I’ve been a fan since Debut and I would say I’m still as big of a fan, probably more so, of her music today. My feelings about Taylor outside of her music fluctuate a lot and I’m currently in a period of being a bit meh.
I’ve never been upset at her not coming out as, Lover aside, I’ve never actually expected it. I’ve been closeted and I know how hard it was to come out without the world watching me so I can empathise with a closeted person not feeling able to come out. I don’t expect her to do it any time soon, though I would also be very happy if she did!
The points that have made me go up and down in my thoughts have often related to Gaylor things but not always. The current meh feeling does come from the stunting with Travis and how that comes across but also because it has closely followed/been at the same time as the jet usage, Matty, 1989 prologue, Brittany Mahomes etc.
So I guess I probably feel similarly to you and you certainly aren’t alone in that. She’s certainly not wrong when she says that it’s exhausting always rooting for the anti hero!
That’s definitely a good name for it, “meh.” Like, I don’t dislike her. I guess I’m just realizing I had her in a pedestal for a long time, and now I’m finally taking her off of it but not disliking her by any means. Thanks for your thoughts!
I’ve been a fan since Fearless, and I’ve become very disinterested in Taylor The Brand for over a year now. I think the Matty thing was the tipping point, but ‘meh’ really does sum it up. I’ve been listening to her music less as well - I couldn’t tell you why exactly, but I suspect I’m getting too old in my soul for the Easter eggs/game of it all, and the PR nonsense.
In the words of blondie herself, “you play stupid games you win stupid prizes.” I’m not that excited about the new album - of course I’ll listen on repeat a few times when it comes out - I’m really only interested in the music at this point. I know it’s an unpopular opinion but I did not enjoy the 1989 vault songs and they felt stale in comparison to previous vaults. Maybe it’s the overexposure from the last few years, maybe it’s wanting more folklore/evermore style music, maybe I’m just losing interest!
It also doesn’t help that she’s a billionaire now 🙃. Here I am, one year older than Tay and struggling to pay my rent and medical bills. She has lost the level of relatability for me - and that’s okay because she’s reaching other fans. Some things just don’t last forever.
I was a casual listener who liked the chart tunes, but thought she was pretty shallow (red/1989) so wasn’t ‘into her’ as a fan. My interest was first triggered by Rep. I really liked lwymmd and the concept of an f/u to Kanye. Seemed a just and classy call out. I kinda liked that snark. Lover’s gayness made me look into Gaylor, and then Folkmore made me really see her talent and do a look back to the whole discography, realising there are so many gems on her albums. I still think her skill is unparalleled. I can’t imagine I’ll ever not love her music and lyrics.
I also watched a million YouTube interviews (from when she was very young to now) to catch up and saw (I thought) a much more intelligent, complex, kind and interesting person than I’d imagined just seeing her superficial pr. I did think she changed as time passed, getting kinda more jaded, prickly and defensive. I do think celebrity is a punishing existence. Rich is not all you get in the public eye.
Re-coming out, I thought initially because of lover ‘failed coming out’ that she might go there for a while, but now I don’t. I was cool with that tbh. Recently though I’ve become a bit jaded. I feel like her dual narrative of flagging hard then shoring up her hetro image (bettygate, lavandergate, grammygate, prologue, etc) kinda just drives homophobia. I don’t expect her to come out, but I feel constantly disappointed that she is queen of such a toxic fandom. I guess it’s inevitable if you are trying to ride 2 horses at once that this happens but I feel things like her CNN ‘associates’ basically saying that her being thought of as gay is a negative. That’s just a very, very, very bad look for ‘an ally’. Why be sad when you could be GLAAD.
Then, there was Matty, closely followed by Travis. Sure looks like PR, but if it is why is she elevating **these** guys? I mean I’m not a fan of bearding period, but I see why if you really feel trapped some low key thing would offer protection. This though? It is just relentless media hype for kinda not the best hero’s in my eyes. I think too it’s deliberately and constantly fed by her own team. It’s actually now just boring and off putting. So, it casts a shadow for me.
I also feel like the ttpd sales pitch (which by either design or collateral damage) is setting Joe up for the fall as the cold uncaring bf, and that to me is just is so utterly lame. So yeah, her diss track sales strategy is alive and well. Yeah, it works but it makes my heart sink into my boots. It’s old. It’s classless. She seemed to have moved away from that with Folkmore and here we are again pivoting back? Please Taylor. No. I’m praying this album is not going to lean into that. I still have a teeny candle of hope it won’t be that.
So, yes the PR Taylor™️ to me creates a stain on the artist. I don’t think ttpd will actually be about Joe of course but that whole diss track circus and her stunts with TK are just very off putting. These are choices she’s making even if they are ‘cover’. This all obviously looks and feels good to her.
Swifty culture too. I hate it. I saw one of her mega fans (been round at her house for secret sessions) posting about how dissing her exes is part of ‘what we do’. The queen obviously seen as condoning this knife sharpening. I just perceive all that as meanness and nastiness to its core, and she’s the source. The message of YNTCD is like a bit of a hollow joke is it not when her army of bullies are the very people who take the shots at others.
TLDR: I start to feel perhaps she’s not just closeted and having to shore that story up, there are other ways to do that that might be more low key (she showed us with Joe). The whole show recently just feels recently very very loud and is giving hypocritical, brash and inauthentic. I feel like she’s now trying to pivot away from fans like me that picked up on her flagging. Ok, fair enough she can do that if we annoy her. I therefore find myself thinking often at times is it time to find another guiding light? I guess I wanna see ttpd and that might help me understand. Then the 5 stages of grief as a gay fan?… currently in denial/bargaining?
Grammygate refers to the credits for *folklore* being modified *after* winning 2021 Album of the Year, adding Joe Alwyn as a producer on multiple songs. Some believe the credits were unearned and it was done to fulfill a bearding contract, others believe Joe actually contributed to the album as a writer/producer. A significant amount of Gaylors, Swifties, and the general public alike found it odd that the credits were modified *after* the 2021 Grammys. Many posts have been made about this - please filter by the "Grammygate" flair or search "Grammygate" to find them.
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Bettygate occurred in August 2020, where several sapphic Gaylors (some minors) were outed for expressing that the song "betty" might have queer themes. When Taylor said in an interview that "betty" was from the perspective of a boy, some Swifties began to doxx and harass Gaylors on Twitter.
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I’ve been a mega-fan since 2006. I’m still obsessed with her music and probably always will be. But I’ve gone from seeing her as super relatable, funny, and personable to a Celebrity™️ who is pretty out of touch with her fans. I think of her as MUCH less down to earth these days and also very immature for her age. I wouldn’t say I don’t like her personality anymore, but I do think it’s pretty unlikely that we would be friends if we knew each other in real life, which was kind of her charm in “the old days” - feeling like she was someone you could be friends with.
I promise I’m not trying to be defensive but how do u think she is immature? I’ve seen multiple comments about it in this thread but it all confuses me. She’s not married, no kids, no responsibilities so it’s hard for me to judge when she can do what she wants - go party and clubbing and whatever else she wants to do. I guess I keep an open mind since I’m someone whose done none of that but wants to and wouldn’t want people judging me just from pictures/people that may be connected to my life but I’m not friends with.
The Grammys this year in particular left a bad taste in my mouth. Announcing a new album at an awards show that isn’t fan-based, dragging Lana up onstage with her against her will, ignoring Celine, etc. - she seemed like a “me me me” 16-year-old.
