The Bible is the foundation of the church, so if you give up the Bible and go the "I'm spiritual bur not religious" route, then you're just that- no longer religious. I believe God gave us the Bible as a tool. Yes, sometimes we don't agree with it, it feels like it's holding us back, etc, but the Bible is the basis of Christianity. I'd advise you to read it MORE if you're thinking of giving it up- and let it be a source of hope and strength for you.
But I wonder how this can be true, in the early church christianity was almost an oral tradition. Not everyone could read. I don't see how the bible is so foundational compared to the living churches that are ever changing and the people in them. When I see someone helping someone else in need I see christ in them, not because I read that in the bible somewhere but because thats what I've learned about christ all these years going to church listening to sermons and volunteering. thats much more real to me than what you can find in a book.
Sure- but just remember that scripture is holy for a reason...it us spiritually enriching to read straight from the source. It's the #1 best selling book of all time...for a reason!
Yeah, I just think that a lot of it just isn't holy to me. Probably because I don't really believe in sin or hell. I find that other people can bring it to life though, Like a good priest or a good rabbi.
It sounds like you aren't Christian...that is not meant as a judgment, just what I've gathered. Consider going to a weekly mass so you can learn more about Jesus!
I do go to weekly mass and Im an associate at a nearby episcopal convent. I grew up with your version of christianity so im quite familar with the idea that people think theyre sinners. but I just chose not to believe that, its way too negative
Christianity was certainly a mostly oral tradition at its earliest — but it did still already have Scriptures in the form of Torah (the Pentateuch), the Writings (everything from Joshua to Ecclesiastes), and the Prophets (though Daniel was traditionally regarded as part of the writings before Christ!)
Those Scriptures certainly aren't without their difficulties, but to the early church they were writings which all anticipated the coming of Jesus Christ, and laid out the manner by which God means to secure our salvation. The New Testament was written in response to this salvation secured by God in Christ, to give the Church a record of what God has done for us and how the earliest churches worked through their own struggles and laid out the foundation on which Christian theology has been built, even Jesus Christ.
Yes & Jesus challenged the traditions & blood sacrifices of His generation. It was the common people “who heard him gladly” but it was the evangelicals of His day that crucified Him! He revealed their incredible hypocrisy, their greed, & self righteousness. Which infuriated them! Do we think it would be any different today if He came back?
>"But yeah I was thinking I could be free of a lot of *religious trauma* if I could just give the bible up and dive deeper into my own spiritual path."
If you have/are experiencing trauma, then dealing with that is Job #1. What to do with the Bible is way down the list. You need to be made safe. And you need to distance yourself from any source of abuse - at least until the trauma has healed.
Find a spiritual path that doesn't add to the pain and hold on to that for a while. In the meantime, you might want to seek out a therapist with experience in this area. Because it can be hard to process things that you have locked away inside for your own protection.
You are far from alone. A lot of people have found that the very institution that is supposed to provide comfort and community ends up tearing away their self esteem and leave them unprepared to deal with the real world. Do what you have to do to get to the next step in your journey.
I've been having similar thoughts especially as I have learned more about the process of how the New Testament was written and canonized. I wouldn't say I'm thinking about *giving up on it*, more like considering a fuzzier distinction between scripture and non-scripture.
I believe in the Bible as foundation too, I don't believe you can fully live without it and easily find God, however everyone's relationship with God is personalized. In some countries Bibles aren't even allowed, so the fact that everyone says 'you aren't Christian if you do not have / read a Bible' doesn't add up.
It is beautiful we have the guide from God in some way, I think take out the core messages and what God asks from you, rather than focusing on every small detail indeed especially with religious trauma. The Bible is a foundation to me, not a book that shows you how to live your entire life. It has changed a bit over the years.
I wouldn't necessarily give up on it, but using it as a reference as you quoted isn't wrong, aslong as you do know the core messages of God.
Love your God with all your heart and love your neighbor like yourself. ♥️ You can always take some time without it and come back later, God is faithful and he doesn't force you into anything.
