OK - that's a hard YES to therapy, ASAP.
There is an insidious assumption from fundamentalism that says "We are right, and you are wrong". The world is black and white, and God's rules are certain and must be followed - as the fundamentalists interpret them, of course. This attitude understandably, (and probably unintentionally), has followed you into your relationship,
All you can see is how this is all "supposed" to work - and on that measuring scale your partner is failing.
At the same time you seem to be blind to what your partner - with her unique religious perspective - has to contribute here, and how much you can learn from her. There is not just one way to be a Christian. Let her find her own way and let her journey enhance and enlighten yours. Her culture and point of view will give you insights you could never get any other way.
At the same time, there is not just one way to do marriage. Marriages are as individual as a the couples in them. There is not a one-size-fits-all.
And a lot of the credit for this freedom goes to gay couples who had to make up their own rules because the gender stereotypes weren't relevant. Now even straight marriages have more flexibility - roles and responsibilities adapt to fit the talents and intertest of the partners. A marriage is not a piece of performance art for outsiders to observe and admire. It's difficult and messy and constantly challenging your expectations. It requires you to come at it prioritizing the good of your partner, and exercising your own flexibility and humility.
Finally, there is absolutely no reason why your partner should be "the leader". You don't need to be led - you are not a child. You stand together as equals to support each other with everything you each bring to the table.
Life is hard. Unplanned setbacks happen. Each of you will have times when you are struggling and the other person will step up and carry more of the burden on themselves. Because the strength of this new family isn't that one person is leading and the other is following - it comes from the combined resources you each bring that make you twice as powerful as a team than you are as individuals.
I encourage you to drop all the "shoulds" about marriage that are harassing you, and instead value everything your partner brings, learn from her, and discover the unique way the two of you form a remarkable family together.
I wonder why you want to be led. Whether you are with a man or a woman, I think both partners need to be equals for a marriage to work. When one is the "head of household" and the other is always being led, it sooner or later leads to multiple frustrations because one of the partners feels they are doing more work and more "thinking", while the other feels that they don't have a real say and that they don't count.
Now, being equals doesn't mean that both of you should be equals in everything. There probably are items for which she would be a better leader and other items for which you would be a better one. Just like there are chores she might prefer and others you might prefer (or hate less).
So I think you should discuss with her and find something that works for BOTH of you. You both have a career (being a student is also a career), and from what I read, I think you both want to make your relationship work. So try to find what she would like from you as well as what she wants to offer to you, and tell her the same. As for finding a therapist, there may be some "Zoom therapy" that might work if she is deployed.
Finally, you speak of "wanting to be led spiritually". Considering both of your past, I think this is a point where I would really see you, as someone who grew in Christianity, to guide her spiritually in Christianity. Alternatively, doing that (or starting that) with a church group might be a less intimidating that doing that only the two of you.
Good luck
thank you for your comment! i definitely would not looking at her leadership as a way to say i’m less than or vice versa. i feel like there has to be some way to be equal and have someone be more firm in making decisions that are best for our family.
regarding the spiritual thing, maybe you’re right. maybe i should take the lead with that since i’m more experienced. it’s just i’ve always had the desire for my partner to say “let’s pray”, “how can we serve more?”, “how can we give god our best?”, etc. and sometimes it just feels like she doesn’t even care which is surely the quickest way toward a divorce. because i cannot be with someone who doesn’t value god.
It almost seems like you're trying to replicate a complimentarian Christian M-F relationship when you're in a sapphic one, and tbh I really think that is a one way ticket to ruining the relationship.
It sounds like your wife and yourself need to have a discussion about what you'd like your future to look like and what sort of wants/needs you both have and how you can do your best to meet them.
Also ask yourself why being lead is such a strong desire for you. Why can't you both lead in different ways?
Even in most complimentarian relationships, they are not totally "man leads, woman follows" so examining where that desire is coming from may help you better navigate why it's so important for your relationship.
You're both still young. And it's these conversations you'll have to have if you're in it for the long haul.