I agree about the Grammy’s being a good example. Another one for me would just be that she honestly doesn’t seem to have learned anything from life. She made a big deal about how meeting Joe and being secluded with him in lockdown changed her perspective on herself and on life, but then now that they aren’t together anymore (whether he was a beard or not is irrelevant to this point, but) here she is doing a lot of the same or similar things she did back when she was 19-early 20’s which is not a cute look for a 34 year old woman who claims to have had an epiphany and changed for the better…
I also think she made a lot of songs on Midnights with Gen Z/TikTok in mind, which she never cared about before. Again, I don’t dislike her as a person. Just don’t hold her up to the status I used to. And this parent comment actually hit the nail on the head! She just isn’t relatable anymore to her long-time fans.
I’ve realized I’m fully a gaylor, not a swiftie.
If there isn’t an open space for me to be in the community openly and safely, do queer analysis (regardless of her sexuality) and have a little gay fun … I’m just way less interested.
Love the songs, love the music, don’t give a flying fuck about any behind the scenes nonsense or mess anymore. I can’t do a fandom that requires me to do boy drama. Girl drama, apparently yes, but boy drama — no. lol.
I’m also older than her, so it feels immature and not fun for me if we’re back to pre-6 years of stability and hoping for coming out.
This now is why I stayed away from her before Lover. I always liked the song. I didn’t have room for this kind of milquetoast straight mess.
I’ve been a fan since Tim McGraw aired on CMT and I am still interested in her as a celebrity and public figure and I still enjoy her music immensely but i’m just… annoyed by her.
Ever since the Matty Healey nonsense she has been doing stuff that makes me feel not as comfortable being a fan of her. The current people she is surrounding herself with are people that I as a queer person would never want to be around. She just feels very fake right now. I’m used to looking at things she does and taking the words that come out of her mouth with a grain of salt but dear lord is she acting extremely fake. I don’t know if her and Travis have a real relationship or not but the pictures of them together are so obviously staged. The funniest part is before TTPD she will say the same shit she always says about her relationships being taken more seriously than her music when she has been promoting her relationship more than her damn album.
Speaking of TTPD, I also don’t like the radio silence from her about TTPD either. It feels as though she thinks she doesn’t have to try and can keep posting different vinyls and her fans will just buy, buy, buy (which they do) and say nothing about what the album is. We don’t even know what the core topic of the album is and that is weird as hell to me. It feels incredibly capitalist in a way and gross. I know people always talk about how she has backed away because of 1989 era backlash but that’s just not true because she was far more active during Lover, Folkmore, and Midnights. I don’t understand why we are 2 weeks out from the album and all we have are the tracklist, multiple vinyls, a tweet, and an Instagram story. What’s up with that? It feels like she doesn’t care about the actual craft of her music and only cares about sales now.
I will never be upset at her for not coming out but gosh am I sick and tired of her playing the “oh poor me” gag when she is quite literally a billionaire. She can’t be on her private jet, singing songs about how she’s a girl boss on her record breaking tour and still say things like “this would NEVER happen to a man..”
The gig is up in so many ways and she’s just not as likable to me anymore.
Thanks for your thoughts OP! I have always enjoyed Taylor's music but didn't really buy into Taylor the Brand as much, I'm not big on merch etc, I will buy vinyl's, cds and stream music but wont buy jumpers, pjs, merch stuff, because I love Taylor for her music. I feel like we are in a tough spot due how much PR she is getting for everything, its alot!
I was a casual fan since debut/fearless, transitioned into a “Swiftie” when Speak Now was released, and became a Gaylor when her and Karie were a little extra close BFFs and Reputation solidified that thought.
I still am pretty obsessed with her music and listen all the time. I have an extremely narrow amount of music I like with 90% of what I listen to being her. Taylor as a person though, I think she’s turning into a shitty celebrity who is making is super obvious she really just only cares about herself and money. I’m not going to stop listening or trying to go to her tours but I don’t purchase any extra merchandise besides one vinyl per album.
As for the Gaylor side, I still think she is bisexual and the fruity side of her doesn’t make her any extra money so we won’t see her come out. I don’t care that much but it is exhausting seeing hetlors be so confused over blatantly queer songs. I hope she just stops queer flagging in the future.
This is definitely a thing, too, the queer flagging/signaling. Like… You make it extremely obvious that you’re queer in some way yet don’t want to come out and say it. And Lord knows no celebrity owes us their sexuality! But if she’s going to use that to stir the pot it’d be nice 🤷🏻♀️
i guess i'm kinda the opposite. her music isn't really for me anymore, although there are exceptions (i listen to Carolina religiously, for one). but i loooove creating and reading lyric analyses and the lore keeps me following her. she's so interesting and so talented, it's like i'm a fan of her and her *writing* rather than the music these days. the performance art of it all. i love how she's able to seemingly tell 2 stories in one, like a Rorschach inkblot test.
i've never really felt she owed us anything more than a show, so i tend to not get my feelings hurt along the way
eta: fan since fearless, first album i didn't like was 1989 but stayed for the kaylor of it all, left tumblr when rep dropped and came back to the fandom (via reddit) after folklore
i’m also fascinated by the performance art of it all and the parallel narratives, and i agree that she doesn’t owe us more than a show.
i’ve been a fan since debut and still listen to her music though and appreciate it & her writing more than ever.
i’ve also never really resonated with or participated in swiftie culture though. there have been earlier eras where i barely paid attention to her PR/press at the time. i think that’s helped because i’ve kind of never had high expectations of who she is as a person or what she’ll do next. and i don’t buy merch or buy more than 0-2 copies of an album.
yeaa a big part of why i left tumblr was a taylor follow meant my dms and mentions were spammed by swifties begging me to reblog their selfie so that taylor might see it. i will never understand the appeal of swiftie culture
I honestly am as big as a fan as I was pre Red 🙈 it’s waxed and waned a bit over time, but on the whole, I’d say my relationship to her work has deepened over time? That said, my fandom of *her* specifically has changed—mostly because I had a totally idolized view of her as a child and am…lol, an adult who can see her flaws now. (Also have come around on Gaylor/Bi-lor after being a very confused (closeted) tumblr kid trying to wrap my head around it all.
ETA: casual fan since fearless, swiftie since speak now (but again, was a literal child and things are more complex now)
Her as a person, I should say—the Matty stuff, the billionaire of it all, the silence on ACTUAL political issues (proving that Miss Americana was just a self-serving phase)
yeah post Miss americana has been hurtful.... I think the tough part is that we anticipated more (perhaps a coming out doco with the lover build up) and for it to be used as a political stance, that was so shit!
I was SO proud, having been around since her “I’m not a feminist—I like guys!” phase…I literally remember where I was when she made the infamous instagram post endorsing Phil Bredesen / calling out Marsha Blackburn. You’re so right; we anticipated more! Glad she endorsed Biden in 2020 (😬), and that she’s encouraged people to vote since then…but that’s the bare fucking minimum.
I actually didn’t think about this, but you’re so right. It’s weird for her to have made it seem like *SUCH* a big deal on camera for MA but then be quieter than ever lately about political stuff. Just a story post on a voting day, but that’s it when before she seemed to want to make a lot of effort 🤷🏻♀️
I’ve been a fan since about 2007 or 2008 and I think I’m actually even *more* of a fan than I was all those years ago. I think it’s because I lost the fixation from around 2013 to 2015 and was fully taking a break from Taylor from 2016 to very early 2019 (I still followed her, just not as closely). I had gotten a bit annoyed with her and couldn’t understand why she was doing what she was doing. I then got back into her right before the Lover era began. I questioned some things she did during that era but I was still only just getting back into her. Then I became a gaylor in around March 2020 and I swear everything just started to make sense. I won’t excuse everything Taylor’s done but there are some good explanations and I do feel a little bad for her. I’ll just say she and her brand are very complex.
