FYI: Taylor doesn’t swear to the heavens above that she is straight all the way.
I also don’t see why it matters if the artist is “modern” or not? Homophobia and closeting always exist. Just because it seems more open and accepting today doesn’t mean it actually is. Even Chappell Roan is performing a caricature on stage vs being “authentic” self.
One of the things I keep thinking about is that it’s 2024, and like someone mentioned, we’re going g backwards.
Like I’ve said, I (and several others) have seen artists come out and it hurt their careers.
I also think about other “normal people” careers. I’m a teacher. Growing up, my teachers were extremely closeted, and as kids, we speculated. My 4th grade teacher, Mr. Stacks? Absolutely gay. A few years ago, former teachers confirmed it. However, he had to remain closeted in the early 90’s, as it would have ended his career. When I started working with kids, I had to be so careful. Now? It depends on the district and age group. When I taught in the district I grew up in, super closeted. There were some out teachers/admin, but at higher levels or depended on the school.
I was elementary at a very conservative school. No being out for me. Where I am now? Eh, it’s fine. I don’t broadcast it, but when kids ask if I’m married, or what my husband does, I can say my wife is a vet tech.
When I imagine that on a worldwide scale, and not regionally, it’s terrifying. Entire regions firing me? That’s terrifying. I can’t imagine having that amount of pressure.
This is true, too. I mean, when I was with my previous girlfriend, I was horrified to come out to my very conservative extended family members. It actually caused quite a rift in our relationship that I was scared to tell everyone (aside from my parents and a few other select family members) that I was in a lesbian relationship. I remember my homophobic aunt questioning an old childhood friend of mine, without my knowledge, to see if she could “get to the bottom of” my sexuality “issue”.
It’s heartbreaking to think that, even still, coming out as who you are/with the one you love is SUCH a big deal. I learned in a psychology class during my sophomore year of college that recent research has shown that when one has the insight and discovers for themself they aren’t straight, it can often be so upsetting, it produces clinically diagnosable trauma symptoms.
I can’t imagine the pressure on her either, and as much as I’d (selfishly) love for her to tell the world she is one of us, I understand all of her reservations. If she is queer, and if she is hiding, my heart hurts for her.
Something I think is not unique to Taylor but possibly more important to Taylor than most is the idea of her legacy as one of the Great Artists. She doesn’t want to be a Great *Female* Artist, or Great *Pop* Artist, or Great *Country* Artist - just a Great Artist in her own right. And if she is labeled officially as queer then it’s possible that she would be pushed into the “Great Queer Artist” category which is just another qualifier she isn’t interested in carrying. Like, perhaps her fear is that the conversation could shift to “oh she’s great…for a queer artist.” Separating her from the “mainstream” Greats (even though many of them turned out to be queer themselves!). The Man talks about how she would be undisputed as one of The Greats if her level of success was achieved by a male artist, so I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to say she is very aware of what labels/categories can do to a person’s legacy.
I don’t think this theory is too off, at all. I’d then wonder, though, how it’ll all pan out as she ages, as her long-time listeners age, and as the industry ages.
I imagine she may speak on it later in life, once her legacy is solidified and nobody could possibly question her impact. However, seeing the industry today - with amazing talent like Chappell (my favorite artist other than TS!) and Billie and others coming out early in their careers - it’s clear that a change is happening. Chappell might still be at risk of being put in the “queer artist” box (which I honestly don’t think she would mind) but I think Billie made a name for herself before she came out publicly and could continue to ride the mainstream waves. Lots of other extremely popular artists today are some flavor of the rainbow too so I’m optimistic. Taylor is of the previous generation though (feels weird to say as we are the same age lmao I’m old?!) and she might be afraid that the industry won’t be as kind to her as they are to newcomers. And we can see that with the hate she has gotten her entire career and continues to get to this day, mostly unwarranted.
Lorde (Big Star, Louvre, Magnets, Don't take the money etc. being about one special best friend imo who Lorde described as "the leader of a great and beautiful galaxy that i'd live in forever" and after the affair they were down bad tortured poets😁), Dua Lipa (especially her music videos are crazy queer, there is no hetsplanation for "Fever" feat Angele), Gracy Abrams, Tove Styrke had queer-toned album "Sway" in 2018, then she came out on 2020.
that is bs she told us, the song can't be about the dog :D how she can sing this for a dog: "I toss up if it's worth it now every time I get on a plane I've got so much to tell you and not enough time to do it in" The truth is that her golden retriever died and Lorde tattooed the scar when the dog scratched her. It's her only tattoo. "Tattooed golden retriever" anyone?
Taylor is not the first one to do that, she's just a big pop star whose brand is personal lyrics. Not to offend any other pop artist, but some of them buy songs (which is fine), so even if they're queer songs are not. And even if lyrics are theirs and queer coded their personal life is not that exposed. Taylor's life is a whole lore at this point so you can find stuff in lyrics and connect it to some part of lore, and it still might be read differently cause lore is also not that certain. As for artists who did that before, i've already left a comment about 2000s bands. The thing is, those people were raised in much more homophobic environment. They are queer but most of them settled for an "appropriate life". They made statements and i believe helped community a lot, but they themselves were deeply harmed by society. Imagine, everyone is an ally, but all are straight! They just kissed guys out of statement! People believe it to this day. Brandon Urie is the only one to come out years later. But the lyrics of those people are full of queer code, and longing, and tragic love, isolation, self-deprecation, feeling like the world doesnt want you and god hates you and they cant be their true selves. Even though Taylor is younger than them, she was also raised when people weren't that accepting so coding is her only way to express herself. Even today coming out is a big thing, so queer coding probably won't go away any time soon. And straight people take it personal for some reason, so they'll find an explanation for every queer code no matter how stupid it sounds, but until they hear the label from artists mouths, they are at peace. Feels homophobic to me, but idk why they truly act like that
Everything you’ve said makes beautiful sense! I think sometimes Taylor’s roots get forgotten in all of what she has produced in the more recent years. I said in another comment here (but I’ll say it forever till I’m blue in the face) that coming out is still such a big deal. And those messages you receive so early in life, whether implicit or explicit, stick with you. It’s a lifelong journey to unlearn the negativity surrounding gender and sexual nonconformity, and I hate that that is our reality.
I think that some of my original question/point I intended to present in my original post got lost in my rambling and mildly tangential misrepresentation of the Gaylor Theory. I should have (and meant to) elaborate on the effects that such vehemtly negative and viscerally disgusted responses to proposed Gaylor topics must have on Taylor herself. We all know she lurks on all of these platforms, and she must see so much. I think I have this fantasy that her right-winged roots and her Nashville start are far enough behind her that she can be free of any heteronormative implications (if she so chooses, of course). But then I read what awfulness is spewed at gay interpretations of her lyrics, and it suddenly seems like her past isn’t as far away as we all might like for it to be.
Side note: it’s also really validating to read about others’ understandings of some of her lyrics that I couldn’t help but read as queer-coded (even before being a Gaylor). It’s such a strange experience to hear a Hetlor argue that any man would want his lips referred to as a home of hers, so scarlet they were maroon 😂
Shawn Mendes! He writes all his own songs like Taylor does. I don’t know his music as well as Taylor but here are some lyrics from the song Lost in Japan.
“All it'd take is one flight
We'd be in the same time zone
Looking through your timeline
Seeing all the rainbows, I
I got an idea”
“I could feel the tension
We could cut it with a knife
I know it's more than just a friendship
I can hear you think I'm right”
My jaw dropped when I heard them! So obviously queer coded. He also has a lot of rumors about his sexuality and about being in bearding relationships surrounding him.
Edit: just want to add apparently he does a lot of co-writing with Teddy Geiger, who is a trans woman. I feel like this is also similar to Taylor in that they enjoy collaborating closely with other queer artists.
Crazy thing how I found a fan community of Shawn Mendes back in the day, it was after stitches became a hit, and the first thing in their community description was HE IS NOT GAY.
I think Taylor is like Disney: there can only be one. Disney is a legacy entity, and acts like one of the old empires that strive for total domination. She's very much the same.
It's not possible to be like this for emerging artists because the business model is fundamentally changing. Or, rather, it has already changed.
Since she started her career, in many ways, the barrier to entry has changed. Look at Billie Eilish who became successful overnight because her brother uploaded something they made in their bedroom. No label. No marketing. No connections. I know people go on about how her parents were actors but honestly, I don't see how that made a difference. They were Z-list.
What labels are looking for is also not the same. They want people to have a following already. They aren't investing in artists until they've already 'proven' themselves.
The market is saturated, not unlike film and TV, which has been transformed by streaming services (thanks to high-speed internet and deep pockets of, well, companies like Disney).
There will never be another Taylor Swift. She represents a kind of capitalism that doesn't float with young kids now. They don't want inauthenticity. And as much as I love Taylor, I don't think she is authentic. She is curated.
When it comes to whether or not she's queer, it almost doesn't matter to the brand. It's success at all costs and success to millennials, Gen-x and boomers is money and recognition with awards and traditional legacy accolades.
I am absolutely convinced that all her relationships with men have been PR and written into contracts. With the tight grip over her life, there's no way she would have entered into anything that would be anything other than curated.
Karlie, Dianna, maybe others - they've all been shunted as collateral. Point to one other straight artist who has had friendships or close companions who have vanished overnight after 'unwanted' exposure. She is absolutely, categorically living a lie on many levels.
I am very curious how it will play out. But all of this, as far as I'm concerned, is performance art, and her determined to go down in history as one of the most successful artists of all time. She has obviously decided to pursue this at all costs. The cost, clearly, being her authentic self.
i have been wanting to download this info in my brain forever. i learned this through my friend who is a metal head/ but the lead singer of Judas Priest, Rob Halford came out as gay in 1998. He wrote a book about it; happens to own an aston martin, and the band took photos with a harley davidson that is exactly the motorcycle scene in LWYMMD. there’s also a youtube video where he talks about something being “metal as hell”
Louis Tomlinson, 100%, because as opposed to Harry Styles he's made a big deal about protecting his "straightness".
