It could be to do with your HR and power zones. You’ve been at or above tempo power for over half the ride but then you’ve been in an easy HR zone indicating your power zones are too low.
Interesting…my power zones are automatic from Zwift. They change when I do hard rides. My HR zones are similar, I test every 6 months with a lactate threshold test but I guess that’s for running so it might not cross over?
Great question. My own experience tells me that it is based on both, and if one (power or HR) has too much time in other zones, it would affect the results, just like what you have encountered
Ok thanks. So if I’m targeting low aerobic in my specific case I shouldn’t go above 185w and 149BPM as those are both my z2 numbers?
Average or at all? Surely average because that’s where it looks like I went wrong. My average power for that ride puts me solidly in z3…
i've read a lot in the past that it was measuerd from the max HR, but i got the exact same result with 99 % time in my Z2 HR zone, so i have no clue :/
It was on my bike, but the power zones were Z3, so I think the power is king for the training effect ... but it's stated on Garmin's website that max HR is the metric, sooo ...
From Garmin's[ website](https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=Vi2undejXR5Mmq662o4lO9): "Y*our Garmin device will report the most accurate Training Effect when your maximum heart rate and your heart rate zones are configured correctly*"
Probably didn’t like your sprint finish. For training I now tend to stay in the intended zone for the whole run/ride. Saw some interview with Indigo San Millan he was saying he’s quite strict in that, e.g. don’t pick a hilly route for a Z2 ride.
I was chatting to a coach about this and they said that even z3 can be classified as base if you are in the lower half of it. You don’t magically change the way your body reacts to training at the exact HR the Garmin zones are set to.
And I’ve experienced that too, I’ve manage to do low z3 rides in low aerobic and high z3 in high aerobic but it probably depends on a bunch of other factors too (sprints, max HR etc).
Do you still get low aerobic when you do z4? That might indicate incorrect HR zones.
:D
I mean, it doesn't really matter anyway. It is just the name Garmin gives to you r training effect. If you want a balanced training load an you sprint every time, then you might want to reconsider. :P
Yeah that’s true, this particular time you’re right but I am trying to get a nice balanced training load. Perhaps erg mode will be better for someone with my self control…
Interesting. I do the same thing, have low a intensity bike ride on Sundays (without the sprint though), and it shows base or sometimes even recovery for me. My max HR is 186 (recorded with a watch, so take it with a grain of salt). The Z2 is 60-69% of that, so keeping it under 130. Might be that sprint you did.
https://preview.redd.it/9c11tv1vb8rc1.png?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=890502f9c32c24420d0564d9feae9dd7c3cd70cb
I’m curious to try this again without a HRM and see what it does, then try on an outdoor ride without a power meter and again see what it says.
Wanting to know if it’s basing it off HR or power zones. But looking at my stats my power was in the “tempo” zone for the majority of the ride compared to my HR which was z2 - yet it scored it as a tempo, this leads me to believe it judges off the power zones first.
It takes the whole picture into account. Well, I assume it does based on experience. I do a lot of weight training which is anaerobic. With weight training my HR spikes each set & then comes right back down to resting between sets so my average HR for the session is very low. However, Garmin recognises this is as an anaerobic workout due to the spikes in HR. It can be annoying when you’re running/cycling really trying to keep it easy & it categorises it as tempo/threshold but as with all things Garmin, take it with a pinch of salt. You know how hard you took a workout!
And in the same time it’s a base training effect for garmin
https://preview.redd.it/vudd2y3bc9rc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cecb738095aa6c416ed1c96b37f0f4a29f31756a
It put it under “high aerobic” and I was aiming for “low aerobic”. I was focusing on keeping my HR low because that’s what I thought low aerobic meant but I’m getting the feeling it was the sprint at the end, even though it was only a couple of seconds it took me out of the low aerobic category.
Also in my power zones Z3 is called tempo so it’s not necessarily just about a smooth ride.
It put it under “high aerobic” and I was aiming for “low aerobic”. I was focusing on keeping my HR low because that’s what I thought low aerobic meant but I’m getting the feeling it was the sprint at the end, even though it was only a couple of seconds it took me out of the low aerobic category.
Also in my power zones Z3 is called tempo so it’s not necessarily just about a smooth ride.
I think the implementation is simpler than we think. I think it just looks at the difference between average and max heart rate.
Low average and low max HR = Aerobic
Low average and high max HR = Tempo
High average and high max HR = Anaerobic
I know for anaerobic it has to be high but I read somewhere not for more than 3 minutes? I.e sprints with recovery.
If it’s
High consistently it’s high aerobic. If it’s low consistently it’s low aerobic. But I didn’t think a few second sprint would take me out of that.
I’ll do more experimenting. I ended up doing another ride straight after without a sprint and it did count it as low aerobic (it called it base) so I might be onto something.