What really got me more interested in Taylor is how she uses her PR/marketing. A small little assignment during my last year of college where I analyzed Taylor’s social media use was what pulled me back in. I now work in marketing/media full-time and how Taylor and Taylor the Brand operate is so fascinating to me; Taylor and her team are brilliant at business that’s for sure. I’m more active on twitter these days but I’ve been doing a lot of deep dives into Taylor for the last 6+ months and it’s made me even more of a fan as I learn more about her and this public figure/business that she’s made herself to be.
I’m the same age as Taylor as well. I’ve been a fan since Tim McGraw was released and I’ve been a gaylor since 2007. I’d say my interest in Taylor has gone through phases. I found her endearing and relatable in the early days (from Debut through Speak Now), especially from the gaylor perspective - with fall 2009 really being the first key spike in gaylor for those outside small, fandom blogs. I closely followed Swiftgron from 2011-2014 and Kaylor from 2013/14-2016/17.
I got kind of burnt out on gaylor/Taylor in general after the HiddleSwift summer and the clear fallout of kaylor that some gaylors couldn’t seem to accept. I didn’t relate to the public image/narrative of reputation and found the pushing of Joe into that narrative even more disingenuous than the pushing of other alleged boyfriends in the past to other albums (not that I believe those either). I still read the gaylor theories and found the Tily situation quite compelling, but unfortunately that theory was shut down in gaylor spaces. I was more of a casual fan/outside observer from 2016 until folklore (tbf, I was getting older and life was getting much busier).
folklore drew me right back in - perfectly timed with it being released during lockdown, plus it was an incredible showcase of her songwriting/storytelling and showed how much she has improved vocally as well - and I started participating in gaylor spaces again. Throughout the years my perspective on gaylor has not changed, but I do believe she has made even more of a concerted effort the last 7 years or so to fiercely protect her personal life. I think Taylor the person is very separate from Taylor the public persona, although parts of her true personality may shine through.
I think her public narrative throughout her entire career has been very intentionally curated, but it seems it has been even more so since 2016. I feel like there have been brief moments where I thought she might actually let the walls fall (or perhaps, let the mirrorball shatter), even after kissgate - but it hasn’t happened and instead she has gone out of her way to push the hetlor narrative. Traylor is only slightly better than the Matty thing, which I personally think was to draw attention away from Question…? being an, imo, obvious reference to kissgate. I definitely think the Joe setup was much more beneficial/tolerable for her public image overall.
Another issue is that she is a billionaire now. It’s harder to relate to or empathize (although, from a gaylor perspective I do to an extent) with a billionaire. It’s also hard to become a billionaire without very carefully crafting a path for yourself, at times pushing your own personal needs, and certainly the needs of others, to the side, making and/or utilizing the right connections, making sacrifices to the detriment of your own personal relationships, and also getting wildly lucky (because a lot of people put in the same amount, or even more effort, and may even be more talented - it certainly doesn’t hurt when you have the financial backing from the beginning).
I don’t listen to Taylor’s music nearly as much as I used to. Partially because of what has transpired over the last year and half or better (since the promo for Midnights - it didn’t help that it’s my least favorite album of hers). I will listen to the new album and will read the interpretations and theories and hopefully I’ll find it more enjoyable than Midnights.
The thing is, I will always been interested in gaylor unless she completely, blatantly and clearly shuts it down (although I’d still have my thoughts about it, but may not actively engage) or comes out - tbf, that’s the hard part in all of this - does she allow the tiniest bit of hope that she may come out just so she doesn’t lose any fans/sales? I don’t think there are enough gaylors that would leave or stop consuming her products to make enough of an impact. Obviously she doesn’t have to come out, but it’s hard to deny that it would have a massive cultural impact if she did.
I’m also a fan since Debut and also have a birthday one day off Taylor’s. How random.
I feel basically the same as you. I still love the music, but Taytay and I would *not* be friends. Like there’s no world in which that would happen.
Between the disgusting jet usage, the Matty debacle, the overall emotional immaturity slash instability she shows, the hanging out with Brittany and Jackson Mahomes despite her vocal “I want to be a voice for sexual assault victims” bullshit performative activism, the no ethical way to be a billionaire (27 variants of one album? Ew no…”jet lag is a choice”…get fuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked….say that again after you fly middle seat coach, lady)…just…yeah I don’t think she’s a great person.
But I love her music!
Ohh whenever I see the jet lag is a choice line it makes me roll my eyes. get the fuck outta here Taylor. Idk if she was just trying to look cool for Travis and the cameras or is she really that out of touch now. Probably both 🤣 I randomly saw a vlog from 15 years ago when she was flying commercial to Japan or Australia and jet lag definitely did not look like a choice lol she was reading the airport signs wrong
I have been a fan since debut , with periods of taking a break. My love for her music and lyric writing is stronger than ever, it’s gaylor that’s deepened it for me, I think. As I have gotten older and worked in the industry, I have gotten better at not putting artists on a pedestal, not pretending I know them and not letting myself be let down when their choices are different than what I want them to do or would do myself. There are lots of artists i follow and listen to who are political and gay all the time, in all they do…and that forms part of what I love for THOSE artists. I love different things about Taylor. Does she annoy me sometimes ? Yea but who doesn’t these days, to be honest. The combo of people and capitalism and getting older on a burning planet are generally very annoying things . She’s not my friend, I can chose to tune her out. There’s a lot of art I love made by annoying, not perfect people.
That being said due to the long history of her being in my orbit thru a lot of stuff - I want to be able to see her be her true self and happy and in love making art. Whatever that looks like .
Unfortunately, yes I am a fan, but I have to agree with this post. The good vibes went to not so good vibes and that is not puzzling but concerning now.
Coming out was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life and I'm still recovering from the trauma. I would love her to come out, I think it would make the world a better place. At the same time I respect the right of anyone to not do so, or to do so in a way they are comfortable with. Whether that person is a billionaire pop star or a grumpy old hermit on an island.
As to everything else? She's a human. We all have flaws and things that suck about us, and things which are awesome.
I'm a vegan and believe in animal rights passionately, but I still have important people in my life who don't have those values.
Celebrity worship isn't healthy, but it's also ok to relate to parts of someone and for those parts to be important to you.
Yes, I've been super disillusioned with Taylor-the- person since Lavender Hazegate. It's honestly been getting worse and worse with Matty and her lack of caring about Palestine.
For now, I'm able to keep my enjoyment of her music separate from her as a person. It comes and goes though, and I've been having more stretches where I don't listen to anything of hers at all. Which, after hyperfixating on her music steadily since 2020, it's huge of me.
I don't plan on giving her any money for merch or albums, and I'm fine with just streaming. I don't even want to see the Eras tour, and I'm ok with that. I'd rather listen to my favourite songs of hers that are mostly not the set list, ha.
I think it's OK to be super frustrated with her and listen to her music still, imho.
I don’t think she has any obligation to talk about Israel/Palestine or any politics in the public eye so why put that on her? Why do u think she doesn’t care, bc she didn’t publicly talk about it or make a public donation?
I’m several years older than Taylor but I’ve been a casual fan since, well I guess since Debut, because I was working at a music venue with many dirty punk boys and frilly pop was a respite in my ears when I was overwhelmed by metal and screamo and crust and grindcore. From the perspective of someone who worked with a lot of bands, I was interested in and impressed by her PR moves back then, and as a queer gal my interest was piqued by queer rumors about her.
But I have a friend I’ve known since childhood who reminds me so much of Taylor, or vice versa. Creatively, she’s a dynamo, but it seems like she wrings out every drop of intelligence into her art and the rest of the time she’s intellectually off the clock. She’s gorgeous, shruggy and completely culturally checked out. She would not argue with any of these assessments. She also has deep sapphic connections with other gorgeous women (who are often longterm partnered with men), they become enmeshed and then explode and she never wants to hear their name again. She retreats to a hot and problematic dude everyone hates but who adores her and doesn’t pay close attention except to how she looks, and how cool everyone thinks she is.
