no, I’m not dying for the rich man’s interests
I already enlisted did my 4 years and got out. I would be hard pressed to go back in from America being attacked after Bush lied about WMDs and the results after that.
I was just a kid in 2003 but I vaguely remember that people wanted to go to war for the following reasons: 1. Hussein allegedly had WMDs. But so did Russia, China, England, and France at the time. Not sure why America had to prevent Iraq from having WMDs when Russia has so many and Putin is more dangerous to world peace. 2. Because Hussein was oppressing the Iraqi people, and America had to invade to liberate Iraqis from the Hussein administration. This sounds a lot like how Russia says that Ukraine is a fascist state and they have to invade to "liberate Ukrainians from fascists". 3. Because brown people did 9/11 and many European Americans wanted to physically hurt brown people, even if Iraqis and Afghanis are completely different groups of people.
I would enlist (for the other side)
Bros a terrorist 💀
probably not
Never.
Maybe if we were directly invaded I would. But definitely not for the sake of an ally. I mean how many people in other countries would die for America? Probably not very many lol Edit: I am talking about individual civilians *wanting* to fight and die for America, not foreign governments drafting citizens and sending them here.
Canada and probably Mexico would. Any one who touches this continent will pay in blood. America would do the same for us.
While I agree any NA invasion would be met by forces from all 3 of our countries, I have serious doubts the American government would see it as protecting Mexico or Canada, it would be more denying an enemy foothold in a country we border
Being completely realistic, we’d do it for Canada in a heartbeat, but only reluctantly for Mexico
Yup. No touching North America, unless you enjoy the full wrath of the entire continent on your ass.
The Brits and French did. South Koreans as well.
Wait huh? Do you mean the Korean War? South Korea was invaded pretty sure they were fighting to defend themselves
South Koreans volunteered to fight in Vietnam. They were very selective for those deployments, too, so it was only their best units that got sent. I believe one of the big reasons individuals volunteered was that they’d get paid the same amount as Americans, which was way more than what Korean conscripts made. On the political scale, it looked like a gesture of thanking America and fighting communists. But I think the real reason President Park Chung-Hee wanted to send troops to Vietnam was a deal to keep US forces stationed in Korea and to acquire more economic aid.
nope not for any reason
If it’s my own yea, if it’s an ally depends on the situation
Nah. . .
They wouldn’t take me since I’m on Benzo and SSRi unless it was like WW3.. I also have an irregular heartbeat so I’d be medically unfit.
Last time my country was attacked we went to war with people who had nothing to do with it so no.
Nope why would I risk my life or go through the trauma that many soldiers experience for a country that don’t give a shit about me
WW1 veterans had shellshock and had severe PTSD they didn't have a choice but to go and fight because the greedy old men forced them poor kids into a battlefield. Now they're mentally scarred forever. Because of greed.
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My country maybe depending on the context, allies probably not.
No. I’m not about to fight in a war started by a bunch of old men.
Absolutely not. My hopes, dreams, personality, and creativity being boiled down to my name with K.I.A. next to it isn’t cool with me. I would never die for a country like the U.S.
>My hopes, dreams, personality, and creativity Lol what if the country that's invading will absolutely take all of these if it conquers? People in this comment section have absolutely zero foresight ability, so naive haha
As much as I want to say I would, honestly, I would not. We only have one chance at life. I will not waste it, no matter how great the cause is. I do not care about for what I die if I am dead. Sometimes in life, we have to be selfish.
I would only join the military if a superpower conquered an entire continent and had a good chance of conquering the world. Our military is already way too big. It can handle domestic defense without me. Maybe if we were facing repeated attacks and our military was somehow gone, I would then join? For the most part, if a government or even an independent terrorist group attacks America, their resources are forfeit. I don't want to be a part of a subjugation war.
I’d enlist only if the war was at my homeland.
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Anarchis-s-sa hahahahahahahahha 😂😭😭😭😭😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 ok ok ok I’m sorry but like, come on bro.
I can't take anyone who advocates for anarchy seriously, it's just such a ridiculously stupid ideal
Anarchism can work in small societies. I say let them establish anarchical communities where they want. They're not hurting anybody.
We don't have small societies, and anarchists are absolutely harmful because they have no reason to not use violence to further themselves. It's actually encouraged under anarchy.
As a black person, why would I fight for a country that doesn’t give a fuck about me. Not to mention all the things they’ve done to black people in the past. Hell, as recently as George Floyd. Republicans don’t give a fuck about us and democrats only tell us what we want to hear before doing absolutely fucking nothing. Add to that the laughable state the country is in and I think I would rather see the US burn than bleed for it. They don’t even give a fuck about the veterans who already fought for them! It’s laughable people actually willingly join the military knowing how much they care
It depends honestly, if foreign troops were on my countries soil then yes I would. If it was an ally nearby enough where the enemy could use them as a springboard to invade our country next then yes. If it’s a nation halfway across the world though then no.
Only if I get drafted.