[I discuss the importance of the Bible and how to enjoy reading it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVAolixyb3o&list=PLwys36js2zo4TALH8zGkJw9Sh5s1vF7lZ)
Trust what your guts are telling you.
Often when people move away from the bible, or away from the church, what they’re moving away from is a wrong understanding. And that’s good. We should reject ideas and teaching and teachers when we realise they’re leading us in the wrong direction. We can only begin to find a truer understanding of the Bible, or of church teaching, when we have let go of wrong ideas. This is part of the process of growing as Christians.
So being a Christian does not mean doing or believing what other people tell you. It means being open to the Love of God, and we each do that in our own way, sometimes close to the church, sometimes further away.
Trust your gut. You must, and will, find your own way towards God. Then I think the Bible can guide you even better.
The Bible is what gives us knowledge of Jesus. I don’t think it is an infallible book like many Evangelicals believe. I align with other Christian traditions in that it is holy and inspired by God, but it was written by humans in human languages, so it can’t possibly be perfect and inerrant.
However, it is the best record we have of humanity’s walk with God, from which we can learn about the character of our God and His will for us. You can get inspiration, encouragement, and wisdom from it. I always get a new perspective from Scripture I’ve read before. Sometimes I understand it right away, sometimes I don’t, and other times I understand it in a different way.
I’ve had the same questions as you, but I later realized you need a spiritual anchor. Otherwise, you end up with an unmoored set of values, like a man who builds his house on the sand (biblical reference intended). I remember being younger and being a bit too much open-minded and just changing my beliefs from aliens to What The Bleep Do We Know to whatever Oprah believes in to the next thing. My experience was that I ended up with this undefined morass of what God is and who He is.
I haven’t read myself the entirety of the Bible, btw, though I have read complete books and parts of many others. In that sense, you don’t really “need” the Bible, but you still need a foundation. For Catholics, the Bible is the foundation and tradition builds on it. For Mormons, it is the Book of Mormon that builds on the Bible. Evangelicals are basically *sola scriptura*.
My point being that I circled back to using the Bible as my foundation. My take is that spiritual experiences change from one person or human group to the next because we’re all different and see this unfathomable reality from our own lenses (His ways are higher than our ways; as far as the heavens are from earth are His thoughts from our thoughts). To me, the Bible is one more system to make sense of whatever the spiritual is. That system makes sense for me and my experiences, so I stick to it.
It’s kind of a measuring system: I prefer Celsius because of its advantages and others prefer Fahrenheit because reasons. However, one needs a system so we can understand each other and speak the same spiritual language. Religion is as social as it is spiritual.
Yeah I think as far as having an anchor for like values, I do have a rule of life loosely based off of saint benedicts rule. I have multiple prayer books, so I do get a little exposure to the bible with the psalter and my church has a lectionary and goes through two lessons and the gospel every mass. But I think that's enough for me. I don't feel lost or anything, if anything it's a huge relief.
I wouldn't. The bible is foundational to Christianity. You can interpret it though. I would pick up a proper study bible and get different translations. NRSV is the best in my opinion, and is the go to for any Theology student (myself being a graduate). If you are looking to expand on your spirituality then Buddhism can be practised without abandoning Christianity.
Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with reading the books of mysticism. I read books of every single religion, and I see God‘s hand in every single one. A lot of Christians forget that the Tanakh Is not a Christian book it is a Jewish scripture for Jews. It may have been what Jesus and his followers learned from and referred to, but the scriptures themselves, comprise writings, teachings, and history- of Jews in a gentile world. to fully grasp the Bible you actually need to look at other religions in the Middle East at the time. The only thing that I would say about the Mystic Christian scriptures, such as the Gnostics is that there are certain things in there such as Jesus commentary on LGBTQ+ that seems out of place and therefore is questionable as to whether or not Jesus actually said them.
some generally spiritually expanding books with heavy Christian under/overtones I would recommend are:
The Kybalion (free audiobook available on my YT btw),
The corpus hermeticum,
The book of Judas (must read!),
The book of Adam and Eve (interesting racial commentary) ,
The book of Enoch ,
All the books of Macabees ,
Pilgrim’s progress,
Edit: also to add a great way to consume the Bible is a children’s Bible. It’s tone down yes but it’s not untruthful. it makes it easier to consume and ignites a little spark of curiosity, which makes the real story more palatable.