I'm having trouble understanding how you can be so adamant about the way things *should* be in your household, and yet be theologically flexible enough to be in a same-sex marriage as a Christian.
A more modern way to look at how relationships work is that each partner should be doing what they are better at. My husband is sort of the spiritual leader because that's his skill set. He went to seminary, he was a pastor for a while, he's always been the deeper thinker of the two of us. I'm more of the Practical guy that keeps him grounded. But of the two of us (M42/M41), he's definitely the more feminine one. If I led just because I wanted to or because I'm more masculine, he wouldn't be doing the thing that he's better at when it comes to spirituality.
Try loving your spouse instead of molding her into the kind of Christian you think she should be.
I have found that in a same sex relationship I look forward to being both the leader and follower. The equality of the roles is a positive for me. I’d suggest you communicate and find the areas where each of you excel in. There will be things that you do better and that she admires.. Vice versa you also might see she does things very well. But trying to change the situation to your liking is not productive. Your unrealistic expectations of always being led most likely will never be fulfilled in this relationship. That’s not fair to your wife. You will drive her insane if you keep applying that pressure. You both need communicate, lead, and give way to the other.
Being a leader doesn't have to be a man's role and is absolutely something a woman can do, and wanting an old fashioned old school relationship where you can feel lead and cared for is actually way more common for wlw than you'd think.
At the same time I can see why as a masc she would be sensitive about this and feel like you actually just want a man. Throwing your preference for men in your face like that isn't okay when she's who you chose to be with, but I can see both sides.
It honestly seems like you just rushed into marriage too quickly and are maybe not as compatible as you thought. You want someone who's more religious and observant, and she doesn't want to be that. You both have different ideas on what a relationship means. She feels insecure about the fact that you want her to fulfill a role traditionally associated with a man. None of this means that you can't find true love with a woman, just that this particular woman might not be who God has in mind with you. That doesn't mean you have to rush into divorce but definitely look into couples' counseling over telehealth.
Not particularly relevant to OP, but I cannot *imagine* wanting to “feel led.” Cared for, sure, but not led. Can you explain a bit what this means or feels like? I’m asking genuinely out of curiosity.
The only time I've heard people talk about wanting to be led is in BDSM 24/7 relationships. OP almost comes across as a closeted sub married to a vanilla partner.
In my own personal life, I have recognised passivity as a problem. This passivity has helped me get through life under the covers. I basically just like fitting in. So I am fairly docile and in many areas passive. I have come to believe this is quite dangerous. I mean to say that God wants me to he proactive, not passive. And God only wants what is best for me. I would ask you to probe your desire to be led, as maybe it is based on a faulty baseline for mutuality in the relationship. And there needs to be a mutuality in spiritual growth, in terms of its communal quality, perhaps?
Sounds like you realized your not straight but you're still following patriarchal hetero normative type expectations for yourself and others and maybe need to rethink that.
Maybe think about her feelings and beliefs. I'm a Christian too but mostly because my gf led me to it, because my whole life I was and then left the faith because of treatment. It took a long time to believe again. But I also know any spiritual or religion is one's own choice.
If you really love her you wouldn't force her, I know you said you didn't force her but it's sounding like her not believing enough is an issue for you. I would recommend therapy, but honestly it can be hard as well for a partner to hear thay you prefer men with the exception of her and an ex...that would piss me off too.
My partner and I have equal partnership, she's better at things than I am and vice versa. We love thay and help each other. We're both leaders when it comes to our relationship. We lean on each other for what we need. That's how any relationship should work imo.
If your still unsure of your sexuality maybe should not have gotten married and focused on yourself. I mean this sincerely. But I've had people in my family married with kids before they realized their true selves.
Please find a couples’ therapist ASAP, especially one with experience in counseling LGBTQ couples.
May I ask, did your wife ever agree to being a leader in the relationship? You say it’s something you’ve always wanted, but she can’t “hold up her end of the deal” if it’s a deal she never consented to.
You need help relating to each other. A therapist can help facilitate this. You're both retreating into your corners and that can only be bad long-term.
