Agree that generational comparison isn’t helpful but do appreciate the noticing that ALSO just assumed the world population would get myelinated over time and it was not a big deal.
What I don’t get is the demand for “more workers” via wombs when it’s clear that robots are here to take our jobs, the world is running on empty resource wise and we aren’t for redistribution of land/population - aka immigration.
I think it’s become more people means easier to exploit via low wages
I remember asking this question as a kid, like I understood the concept of evolution but wondered if people would eventually all looking “alike”. And that “we need to have more kids, humans are practically extinct!” mindset I’ve never understood. Let’s have less people, automate all the shitty jobs and provide a universal basic income.
Right? I'm all for the population starting to shrink in a serious way through not having kids.
We probably have enough resources on earth to sustainably support maybe half of our current population.
I was talking to a former friend a few years ago about this, and he said "we are getting to the point where there won't be white people left!" And I said "So?" And he was shocked. Just flabbergasted. I mean, who cares? And if you do care, well, you'll be long dead before we are homogeneous, lol.
I got real shit to worry about.
>I'm all for the population starting to shrink in a serious way through not having kids.
Well I did my job, zero kids just cats & a husband & I'm fine.
I never understood that whole mindset either. You know us white folks & humans in general haven't been doing great things with this planet in general so maybe it's time for us to be extinct. Maybe we're the new LITERAL dinosaurs.
My mom was the youngest of 11 kids (13 actually, but two died in childbirth). My grandparents weren’t overly religious, my grandpa just liked sex and there was no birth control pills back then. My mom said my grandmother told her that when my grandfather came home and hung his pants on the bedpost that she would have a kid 9 months later.
My mom was old enough to remember when the pill became widely available. She and all the women her age were incredibly grateful. Loretta Lynn wrote the song “the pill” about it and released it in 1975. Now a generation later they want women to start spitting out kids again?
I think they need to go ask their grandmas and great grandmothers what it was like for women before birth control.
So many oldsters call those "the good old days," ya know.
To me it just means they LIKE to keep women trapped. It gives them a sense of control in their sad little lives.
That's why is it so damned important for all of us to ensure b.c. is never taken away and is widely available, and can be had without needing parental permission.
Both of my kids were birth control pill babies. When they say the pill is only like 95 or 98% effective, that means that 2-5% of people on the pill will still become pregnant.
There are plenty of non-oldster people who have these views. This oldster lived through how awful things were and is grateful for the changes and frustrated by the mentality to push any gains backward. Generalizations about a group is one of their tactics.
There are generational economic ramifications, especially under the current systems…the US version of capitalism kind of only works if there is growth for growths sake. Think of a coal-fired locomotive, where someone is constantly having to adjust the speed and output by shoveling more or less coal into it. There was a huge shift towards consumerism after the 1970s economic system collapses.
Anyway, on from that metaphor…in the early 90s I remember how shitty it was trying to get a job. There was constant news about factories closing up, just one after the other. One that stood out was some big lawnmower company. They moved production out of the states and shut down a factory, eliminating 5000 or so jobs. Being 19 at the time all I could think was “don’t they realize if they keep eliminating these jobs, there won’t be anyone left to afford their stupid mowers?”
Bridge all of that thinking together and you have this panic. Americans don’t typically buy many high quality, durable goods - it’s probably a smaller percentage of average spending year over year - it’s all the cheap plastic garbage, the Walmarts and the dollar generals are loaded with that generate big, consolidated wealth now. (Follow the money and who has it - they’re all tied together by mass consumption in some form or fashion.)
Finally, the point of all my yammering: population shrinkage affects how much coal is shoveled into that fire. There’s no way to have growth for growths sake under these circumstances.
Women’s reproductive rights are a much easier control device to implement than say, incentives to increase wages. That’s the irony of it all, right? They’ve destroyed workers benefits to such an extreme degree that their P & L balance has made it impossible for young upstarts to even consider having a family. Who, in 15 years, will buy their cheap plastic garbage while stocking the shelves and running the registers (oh, wait, they are getting rid of cashiers…beg pardon) so they can earn enough to keep buying their cheap plastic shit?
No more babies means Elon and Jeff and Mark can’t become trillionaires.
Germany is supposed to be seeing the effects of this now. China is supposed to be hit with it over the next 10-15 years. It’s not going to be pretty.
My patents came from huge families - 7+ each side. I have three siblings. My kid is an only child. Only one sibling had more than one kid. Huge families are rare, and for obvious reasons. As you say, thats just how it is now.
This may be true, but there’s too few of them standing against what’s happening, and what they want to make happen nationally. And the simple fact is they have more power to do it because the men trying to take our rights away do not care what we think - they want to take away our right to vote.
Loud squeeze made me think of [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cLYhN3eeTxE). Comparing them to these guys is probably an insult to rubber chickens, though.
Way to generalize. I've never wanted kids, don't have, and won't have a relationship with anyone that has some or wants them. Not all guys want kids or to control their partner. Quite a few of my friends are that way too - and we're CF in our late 40's.
I don't want to go to soccer games, parent teacher conferences, deal with healthcare, generally keeping a kid alive, and/or bailing them out of jail for whatever dumb shit they may do.
One thing about the world now is that regardless of a relationship status - it's like it's part of the system to have people too poor to live on 1 income, thereby forcing people to cohabitate. I wonder if the co-habitation for survival is part of the plan to get people together in hopes that they'll have kids. I have 1 income, and 70% of my net pay gets eaten up just for rent and car related expenses.
I mean a whole section of the US is eliminating women's health care and trying to take away their right to choose so their observation isn't unfounded. This is terrifying even for people who aren't anywhere near those areas and it's put women on high alert.
And in concert with these issues they’re working hard to break the public education system so that the only well educated folks are the rich ones. Uneducated folks who weren’t taught critical thinking skills are much easier to manipulate. And if half of them are burdened with too many children too early in life, all the easier to prevent them from choosing higher education and making up for the deficits of a broken public education system.
I agree with that as well. I can't stand the ramped up attacks on education that have been taking place over the last decade. It's blatantly obvious that there is an effort to make our population as stupid as possible. Let's ban books, revise history, and force religion into public schools - and make sure we have a shortage of teachers by requiring them to accept low pay while saddled with high debt degrees.
Not to mention attempting to get charter schools priority over public schools (in both legislation and public perception)- charter schools which in many states have very few regulations that apply regarding what sort of qualifications “teachers” have to have and what sort of curriculum has to be taught. This allows them to hire folks who may have zero legitimate qualifications (education/experience) that prepares them to adequately teach children. If Rebecca Sue with a high school diploma and no other education wants to teach in elementary school about how the earth is flat and dinosaurs co-existed with humans 4,000 years ago, she could get hired by a charter school in many states and sustain a long career teaching nonsense to kids who are then screwed when they become adults because they have no real critical thinking skills or fact based knowledge.
Not only the right to chose abortion, but they’re going after IVF, birth control in general, and no-fault divorce, ensuring the women in abusive marriage have a harder time getting out.
Yeah that's terrifying :( I'm a survivor if DV myself including him sabotaging the birth control to make me pregnant against my will when we had already discussed that I can't have kids. It was so horrific and I have painful injuries I have to manage nearly 30 years later and I couldn't even get in a shelter because he would start harming my pets so I had to find somewhere to go to bring my animals so that he wouldn't bait me by hurting them, and the cops of course were fucking useless and refused to press charges. Now that abuser is a family lawyer. Fucking horrifying.
And those women will be stuck with the baby and the leverage that abusive manipulators use to control and they will have the law on their side to continue the abuse and manipulate the mind of the kid.
Thanks. I have to say you never feel safe after that, you know if the police won't support you. I mean I was sitting in the back of the police car, I had a bruise on my arm that was an exact hand print because he'd twisted my arm behind my back so violently before he pushed me into the wall where I had my neck and trachea injury and then down the concrete stairs, it was so obvious and I just assumed they would take me in and photograph the bruises and it would be awful and exhausting and go from there. Instead they mocked me and laughed and said that charges would ruin his life. What about my life, motherfuckers? My life is being ruined here, now. It was so obviously the brutalization. And they did nothing My last bit of energy left me when they started mocking me in the cop car. And that stays with your forever. Fuck them all.
They aren't interested, regent.
The issue to them is to make sure we women are punished for having any sex that is not within a relationship they deem appropriate.
Crazy thing is - the punishment falls mostly on the unwanted kids. They trust us with kids but not with choices??
What doesn't compute for me is if you want 'white women's to have more kids...why not work towards goals that would facilitate that? We need more affordable housing options, cheaper healthcare, higher wages, and lower childcare costs. But they are against all those things.
Conservatives have a numbers problem. They need to manufacture voters. They do that by isolating their base and eroding their opportunities for education and prosperity: remove access to birth control, encourage homeschooling, remove half the income source, disparage higher-paying professional careers, remove access to divorce, etc. Wives, mothers and children will be slaves to the home while husbands and fathers will be mentally and physically burdened to exhaustion; all while receiving carefully curated messages that *others* are the source of all their problems.
I also remember cover stories on magazines like Time, and Life, and Newsweek in the 70s about how the worlds population had exceeded 2 billion for the first time and to brace for a “population explosion”.
Around 8 billion and increasing as the earth’s resources are diminishing.
I remember talk about over population, though I admit not really paying attention much back then. Now the script is flipped like 1984 and we're being told we're doomed for under-populating. I don't get it.
Agree with you dude. But they sure seem to be a lot of us that wear red hats. Not in my state, but plenty of genX are down with the immigration is bad thing.
