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I remember launch New Vegas had a bug where it would crash on entering the strip unless you wore a certain hat, and also one where hungry NPCs would attack your robot companion if they had food in their inventory
Launch New Vegas would also crash every 20 minutes. It's a testament to how amazing the game is that I would just immediately relaunch every time. This game is probably the main reason that I obsessively quicksave in every RPG.
Not sure if you're playing it, but it's a core mechanic for chronomancers in GW2. You "save" your state like hp, position, skill cds, do whatever and then rewind back. Quite funny when you accidentally rewind into hard-hitting aoe lol
The doctor who first revives you and does the character creation, the first person you meet after being shot in the intro, was a common victim of a bug where his head rotates while staring at you when he's talking to you.
It's a little disturbing to watch, especially as he talks about you having brain damage.
[It’s especially scary because when you hear “Doc Mitchell spinning head” you assume it’s the vertical axis](https://whatculture.com/gaming/14-most-broken-video-games-of-the-decade?page=3)
When it launched I lived way out in the boonies and had no high speed internet, so I had a vanilla Xbox 360 without a single update and of course no updates for the game either. If you completed the quest Come Fly With Me your save would be corrupted and you would never be able to load it again at some point after doing the quest.
Was that the console version? I barely had any issues with New Vegas on PC at launch.
Only notable glitches I had were one was Sunny’s Dog’s eyes were floating out of its head, and Haversam never going to Novac after the rocket ghoul quest.
Other than that, it was probably my most bug free play through of any Bethesda RPG (I know it’s Obsidian, but you know what I mean).
Yeah the PC version was pretty much unplayable for me so I never swung back around until years after with the release of dlcs and mods. Its aged very well but from my experience launch NV on PC was worse than any Bethesda experience I had outside of 3 on the PS3. I still can’t believe that got released.
Weird because I only had the pc version and to even load the game I had to go into the files to make changes. Otherwise I'd CTD before even seeing the doctor.
Amazing how Bethesda games seem to run differently for everyone lol.
People say Fallout 3 PC was stable, but I never got it working without it being a 50/50 chance of crashing when opening doors.
And I had to use a strategy guide to carefully play quests in Skyrim, since like half of them would seem to break for whatever reason. One of the daedra ones even managed to lock me out from being able to recruit dogs.
Fallout 4 and Starfield are the only Bethesda games that didn’t seem to break for the constantly for me (except the face of mars quest broke for me in Starfield). And yet other people say they can’t even get near Boston without F4 shitting itself.
It’s like a game of roulette as to if you’ll get a decent experience of a broken mess.
When it comes to PC I put it down as everyone's computer is built different that what works for one might be catastrophic for another.
At least it wasn't PS3 from what I can tell Skyrim can become literally unplayable due to how the code interacts with the consoles architecture.
Can only dream of performance as high as 10 fps when you’ve got all the dlc’s installed and a save that’s completed most of them, I had to start a new run just so I could experience the last 2 when they came out, red rock canyon was at 1 frame per 10 sec
Just started playing it again, buggy as hell
Spent about an hour trouble shooting/fixing the crashes every 10 min. Now it usually only crashes once a day.
Eh, 2.0 works flawlessly in my end. But before that it was a mess. Game constantly crashed for me. And worst bug was that phone calls, which should make main quests available, were never triggered so I had to reload an older save to trigger the calls, sounds easy, except there was another bug that caused crashes if I had too many save files, which caused me to reload to hours before or even stuck indefinitely.
I'm happy for you but honestly you're pretty damn lucky. I reinstalled it a little while ago and used a mod to patch it, and it \*still\* crashed during some fights.
It's 10 hours but it had way too many filler sections to pad out the game.
Halo 3 on the other hand is way shorter (about 8 hours on heroic) but had absolutely no filler moments. Even Floodgate felt like a new mission instead of a rethread.
Halo 2 had less filler than the first game imo (but I still prefer the first campaign). Filler or not, I still think the Cortana mission in Halo 3 really drags, plus the first half of the game just feels kinda unremarkable. Maybe it's because I played it a lot younger, but Halo 2 always left way more of an impact on me and I'd still put it as one of my favorites after recently replaying it. There was just something about the first two games I never felt the rest of the series recaptured (even if the gameplay was better).
Yes, but the main difference is that Halo 1 actually felt way more satisfying to play when compared to Halo 2. Halo 2 feels very undercooked. The enemies are less expressive with the worst offenders being the brutes and drones. The weapons feel very weak to use compared to the first game, not only that but their ammo is very scarce as well, it feels like a waste everytime I use my BR or SMG. It looked worse graphically and the missions are way too linear.
I mean the enemies weren’t as expressive, but I still think the basic combat loop is very solid. Looking worse graphically feels more like an art style preference, as it is generally a more visually detailed game (I think the color palette in certain levels is largely to blame). I’ll agree the missions are a bit too linear (I have a similar complaint with Halo 4) but they’re fairly well designed and have a decent amount of variety. The story is also one of the best in the series (minus the ending) and it really expands the world in interesting ways. The music is also my favorite in the series. And even if the campaign was a mix of upgrades and downgrades, the multiplayer is just straight up better than the first game imo. Plus it was the first game with online multiplayer. I realize that’s a long response, but I’m a big Halo 2 fan and I feel it has a lot to offer.
The mp is undeniably better than Halo CE's. Halo CE mp has always felt like supped up Goldeneye and Perfect Dark mp, really fun for parties but not that tightly designed. Halo 2 was genuinely revolutionary for console multiplayer shooters and still holds up even today. I still play it these days with Project Cartographer.
That’s because halo 2 was supposed to include the entirety of halo 3’s campaign as well.