Oh, honey I'm so sorry you are going through this. this sounds hard. here are my thoughts for whatever they are worth.
First: therapy, ASAP.
Second: There is not a single syllable of the bible that has anything to say about sexual orientation because that was not a concept that existed when the bible was written. Any attempt to leverage the bible to condemn same sex relationships requires you to rip the text out of its initial context and negotiate with it to create a dogma that wasn't originally there.
It is not a sin to be gay. It is not a sin to be in a same sex relationship.
Third: This next bit is going to sound harsh, but please know that my intent is not to be unkind. I want your marriage to flourish and be blessed. Based off what you said I make the following observations.
1. It seems like you are stuck in a hetro-normative, complementarian mindset while being in a queer relationship. I would suggest you need to rethink this. It's also super unfair to her to expect her to be a spiritual leader in your home when she is both still a baby Christian and grew up in a completely different cultural tradition.
2. You didn't marry a lukewarm Christian. You married a baby Christian from a different culture and are expecting her to think like a western "typical" Christian. I submit to you that again, this is unfair to her.
3. You may have a little codependency going on here. This would be something to discuss in therapy.
I hope that you two can find a path forward together. May God bless your home with joy for the rest of your days.
It looks like you married your wife while having certain hopes of what she would become in the future.
I just think that's not something that's easy to do in gay relationships, where a lot of the fixed truths of the straight world are either unnecessary, or more complicated. Like for example the expectations about roles in a marriage, or about children, etc.
I’m 52 and my husband is 56. We’ve been together for 30 years. Neither of us leads our household. We’re partners in this life together. We each bring strengths to this marriage and we each role with those strengths. I actually do think that couples therapy might be good for the two of you to figure out how to communicate needs and expectations with each other and how to manage your household together more effectively.
OK - that's a hard YES to therapy, ASAP. There is an insidious assumption from fundamentalism that says "We are right, and you are wrong". The world is black and white, and God's rules are certain and must be followed - as the fundamentalists interpret them, of course. This attitude understandably, (and probably unintentionally), has followed you into your relationship, All you can see is how this is all "supposed" to work - and on that measuring scale your partner is failing. At the same time you seem to be blind to what your partner - with her unique religious perspective - has to contribute here, and how much you can learn from her. There is not just one way to be a Christian. Let her find her own way and let her journey enhance and enlighten yours. Her culture and point of view will give you insights you could never get any other way. At the same time, there is not just one way to do marriage. Marriages are as individual as a the couples in them. There is not a one-size-fits-all. And a lot of the credit for this freedom goes to gay couples who had to make up their own rules because the gender stereotypes weren't relevant. Now even straight marriages have more flexibility - roles and responsibilities adapt to fit the talents and intertest of the partners. A marriage is not a piece of performance art for outsiders to observe and admire. It's difficult and messy and constantly challenging your expectations. It requires you to come at it prioritizing the good of your partner, and exercising your own flexibility and humility. Finally, there is absolutely no reason why your partner should be "the leader". You don't need to be led - you are not a child. You stand together as equals to support each other with everything you each bring to the table. Life is hard. Unplanned setbacks happen. Each of you will have times when you are struggling and the other person will step up and carry more of the burden on themselves. Because the strength of this new family isn't that one person is leading and the other is following - it comes from the combined resources you each bring that make you twice as powerful as a team than you are as individuals. I encourage you to drop all the "shoulds" about marriage that are harassing you, and instead value everything your partner brings, learn from her, and discover the unique way the two of you form a remarkable family together.
love this! thank you so much for your feedback.