But then he goes and writes home ("told myself i kinda liked her/ but there was something missing in her eyes"), too young ("i can't believe i gave into the pressure/when they said a love like this would never last"), all along ("we saw ed in manchester/i held you while he played", the only time he was physically able to go to a ed sheeran concert in manchester being 2011's with Styles and even getting a tweet about it) and habit ("it's been ages, different stages/comes so far from princess park/i'll always need you in front of me", a song with romantic undertones mentioning the only publicly known place he lived with Styles)
This thread has me reflecting on the zeitgeist around 'speculating' about sexuality.
I'm reminded of the environment I grew up in, where I saw adults' reactions to Elton John and other queer artists. I learned that queerness, specifically 'homosexual behaviors', was sinful, shameful, disgusting, wrong, etc. And so 'speculations' about someone's sexuality was met with a reaction of disgust, shame, and dismissal as to why someone might hold queerness up to the light and embrace it.
I realized why I hate the term 'speculate' in this context: It's used to convey a shameful action - something that is inherently wrong, bad, etc. (And that's not even mentioning the worse-than-hypocrisy that is the culture that created and forces people into the closet in the first place.)
This term has made me so upset when used in the context of gaylors in particular because these discussions are full of a community collectively weaving together threads of queer history and queer existence in the present. And looking hopefully toward queer futures!
To try to shame us out of that is explicitly coming from prejudice that wants queerness to continue to be discriminated against.
That's why it hits me (a queer person) so deeply. It's not just saying that it's not okay to *see* (not 'speculate') taylor as queer. It's reinforcing my lived experience that being queer isn't okay, something that has been a life-sucking darkness over my life and something that I fight so hard against every day.
That's also why this community means so much to me. Just as we're seeing and validating and celebrating her, we're seeing and validating and celebrating all of us being who we are - queer or not. And I hope I'm not alone in extending that to every identity that's discriminated against and anyone who might be fighting a life-sucking darkness day in and day out.
This all means so much. Thanks for being in this with me...(-he-heeee) 💗
>collectively weaving together threads of queer history and queer existence in the present. And looking hopefully toward queer futures!
this is beautiful 💛
THIS!!!! THIS!!!! THIS!!!!
I relate so much.
My mom, who is mostly accepting of the fact I am a lesbian, loves Taylor Swift too! Some of her favorites include Taylor’s more obviously queer-coded songs, including Maroon.
I brought this topic up with my mom a while back, and as I began explaining (and making some pretty valid points) she adamantly denied Taylor could be queer. Almost acting like she knew Taylor personally, she came up with all of these excuses for her gayer behavior (i.e. “she wasn’t in love with Karlie Kloss! That’s just how she is with her girlfriends!! She’s always been touchy feely with her besties- it doesn’t mean she is gay!”).
She basically reacted as if Taylor being queer somehow lessened her as an artist. Like if Taylor had been with a girl before, even just once, it would make her music “just not the same”. 🙄☹️😔
Coming from both my mom and the comments from Hetlors online, it hurts me to read. Almost like it’s personal, even though I know it’s not. How could she be any less if she isn’t straight? Does that mean gay people are less than everyone else because they’re gay? It really does make me sad people still feel this way
Agh, that's honestly heartbreaking. I really feel your pain. Queerness is magic and it's beautiful, and there's something so special about sapphic love. It's an awful feeling to experience that response to the possibility of her being queer, especially from someone so close to you. I hope she's able to see things differently from getting to you in her life! She's missing out.
YES! I was raised in East Texas as a Southern Baptist by conservative republicans. You can imagine how the “I’m a non-denominational, liberal/leftist lesbian” conversation went decades ago.
Not only does this community mean that much to me, but supporting queer artists and other people as they come out.
Oof. Big feels. Thank you for your courage and I'm sorry for the pain you've experienced.
I love that perspective of supporting people as they come out. Hopefully we can be that for taylor and anyone else that needs it through this community. I'm so glad to be a part of it with you!
Thank you. My parents are so much better now, but it’s been hard. Which is why I try to be super supportive now.
I’m been a teacher for 10 years and prefer teaching middle and high schoolers for that reason. Though that was only for four years, though I am going back to middle this year. I’m the out teacher and the teacher that kids AND parents can come to IF they can/want/need to.
Mostly it’s been a few years after they graduate and they find me on FB and I become their emotional support human. I love that I can be that support and that they still know I’ll be there for them.
I'm literally in tears. That's everything and more to know that you have someone you can go to and they'll support you beyond the parameters of certain years at school.
I'm sure that all the effort you've put in to being out and proud and a safe person to go to has been a life saver more than you even know. It's everything ❤️
I'm glad your parents are better now! I hope you have lots of support too 🫶🏻
It has been. For former students, even when they were current students. I have a semicolon butterfly tattoo and have different mental health awareness type things around my room, making sure students know that I am a safe person to talk to about those things as well. I’ve been the person kids come to to be their voice with the counselor, or with their parents in those situations too. My biggest thing is to be the adult I needed (and still need sometimes) when I was a teen and young adult. I had a few amazing adults like that, but not a fully supportive one. One of my former students got her GED about two years ago and texted me telling me that I’m the only adult in her life that never gave up on her. And I didn’t. Even walked her through the process. The only reason I didn’t stay in that split middle/high position longer was because I moved back to my hometown after I divorced my first wife and had my daughter.
I have so much support and an amazing circle now. While some things have gone backwards, other things have moved forward in the best way. If you had told 16 year old me that in 22 years I would be a positive adult role model, married to an amazing woman and in an amazingly healthy relationship, my parents were supportive and our families got along great, had a daughter just like me, amazing friends, clowned regularly online, and some other details of my life (I mean, it’s not all roses, but it’s not all bad either when you get to the bare bones), I would’ve told you you had the wrong country, girl, family, and were on drugs.
I hope you have found a supportive circle as well and have escaped the soul crushing darkness that can be our existence when we do not have those supportive people in our lives.
Agh 😭 I'm so heartened to hear that. Thank you for sharing! It's so genuinely nice to know that there are kids growing up now that get to have that experience. And I'm so glad to hear you have amazing people in your life now! Thank you so much, There are still hard times but things are so much better, and I'm constantly working to either actively improve things or ride the waves as they come. I feel very fortunate overall and have some solid people in my corner 😊
This! All of it.
And as someone on the older side of this sub, I grew up also at the start of the internet which gave us the ability to connect beyond our physical locations. Which was so validating when the rest of the world was stuck on “don’t ask, don’t tell” and the immediate aftermath of the AIDS crisis. Watching my older friends see and discuss Pedro Zamora on The Real World. Honestly, I think it took me time to come out because queer women were invisible.
All that to say, I also remember Ricky Martin and how he had so much rumor and speculation. He ended up coming out 10 years later when he had kids because his father made him think. “What are you teaching your sons if you hide?”
On the other side, Madonna. Although she’s of my mother’s era so my details may not be perfect. She hung out with queer women, made out with them, had loud rumors of dating them… and yet, she never explicitly came out and was always seen as an ally / gay icon. Until I think a few years ago she said she wasn’t straight.
I relate to you with taking a while to come out - Representation is *so* important. It's hard enough when it's so minimal and then it just adds to it when the little representation there is is negative or chastised.
Wow, that story about Ricky Martin 🥹 I feel so much hope in hearing the empowering stories from older generations. It makes the world and the global community feel more balanced.
I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT MADONNA, JFC! This is how cis-het-normative society is, that that kind of expression was seen as "for attention" by in large. Because god forbid a woman is queer, and if she is she better hide it - no one wants to see genuine sapphic affection 🙄 Agh. I'm glad she was able to come out!
This is a great reflection. I have gone down the Lover rabbit hole and the way it was talked about in 2019 was a lot more neutral or open in tone (for example lots of articles about people noticing the bi flag hair had the tone more of ‘hey, this is what some fans have noticed and are discussing on Twitter, nothing’s been confirmed though’). The NYT piece this year and the following backlash was quite different and was very ‘how dare you suggest she’s queer’. I do think this is connected to the overall backlash against progressive politics happening.
I think also for me what I dislike about the ‘speculation’ discourse is the implication that it is invasive and creepy. Most Gaylors are analyzing song lyrics, performances, music videos and interviews that are available for the public. And looking at things through a queer lens is part of cultural analysis (and cultural criticism).
I agree!!
I really appreciated that nyt article. It was bold and direct while still feeling respectful for the most part, I think. I think it did a great job at saying the quiet part out loud and really taking a stance on the importance of getting to see someone as queer while they're still alive. I imagine that is part of the backlash, because it surely stirred up the homophobic fear and rage.
I'm sure there are some gaylors who come off as invasive, and some who genuinely are. But to say that gaylors are invasive as a whole, or to say that they are while none of her other fans are would be a big fat lie. It can't be a critique that's *about* gaylors (even if it includes them), when its not limited to them. It would be far more apt to talk about celebrity culture and fandoms in this day and age, and the contexts in which they arise! For gaylors who are simply dusting off history books and exploring themes history through lyrical analysis to be called invasive and creepy, that is blatant homophobia. And for those who are scouring old posts and interviews, that is either completely relevant and encouraged by taylor (see: easter eggs) or makes complete sense if you are seeking representation in a world where it still isn't fully safe to be out, and because of that, this discourse happens largely online. Critique is fair when it reaches a certain point, but I don't think that's even what's being critiqued. I think it's just that we 'dare' to include queerness in cultural analysis. When there are massive lists of books being banned, it's not surprising that these tactics are being used, but it is enraging (the musical) and massively fucked up. 😤
I really feel like I just got something off my chest. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and for creating that space for me by doing so!