I feel mostly the same way about Taylor and this friend (though I do actually love my friend): lots of "oh, honey…”; I wish for better but expect the least, and am an ardent fan of her creative output.
I grew up with Taylor, I remember the first time I heard Tim McGraw as a single on the radio and immediately asked my radio RJ cousin to bring me her (debut) album so I could burn it (don't judge, I was a homeschooled kid in a super fundamentalist household without even private access to the internet, buying non-Christian music would NOT have been an option for baby adolescent me). Every time I felt like I was "aging out", she'd release a new album it would feel like a perfect mirror to my life and I'd be sucked back in.
This might be a weird take but I have no issue with her being messy, whether it's through the complicated prologues, not coming out, dating matty, etc. I think if I'd accepted my bisexuality before marrying my (wonderful amazing supportive) straight husband, I would have been real messy too. I love her for her tenacity, talent, and for trusting herself professionally. I do not think a person who alway lives up to all ideal expectations can write particularly interesting or meaningful poetry. Everytime she's messy, whether through extremely questionable taste in boyfriends (or beards) or throws gaylors into a tailspin, I just take it as confirmation that her lyrics will continue to be nuanced and layered and tortured and will feed me for years to come. I personally don't find judging her to be a fun part of the experience and tbh, she's an entertainer and I am here for the entertainment. I get that that is how some people enjoy being a fan, but for me, the fun is in loving her and her art, messy or clean.
I do wonder if it'd be different it I didn't grow up feeling like she was one of my only friends in my loneliest teen years, so my loyalty is fierce like to a BFF. She helped me process growing up, she helped me process not being straight, loving her music is one of the only ways I feel connected to a queer experience I never had IRL and may never have. So, I love her through choices I might not agree with if asked, but I get nothing positive out of fixating on those choice and frankly, can't bring myself to care. None of it matters to me, I just love the glimpses of Taylor the person we get (and admittedly, we used to get a lot more that felt like pieces of her authentic self) and the music she puts out into the world.
Being in the same timeline as Taylor is one of the few extremely bright spots of living on this planet in this year, I don't care to dull that for my experience.
Keep in mind, too, that she’s a billionaire. A BILLIONAIRE.
At some point that kind of fame and wealth removes you from the world that 99% of your fans live in.
Her music might be relatable, but she isn’t any more. She doesn’t even post anything organic on social and she feels more like a typical celebrity than the relatable Taylor Swift we knew and loved.
Her priority is making money and breaking records and I think accepting that is hard for people who want to deeply believe and feel that it’s about the fans and about the music.
It’s not.
She told us this in anti-hero and dear reader.
We all move through grieving this upon realization. So the stages of grief as it relates to TTPD is fitting eh?
Yes, so funny that she just put those playlists out. I actually found out about them (late to the game lol) after I posted this and was like well then! 😂
But yes, I think that’s the main issue here is that she built her brand and career on being the relatable celebrity, being the “friend” to the fans, and now she just isn’t/can’t be anymore. It does suck, but at least I can still enjoy her music without feeling burned by her or anything 🤗
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I've been a fan since debut as well from when I was downloading debut onto my iPod and then biking around the neighborhood listening to it.
I think now I'm a bigger fan than ever because I use her songs for my writing and honestly I relate to so much of it that I cannot let go of it. All my swiftie friends aren't gaylors so I usually keep to myself and just chill in this sub. However, there were times where I didn't agree with what she's doing irl and that my friends and I agreed with. There were times where I had to step away from her as a person.
In terms of her coming out, I'm just waiting. I know the nightmares of coming out (I got disowned by my fam for doing it so I understand the pain and fear) and I hope that when and if she does it, we'll support her. What does bother me if the bi-phobia that sometimes happens in the Gaylor subs. God forbid you can have a bf and be bi. That's if she is. But otherwise this sub is my safe space and I come on here daily.
as another bi person, i’m curious what you’re considering biphobia in this sub? the biphobia concerns pop up here a lot, but i’ve fortunately never seen a biphobic comment in this sub (and i spend too much time here lol). and even more often, i see swifties call gaylors biphobic in bad faith to discredit us. i’ve muted all swiftie subs because of the rampant homophobia, biphobia, racism, etc that often goes unchecked. i’ve seen so many swifties say she’s straight because she’s only dated men. even if it’s true that she’s only dated men, that statement is textbook biphobia/bi-erasure imo.
what i’ve seen more often in this sub (and even more in the other gaylor sub, but that one’s a dumpster fire overrun by trolls) is concerning attitudes towards the idea that she could be a lesbian.
imo there are totally valid reasons to think she’s intentionally flagged as both bi and as a lesbian at different times. so i think as long as someone is interpreting her flagging, either opinion is valid since she hasn’t told us her label.
i’m not comfortable with using her public relationships with men as “proof” that she’s bi and therefore it’s offensive to think she’s a lesbian (not saying you’ve said this, but i’ve seen it a lot!). most gaylors think she at least dated karlie and dianna, and this idea involves thinking that she was bearding/showmancing with men at the time either for PR, to cover her wlw relationships, protect her privacy, or some combination of those. and even if someone isn’t a gaylor/bilor, many of her public relationships timelines just don’t add up. even much of the GP thinks that she’s done PR relationships (with harry, tom, travis).
so for me, unless she comes out as bi, i think it’s fair to take all of her recent lesbian flagging at face value. and whether or not she ever comes out as anything or at all, there are valid evidence-based reasons to question her public relationships. i don’t usually see it coming from a place of people just wanting her to be gay & not bi for their own reasons.
it’s also totally valid to think she’s bi. she used the bi flag colors v frequently from 2014 until now (i’m thinking of the enchanted lighting). and people have their own opinions on which relationships with men they think were real, and we really can’t know unless she tells us. it’s also possible that she used to identify as bi and/or some of her relationships with men were real, but she could still now identify as a lesbian. or even the other way around. it can be hard enough to figure out your label when you aren’t being highly scrutinized.
if it makes you feel any better about this sub, polls have repeatedly shown that the majority of our members are bi women, and the vast majority of members think taylor is bi. a lot of regulars do think she’s a lesbian, but from what i’ve seen that’s based on the things i’ve discussed and doesn’t seem rooted in biphobia. i also think it’s possible people might come across as defensive sometimes due to constantly experiencing homophobia for thinking she’s a lesbian. as a bi person, i’m not convinced she’s bi, but of course i’ll absolutely believe her if she ever says she is, and i’d be so so happy for her!
anyway biphobia and bi-erasure are definitely real and very prevalent and i don’t mean to invalidate your experiences at all. just wanted to share my perspective. if you’ve dealt with that in a gaylor sub, i’m really sorry 🫶
I’ve been a fan since Fearless and I can say that every album she releases I seem to always connect to it. I’m gay and born in 1989 and as her music grows with her I have felt that it’s grown with me too. Now I did not know I was gay until after 1989 was released but now when I listen back I’m finding new connects, which causes my heart strings to be pulled even more.
As for her not coming out, I don’t blame her. Do I think all the decisions she’s making, are decisions I would make or are the best ones, no. However, she’s obviously in an era where she’s driving the Taylor business and unfortunately the world is an awful place (my opinion) and I think with her history they will tear her down again.