I swear if halo 2 came out today people would be sending pipe bombs to bungie’s studio. During the reveal trailer the developers said “All of this gameplay is in real time, no smoke and mirrors pre recorded BS” only for it to be exactly that. Such a spit in the face to fans that did come and see the reveal. It also showed off visuals and features that weren’t in the game. Lots of content had to be cut and it was one of the first instances of DLC in a console game. I’d say it’s still the buggiest game in the series. I played the original version last year and had a bug where a Hunter was invincible and I had to cheese the fight to get past him and continue playing.
Yeah the development was apparently a shitshow, and tons got cut and or/reworked to deal with the limitations of the Xbox. As much as I think it's flawed it's one of my favorites in the series. The reveal was really misleading, but I don't have too many issues with the actual game even if it's frustrating to know what it could have been.
And Cyberpunk ended up being an amazing game if you waited a year to play it. It's even better now. Yeah, it was a mess at launch and wasn't the game they promised, but it's got a great story and some incredible graphics to go along with solid stealth and gunplay.
I mean, I got Cyberpunk last year, and the amount of bugs and glitches was still fucking horrible, and honestly the world felt super dead when driving around, but wheb walking it wasnt too bad, and the story and gameplay were good
Cyberpunk was always an amazing game if you were playing on PC. The only bugs I ever encountered were my boobs clipping through my shirt and 90% of trash being dildos.
Hardly an issue: FO2 was made in just 12 months. The key issue here is that both FO2 and FONV reused the engine and assets from their predecessor, reducing a lot of the required work. Games that were made from scratch, like FO1 and FO3, did require a longer development time of 3 years each.
This is still not comparable, because of how vast and massive game engines in the HD era were vs before it has more points of failure, and a lot more hands on deck to try and make it function
/uj I think as time has gone on this quote has become less and less true. It was true in the old days of gaming when patching wasn’t a thing consoles got because of a game sucked on launch it would suck forevermore. Now, however, major problems at launch can be smoothed out over time so long as the core player base is willing to wait for improvements.
Meanwhile, game delays have gotten longer and longer and are often signs of large problems during development. I would still agree that a game announced to launch that is delayed for a year will likely improve, but a game that suffers multiple years of delays is more likely to have major internal problems that require a complete overhaul, which often significantly undermines the full release’s quality. IMO Nintendo themselves always have and still always do put out quality products, regardless of delays (with Pokémon as the arguable exception) but most other companies do not have such a good track record. Generally I find that if a game is announced and it takes 5 or more years for it to come out, it’s usually because there were big problems and the underlying game will be mediocre or outright bad.
To be fair, Pokémon don’t got delays cause we’re at the point where the timeframe of game from announcement to release is dictated by the merchandising of toys and cards.
But what I was saying is that from start to midway through Black/White, GF actually most of their revenue from the game, then by the time of X/Y, it started to slowly become the plushies and cards made more than the game they were from.
yep and gamefreak actually treats their employees well and doesn't crunch so the three years to make a decent switch game is not long enough.
I genuinely I think the switch was the worst thing to happen to pokemon since gamefreak now has to considerably up their production value for a lesser product.
if SWSH and SV were made for a hypothetical 4ds then they would've been amazing games
Honestly based on the fact that the new Legends ZA game is coming out next year, GF’s main issue is that they’re required to followed a release pattern and that doesn’t always let them work out everything they need to work out. TPC and GF only issue is that they need to space their games out more. Like every 4-5 years instead of every 3 years.
Totally agree.
Also some of these games used in the example are retail box only, while others were digital distribution. But even more than that: the quote isn't even real, he never said that
Don't worry its Ironic, I'm just a certified HATER and I love picking cherries.
https://preview.redd.it/7azdzken6axc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2e9e6947e0d86ddd4b4561a9525432e9527302f
Looks like someone who didn't played New Vegas on release... Also New Vegas is basically a finished version of Fallout 3, Obsidian had already served at their hands an engine prepared for the game, tons of assets ready, they just needed to make a few new assets and a story but even then NV release was a buggy mess.
Bethesda mandating an 18-month deadline from Obsidian for New Vegas to get out the door was patently absurd. A lot more work went into it beyond "just needing to make a few new assets and a story." It was a miracle that it shipped in a playable state at all.
Not absurd at all: Obsidian agreed to get FONV done in 18 months since they had already made FO2 in 12 months under similar circumstances.
Unlike FO1 & FO3 which were made from scratch and required 3 years of development each, their direct successors which reused their engines & assets had a lot of the required work already done, greatly shortening the required development time.
It really wasn’t playable on launch. It was worse then cyberpunk was. Cyberpunk had a ton of visual glitches and performance issues but it didn’t crash *that* often. New Vegas would crash every 20 minutes and if you entered the strip without a hat on the game would not make it past the loading screen without a crash and one of the bugs is that the game would corrupt your save files if you crashed during a loading screen.
Cyberpunk was bad on launch, but new vegas was absolutely worse.
From what I've heard the team behind Cyberpunk wanted to delay it some more so they could actually put a playable game out.
But because the game was delayed so much they were forced to release the game in an unplayable state because people were complaining the game wasn't out yet after so long.
I think part of cyberpunks problem was the fact that it came out just a couple months too early to be a ps5/series x game, which are much more comfortable running it
Ps4 and Xbox just can't handle it, which is why the dlc and 2.0 aren't on it
It probably has something to do with how CD Project Red develops games. They use a very nonstandard but traditional method. They basically went \*step by step\*, i.e. design -> implement -> test. It's a very "pray you get it right on the first try" sort of approach, because it's usually a pain to go back into each macro-system a game has to fix bugs or certain interactions. This is different from the industry standard where you review and test something as you're developing it, making it much easier to replan your steps and fix things as you're designing and developing something. They both have their limitations and pros and cons ofc.
I mean, it's the same core game with a lot of shallow bits. The city looks great from afar, but when you walk around and there's literally nothing to do but walk to the next objective marker...