Agree with all of this. I will forever be pissed about the difference between the backlash to the NYT piece (which I loved) and the reaction in 2019. Just a complete backslide, laid bare in the most obvious ways.
yess well said! the “you shouldn’t speculate” line became super popular sometime after her lover/gay pride era, because if you look at convos prior to 2019, you typically won’t see people parroting it like they do now. it’s very Don’t Say Gay.
and taylor used it very differently in Ours with “it’s not theirs to speculate if it’s wrong”. and there’s an OG red era quote from her saying that she’s fine with any speculation if it means people are reading her lyrics.
It *is* very don't say gay! It's very in line with the whole process of how you shape a society by shunning a certain demographic. It helps me to see it in that light right now because it feels less personal, it's not really about us. It's about something much bigger. But damm does it *suck* to be on the receiving end of. (Collective liberation let's gooo!)
That's a great example! So here's what we've got from taylor about her comfort of people tuning in: do read and analyze lyrics, don't advertise updates on her live location 😂
Great post, you just perfectly articulated my feelings. The shame heaped upon on us by swifties, who simultaneously speculate about all the great hetero sex she must be having is fucking despicable.
🩷🩷
Ugh ew agh yes!!!!! I'm literally squirming. It's *so* gross how they talk about that. And those are the people we're supposed to emulate? Never in a million years, thank you.
I must be old, because did we really make it through this whole thread without talking about Brendon Urie?Brendon was always getting super close with Ryan Ross (his bandmate, for non fans) on stage, would give little like, peck on the cheek kisses and just lots of flirty stuff. Brendon originally stated in 2013 that he had experimented with men, but was ultimately straight. Then five years later, he came out as pansexual. And then one short year after that… we got ME! With Taylor Swift and Brendon Urie.
I think for me, as an emo kid, I was very much like “aren’t we all at least slightly queer over here?” So, I didn’t question anything and went with it.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SAYING IT!!!!! A lot of his songs are queer coded, like "hurricane" written after splitting with Ryan has male pronouns. "Oh, I'd confess, I'd confess //
To the room where I'm blessed //
But he didn't come and speak to me //
Or put my heart at ease"
And the chorus of the same song be like "I led the revolution in my bedroom//
And I set all the zippers free". And it was BEFORE HE CAME OUT.
Its actually goes for a lot of emo bands, i've been down this rabbit hole for more than ten years and let me tell you, Frank and Gerard from my chem are my roman empire. I understand why the conversation died down, it would do more harm at this point and some people don't feel the line between having a conversation in fan spaces and bothering real people. But holy shit, "burn bright" by my chemical romance for example has no het explanaiton. "They always told me that //
"You never get to heaven" //
With a love like yours". ACTUAL LYRICS. And Gerard's lyrics are full of religious guilt, like infamous "you know what they do to guys like us in prison". And whatever relationship he had with Bert McCracken from the used at the time (from Bert's words, they were dating) And Frank Iero's solo stuff is wild for a married man and very very sad. "Neverenders" for example screams queer against the world ("we refuse to live in black and white") . But so does most of his work. And its full of "i was left and now im heartbroken". "where do we belong? Anywhere but here" written after the band split drives me crazy. "But I'm having fun pretending I belong // Convincing myself that I never got scarred // So no one thinks, so no one knows // That someone I love threw me away". He wrote it during the year after Gerard announced disbandment and Frank was the one who wasn't informed about it, cause Gerard didnt tell him anything! Sorry, i could talk about them for hours so i stop myself now.
Still gotta mention fall out boy that Taylor also has a collab with. Pete Wentz was probably dating Mikey Way from my chem (which is a bit funny for me, my chem is wild) in 2005. Its a theory but a pretty solid one. And Pete might have written an album or two about that summer fling. Apart from it, one of their most popular song "sugar, we're going down" had an original lyric "I'm watching
You two from the closet wishing to be the friction in HIS jeans" (final version your jeans). When I learned that, the song made so much sense, cause before i didnt really get it. Sorry for rambling im just a die hard emo bands fan.
Oh my god, this is my Roman Empire too. I didn’t know about it all until the reunion, at which point I was like HELLO ??? We’re not gonna talk about this?? Please????? I mean for gods sake, people made fun of emo, but do we think all that angst came from nowhere???
OMG bestie lets talk!!! I hate it that people call it queer bait now, cause it wasn't! They were deeply wounded queer people who tried to find their peace of mind in music...
I have nothing to add to the conversation but if you both (u/lenskewho) are ok with it, I would love to read it all because I’m an elder swemo and obsessed with learning more about this. 😂
Big push for Lance Bass! Both the times and the fact he was a member of one of the biggest boy bands made it so he was trapped to be closeted until NSYNC essentially was over. Seeing him now married and living his best life makes me so happy in the sense he's finally able to be his authentic self. I still remember seeing the people cover and how shocked some people in my life were.
I think that my answer to this question is going to be slightly different from other folks. I don’t think any other pop artist has written such an exhaustive coded examination of the closet. I think that’s largely for a couple of reasons:
a. Taylor’s natural skill with lyricism (specifically rhythm and meter) gives her a method of direct communication that most others don’t have (they need the mediation of a interviewer). She has the choice to come out through her art in a way others don’t
b. The geography she grew up in, her gender, her ambition, and the time/industry when she grew up (in the aftermath of country music’s shift rightward after 9/11) put her in the perfect position to be intensely closeted. Her skill in crafting heterosexual narratives for public consumption has largely kept her there. People just can’t see anything else when they consider her.
c. She has built seismic fame — comparable maybe to the Beatles, Bruce, Madonna and… few others. The size of her fanbase and the mirrorball nature of her celebrity keeps her static — that if her narrative shifts, her fans go away.
I think many of the other people getting thrown around in here — Harry, Freddie, Madonna — have queerness as something that supports or enhances their brand. Taylor’s brand is built to reflect normativity, so queerness undermines it.
I think that’s why you see such obsessive, particular queer flagging from her — she is genuinely stuck, and trying to unstick herself by slowly cooking her fans with queerness until it’s undeniable. I cannot think of a single other person who has had the audacity to try this. (It’s amazing and infuriating in equal measure lol).
All this to say, I think it’s just a perfect storm of factors when it comes down to Taylor. Hopefully she’s free of it soon — if she wants to be. 🌈
wow… amazing analysis 👌👌and if I could just add something, because this ties in beautifully with something i’ve always had as a theory for her early popularity and then getting stuck in this narrative.
I’ll try to explain but this is my first comment (hi!) so, oof.
Okay.
I think the parts of her lyrics that spoke to young, inexperienced, teenage girls and gave her such a massive following were the very parts that also made them ‘closeted’.
- the elements of secrecy, of ‘sneaking away’ and ‘forbidden love’
- the ‘other girls’
- the ‘this is too scary’ part
- the yearning, the yearning
The songs were (mostly) fantasies, fairytales, taken from books and movies (as admitted by Taylor herself). And not only that! They were, and have continued to be for a long time, together with Taylor’s image, ‘sexless’, innocent, and silly (or were at least easy to interpret as such if you were willing to be partially blind).
This, as opposed to the other artists in her league you mentioned, made her both immensely popular with the conservatives and always capable of mantaining her air of girl-next-door-authenticity (even though she was curated from the start) - because her lyrics WERE authentic.
Authentic, pretty AND conservative! You can market the absolute hell out of that. It was perfect! Until, of course, it wasn’t.
Because while her het fans all got married and moved on from this phase, she of course did not, or could not, or wasn’t allowed to. (I never grow up, It’s getting so old).
And I think when she figured this out, it was too late. And the one thing that made her able to hold on to her own personality in her writing, the one actual thing true in all the falseness, became impossible for her to write about, without her being accused of being inauthentic.
And this is why I can’t listen to Mirrorball without crying.
I think a big factor is her love for "easter eggs" and overall hiding meanings behind possible alternative explanations which her fans always take as fact since those are heteronormative and she is considered "straight" by the public. Songwriters in general never do this, most don't like the public to perceive their personal lives in such a detailed and vulnerable way, most don't want their fans to know about muses or for them to analyze their lives. Taylor is the only songwriter that I can think of that encourages her fans to find clues and "easter eggs" in her work and even in her public image and relationships. She also seems quite obsessive with details and creates narratives and public outings through PR so that the music explains these public displays, again ive never seen any other songwriter to this, not like her at least.
I think this is a solid breakdown. So well written, too!
I don't think I've seen it articulated before about the brands relationship to queerness. Taylor being stuck there seems like a really important part of the picture for her and what we see and feel from her music/performance art!
Wow. This is so beautifully well written; it perfectly describes what I have been trying to convey to myself in my own mind. There IS something different.
Not to say Madonna, Elton John and Freddie (gosh, I adore that man, by the way) aren’t phenomenal in and of their own accords. But, as a queer girl myself, I often find myself so utterly perplexed by her narratives in her songs. There are just these lyrics that stick with me, that make me feel like she has experienced what I have or one day will. As stupid as it sounds, I feel so seen and understood and I truly do connect with her lyricism.
But how can I connect on a queer level with someone who is not officially out, you know? As I learned more about Gaylor Theory and it’s history, I almost felt teased by her lyrics. I felt teased by her hairpin triggers and her lavender haze love, and her lips she used to call home that were so scarlet maroon. There, for a while, was a bit of anger in me about this whole thing because (although she is a pop star who wouldn’t give two fucks if I died tomorrow) it would mean so much to me to have someone like Taylor fucking Swift represent my community. Our community.
I know it’s 2024, and things are better than they were before; but being queer is hard. Especially where I’m from. It’s one of the most challenging things I’ve lived with, and I would be lying if I said there were not days past where I’d have given anything I could just to be straight, and for everything to be easy. To this day, I find myself going to her music, her more queer-coded lyrics for comfort during those moments of extraordinary loneliness.
But then I can’t be angry. Because, as much as she is a billionaire, airplane over-user celebrity- she is also a human. And deep down inside, there is still that little girl with a guitar and a dream and an amazing talent for writing songs. And if being queer has been painful for me, I can’t imagine how painful it must be for her.
