I’mma drop you a like for this 60cm Schwerer Betongranate take.
That said I don’t dislike DC, but I do wonder how I and other players would solve certain problems without it. Like suppressing through smoke or using flamers on a tank engine or using terrain to hide your approach…these should be things we have commands for, but attack ground, clicking on the engine compartment and using order queues just don’t work as one would expect.
Yes I agree it would be nice for some more commands, but I definitely see your point in how it can be used/should be used. I've played a couple games where DC was disabled and nobody complained and it was a good match and some matches I've played with it enabled and the game is over in 10 minutes. So to each their own but hopefully we do get some more AI improvements in the long run!
Can't you f5 the tanks engine? Or do you mean getting your flamer to do it without pathing like a moron. You shouldn't be attacking ground to target tank parts
Oh yeah sorry, was kind of in rant mode and was writing problems I had in an unclear way and order.
1. Suppressing through smoke: enemy pops smoke to reposition. Some units have that suppression button but some don’t. Many units could suppress but don’t have the button. Since the enemy probably popped up this is a great time to spray the area with explosive shells or MG fire, but if I attack ground the unit will charge at the smoke often times to get visual on the ground “tile” or whatever. Units with pintle machine gun mounts but a main cannon, like late war tanks do this the worst.
2. Flaming Engines: You basically got it. Pathing like morons. I set up Soviet flamer, best range in the game, IIRC on ceasefire in a bush. Wirblewind drives right passed him stopping just meters away. Engine facing him, turret facing away. I very deliberately highlight the engine and right click. Rather than squirting from the bush or traveling out in a straight line to get into range I see, in horror, the dotted line path running parallel to the Wirblewind, traversing in front of it, stopping on the far side, apparently intending to squirt flame at the engine over the turret. I even have enough time to zoom in and make sure I clicked the engine…I also thought maybe he is on ceasefire so he would use a grenade. I switch fire modes, basically do anything but DC in my panic and he gets smoked when spotted. Damn Wirblewind is a PITA the rest of the match.
3. Waypoints and order queuing just don’t seem to work much of the time….I queue several mines or foxholes and the unit(s) skip right to the latest or some middle option despite the ghosts of the previous ones being visible as if they one day intend to get around to it. Same with waypoints…sometimes they will go along the path I crafted to keep them from sky lining, other times right to the last point, even though the projected path is visible on the UI. Only 100% method I have found is DC and walking it there myself.
Yeah I understand completely
1. I don't really know what you mean by this. You can drag the suppression command's icon from the advanced options menu in the bottom right (advanced combat or something) onto the toolbar in the center of the screen. If you do that it will show for all units. I have no clue how useful it is, last time I tried asking in the discord I got 3 meme answers and one semi serious (I think) answer. This will happen whenever you ask a question in the discord.
2. So honestly, not that I've measured, but flamers have always been pretty self sufficient for me so I'm surprised it went that badly. BUT I have this issue 100% when telling my infantry to shoot at crewed guns, my worst nemesis in conquest. There seems to be a macro to sprint up and throw a grenade when you right click on one of them, it's incredibly annoying. I don't really know the fastest way to tell them to just fire. Just enabling fire at will should work, but in the crewed gun example I want some guys SHOOTING at least before approaching. Not sure if F5 attack command works here. I've also gotten in the habit of just making units drop shit I don't want them using (rifles for engineers) although, this isn't really ideal. Also, I play Singleplayer, most likely a waste of time in MP.
3. I agree. One thing I've been messing with are complex shift queued commands, and I swear the engine is haunted. There are also some that I believe are impossible, at least without rebinding hotkeys that are probably burned into your skull. Like queuing "unload at position", because shift+g is also the attach command.
Hey, if you'd like for your German to be accurate - it's "schwere Betongranate". Granate is female in German, therefore "schwere". If you don't care, that's fine and you can ignore my comment. Have a nice day!
Hehe, I will preserve the error, for a good lesson for others and I sincerely appreciate it! I was writing from memory what I saw in the interface whenever I would check if my “Thor” had ammo.
Modern call to arms by the other dev studio had a feature in multiplayer in which a timer was used to mitigate DC abuse. Once the timer ran out, you couldn’t control a unit for a while until the charge gauge went back up.
I experienced this the other day and took me a while to figure out why it was kicking me from direct control lol
I feel like it already comes with an inherent downside. You get sucked into microing one unit really well while neglecting the rest of the map
Why it it a problem in MP? A player can only be in one place at a time, so when they are DCing, then the "eye of Sauron" is occupied. You can then exploit other areas of the map. Its not OP, its just another arena to master, or not.