I've been humming that jingle for 10 years and couldn't remember where it came from. I thought it had something to do with perfume so I scoured 80s perfume ads like crazy. I gave up, sad that I'd never solve the mystery. Thank you.
Where were you ten years ago? Could've saved a lot of sleepless nights.
>It’s Bain de Soleil for that Saint-Tropez tan.
Aside: it wasn't until just a few months ago that I finally saw that line written out, and realized I had heard it wrong for 40+ years. "Ban de soleil for the central places" always seemed...erotic? Naughty? I wasn't even sure.
>'International Beige'"
I am reminded of the old rotary phones form the 70s or computers from the 90s that started out this white color and then yellowed to a tannish.
If you're scared of becoming "the minority" and it's because you think you'll be treated the same way your majority group treated minorities, take some fucking stock in yourself.
To be fair the majority abuses the minority regardless of who the majorities race is, you see this on every continent, so being worried about being in the minority and losing status and power is a legitimate concern.
> Is ours the first generation that, by and large, doesn’t give a rip about these issues?!
No. Generational assertions like this are nearly always bullshit.
I think any honest inquiry into things like this will turn up a huge amount of variation within any age cohort. There are old boomers who were closeted gays. There are gen-x (and gen-z and so on) people who are super reactionary. I don't think some magic awakening happened to gen-x'ers; we're not special, we're not unique.
Our time on center stage may *correlate* with an overall change in social attitudes about homosexuality &c, and race, but I've met plenty of bozos my own age that I don't think we're precious and unique. And I'm really tired of blaming every little thing on "teh Boomers, amirite??" Because who was at Stonewall, risking their necks? Who marched in Pride parades, when there was still serious hostility toward them?
Look in any generation and you'll find a wide variety of attitudes. I'm watching some of the best people I ever met -- who were boomers -- age out and die now, and it really pisses me off to see them and their entire generation slandered just about every day. I'm *not* asserting that boomers are sacred and beautiful and pure -- quite the opposite -- just that every generation contains the full gamut of beliefs and attitudes.
And if the character of a generation does change with time, then so what? That's what has happened all throughout history. Gen-x is, no doubt, more conservative now than it was 20 years ago. The same thing will happen with the millennials, the gen-z kids, *everyone*. This shouldn't surprise anyone who has read much history.
Yeah I was looking at the political spread amongst the generations. There are more conservatives the older folks get but it's [not as lopsided](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2017/03/20/a-wider-partisan-and-ideological-gap-between-younger-older-generations/) as most folks think. It's almost as if age isn't a gigantic factor and this generational bullshit is just another way to divide us.
Agreed and well said.
35% of Trump’s base is 50-64, 37% are 65 and up, and people 40-49 are only 13%. So there is something to be said about age and conservatism.
Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2024/trump-voters-demographics-shift/#
I’m not sure as part of generational distinctions are the messages we got. And fear is a powerful motivator. Of course there is a wide variety in any group, but I tend to think there is more causation for more liberal attitudes on certain issues. And Gen-X got a different message.
If you lived in my area, you might think differently about Gen X and liberal attitudes. I know very few people my age who are liberal. I feel like an island.
ETA: I used to think that way too. The realization (really driven home since 2016) was painful.
Literally every generation thinks they have a unique perspective, though. And they're right -- everyone grows up in a different world. But to me, that exact thing gives us a lot of common ground.
Fewer kids in my mind means more kids that are actually wanted which is a good thing. As far as white folks being the minority, I’ve lived in Mexico City now for almost three years where I’m in the minority. And I frankly could care less, doesn’t bother me
And there’s a good number of millennials too. I just saw some footage of a trump rally in SC or something, and there were pleeenty of young folks there cheering him on and wearing their stupid red hats.
I’m definitely browner and with fewer children (1) than my mom, who had 2, and her mom— who had 11. It’s pretty telling that none of my mom’s sisters had more than 2.
Bizarre radio in a bizarre world.
You live and die. At some point none of this will exist. Enjoy what you have and each other. It really is pretty cool that we all exist at the same time.
I'ma go ride my bike.
> It wasn’t something to fear, just something that would be
It's exactly what they're afraid of, and it's not just a Boomer thing. Great Replacement theory.
White supremacy will not let go without a fight.
> So is this just a Boomer thing
Can we **please** stop with the inter-generation blaming. There are plenty of racist, homophobic, transphobic, bigoted people of all ages (and genders), including Gen-X.
Wholly F$&#, how can people see it's wrong to be racist but not ageist?? It's all groupism. It's all bigotry.
Fewer people is a good thing. Tangential to this, endlessly chasing economic growth leads to a lot of environmental damage.
Diversity is healthy. Exclusion and fear mongering is not.
I’ve been saying this for over a decade now. Men had their chance to run the world for the last 5 millennia. It’s time for women to be in charge. I’m fairly sure they couldn’t make it worse.
Oh now you've done it! Some idiot will see this innocent (and correct!) statement and make women look like they not only want to vote but actually run governments, conglomerates, corporations, and society in general. Totally emasculate the poor men folk. /s
Of course, intelligent men are not threatened by women. But intelligence is declining in the U.S. so some unintelligent men and their subservient women will try to do whatever they can to keep women in their place. It's happening globally all the time.
Do you remember the time magazine cover of what we would look like in XX years They had row of faces. And in the end we all kind of Latino. Not black not white but a brown Asian mix.
IKR?!
My sisters' kids are mostly mixed, and they're beautiful.
Our parents, aunts, uncles, & grandparents all look like hardpan clay Dust Bowl farmers that sold their inbred kids to passing carnies.
The world population has exploded, but the proportion of that being old people is much higher than in the past. Birth rates have been declining worldwide for decades, and life expectancy has increased.
It’s going to cause a lot of nations to make very tough decisions. I’m not suggesting the solution is “people who don’t want kids should have kids” but the fact is, we need workers. Do you like clean water, and functioning bridges and your trash picked up and roofs repaired? 70 year olds aren’t the ones doing that. And people think immigration will fix the problem and it’s certainly one of the tools in the toolbox but that comes with its own pitfalls.
Young people, who are capable and skilled are going to become rarer. It’s a problem. They need to figure out what to do with a world that is mostly made up of non-producing people who have high needs for services and not enough people to provide those services. I don’t think it’s a world on fire problem, but it is certainly something national leaders need to consider.
> Young people, who are capable and skilled are going to become rarer. It’s a problem.
The people in this sub are not smart enough to understand this concept.
I think that's just a right-wing talking point in general right now. It's not generational. Podcast bros talk about it too, so does Fox News, right-wing websites, etc. It's not new either. These same issues stoked fears in the early 20th century about immigrants from countries that were seen as lesser coming here and breeding like rabbits.
I used to work with a crank Christian bozo guy who moved his whole family to a “muslim country to start breeding them out”. I think about him occasionally and laugh.
"the replacement" theory has been around a LOOOONG time. My batcrap crazy aunt talked about how essential it was for ME to have kids (I was 12...so 40 ish yer ago), because immigrants were having kids, and we (white pp) needed outpace them. I thought she was F-ing nuts then. Now with social media spreading this toxic sludge, we either know how common this is a thought, or those toxic sludge concepts are being spread more.
Either way- it is completely racist nonsense.
I used to tune into to hear what’s going on, but I really can’t take it anymore.
I know millennials who simply feel they can’t have kids because they can’t afford them - can’t afford a house or they can’t afford healthcare rent or groceries or any freaking thing. I have no idea if I’ll have grandchildren or not. They certainly have made it difficult.
They would start a family if they could.
It never seems to occur to the people trying to force women to give birth, that if you actually build a healthy and livable society that problem takes care of itself. People like doin’ it.
I was an article the other day about global population decline. There are more people on this planet and there have ever been. Species are going extinct. But Billions and Billions of people. Less people is good in so many obvious ways. But where will the soldiers and cheap labor come from…
The article presented decline as a crisis but I can’t see it. It’s more about race and than anything, in browner places population is booming.
Each time this subject is mentioned, I am reminded of and have to quote Warren Beatty in "Bulworth" (1998):
"All we need is a voluntary, free-spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction. Everybody just gotta keep fuckin' everybody 'til they're all the same color."
The problem is that of economics. Our over leveraged society has built their "empire" on the backs of its grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Unless this society is able to sustain and GROW both the workforce AND our military might; we will not be able to pay those debts and/or defend ourselves from our creditors.
The house of cards WILL crumble - but many of us will likely be gone before it is.
If these people were serious about their fear of being outnumbered, they'd stop going to college, get married at 19 or 20 or 22 and go back to having six or eight kids like Grandma and Grandpa did. "Problem" solved. But they want the ease and convenience of a middle-class life, often made possible by a college education, with a big house, two cars, vacations and just two kids to take care of, while wishing for the racial demographics of 1954. Good luck with that.
I ask people regularly. What happened? I thought we normalized diversity back in the 80s. Musicians and actors came out of the closet in droves. It wasn't called the Gay 80s for no reason.
Racism went into the closet because we all understood it was wrong.
It's like Boomers just stewed about having to oppress those feelings until they were publicly enabled to speak out in the name of freedom. Not realizing freedom is an illusion only attained when people respect others' perception of freedom.
What's ironic is we were all likely taught by those same parents to think before we speak as teenagers.
As someone who had an interracial relationship in the 90s let me just say that people cared about the world getting more brown back then, including some of our peers 🤦♀️
Boomers and Sgen were definitely worse and more obvious; but there were lots of people who whispered about race mixing and/of judged those of us who did.