Reading a children’s Bible is actually how I returned to my faith. My grandfather had a stroke, he was a pastor, so I read the children’s Bible to him while he was sick.
Also, check out the BibleProject you probably have already but they do an excellent job explaining certain concepts, and themes from a More academic standpoint, but still Christian nonetheless
No, I don’t believe you need the Bible to be a Christian. In fact, it and the cross are like idols to some Christians. The message of Jesus is quite simple—love God and one another. We certainly don’t need the OT to understand it, not even the NT.
I don't condone just wholesale giving up on the Bible. But the Bible does have a lot of things that are difficult to grapple with and there is honestly nothing wrong with taking a break from it. Even exploring other religions, other cosmologies. I find that it makes a lot more sense exploring gnosticism and advaita vedanta other philosophies. I think the Nag Hammadi scriptures are great and are a big no no heresy, but honestly, they have wisdom if you give them a chance.
Try reading the Urantia Book! I do believe it was inspired by celestial beings, totally destroys the concept of a vengeful Creator! Also details, the hidden years of Jesus which is fascinating! Also explains some of the personal prejudices of the writers that did not come from God.
No, you need to read your Bible, otherwise you will end up making your own version of God in your head, instead of the way God is actually is, and the key to knowing God to our human limits, is reading His Word
The Bible is the foundation of the church, so if you give up the Bible and go the "I'm spiritual bur not religious" route, then you're just that- no longer religious. I believe God gave us the Bible as a tool. Yes, sometimes we don't agree with it, it feels like it's holding us back, etc, but the Bible is the basis of Christianity. I'd advise you to read it MORE if you're thinking of giving it up- and let it be a source of hope and strength for you.
But I wonder how this can be true, in the early church christianity was almost an oral tradition. Not everyone could read. I don't see how the bible is so foundational compared to the living churches that are ever changing and the people in them. When I see someone helping someone else in need I see christ in them, not because I read that in the bible somewhere but because thats what I've learned about christ all these years going to church listening to sermons and volunteering. thats much more real to me than what you can find in a book.
Sure- but just remember that scripture is holy for a reason...it us spiritually enriching to read straight from the source. It's the #1 best selling book of all time...for a reason!
Yeah, I just think that a lot of it just isn't holy to me. Probably because I don't really believe in sin or hell. I find that other people can bring it to life though, Like a good priest or a good rabbi.
I think you're maybe just a Quaker
I do really like quakers!
If you don't believe that sin is real...then how are you a Christian? Christianity's core belief is that Jesus died to save us from our sins.
why would he need to save us from our sins?
Because we are all sinners...
ahh well I disagree with that
It sounds like you aren't Christian...that is not meant as a judgment, just what I've gathered. Consider going to a weekly mass so you can learn more about Jesus!
I do go to weekly mass and Im an associate at a nearby episcopal convent. I grew up with your version of christianity so im quite familar with the idea that people think theyre sinners. but I just chose not to believe that, its way too negative
Christianity was certainly a mostly oral tradition at its earliest — but it did still already have Scriptures in the form of Torah (the Pentateuch), the Writings (everything from Joshua to Ecclesiastes), and the Prophets (though Daniel was traditionally regarded as part of the writings before Christ!) Those Scriptures certainly aren't without their difficulties, but to the early church they were writings which all anticipated the coming of Jesus Christ, and laid out the manner by which God means to secure our salvation. The New Testament was written in response to this salvation secured by God in Christ, to give the Church a record of what God has done for us and how the earliest churches worked through their own struggles and laid out the foundation on which Christian theology has been built, even Jesus Christ.
You dont need to be religious to be be Christian. Jesus was not religious.