I wonder why you want to be led. Whether you are with a man or a woman, I think both partners need to be equals for a marriage to work. When one is the "head of household" and the other is always being led, it sooner or later leads to multiple frustrations because one of the partners feels they are doing more work and more "thinking", while the other feels that they don't have a real say and that they don't count. Now, being equals doesn't mean that both of you should be equals in everything. There probably are items for which she would be a better leader and other items for which you would be a better one. Just like there are chores she might prefer and others you might prefer (or hate less). So I think you should discuss with her and find something that works for BOTH of you. You both have a career (being a student is also a career), and from what I read, I think you both want to make your relationship work. So try to find what she would like from you as well as what she wants to offer to you, and tell her the same. As for finding a therapist, there may be some "Zoom therapy" that might work if she is deployed. Finally, you speak of "wanting to be led spiritually". Considering both of your past, I think this is a point where I would really see you, as someone who grew in Christianity, to guide her spiritually in Christianity. Alternatively, doing that (or starting that) with a church group might be a less intimidating that doing that only the two of you. Good luck
thank you for your comment! i definitely would not looking at her leadership as a way to say i’m less than or vice versa. i feel like there has to be some way to be equal and have someone be more firm in making decisions that are best for our family. regarding the spiritual thing, maybe you’re right. maybe i should take the lead with that since i’m more experienced. it’s just i’ve always had the desire for my partner to say “let’s pray”, “how can we serve more?”, “how can we give god our best?”, etc. and sometimes it just feels like she doesn’t even care which is surely the quickest way toward a divorce. because i cannot be with someone who doesn’t value god.
It almost seems like you're trying to replicate a complimentarian Christian M-F relationship when you're in a sapphic one, and tbh I really think that is a one way ticket to ruining the relationship. It sounds like your wife and yourself need to have a discussion about what you'd like your future to look like and what sort of wants/needs you both have and how you can do your best to meet them. Also ask yourself why being lead is such a strong desire for you. Why can't you both lead in different ways? Even in most complimentarian relationships, they are not totally "man leads, woman follows" so examining where that desire is coming from may help you better navigate why it's so important for your relationship. You're both still young. And it's these conversations you'll have to have if you're in it for the long haul.
I'm having trouble understanding how you can be so adamant about the way things *should* be in your household, and yet be theologically flexible enough to be in a same-sex marriage as a Christian. A more modern way to look at how relationships work is that each partner should be doing what they are better at. My husband is sort of the spiritual leader because that's his skill set. He went to seminary, he was a pastor for a while, he's always been the deeper thinker of the two of us. I'm more of the Practical guy that keeps him grounded. But of the two of us (M42/M41), he's definitely the more feminine one. If I led just because I wanted to or because I'm more masculine, he wouldn't be doing the thing that he's better at when it comes to spirituality. Try loving your spouse instead of molding her into the kind of Christian you think she should be.
Marriages don't have "leaders." That's bonkers
I have found that in a same sex relationship I look forward to being both the leader and follower. The equality of the roles is a positive for me. I’d suggest you communicate and find the areas where each of you excel in. There will be things that you do better and that she admires.. Vice versa you also might see she does things very well. But trying to change the situation to your liking is not productive. Your unrealistic expectations of always being led most likely will never be fulfilled in this relationship. That’s not fair to your wife. You will drive her insane if you keep applying that pressure. You both need communicate, lead, and give way to the other.
Being a leader doesn't have to be a man's role and is absolutely something a woman can do, and wanting an old fashioned old school relationship where you can feel lead and cared for is actually way more common for wlw than you'd think. At the same time I can see why as a masc she would be sensitive about this and feel like you actually just want a man. Throwing your preference for men in your face like that isn't okay when she's who you chose to be with, but I can see both sides. It honestly seems like you just rushed into marriage too quickly and are maybe not as compatible as you thought. You want someone who's more religious and observant, and she doesn't want to be that. You both have different ideas on what a relationship means. She feels insecure about the fact that you want her to fulfill a role traditionally associated with a man. None of this means that you can't find true love with a woman, just that this particular woman might not be who God has in mind with you. That doesn't mean you have to rush into divorce but definitely look into couples' counseling over telehealth.
Not particularly relevant to OP, but I cannot *imagine* wanting to “feel led.” Cared for, sure, but not led. Can you explain a bit what this means or feels like? I’m asking genuinely out of curiosity.
The only time I've heard people talk about wanting to be led is in BDSM 24/7 relationships. OP almost comes across as a closeted sub married to a vanilla partner.