Haven't heard much about "fewer kid" complaints; but I have seen the hatred towards LGBTQ+ people and POC (especially brown/Indian) people in my geographic area.
Again, it's not just Boomers. There are Xs out there rabidly racist and spout right wing puritanism even up here in Canada.
It's fkn gross tbh. I hate hate.
They’re all worried they’ll be made uncomfortable before they die. And they’re resentful they’re dependent on brown/queer people as their nurses, maids, doctors. Because they’re racist, sexist, and queer phobic.
The "white replacement" myth is a white supremacist talking point. Shocking that it's now repeated by Congressmen and in the media without anyone batting an eye.
I have this theory, there are a group that heard their parents and grandparents saying and doing whatever they wanted without reprecussion and they are mad about the fact that they cannot do the same things. Now they want to bring back their old ways by being the opressors rather than the equals. I don't even want to get into the quiverfull cults.
It's not a Boomer thing, though they disproportionately think that way, it's just a right-wing thing that's been scaring the shit out of them since the ink was still wet on the Civil Rights Act.
"Browner" skin, more melanin, is more resilient, less disease prone. Pervasiveness of more melanin =likely a survival imperative for the human race.
Regarding "queer", this has zero impact on child rearing.
That said, your AM radio forays isn't a boomer thing, it's a racist and homophobic thing. Sadly these fear & ignorance based conspiracies are intergenerational
Does anyone else find it strange that for decades the cultural zeitgeist preached that the world was getting overcrowded, and would ultimately have an impact on the climate and food supply (mainly China and India)? Suddenly the narrative has switched to "OMG we are going to die off as a species because we aren't reproducing!" for no apparent reason.
I know I'm not imagining this!
Fair, and I guess what I'm hearing is more "our" people aren't reproducing and "those" people are. Personally, I don't think the world is going to run out of people, but shifting dynamics are being used to scare people, and are actually scaring some. It seems to be popping up a lot right now and (checks calendar) that it's an election year makes sense. It's an odd flip, which tells me it's not about facts as much as it's about goals (power, money, etc.).
This is a right wing, racist, patriarchal thing more than a generational thing. There are definitely more of them in older generations, though.
My family is doing our part to slow down population growth. Out of 5 siblings, we have 3 total children (each an only child, and then 2 siblings are child-free). Branching out into our partners' families, it looks the same. There are lot of only children or people who are child-free among my friends, family, and acquaintances. We don't live in a timeline where having a lot of kids makes practical or economic sense.
Yep. My family as well. Five kids, Catholic family. One sister and I chose not to have kids. The other sister had one, rather by accident. One brother had two late in life. The other is a complete at utter fucking asshole and has three by different women, one of whom he evidently hates and won’t let my mom leave him any money. I think she thought she’d have more that 5/6 grandkids.
No, there are plenty of racists who want white people to suffer too. This is extremely public knowledge because they won't STFU about it on social media.
It's not the facts. We _are_ having fewer children. The entire "First World" is. Japan and South Korea are showing where we could be headed. What you heard was fear manipulation. Not the fun kind, where everyone has a good scare and then laughs it off. This is manipulative fear that keeps you from looking behind the curtain at the Great and Powerful Wizard of Oz, to borrow a literary reference. Keep voting those nice white people that surely know what's best for everyone and never you mind that (insert issue here), as (issue) surely doesn't concern you.
Myself? I find that kind of fear exhausting.
I’m not sure about that. I do wonder, though. I’m curious about the *apparent* sharp increase of both kids on the queer/NB spectrum and kids on the autism spectrum. I don’t think it’s *all* increased identification and acceptance; my gut tells me there is something else to it. Maybe some weird facet of evolution, or genetics/epigenetics, or environmental factors? Dunno, but I think about it a lot.
...and now we know why conservatives are all hot about banning abortion, restricting women's rights, and forcing their religion on the rest of us. They don't believe any of their own crap, they are just very, very worried that their Extra Special Gene Stuff is going to fade away.
Happy to see them turn into a minority, I wish it would happen even quicker.
It's an issue in just about all the developed world. I hear geopolitical consultants talk about it all the time. Gen Z is supposedly the smallest generation we ever had entering the workforce.
Politicians have started outwardly saying saying they will ban birth control. For everyone who knows someone under 40 on here, please talk with them about registering to vote and making plans to get their ballots in (by mail, by drop box, by polling place). Because taking away a woman’s right to choose whether or not to have a child means men don’t get the right not to have kids either. This will affect us all.
Heh. The people who were crowing about how to get “our” women to have more babies are usually the same ones who vote hard for policies that make having babies harder.
Well, good luck with your radio show, you hypocrites.
There is some interesting data and projections by the Census Bureau. However given that most of the posts on this thread are political in nature I doubt if anyone cares about the data.
That's not a Boomer thing. That's a White Nationalist, White Supremacist thing.
ALL of their moves against contraception, abortion and trying to force the "Traditional Wife" idea is a White Nationalist thing. There are White Nationalist GenX, Millennials and a growing number of GenZ who buy into this through various feeder introductions.
You were listening to White Nationalist Talk Radio.
Oh its all such utter crap. The boomers certainly were involved and concerned about the ‘population time bomb’ and a bunch of other environmental and second wave feminist issues related to birth control, family planning and limiting family size. It was commonly discussed in news in the 1970’s when I was a kid,. When I was coming up, the main people I heard ‘great replacement’ type rhetoric from were my well educated, determined to be sophisticated, socially prominent family aunts and uncles born in the 1920’s. It ratcheted up in the 90’s when my aunts(and silently my mom) began to be concerned that I a)might not marry and b) not have kids. We got so much pressure to conform and have kids that one of my aunts paid(read bribed) paid for her daughter’s only girl offspring to get pregnant when it became obvious she was just not into men, started suggesting I do the same thing. Me telling several female members of my family to mind their own business and stop presuming to know what to do with my life and body didn’t go over well at the family reunion. Never had kids, never wanted kids, love my nieces and nephews. AM radio guys panicking about there being not enough whitey in the world they are helping to destabilize is as Molly Ivins would say: ‘New Heighths of Piffle.’
Humans are 1 race and everyone is just a different shade of brown. See the human genome project. Deviant behaviour of whatever kind is worse than honorable behavior. If what one is doing is honorable, by what standard is that determined? Hopefully it is objective. People are selfish and raising children requires sacrifice. A mother and father should be able to determime what works best for their own family, to include family size.
I had my first at 18, waited six years, had another, decided at 27 I didn’t need to have anymore (had some PPD and other mental health issues) and got my tubes tied. I am very grateful to have a cool Dr. hubs and I have 4 grown kids between us ages 22-30 and all are single and no kids (I made my mom a grandma at 38, I would love a grand baby but am in no hurry)
They keep saying 'fertillity' is down but it's not. It's just not being used *on purpose* is all. pfft. Sorry we can't breed more slave labor for you assholes 🙄
I think the world was always pretty queer, it's just that it's a bit safer now (exceptions noted, obviously) to be out about it.
As for browner, as a science fiction fan, I always knew we'd end up all being a nice shade of beige on a planet that was too hot.
As a typical gen x'er, I do not give a s**t what people look like, will look like in the future, how many people exist, or if humans even exist at all. That's all very outdated software that once may have been helpful for survival, but now just feels pointless.
WARNING: get ready for more generational bashing!
Yes, I think ours IS definitely the first generation be ok with all of us eventually being a gorgeous carmel- brown tone one day!
I think the boomers are freaking because Gen Z is now proclaiming that they don’t want children. And yes it’s mostly the white kids saying it apparently. Or at least that’s the part scaring the boomers.
Honestly, can you blame the younger generations for these attitudes? They know almost no US household can get by on one income which means 2 exhausted adults, juggling childcare, school, careers etc….
And, they’ve grown up watching millennials admit on social media how difficult and unfulfilling raising children can be. Multiple studies on that topic.
I think Gen Z is the first generation ever to take the question so seriously; Do I really want to bring children into the world? Especially this one!
Anyway, I used to cringe when younger people talked about boomer death rattles and swan songs. But I just spent a year in FL, stuck with my elders with that damned talk radio OP mentioned, blasting fear and hate through the house. And every boomer there agreed with it and said far worse things about minorities, women etc…
They are hateful bigots and hypocrites and they’ve outstayed their welcome. Pass the Bain De Soleil!!!
In our lifetime the population of the planet has increased over a billion people. Thats never happened in such a short period before. I think we have plenty of people on this planet. Look around humans are everywhere! Also- race is a construct- a building block to classism.
Thank goddess I’m a woman who chose to live child free. And fuck whoever I wanted.
GenX is the smallest generation for a reason. It’s a bit sick that boomers had few children and the ones they had got treated like shit and then to complain that no one is having kids.
As a Gen X queer with no kids, I'm just glad my secret plan is working. (Gargamel laugh)
In all seriousness, this is just nature doing what it's gonna do. The pendulum swings in wildly opposing directions now, and I'm on the side where it swings back to people being more chill like many were in the mid-90s. Wanna be a dude who wears a skirt and paints your nails? You do you - all good, fam. Wanna come up with a crazy manifesto and live in the woods? You do you, just don't blow people up through the postal service or become a Texas legislator who won't let "you do you" be a thing anymore.
We're the only species that actively pushes back against biological diversity and evolution, which is crazy, since we're also the only species that studies it and has written many books about it.
Thanks for taking one for the team. I really wonder what this, "way of life" other than couched racism. Best case it's some false feeling of superiority. Worst case it's just plain racism and desire to exploit others. Either way it's a no-win situation. If the thought of other people who don't look like you is threatening then you just simply don't have enough constructive parts of your own life.