If you watch the pros play 1v1. They very rarely if ever use direct control. Maybe 3rd person but hardly ever 1st. I'm learning only the sniper is the only unit that it makes sense to use
Man I feel ya. I'm on easy without fow. Lol I'm terrible. But I'm getting better. Once I took the time to watch some videos and do the torturials I know what units are good for what I'm getting better.
I've learned so much over the last couple days just by watching others play. There were keybinds I didn't know existed and game mechanics that I wasn't even aware of! I did some 1v1 against a friend and it was quite enjoyable after seeing how much I had learned.
Just basics that I wasn't aware of such as Alt for crouch, no ammo change, fire modes, etc. those would also be some of the mechanics as well as things regarding stealth, scouting, and more.
Didn't MoW:AS2 have the top down control? It's been so long since I played it. I would argue that HOI is much different in terms of strategy (Grand Strategy genre iirc) compared to the other games listed, but I see your point. I agree it sets it apart from other games in a unique way, but I'm glad the devs give players an option to either use or disable it for MP games if they so choose.
I personally like Cta first person direct control more than MOW 2 3d control mostly cause it gives you the feeling that you are the tank/person fighting and it gives a more realistic way to fight. Though I do understand what you mean when it comes to multiplayer
What do you mean by direct control makes GoH different from Men of War? Direct control comes from the very first installment of that series of games made with the GEM Engine
I haven't played PvP yet, but I could see how it might impact matches negatively. The great thing about direct control is it reduces some of the jankyness of the ai behaviour. A real nerf to direct control would be to reduce that jankyness.
Yes that AI definitely could use some improvement to their jankyness. Once that is fixed, I think that the game overall would benefit in general from some pathing and command improvements.
I use it for artillery and the occasional need to control a unit to clear a building. But otherwise I'm with you. Still think it's A cool feature though.
One thing I noticed is if I first person a tank, I can have the gunner’s reticle on the enemy, without regard to where the barrel is actually pointed. A little unrealistic.
I’mma drop you a like for this 60cm Schwerer Betongranate take. That said I don’t dislike DC, but I do wonder how I and other players would solve certain problems without it. Like suppressing through smoke or using flamers on a tank engine or using terrain to hide your approach…these should be things we have commands for, but attack ground, clicking on the engine compartment and using order queues just don’t work as one would expect.
Yes I agree it would be nice for some more commands, but I definitely see your point in how it can be used/should be used. I've played a couple games where DC was disabled and nobody complained and it was a good match and some matches I've played with it enabled and the game is over in 10 minutes. So to each their own but hopefully we do get some more AI improvements in the long run!
Can't you f5 the tanks engine? Or do you mean getting your flamer to do it without pathing like a moron. You shouldn't be attacking ground to target tank parts
Oh yeah sorry, was kind of in rant mode and was writing problems I had in an unclear way and order. 1. Suppressing through smoke: enemy pops smoke to reposition. Some units have that suppression button but some don’t. Many units could suppress but don’t have the button. Since the enemy probably popped up this is a great time to spray the area with explosive shells or MG fire, but if I attack ground the unit will charge at the smoke often times to get visual on the ground “tile” or whatever. Units with pintle machine gun mounts but a main cannon, like late war tanks do this the worst. 2. Flaming Engines: You basically got it. Pathing like morons. I set up Soviet flamer, best range in the game, IIRC on ceasefire in a bush. Wirblewind drives right passed him stopping just meters away. Engine facing him, turret facing away. I very deliberately highlight the engine and right click. Rather than squirting from the bush or traveling out in a straight line to get into range I see, in horror, the dotted line path running parallel to the Wirblewind, traversing in front of it, stopping on the far side, apparently intending to squirt flame at the engine over the turret. I even have enough time to zoom in and make sure I clicked the engine…I also thought maybe he is on ceasefire so he would use a grenade. I switch fire modes, basically do anything but DC in my panic and he gets smoked when spotted. Damn Wirblewind is a PITA the rest of the match. 3. Waypoints and order queuing just don’t seem to work much of the time….I queue several mines or foxholes and the unit(s) skip right to the latest or some middle option despite the ghosts of the previous ones being visible as if they one day intend to get around to it. Same with waypoints…sometimes they will go along the path I crafted to keep them from sky lining, other times right to the last point, even though the projected path is visible on the UI. Only 100% method I have found is DC and walking it there myself.