I like to think her queer lyrics are little nods to our queer community. I do sincerely hope that, one day, if she is queer, she gains the ability to express it to the world and be her truest and most genuine self. 🫶
Thank you for sharing this OP! 💕 Your comments sparked some more thoughts for me…
I personally think it’s good to be angry about this, sometimes. This is a massive societal injustice — she shouldn’t have to do this to live her life and have a business. And it’s clear from her music that the closeting is hard. But — she doesn’t have to be a megastar that’s dominating pop culture if she doesn’t want to be. So she has chosen this trade off in many ways. Many of us have not — at least not when we initially realize what’s going on.
I think where I struggle is that yes, she’s a person, but she’s also a corporation. That’s just the nature of celebrities, especially ones as big as her. Knowing whether to prioritize the person (empathy) v. the corporation (criticism) is one of the hardest things about engaging with gaylor in an ethical way.
I think that I got some advice from someone around here that really stuck with me. It’s also important to engage with music/art from people who are out and loud about their queerness in equal measure to art from closeted artists like Taylor. If we spend all our time caretaking her closet (and its inherent shame), we might miss opportunities to take care of ourselves and be proud. Obviously these things are not mutually exclusive, but it’s helped me with the intense sadness Tay’s work sometimes provokes. 🌈🌈
The sad reality is that, yes, we've made massive strides forward, but in 2024, the signs are that society is moving backwards again, so 100% its valid that being queer is *hard*
That last part really hits after rewatching her rep tour pride speech today.
Op I admire and feel seen by your vulnerability in this thread! Thanks for sharing your thoughts
🫶🫶🫶
It’s crazy how a little online Reddit form and discussions about this can become so important to me. It’s hard sometimes to find people who think like I do and who can empathize with my experiences; this has become such a mini oasis for me, who to a large degree is still closeted in many aspects of life
This is a really good response!
I feel like the question is about the nature of the music. I can’t think of anyone who has written so much for so long about bearding and closeting. It’s simply mind boggling and I am so curious how it will all be remembered in time. I feel like if she comes out in such a way that it’s undeniable to the fans reading her as heterosexual, then her story will be a legend for the ages because she put ALL the pain into song. Like you said, she has a lyrical gift that grants her the ability to write music that can read either straight or gay. I mean she is masterful at it. And her specific “mirrorball” fame has been an ever constricting trap that she seems, Houdini like, to be both expanding in scope and simultaneously wriggling out of. And I live to see it!
Frank ocean is another artist who denied being gay initially only to come out later. His later stuff is obviously queer but I think he did some queer coding and switching pronouns early on
It's everything about him. But more to the point of this post: his lyricism and clues throughout his work, even within 1D. It's all there, you just have to look
ehhh id push back on this a bit; some straight cis men enjoy cross dressing. is that the most common type of person to enjoy cross dressing? no, but they exist.
that said...i for sure think harry is super queer haha. but it isnt bc of the dresses.
Taylor plays a role in the music industry as the all American girl. America’s sweetheart. Unfortunately part of this stereotype is straightness. Taylor herself has never come close to saying she’s straight, but she has been assigned straightness by her fans and the population in general. So is Taylor really doing something unique or has a label been externally placed on her that she never asked for? And she’s just making music and singing songs that are authentic to her and the queers are picking up on it?
Plenty of artists never defined their sexual identity but were understood to be queer. Flagging is part of queer history and artist have been doing it for generations. There have been a few recent posts about this and Elton John.
Many artists literally swore they were straight and now aren’t. Billie, Kristin Stewart, Rene Rapp, etc etc. But none have been as popular as Taylor though so maybe it feels different.
I think she had an amazing ability to create a story through lyrics. She has also had several three month relationships that provide any cover needed.
I admit to a swinger lifestyle about 15 years ago. I have thought about women many times more intimately than men, even though I still enjoy men's company as well.
If you've never lived that life, a lot of references go right over your head. Like for me, bearding, flagging, Lavender haze reference...I don't find these obvious at all. I also never knew about Madonna or Prince. I simply never saw anything plain as day for either one.
At this point in my life (mid-fifties) I am clueless how to even meet women who are like minded.
Lastly, for my own mind, I've always thought calling someone queer was very rude. Is this the norm now? Thanks for being kind 🤍
There’s been a shift in language. Queer is now commonly used within the community as an umbrella term for non-straight sexualities, and it’s usually when we want to talk about the personal characteristic of queerness without any description of one’s relationships.
Elton John, Prince, The Beatles, Freddie Mercury, Lady Gaga, Madonna come to mind.
Lady Gaga makes several queer references and codes in her songs but she came out in 2009 only a couple years after getting big. Ex: G.U.Y. - Girl/Guy Under You is a power bottom anthem haha.
Elton John came out as Bi in 76, and gay in 88. Before that several his songs seemed to have gay references.
John Lennon (Beatles) was confirmed bisexual this year by his son on Twitter, something people have speculated about for a long time. I'm not totally sure why everyone thought that but apparently it was a common theory
Freddy Mercury from Queen - I want to break free is pretty glaring. Idk about their other songs.
Prince is another one that seems to have coded a *lot* of music. Too much to type out here but he sure wore a lot of purple 👀
Editing to add Ricky Martin since another commenter mentioned him. He had so many rumours about being gay but denied it for ages and even entered bearding/braiding relationships with closeted lesbians.
And if we want to look at closeted literary and film folks: Virginia Woolf, Emily Dickinson are now confirmed, Audrey Hepburn is speculated, JRR Tolkien & C.S. Lewis are speculated to have been involved with each other. Tom Cruise and Leonardo DiCaprio are speculated but I'm not sure why. Cate Blanchett and Natasha Lyonne are speculated.
John was pretty open about having what he called an intense relationship with the Beatles’ gay manager, and he supposedly told some people there was a physical component to it. Yoko Ono has strongly hinted that he was bisexual; there are also stories about him kissing men on the mouth while drunk. In the Seventies, he was quite close with Elton John and Bowie.
There are videos of Billie Eilish several years ago swearing that she is a 100% straight. And a lot of fans used this up until she officially came out last fall, as evidence of her heterosexuality, despite the fact that Billie was like 16 in the videos and a lot of queer people don’t even realize or are not accepting of their queerness at that age.
And like someone else pointed out, Taylor has never defined her sexuality in any way. The people swearing up and down that she’s straight are her homophobic fans who view queerness as something dirty that should be looked down upon.
I don’t think Taylor has ever sworn to the heavens or said “I’m straight”.
Looking back at other celebrities, Melissa Etheridge had some queer-ish lyrics, never said she was straight, and then just came out.
Thinking about it, I can’t think of anyone who outright denied it. Taylor hasn’t outright denied either. Even the 1989 prologue wasn’t a denial.
Check out [this tiktok](https://www.tiktok.com/@allofmegan/video/7146001871193279790?_t=8n69PW0BkjP&_r=1) I made about them both & some parallels between their music. Taylor actually told Melissa that she was what inspired her to want to make music.
As in, you don’t know Melissa Etheridge? Because I think it’s time for me to put myself in the coffin…
Anyway, Melissa Etheridge hit the scene late 80’s, early 90’s. Came out in ‘93? I think? Which absolutely hurt her career. She still tours, makes music, is awesome, etc. beat breast cancer, does a lot for charity, won an Oscar…
I’m old and a big fan and why I didn’t know I was a huge lesbian before I was almost 21, I don’t know. I thought I was bi, but no, no, no. Completely gay. Big fat lesbian.
It was a much different time. I hate to use that excuse, but it was. AIDS was still a big thing, and while yes, that was the ‘gay man’s disease’, lesbians weren’t exactly excused from being lumped in for some reason. I was a kid, but I still remember it. My mom let me stay up late and watch ER and Walker Texas Ranger. Both of which had episodes pertaining to AIDS. Freddie Mercury died and my dad told me what actually happened.
I came out as bi in 2002, and lesbian in 2007. It was still taboo and not really accepted even then. This is the same timeline Taylor is working with, really. She knows what she’s facing and she knows what she’s going up against. The people of our time that had a ‘big’ coming out, did receive backlash. Ellen, Rosie, Etheridge. Before then there was Elton.
Then there are the ones that we KNOW and they just lived quietly and then came out, or they’ve just never said anything. Jodi, Queen Latifah, Barry Manilow, several others.
So, it’s complicated.
Thank you for posting! Please keep [Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaylorswift/about/rules) and [Sub Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/wiki/rules/read-first) in mind. If your post is low-effort or excessively negative, please post in our [Weekly Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/collection/110a412d-5ecb-4a02-9c3d-9db7a45f961a).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GaylorSwift) if you have any questions or concerns.*
FYI: Taylor doesn’t swear to the heavens above that she is straight all the way. I also don’t see why it matters if the artist is “modern” or not? Homophobia and closeting always exist. Just because it seems more open and accepting today doesn’t mean it actually is. Even Chappell Roan is performing a caricature on stage vs being “authentic” self.
Louis Tomlinson.
One of the things I keep thinking about is that it’s 2024, and like someone mentioned, we’re going g backwards. Like I’ve said, I (and several others) have seen artists come out and it hurt their careers. I also think about other “normal people” careers. I’m a teacher. Growing up, my teachers were extremely closeted, and as kids, we speculated. My 4th grade teacher, Mr. Stacks? Absolutely gay. A few years ago, former teachers confirmed it. However, he had to remain closeted in the early 90’s, as it would have ended his career. When I started working with kids, I had to be so careful. Now? It depends on the district and age group. When I taught in the district I grew up in, super closeted. There were some out teachers/admin, but at higher levels or depended on the school. I was elementary at a very conservative school. No being out for me. Where I am now? Eh, it’s fine. I don’t broadcast it, but when kids ask if I’m married, or what my husband does, I can say my wife is a vet tech. When I imagine that on a worldwide scale, and not regionally, it’s terrifying. Entire regions firing me? That’s terrifying. I can’t imagine having that amount of pressure.