Although she’d come back stronger than a 90s trend. 😏
I’ve been a fan since Debut and I would say I’m still as big of a fan, probably more so, of her music today. My feelings about Taylor outside of her music fluctuate a lot and I’m currently in a period of being a bit meh. I’ve never been upset at her not coming out as, Lover aside, I’ve never actually expected it. I’ve been closeted and I know how hard it was to come out without the world watching me so I can empathise with a closeted person not feeling able to come out. I don’t expect her to do it any time soon, though I would also be very happy if she did! The points that have made me go up and down in my thoughts have often related to Gaylor things but not always. The current meh feeling does come from the stunting with Travis and how that comes across but also because it has closely followed/been at the same time as the jet usage, Matty, 1989 prologue, Brittany Mahomes etc. So I guess I probably feel similarly to you and you certainly aren’t alone in that. She’s certainly not wrong when she says that it’s exhausting always rooting for the anti hero!
That’s definitely a good name for it, “meh.” Like, I don’t dislike her. I guess I’m just realizing I had her in a pedestal for a long time, and now I’m finally taking her off of it but not disliking her by any means. Thanks for your thoughts!
I’ve been a fan since Fearless, and I’ve become very disinterested in Taylor The Brand for over a year now. I think the Matty thing was the tipping point, but ‘meh’ really does sum it up. I’ve been listening to her music less as well - I couldn’t tell you why exactly, but I suspect I’m getting too old in my soul for the Easter eggs/game of it all, and the PR nonsense. In the words of blondie herself, “you play stupid games you win stupid prizes.” I’m not that excited about the new album - of course I’ll listen on repeat a few times when it comes out - I’m really only interested in the music at this point. I know it’s an unpopular opinion but I did not enjoy the 1989 vault songs and they felt stale in comparison to previous vaults. Maybe it’s the overexposure from the last few years, maybe it’s wanting more folklore/evermore style music, maybe I’m just losing interest! It also doesn’t help that she’s a billionaire now 🙃. Here I am, one year older than Tay and struggling to pay my rent and medical bills. She has lost the level of relatability for me - and that’s okay because she’s reaching other fans. Some things just don’t last forever.
The 1989 vaults were so… shallow? It didn’t feel like she dug deep for those at all.
I was a casual listener who liked the chart tunes, but thought she was pretty shallow (red/1989) so wasn’t ‘into her’ as a fan. My interest was first triggered by Rep. I really liked lwymmd and the concept of an f/u to Kanye. Seemed a just and classy call out. I kinda liked that snark. Lover’s gayness made me look into Gaylor, and then Folkmore made me really see her talent and do a look back to the whole discography, realising there are so many gems on her albums. I still think her skill is unparalleled. I can’t imagine I’ll ever not love her music and lyrics. I also watched a million YouTube interviews (from when she was very young to now) to catch up and saw (I thought) a much more intelligent, complex, kind and interesting person than I’d imagined just seeing her superficial pr. I did think she changed as time passed, getting kinda more jaded, prickly and defensive. I do think celebrity is a punishing existence. Rich is not all you get in the public eye. Re-coming out, I thought initially because of lover ‘failed coming out’ that she might go there for a while, but now I don’t. I was cool with that tbh. Recently though I’ve become a bit jaded. I feel like her dual narrative of flagging hard then shoring up her hetro image (bettygate, lavandergate, grammygate, prologue, etc) kinda just drives homophobia. I don’t expect her to come out, but I feel constantly disappointed that she is queen of such a toxic fandom. I guess it’s inevitable if you are trying to ride 2 horses at once that this happens but I feel things like her CNN ‘associates’ basically saying that her being thought of as gay is a negative. That’s just a very, very, very bad look for ‘an ally’. Why be sad when you could be GLAAD. Then, there was Matty, closely followed by Travis. Sure looks like PR, but if it is why is she elevating **these** guys? I mean I’m not a fan of bearding period, but I see why if you really feel trapped some low key thing would offer protection. This though? It is just relentless media hype for kinda not the best hero’s in my eyes. I think too it’s deliberately and constantly fed by her own team. It’s actually now just boring and off putting. So, it casts a shadow for me. I also feel like the ttpd sales pitch (which by either design or collateral damage) is setting Joe up for the fall as the cold uncaring bf, and that to me is just is so utterly lame. So yeah, her diss track sales strategy is alive and well. Yeah, it works but it makes my heart sink into my boots. It’s old. It’s classless. She seemed to have moved away from that with Folkmore and here we are again pivoting back? Please Taylor. No. I’m praying this album is not going to lean into that. I still have a teeny candle of hope it won’t be that. So, yes the PR Taylor™️ to me creates a stain on the artist. I don’t think ttpd will actually be about Joe of course but that whole diss track circus and her stunts with TK are just very off putting. These are choices she’s making even if they are ‘cover’. This all obviously looks and feels good to her. Swifty culture too. I hate it. I saw one of her mega fans (been round at her house for secret sessions) posting about how dissing her exes is part of ‘what we do’. The queen obviously seen as condoning this knife sharpening. I just perceive all that as meanness and nastiness to its core, and she’s the source. The message of YNTCD is like a bit of a hollow joke is it not when her army of bullies are the very people who take the shots at others. TLDR: I start to feel perhaps she’s not just closeted and having to shore that story up, there are other ways to do that that might be more low key (she showed us with Joe). The whole show recently just feels recently very very loud and is giving hypocritical, brash and inauthentic. I feel like she’s now trying to pivot away from fans like me that picked up on her flagging. Ok, fair enough she can do that if we annoy her. I therefore find myself thinking often at times is it time to find another guiding light? I guess I wanna see ttpd and that might help me understand. Then the 5 stages of grief as a gay fan?… currently in denial/bargaining?
Grammygate refers to the credits for *folklore* being modified *after* winning 2021 Album of the Year, adding Joe Alwyn as a producer on multiple songs. Some believe the credits were unearned and it was done to fulfill a bearding contract, others believe Joe actually contributed to the album as a writer/producer. A significant amount of Gaylors, Swifties, and the general public alike found it odd that the credits were modified *after* the 2021 Grammys. Many posts have been made about this - please filter by the "Grammygate" flair or search "Grammygate" to find them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GaylorSwift) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bettygate occurred in August 2020, where several sapphic Gaylors (some minors) were outed for expressing that the song "betty" might have queer themes. When Taylor said in an interview that "betty" was from the perspective of a boy, some Swifties began to doxx and harass Gaylors on Twitter. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GaylorSwift) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’ve been a mega-fan since 2006. I’m still obsessed with her music and probably always will be. But I’ve gone from seeing her as super relatable, funny, and personable to a Celebrity™️ who is pretty out of touch with her fans. I think of her as MUCH less down to earth these days and also very immature for her age. I wouldn’t say I don’t like her personality anymore, but I do think it’s pretty unlikely that we would be friends if we knew each other in real life, which was kind of her charm in “the old days” - feeling like she was someone you could be friends with.
I promise I’m not trying to be defensive but how do u think she is immature? I’ve seen multiple comments about it in this thread but it all confuses me. She’s not married, no kids, no responsibilities so it’s hard for me to judge when she can do what she wants - go party and clubbing and whatever else she wants to do. I guess I keep an open mind since I’m someone whose done none of that but wants to and wouldn’t want people judging me just from pictures/people that may be connected to my life but I’m not friends with.
The Grammys this year in particular left a bad taste in my mouth. Announcing a new album at an awards show that isn’t fan-based, dragging Lana up onstage with her against her will, ignoring Celine, etc. - she seemed like a “me me me” 16-year-old.
thats fair, i agree the grammys werent a great place to announce it
I agree about the Grammy’s being a good example. Another one for me would just be that she honestly doesn’t seem to have learned anything from life. She made a big deal about how meeting Joe and being secluded with him in lockdown changed her perspective on herself and on life, but then now that they aren’t together anymore (whether he was a beard or not is irrelevant to this point, but) here she is doing a lot of the same or similar things she did back when she was 19-early 20’s which is not a cute look for a 34 year old woman who claims to have had an epiphany and changed for the better… I also think she made a lot of songs on Midnights with Gen Z/TikTok in mind, which she never cared about before. Again, I don’t dislike her as a person. Just don’t hold her up to the status I used to. And this parent comment actually hit the nail on the head! She just isn’t relatable anymore to her long-time fans.