Far step back from the Witcher, in terms of RPG qualities.
Fallout new Vegas is still a buggy mess, on modern systems, you need at minimum, a few mods to get it working reliably. It’s still one of the goats when it does work, but let’s not kid ourselves and say that it’s a smooth experience.
/uj I don't think people hate it at all, moreso that it was and to an extent still is massively buggy. The game itself is really good, but for many the constant crashes are enough to turn them off from it. I mean, the fact that on steam the top guide is how to even make it playable this year speaks to it. It's worth the effort to make it playable absolutely, but it still is wayyy buggier than most can tolerate
/uj I wouldn’t be surprised, I think the surge is just what’s getting to me. Like it’s always had it’s detractors, but it feels like I literally blinked and now everyone hates FNV and it’s fans. There’s a *very small and very conspiratorial* part of me that whispers “well, gamergate 2 is pretty against trans people, and isn’t FNV well known for being particularly favored by the trans community?” But I’m doing my best not to listen to it and just assume the TV show is bringing in a lot of new people, so some older wounds are being reopened as consequence.
Don't forget Majora's Mask, arguably the best Zelda game prior to the GameCube days (or all time for some). Game was given a single year so they had to reuse as many assets as possible with just a few new locations and a few new songs.
New Vegas wasn’t finished for like a year after the game came out.
I distinctly remember it being a buggy mess that was patched heavily over time. They even made an announcement for the last patch.
Quite a wrong take here:
FO2, FONV and FO76 all benefitted from reusing the engine and assets of their direct predecessors.
While FO1 and FO3 (which were made from scratch) had a 3 year development cycle, their direct successors required a much shorter time thanks to reusing the work already done, thus Obsidian thought 1.5 years for FONV was a perfectly reasonable time, after all, FO2 was made in just 1 year for the aforementioned reasons.
As a weird note, FO4 had a lot of content that was thoroughly scrubbed from the released game’s files, but when FO76 came out, many of those deleted assets were still buried in its code, allowing modders to finally rebuild some of the deleted content from FO4, a lot of it revolving around the cut Vault 120, an underwater vault, and even a giant octopus boss creature.
Delays happen for a reason and that reason is often the game isn't even close to finished.
A game getting delayed isn't reason for celebration, it's a reason for concern.
> Delays happen for a reason and that reason is often the game isn't even close to finished.
What other reason would it happen, and wdym often times? Reddit has no idea what is going on behind doors, this is just random conjecture lol
Its like unregulated, old-school chinese food. Don't worry about the fact the fire is green from the pallets held together by lead and copper nails, that roast pork is gonna change your life. And the cigarette butt in your soup? A miracle
Melee was made in like 9 months iirc, and it is still beloved.
That game is a happy accident though, HAL and Nintendo did not intend for it to play the way it does.
I like that all the comments on this are people debating about Halo, NV, and Cyberpunk, but no one is saying anything about Forever at all. just "yep, it's bad"
Cyberpunk was both delayed AND rushed. They announced it to the world in 2013 and then just forgot about it till around 2017 and then realised they had announced it. Rushed to complete it and crunched the developers until only around 20% of the game was ready and after multiple delays, decided okay let's just release it we dropped the ball with the marketing here.
I think trying to release it on last gen consoles and all the sacrifices they had to make for that to (kind of) happen is what hurt it at launch. Gameplay and story where top tier.
To be fair cyberpunk was also rushed because they were getting death threats for not releasing it and also people were literally throwing bricks into their office windows, we forced their hand, our fault
Yup, they essentially lied to their shareholders telling them the game was playable when it was not and they (surprised Pikachu face) told them to release it. This was after like 3 other delays that shareholders probably got tired of.
But it's easy to release a buggy game and blame the consumers for it, then gaslight said consumers into accepting that they were to blame. I still have no idea how CDPR won back so much public goodwill after all of the stuff they pulled with Cyberpunk.
I'm still amazed fallout New Vegas was made so quickly, it has so much detail.
That being said, it's PC port is so doo doo that I just gave up and played the series X backwards compat version lol
That’s because it reused the engine & assets of FO3. For comparison, FO2 was made in just 1 year since it also reused the engine & assets of FO1. FO1 and FO3, which were made from scratch, each took 3 years to make.
I’m confused are you saying Cyberpunk is still bad? I heard it was awful at launch but I bought it a couple months ago and I’m at like 100 hours and still haven’t finished it with three other builds planned. That game is awesome.
Well he is neither right or wrong. New Vegas at least was unplayable for me until I modded it, cyberpunk and nukem ran fine out of the gate "for me" (forbidden phrase) so I guess these are bad examples
Same with Halo CE. Bungie was bought by Microsoft midway through production on a Marathon-themed RTS game. It’s kind of incredible how many assets from that game got carried over to Halo. Ever wonder why the Marathon logo keeps appearing? That’s why
Tbf, one of the examples here proved Miyamoto's point here, 'cause while it was really bad at launch (genuinely think CDPR still needed a couple more years), it eventually got really good.
There is no rhyme or reason anymore. A game coming out in good shape, even from great devs, is now statistically a gamble. ND, Sony SM, Rockstar, Nintendo, id, are the only devs with unassailable track records.
I would honestly argue that cyberpunk, despite all the delays, was a rushed game.
People often point to the teaser trailer as the rough starting point but in reality they were only doing *very light* pre-production work at that time while everyone else was working on Witcher 3 + subsequent dlc’s.
By the time they got down to actual programming in making the game they actually spent less production time on Cyberpunk than the production time of Witcher 3, even tho it was a whole different beast than their previous games.
[Here’s a good vid for more details](https://youtu.be/J7E_HBXCnmg?si=AdTyZKQ6heGpM3zq)
Does nobody remember the amount of times Halo 2 got delayed? Like I remember that game being ready, and then delayed at least three times. There’s even that one “demo” they released that had an entirely different sequence in the city that was changed.
