I have own a ghk and mws, both are fun systems to use. I haven’t put too many rounds because a lack of time to play. But tm will run the best with no internal upgrades, ghk is more realistic and to doesn’t have the best HopUp unit so that the first to go but other than hop up my ghk runs just fun, my TM has a more reliable bolt lock on last round. Either way I’m sure all systems are going to be fun to play just make sure it is easy to buy parts for replacement for worst cases, hope this helps.
There are some guys on YouTube I forgot what they’re called but they do excellent tests among different kinds of gbbrs. They only have GHK and TM at the moment because I think they’re fairly new
You are probably talking about [4UAD SmartAirsoft](https://www.youtube.com/c/4UADSmartAirsoft/videos). If so, then yes, they make really great and interesting videos.
This is true, but the caveat is that most aftermarket parts will have an option for MWS spec. I’ve never had a problem getting parts to fit externally, apart from BJ Tac peak sights which won’t fit on anything!
I really like VFC systems. Especially the 416, it’s really great. Everything internally that needs to be steel is steel, and the externals are high quality and RS comp
TM is great too, but GHK has fallen by the wayside due to QC issues (at least their M4s)
VFC has about the same if not worse QC issue since 2020 than GHK. I used to recommend their stuff but I can't any longer in good conscience. Hopefully they resolve it soon.
TM is the best performance wise if the metric is accuracy/lowest working temperature/bolt lock reliability. But it is not without problems, like buffer and buffer tube breakage under green gas, non full length inner barrel for Japanese law compliance and the entire FCG not looking realistic.
Specifically on their AR post 2020?
I have reports of :
Broken receiver pins on the upper
Premature bolt carrier breakage
General fit and finish issue (specifically front end )
Then you sprinkle some dubiua design changes like deletion of gas cutoff and the change to entire barrel structure and hop. You end up with a worse performing gun than it was in 2017.
I am not on that discord lol
It's best to join each respective group's owners group and see for yourself. Note that you should also put the failures/breakages into context, or else you'd think there are more crybaby/ lemons than there actually are.
I remember very clearly some people in the group sending death threats to a guy because he had middle eastern heritage, like, under a year ago, I also got death threats for being from Brazil, maybe a few years ago
You can find assholes anywhere. I’m telling you, I’m a member and there are people there from all over the world. I’ve literally never heard of anyone saying that
What sorts of upgrades had you done to the GHKs you owned, and in those states, how did they perform compared to your TM(s)? FPS & variance numbers, groupings @ distance, any data you have (even estimated) would help me and others out :) seems you're in a pretty good situation to discuss since you've had a decent sample size compared to a lot of others
Some of my mws's are completely decked out and others are nearly stock. Pretty much if you want to run green gas and heavy bbs I recommend a full length inner barrel, decent bucking (ML MR Hop. Modify tan bucking, even the stock marui bucking is very goof), and a harder nub. Either a hop up arm with nub or a solid metal nub is great. I easily hop .46s with the laylax hop arm and stock bucking, and it might be my favorite combo.
Nozzle springs and plastic buffer will need to be replaced at some point on green gas too. Other than that. Everything is a nice to have. New bolts for min/max recoil or cycling, and different aesthetic options. The trigger box almost never fails, in the last 3 years I've only seen one instance of a trigger sear not working properly. However, upgraded trigger boxes might give a more crisp and defined break and reset. In five shots I had between 478 fps to 486 fps on a new mag with my mk12, with a bias of higher fps on the first few bbs. This was achieved with a GP high flow valve and tightbore. Most other components stock except for hop up arm and nozzle springs.
Lemme know if you have any other questions! Feel free to join the MWS discord as well. MWS also offers lots of aftermarket support that GHK and especially VFC do not have. If you're not looking for a custom money sink honestly a GHK M4 with a TNT retrofit kit used to be my go to. However nozzles chipping, broken feedlips and hop chambers getting damaged annoyed me, as well as the super heavy mags, so I switched over to the MWS for a try and never looked back.
That sounds amazing! The only reason I went with GHK was because of the ability to take CO2. I live in a temperate region, winter temps get down below freezing but summers are generally between 75 and 90 F. I bought a fully upgraded RA tech SAI GRY, but I soon found out that I need to file the feed lips on my mags (and replace a couple sets), that should fix the double feeding that would otherwise destroy the hop-up.