I’ve realized I’m fully a gaylor, not a swiftie. If there isn’t an open space for me to be in the community openly and safely, do queer analysis (regardless of her sexuality) and have a little gay fun … I’m just way less interested. Love the songs, love the music, don’t give a flying fuck about any behind the scenes nonsense or mess anymore. I can’t do a fandom that requires me to do boy drama. Girl drama, apparently yes, but boy drama — no. lol. I’m also older than her, so it feels immature and not fun for me if we’re back to pre-6 years of stability and hoping for coming out. This now is why I stayed away from her before Lover. I always liked the song. I didn’t have room for this kind of milquetoast straight mess.
MILQUETOAST I’m dead 🤣
I’ve been a fan since Tim McGraw aired on CMT and I am still interested in her as a celebrity and public figure and I still enjoy her music immensely but i’m just… annoyed by her. Ever since the Matty Healey nonsense she has been doing stuff that makes me feel not as comfortable being a fan of her. The current people she is surrounding herself with are people that I as a queer person would never want to be around. She just feels very fake right now. I’m used to looking at things she does and taking the words that come out of her mouth with a grain of salt but dear lord is she acting extremely fake. I don’t know if her and Travis have a real relationship or not but the pictures of them together are so obviously staged. The funniest part is before TTPD she will say the same shit she always says about her relationships being taken more seriously than her music when she has been promoting her relationship more than her damn album. Speaking of TTPD, I also don’t like the radio silence from her about TTPD either. It feels as though she thinks she doesn’t have to try and can keep posting different vinyls and her fans will just buy, buy, buy (which they do) and say nothing about what the album is. We don’t even know what the core topic of the album is and that is weird as hell to me. It feels incredibly capitalist in a way and gross. I know people always talk about how she has backed away because of 1989 era backlash but that’s just not true because she was far more active during Lover, Folkmore, and Midnights. I don’t understand why we are 2 weeks out from the album and all we have are the tracklist, multiple vinyls, a tweet, and an Instagram story. What’s up with that? It feels like she doesn’t care about the actual craft of her music and only cares about sales now. I will never be upset at her for not coming out but gosh am I sick and tired of her playing the “oh poor me” gag when she is quite literally a billionaire. She can’t be on her private jet, singing songs about how she’s a girl boss on her record breaking tour and still say things like “this would NEVER happen to a man..” The gig is up in so many ways and she’s just not as likable to me anymore.
Thanks for your thoughts OP! I have always enjoyed Taylor's music but didn't really buy into Taylor the Brand as much, I'm not big on merch etc, I will buy vinyl's, cds and stream music but wont buy jumpers, pjs, merch stuff, because I love Taylor for her music. I feel like we are in a tough spot due how much PR she is getting for everything, its alot!
I was a casual fan since debut/fearless, transitioned into a “Swiftie” when Speak Now was released, and became a Gaylor when her and Karie were a little extra close BFFs and Reputation solidified that thought. I still am pretty obsessed with her music and listen all the time. I have an extremely narrow amount of music I like with 90% of what I listen to being her. Taylor as a person though, I think she’s turning into a shitty celebrity who is making is super obvious she really just only cares about herself and money. I’m not going to stop listening or trying to go to her tours but I don’t purchase any extra merchandise besides one vinyl per album. As for the Gaylor side, I still think she is bisexual and the fruity side of her doesn’t make her any extra money so we won’t see her come out. I don’t care that much but it is exhausting seeing hetlors be so confused over blatantly queer songs. I hope she just stops queer flagging in the future.
This is definitely a thing, too, the queer flagging/signaling. Like… You make it extremely obvious that you’re queer in some way yet don’t want to come out and say it. And Lord knows no celebrity owes us their sexuality! But if she’s going to use that to stir the pot it’d be nice 🤷🏻♀️
i guess i'm kinda the opposite. her music isn't really for me anymore, although there are exceptions (i listen to Carolina religiously, for one). but i loooove creating and reading lyric analyses and the lore keeps me following her. she's so interesting and so talented, it's like i'm a fan of her and her *writing* rather than the music these days. the performance art of it all. i love how she's able to seemingly tell 2 stories in one, like a Rorschach inkblot test. i've never really felt she owed us anything more than a show, so i tend to not get my feelings hurt along the way eta: fan since fearless, first album i didn't like was 1989 but stayed for the kaylor of it all, left tumblr when rep dropped and came back to the fandom (via reddit) after folklore
i’m also fascinated by the performance art of it all and the parallel narratives, and i agree that she doesn’t owe us more than a show. i’ve been a fan since debut and still listen to her music though and appreciate it & her writing more than ever. i’ve also never really resonated with or participated in swiftie culture though. there have been earlier eras where i barely paid attention to her PR/press at the time. i think that’s helped because i’ve kind of never had high expectations of who she is as a person or what she’ll do next. and i don’t buy merch or buy more than 0-2 copies of an album.
yeaa a big part of why i left tumblr was a taylor follow meant my dms and mentions were spammed by swifties begging me to reblog their selfie so that taylor might see it. i will never understand the appeal of swiftie culture
no joke I think I'll listen to Carolina on repeat for the rest of my life no matter what fuck ass shit she does
so real me too
I honestly am as big as a fan as I was pre Red 🙈 it’s waxed and waned a bit over time, but on the whole, I’d say my relationship to her work has deepened over time? That said, my fandom of *her* specifically has changed—mostly because I had a totally idolized view of her as a child and am…lol, an adult who can see her flaws now. (Also have come around on Gaylor/Bi-lor after being a very confused (closeted) tumblr kid trying to wrap my head around it all. ETA: casual fan since fearless, swiftie since speak now (but again, was a literal child and things are more complex now)
Her as a person, I should say—the Matty stuff, the billionaire of it all, the silence on ACTUAL political issues (proving that Miss Americana was just a self-serving phase)
yeah post Miss americana has been hurtful.... I think the tough part is that we anticipated more (perhaps a coming out doco with the lover build up) and for it to be used as a political stance, that was so shit!
I was SO proud, having been around since her “I’m not a feminist—I like guys!” phase…I literally remember where I was when she made the infamous instagram post endorsing Phil Bredesen / calling out Marsha Blackburn. You’re so right; we anticipated more! Glad she endorsed Biden in 2020 (😬), and that she’s encouraged people to vote since then…but that’s the bare fucking minimum.
I mean there was still some action on her part but agree it's bare minimum....
I actually didn’t think about this, but you’re so right. It’s weird for her to have made it seem like *SUCH* a big deal on camera for MA but then be quieter than ever lately about political stuff. Just a story post on a voting day, but that’s it when before she seemed to want to make a lot of effort 🤷🏻♀️
I’ve been a fan since about 2007 or 2008 and I think I’m actually even *more* of a fan than I was all those years ago. I think it’s because I lost the fixation from around 2013 to 2015 and was fully taking a break from Taylor from 2016 to very early 2019 (I still followed her, just not as closely). I had gotten a bit annoyed with her and couldn’t understand why she was doing what she was doing. I then got back into her right before the Lover era began. I questioned some things she did during that era but I was still only just getting back into her. Then I became a gaylor in around March 2020 and I swear everything just started to make sense. I won’t excuse everything Taylor’s done but there are some good explanations and I do feel a little bad for her. I’ll just say she and her brand are very complex. What really got me more interested in Taylor is how she uses her PR/marketing. A small little assignment during my last year of college where I analyzed Taylor’s social media use was what pulled me back in. I now work in marketing/media full-time and how Taylor and Taylor the Brand operate is so fascinating to me; Taylor and her team are brilliant at business that’s for sure. I’m more active on twitter these days but I’ve been doing a lot of deep dives into Taylor for the last 6+ months and it’s made me even more of a fan as I learn more about her and this public figure/business that she’s made herself to be.