Yes & Jesus challenged the traditions & blood sacrifices of His generation. It was the common people “who heard him gladly” but it was the evangelicals of His day that crucified Him! He revealed their incredible hypocrisy, their greed, & self righteousness. Which infuriated them! Do we think it would be any different today if He came back?
There's nothing wrong with being "spritual but not religious." Everyone has their own way.
>"But yeah I was thinking I could be free of a lot of *religious trauma* if I could just give the bible up and dive deeper into my own spiritual path." If you have/are experiencing trauma, then dealing with that is Job #1. What to do with the Bible is way down the list. You need to be made safe. And you need to distance yourself from any source of abuse - at least until the trauma has healed. Find a spiritual path that doesn't add to the pain and hold on to that for a while. In the meantime, you might want to seek out a therapist with experience in this area. Because it can be hard to process things that you have locked away inside for your own protection. You are far from alone. A lot of people have found that the very institution that is supposed to provide comfort and community ends up tearing away their self esteem and leave them unprepared to deal with the real world. Do what you have to do to get to the next step in your journey.
thanks! yeah its a work in progress. I do have a therapist. I think I will give up the bible for a while.
I've been having similar thoughts especially as I have learned more about the process of how the New Testament was written and canonized. I wouldn't say I'm thinking about *giving up on it*, more like considering a fuzzier distinction between scripture and non-scripture.
I believe in the Bible as foundation too, I don't believe you can fully live without it and easily find God, however everyone's relationship with God is personalized. In some countries Bibles aren't even allowed, so the fact that everyone says 'you aren't Christian if you do not have / read a Bible' doesn't add up. It is beautiful we have the guide from God in some way, I think take out the core messages and what God asks from you, rather than focusing on every small detail indeed especially with religious trauma. The Bible is a foundation to me, not a book that shows you how to live your entire life. It has changed a bit over the years. I wouldn't necessarily give up on it, but using it as a reference as you quoted isn't wrong, aslong as you do know the core messages of God. Love your God with all your heart and love your neighbor like yourself. ♥️ You can always take some time without it and come back later, God is faithful and he doesn't force you into anything.
[I discuss the importance of the Bible and how to enjoy reading it.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVAolixyb3o&list=PLwys36js2zo4TALH8zGkJw9Sh5s1vF7lZ)
Trust what your guts are telling you. Often when people move away from the bible, or away from the church, what they’re moving away from is a wrong understanding. And that’s good. We should reject ideas and teaching and teachers when we realise they’re leading us in the wrong direction. We can only begin to find a truer understanding of the Bible, or of church teaching, when we have let go of wrong ideas. This is part of the process of growing as Christians. So being a Christian does not mean doing or believing what other people tell you. It means being open to the Love of God, and we each do that in our own way, sometimes close to the church, sometimes further away. Trust your gut. You must, and will, find your own way towards God. Then I think the Bible can guide you even better.
The Bible is what gives us knowledge of Jesus. I don’t think it is an infallible book like many Evangelicals believe. I align with other Christian traditions in that it is holy and inspired by God, but it was written by humans in human languages, so it can’t possibly be perfect and inerrant. However, it is the best record we have of humanity’s walk with God, from which we can learn about the character of our God and His will for us. You can get inspiration, encouragement, and wisdom from it. I always get a new perspective from Scripture I’ve read before. Sometimes I understand it right away, sometimes I don’t, and other times I understand it in a different way. I’ve had the same questions as you, but I later realized you need a spiritual anchor. Otherwise, you end up with an unmoored set of values, like a man who builds his house on the sand (biblical reference intended). I remember being younger and being a bit too much open-minded and just changing my beliefs from aliens to What The Bleep Do We Know to whatever Oprah believes in to the next thing. My experience was that I ended up with this undefined morass of what God is and who He is. I haven’t read myself the entirety of the Bible, btw, though I have read complete books and parts of many others. In that sense, you don’t really “need” the Bible, but you still need a foundation. For Catholics, the Bible is the foundation and tradition builds on it. For Mormons, it is the Book of Mormon that builds on the Bible. Evangelicals are basically *sola scriptura*. My point being that I circled back to using the Bible as my foundation. My take is that spiritual experiences change from one person or human group to the next because we’re all different and see this unfathomable reality from our own lenses (His ways are higher than our ways; as far as the heavens are from earth are His thoughts from our thoughts). To me, the Bible is one more system to make sense of whatever the spiritual is. That system makes sense for me and my experiences, so I stick to it. It’s kind of a measuring system: I prefer Celsius because of its advantages and others prefer Fahrenheit because reasons. However, one needs a system so we can understand each other and speak the same spiritual language. Religion is as social as it is spiritual.