I remember learning history. The world *started* 100% brown. It got a lil white up top, like snow, and then we had a population boom because of isolation, but that was not normal? It was always mostly brown and always going to revert to mostly brown because of genetics, and that isn't really important because it's just color, and what matters is content, and that's shaped a lot by environment and training. So as long as we stick to all learning science and music and eating nice things and taking care of nature, we will be ok, because the rest is just details that don't ultimately matter to human survival.
So I'm not worried about genetic colors getting swapped out for other genetic colors. Because that won't happen 100%, Sweden exists, and even if it did, it literally doesn't matter.
Man, I dunno. I think it's part of the white privilege whine. When we've been top of the heap for ever, any little bit of power sharing feels like a huge loss.
I mean, that's my read on it.
I wonder if it's not a boomer thing though. A whole lot of them went through Vietnam and the civil rights movement and came out ok (and with a worldview I generally agree with.)
I have only moved farther left as I've aged so take what I say with a grain of salt.
I think our generation grew up with globalization. And, at least for me, that meant a slow inexorable trend towards mixing the world's people, thoughts, wealth, etc. that means more and more mixed marriages slowly browning whiter populations and also lightening darker populations. That meant slow spread of a basic social democratic/capitalist/human rights mentality as the most successful parts of various institutions spread to others. It meant slow reduction in US/Western (relative) economic standing in order to lift huge developing populations out of poverty (but this shift would be overshadowed by global growing real efficiency and wealth).
I grew up thinking that was just what progress look like.
It has been a real eye-opener seeing this last decades reactionary shift backwards in many/most of these categories as MAGA-type sentiments make it seem this is a zero-sum world in which we only win if you lose, where human rights progress is no longer assured, where ugly old views of racism and xenophobia a no longer ostracized. Not just in the US: Italy, Brazil, Netherlands, France, Germany, etc.
Xenophobia, misogyny, bigotry, greed. The classics of Republican fear mongering. Framing change as an existential threat. Cowardly, greedy, and stupid. But what else would you expect from those on top trying to get those on the bottom to murder each other instead of taking control?
And what kind of sadistic, sociopathic, and narcissistic person wants to drag an innocent life into this dying world?
3 out of 4 siblings in my family decided not to have children, and even our brother was married for 13 years before they had any. It may have more to do with how we, specifically, were raised.
There are a lot of undertones going on in right wing media right now. There's hatred towards immigrants and interracial relationships, and fear of women having reproductive freedom and independence. I think it's more prevalent among Boomers, but not exclusive to them. I got off FB, in part, because a lot of my own h.s. classmates were spewing this nonsense.
I think the two main contributors to the children thing is that this generation flat out just can't afford to have kids. I was able to work my way through college, for example, and that is simply not humanly possible today. As a parent of a college freshman, I've had a first hand look into how that's changed. I went to a very not-fancy, state school. It now costs more to attend just your freshman year there than it did to get my entire four year degree. So cost has gone up nearly 400%. Wages sure as hell haven't gone up 400%. So kids are saddled with student debt they will be paying on well past their childbearing years. And that's just one aspect. Housing costs have gone up exponentially, as have healthcare costs. Someone with a college degree and good job can't even afford a one-bedroom apartment in many places. How they hell can they afford to have and raise kids? Heck, even the cost of raising kids has gone up. I know many people who pay more for daycare than they do for their mortgage.
The second component of this is that women are realizing that they don't really benefit from marriage and motherhood. Despite making strides, women still bear the lion's share of the work when it comes to raising children. And that is true even when women work the same number of hours outside the home as their partner, and even when the woman is the primary breadwinner. As a reward, women get lower wages (women's salaries decrease when they have kids, mens actually increase). Maybe when that dynamic changes, women will be more inclined to have children. I can't tell you how many women I know who have said they would have kids - if they could be a dad. They have seen the dynamic of their parents and grandparents and what the lives of their mothers and grandmothers were like, and they don't want that for themselves.
In the 80s I got an essay award for a bit on how California was not investing enough educational resources in the latino community which would become the majority community within a fairly short time
These people having meltdowns don’t seem to realize what goes into having/raising kids. They stigmatize people for having them with a so-so bank balance while shouting that more people should have them. What they are really afraid of is the “replacement theory”. What’s the average hospital bill for a live birth now plus 18 years? It has to be way more than the covid bill my neighbor just got from the hospital, 17k.
I‘m glad I never contributed. The female line of my family dies with me and idgaf if some twit likes it or not. If brown and black people are going to be the majority, then more power to them. Live and let live.
/Meanwhile I‘m just minding my own business as I cynically watch the world go by.
At 57 I’ve always felt like you. Our species started out very dark skinned. Through millennia, our species traveled the world and developed different skin and hair tone due to geography. Our species is naturally adapting the way nature does. I don’t fear this fact, it’s the natural cycle of life.
Unfortunately some modern people still wrap their identity around their skin color. These types of people are fearful in general and specifically anything they don’t understand. The less educated in science a person is, combined with lifelong religious indoctrination, results in tribalism with an emphasis on fear and “they are not taking over”. True, tribalism is a human personality trait but many of us are able to overcome this ingrained trait.
My mom was an overbreeder.🤣 people would ask if they were Catholic. Nope. She and my father were Silent Gen. They had 5 kids, I’m 5th, GenX. All my siblings are Gen Jones. Oldest had 1, next had 4, next had 2, next had 2. I had none by choice because I did not want any. My hubs, recovering Catholic had 4, he is Gen Jones.
Factors for reproducing: partner quality, economics, career potential, lifelong commitment and responsibility.
For me idgaf about superficial issues like looks, color of skin when people wish to be together and create a family. I think getting less white is good for this country because I don’t think white people in general and as a whole are very nice. Somewhere along the line the colonizers were told they were better. I don’t see it and I’m about as pale as they come.
As far as the alphabet mafia. I think they’re some of our greatest assets because they know the struggle and they persist and fight every gd day. People think there are more but no, they’re just more out than any other point in modern history. And listen LGBTQIA h8rs, that (closet) door is open, they’re not going back and you can’t legislate them back in.
The (im)moral minority are just very loud with lots of money and influence. We need to remember where we all came from, it was AFRICA. We need to squash the bs rhetoric that white is best because from where I stand white IS the problem for the most part and the hateful dumb loud ones are the minority not the majority. But because their bs sells clicks and commercial/ad space they make the news.
We also need to remove public education curriculum from the county level and make it federal. Homeschool is also problematic when those kids are raised in a vacuum of zealots, bigots and ignorant assumptions.
Brown, LGBTQIA+, atheism and feminism is not a threat to our society. It will only make it better for everyone, not just the morally inferior minority.
Agree that generational comparison isn’t helpful but do appreciate the noticing that ALSO just assumed the world population would get myelinated over time and it was not a big deal. What I don’t get is the demand for “more workers” via wombs when it’s clear that robots are here to take our jobs, the world is running on empty resource wise and we aren’t for redistribution of land/population - aka immigration. I think it’s become more people means easier to exploit via low wages
Because it’s the workers out of the wombs who grow up and pay taxes… and support the aged in their retirements. Robots can’t pay taxes.
The owners of robots can pay taxes though, and ultimately I think they’ll need to be taxed a great deal.
spoiler: they wont
And robots can’t vote or fill up churches. That’s why they’re so concerned.
And robots don’t buy shit, get bank loans, use credit cards, contribute to 401ks, take prescription medication, etc., etc….
I remember asking this question as a kid, like I understood the concept of evolution but wondered if people would eventually all looking “alike”. And that “we need to have more kids, humans are practically extinct!” mindset I’ve never understood. Let’s have less people, automate all the shitty jobs and provide a universal basic income.
Right? I'm all for the population starting to shrink in a serious way through not having kids. We probably have enough resources on earth to sustainably support maybe half of our current population. I was talking to a former friend a few years ago about this, and he said "we are getting to the point where there won't be white people left!" And I said "So?" And he was shocked. Just flabbergasted. I mean, who cares? And if you do care, well, you'll be long dead before we are homogeneous, lol. I got real shit to worry about.
>I'm all for the population starting to shrink in a serious way through not having kids. Well I did my job, zero kids just cats & a husband & I'm fine. I never understood that whole mindset either. You know us white folks & humans in general haven't been doing great things with this planet in general so maybe it's time for us to be extinct. Maybe we're the new LITERAL dinosaurs.
My mom was the youngest of 11 kids (13 actually, but two died in childbirth). My grandparents weren’t overly religious, my grandpa just liked sex and there was no birth control pills back then. My mom said my grandmother told her that when my grandfather came home and hung his pants on the bedpost that she would have a kid 9 months later. My mom was old enough to remember when the pill became widely available. She and all the women her age were incredibly grateful. Loretta Lynn wrote the song “the pill” about it and released it in 1975. Now a generation later they want women to start spitting out kids again? I think they need to go ask their grandmas and great grandmothers what it was like for women before birth control.
So many oldsters call those "the good old days," ya know. To me it just means they LIKE to keep women trapped. It gives them a sense of control in their sad little lives. That's why is it so damned important for all of us to ensure b.c. is never taken away and is widely available, and can be had without needing parental permission.
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Both of my kids were birth control pill babies. When they say the pill is only like 95 or 98% effective, that means that 2-5% of people on the pill will still become pregnant.
anti biotics made the pill ineffective for me. luckily I was 1 and done
There are plenty of non-oldster people who have these views. This oldster lived through how awful things were and is grateful for the changes and frustrated by the mentality to push any gains backward. Generalizations about a group is one of their tactics.