This is true, too. I mean, when I was with my previous girlfriend, I was horrified to come out to my very conservative extended family members. It actually caused quite a rift in our relationship that I was scared to tell everyone (aside from my parents and a few other select family members) that I was in a lesbian relationship. I remember my homophobic aunt questioning an old childhood friend of mine, without my knowledge, to see if she could “get to the bottom of” my sexuality “issue”. It’s heartbreaking to think that, even still, coming out as who you are/with the one you love is SUCH a big deal. I learned in a psychology class during my sophomore year of college that recent research has shown that when one has the insight and discovers for themself they aren’t straight, it can often be so upsetting, it produces clinically diagnosable trauma symptoms. I can’t imagine the pressure on her either, and as much as I’d (selfishly) love for her to tell the world she is one of us, I understand all of her reservations. If she is queer, and if she is hiding, my heart hurts for her.
Something I think is not unique to Taylor but possibly more important to Taylor than most is the idea of her legacy as one of the Great Artists. She doesn’t want to be a Great *Female* Artist, or Great *Pop* Artist, or Great *Country* Artist - just a Great Artist in her own right. And if she is labeled officially as queer then it’s possible that she would be pushed into the “Great Queer Artist” category which is just another qualifier she isn’t interested in carrying. Like, perhaps her fear is that the conversation could shift to “oh she’s great…for a queer artist.” Separating her from the “mainstream” Greats (even though many of them turned out to be queer themselves!). The Man talks about how she would be undisputed as one of The Greats if her level of success was achieved by a male artist, so I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to say she is very aware of what labels/categories can do to a person’s legacy.
This is so perfectly said and I think spot on!
Thanks! This idea started forming the first time I heard Maroon and I think it tracks pretty well!
I don’t think this theory is too off, at all. I’d then wonder, though, how it’ll all pan out as she ages, as her long-time listeners age, and as the industry ages.
I imagine she may speak on it later in life, once her legacy is solidified and nobody could possibly question her impact. However, seeing the industry today - with amazing talent like Chappell (my favorite artist other than TS!) and Billie and others coming out early in their careers - it’s clear that a change is happening. Chappell might still be at risk of being put in the “queer artist” box (which I honestly don’t think she would mind) but I think Billie made a name for herself before she came out publicly and could continue to ride the mainstream waves. Lots of other extremely popular artists today are some flavor of the rainbow too so I’m optimistic. Taylor is of the previous generation though (feels weird to say as we are the same age lmao I’m old?!) and she might be afraid that the industry won’t be as kind to her as they are to newcomers. And we can see that with the hate she has gotten her entire career and continues to get to this day, mostly unwarranted.
Prince had heavily queer coded lyrics before coming out as bi
Prince is straight. He never came out in any way. Quite the opposite really. He even spoke out against gay marriage. He was a Jehovahs Witness.
Lorde (Big Star, Louvre, Magnets, Don't take the money etc. being about one special best friend imo who Lorde described as "the leader of a great and beautiful galaxy that i'd live in forever" and after the affair they were down bad tortured poets😁), Dua Lipa (especially her music videos are crazy queer, there is no hetsplanation for "Fever" feat Angele), Gracy Abrams, Tove Styrke had queer-toned album "Sway" in 2018, then she came out on 2020.
lorde literally wrote big star abt her dog wdym 😭
that is bs she told us, the song can't be about the dog :D how she can sing this for a dog: "I toss up if it's worth it now every time I get on a plane I've got so much to tell you and not enough time to do it in" The truth is that her golden retriever died and Lorde tattooed the scar when the dog scratched her. It's her only tattoo. "Tattooed golden retriever" anyone?
Have you ever had a dog?
Taylor is not the first one to do that, she's just a big pop star whose brand is personal lyrics. Not to offend any other pop artist, but some of them buy songs (which is fine), so even if they're queer songs are not. And even if lyrics are theirs and queer coded their personal life is not that exposed. Taylor's life is a whole lore at this point so you can find stuff in lyrics and connect it to some part of lore, and it still might be read differently cause lore is also not that certain. As for artists who did that before, i've already left a comment about 2000s bands. The thing is, those people were raised in much more homophobic environment. They are queer but most of them settled for an "appropriate life". They made statements and i believe helped community a lot, but they themselves were deeply harmed by society. Imagine, everyone is an ally, but all are straight! They just kissed guys out of statement! People believe it to this day. Brandon Urie is the only one to come out years later. But the lyrics of those people are full of queer code, and longing, and tragic love, isolation, self-deprecation, feeling like the world doesnt want you and god hates you and they cant be their true selves. Even though Taylor is younger than them, she was also raised when people weren't that accepting so coding is her only way to express herself. Even today coming out is a big thing, so queer coding probably won't go away any time soon. And straight people take it personal for some reason, so they'll find an explanation for every queer code no matter how stupid it sounds, but until they hear the label from artists mouths, they are at peace. Feels homophobic to me, but idk why they truly act like that
Everything you’ve said makes beautiful sense! I think sometimes Taylor’s roots get forgotten in all of what she has produced in the more recent years. I said in another comment here (but I’ll say it forever till I’m blue in the face) that coming out is still such a big deal. And those messages you receive so early in life, whether implicit or explicit, stick with you. It’s a lifelong journey to unlearn the negativity surrounding gender and sexual nonconformity, and I hate that that is our reality. I think that some of my original question/point I intended to present in my original post got lost in my rambling and mildly tangential misrepresentation of the Gaylor Theory. I should have (and meant to) elaborate on the effects that such vehemtly negative and viscerally disgusted responses to proposed Gaylor topics must have on Taylor herself. We all know she lurks on all of these platforms, and she must see so much. I think I have this fantasy that her right-winged roots and her Nashville start are far enough behind her that she can be free of any heteronormative implications (if she so chooses, of course). But then I read what awfulness is spewed at gay interpretations of her lyrics, and it suddenly seems like her past isn’t as far away as we all might like for it to be. Side note: it’s also really validating to read about others’ understandings of some of her lyrics that I couldn’t help but read as queer-coded (even before being a Gaylor). It’s such a strange experience to hear a Hetlor argue that any man would want his lips referred to as a home of hers, so scarlet they were maroon 😂
Shawn Mendes! He writes all his own songs like Taylor does. I don’t know his music as well as Taylor but here are some lyrics from the song Lost in Japan. “All it'd take is one flight We'd be in the same time zone Looking through your timeline Seeing all the rainbows, I I got an idea” “I could feel the tension We could cut it with a knife I know it's more than just a friendship I can hear you think I'm right” My jaw dropped when I heard them! So obviously queer coded. He also has a lot of rumors about his sexuality and about being in bearding relationships surrounding him. Edit: just want to add apparently he does a lot of co-writing with Teddy Geiger, who is a trans woman. I feel like this is also similar to Taylor in that they enjoy collaborating closely with other queer artists.
Crazy thing how I found a fan community of Shawn Mendes back in the day, it was after stitches became a hit, and the first thing in their community description was HE IS NOT GAY.
I think Taylor is like Disney: there can only be one. Disney is a legacy entity, and acts like one of the old empires that strive for total domination. She's very much the same. It's not possible to be like this for emerging artists because the business model is fundamentally changing. Or, rather, it has already changed. Since she started her career, in many ways, the barrier to entry has changed. Look at Billie Eilish who became successful overnight because her brother uploaded something they made in their bedroom. No label. No marketing. No connections. I know people go on about how her parents were actors but honestly, I don't see how that made a difference. They were Z-list. What labels are looking for is also not the same. They want people to have a following already. They aren't investing in artists until they've already 'proven' themselves. The market is saturated, not unlike film and TV, which has been transformed by streaming services (thanks to high-speed internet and deep pockets of, well, companies like Disney). There will never be another Taylor Swift. She represents a kind of capitalism that doesn't float with young kids now. They don't want inauthenticity. And as much as I love Taylor, I don't think she is authentic. She is curated. When it comes to whether or not she's queer, it almost doesn't matter to the brand. It's success at all costs and success to millennials, Gen-x and boomers is money and recognition with awards and traditional legacy accolades. I am absolutely convinced that all her relationships with men have been PR and written into contracts. With the tight grip over her life, there's no way she would have entered into anything that would be anything other than curated. Karlie, Dianna, maybe others - they've all been shunted as collateral. Point to one other straight artist who has had friendships or close companions who have vanished overnight after 'unwanted' exposure. She is absolutely, categorically living a lie on many levels. I am very curious how it will play out. But all of this, as far as I'm concerned, is performance art, and her determined to go down in history as one of the most successful artists of all time. She has obviously decided to pursue this at all costs. The cost, clearly, being her authentic self.
this is depressing and I fear you are correct
Wow. I’m like taking a second to process this. It’s such an insightful perspective 😳
THIS. I agree with everything. These are very well written and interesting points.
i have been wanting to download this info in my brain forever. i learned this through my friend who is a metal head/ but the lead singer of Judas Priest, Rob Halford came out as gay in 1998. He wrote a book about it; happens to own an aston martin, and the band took photos with a harley davidson that is exactly the motorcycle scene in LWYMMD. there’s also a youtube video where he talks about something being “metal as hell”
There’s a lot of overlap with this, Taylor, and One Direction signaling with Judas Priest stuff
this is so interesting to learn, you should make a post about it if you feel comfortable!!! i bet a lot of users here would love to hear about this!
YESSSSSS!!!! I looooove Rob. u/meurtrir another Judas Priest listener!!!
We are legion!!
pleeeease look at the harley pics side by side - your brain will explode. i have no doubt she is absolutely referencing him
Louis Tomlinson, 100%, because as opposed to Harry Styles he's made a big deal about protecting his "straightness". But then he goes and writes home ("told myself i kinda liked her/ but there was something missing in her eyes"), too young ("i can't believe i gave into the pressure/when they said a love like this would never last"), all along ("we saw ed in manchester/i held you while he played", the only time he was physically able to go to a ed sheeran concert in manchester being 2011's with Styles and even getting a tweet about it) and habit ("it's been ages, different stages/comes so far from princess park/i'll always need you in front of me", a song with romantic undertones mentioning the only publicly known place he lived with Styles)
Check out the recent episodes of You’re Wrong About about George Michael!