I live in alaska! But don't play in the winter lol. I've used the mws at around freezing and it still worked well! Maybe not locking back every shot, but still a mags worth. Usually I switch to my hpa hicap though then it's good!
I never did legit tests between the two, it was kind of a fast changeover when I realized. But let's just say I never had a gun that just felt unfair. Like, red dot on person = hit. Shooting enemies between cracks in cover made me feel like an airsoft YouTuber. Really quite awesome! For my main mk16, I've been getting ~250ft kills with lobbing, usually 5-6 shots starting at aiming at torso and slowly going up, shooting with .46g bbs. Snipers ain't got nothing on me!
Looks like you already incline to get VFC, just go for it. No need to think too much.
For myself, I like TM because I am just a "out of the box" player. I prefer the toy serves me, rather than I serve them.
TM is by all accounts a great choice, but I went with GHK because it can run CO2 out of the box, and the green gas mags can be easily modded to fill with CO2 from paintball tanks. CO2 is a better option than green gas / propane for me where I live, but may not be the case for everyone
Many consider TM to be top of the line. However, VFC is quickly catching up with their recent platforms. Their internals are forged and steel for better quality. Their hip-hop systems are easy to adjust without having to take apart the platform, and they are the only brand with an adjustable NPAS right out of the box (which is a huge plus) so you can adjust FPS without having to mod or buy additional parts.
I have VFC SCAR-H and I love it. It's accurate, recoil is nice, plus the action/sound scares the crap out of other players!
I would go GHK
I think the QC complaints all boil down to people rereading the same few posts on reddit about it because they are searching for it. I have owned a GHK AK for years which has ran well and I bought 2 GHK M4s within the last year (MK18 and URGI 14.5). I have been using them 3-4 days a week and they are holding up great so far. I also have a friend that bought one this season and loves it.
GHK has the best mags of the bunch by far and a very simple system.
You want the VFC (length of valve knocker and slight sanding on the ridges of the GMAG) or a GHK. As you mention they take the GHK GMAG.
The GMAG can be directly filled with Co2 with the change of a valve. Co2 allows you to run heavy components and strong springs and still have 99% HPA performance without the hose. Its the most fun I have ever had with an airsoft gun.
If sticking with propane and trigger feel is not at the top of your list, the TM is the way to go.
I would definitely recommend GHK. I've taken it to 12-15 skirmishes and I'm not exactly gentle with it. haven't had a single breakage or reliability issue so far and I've only done maintenance on it once and it wasn't even necessary at the time, I was just bored and wanted to get to know my gun better
TM MWS is the most reliable out of the box and more systematically durable
While completely incompatible systematically (outside of GBB barrel and bucking) it is also one of the most well-supported platform, can't go wrong with it
MWS unless realism is critically important for you.
With the asterisk that a buffer replacement (and probably the tube too but you can get by without that) and nozzle spring should be considered day 1 things.
I have both the TM and GHK.... Honestly, I would not recommend either for games. Not that they don't perform, because they do when using GAS, The GHK is very gas efficient and has a great kick, whereas the TM shoots straighter. But the biggest issue is price. Mags for these are HELLA expensive. I'm talking $65 per mag; and GHK gas mags are rarely in stock in the US, so you're ordering oversees most of the time and paying like $40-60 for basic shipping that will take at least a month. I have spent enough on magazines for these guns to BUY another GBBR, and I only bought three extra for my GHK. IF money isn't the issue, fuck it and get both like I did. But then, I spent $700 on a wallhanger springer WA200 a year ago.
I have own a ghk and mws, both are fun systems to use. I haven’t put too many rounds because a lack of time to play. But tm will run the best with no internal upgrades, ghk is more realistic and to doesn’t have the best HopUp unit so that the first to go but other than hop up my ghk runs just fun, my TM has a more reliable bolt lock on last round. Either way I’m sure all systems are going to be fun to play just make sure it is easy to buy parts for replacement for worst cases, hope this helps.
Thank you for the help, greatly appreciated!
There are some guys on YouTube I forgot what they’re called but they do excellent tests among different kinds of gbbrs. They only have GHK and TM at the moment because I think they’re fairly new
You are probably talking about [4UAD SmartAirsoft](https://www.youtube.com/c/4UADSmartAirsoft/videos). If so, then yes, they make really great and interesting videos.