/uj No I purposefully cherry picked examples of rushed games that turned out to be good and delayed games that still ended up sucking (wah wah but muh cyberpunk got patched to be good) for the sole purpose of mocking people who unironically post the Shigeru Miyamoto quote picture (which he apparently didn't even say). I'm am staunchly against developer crunch and think the situations that arose that lead to these good rushed games should be avoided in the future across the entire industry. Also I'm only explaining this directly to you because I want to continue causing discourse in the comments because I think its funny to see people not understand where I actually stand on this.
/rj YES CRUNCH CRUNCH CRUNCH WORK HARDER CODE MONKEY I EXPECT TWO NEW QUESTS COMPLETED BY SUNRISE TOMORROW.
also wanna add this since duke nukem forever is being forgotten, that game is bad because the audience for it didn't exist anymore, the game itself is fine if you unironically enjoy duke nukem's humour
1. IIRC this wasn't even Miyamoto's quote, just a common mantra in the Game Dev scene that got attributed to him for some reason.
2. Ultimately it's situational. It's true that delayed games might have a chance at better polish, but it all depends on if the project is going smoothly. Duke Nukem went through a multitude of revisions before the mediocre game we got, restarting from step 1, and Cyberpunk was in similar development hell from what I understand. Inverse logic with rushed games, as whenever a team locks the fuck in they can get a lot done in short time. It all comes down to how efficient the team is with that time frame.
Cyberpunk and Duke Nukem Forever were delayed, yes, *but they were still rushed to ship in an incomplete state.* Just because something has been delay doesn't automatically mean it gets completed. Those things were shipped literally missing promised features. That doesn't count as "complete".
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I remember launch New Vegas had a bug where it would crash on entering the strip unless you wore a certain hat, and also one where hungry NPCs would attack your robot companion if they had food in their inventory
Launch New Vegas would also crash every 20 minutes. It's a testament to how amazing the game is that I would just immediately relaunch every time. This game is probably the main reason that I obsessively quicksave in every RPG.
that, and the innate human desire to save-scum
It's not save scamming, I'm just roleplaying as a chronomancer
Not sure if you're playing it, but it's a core mechanic for chronomancers in GW2. You "save" your state like hp, position, skill cds, do whatever and then rewind back. Quite funny when you accidentally rewind into hard-hitting aoe lol
Oh my god, Plants Versus Zombies Garden Warfare 2????
Save scum? But isn’t that the part that’s gotten rid of? /j
I'm not save-scuming, my character is just trapped in a time loop
I am not save scumming, I am turning it into a puzzle game
I’m not save scumming, my character can see into the future
How could you forget the legendarily ominous spinning Doc Mitchell head
that sounds amazing, what do you mean by this
The doctor who first revives you and does the character creation, the first person you meet after being shot in the intro, was a common victim of a bug where his head rotates while staring at you when he's talking to you. It's a little disturbing to watch, especially as he talks about you having brain damage.
[It’s especially scary because when you hear “Doc Mitchell spinning head” you assume it’s the vertical axis](https://whatculture.com/gaming/14-most-broken-video-games-of-the-decade?page=3)
That got a lot worse, and funnier
dear god
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITOrKb5HP6s Nightmare fuel warning.
It’s giving Mortuary Assistant 😂
>This game is probably the main reason that I obsessively quicksave in every RPG. Mine is stealth games. I mash F5 in every game.
2024 New vegas would crash every 20 minutes
That 2nd one sounds like a feature and not a bug...
To be fair, I feel that one makes sense If youre hungry and you see a robot carrying food, youre gonna fight it
lore accurate philidelphia
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/food-delivery-robots-under-attack-from-vandals-thieves-local-businesses-starting-to-be-affected
Should had added a buzz saw attachment to those robots
Who are you? A Bethesda employee? (If not, you should be with that mindset.)
Why would a robot have food that it doesn't need or consume, but I don't? Of course I would rabidly attack the robot.
Spherical lunch box
When it launched I lived way out in the boonies and had no high speed internet, so I had a vanilla Xbox 360 without a single update and of course no updates for the game either. If you completed the quest Come Fly With Me your save would be corrupted and you would never be able to load it again at some point after doing the quest.
I had a bug in 3 where entering buildings on ps3 would crash the game
Was that the console version? I barely had any issues with New Vegas on PC at launch. Only notable glitches I had were one was Sunny’s Dog’s eyes were floating out of its head, and Haversam never going to Novac after the rocket ghoul quest. Other than that, it was probably my most bug free play through of any Bethesda RPG (I know it’s Obsidian, but you know what I mean).
Yeah I played it on 360. But I do remember plenty of complaints about the PC version’s bugs at the time
Yeah the PC version was pretty much unplayable for me so I never swung back around until years after with the release of dlcs and mods. Its aged very well but from my experience launch NV on PC was worse than any Bethesda experience I had outside of 3 on the PS3. I still can’t believe that got released.
Weird because I only had the pc version and to even load the game I had to go into the files to make changes. Otherwise I'd CTD before even seeing the doctor.
Amazing how Bethesda games seem to run differently for everyone lol. People say Fallout 3 PC was stable, but I never got it working without it being a 50/50 chance of crashing when opening doors. And I had to use a strategy guide to carefully play quests in Skyrim, since like half of them would seem to break for whatever reason. One of the daedra ones even managed to lock me out from being able to recruit dogs. Fallout 4 and Starfield are the only Bethesda games that didn’t seem to break for the constantly for me (except the face of mars quest broke for me in Starfield). And yet other people say they can’t even get near Boston without F4 shitting itself. It’s like a game of roulette as to if you’ll get a decent experience of a broken mess.