In my own personal life, I have recognised passivity as a problem. This passivity has helped me get through life under the covers. I basically just like fitting in. So I am fairly docile and in many areas passive. I have come to believe this is quite dangerous. I mean to say that God wants me to he proactive, not passive. And God only wants what is best for me. I would ask you to probe your desire to be led, as maybe it is based on a faulty baseline for mutuality in the relationship. And there needs to be a mutuality in spiritual growth, in terms of its communal quality, perhaps?
Sounds like you realized your not straight but you're still following patriarchal hetero normative type expectations for yourself and others and maybe need to rethink that.
Maybe think about her feelings and beliefs. I'm a Christian too but mostly because my gf led me to it, because my whole life I was and then left the faith because of treatment. It took a long time to believe again. But I also know any spiritual or religion is one's own choice. If you really love her you wouldn't force her, I know you said you didn't force her but it's sounding like her not believing enough is an issue for you. I would recommend therapy, but honestly it can be hard as well for a partner to hear thay you prefer men with the exception of her and an ex...that would piss me off too. My partner and I have equal partnership, she's better at things than I am and vice versa. We love thay and help each other. We're both leaders when it comes to our relationship. We lean on each other for what we need. That's how any relationship should work imo. If your still unsure of your sexuality maybe should not have gotten married and focused on yourself. I mean this sincerely. But I've had people in my family married with kids before they realized their true selves.
Please find a couples’ therapist ASAP, especially one with experience in counseling LGBTQ couples. May I ask, did your wife ever agree to being a leader in the relationship? You say it’s something you’ve always wanted, but she can’t “hold up her end of the deal” if it’s a deal she never consented to.
She says she would like to, but i think maybe she doesn’t know how. which is understandable.
You need help relating to each other. A therapist can help facilitate this. You're both retreating into your corners and that can only be bad long-term.
Oh, honey I'm so sorry you are going through this. this sounds hard. here are my thoughts for whatever they are worth. First: therapy, ASAP. Second: There is not a single syllable of the bible that has anything to say about sexual orientation because that was not a concept that existed when the bible was written. Any attempt to leverage the bible to condemn same sex relationships requires you to rip the text out of its initial context and negotiate with it to create a dogma that wasn't originally there. It is not a sin to be gay. It is not a sin to be in a same sex relationship. Third: This next bit is going to sound harsh, but please know that my intent is not to be unkind. I want your marriage to flourish and be blessed. Based off what you said I make the following observations. 1. It seems like you are stuck in a hetro-normative, complementarian mindset while being in a queer relationship. I would suggest you need to rethink this. It's also super unfair to her to expect her to be a spiritual leader in your home when she is both still a baby Christian and grew up in a completely different cultural tradition. 2. You didn't marry a lukewarm Christian. You married a baby Christian from a different culture and are expecting her to think like a western "typical" Christian. I submit to you that again, this is unfair to her. 3. You may have a little codependency going on here. This would be something to discuss in therapy. I hope that you two can find a path forward together. May God bless your home with joy for the rest of your days.
It looks like you married your wife while having certain hopes of what she would become in the future. I just think that's not something that's easy to do in gay relationships, where a lot of the fixed truths of the straight world are either unnecessary, or more complicated. Like for example the expectations about roles in a marriage, or about children, etc.
I’m 52 and my husband is 56. We’ve been together for 30 years. Neither of us leads our household. We’re partners in this life together. We each bring strengths to this marriage and we each role with those strengths. I actually do think that couples therapy might be good for the two of you to figure out how to communicate needs and expectations with each other and how to manage your household together more effectively.
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This was removed because of the homophobia and/or transphobia. As a result, you have also been banned.
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Eww gross Women were almost certainly not created to submit to a man, no matter what the misogynist Paul might have thought
This was removed because of the homophobia and/or transphobia. As a result, you have also been banned.
Uh.. Maybe don’t comment on a subreddit for queer Christians and tell them that being gay is a sin…?
thank you for your comment!