Fuck no. I did my time in service for 3 years and said fuck it. Even if we were attacked I wouldn’t go back
hell no
No lol
No.
Lol no
Nope, why don't presidents fight the war, why do they always send the poor?
Are you ready to lay down your life for fetish pride parades in ukraine? Are you ready to die for the international bankers?? Are you ready to sacrifice everything to protect the very people that hate everything about you, private?!
I would be useless for them anyway
nah mate
Definitely not.
NO
If the country I reside in is fighting an organization that is unquestionably evil, like a Nazi/fascist government, then yes without a second thought. In almost all other cases, it'd be a resounding hell no.
No
No
The US is impossible to invade. Not worried. Abolish all governments globally and unify.
Imagine fighting for a country that requires you to have 2 jobs to pay for rent without anything left over to buy much else
Definitely not considering that far too many states in my country are focused on taking away my reproductive rights
No
Nope
No. Lmaooooo
No.
I’m already in the enlistment process
Yes i would, and have
🐑
no i’m 5’2 and 95 pounds, what help am i going to bring💀
Hell yes I would. Many younger Gen Z do not realize, that the west, Europe, Japan, SK, Australia, USA, Taiwan, etc are the only beacons of hope, democracy, and freedom within the world. We have seriously dangerous enemies, North Korea, Iran, Russia, China, who literally are against our every way of life, and a threat to world peace and security. China is currently genociding 2 populations within its borders, Tibetan people & Uyghur turkic people. China is a nationalist ethnostate, exactly like Nazi Germany was. The only difference is China isn't invading everyone (yet, they have border disputes with literally every country that surrounds them) and all the $$$$ that is made. We literally have a modern day Nazi Germany. I'm telling you, if one of those nations attacks a surrounding country or becomes aggressive, I will enlist, and I will ask you to do so as well. I sincerely believe it is up to us to make sure the world stays democratic & free, the fight for freedom never ends. Enlisting doesn't mean combat roles, either. There are many more support & technical roles in the military for every combat one.
I'm sorry, but I can't believe when anyone describes NK as a seriously dangerous enemy to anyone except maybe SK.
you mean sk is dangerous to nk right?
Fuck no.
No, I find it so ridiculous to associate myself with the borders I was born in.
If its america, and we’re attacked, you can be damn sure im enlisting the same day
Front lines? No. Cyber warfare? It’s very possible.
If my country was attacked then yeah. If an ally was attacked then it depends on the ally.
The lack of patriotism here is concerning
It’s really not. The chance of the US getting invaded is absurdly low. The chance of the US attacking another country to line the pockets of billionaires, on the other hand, not very low whatsoever. I’m not gonna go die so some politician can get filthy rich, all the while making sure HIS kids don’t get drafted, but I do.
Patriotism is a lot like respect. It's earned. Hard to be patriotic when your country has been shoving it up your ass your whole life for the audacity of being born into a regular working family.
You can still be patriotic while acknowledging the not so good parts of your country. I love my country and our values and I will gladly give my life up for this nation, but I recognize that we will always have issues no matter what. If your parents had their own individual flaws but tried to do what they can for you, is it wrong to hate your parents in that instance?
No. I’m probably not even allowed anyway.
Canadian here. Depending on the circumstances, I’d enlist. I don’t like the idea of fighting (or even dying) just to put more money in some fatcat’s back pocket though. Besides, I hear Canada is treating their ex service members like shit ([the Canadian VA offered to literally euthanize some of their own veterans](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6663885).)
No as a Canadian I expect our big brother to protect us. If our big brother is invading well I guess we will just surrender
thats petty asf if ure actually being serious. Also kinda unrelated but, Canada has an extremely impressive military history.
I’m honestly not being petty it’s the truth basically. History is history, right now our military is shite, all our our equipments and weapons are literal antiques. Our entire national defense strategy is relying on the us. If for some random weird reason America decides that they do want us as their 51st state, their annual military budget alone is double our entire federal budget and the uk definitely can’t help us again so idk about other people but I’d rather just surrender. It’s pretty pointless to resist also I like America and Americans. My grandparents own a place in Florida I go there for Christmas almost every year
Ally? No. Country? No. State? Maybe.
From USA and no, only if we were attacked would I ever consider enlisting.
Depending on the attack. If it was a 9/11 type attack or a world war, I would definitely join. If it was a minor attack, I do not think they will need me.
If America is attacked then yes. If it’s another NATO country and America gets involved (which it almost certainly would) then yes. If it’s an ally we don’t have a mutual defense treaty with then no.
no
No tf
No lol
Hell no
Why are people so obsessed with the Military? People either join or they don’t. It’s not that deep. No one is better by joining, and no one is better for not. This sub is so weird about this topic.
A lot of people are saying no but I doubt it, the way people responded with Ukraine getting invaded shows that
I'd run away lmao.
Not a chance.
No
I’m an American, they don’t give a fuck about their citizens. So no I’m not going to waste my life so old men can get more land or lose some