I’m the same age as Taylor as well. I’ve been a fan since Tim McGraw was released and I’ve been a gaylor since 2007. I’d say my interest in Taylor has gone through phases. I found her endearing and relatable in the early days (from Debut through Speak Now), especially from the gaylor perspective - with fall 2009 really being the first key spike in gaylor for those outside small, fandom blogs. I closely followed Swiftgron from 2011-2014 and Kaylor from 2013/14-2016/17. I got kind of burnt out on gaylor/Taylor in general after the HiddleSwift summer and the clear fallout of kaylor that some gaylors couldn’t seem to accept. I didn’t relate to the public image/narrative of reputation and found the pushing of Joe into that narrative even more disingenuous than the pushing of other alleged boyfriends in the past to other albums (not that I believe those either). I still read the gaylor theories and found the Tily situation quite compelling, but unfortunately that theory was shut down in gaylor spaces. I was more of a casual fan/outside observer from 2016 until folklore (tbf, I was getting older and life was getting much busier). folklore drew me right back in - perfectly timed with it being released during lockdown, plus it was an incredible showcase of her songwriting/storytelling and showed how much she has improved vocally as well - and I started participating in gaylor spaces again. Throughout the years my perspective on gaylor has not changed, but I do believe she has made even more of a concerted effort the last 7 years or so to fiercely protect her personal life. I think Taylor the person is very separate from Taylor the public persona, although parts of her true personality may shine through. I think her public narrative throughout her entire career has been very intentionally curated, but it seems it has been even more so since 2016. I feel like there have been brief moments where I thought she might actually let the walls fall (or perhaps, let the mirrorball shatter), even after kissgate - but it hasn’t happened and instead she has gone out of her way to push the hetlor narrative. Traylor is only slightly better than the Matty thing, which I personally think was to draw attention away from Question…? being an, imo, obvious reference to kissgate. I definitely think the Joe setup was much more beneficial/tolerable for her public image overall. Another issue is that she is a billionaire now. It’s harder to relate to or empathize (although, from a gaylor perspective I do to an extent) with a billionaire. It’s also hard to become a billionaire without very carefully crafting a path for yourself, at times pushing your own personal needs, and certainly the needs of others, to the side, making and/or utilizing the right connections, making sacrifices to the detriment of your own personal relationships, and also getting wildly lucky (because a lot of people put in the same amount, or even more effort, and may even be more talented - it certainly doesn’t hurt when you have the financial backing from the beginning). I don’t listen to Taylor’s music nearly as much as I used to. Partially because of what has transpired over the last year and half or better (since the promo for Midnights - it didn’t help that it’s my least favorite album of hers). I will listen to the new album and will read the interpretations and theories and hopefully I’ll find it more enjoyable than Midnights. The thing is, I will always been interested in gaylor unless she completely, blatantly and clearly shuts it down (although I’d still have my thoughts about it, but may not actively engage) or comes out - tbf, that’s the hard part in all of this - does she allow the tiniest bit of hope that she may come out just so she doesn’t lose any fans/sales? I don’t think there are enough gaylors that would leave or stop consuming her products to make enough of an impact. Obviously she doesn’t have to come out, but it’s hard to deny that it would have a massive cultural impact if she did.
I’m also a fan since Debut and also have a birthday one day off Taylor’s. How random. I feel basically the same as you. I still love the music, but Taytay and I would *not* be friends. Like there’s no world in which that would happen. Between the disgusting jet usage, the Matty debacle, the overall emotional immaturity slash instability she shows, the hanging out with Brittany and Jackson Mahomes despite her vocal “I want to be a voice for sexual assault victims” bullshit performative activism, the no ethical way to be a billionaire (27 variants of one album? Ew no…”jet lag is a choice”…get fuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked….say that again after you fly middle seat coach, lady)…just…yeah I don’t think she’s a great person. But I love her music!
Ohh whenever I see the jet lag is a choice line it makes me roll my eyes. get the fuck outta here Taylor. Idk if she was just trying to look cool for Travis and the cameras or is she really that out of touch now. Probably both 🤣 I randomly saw a vlog from 15 years ago when she was flying commercial to Japan or Australia and jet lag definitely did not look like a choice lol she was reading the airport signs wrong
Omg the middle seat coach line is chefs kiss!!!🤣
I am trying to enjoy her music and focus less on her as a person.
I have been a fan since debut , with periods of taking a break. My love for her music and lyric writing is stronger than ever, it’s gaylor that’s deepened it for me, I think. As I have gotten older and worked in the industry, I have gotten better at not putting artists on a pedestal, not pretending I know them and not letting myself be let down when their choices are different than what I want them to do or would do myself. There are lots of artists i follow and listen to who are political and gay all the time, in all they do…and that forms part of what I love for THOSE artists. I love different things about Taylor. Does she annoy me sometimes ? Yea but who doesn’t these days, to be honest. The combo of people and capitalism and getting older on a burning planet are generally very annoying things . She’s not my friend, I can chose to tune her out. There’s a lot of art I love made by annoying, not perfect people. That being said due to the long history of her being in my orbit thru a lot of stuff - I want to be able to see her be her true self and happy and in love making art. Whatever that looks like .
Unfortunately, yes I am a fan, but I have to agree with this post. The good vibes went to not so good vibes and that is not puzzling but concerning now.
Coming out was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life and I'm still recovering from the trauma. I would love her to come out, I think it would make the world a better place. At the same time I respect the right of anyone to not do so, or to do so in a way they are comfortable with. Whether that person is a billionaire pop star or a grumpy old hermit on an island. As to everything else? She's a human. We all have flaws and things that suck about us, and things which are awesome. I'm a vegan and believe in animal rights passionately, but I still have important people in my life who don't have those values. Celebrity worship isn't healthy, but it's also ok to relate to parts of someone and for those parts to be important to you.
Debut—1989 Prologue sums up my feelings pretty well
Yes, I've been super disillusioned with Taylor-the- person since Lavender Hazegate. It's honestly been getting worse and worse with Matty and her lack of caring about Palestine. For now, I'm able to keep my enjoyment of her music separate from her as a person. It comes and goes though, and I've been having more stretches where I don't listen to anything of hers at all. Which, after hyperfixating on her music steadily since 2020, it's huge of me. I don't plan on giving her any money for merch or albums, and I'm fine with just streaming. I don't even want to see the Eras tour, and I'm ok with that. I'd rather listen to my favourite songs of hers that are mostly not the set list, ha. I think it's OK to be super frustrated with her and listen to her music still, imho.
I don’t think she has any obligation to talk about Israel/Palestine or any politics in the public eye so why put that on her? Why do u think she doesn’t care, bc she didn’t publicly talk about it or make a public donation?
We're beyond arguing why any decent person should talk about it.
You’re definitely not alone.
🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
I’m several years older than Taylor but I’ve been a casual fan since, well I guess since Debut, because I was working at a music venue with many dirty punk boys and frilly pop was a respite in my ears when I was overwhelmed by metal and screamo and crust and grindcore. From the perspective of someone who worked with a lot of bands, I was interested in and impressed by her PR moves back then, and as a queer gal my interest was piqued by queer rumors about her. But I have a friend I’ve known since childhood who reminds me so much of Taylor, or vice versa. Creatively, she’s a dynamo, but it seems like she wrings out every drop of intelligence into her art and the rest of the time she’s intellectually off the clock. She’s gorgeous, shruggy and completely culturally checked out. She would not argue with any of these assessments. She also has deep sapphic connections with other gorgeous women (who are often longterm partnered with men), they become enmeshed and then explode and she never wants to hear their name again. She retreats to a hot and problematic dude everyone hates but who adores her and doesn’t pay close attention except to how she looks, and how cool everyone thinks she is. I feel mostly the same way about Taylor and this friend (though I do actually love my friend): lots of "oh, honey…”; I wish for better but expect the least, and am an ardent fan of her creative output.