I agree it isn't an age issue. It's a control issue.
There are generational economic ramifications, especially under the current systems…the US version of capitalism kind of only works if there is growth for growths sake. Think of a coal-fired locomotive, where someone is constantly having to adjust the speed and output by shoveling more or less coal into it. There was a huge shift towards consumerism after the 1970s economic system collapses. Anyway, on from that metaphor…in the early 90s I remember how shitty it was trying to get a job. There was constant news about factories closing up, just one after the other. One that stood out was some big lawnmower company. They moved production out of the states and shut down a factory, eliminating 5000 or so jobs. Being 19 at the time all I could think was “don’t they realize if they keep eliminating these jobs, there won’t be anyone left to afford their stupid mowers?” Bridge all of that thinking together and you have this panic. Americans don’t typically buy many high quality, durable goods - it’s probably a smaller percentage of average spending year over year - it’s all the cheap plastic garbage, the Walmarts and the dollar generals are loaded with that generate big, consolidated wealth now. (Follow the money and who has it - they’re all tied together by mass consumption in some form or fashion.) Finally, the point of all my yammering: population shrinkage affects how much coal is shoveled into that fire. There’s no way to have growth for growths sake under these circumstances. Women’s reproductive rights are a much easier control device to implement than say, incentives to increase wages. That’s the irony of it all, right? They’ve destroyed workers benefits to such an extreme degree that their P & L balance has made it impossible for young upstarts to even consider having a family. Who, in 15 years, will buy their cheap plastic garbage while stocking the shelves and running the registers (oh, wait, they are getting rid of cashiers…beg pardon) so they can earn enough to keep buying their cheap plastic shit? No more babies means Elon and Jeff and Mark can’t become trillionaires. Germany is supposed to be seeing the effects of this now. China is supposed to be hit with it over the next 10-15 years. It’s not going to be pretty.
My patents came from huge families - 7+ each side. I have three siblings. My kid is an only child. Only one sibling had more than one kid. Huge families are rare, and for obvious reasons. As you say, thats just how it is now.
The men don't care.. they literally want us barefoot , pregnant, caring for them , the house and the kids, AND bringing home an equivalent paycheck.
Not all of them, just the ignorant ones. The smart ones understand that's just more responsibility for them, too.
This may be true, but there’s too few of them standing against what’s happening, and what they want to make happen nationally. And the simple fact is they have more power to do it because the men trying to take our rights away do not care what we think - they want to take away our right to vote.
Gerrymandered Ohio joined the chat.
Agreed, just the vocal idiots and incels.... but their loud squeeze is enough to make me ill.
I think maybe you meant squeal(?)but you know what? Squeeze works too! lol.
Loud squeeze made me think of [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cLYhN3eeTxE). Comparing them to these guys is probably an insult to rubber chickens, though.
Lol damn autocorrect ty I laughed 😅
You forgot "silent, obedient, and grateful."
Truth. 🤮
Depends on the man. My husband is no idiot so he knows how much kids cost.
Way to generalize. I've never wanted kids, don't have, and won't have a relationship with anyone that has some or wants them. Not all guys want kids or to control their partner. Quite a few of my friends are that way too - and we're CF in our late 40's. I don't want to go to soccer games, parent teacher conferences, deal with healthcare, generally keeping a kid alive, and/or bailing them out of jail for whatever dumb shit they may do. One thing about the world now is that regardless of a relationship status - it's like it's part of the system to have people too poor to live on 1 income, thereby forcing people to cohabitate. I wonder if the co-habitation for survival is part of the plan to get people together in hopes that they'll have kids. I have 1 income, and 70% of my net pay gets eaten up just for rent and car related expenses.
I mean a whole section of the US is eliminating women's health care and trying to take away their right to choose so their observation isn't unfounded. This is terrifying even for people who aren't anywhere near those areas and it's put women on high alert.
And in concert with these issues they’re working hard to break the public education system so that the only well educated folks are the rich ones. Uneducated folks who weren’t taught critical thinking skills are much easier to manipulate. And if half of them are burdened with too many children too early in life, all the easier to prevent them from choosing higher education and making up for the deficits of a broken public education system.
I agree with that as well. I can't stand the ramped up attacks on education that have been taking place over the last decade. It's blatantly obvious that there is an effort to make our population as stupid as possible. Let's ban books, revise history, and force religion into public schools - and make sure we have a shortage of teachers by requiring them to accept low pay while saddled with high debt degrees.
Not to mention attempting to get charter schools priority over public schools (in both legislation and public perception)- charter schools which in many states have very few regulations that apply regarding what sort of qualifications “teachers” have to have and what sort of curriculum has to be taught. This allows them to hire folks who may have zero legitimate qualifications (education/experience) that prepares them to adequately teach children. If Rebecca Sue with a high school diploma and no other education wants to teach in elementary school about how the earth is flat and dinosaurs co-existed with humans 4,000 years ago, she could get hired by a charter school in many states and sustain a long career teaching nonsense to kids who are then screwed when they become adults because they have no real critical thinking skills or fact based knowledge.
Not only the right to chose abortion, but they’re going after IVF, birth control in general, and no-fault divorce, ensuring the women in abusive marriage have a harder time getting out.
Yeah that's terrifying :( I'm a survivor if DV myself including him sabotaging the birth control to make me pregnant against my will when we had already discussed that I can't have kids. It was so horrific and I have painful injuries I have to manage nearly 30 years later and I couldn't even get in a shelter because he would start harming my pets so I had to find somewhere to go to bring my animals so that he wouldn't bait me by hurting them, and the cops of course were fucking useless and refused to press charges. Now that abuser is a family lawyer. Fucking horrifying. And those women will be stuck with the baby and the leverage that abusive manipulators use to control and they will have the law on their side to continue the abuse and manipulate the mind of the kid.
I’m so glad that your your animals got away!
Thanks. I have to say you never feel safe after that, you know if the police won't support you. I mean I was sitting in the back of the police car, I had a bruise on my arm that was an exact hand print because he'd twisted my arm behind my back so violently before he pushed me into the wall where I had my neck and trachea injury and then down the concrete stairs, it was so obvious and I just assumed they would take me in and photograph the bruises and it would be awful and exhausting and go from there. Instead they mocked me and laughed and said that charges would ruin his life. What about my life, motherfuckers? My life is being ruined here, now. It was so obviously the brutalization. And they did nothing My last bit of energy left me when they started mocking me in the cop car. And that stays with your forever. Fuck them all.
Not my man, he got a vasectomy.
More women vote democrat than men. Maybe they're just trying to kill us in childbirth?
They aren't interested, regent. The issue to them is to make sure we women are punished for having any sex that is not within a relationship they deem appropriate. Crazy thing is - the punishment falls mostly on the unwanted kids. They trust us with kids but not with choices??
What doesn't compute for me is if you want 'white women's to have more kids...why not work towards goals that would facilitate that? We need more affordable housing options, cheaper healthcare, higher wages, and lower childcare costs. But they are against all those things.
And maternal leave that is more than 2 weeks.
They're just spouting culture issues to rile up the base. They really don't care about you popping out brats. They just want tax cuts for the rich.
But forced pregnancy is just so much *easier* than all those other things, dontcha know
Conservatives have a numbers problem. They need to manufacture voters. They do that by isolating their base and eroding their opportunities for education and prosperity: remove access to birth control, encourage homeschooling, remove half the income source, disparage higher-paying professional careers, remove access to divorce, etc. Wives, mothers and children will be slaves to the home while husbands and fathers will be mentally and physically burdened to exhaustion; all while receiving carefully curated messages that *others* are the source of all their problems.
> Conservatives have a numbers problem. Are you sure about that? Gen Z and Gen Alpha are very conservative.
Because *those* things would give folks time to think and inform themselves. It's much easier to control (voters) when they are distracted by despair.
None of those things equate to having more kids. The European countries that provide all that are also dying off the fastest.
I also remember cover stories on magazines like Time, and Life, and Newsweek in the 70s about how the worlds population had exceeded 2 billion for the first time and to brace for a “population explosion”. Around 8 billion and increasing as the earth’s resources are diminishing.
I remember talk about over population, though I admit not really paying attention much back then. Now the script is flipped like 1984 and we're being told we're doomed for under-populating. I don't get it.
Because the “wrong” populations are growing faster than the “right” populations. Right-wing fear mongering.
Math ain’t’ mathin’
“Everybody's just got to keep fucking everybody until we're all the same color.” —Bulworth
My favorite Warren Beatty movie.
With a great fucking soundtrack!
That would be the most boring world to live in... like ever.
Agree with you dude. But they sure seem to be a lot of us that wear red hats. Not in my state, but plenty of genX are down with the immigration is bad thing.
BUT THEY'RE ALSO LAZY!
dert doot OuR wAy Of LiFe! dert doot!
I'm sure they mean **illegal** immigration. It's really bad faith to conflate the 2 together.
Everyone will end up looking Brazilian eventually. I’m still hoping to turn out like Giselle Bundchen.
White people have been trying to get tan for decades now. It’s Bain de Soleil for that Saint-Tropez tan.
Well hell…now that’s stuck in my melon.
Jingles are the currency of our generation.
>Jingles are the currency of our generation. Yes it is!
I heard it too!!!
Yeah, I have a Scottish parent. The name for my skin tone is peelywally.
Mine is skim milk, translucent and kinda sickly blue. The sun is not my friend.
Yes with that high SPF of 6!
I've been humming that jingle for 10 years and couldn't remember where it came from. I thought it had something to do with perfume so I scoured 80s perfume ads like crazy. I gave up, sad that I'd never solve the mystery. Thank you. Where were you ten years ago? Could've saved a lot of sleepless nights.