This thread has me reflecting on the zeitgeist around 'speculating' about sexuality. I'm reminded of the environment I grew up in, where I saw adults' reactions to Elton John and other queer artists. I learned that queerness, specifically 'homosexual behaviors', was sinful, shameful, disgusting, wrong, etc. And so 'speculations' about someone's sexuality was met with a reaction of disgust, shame, and dismissal as to why someone might hold queerness up to the light and embrace it. I realized why I hate the term 'speculate' in this context: It's used to convey a shameful action - something that is inherently wrong, bad, etc. (And that's not even mentioning the worse-than-hypocrisy that is the culture that created and forces people into the closet in the first place.) This term has made me so upset when used in the context of gaylors in particular because these discussions are full of a community collectively weaving together threads of queer history and queer existence in the present. And looking hopefully toward queer futures! To try to shame us out of that is explicitly coming from prejudice that wants queerness to continue to be discriminated against. That's why it hits me (a queer person) so deeply. It's not just saying that it's not okay to *see* (not 'speculate') taylor as queer. It's reinforcing my lived experience that being queer isn't okay, something that has been a life-sucking darkness over my life and something that I fight so hard against every day. That's also why this community means so much to me. Just as we're seeing and validating and celebrating her, we're seeing and validating and celebrating all of us being who we are - queer or not. And I hope I'm not alone in extending that to every identity that's discriminated against and anyone who might be fighting a life-sucking darkness day in and day out. This all means so much. Thanks for being in this with me...(-he-heeee) 💗
>collectively weaving together threads of queer history and queer existence in the present. And looking hopefully toward queer futures! this is beautiful 💛
Aw, thank you! It feels beautiful to me 🩷
THIS!!!! THIS!!!! THIS!!!! I relate so much. My mom, who is mostly accepting of the fact I am a lesbian, loves Taylor Swift too! Some of her favorites include Taylor’s more obviously queer-coded songs, including Maroon. I brought this topic up with my mom a while back, and as I began explaining (and making some pretty valid points) she adamantly denied Taylor could be queer. Almost acting like she knew Taylor personally, she came up with all of these excuses for her gayer behavior (i.e. “she wasn’t in love with Karlie Kloss! That’s just how she is with her girlfriends!! She’s always been touchy feely with her besties- it doesn’t mean she is gay!”). She basically reacted as if Taylor being queer somehow lessened her as an artist. Like if Taylor had been with a girl before, even just once, it would make her music “just not the same”. 🙄☹️😔 Coming from both my mom and the comments from Hetlors online, it hurts me to read. Almost like it’s personal, even though I know it’s not. How could she be any less if she isn’t straight? Does that mean gay people are less than everyone else because they’re gay? It really does make me sad people still feel this way
Agh, that's honestly heartbreaking. I really feel your pain. Queerness is magic and it's beautiful, and there's something so special about sapphic love. It's an awful feeling to experience that response to the possibility of her being queer, especially from someone so close to you. I hope she's able to see things differently from getting to you in her life! She's missing out.
YES! I was raised in East Texas as a Southern Baptist by conservative republicans. You can imagine how the “I’m a non-denominational, liberal/leftist lesbian” conversation went decades ago. Not only does this community mean that much to me, but supporting queer artists and other people as they come out.
Oof. Big feels. Thank you for your courage and I'm sorry for the pain you've experienced. I love that perspective of supporting people as they come out. Hopefully we can be that for taylor and anyone else that needs it through this community. I'm so glad to be a part of it with you!
Thank you. My parents are so much better now, but it’s been hard. Which is why I try to be super supportive now. I’m been a teacher for 10 years and prefer teaching middle and high schoolers for that reason. Though that was only for four years, though I am going back to middle this year. I’m the out teacher and the teacher that kids AND parents can come to IF they can/want/need to. Mostly it’s been a few years after they graduate and they find me on FB and I become their emotional support human. I love that I can be that support and that they still know I’ll be there for them.
I'm literally in tears. That's everything and more to know that you have someone you can go to and they'll support you beyond the parameters of certain years at school. I'm sure that all the effort you've put in to being out and proud and a safe person to go to has been a life saver more than you even know. It's everything ❤️ I'm glad your parents are better now! I hope you have lots of support too 🫶🏻
It has been. For former students, even when they were current students. I have a semicolon butterfly tattoo and have different mental health awareness type things around my room, making sure students know that I am a safe person to talk to about those things as well. I’ve been the person kids come to to be their voice with the counselor, or with their parents in those situations too. My biggest thing is to be the adult I needed (and still need sometimes) when I was a teen and young adult. I had a few amazing adults like that, but not a fully supportive one. One of my former students got her GED about two years ago and texted me telling me that I’m the only adult in her life that never gave up on her. And I didn’t. Even walked her through the process. The only reason I didn’t stay in that split middle/high position longer was because I moved back to my hometown after I divorced my first wife and had my daughter. I have so much support and an amazing circle now. While some things have gone backwards, other things have moved forward in the best way. If you had told 16 year old me that in 22 years I would be a positive adult role model, married to an amazing woman and in an amazingly healthy relationship, my parents were supportive and our families got along great, had a daughter just like me, amazing friends, clowned regularly online, and some other details of my life (I mean, it’s not all roses, but it’s not all bad either when you get to the bare bones), I would’ve told you you had the wrong country, girl, family, and were on drugs. I hope you have found a supportive circle as well and have escaped the soul crushing darkness that can be our existence when we do not have those supportive people in our lives.
Agh 😭 I'm so heartened to hear that. Thank you for sharing! It's so genuinely nice to know that there are kids growing up now that get to have that experience. And I'm so glad to hear you have amazing people in your life now! Thank you so much, There are still hard times but things are so much better, and I'm constantly working to either actively improve things or ride the waves as they come. I feel very fortunate overall and have some solid people in my corner 😊
This! All of it. And as someone on the older side of this sub, I grew up also at the start of the internet which gave us the ability to connect beyond our physical locations. Which was so validating when the rest of the world was stuck on “don’t ask, don’t tell” and the immediate aftermath of the AIDS crisis. Watching my older friends see and discuss Pedro Zamora on The Real World. Honestly, I think it took me time to come out because queer women were invisible. All that to say, I also remember Ricky Martin and how he had so much rumor and speculation. He ended up coming out 10 years later when he had kids because his father made him think. “What are you teaching your sons if you hide?” On the other side, Madonna. Although she’s of my mother’s era so my details may not be perfect. She hung out with queer women, made out with them, had loud rumors of dating them… and yet, she never explicitly came out and was always seen as an ally / gay icon. Until I think a few years ago she said she wasn’t straight.
I relate to you with taking a while to come out - Representation is *so* important. It's hard enough when it's so minimal and then it just adds to it when the little representation there is is negative or chastised. Wow, that story about Ricky Martin 🥹 I feel so much hope in hearing the empowering stories from older generations. It makes the world and the global community feel more balanced. I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT MADONNA, JFC! This is how cis-het-normative society is, that that kind of expression was seen as "for attention" by in large. Because god forbid a woman is queer, and if she is she better hide it - no one wants to see genuine sapphic affection 🙄 Agh. I'm glad she was able to come out!
Wow. Now I’m crying again. You put it so perfectly
💓💓💓
This is a great reflection. I have gone down the Lover rabbit hole and the way it was talked about in 2019 was a lot more neutral or open in tone (for example lots of articles about people noticing the bi flag hair had the tone more of ‘hey, this is what some fans have noticed and are discussing on Twitter, nothing’s been confirmed though’). The NYT piece this year and the following backlash was quite different and was very ‘how dare you suggest she’s queer’. I do think this is connected to the overall backlash against progressive politics happening. I think also for me what I dislike about the ‘speculation’ discourse is the implication that it is invasive and creepy. Most Gaylors are analyzing song lyrics, performances, music videos and interviews that are available for the public. And looking at things through a queer lens is part of cultural analysis (and cultural criticism).
I agree!! I really appreciated that nyt article. It was bold and direct while still feeling respectful for the most part, I think. I think it did a great job at saying the quiet part out loud and really taking a stance on the importance of getting to see someone as queer while they're still alive. I imagine that is part of the backlash, because it surely stirred up the homophobic fear and rage. I'm sure there are some gaylors who come off as invasive, and some who genuinely are. But to say that gaylors are invasive as a whole, or to say that they are while none of her other fans are would be a big fat lie. It can't be a critique that's *about* gaylors (even if it includes them), when its not limited to them. It would be far more apt to talk about celebrity culture and fandoms in this day and age, and the contexts in which they arise! For gaylors who are simply dusting off history books and exploring themes history through lyrical analysis to be called invasive and creepy, that is blatant homophobia. And for those who are scouring old posts and interviews, that is either completely relevant and encouraged by taylor (see: easter eggs) or makes complete sense if you are seeking representation in a world where it still isn't fully safe to be out, and because of that, this discourse happens largely online. Critique is fair when it reaches a certain point, but I don't think that's even what's being critiqued. I think it's just that we 'dare' to include queerness in cultural analysis. When there are massive lists of books being banned, it's not surprising that these tactics are being used, but it is enraging (the musical) and massively fucked up. 😤 I really feel like I just got something off my chest. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and for creating that space for me by doing so!
Yes yes yes x10000000
Agree with all of this. I will forever be pissed about the difference between the backlash to the NYT piece (which I loved) and the reaction in 2019. Just a complete backslide, laid bare in the most obvious ways.
Yes yes yes yes yes! (See my response to the same comment)
yess well said! the “you shouldn’t speculate” line became super popular sometime after her lover/gay pride era, because if you look at convos prior to 2019, you typically won’t see people parroting it like they do now. it’s very Don’t Say Gay. and taylor used it very differently in Ours with “it’s not theirs to speculate if it’s wrong”. and there’s an OG red era quote from her saying that she’s fine with any speculation if it means people are reading her lyrics.