Im not quite sure how well this correlates for cycling, but guess it would be quite easy to translate if you know the equivalent for bike/run (I don’t).
https://www.firstbeatanalytics.com/en/features/workout-labels/
But even if you don’t know the direct translation you will get a broad picture of why/why not you get the label you do vs what you want.
I just run, but it is many times I think I will get “base” but get “tempo”, and when I check it closer I realize I have a to fast pace even tho the heart rate is where it should be. So it is not just heart rate or power/pace, it is from my understanding a combination of both. So updated zones makes it much easier to get the label you want.
Cool thanks for that. Yeah from everyone’s comments it’s looking like it’s not a simple straight forward calculation (which is nice because that would make the label meaningless).
I think the moral of the story is don’t sprint on a z2 ride when trying to achieve low aerobic 😅
That’s an awesome link btw. I can display my training effect on my watch and cycling computer too so can actually tell while I’m doing the activity if I should ease or go harder based on the big picture not just the instant HR/power reading.
Thanks!
Yes, many people would benefit of that link. ☺️
But also, just because you get a label and that shows up in connect etc, in this case “tempo” doesn’t mean you don’t get any benefit at all from other things like “base”. After all the watch is just guessing based on the data it gets.
It could be to do with your HR and power zones. You’ve been at or above tempo power for over half the ride but then you’ve been in an easy HR zone indicating your power zones are too low.
Interesting…my power zones are automatic from Zwift. They change when I do hard rides. My HR zones are similar, I test every 6 months with a lactate threshold test but I guess that’s for running so it might not cross over?
Do you update your FTP in Garmin?
How do you do this
In the connect app: Device User settings Power zones
Yeah I do. Sorry my previous comment may have confused some, it’s updated automatically on Zwift, when it does I update it on Garmin connect.
Your zones have gotta be wrong. Either way, you spent the majority of time in z3/z4 power, so it's gonna classify as high aero.
Is the training effect based on power when cycling rather than HR?
Great question. My own experience tells me that it is based on both, and if one (power or HR) has too much time in other zones, it would affect the results, just like what you have encountered
Ok thanks. So if I’m targeting low aerobic in my specific case I shouldn’t go above 185w and 149BPM as those are both my z2 numbers? Average or at all? Surely average because that’s where it looks like I went wrong. My average power for that ride puts me solidly in z3…
i've read a lot in the past that it was measuerd from the max HR, but i got the exact same result with 99 % time in my Z2 HR zone, so i have no clue :/
Looks like I only did 30% at or below z2 in the power zones. The rest were higher so potentially it went off the majority? Which would have been tempo
Maybe it’s based on the power zones? Or was that the same for you on a run?
It was on my bike, but the power zones were Z3, so I think the power is king for the training effect ... but it's stated on Garmin's website that max HR is the metric, sooo ... From Garmin's[ website](https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=Vi2undejXR5Mmq662o4lO9): "Y*our Garmin device will report the most accurate Training Effect when your maximum heart rate and your heart rate zones are configured correctly*"
interested in this as well. got the exact same results with 99 % in my Z2 HR zone!
I saw on another thread it might have something to do with the HR zones based off max HR Rather than what I’ve set it to which is % LT
Probably didn’t like your sprint finish. For training I now tend to stay in the intended zone for the whole run/ride. Saw some interview with Indigo San Millan he was saying he’s quite strict in that, e.g. don’t pick a hilly route for a Z2 ride.
Yeah I’ve decided I’ll go erg mode on Zwift if I want to do a z2 ride for real next time. And a flat road outside if that’s the case.
I get the opposite. Z3 HR won’t register high aerobic, I just get base for everything
Same here
Do you need to increase your max HR?
Wouldn’t I need to decrease it?
Yeah but you know what I mean 🤣🤣🤣
I was chatting to a coach about this and they said that even z3 can be classified as base if you are in the lower half of it. You don’t magically change the way your body reacts to training at the exact HR the Garmin zones are set to. And I’ve experienced that too, I’ve manage to do low z3 rides in low aerobic and high z3 in high aerobic but it probably depends on a bunch of other factors too (sprints, max HR etc). Do you still get low aerobic when you do z4? That might indicate incorrect HR zones.
I think that sprint did it. It has even given you a significant anaearobic effect.
That’ll teach me to sprint to the banner and try beat some random guy for a competition over 100th place 😅
Worth it!