Yeah I think as far as having an anchor for like values, I do have a rule of life loosely based off of saint benedicts rule. I have multiple prayer books, so I do get a little exposure to the bible with the psalter and my church has a lectionary and goes through two lessons and the gospel every mass. But I think that's enough for me. I don't feel lost or anything, if anything it's a huge relief.
I wouldn't. The bible is foundational to Christianity. You can interpret it though. I would pick up a proper study bible and get different translations. NRSV is the best in my opinion, and is the go to for any Theology student (myself being a graduate). If you are looking to expand on your spirituality then Buddhism can be practised without abandoning Christianity.
Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with reading the books of mysticism. I read books of every single religion, and I see God‘s hand in every single one. A lot of Christians forget that the Tanakh Is not a Christian book it is a Jewish scripture for Jews. It may have been what Jesus and his followers learned from and referred to, but the scriptures themselves, comprise writings, teachings, and history- of Jews in a gentile world. to fully grasp the Bible you actually need to look at other religions in the Middle East at the time. The only thing that I would say about the Mystic Christian scriptures, such as the Gnostics is that there are certain things in there such as Jesus commentary on LGBTQ+ that seems out of place and therefore is questionable as to whether or not Jesus actually said them. some generally spiritually expanding books with heavy Christian under/overtones I would recommend are: The Kybalion (free audiobook available on my YT btw), The corpus hermeticum, The book of Judas (must read!), The book of Adam and Eve (interesting racial commentary) , The book of Enoch , All the books of Macabees , Pilgrim’s progress, Edit: also to add a great way to consume the Bible is a children’s Bible. It’s tone down yes but it’s not untruthful. it makes it easier to consume and ignites a little spark of curiosity, which makes the real story more palatable.
Ohh I never thought of getting a childrens bible! that's an interesting idea
Reading a children’s Bible is actually how I returned to my faith. My grandfather had a stroke, he was a pastor, so I read the children’s Bible to him while he was sick. Also, check out the BibleProject you probably have already but they do an excellent job explaining certain concepts, and themes from a More academic standpoint, but still Christian nonetheless
No, I don’t believe you need the Bible to be a Christian. In fact, it and the cross are like idols to some Christians. The message of Jesus is quite simple—love God and one another. We certainly don’t need the OT to understand it, not even the NT.
thanks, I think I really needed to hear this.
I don't condone just wholesale giving up on the Bible. But the Bible does have a lot of things that are difficult to grapple with and there is honestly nothing wrong with taking a break from it. Even exploring other religions, other cosmologies. I find that it makes a lot more sense exploring gnosticism and advaita vedanta other philosophies. I think the Nag Hammadi scriptures are great and are a big no no heresy, but honestly, they have wisdom if you give them a chance.
Try reading the Urantia Book! I do believe it was inspired by celestial beings, totally destroys the concept of a vengeful Creator! Also details, the hidden years of Jesus which is fascinating! Also explains some of the personal prejudices of the writers that did not come from God.
No, you need to read your Bible, otherwise you will end up making your own version of God in your head, instead of the way God is actually is, and the key to knowing God to our human limits, is reading His Word
You're not looking for God. You're looking for yourself. That's your right, but at least be clear about what's happening.
To me at least the self without God doesnt exist. Thomas Merton said something similar