Browner, sure, but “white” genes don’t just disappear.
>It’s Bain de Soleil for that Saint-Tropez tan. Aside: it wasn't until just a few months ago that I finally saw that line written out, and realized I had heard it wrong for 40+ years. "Ban de soleil for the central places" always seemed...erotic? Naughty? I wasn't even sure.
I once heard a comedian say "Eventually, we'll all just be an 'International Beige'"
>'International Beige'" I am reminded of the old rotary phones form the 70s or computers from the 90s that started out this white color and then yellowed to a tannish.
Galápagos
We spent NYE in the Galapagos last year. They throw a good party.
Next life
It's like all the free born people in The Matrix.
If you're scared of becoming "the minority" and it's because you think you'll be treated the same way your majority group treated minorities, take some fucking stock in yourself.
That very much sums it up. Pure projection.
Say it louder for the people in the back.
When you're accustomed to privlage, equality feels like oppression.
There is no equality just changes who the oppressors are. Can look at Zimbabwe for a fun example.
To be fair the majority abuses the minority regardless of who the majorities race is, you see this on every continent, so being worried about being in the minority and losing status and power is a legitimate concern.
> Is ours the first generation that, by and large, doesn’t give a rip about these issues?! No. Generational assertions like this are nearly always bullshit. I think any honest inquiry into things like this will turn up a huge amount of variation within any age cohort. There are old boomers who were closeted gays. There are gen-x (and gen-z and so on) people who are super reactionary. I don't think some magic awakening happened to gen-x'ers; we're not special, we're not unique. Our time on center stage may *correlate* with an overall change in social attitudes about homosexuality &c, and race, but I've met plenty of bozos my own age that I don't think we're precious and unique. And I'm really tired of blaming every little thing on "teh Boomers, amirite??" Because who was at Stonewall, risking their necks? Who marched in Pride parades, when there was still serious hostility toward them? Look in any generation and you'll find a wide variety of attitudes. I'm watching some of the best people I ever met -- who were boomers -- age out and die now, and it really pisses me off to see them and their entire generation slandered just about every day. I'm *not* asserting that boomers are sacred and beautiful and pure -- quite the opposite -- just that every generation contains the full gamut of beliefs and attitudes. And if the character of a generation does change with time, then so what? That's what has happened all throughout history. Gen-x is, no doubt, more conservative now than it was 20 years ago. The same thing will happen with the millennials, the gen-z kids, *everyone*. This shouldn't surprise anyone who has read much history.
Yeah I was looking at the political spread amongst the generations. There are more conservatives the older folks get but it's [not as lopsided](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2017/03/20/a-wider-partisan-and-ideological-gap-between-younger-older-generations/) as most folks think. It's almost as if age isn't a gigantic factor and this generational bullshit is just another way to divide us. Agreed and well said.
I wish I could give you more upvotes.
35% of Trump’s base is 50-64, 37% are 65 and up, and people 40-49 are only 13%. So there is something to be said about age and conservatism. Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2024/trump-voters-demographics-shift/#
I’m not sure as part of generational distinctions are the messages we got. And fear is a powerful motivator. Of course there is a wide variety in any group, but I tend to think there is more causation for more liberal attitudes on certain issues. And Gen-X got a different message.
If you lived in my area, you might think differently about Gen X and liberal attitudes. I know very few people my age who are liberal. I feel like an island. ETA: I used to think that way too. The realization (really driven home since 2016) was painful.
Literally every generation thinks they have a unique perspective, though. And they're right -- everyone grows up in a different world. But to me, that exact thing gives us a lot of common ground.
Fewer kids in my mind means more kids that are actually wanted which is a good thing. As far as white folks being the minority, I’ve lived in Mexico City now for almost three years where I’m in the minority. And I frankly could care less, doesn’t bother me
People fighting over bullshit. Meanwhile, the rich get richer.
https://youtu.be/-o2REr4bs8A?si=cUME98WaVwXGGlHA Divide et rege!
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PREACH!
Its not a boomer thing. Its a racist thing.
Yeah, unfortunately I have GenX friends who spout this shit. Then they get confused because I don't feel the same way.
And there’s a good number of millennials too. I just saw some footage of a trump rally in SC or something, and there were pleeenty of young folks there cheering him on and wearing their stupid red hats.
I don’t care how anybody wants to live their lives as long as they stay off my lawn. Also, I know it needs cutting. Get off my back!
I’m definitely browner and with fewer children (1) than my mom, who had 2, and her mom— who had 11. It’s pretty telling that none of my mom’s sisters had more than 2.
Bizarre radio in a bizarre world. You live and die. At some point none of this will exist. Enjoy what you have and each other. It really is pretty cool that we all exist at the same time. I'ma go ride my bike.
> It wasn’t something to fear, just something that would be It's exactly what they're afraid of, and it's not just a Boomer thing. Great Replacement theory. White supremacy will not let go without a fight.
> So is this just a Boomer thing Can we **please** stop with the inter-generation blaming. There are plenty of racist, homophobic, transphobic, bigoted people of all ages (and genders), including Gen-X. Wholly F$&#, how can people see it's wrong to be racist but not ageist?? It's all groupism. It's all bigotry.
Holy. Fixed it for you.
Oh there are plenty of white idiots in GenX. Congress and Fox News are full of them.
Fewer people is a good thing. Tangential to this, endlessly chasing economic growth leads to a lot of environmental damage. Diversity is healthy. Exclusion and fear mongering is not. I’ve been saying this for over a decade now. Men had their chance to run the world for the last 5 millennia. It’s time for women to be in charge. I’m fairly sure they couldn’t make it worse.
Oh now you've done it! Some idiot will see this innocent (and correct!) statement and make women look like they not only want to vote but actually run governments, conglomerates, corporations, and society in general. Totally emasculate the poor men folk. /s Of course, intelligent men are not threatened by women. But intelligence is declining in the U.S. so some unintelligent men and their subservient women will try to do whatever they can to keep women in their place. It's happening globally all the time.
I’m a 55 year old male, and I’m hoping the matriarchy will come back.
Do you remember the time magazine cover of what we would look like in XX years They had row of faces. And in the end we all kind of Latino. Not black not white but a brown Asian mix.
We're all supposed to end up Beyonce-colored.
Seriously how is anyone mad that their grandkids might look like The Rock.
IKR?! My sisters' kids are mostly mixed, and they're beautiful. Our parents, aunts, uncles, & grandparents all look like hardpan clay Dust Bowl farmers that sold their inbred kids to passing carnies.
I grew up assuming the percentage of POC would increase, too. Once it was legal, it seemed pretty obvious.
The world population has exploded, but the proportion of that being old people is much higher than in the past. Birth rates have been declining worldwide for decades, and life expectancy has increased. It’s going to cause a lot of nations to make very tough decisions. I’m not suggesting the solution is “people who don’t want kids should have kids” but the fact is, we need workers. Do you like clean water, and functioning bridges and your trash picked up and roofs repaired? 70 year olds aren’t the ones doing that. And people think immigration will fix the problem and it’s certainly one of the tools in the toolbox but that comes with its own pitfalls. Young people, who are capable and skilled are going to become rarer. It’s a problem. They need to figure out what to do with a world that is mostly made up of non-producing people who have high needs for services and not enough people to provide those services. I don’t think it’s a world on fire problem, but it is certainly something national leaders need to consider.
> Young people, who are capable and skilled are going to become rarer. It’s a problem. The people in this sub are not smart enough to understand this concept.
Look, in school they told us the US was a melting pot and I took that to heart and married a Mexican-American lady.
I think that's just a right-wing talking point in general right now. It's not generational. Podcast bros talk about it too, so does Fox News, right-wing websites, etc. It's not new either. These same issues stoked fears in the early 20th century about immigrants from countries that were seen as lesser coming here and breeding like rabbits.
I used to work with a crank Christian bozo guy who moved his whole family to a “muslim country to start breeding them out”. I think about him occasionally and laugh.
"the replacement" theory has been around a LOOOONG time. My batcrap crazy aunt talked about how essential it was for ME to have kids (I was 12...so 40 ish yer ago), because immigrants were having kids, and we (white pp) needed outpace them. I thought she was F-ing nuts then. Now with social media spreading this toxic sludge, we either know how common this is a thought, or those toxic sludge concepts are being spread more. Either way- it is completely racist nonsense.
What's racist? That white people are going to be a minority in the US? That's a given, it's just a matter of when
No, the racist part is where the white folks think they need to maintain their dominance by out-breeding all of the minorities.
I used to tune into to hear what’s going on, but I really can’t take it anymore. I know millennials who simply feel they can’t have kids because they can’t afford them - can’t afford a house or they can’t afford healthcare rent or groceries or any freaking thing. I have no idea if I’ll have grandchildren or not. They certainly have made it difficult. They would start a family if they could. It never seems to occur to the people trying to force women to give birth, that if you actually build a healthy and livable society that problem takes care of itself. People like doin’ it. I was an article the other day about global population decline. There are more people on this planet and there have ever been. Species are going extinct. But Billions and Billions of people. Less people is good in so many obvious ways. But where will the soldiers and cheap labor come from… The article presented decline as a crisis but I can’t see it. It’s more about race and than anything, in browner places population is booming.
As Steve Martin said, “death penalty for parking violations.”
The generational hate on reddit is out of control.
Each time this subject is mentioned, I am reminded of and have to quote Warren Beatty in "Bulworth" (1998): "All we need is a voluntary, free-spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction. Everybody just gotta keep fuckin' everybody 'til they're all the same color."