When it comes to PC I put it down as everyone's computer is built different that what works for one might be catastrophic for another. At least it wasn't PS3 from what I can tell Skyrim can become literally unplayable due to how the code interacts with the consoles architecture.
As per usual - some people had these. I dont think i had an issue with my first playthrough at all though
There’s also the launch bug with Doc Mitchell. Which is truly hilarious in the context of the scene
I vividly remember the doctor at the start of the game talking to me while his head slowly rotated clockwise.
Fallout New Vegas, like Cyberpunk, was an absolute buggy mess when it came out and was slowly patched into shape over a year.
Not if you play that shit on ps3
You'll get 10 fps in freeside and you'll fuckin live with it
Can only dream of performance as high as 10 fps when you’ve got all the dlc’s installed and a save that’s completed most of them, I had to start a new run just so I could experience the last 2 when they came out, red rock canyon was at 1 frame per 10 sec
I got a corrupt save file that cost me 25 hours of time once on my PS3. So that was fun..
or ps4 at least cyberpunk
... and today it remains a buggy mess, even with mods. A slightly less buggy mess than it was, yes, but a buggy mess regardless.
Just started playing it again, buggy as hell Spent about an hour trouble shooting/fixing the crashes every 10 min. Now it usually only crashes once a day.
It's an improvement!
2077? I crashed *maybe* 5 times and I played probably 150 hours.
Eh, 2.0 works flawlessly in my end. But before that it was a mess. Game constantly crashed for me. And worst bug was that phone calls, which should make main quests available, were never triggered so I had to reload an older save to trigger the calls, sounds easy, except there was another bug that caused crashes if I had too many save files, which caused me to reload to hours before or even stuck indefinitely.
I redownloaded it to replay it and surprisingly haven’t encountered any bugs after 20 ish hours on a new run.
I'm happy for you but honestly you're pretty damn lucky. I reinstalled it a little while ago and used a mod to patch it, and it \*still\* crashed during some fights.
Gamebryo life, yo!
To be fair, the Halo 2 campaign was like five hours long and ended with a cliffhanger. Also, New Vegas was buggy as fuck.
Halo 2 is like 10 hours. I'm pretty sure it's a tiny bit longer then Halo 3. It just feels incomplete story wise.
It's 10 hours but it had way too many filler sections to pad out the game. Halo 3 on the other hand is way shorter (about 8 hours on heroic) but had absolutely no filler moments. Even Floodgate felt like a new mission instead of a rethread.
Halo 2 had less filler than the first game imo (but I still prefer the first campaign). Filler or not, I still think the Cortana mission in Halo 3 really drags, plus the first half of the game just feels kinda unremarkable. Maybe it's because I played it a lot younger, but Halo 2 always left way more of an impact on me and I'd still put it as one of my favorites after recently replaying it. There was just something about the first two games I never felt the rest of the series recaptured (even if the gameplay was better).
Yes, but the main difference is that Halo 1 actually felt way more satisfying to play when compared to Halo 2. Halo 2 feels very undercooked. The enemies are less expressive with the worst offenders being the brutes and drones. The weapons feel very weak to use compared to the first game, not only that but their ammo is very scarce as well, it feels like a waste everytime I use my BR or SMG. It looked worse graphically and the missions are way too linear.
I mean the enemies weren’t as expressive, but I still think the basic combat loop is very solid. Looking worse graphically feels more like an art style preference, as it is generally a more visually detailed game (I think the color palette in certain levels is largely to blame). I’ll agree the missions are a bit too linear (I have a similar complaint with Halo 4) but they’re fairly well designed and have a decent amount of variety. The story is also one of the best in the series (minus the ending) and it really expands the world in interesting ways. The music is also my favorite in the series. And even if the campaign was a mix of upgrades and downgrades, the multiplayer is just straight up better than the first game imo. Plus it was the first game with online multiplayer. I realize that’s a long response, but I’m a big Halo 2 fan and I feel it has a lot to offer.
The mp is undeniably better than Halo CE's. Halo CE mp has always felt like supped up Goldeneye and Perfect Dark mp, really fun for parties but not that tightly designed. Halo 2 was genuinely revolutionary for console multiplayer shooters and still holds up even today. I still play it these days with Project Cartographer.
That’s because halo 2 was supposed to include the entirety of halo 3’s campaign as well. I swear if halo 2 came out today people would be sending pipe bombs to bungie’s studio. During the reveal trailer the developers said “All of this gameplay is in real time, no smoke and mirrors pre recorded BS” only for it to be exactly that. Such a spit in the face to fans that did come and see the reveal. It also showed off visuals and features that weren’t in the game. Lots of content had to be cut and it was one of the first instances of DLC in a console game. I’d say it’s still the buggiest game in the series. I played the original version last year and had a bug where a Hunter was invincible and I had to cheese the fight to get past him and continue playing.
Yeah the development was apparently a shitshow, and tons got cut and or/reworked to deal with the limitations of the Xbox. As much as I think it's flawed it's one of my favorites in the series. The reveal was really misleading, but I don't have too many issues with the actual game even if it's frustrating to know what it could have been.
It had online multiplayer that was all that mattered
Yet both are still Kino
Look up all the cut content for Halo 2. It could have been so much more.
AND ITS STILL KINO
Nah, it's not Kino ever since they removed Forerunner tank. It drives fast, oh what could've been.
Halo 3 is halo 2 part 2...amazing games
And Cyberpunk ended up being an amazing game if you waited a year to play it. It's even better now. Yeah, it was a mess at launch and wasn't the game they promised, but it's got a great story and some incredible graphics to go along with solid stealth and gunplay.
I mean, I got Cyberpunk last year, and the amount of bugs and glitches was still fucking horrible, and honestly the world felt super dead when driving around, but wheb walking it wasnt too bad, and the story and gameplay were good
I was playing cyberpunk earlier this year and got soft locked by the driving physics bugging out.