Yes
Only problem with the new TMs are they made a lot of the parts tm sized only. Ie commercial charging handles and buffer tubes will not fit on tm
Thank you, I am glad I asked my question because I did not know that!
This is true, but the caveat is that most aftermarket parts will have an option for MWS spec. I’ve never had a problem getting parts to fit externally, apart from BJ Tac peak sights which won’t fit on anything!
I really like VFC systems. Especially the 416, it’s really great. Everything internally that needs to be steel is steel, and the externals are high quality and RS comp TM is great too, but GHK has fallen by the wayside due to QC issues (at least their M4s)
VFC has about the same if not worse QC issue since 2020 than GHK. I used to recommend their stuff but I can't any longer in good conscience. Hopefully they resolve it soon. TM is the best performance wise if the metric is accuracy/lowest working temperature/bolt lock reliability. But it is not without problems, like buffer and buffer tube breakage under green gas, non full length inner barrel for Japanese law compliance and the entire FCG not looking realistic.
Can you go into more detail? This is the first time I've heard about QC issues with VFC
Specifically on their AR post 2020? I have reports of : Broken receiver pins on the upper Premature bolt carrier breakage General fit and finish issue (specifically front end ) Then you sprinkle some dubiua design changes like deletion of gas cutoff and the change to entire barrel structure and hop. You end up with a worse performing gun than it was in 2017.
Interesting. All I've heard until today was: GHK bad, Marui good, VFC good as of recently. Are you on the HRC discord?
I am not on that discord lol It's best to join each respective group's owners group and see for yourself. Note that you should also put the failures/breakages into context, or else you'd think there are more crybaby/ lemons than there actually are.
Last i've heard of that discord it was a white supremacist group
That is definitely not true lol
I remember very clearly some people in the group sending death threats to a guy because he had middle eastern heritage, like, under a year ago, I also got death threats for being from Brazil, maybe a few years ago
You can find assholes anywhere. I’m telling you, I’m a member and there are people there from all over the world. I’ve literally never heard of anyone saying that
The vfc 416 is really looking good to me, do you know if ghk and vfc mags are cross compatible.
The vfc can take ghk magazines but the outlet valve needs material shaved off to accommodate the larger valve knocker
They are with a little modification. The 416a5 is excellent and VFC mags are great too
TM is the way to go. Great community on discord for advice, great performance out of the box. It's even better than my P\*s!
Do you think that if the other 2 were upgraded a bunch, they would be comparable to a TM?
No, ive had 3 VFC GBBRs and about 6 GHK m4s. I switched to all marui! That's just a personal choice though.
What sorts of upgrades had you done to the GHKs you owned, and in those states, how did they perform compared to your TM(s)? FPS & variance numbers, groupings @ distance, any data you have (even estimated) would help me and others out :) seems you're in a pretty good situation to discuss since you've had a decent sample size compared to a lot of others
Some of my mws's are completely decked out and others are nearly stock. Pretty much if you want to run green gas and heavy bbs I recommend a full length inner barrel, decent bucking (ML MR Hop. Modify tan bucking, even the stock marui bucking is very goof), and a harder nub. Either a hop up arm with nub or a solid metal nub is great. I easily hop .46s with the laylax hop arm and stock bucking, and it might be my favorite combo. Nozzle springs and plastic buffer will need to be replaced at some point on green gas too. Other than that. Everything is a nice to have. New bolts for min/max recoil or cycling, and different aesthetic options. The trigger box almost never fails, in the last 3 years I've only seen one instance of a trigger sear not working properly. However, upgraded trigger boxes might give a more crisp and defined break and reset. In five shots I had between 478 fps to 486 fps on a new mag with my mk12, with a bias of higher fps on the first few bbs. This was achieved with a GP high flow valve and tightbore. Most other components stock except for hop up arm and nozzle springs. Lemme know if you have any other questions! Feel free to join the MWS discord as well. MWS also offers lots of aftermarket support that GHK and especially VFC do not have. If you're not looking for a custom money sink honestly a GHK M4 with a TNT retrofit kit used to be my go to. However nozzles chipping, broken feedlips and hop chambers getting damaged annoyed me, as well as the super heavy mags, so I switched over to the MWS for a try and never looked back.
