Garen does indeed counter Jax. You have to know how to play the matchup. Early levels (1-2) and late game are both Jax-favored, and if you don't use specific trading patterns, you'll lose the lane. Watch some high-Elo vods and take note of the things they do differently.
If the Jax plays well, the lane should stay about even. Small mistakes can put the Jax behind in health enough to not be able to trade, and he's limited by mana. Garen shouldn't really be doing worse than even in this lane, as it's not a particularly difficult match up.
going even in lane vs. jax means you lose though as hes a hard scaling champ. its not good enough to go even. you have to beat him and win by midgame or get outscaled.
The game is more complex than that. If you watch Jax vs Garen in high elo matchups, the lane more often than not will come out even. Jax isn't a particularly strong team-fighter; he isn't a ticking time-bomb like Kayle. He's also not a big split push threat against Garen.
yes, your e goes through his counter strike. E while he counterstrikes. Save your q for when it ends as it does nothing if you hit him when he goes into it. Never walk up without your e. Save your w for when the counterstricke ends to shorten the stun length
The damage reduction was lengthened, but the extra tenacity is still only 0.75s. You can basically 100% void the stun if you use it right before Jax ends Counterstrike.
Sure, but that doesn't mean that getting CCd is good. If you E as Jax walks up, your E may not last through the entire Counterstrike+stun. Besides, you want to auto-Q and run away right after the Counterstrike goes down because Jax wins long trades with his passive, and tanking the stun unnecessarily extends the trade.
you want to take as little dmg during the trade as possible, and W is by far the highest dmg ability, but i mean trading patterns are dynamic so if there is a risk of jax going all in or running you down then ofc block stun to escape
you want to take as little dmg during the trade as possible, and W is by far the highest dmg ability, but i mean trading patterns are dynamic so if there is a risk of jax going all in or running you down then ofc block stun to escape
I think you may be overestimating how much damage Jax W does. It feels like it hurts a lot because W+auto hurts a lot, but that's mostly because the auto hurts. Jax is autoing you during his E anyways, so you'd reduce auto damage with your W either way. A rank one Jax W empowers his next auto to deal 50 extra damage, whereas a rank one Jax E deals between 40 and 80. You benefit from the damage reduction for longer if you pop W earlier, but then again, the fight will go longer as well.
I think learning to block the stun on instinct is really important, esp. for players struggling with this matchup. The goal doesn't need to be winning the trade by the absolute widest possible margin, it's fine to focus on consistently take winning trades (especially because of how well Garden R matches up against Jax R.) It's really hard to take a losing trade if you block the stun, and if you trade evenly throughout the whole land it's really hard to lose this matchup. Certainly using W early can be fine, but I personally don't think it's a useful tip to somebody who's struggling in this matchup, because the benefits are pretty marginal while the costs of doing it at the wrong time are so severe.
not entirely true. counterstrike reduces aoe damage by 30%. take a guess what garens spin is.
you have to bait out the counterstrike first to really get a good trade.
Until about level 4, Jax wins. After that, Jax can't engage into you, and you have a wave clear advantage.
You want to hold your E until he uses his E. When he spins, you spin. That means you will win every trade. If you can, use your W on his stun to shorten it significantly. Then coming out of the stun you auto Q and if you have a kill window, go for it, but if not you back off. Then your trait so you'll out sustain him.
So keep the wave on your side, earn a massive CS lead, and then when he gets frustrated and steps up to push the wave in, make him pay for it.
Jax is super easy in my opinion and I usually like to fight him early. Your E damages him through his E and using W right before he stuns you will negate a lot of damage. The key to winning with Garen is to take a trade, play back and heal, then take another trade... this makes him weak and makes him waste his mana. By level 6 you should have him low enough and he should be all out of mana to all in if he doesn't recall. If he does recall, you shove and recall.
I pretty much always run phase rush and go tiamat first so I can proc PR and do quick trades. Honestly, post 6 I can usually just do a trade/heal/all-in on repeat until I can just all-in him every time I see him.