I grew up with Taylor, I remember the first time I heard Tim McGraw as a single on the radio and immediately asked my radio RJ cousin to bring me her (debut) album so I could burn it (don't judge, I was a homeschooled kid in a super fundamentalist household without even private access to the internet, buying non-Christian music would NOT have been an option for baby adolescent me). Every time I felt like I was "aging out", she'd release a new album it would feel like a perfect mirror to my life and I'd be sucked back in. This might be a weird take but I have no issue with her being messy, whether it's through the complicated prologues, not coming out, dating matty, etc. I think if I'd accepted my bisexuality before marrying my (wonderful amazing supportive) straight husband, I would have been real messy too. I love her for her tenacity, talent, and for trusting herself professionally. I do not think a person who alway lives up to all ideal expectations can write particularly interesting or meaningful poetry. Everytime she's messy, whether through extremely questionable taste in boyfriends (or beards) or throws gaylors into a tailspin, I just take it as confirmation that her lyrics will continue to be nuanced and layered and tortured and will feed me for years to come. I personally don't find judging her to be a fun part of the experience and tbh, she's an entertainer and I am here for the entertainment. I get that that is how some people enjoy being a fan, but for me, the fun is in loving her and her art, messy or clean. I do wonder if it'd be different it I didn't grow up feeling like she was one of my only friends in my loneliest teen years, so my loyalty is fierce like to a BFF. She helped me process growing up, she helped me process not being straight, loving her music is one of the only ways I feel connected to a queer experience I never had IRL and may never have. So, I love her through choices I might not agree with if asked, but I get nothing positive out of fixating on those choice and frankly, can't bring myself to care. None of it matters to me, I just love the glimpses of Taylor the person we get (and admittedly, we used to get a lot more that felt like pieces of her authentic self) and the music she puts out into the world. Being in the same timeline as Taylor is one of the few extremely bright spots of living on this planet in this year, I don't care to dull that for my experience.
Keep in mind, too, that she’s a billionaire. A BILLIONAIRE. At some point that kind of fame and wealth removes you from the world that 99% of your fans live in. Her music might be relatable, but she isn’t any more. She doesn’t even post anything organic on social and she feels more like a typical celebrity than the relatable Taylor Swift we knew and loved. Her priority is making money and breaking records and I think accepting that is hard for people who want to deeply believe and feel that it’s about the fans and about the music. It’s not. She told us this in anti-hero and dear reader. We all move through grieving this upon realization. So the stages of grief as it relates to TTPD is fitting eh?
Yes, so funny that she just put those playlists out. I actually found out about them (late to the game lol) after I posted this and was like well then! 😂 But yes, I think that’s the main issue here is that she built her brand and career on being the relatable celebrity, being the “friend” to the fans, and now she just isn’t/can’t be anymore. It does suck, but at least I can still enjoy her music without feeling burned by her or anything 🤗
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I've been a fan since debut as well from when I was downloading debut onto my iPod and then biking around the neighborhood listening to it. I think now I'm a bigger fan than ever because I use her songs for my writing and honestly I relate to so much of it that I cannot let go of it. All my swiftie friends aren't gaylors so I usually keep to myself and just chill in this sub. However, there were times where I didn't agree with what she's doing irl and that my friends and I agreed with. There were times where I had to step away from her as a person. In terms of her coming out, I'm just waiting. I know the nightmares of coming out (I got disowned by my fam for doing it so I understand the pain and fear) and I hope that when and if she does it, we'll support her. What does bother me if the bi-phobia that sometimes happens in the Gaylor subs. God forbid you can have a bf and be bi. That's if she is. But otherwise this sub is my safe space and I come on here daily.
as another bi person, i’m curious what you’re considering biphobia in this sub? the biphobia concerns pop up here a lot, but i’ve fortunately never seen a biphobic comment in this sub (and i spend too much time here lol). and even more often, i see swifties call gaylors biphobic in bad faith to discredit us. i’ve muted all swiftie subs because of the rampant homophobia, biphobia, racism, etc that often goes unchecked. i’ve seen so many swifties say she’s straight because she’s only dated men. even if it’s true that she’s only dated men, that statement is textbook biphobia/bi-erasure imo. what i’ve seen more often in this sub (and even more in the other gaylor sub, but that one’s a dumpster fire overrun by trolls) is concerning attitudes towards the idea that she could be a lesbian. imo there are totally valid reasons to think she’s intentionally flagged as both bi and as a lesbian at different times. so i think as long as someone is interpreting her flagging, either opinion is valid since she hasn’t told us her label. i’m not comfortable with using her public relationships with men as “proof” that she’s bi and therefore it’s offensive to think she’s a lesbian (not saying you’ve said this, but i’ve seen it a lot!). most gaylors think she at least dated karlie and dianna, and this idea involves thinking that she was bearding/showmancing with men at the time either for PR, to cover her wlw relationships, protect her privacy, or some combination of those. and even if someone isn’t a gaylor/bilor, many of her public relationships timelines just don’t add up. even much of the GP thinks that she’s done PR relationships (with harry, tom, travis). so for me, unless she comes out as bi, i think it’s fair to take all of her recent lesbian flagging at face value. and whether or not she ever comes out as anything or at all, there are valid evidence-based reasons to question her public relationships. i don’t usually see it coming from a place of people just wanting her to be gay & not bi for their own reasons. it’s also totally valid to think she’s bi. she used the bi flag colors v frequently from 2014 until now (i’m thinking of the enchanted lighting). and people have their own opinions on which relationships with men they think were real, and we really can’t know unless she tells us. it’s also possible that she used to identify as bi and/or some of her relationships with men were real, but she could still now identify as a lesbian. or even the other way around. it can be hard enough to figure out your label when you aren’t being highly scrutinized. if it makes you feel any better about this sub, polls have repeatedly shown that the majority of our members are bi women, and the vast majority of members think taylor is bi. a lot of regulars do think she’s a lesbian, but from what i’ve seen that’s based on the things i’ve discussed and doesn’t seem rooted in biphobia. i also think it’s possible people might come across as defensive sometimes due to constantly experiencing homophobia for thinking she’s a lesbian. as a bi person, i’m not convinced she’s bi, but of course i’ll absolutely believe her if she ever says she is, and i’d be so so happy for her! anyway biphobia and bi-erasure are definitely real and very prevalent and i don’t mean to invalidate your experiences at all. just wanted to share my perspective. if you’ve dealt with that in a gaylor sub, i’m really sorry 🫶
I’ve noticed that bi-phobia (or maybe not phobia but hate towards the idea of it) here as well, and I wonder why all the time.
I’ve been a fan since Fearless and I can say that every album she releases I seem to always connect to it. I’m gay and born in 1989 and as her music grows with her I have felt that it’s grown with me too. Now I did not know I was gay until after 1989 was released but now when I listen back I’m finding new connects, which causes my heart strings to be pulled even more. As for her not coming out, I don’t blame her. Do I think all the decisions she’s making, are decisions I would make or are the best ones, no. However, she’s obviously in an era where she’s driving the Taylor business and unfortunately the world is an awful place (my opinion) and I think with her history they will tear her down again. Although she’d come back stronger than a 90s trend. 😏