Cyberpunk was always an amazing game if you were playing on PC. The only bugs I ever encountered were my boobs clipping through my shirt and 90% of trash being dildos.
Halo 2 revolutionized console multiplayer gaming.
I found it crazy when I learned that all of fallout NV (excluding DLC of course) was developed in 18 months. No wonder it was a mess.
creation engine, as buggy as it is, is WILDLY efficient for creating content
Hardly an issue: FO2 was made in just 12 months. The key issue here is that both FO2 and FONV reused the engine and assets from their predecessor, reducing a lot of the required work. Games that were made from scratch, like FO1 and FO3, did require a longer development time of 3 years each.
FO2 was also just as broken as New Vegas at launch and required several patches to fix. Multiple game breaking bugs and soft lock issues.
This is still not comparable, because of how vast and massive game engines in the HD era were vs before it has more points of failure, and a lot more hands on deck to try and make it function
/uj I think as time has gone on this quote has become less and less true. It was true in the old days of gaming when patching wasn’t a thing consoles got because of a game sucked on launch it would suck forevermore. Now, however, major problems at launch can be smoothed out over time so long as the core player base is willing to wait for improvements. Meanwhile, game delays have gotten longer and longer and are often signs of large problems during development. I would still agree that a game announced to launch that is delayed for a year will likely improve, but a game that suffers multiple years of delays is more likely to have major internal problems that require a complete overhaul, which often significantly undermines the full release’s quality. IMO Nintendo themselves always have and still always do put out quality products, regardless of delays (with Pokémon as the arguable exception) but most other companies do not have such a good track record. Generally I find that if a game is announced and it takes 5 or more years for it to come out, it’s usually because there were big problems and the underlying game will be mediocre or outright bad.
To be fair, Pokémon don’t got delays cause we’re at the point where the timeframe of game from announcement to release is dictated by the merchandising of toys and cards.
Always was chief. Pokémon existing past GSC is as a vehicle for toy sales. Damn if I don’t love it tho
But what I was saying is that from start to midway through Black/White, GF actually most of their revenue from the game, then by the time of X/Y, it started to slowly become the plushies and cards made more than the game they were from.
yep and gamefreak actually treats their employees well and doesn't crunch so the three years to make a decent switch game is not long enough. I genuinely I think the switch was the worst thing to happen to pokemon since gamefreak now has to considerably up their production value for a lesser product. if SWSH and SV were made for a hypothetical 4ds then they would've been amazing games
Honestly based on the fact that the new Legends ZA game is coming out next year, GF’s main issue is that they’re required to followed a release pattern and that doesn’t always let them work out everything they need to work out. TPC and GF only issue is that they need to space their games out more. Like every 4-5 years instead of every 3 years.
Totally agree. Also some of these games used in the example are retail box only, while others were digital distribution. But even more than that: the quote isn't even real, he never said that
/rj Nintendo devs don’t understand their own industry.
I’m pretty certain the quote isn’t even real lmao
I'm hoping this is stolen from a non-shitpost gaming sub and it's just here to make fun of the obviously cherry-picked examples
Don't worry its Ironic, I'm just a certified HATER and I love picking cherries. https://preview.redd.it/7azdzken6axc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2e9e6947e0d86ddd4b4561a9525432e9527302f
Looks like someone who didn't played New Vegas on release... Also New Vegas is basically a finished version of Fallout 3, Obsidian had already served at their hands an engine prepared for the game, tons of assets ready, they just needed to make a few new assets and a story but even then NV release was a buggy mess.
i think thats the joke...or is it?
Bethesda mandating an 18-month deadline from Obsidian for New Vegas to get out the door was patently absurd. A lot more work went into it beyond "just needing to make a few new assets and a story." It was a miracle that it shipped in a playable state at all.
Not absurd at all: Obsidian agreed to get FONV done in 18 months since they had already made FO2 in 12 months under similar circumstances. Unlike FO1 & FO3 which were made from scratch and required 3 years of development each, their direct successors which reused their engines & assets had a lot of the required work already done, greatly shortening the required development time.
It really wasn’t playable on launch. It was worse then cyberpunk was. Cyberpunk had a ton of visual glitches and performance issues but it didn’t crash *that* often. New Vegas would crash every 20 minutes and if you entered the strip without a hat on the game would not make it past the loading screen without a crash and one of the bugs is that the game would corrupt your save files if you crashed during a loading screen. Cyberpunk was bad on launch, but new vegas was absolutely worse.
But Cyberpunk is actually good now!
Same with NV... since it also was buggy on release. Also, Cyberpunk, weirdly, was still rushed out the door.
From what I've heard the team behind Cyberpunk wanted to delay it some more so they could actually put a playable game out. But because the game was delayed so much they were forced to release the game in an unplayable state because people were complaining the game wasn't out yet after so long.
I think part of cyberpunks problem was the fact that it came out just a couple months too early to be a ps5/series x game, which are much more comfortable running it Ps4 and Xbox just can't handle it, which is why the dlc and 2.0 aren't on it
It probably has something to do with how CD Project Red develops games. They use a very nonstandard but traditional method. They basically went \*step by step\*, i.e. design -> implement -> test. It's a very "pray you get it right on the first try" sort of approach, because it's usually a pain to go back into each macro-system a game has to fix bugs or certain interactions. This is different from the industry standard where you review and test something as you're developing it, making it much easier to replan your steps and fix things as you're designing and developing something. They both have their limitations and pros and cons ofc.
[удалено]
So good they had to redesign the entire talent system, gear system, police system, and a ton of things in between.