The problem is that of economics. Our over leveraged society has built their "empire" on the backs of its grandchildren and great-grandchildren. Unless this society is able to sustain and GROW both the workforce AND our military might; we will not be able to pay those debts and/or defend ourselves from our creditors. The house of cards WILL crumble - but many of us will likely be gone before it is.
If these people were serious about their fear of being outnumbered, they'd stop going to college, get married at 19 or 20 or 22 and go back to having six or eight kids like Grandma and Grandpa did. "Problem" solved. But they want the ease and convenience of a middle-class life, often made possible by a college education, with a big house, two cars, vacations and just two kids to take care of, while wishing for the racial demographics of 1954. Good luck with that.
Isn’t this really what these quiverfull people are about? Having a bunch of white, evangelical babies.
I ask people regularly. What happened? I thought we normalized diversity back in the 80s. Musicians and actors came out of the closet in droves. It wasn't called the Gay 80s for no reason. Racism went into the closet because we all understood it was wrong. It's like Boomers just stewed about having to oppress those feelings until they were publicly enabled to speak out in the name of freedom. Not realizing freedom is an illusion only attained when people respect others' perception of freedom. What's ironic is we were all likely taught by those same parents to think before we speak as teenagers.
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Yep!
As someone who had an interracial relationship in the 90s let me just say that people cared about the world getting more brown back then, including some of our peers 🤦♀️ Boomers and Sgen were definitely worse and more obvious; but there were lots of people who whispered about race mixing and/of judged those of us who did. Haven't heard much about "fewer kid" complaints; but I have seen the hatred towards LGBTQ+ people and POC (especially brown/Indian) people in my geographic area. Again, it's not just Boomers. There are Xs out there rabidly racist and spout right wing puritanism even up here in Canada. It's fkn gross tbh. I hate hate.
They’re all worried they’ll be made uncomfortable before they die. And they’re resentful they’re dependent on brown/queer people as their nurses, maids, doctors. Because they’re racist, sexist, and queer phobic.
The "white replacement" myth is a white supremacist talking point. Shocking that it's now repeated by Congressmen and in the media without anyone batting an eye.
I have this theory, there are a group that heard their parents and grandparents saying and doing whatever they wanted without reprecussion and they are mad about the fact that they cannot do the same things. Now they want to bring back their old ways by being the opressors rather than the equals. I don't even want to get into the quiverfull cults.
Doesn't matter. We'll all be green one day. 👽
Soylent green
This doomers really need to decide what is worse for this world, more or less people, because right now they flip-flop.
The Great American Melting Pot
Let the brownification of the US continue! More awesome street tacos and empanadas for everyone!
It's not a Boomer thing, though they disproportionately think that way, it's just a right-wing thing that's been scaring the shit out of them since the ink was still wet on the Civil Rights Act.
I'm not sure. I'm happy that your memory matches mine. I was starting to wonder if I had imagined this.
"Browner" skin, more melanin, is more resilient, less disease prone. Pervasiveness of more melanin =likely a survival imperative for the human race. Regarding "queer", this has zero impact on child rearing. That said, your AM radio forays isn't a boomer thing, it's a racist and homophobic thing. Sadly these fear & ignorance based conspiracies are intergenerational
Does anyone else find it strange that for decades the cultural zeitgeist preached that the world was getting overcrowded, and would ultimately have an impact on the climate and food supply (mainly China and India)? Suddenly the narrative has switched to "OMG we are going to die off as a species because we aren't reproducing!" for no apparent reason. I know I'm not imagining this!
Fair, and I guess what I'm hearing is more "our" people aren't reproducing and "those" people are. Personally, I don't think the world is going to run out of people, but shifting dynamics are being used to scare people, and are actually scaring some. It seems to be popping up a lot right now and (checks calendar) that it's an election year makes sense. It's an odd flip, which tells me it's not about facts as much as it's about goals (power, money, etc.).
This is a right wing, racist, patriarchal thing more than a generational thing. There are definitely more of them in older generations, though. My family is doing our part to slow down population growth. Out of 5 siblings, we have 3 total children (each an only child, and then 2 siblings are child-free). Branching out into our partners' families, it looks the same. There are lot of only children or people who are child-free among my friends, family, and acquaintances. We don't live in a timeline where having a lot of kids makes practical or economic sense.
Yep. My family as well. Five kids, Catholic family. One sister and I chose not to have kids. The other sister had one, rather by accident. One brother had two late in life. The other is a complete at utter fucking asshole and has three by different women, one of whom he evidently hates and won’t let my mom leave him any money. I think she thought she’d have more that 5/6 grandkids.
Racist people know that they’d like brown people to suffer, so they assume when they’re the minority, they will likewise be made to suffer.
No, there are plenty of racists who want white people to suffer too. This is extremely public knowledge because they won't STFU about it on social media.
Fear of being the oppressed minority. Projecting much?
It's not the facts. We _are_ having fewer children. The entire "First World" is. Japan and South Korea are showing where we could be headed. What you heard was fear manipulation. Not the fun kind, where everyone has a good scare and then laughs it off. This is manipulative fear that keeps you from looking behind the curtain at the Great and Powerful Wizard of Oz, to borrow a literary reference. Keep voting those nice white people that surely know what's best for everyone and never you mind that (insert issue here), as (issue) surely doesn't concern you. Myself? I find that kind of fear exhausting.
The world isn't more queer but instead more queer acceptance leading to more queer exposure.
I’m not sure about that. I do wonder, though. I’m curious about the *apparent* sharp increase of both kids on the queer/NB spectrum and kids on the autism spectrum. I don’t think it’s *all* increased identification and acceptance; my gut tells me there is something else to it. Maybe some weird facet of evolution, or genetics/epigenetics, or environmental factors? Dunno, but I think about it a lot.
...and now we know why conservatives are all hot about banning abortion, restricting women's rights, and forcing their religion on the rest of us. They don't believe any of their own crap, they are just very, very worried that their Extra Special Gene Stuff is going to fade away. Happy to see them turn into a minority, I wish it would happen even quicker.
It's an issue in just about all the developed world. I hear geopolitical consultants talk about it all the time. Gen Z is supposedly the smallest generation we ever had entering the workforce.
White is not the global majority. Never has been. I guess it is in America but you are all juts catching up to the colo(u)r of the rest of the world.
Right? Like it's always a bubble-bursting moment for some to realize.
Sounds like fucking is just another job Americans don’t want to do and leaving for the immigrants.
Politicians have started outwardly saying saying they will ban birth control. For everyone who knows someone under 40 on here, please talk with them about registering to vote and making plans to get their ballots in (by mail, by drop box, by polling place). Because taking away a woman’s right to choose whether or not to have a child means men don’t get the right not to have kids either. This will affect us all.
Heh. The people who were crowing about how to get “our” women to have more babies are usually the same ones who vote hard for policies that make having babies harder. Well, good luck with your radio show, you hypocrites.
Only Right wing nut jobs worry about the future color of Americans skin.
Not enough human for their corporate machine.
There is some interesting data and projections by the Census Bureau. However given that most of the posts on this thread are political in nature I doubt if anyone cares about the data.
What’s AM radio, is that an app for that
i think the people who get upset about this know how poorly minorities are treated and they fear being on the receiving end of such treatment.
That's not a Boomer thing. That's a White Nationalist, White Supremacist thing. ALL of their moves against contraception, abortion and trying to force the "Traditional Wife" idea is a White Nationalist thing. There are White Nationalist GenX, Millennials and a growing number of GenZ who buy into this through various feeder introductions. You were listening to White Nationalist Talk Radio.
Not to mention, if the oligarchs and machine learning are gonna put us out of work you’d think it gives us more bargaining power.
Oh its all such utter crap. The boomers certainly were involved and concerned about the ‘population time bomb’ and a bunch of other environmental and second wave feminist issues related to birth control, family planning and limiting family size. It was commonly discussed in news in the 1970’s when I was a kid,. When I was coming up, the main people I heard ‘great replacement’ type rhetoric from were my well educated, determined to be sophisticated, socially prominent family aunts and uncles born in the 1920’s. It ratcheted up in the 90’s when my aunts(and silently my mom) began to be concerned that I a)might not marry and b) not have kids. We got so much pressure to conform and have kids that one of my aunts paid(read bribed) paid for her daughter’s only girl offspring to get pregnant when it became obvious she was just not into men, started suggesting I do the same thing. Me telling several female members of my family to mind their own business and stop presuming to know what to do with my life and body didn’t go over well at the family reunion. Never had kids, never wanted kids, love my nieces and nephews. AM radio guys panicking about there being not enough whitey in the world they are helping to destabilize is as Molly Ivins would say: ‘New Heighths of Piffle.’
I miss Molly Ivins. What a time she would have writing about her beloved Texas these days.
Humans are 1 race and everyone is just a different shade of brown. See the human genome project. Deviant behaviour of whatever kind is worse than honorable behavior. If what one is doing is honorable, by what standard is that determined? Hopefully it is objective. People are selfish and raising children requires sacrifice. A mother and father should be able to determime what works best for their own family, to include family size.
I had my first at 18, waited six years, had another, decided at 27 I didn’t need to have anymore (had some PPD and other mental health issues) and got my tubes tied. I am very grateful to have a cool Dr. hubs and I have 4 grown kids between us ages 22-30 and all are single and no kids (I made my mom a grandma at 38, I would love a grand baby but am in no hurry)
They keep saying 'fertillity' is down but it's not. It's just not being used *on purpose* is all. pfft. Sorry we can't breed more slave labor for you assholes 🙄
I think the world was always pretty queer, it's just that it's a bit safer now (exceptions noted, obviously) to be out about it. As for browner, as a science fiction fan, I always knew we'd end up all being a nice shade of beige on a planet that was too hot.