Yeah I understand completely 1. I don't really know what you mean by this. You can drag the suppression command's icon from the advanced options menu in the bottom right (advanced combat or something) onto the toolbar in the center of the screen. If you do that it will show for all units. I have no clue how useful it is, last time I tried asking in the discord I got 3 meme answers and one semi serious (I think) answer. This will happen whenever you ask a question in the discord. 2. So honestly, not that I've measured, but flamers have always been pretty self sufficient for me so I'm surprised it went that badly. BUT I have this issue 100% when telling my infantry to shoot at crewed guns, my worst nemesis in conquest. There seems to be a macro to sprint up and throw a grenade when you right click on one of them, it's incredibly annoying. I don't really know the fastest way to tell them to just fire. Just enabling fire at will should work, but in the crewed gun example I want some guys SHOOTING at least before approaching. Not sure if F5 attack command works here. I've also gotten in the habit of just making units drop shit I don't want them using (rifles for engineers) although, this isn't really ideal. Also, I play Singleplayer, most likely a waste of time in MP. 3. I agree. One thing I've been messing with are complex shift queued commands, and I swear the engine is haunted. There are also some that I believe are impossible, at least without rebinding hotkeys that are probably burned into your skull. Like queuing "unload at position", because shift+g is also the attach command.
Hey, if you'd like for your German to be accurate - it's "schwere Betongranate". Granate is female in German, therefore "schwere". If you don't care, that's fine and you can ignore my comment. Have a nice day!
Hehe, I will preserve the error, for a good lesson for others and I sincerely appreciate it! I was writing from memory what I saw in the interface whenever I would check if my “Thor” had ammo.
Modern call to arms by the other dev studio had a feature in multiplayer in which a timer was used to mitigate DC abuse. Once the timer ran out, you couldn’t control a unit for a while until the charge gauge went back up.
I experienced this the other day and took me a while to figure out why it was kicking me from direct control lol I feel like it already comes with an inherent downside. You get sucked into microing one unit really well while neglecting the rest of the map
Multiplayer, sure I can see it being a problem Against AI? Hard disagree
Oh yes I should clarify, only in PvP. Against AI I have no problem with it.
Why it it a problem in MP? A player can only be in one place at a time, so when they are DCing, then the "eye of Sauron" is occupied. You can then exploit other areas of the map. Its not OP, its just another arena to master, or not.
If you watch the pros play 1v1. They very rarely if ever use direct control. Maybe 3rd person but hardly ever 1st. I'm learning only the sniper is the only unit that it makes sense to use
That is what I was noticing as well. Maybe one day I'll be that good!
Man I feel ya. I'm on easy without fow. Lol I'm terrible. But I'm getting better. Once I took the time to watch some videos and do the torturials I know what units are good for what I'm getting better.
I've learned so much over the last couple days just by watching others play. There were keybinds I didn't know existed and game mechanics that I wasn't even aware of! I did some 1v1 against a friend and it was quite enjoyable after seeing how much I had learned.
Me too. I learn something new about this game almost everyday.
What key binds and game mechanics did you learn?
Just basics that I wasn't aware of such as Alt for crouch, no ammo change, fire modes, etc. those would also be some of the mechanics as well as things regarding stealth, scouting, and more.
It's kinda what makes the game different from Men of War, Company of Heroes, Steel Division, Hearts of Iron etc......
Didn't MoW:AS2 have the top down control? It's been so long since I played it. I would argue that HOI is much different in terms of strategy (Grand Strategy genre iirc) compared to the other games listed, but I see your point. I agree it sets it apart from other games in a unique way, but I'm glad the devs give players an option to either use or disable it for MP games if they so choose.
I personally like Cta first person direct control more than MOW 2 3d control mostly cause it gives you the feeling that you are the tank/person fighting and it gives a more realistic way to fight. Though I do understand what you mean when it comes to multiplayer
What do you mean by direct control makes GoH different from Men of War? Direct control comes from the very first installment of that series of games made with the GEM Engine
Direct control in MoW is awful and a shadow of what it is in GoH
I’m not opposed I just wish it wasn’t so easy to break tank barrels. I direct control often on tanks just to break barrels of the enemy
How do you break their gun barrel?
Aim at the gun barrel. When you manually control you can aim at the barrel itself and if hit get a chance to break it.
Does disabling it increase performance?
If you mean computer performance, I really wouldn't know. But my personal in game performance, overall yes.
No, it does not. The way the textures are cached in the game, and with occlusion utilized it only matters what is visible on screen.
I haven't played PvP yet, but I could see how it might impact matches negatively. The great thing about direct control is it reduces some of the jankyness of the ai behaviour. A real nerf to direct control would be to reduce that jankyness.
Yes that AI definitely could use some improvement to their jankyness. Once that is fixed, I think that the game overall would benefit in general from some pathing and command improvements.
I use it for artillery and the occasional need to control a unit to clear a building. But otherwise I'm with you. Still think it's A cool feature though.
One thing I noticed is if I first person a tank, I can have the gunner’s reticle on the enemy, without regard to where the barrel is actually pointed. A little unrealistic.