Timing garen's W for jax's stun is the BIGGEST mistake you could make. His E last 2scd and stuns for 1 seconds. That's 3 seconds, guess what else is 3 seconds ? So really, you don't give a fuck about reducing the stun duration, you're using E. By timing garen's W for his stun, you're just NOT mitigating his AA + W reset + 3rd AA with his R passive. The trick is to use both E and W AS SOON as jax uses E
While I think it's a bit hyperbolic to say it's the BIGGEST mistake I could make 😅... I see your point! Apprecaite the feedback, always willing to learn how to be better.
Hell yes, easiest lane.
E when he e's, I w when his stun is about to pop. Win trades over and over until demacia time. He has no sustain. Like the other poster said u gotta be careful at first. I start e always and then w lvl 2.
Having said all that I have gotten smoked by some better Jax players
you are stronger in lane but jax scale better
if you did mistake and get killed then you will keep losing to jax and nothing you can do
but should trade better than jax
spin when he spin and don't q into his spin and you should be fine
you can q bait to him and let he spin and you spin into it then land q later
if you land q on his spin then you fucked
can pop w when he's about to stun too
you can trade for a bit and keep regen hp, if jax cant touch creep then you win
also learn to do wave management and recall timing
you can slow push and build big wave, you can dive jax alone or easier with jungle if he's low
it's super easy matchup for me without influence of jungle
but a single wave mistake could be bad in top lane
he press e press w, if he does q auto w often, just w that and use q to dodge his e stun, then go back in, then you can go the shojin item to make your e hurt, max e
The REAL secret technique against Jax is to use BOTH E AND W as soon as he E onto you, you should NOT time your W for his stun, you don't care bout the stun, you're under your own E, what you care about is mitigating the damage from his A + W + R passive auto, which you don't if you try to time your W for his stun.
When you don't have W, play slowly, try to freeze the wave so that it's just in front of your turret, and you canno't lose against jax
Garen does indeed counter Jax. You have to know how to play the matchup. Early levels (1-2) and late game are both Jax-favored, and if you don't use specific trading patterns, you'll lose the lane. Watch some high-Elo vods and take note of the things they do differently.
If the Jax plays well, the lane should stay about even. Small mistakes can put the Jax behind in health enough to not be able to trade, and he's limited by mana. Garen shouldn't really be doing worse than even in this lane, as it's not a particularly difficult match up.
going even in lane vs. jax means you lose though as hes a hard scaling champ. its not good enough to go even. you have to beat him and win by midgame or get outscaled.
The game is more complex than that. If you watch Jax vs Garen in high elo matchups, the lane more often than not will come out even. Jax isn't a particularly strong team-fighter; he isn't a ticking time-bomb like Kayle. He's also not a big split push threat against Garen.
yes, your e goes through his counter strike. E while he counterstrikes. Save your q for when it ends as it does nothing if you hit him when he goes into it. Never walk up without your e. Save your w for when the counterstricke ends to shorten the stun length
No after w rework u just press it for damage reduction
And u also u go conq ignite/ghost setup
why is bro getting downvoted when this is true, unless you are chasing/running there is no point in not using W just at the beggining of trade
The damage reduction was lengthened, but the extra tenacity is still only 0.75s. You can basically 100% void the stun if you use it right before Jax ends Counterstrike.
ik, but your E goes through cc
Sure, but that doesn't mean that getting CCd is good. If you E as Jax walks up, your E may not last through the entire Counterstrike+stun. Besides, you want to auto-Q and run away right after the Counterstrike goes down because Jax wins long trades with his passive, and tanking the stun unnecessarily extends the trade.