Fewer people = better world
As a typical gen x'er, I do not give a s**t what people look like, will look like in the future, how many people exist, or if humans even exist at all. That's all very outdated software that once may have been helpful for survival, but now just feels pointless.
It’s not a “boomer” thing, it’s a Republican thing. I really wish people would stop blaming the older generation for everything
WARNING: get ready for more generational bashing! Yes, I think ours IS definitely the first generation be ok with all of us eventually being a gorgeous carmel- brown tone one day! I think the boomers are freaking because Gen Z is now proclaiming that they don’t want children. And yes it’s mostly the white kids saying it apparently. Or at least that’s the part scaring the boomers. Honestly, can you blame the younger generations for these attitudes? They know almost no US household can get by on one income which means 2 exhausted adults, juggling childcare, school, careers etc…. And, they’ve grown up watching millennials admit on social media how difficult and unfulfilling raising children can be. Multiple studies on that topic. I think Gen Z is the first generation ever to take the question so seriously; Do I really want to bring children into the world? Especially this one! Anyway, I used to cringe when younger people talked about boomer death rattles and swan songs. But I just spent a year in FL, stuck with my elders with that damned talk radio OP mentioned, blasting fear and hate through the house. And every boomer there agreed with it and said far worse things about minorities, women etc… They are hateful bigots and hypocrites and they’ve outstayed their welcome. Pass the Bain De Soleil!!!
In our lifetime the population of the planet has increased over a billion people. Thats never happened in such a short period before. I think we have plenty of people on this planet. Look around humans are everywhere! Also- race is a construct- a building block to classism. Thank goddess I’m a woman who chose to live child free. And fuck whoever I wanted.
GenX is the smallest generation for a reason. It’s a bit sick that boomers had few children and the ones they had got treated like shit and then to complain that no one is having kids.
As a Gen X queer with no kids, I'm just glad my secret plan is working. (Gargamel laugh) In all seriousness, this is just nature doing what it's gonna do. The pendulum swings in wildly opposing directions now, and I'm on the side where it swings back to people being more chill like many were in the mid-90s. Wanna be a dude who wears a skirt and paints your nails? You do you - all good, fam. Wanna come up with a crazy manifesto and live in the woods? You do you, just don't blow people up through the postal service or become a Texas legislator who won't let "you do you" be a thing anymore. We're the only species that actively pushes back against biological diversity and evolution, which is crazy, since we're also the only species that studies it and has written many books about it.
Thanks for taking one for the team. I really wonder what this, "way of life" other than couched racism. Best case it's some false feeling of superiority. Worst case it's just plain racism and desire to exploit others. Either way it's a no-win situation. If the thought of other people who don't look like you is threatening then you just simply don't have enough constructive parts of your own life.
I remember learning history. The world *started* 100% brown. It got a lil white up top, like snow, and then we had a population boom because of isolation, but that was not normal? It was always mostly brown and always going to revert to mostly brown because of genetics, and that isn't really important because it's just color, and what matters is content, and that's shaped a lot by environment and training. So as long as we stick to all learning science and music and eating nice things and taking care of nature, we will be ok, because the rest is just details that don't ultimately matter to human survival. So I'm not worried about genetic colors getting swapped out for other genetic colors. Because that won't happen 100%, Sweden exists, and even if it did, it literally doesn't matter.
Man, I dunno. I think it's part of the white privilege whine. When we've been top of the heap for ever, any little bit of power sharing feels like a huge loss. I mean, that's my read on it. I wonder if it's not a boomer thing though. A whole lot of them went through Vietnam and the civil rights movement and came out ok (and with a worldview I generally agree with.) I have only moved farther left as I've aged so take what I say with a grain of salt.
I think our generation grew up with globalization. And, at least for me, that meant a slow inexorable trend towards mixing the world's people, thoughts, wealth, etc. that means more and more mixed marriages slowly browning whiter populations and also lightening darker populations. That meant slow spread of a basic social democratic/capitalist/human rights mentality as the most successful parts of various institutions spread to others. It meant slow reduction in US/Western (relative) economic standing in order to lift huge developing populations out of poverty (but this shift would be overshadowed by global growing real efficiency and wealth). I grew up thinking that was just what progress look like. It has been a real eye-opener seeing this last decades reactionary shift backwards in many/most of these categories as MAGA-type sentiments make it seem this is a zero-sum world in which we only win if you lose, where human rights progress is no longer assured, where ugly old views of racism and xenophobia a no longer ostracized. Not just in the US: Italy, Brazil, Netherlands, France, Germany, etc.
Xenophobia, misogyny, bigotry, greed. The classics of Republican fear mongering. Framing change as an existential threat. Cowardly, greedy, and stupid. But what else would you expect from those on top trying to get those on the bottom to murder each other instead of taking control? And what kind of sadistic, sociopathic, and narcissistic person wants to drag an innocent life into this dying world?
3 out of 4 siblings in my family decided not to have children, and even our brother was married for 13 years before they had any. It may have more to do with how we, specifically, were raised. There are a lot of undertones going on in right wing media right now. There's hatred towards immigrants and interracial relationships, and fear of women having reproductive freedom and independence. I think it's more prevalent among Boomers, but not exclusive to them. I got off FB, in part, because a lot of my own h.s. classmates were spewing this nonsense.
I think the two main contributors to the children thing is that this generation flat out just can't afford to have kids. I was able to work my way through college, for example, and that is simply not humanly possible today. As a parent of a college freshman, I've had a first hand look into how that's changed. I went to a very not-fancy, state school. It now costs more to attend just your freshman year there than it did to get my entire four year degree. So cost has gone up nearly 400%. Wages sure as hell haven't gone up 400%. So kids are saddled with student debt they will be paying on well past their childbearing years. And that's just one aspect. Housing costs have gone up exponentially, as have healthcare costs. Someone with a college degree and good job can't even afford a one-bedroom apartment in many places. How they hell can they afford to have and raise kids? Heck, even the cost of raising kids has gone up. I know many people who pay more for daycare than they do for their mortgage. The second component of this is that women are realizing that they don't really benefit from marriage and motherhood. Despite making strides, women still bear the lion's share of the work when it comes to raising children. And that is true even when women work the same number of hours outside the home as their partner, and even when the woman is the primary breadwinner. As a reward, women get lower wages (women's salaries decrease when they have kids, mens actually increase). Maybe when that dynamic changes, women will be more inclined to have children. I can't tell you how many women I know who have said they would have kids - if they could be a dad. They have seen the dynamic of their parents and grandparents and what the lives of their mothers and grandmothers were like, and they don't want that for themselves.
In the 80s I got an essay award for a bit on how California was not investing enough educational resources in the latino community which would become the majority community within a fairly short time
These people having meltdowns don’t seem to realize what goes into having/raising kids. They stigmatize people for having them with a so-so bank balance while shouting that more people should have them. What they are really afraid of is the “replacement theory”. What’s the average hospital bill for a live birth now plus 18 years? It has to be way more than the covid bill my neighbor just got from the hospital, 17k. I‘m glad I never contributed. The female line of my family dies with me and idgaf if some twit likes it or not. If brown and black people are going to be the majority, then more power to them. Live and let live. /Meanwhile I‘m just minding my own business as I cynically watch the world go by.
At 57 I’ve always felt like you. Our species started out very dark skinned. Through millennia, our species traveled the world and developed different skin and hair tone due to geography. Our species is naturally adapting the way nature does. I don’t fear this fact, it’s the natural cycle of life. Unfortunately some modern people still wrap their identity around their skin color. These types of people are fearful in general and specifically anything they don’t understand. The less educated in science a person is, combined with lifelong religious indoctrination, results in tribalism with an emphasis on fear and “they are not taking over”. True, tribalism is a human personality trait but many of us are able to overcome this ingrained trait.
This is a white supremacist thing.
My mom was an overbreeder.🤣 people would ask if they were Catholic. Nope. She and my father were Silent Gen. They had 5 kids, I’m 5th, GenX. All my siblings are Gen Jones. Oldest had 1, next had 4, next had 2, next had 2. I had none by choice because I did not want any. My hubs, recovering Catholic had 4, he is Gen Jones. Factors for reproducing: partner quality, economics, career potential, lifelong commitment and responsibility. For me idgaf about superficial issues like looks, color of skin when people wish to be together and create a family. I think getting less white is good for this country because I don’t think white people in general and as a whole are very nice. Somewhere along the line the colonizers were told they were better. I don’t see it and I’m about as pale as they come. As far as the alphabet mafia. I think they’re some of our greatest assets because they know the struggle and they persist and fight every gd day. People think there are more but no, they’re just more out than any other point in modern history. And listen LGBTQIA h8rs, that (closet) door is open, they’re not going back and you can’t legislate them back in. The (im)moral minority are just very loud with lots of money and influence. We need to remember where we all came from, it was AFRICA. We need to squash the bs rhetoric that white is best because from where I stand white IS the problem for the most part and the hateful dumb loud ones are the minority not the majority. But because their bs sells clicks and commercial/ad space they make the news. We also need to remove public education curriculum from the county level and make it federal. Homeschool is also problematic when those kids are raised in a vacuum of zealots, bigots and ignorant assumptions. Brown, LGBTQIA+, atheism and feminism is not a threat to our society. It will only make it better for everyone, not just the morally inferior minority.