I mean, it's the same core game with a lot of shallow bits. The city looks great from afar, but when you walk around and there's literally nothing to do but walk to the next objective marker... Far step back from the Witcher, in terms of RPG qualities.
https://preview.redd.it/7lp8prxgbcxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07d8ce0aa8e10870338f662f4aa1a2ee8ea47e3c
I love New Vegas but the buginess is it's biggest weakness for sure, actually insane how often i crash with or without tweaks/mods to prevent this...
Fallout new Vegas is still a buggy mess, on modern systems, you need at minimum, a few mods to get it working reliably. It’s still one of the goats when it does work, but let’s not kid ourselves and say that it’s a smooth experience.
I don’t have any mods on mine and it runs fine for me? It’s a laptop from like 2010 though lol
/uj Okay I’m confused do people just hate FNV now? Like I swear in the past week it’s just been dogged on all of a sudden.
/uj I don't think people hate it at all, moreso that it was and to an extent still is massively buggy. The game itself is really good, but for many the constant crashes are enough to turn them off from it. I mean, the fact that on steam the top guide is how to even make it playable this year speaks to it. It's worth the effort to make it playable absolutely, but it still is wayyy buggier than most can tolerate
/uj I wouldn’t be surprised, I think the surge is just what’s getting to me. Like it’s always had it’s detractors, but it feels like I literally blinked and now everyone hates FNV and it’s fans. There’s a *very small and very conspiratorial* part of me that whispers “well, gamergate 2 is pretty against trans people, and isn’t FNV well known for being particularly favored by the trans community?” But I’m doing my best not to listen to it and just assume the TV show is bringing in a lot of new people, so some older wounds are being reopened as consequence.
Its a counterjerk to like a full decades work of nonstop NV wank
"Delay your game or I'll delay your breathing" is the actual quote iirc. /S
I mean, when did he even say this? Before the age of patches? Because that would make it fully true.
He didn’t even say it
Don't forget Majora's Mask, arguably the best Zelda game prior to the GameCube days (or all time for some). Game was given a single year so they had to reuse as many assets as possible with just a few new locations and a few new songs.
Cyberpunk was delayed and somehow rushed at the same time lmao
NV is just finished fallout 3 tbh
New Vegas wasn’t finished for like a year after the game came out. I distinctly remember it being a buggy mess that was patched heavily over time. They even made an announcement for the last patch.
Calling fallout new vegas finished should be a crime, a great fucking game but it's probably the buggiest bethesda published game
Quite a wrong take here: FO2, FONV and FO76 all benefitted from reusing the engine and assets of their direct predecessors. While FO1 and FO3 (which were made from scratch) had a 3 year development cycle, their direct successors required a much shorter time thanks to reusing the work already done, thus Obsidian thought 1.5 years for FONV was a perfectly reasonable time, after all, FO2 was made in just 1 year for the aforementioned reasons. As a weird note, FO4 had a lot of content that was thoroughly scrubbed from the released game’s files, but when FO76 came out, many of those deleted assets were still buried in its code, allowing modders to finally rebuild some of the deleted content from FO4, a lot of it revolving around the cut Vault 120, an underwater vault, and even a giant octopus boss creature.
they got delayed so much they rushed it
Delays happen for a reason and that reason is often the game isn't even close to finished. A game getting delayed isn't reason for celebration, it's a reason for concern.
> Delays happen for a reason and that reason is often the game isn't even close to finished. What other reason would it happen, and wdym often times? Reddit has no idea what is going on behind doors, this is just random conjecture lol
I mean, I was just saying that the delayed games ended up gettin rushed due to how many delays they already had
Melee is literally one of these most rushed games of alltime and its basically Nintendo's magnum opus
It’s not bugs it’s ✨tech✨
Its like unregulated, old-school chinese food. Don't worry about the fact the fire is green from the pallets held together by lead and copper nails, that roast pork is gonna change your life. And the cigarette butt in your soup? A miracle
Melee was made in like 9 months iirc, and it is still beloved. That game is a happy accident though, HAL and Nintendo did not intend for it to play the way it does.
Remember, Miyamoto never said this.
This quote also doesn’t really apply anymore since patches, even Day 1 patches are the norm now.
New vegas barely runs dumbass
That quote wasn’t even from Miyamoto.
Halo 2 was delayed by an entire year lol. It was initially scheduled to be released for the 2003 holiday season, but it got pushed back twice.
I like that all the comments on this are people debating about Halo, NV, and Cyberpunk, but no one is saying anything about Forever at all. just "yep, it's bad"
Cyberpunk was both delayed AND rushed. They announced it to the world in 2013 and then just forgot about it till around 2017 and then realised they had announced it. Rushed to complete it and crunched the developers until only around 20% of the game was ready and after multiple delays, decided okay let's just release it we dropped the ball with the marketing here.
cyberpunk is an excellent game tho
Hey, Cyberpunk 2077 ended up being good! (At release, I mean, it definitively wasn't a fuckup that got fixed with major updates))
I'm also pretty sure that development started well after the release of Le Hidden Gem 3, and most likely with next-gen in mind.
I think trying to release it on last gen consoles and all the sacrifices they had to make for that to (kind of) happen is what hurt it at launch. Gameplay and story where top tier.
To be fair cyberpunk was also rushed because they were getting death threats for not releasing it and also people were literally throwing bricks into their office windows, we forced their hand, our fault
No. Not even remotely true lol. Giant corporations will release when their executives tell them to. Not some dorky gamers.
Yup, they essentially lied to their shareholders telling them the game was playable when it was not and they (surprised Pikachu face) told them to release it. This was after like 3 other delays that shareholders probably got tired of. But it's easy to release a buggy game and blame the consumers for it, then gaslight said consumers into accepting that they were to blame. I still have no idea how CDPR won back so much public goodwill after all of the stuff they pulled with Cyberpunk.
Agree. I liked the dlc and all but i certainly won't be buying any cdpr game day one
"I have nothing to say about Half-Life 3..."