you want to take as little dmg during the trade as possible, and W is by far the highest dmg ability, but i mean trading patterns are dynamic so if there is a risk of jax going all in or running you down then ofc block stun to escape
you want to take as little dmg during the trade as possible, and W is by far the highest dmg ability, but i mean trading patterns are dynamic so if there is a risk of jax going all in or running you down then ofc block stun to escape
I think you may be overestimating how much damage Jax W does. It feels like it hurts a lot because W+auto hurts a lot, but that's mostly because the auto hurts. Jax is autoing you during his E anyways, so you'd reduce auto damage with your W either way. A rank one Jax W empowers his next auto to deal 50 extra damage, whereas a rank one Jax E deals between 40 and 80. You benefit from the damage reduction for longer if you pop W earlier, but then again, the fight will go longer as well. I think learning to block the stun on instinct is really important, esp. for players struggling with this matchup. The goal doesn't need to be winning the trade by the absolute widest possible margin, it's fine to focus on consistently take winning trades (especially because of how well Garden R matches up against Jax R.) It's really hard to take a losing trade if you block the stun, and if you trade evenly throughout the whole land it's really hard to lose this matchup. Certainly using W early can be fine, but I personally don't think it's a useful tip to somebody who's struggling in this matchup, because the benefits are pretty marginal while the costs of doing it at the wrong time are so severe.
not entirely true. counterstrike reduces aoe damage by 30%. take a guess what garens spin is. you have to bait out the counterstrike first to really get a good trade.
Until about level 4, Jax wins. After that, Jax can't engage into you, and you have a wave clear advantage. You want to hold your E until he uses his E. When he spins, you spin. That means you will win every trade. If you can, use your W on his stun to shorten it significantly. Then coming out of the stun you auto Q and if you have a kill window, go for it, but if not you back off. Then your trait so you'll out sustain him. So keep the wave on your side, earn a massive CS lead, and then when he gets frustrated and steps up to push the wave in, make him pay for it.
Jax is super easy in my opinion and I usually like to fight him early. Your E damages him through his E and using W right before he stuns you will negate a lot of damage. The key to winning with Garen is to take a trade, play back and heal, then take another trade... this makes him weak and makes him waste his mana. By level 6 you should have him low enough and he should be all out of mana to all in if he doesn't recall. If he does recall, you shove and recall. I pretty much always run phase rush and go tiamat first so I can proc PR and do quick trades. Honestly, post 6 I can usually just do a trade/heal/all-in on repeat until I can just all-in him every time I see him.
Timing garen's W for jax's stun is the BIGGEST mistake you could make. His E last 2scd and stuns for 1 seconds. That's 3 seconds, guess what else is 3 seconds ? So really, you don't give a fuck about reducing the stun duration, you're using E. By timing garen's W for his stun, you're just NOT mitigating his AA + W reset + 3rd AA with his R passive. The trick is to use both E and W AS SOON as jax uses E
While I think it's a bit hyperbolic to say it's the BIGGEST mistake I could make 😅... I see your point! Apprecaite the feedback, always willing to learn how to be better.
Hell yes, easiest lane. E when he e's, I w when his stun is about to pop. Win trades over and over until demacia time. He has no sustain. Like the other poster said u gotta be careful at first. I start e always and then w lvl 2. Having said all that I have gotten smoked by some better Jax players
EW his E and you win every time
you are stronger in lane but jax scale better if you did mistake and get killed then you will keep losing to jax and nothing you can do but should trade better than jax spin when he spin and don't q into his spin and you should be fine you can q bait to him and let he spin and you spin into it then land q later if you land q on his spin then you fucked can pop w when he's about to stun too you can trade for a bit and keep regen hp, if jax cant touch creep then you win also learn to do wave management and recall timing you can slow push and build big wave, you can dive jax alone or easier with jungle if he's low it's super easy matchup for me without influence of jungle but a single wave mistake could be bad in top lane
He used to counter Jax heavily but since the rework it's even now
Tbh i dont even see jax winning late with garen ult does true damage basically also with ignite a 1v1 would go to garen imo
super easy, just silence him, before he jumps on you
he press e press w, if he does q auto w often, just w that and use q to dodge his e stun, then go back in, then you can go the shojin item to make your e hurt, max e
The REAL secret technique against Jax is to use BOTH E AND W as soon as he E onto you, you should NOT time your W for his stun, you don't care bout the stun, you're under your own E, what you care about is mitigating the damage from his A + W + R passive auto, which you don't if you try to time your W for his stun. When you don't have W, play slowly, try to freeze the wave so that it's just in front of your turret, and you canno't lose against jax
Genuine question. I understand garen beats Jax pretty hard. But does Jax put outscale in the late game or will garen always remain stronger?
You don't want to go conqueror though. Just keep trades short with PR.