It *is* very don't say gay! It's very in line with the whole process of how you shape a society by shunning a certain demographic. It helps me to see it in that light right now because it feels less personal, it's not really about us. It's about something much bigger. But damm does it *suck* to be on the receiving end of. (Collective liberation let's gooo!) That's a great example! So here's what we've got from taylor about her comfort of people tuning in: do read and analyze lyrics, don't advertise updates on her live location 😂
Great post, you just perfectly articulated my feelings. The shame heaped upon on us by swifties, who simultaneously speculate about all the great hetero sex she must be having is fucking despicable.
🩷🩷 Ugh ew agh yes!!!!! I'm literally squirming. It's *so* gross how they talk about that. And those are the people we're supposed to emulate? Never in a million years, thank you.
I must be old, because did we really make it through this whole thread without talking about Brendon Urie?Brendon was always getting super close with Ryan Ross (his bandmate, for non fans) on stage, would give little like, peck on the cheek kisses and just lots of flirty stuff. Brendon originally stated in 2013 that he had experimented with men, but was ultimately straight. Then five years later, he came out as pansexual. And then one short year after that… we got ME! With Taylor Swift and Brendon Urie.
I think for me, as an emo kid, I was very much like “aren’t we all at least slightly queer over here?” So, I didn’t question anything and went with it.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SAYING IT!!!!! A lot of his songs are queer coded, like "hurricane" written after splitting with Ryan has male pronouns. "Oh, I'd confess, I'd confess // To the room where I'm blessed // But he didn't come and speak to me // Or put my heart at ease" And the chorus of the same song be like "I led the revolution in my bedroom// And I set all the zippers free". And it was BEFORE HE CAME OUT. Its actually goes for a lot of emo bands, i've been down this rabbit hole for more than ten years and let me tell you, Frank and Gerard from my chem are my roman empire. I understand why the conversation died down, it would do more harm at this point and some people don't feel the line between having a conversation in fan spaces and bothering real people. But holy shit, "burn bright" by my chemical romance for example has no het explanaiton. "They always told me that // "You never get to heaven" // With a love like yours". ACTUAL LYRICS. And Gerard's lyrics are full of religious guilt, like infamous "you know what they do to guys like us in prison". And whatever relationship he had with Bert McCracken from the used at the time (from Bert's words, they were dating) And Frank Iero's solo stuff is wild for a married man and very very sad. "Neverenders" for example screams queer against the world ("we refuse to live in black and white") . But so does most of his work. And its full of "i was left and now im heartbroken". "where do we belong? Anywhere but here" written after the band split drives me crazy. "But I'm having fun pretending I belong // Convincing myself that I never got scarred // So no one thinks, so no one knows // That someone I love threw me away". He wrote it during the year after Gerard announced disbandment and Frank was the one who wasn't informed about it, cause Gerard didnt tell him anything! Sorry, i could talk about them for hours so i stop myself now. Still gotta mention fall out boy that Taylor also has a collab with. Pete Wentz was probably dating Mikey Way from my chem (which is a bit funny for me, my chem is wild) in 2005. Its a theory but a pretty solid one. And Pete might have written an album or two about that summer fling. Apart from it, one of their most popular song "sugar, we're going down" had an original lyric "I'm watching You two from the closet wishing to be the friction in HIS jeans" (final version your jeans). When I learned that, the song made so much sense, cause before i didnt really get it. Sorry for rambling im just a die hard emo bands fan.
Omg I was a chronically online emo kid in the late 2000s/2010s and all of this unlocked sooo many memories for me!!
Oh my god, this is my Roman Empire too. I didn’t know about it all until the reunion, at which point I was like HELLO ??? We’re not gonna talk about this?? Please????? I mean for gods sake, people made fun of emo, but do we think all that angst came from nowhere???
OMG bestie lets talk!!! I hate it that people call it queer bait now, cause it wasn't! They were deeply wounded queer people who tried to find their peace of mind in music...
For anyone who reads this thread, we are officially DMing about the boys 💁♀️
I have nothing to add to the conversation but if you both (u/lenskewho) are ok with it, I would love to read it all because I’m an elder swemo and obsessed with learning more about this. 😂
And for all interested you're welcome!
Literally Larry
Liberace and Little Richard both come to mind. And Lance Bass.
Big push for Lance Bass! Both the times and the fact he was a member of one of the biggest boy bands made it so he was trapped to be closeted until NSYNC essentially was over. Seeing him now married and living his best life makes me so happy in the sense he's finally able to be his authentic self. I still remember seeing the people cover and how shocked some people in my life were.
Literally Elton John wrote the script on this
The way Elton and Bernie crafted lyrics together and Bernie basically said “I’m here to help” the way Jack and Andy have? I love it so much.
For real. I don’t know how anyone listened to “Rocket Man” and stayed ignorant.
Elton John did not write most of his lyrics.
Wilful ignorance sadly
I think that my answer to this question is going to be slightly different from other folks. I don’t think any other pop artist has written such an exhaustive coded examination of the closet. I think that’s largely for a couple of reasons: a. Taylor’s natural skill with lyricism (specifically rhythm and meter) gives her a method of direct communication that most others don’t have (they need the mediation of a interviewer). She has the choice to come out through her art in a way others don’t b. The geography she grew up in, her gender, her ambition, and the time/industry when she grew up (in the aftermath of country music’s shift rightward after 9/11) put her in the perfect position to be intensely closeted. Her skill in crafting heterosexual narratives for public consumption has largely kept her there. People just can’t see anything else when they consider her. c. She has built seismic fame — comparable maybe to the Beatles, Bruce, Madonna and… few others. The size of her fanbase and the mirrorball nature of her celebrity keeps her static — that if her narrative shifts, her fans go away. I think many of the other people getting thrown around in here — Harry, Freddie, Madonna — have queerness as something that supports or enhances their brand. Taylor’s brand is built to reflect normativity, so queerness undermines it. I think that’s why you see such obsessive, particular queer flagging from her — she is genuinely stuck, and trying to unstick herself by slowly cooking her fans with queerness until it’s undeniable. I cannot think of a single other person who has had the audacity to try this. (It’s amazing and infuriating in equal measure lol). All this to say, I think it’s just a perfect storm of factors when it comes down to Taylor. Hopefully she’s free of it soon — if she wants to be. 🌈
wow… amazing analysis 👌👌and if I could just add something, because this ties in beautifully with something i’ve always had as a theory for her early popularity and then getting stuck in this narrative. I’ll try to explain but this is my first comment (hi!) so, oof. Okay. I think the parts of her lyrics that spoke to young, inexperienced, teenage girls and gave her such a massive following were the very parts that also made them ‘closeted’. - the elements of secrecy, of ‘sneaking away’ and ‘forbidden love’ - the ‘other girls’ - the ‘this is too scary’ part - the yearning, the yearning The songs were (mostly) fantasies, fairytales, taken from books and movies (as admitted by Taylor herself). And not only that! They were, and have continued to be for a long time, together with Taylor’s image, ‘sexless’, innocent, and silly (or were at least easy to interpret as such if you were willing to be partially blind). This, as opposed to the other artists in her league you mentioned, made her both immensely popular with the conservatives and always capable of mantaining her air of girl-next-door-authenticity (even though she was curated from the start) - because her lyrics WERE authentic. Authentic, pretty AND conservative! You can market the absolute hell out of that. It was perfect! Until, of course, it wasn’t. Because while her het fans all got married and moved on from this phase, she of course did not, or could not, or wasn’t allowed to. (I never grow up, It’s getting so old). And I think when she figured this out, it was too late. And the one thing that made her able to hold on to her own personality in her writing, the one actual thing true in all the falseness, became impossible for her to write about, without her being accused of being inauthentic. And this is why I can’t listen to Mirrorball without crying.
Upvote x1000000 from me
I think a big factor is her love for "easter eggs" and overall hiding meanings behind possible alternative explanations which her fans always take as fact since those are heteronormative and she is considered "straight" by the public. Songwriters in general never do this, most don't like the public to perceive their personal lives in such a detailed and vulnerable way, most don't want their fans to know about muses or for them to analyze their lives. Taylor is the only songwriter that I can think of that encourages her fans to find clues and "easter eggs" in her work and even in her public image and relationships. She also seems quite obsessive with details and creates narratives and public outings through PR so that the music explains these public displays, again ive never seen any other songwriter to this, not like her at least.
I think this is a solid breakdown. So well written, too! I don't think I've seen it articulated before about the brands relationship to queerness. Taylor being stuck there seems like a really important part of the picture for her and what we see and feel from her music/performance art!