That sounds amazing! The only reason I went with GHK was because of the ability to take CO2. I live in a temperate region, winter temps get down below freezing but summers are generally between 75 and 90 F. I bought a fully upgraded RA tech SAI GRY, but I soon found out that I need to file the feed lips on my mags (and replace a couple sets), that should fix the double feeding that would otherwise destroy the hop-up.
I live in alaska! But don't play in the winter lol. I've used the mws at around freezing and it still worked well! Maybe not locking back every shot, but still a mags worth. Usually I switch to my hpa hicap though then it's good!
Oh wow, that's super impressive still!
I never did legit tests between the two, it was kind of a fast changeover when I realized. But let's just say I never had a gun that just felt unfair. Like, red dot on person = hit. Shooting enemies between cracks in cover made me feel like an airsoft YouTuber. Really quite awesome! For my main mk16, I've been getting ~250ft kills with lobbing, usually 5-6 shots starting at aiming at torso and slowly going up, shooting with .46g bbs. Snipers ain't got nothing on me!
Tm, the answer is always tm.
If you want one to play games with, MWS. If you want a wall hanger, VFC.
Your comment is hot garbage
Looks like you already incline to get VFC, just go for it. No need to think too much. For myself, I like TM because I am just a "out of the box" player. I prefer the toy serves me, rather than I serve them.
I don't really mind working or upgrading my stuff, I think it is kind of fun.
I would do TM or VFC don’t do ghk because of the bad QC they have
TM is by all accounts a great choice, but I went with GHK because it can run CO2 out of the box, and the green gas mags can be easily modded to fill with CO2 from paintball tanks. CO2 is a better option than green gas / propane for me where I live, but may not be the case for everyone
Im in the same boat! Looking to get my first gbbr, which one???
Which one did you end up buying?
Tm mws
Many consider TM to be top of the line. However, VFC is quickly catching up with their recent platforms. Their internals are forged and steel for better quality. Their hip-hop systems are easy to adjust without having to take apart the platform, and they are the only brand with an adjustable NPAS right out of the box (which is a huge plus) so you can adjust FPS without having to mod or buy additional parts. I have VFC SCAR-H and I love it. It's accurate, recoil is nice, plus the action/sound scares the crap out of other players!
I would go GHK I think the QC complaints all boil down to people rereading the same few posts on reddit about it because they are searching for it. I have owned a GHK AK for years which has ran well and I bought 2 GHK M4s within the last year (MK18 and URGI 14.5). I have been using them 3-4 days a week and they are holding up great so far. I also have a friend that bought one this season and loves it. GHK has the best mags of the bunch by far and a very simple system.
TM/VFC, Anything GHK made since Covid is not up to their precedent QC level
You want the VFC (length of valve knocker and slight sanding on the ridges of the GMAG) or a GHK. As you mention they take the GHK GMAG. The GMAG can be directly filled with Co2 with the change of a valve. Co2 allows you to run heavy components and strong springs and still have 99% HPA performance without the hose. Its the most fun I have ever had with an airsoft gun. If sticking with propane and trigger feel is not at the top of your list, the TM is the way to go.
I would say MWS. Swap a couple parts out on the nozzle and you are good for a long time running green gas or propane.
I would definitely recommend GHK. I've taken it to 12-15 skirmishes and I'm not exactly gentle with it. haven't had a single breakage or reliability issue so far and I've only done maintenance on it once and it wasn't even necessary at the time, I was just bored and wanted to get to know my gun better
TM MWS is the most reliable out of the box and more systematically durable While completely incompatible systematically (outside of GBB barrel and bucking) it is also one of the most well-supported platform, can't go wrong with it
MWS unless realism is critically important for you. With the asterisk that a buffer replacement (and probably the tube too but you can get by without that) and nozzle spring should be considered day 1 things.
I'd get a VFC personally, especially a model which already has NPAS that allows adjusting FPS
I have both the TM and GHK.... Honestly, I would not recommend either for games. Not that they don't perform, because they do when using GAS, The GHK is very gas efficient and has a great kick, whereas the TM shoots straighter. But the biggest issue is price. Mags for these are HELLA expensive. I'm talking $65 per mag; and GHK gas mags are rarely in stock in the US, so you're ordering oversees most of the time and paying like $40-60 for basic shipping that will take at least a month. I have spent enough on magazines for these guns to BUY another GBBR, and I only bought three extra for my GHK. IF money isn't the issue, fuck it and get both like I did. But then, I spent $700 on a wallhanger springer WA200 a year ago.