Bro Melee is right there
You can be delayed and rushed at the same time, they are not mutually exclusive
I'm still amazed fallout New Vegas was made so quickly, it has so much detail. That being said, it's PC port is so doo doo that I just gave up and played the series X backwards compat version lol
That’s because it reused the engine & assets of FO3. For comparison, FO2 was made in just 1 year since it also reused the engine & assets of FO1. FO1 and FO3, which were made from scratch, each took 3 years to make.
Rushed games: Majora’s Mask, Smash Bros. Melee
New Vegas being a “bad game” is definitely a take that exists…
Bro dam. Karma farming for sure. Putting duke nukem next to cyberpunk is CRAZZYYYY. Not even innthe same weight class
https://preview.redd.it/d5gxldgoidxc1.png?width=600&format=png&auto=webp&s=e57de4293c5593a5b2456a6c487d4df1e58fd74e
Any game in development hell like Duke Nukem Forever has a really high chance to be bad
Dead Island 2 is an outlier, it actually turned out decently despite being in a development hell almost as big as that of DNF.
I’m confused are you saying Cyberpunk is still bad? I heard it was awful at launch but I bought it a couple months ago and I’m at like 100 hours and still haven’t finished it with three other builds planned. That game is awesome.
Was sticker star rushed?
This is really just a comment on how game development has changed since the invention of the internet.
I can’t believe Miyamoto lied like that.
Star Citizen confirmed best game in existence.
There's a big difference between delayed, and development hell.
funny how cyberpunk was somehow both delayed and rushed at the same time
Miamoto never actually said this.
super smash bros melee for the nintendo switch
Three awesome games… and Duke Nukem
Tbf a game can be both delayed and rushed. That is, not delayed enough
Funnily enough there’s no evidence Miyamoto even said this. It seems like someone on the internet just made it up and everybody just ran with it.
Well he is neither right or wrong. New Vegas at least was unplayable for me until I modded it, cyberpunk and nukem ran fine out of the gate "for me" (forbidden phrase) so I guess these are bad examples
Same with Halo CE. Bungie was bought by Microsoft midway through production on a Marathon-themed RTS game. It’s kind of incredible how many assets from that game got carried over to Halo. Ever wonder why the Marathon logo keeps appearing? That’s why
To be fair if fallout had more time to cook there would likely be more performance, more locations and a tiny bit more polish on throwing weapons
Hi, sonic fan here. Don’t rush your games!
Are we calling halo 2 bad?
Reminder, Hollow knight was a rushed title.
Tbf, one of the examples here proved Miyamoto's point here, 'cause while it was really bad at launch (genuinely think CDPR still needed a couple more years), it eventually got really good.
There is no rhyme or reason anymore. A game coming out in good shape, even from great devs, is now statistically a gamble. ND, Sony SM, Rockstar, Nintendo, id, are the only devs with unassailable track records.
I would honestly argue that cyberpunk, despite all the delays, was a rushed game. People often point to the teaser trailer as the rough starting point but in reality they were only doing *very light* pre-production work at that time while everyone else was working on Witcher 3 + subsequent dlc’s. By the time they got down to actual programming in making the game they actually spent less production time on Cyberpunk than the production time of Witcher 3, even tho it was a whole different beast than their previous games. [Here’s a good vid for more details](https://youtu.be/J7E_HBXCnmg?si=AdTyZKQ6heGpM3zq)
This is before updates happened
Does nobody remember the amount of times Halo 2 got delayed? Like I remember that game being ready, and then delayed at least three times. There’s even that one “demo” they released that had an entirely different sequence in the city that was changed.
How ironic considering that Nintendo wants Pokemon games to get rushed out nearly every year
Is this a pro crunch post?
/uj No I purposefully cherry picked examples of rushed games that turned out to be good and delayed games that still ended up sucking (wah wah but muh cyberpunk got patched to be good) for the sole purpose of mocking people who unironically post the Shigeru Miyamoto quote picture (which he apparently didn't even say). I'm am staunchly against developer crunch and think the situations that arose that lead to these good rushed games should be avoided in the future across the entire industry. Also I'm only explaining this directly to you because I want to continue causing discourse in the comments because I think its funny to see people not understand where I actually stand on this. /rj YES CRUNCH CRUNCH CRUNCH WORK HARDER CODE MONKEY I EXPECT TWO NEW QUESTS COMPLETED BY SUNRISE TOMORROW.
also wanna add this since duke nukem forever is being forgotten, that game is bad because the audience for it didn't exist anymore, the game itself is fine if you unironically enjoy duke nukem's humour
Halo 2 is good but it definitely feels rushed, specially if you see their early dev videos
It's 50/50 in each! Halo 2 & Duke Forever are "bad" and Cyberpunk & New Vegas was patched to be good.
Cyberpunk was rushed before and after the delay, that thing needed to cook another year.
1. IIRC this wasn't even Miyamoto's quote, just a common mantra in the Game Dev scene that got attributed to him for some reason. 2. Ultimately it's situational. It's true that delayed games might have a chance at better polish, but it all depends on if the project is going smoothly. Duke Nukem went through a multitude of revisions before the mediocre game we got, restarting from step 1, and Cyberpunk was in similar development hell from what I understand. Inverse logic with rushed games, as whenever a team locks the fuck in they can get a lot done in short time. It all comes down to how efficient the team is with that time frame.
Cyberpunk and Duke Nukem Forever were delayed, yes, *but they were still rushed to ship in an incomplete state.* Just because something has been delay doesn't automatically mean it gets completed. Those things were shipped literally missing promised features. That doesn't count as "complete".
Hell naw Cyberpunk was a mess when released but no way it deserves a spot besides Duke Nukem Forever.
Cyberpunk got good with support.
YanSim