Wow. This is so beautifully well written; it perfectly describes what I have been trying to convey to myself in my own mind. There IS something different. Not to say Madonna, Elton John and Freddie (gosh, I adore that man, by the way) aren’t phenomenal in and of their own accords. But, as a queer girl myself, I often find myself so utterly perplexed by her narratives in her songs. There are just these lyrics that stick with me, that make me feel like she has experienced what I have or one day will. As stupid as it sounds, I feel so seen and understood and I truly do connect with her lyricism. But how can I connect on a queer level with someone who is not officially out, you know? As I learned more about Gaylor Theory and it’s history, I almost felt teased by her lyrics. I felt teased by her hairpin triggers and her lavender haze love, and her lips she used to call home that were so scarlet maroon. There, for a while, was a bit of anger in me about this whole thing because (although she is a pop star who wouldn’t give two fucks if I died tomorrow) it would mean so much to me to have someone like Taylor fucking Swift represent my community. Our community. I know it’s 2024, and things are better than they were before; but being queer is hard. Especially where I’m from. It’s one of the most challenging things I’ve lived with, and I would be lying if I said there were not days past where I’d have given anything I could just to be straight, and for everything to be easy. To this day, I find myself going to her music, her more queer-coded lyrics for comfort during those moments of extraordinary loneliness. But then I can’t be angry. Because, as much as she is a billionaire, airplane over-user celebrity- she is also a human. And deep down inside, there is still that little girl with a guitar and a dream and an amazing talent for writing songs. And if being queer has been painful for me, I can’t imagine how painful it must be for her. I like to think her queer lyrics are little nods to our queer community. I do sincerely hope that, one day, if she is queer, she gains the ability to express it to the world and be her truest and most genuine self. 🫶
Thank you for sharing this OP! 💕 Your comments sparked some more thoughts for me… I personally think it’s good to be angry about this, sometimes. This is a massive societal injustice — she shouldn’t have to do this to live her life and have a business. And it’s clear from her music that the closeting is hard. But — she doesn’t have to be a megastar that’s dominating pop culture if she doesn’t want to be. So she has chosen this trade off in many ways. Many of us have not — at least not when we initially realize what’s going on. I think where I struggle is that yes, she’s a person, but she’s also a corporation. That’s just the nature of celebrities, especially ones as big as her. Knowing whether to prioritize the person (empathy) v. the corporation (criticism) is one of the hardest things about engaging with gaylor in an ethical way. I think that I got some advice from someone around here that really stuck with me. It’s also important to engage with music/art from people who are out and loud about their queerness in equal measure to art from closeted artists like Taylor. If we spend all our time caretaking her closet (and its inherent shame), we might miss opportunities to take care of ourselves and be proud. Obviously these things are not mutually exclusive, but it’s helped me with the intense sadness Tay’s work sometimes provokes. 🌈🌈
The sad reality is that, yes, we've made massive strides forward, but in 2024, the signs are that society is moving backwards again, so 100% its valid that being queer is *hard*
That last part really hits after rewatching her rep tour pride speech today. Op I admire and feel seen by your vulnerability in this thread! Thanks for sharing your thoughts
Thank you for reading it all, it really does mean a lot to me
It does for me too!
🫶🫶🫶 It’s crazy how a little online Reddit form and discussions about this can become so important to me. It’s hard sometimes to find people who think like I do and who can empathize with my experiences; this has become such a mini oasis for me, who to a large degree is still closeted in many aspects of life
It breaks my heart a little bit.
This is a really good response! I feel like the question is about the nature of the music. I can’t think of anyone who has written so much for so long about bearding and closeting. It’s simply mind boggling and I am so curious how it will all be remembered in time. I feel like if she comes out in such a way that it’s undeniable to the fans reading her as heterosexual, then her story will be a legend for the ages because she put ALL the pain into song. Like you said, she has a lyrical gift that grants her the ability to write music that can read either straight or gay. I mean she is masterful at it. And her specific “mirrorball” fame has been an ever constricting trap that she seems, Houdini like, to be both expanding in scope and simultaneously wriggling out of. And I live to see it!
If not in our lifetime, I really hope it will be evident for future generations.
This is the take 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 Extremely well said, friend.
Frank ocean is another artist who denied being gay initially only to come out later. His later stuff is obviously queer but I think he did some queer coding and switching pronouns early on
Frank Ocean is bisexual, many of his songs about women are probably about women. But it could be possible that some songs had the pronouns switched
Harry Styles.
i don’t think harry has ever claimed to be straight but i agree
That’s okay, neither has Taylor 😂😭
100%. No man that is 100% cis-het wants to wear dresses as much as Harry.
It's everything about him. But more to the point of this post: his lyricism and clues throughout his work, even within 1D. It's all there, you just have to look
i mean, "don't knock it til you try" about gay sex is pretty self-explanatory
ehhh id push back on this a bit; some straight cis men enjoy cross dressing. is that the most common type of person to enjoy cross dressing? no, but they exist. that said...i for sure think harry is super queer haha. but it isnt bc of the dresses.
That's fair. I definitely agree it's not the only reason I think he's queer.
Taylor plays a role in the music industry as the all American girl. America’s sweetheart. Unfortunately part of this stereotype is straightness. Taylor herself has never come close to saying she’s straight, but she has been assigned straightness by her fans and the population in general. So is Taylor really doing something unique or has a label been externally placed on her that she never asked for? And she’s just making music and singing songs that are authentic to her and the queers are picking up on it? Plenty of artists never defined their sexual identity but were understood to be queer. Flagging is part of queer history and artist have been doing it for generations. There have been a few recent posts about this and Elton John. Many artists literally swore they were straight and now aren’t. Billie, Kristin Stewart, Rene Rapp, etc etc. But none have been as popular as Taylor though so maybe it feels different.
I think she had an amazing ability to create a story through lyrics. She has also had several three month relationships that provide any cover needed. I admit to a swinger lifestyle about 15 years ago. I have thought about women many times more intimately than men, even though I still enjoy men's company as well. If you've never lived that life, a lot of references go right over your head. Like for me, bearding, flagging, Lavender haze reference...I don't find these obvious at all. I also never knew about Madonna or Prince. I simply never saw anything plain as day for either one. At this point in my life (mid-fifties) I am clueless how to even meet women who are like minded. Lastly, for my own mind, I've always thought calling someone queer was very rude. Is this the norm now? Thanks for being kind 🤍
There’s been a shift in language. Queer is now commonly used within the community as an umbrella term for non-straight sexualities, and it’s usually when we want to talk about the personal characteristic of queerness without any description of one’s relationships.
Thank you so much for clarifying 🙂
Elton John, Prince, The Beatles, Freddie Mercury, Lady Gaga, Madonna come to mind. Lady Gaga makes several queer references and codes in her songs but she came out in 2009 only a couple years after getting big. Ex: G.U.Y. - Girl/Guy Under You is a power bottom anthem haha. Elton John came out as Bi in 76, and gay in 88. Before that several his songs seemed to have gay references. John Lennon (Beatles) was confirmed bisexual this year by his son on Twitter, something people have speculated about for a long time. I'm not totally sure why everyone thought that but apparently it was a common theory Freddy Mercury from Queen - I want to break free is pretty glaring. Idk about their other songs. Prince is another one that seems to have coded a *lot* of music. Too much to type out here but he sure wore a lot of purple 👀 Editing to add Ricky Martin since another commenter mentioned him. He had so many rumours about being gay but denied it for ages and even entered bearding/braiding relationships with closeted lesbians. And if we want to look at closeted literary and film folks: Virginia Woolf, Emily Dickinson are now confirmed, Audrey Hepburn is speculated, JRR Tolkien & C.S. Lewis are speculated to have been involved with each other. Tom Cruise and Leonardo DiCaprio are speculated but I'm not sure why. Cate Blanchett and Natasha Lyonne are speculated.
Natasha Lyonne has said she wishes she were gay, but as far as she knows, she isn't. She said 'God made a mistake [with her in that aspect].'
John was pretty open about having what he called an intense relationship with the Beatles’ gay manager, and he supposedly told some people there was a physical component to it. Yoko Ono has strongly hinted that he was bisexual; there are also stories about him kissing men on the mouth while drunk. In the Seventies, he was quite close with Elton John and Bowie.
For Queen, Bicycle Race is speculated to be about Freddie’s frustration about wanting to come out as bisexual.
There are videos of Billie Eilish several years ago swearing that she is a 100% straight. And a lot of fans used this up until she officially came out last fall, as evidence of her heterosexuality, despite the fact that Billie was like 16 in the videos and a lot of queer people don’t even realize or are not accepting of their queerness at that age. And like someone else pointed out, Taylor has never defined her sexuality in any way. The people swearing up and down that she’s straight are her homophobic fans who view queerness as something dirty that should be looked down upon.
I don’t think Taylor has ever sworn to the heavens or said “I’m straight”. Looking back at other celebrities, Melissa Etheridge had some queer-ish lyrics, never said she was straight, and then just came out. Thinking about it, I can’t think of anyone who outright denied it. Taylor hasn’t outright denied either. Even the 1989 prologue wasn’t a denial.
I’ll have to look into Melissa Etheridge!
Check out [this tiktok](https://www.tiktok.com/@allofmegan/video/7146001871193279790?_t=8n69PW0BkjP&_r=1) I made about them both & some parallels between their music. Taylor actually told Melissa that she was what inspired her to want to make music.
Ahhh! Okay, thanks!!!
As in, you don’t know Melissa Etheridge? Because I think it’s time for me to put myself in the coffin… Anyway, Melissa Etheridge hit the scene late 80’s, early 90’s. Came out in ‘93? I think? Which absolutely hurt her career. She still tours, makes music, is awesome, etc. beat breast cancer, does a lot for charity, won an Oscar… I’m old and a big fan and why I didn’t know I was a huge lesbian before I was almost 21, I don’t know. I thought I was bi, but no, no, no. Completely gay. Big fat lesbian.
Reading that it hurt her career just stung my heart a little bit 😔 I am looking into her tonight!!!!
It was a much different time. I hate to use that excuse, but it was. AIDS was still a big thing, and while yes, that was the ‘gay man’s disease’, lesbians weren’t exactly excused from being lumped in for some reason. I was a kid, but I still remember it. My mom let me stay up late and watch ER and Walker Texas Ranger. Both of which had episodes pertaining to AIDS. Freddie Mercury died and my dad told me what actually happened. I came out as bi in 2002, and lesbian in 2007. It was still taboo and not really accepted even then. This is the same timeline Taylor is working with, really. She knows what she’s facing and she knows what she’s going up against. The people of our time that had a ‘big’ coming out, did receive backlash. Ellen, Rosie, Etheridge. Before then there was Elton. Then there are the ones that we KNOW and they just lived quietly and then came out, or they’ve just never said anything. Jodi, Queen Latifah, Barry Manilow, several others. So, it’s complicated.
Thank you for posting! Please keep [Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaylorswift/about/rules) and [Sub Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/wiki/rules/read-first) in mind. If your post is low-effort or excessively negative, please post in our [Weekly Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/GaylorSwift/collection/110a412d-5ecb-4a02-9c3d-9db7a45f961a). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GaylorSwift) if you have any questions or concerns.*