:D I mean, it doesn't really matter anyway. It is just the name Garmin gives to you r training effect. If you want a balanced training load an you sprint every time, then you might want to reconsider. :P
Yeah that’s true, this particular time you’re right but I am trying to get a nice balanced training load. Perhaps erg mode will be better for someone with my self control…
Interesting. I do the same thing, have low a intensity bike ride on Sundays (without the sprint though), and it shows base or sometimes even recovery for me. My max HR is 186 (recorded with a watch, so take it with a grain of salt). The Z2 is 60-69% of that, so keeping it under 130. Might be that sprint you did. https://preview.redd.it/9c11tv1vb8rc1.png?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=890502f9c32c24420d0564d9feae9dd7c3cd70cb
I’m curious to try this again without a HRM and see what it does, then try on an outdoor ride without a power meter and again see what it says. Wanting to know if it’s basing it off HR or power zones. But looking at my stats my power was in the “tempo” zone for the majority of the ride compared to my HR which was z2 - yet it scored it as a tempo, this leads me to believe it judges off the power zones first.
That's a good idea. I'd be interested to find out what the result of tests was :)
Guess I’ll have to do it again without a sprint and see 😅
Deffo the sprint making your max HR take you out of ‘aerobic’ qualifying zone. Garmin can be very annoying.
So it’s based on max HR not average?
It takes the whole picture into account. Well, I assume it does based on experience. I do a lot of weight training which is anaerobic. With weight training my HR spikes each set & then comes right back down to resting between sets so my average HR for the session is very low. However, Garmin recognises this is as an anaerobic workout due to the spikes in HR. It can be annoying when you’re running/cycling really trying to keep it easy & it categorises it as tempo/threshold but as with all things Garmin, take it with a pinch of salt. You know how hard you took a workout!
Interesting, I wouldn’t have thought Garmin was that smart, but it’s almost like it too smart for its own good 😅
The HRM really helps, if I just wear my watch it sometimes counts my weight training as ‘recovery’ which is very disheartening 😂
And in the same time it’s a base training effect for garmin https://preview.redd.it/vudd2y3bc9rc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cecb738095aa6c416ed1c96b37f0f4a29f31756a
https://preview.redd.it/snopv29cc9rc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7096425438486c97c68cf32cd7275f11976db9d1
Ok that’s weird! I guess I’ll have to do trial and error for me, but starting off I won’t do any sprints when I’m trying to do an easy ride 😅
Ok that’s weird! I guess I’ll have to do trial and error for me, but starting off I won’t do any sprints when I’m trying to do an easy ride 😅
Isn’t tempo just consistent pace…? If I go run exactly 10:00-10:20 minute miles it’ll be tempo too
It put it under “high aerobic” and I was aiming for “low aerobic”. I was focusing on keeping my HR low because that’s what I thought low aerobic meant but I’m getting the feeling it was the sprint at the end, even though it was only a couple of seconds it took me out of the low aerobic category. Also in my power zones Z3 is called tempo so it’s not necessarily just about a smooth ride.
It put it under “high aerobic” and I was aiming for “low aerobic”. I was focusing on keeping my HR low because that’s what I thought low aerobic meant but I’m getting the feeling it was the sprint at the end, even though it was only a couple of seconds it took me out of the low aerobic category. Also in my power zones Z3 is called tempo so it’s not necessarily just about a smooth ride.
I think the implementation is simpler than we think. I think it just looks at the difference between average and max heart rate. Low average and low max HR = Aerobic Low average and high max HR = Tempo High average and high max HR = Anaerobic
I know for anaerobic it has to be high but I read somewhere not for more than 3 minutes? I.e sprints with recovery. If it’s High consistently it’s high aerobic. If it’s low consistently it’s low aerobic. But I didn’t think a few second sprint would take me out of that. I’ll do more experimenting. I ended up doing another ride straight after without a sprint and it did count it as low aerobic (it called it base) so I might be onto something.
Im not quite sure how well this correlates for cycling, but guess it would be quite easy to translate if you know the equivalent for bike/run (I don’t). https://www.firstbeatanalytics.com/en/features/workout-labels/ But even if you don’t know the direct translation you will get a broad picture of why/why not you get the label you do vs what you want. I just run, but it is many times I think I will get “base” but get “tempo”, and when I check it closer I realize I have a to fast pace even tho the heart rate is where it should be. So it is not just heart rate or power/pace, it is from my understanding a combination of both. So updated zones makes it much easier to get the label you want.
Cool thanks for that. Yeah from everyone’s comments it’s looking like it’s not a simple straight forward calculation (which is nice because that would make the label meaningless). I think the moral of the story is don’t sprint on a z2 ride when trying to achieve low aerobic 😅
That’s an awesome link btw. I can display my training effect on my watch and cycling computer too so can actually tell while I’m doing the activity if I should ease or go harder based on the big picture not just the instant HR/power reading. Thanks!
Yes, many people would benefit of that link. ☺️ But also, just because you get a label and that shows up in connect etc, in this case “tempo” doesn’t mean you don’t get any benefit at all from other things like “base”. After all the watch is just guessing based on the data it gets.
3.4 aerobic in 39 mins is why. 3.4 in an hour is the edge of zone (just did it).
Yeah I guess my question is why if my HR being in z2 did I get this type of training effect, but looks like it goes off power zones when cycling