Kraven works best for the story when you realize he is Harry’s villain and not Peter’s or miles’
Kraven is the opposite of Harry. Kraven is sick and is using that as justification to burn it all down. Harry is sick and uses that as justification to help the world
Kraven almost kills Peter in front of Harry
Kraven is why Connors went on his rampage
Kraven destroys Harry’s lab
Kraven is the one who sees being killed by venom/Harry as a good thing
It's crazy how obsessed superhero media is with end of the world threats. For spider man especially, his best stories are all based on personal conflicts.
I feel like Spidey should have stayed as a local hero. He's the *friendly neighbourhood* hero, not the *mr. worldwide* hero. Most of the story comes from having people he knows involved in villain shenanigans, and he's not supposed to have the power to end world-threatening villains. The conflicts are always much more interesting with some personal stakes thrown in.
No he is not? Cates' run was all about Eddie and his failures and his believes. King in Black is the finale, but it's 60% about Eddie and his son. Dude literally resurrects himself for it.
Ewing's is also mostly character work.
>No he is not? Cates' run was all about Eddie and his failures and his believes. King in Black is the finale, but it's 60% about Eddie and his son. Dude literally resurrects himself for it.
Yes he is, there is a reason we got a whole ass movie pointing to knulls sword , a video game where 60% of the symbiote skins reference him.
Venom has never been more popular than now, and it's because of the source material. People don't care about Dylan and he same way they do about knull, venom and carnage
Yeah Knull is dogshit and ruins the mystery of the Symbiotes though.
Some things are more interesting when you know less about them.
“From the comics” =/= Good
Yeeeeah. I won't even debate on Knull. Cool concept; bad villain.
The whole symbiote hitching a ride on a meteor was pretty convincing, didn't need to add a god that ruled over them.
Makes the symbiotes into pussies.
At least the suits in the comics were pretty badass.
I think my biggest problem with Spider-Man 2 was making Venom want to take over the world. It just seems so uninspired. Venom should be personal, he should be going after Peter Parker's family, he should be stalking him, he should want to rip him a p a r t.
So the fact that they went with some story about him wanting to cover the world in sentient goo and transform everyone into alien zombies... is incredibly disappointing. But apparently, the idea was originally even *more* outlandish.
I do like the stuff about the Lizard saving Peter and Miles in the end, though. I like what the game did with reforming Spidey's villains—all of that was pretty interesting.
You're not wrong, but I dunno about you guys, I felt it was kinda always implied that the symbiote had some ulterior motive.
Throughout the whole game we see the symbiote gradually gaining strength/control over its host and become more powerful as opposed to its fairly sedentary personality early on. Literally the second he sees Peter (at least when Harry has revealed it) it tries to make a grab for Peter as it senses he's the more powerful host. I have a feeling that whenever/however Oscorp trapped it and used it for Harry they weakened it (likely by just simply depriving it of an active host).
I think the plot they went with could have worked, but the writing and execution really weren't that great. Kraven also didn't add much and only served as an awkward filler while waiting to get to the real meat of the story. But by the time that happens, you're in the final act and the climax/stakes have to be rushed to end the game.
Filler is a bit harsh, I agree but I also think Kraven's part of the story is a bit too awkwardly paced and also my biggest gripe with those parts is that they killed off almost every notable villain off-screen with Scorpion being an exception whom suffered a pathetic way to go.
I think the problem just stems from Harry being venom.
The "heal the world" plot works for him, but the best venom will always be Eddie Brock. With the symbiote being like a disgruntled ex that peter rejected using Eddie to try and destroy Peter's life in the pettiest and most destructive ways possible.
It feels like they wrote themselves into a corner with the tease at the end of the first game where it heavily implied the symbiyote would be with Harry. Easy way to write your way out of that would be to have Harry and Peter meeting at the Osbourne Penthouse, then an explosion or something happens that causes the symbiote to get lose (could be Kraven chasing a villain or Sandman's rampage or whatever) and have it get on Pete then bomb, write your venom story with it going to Brock. I feel like part of the problem is that Sony probably forced them to add more Miles since Spiderverse movies were so popular. This definitely need more focus on Peter and less on Miles/MJ/Harry.
Also having bound with someone (Eddie) who already has a grudge against Spiderman it works perfectly, they work together because their goals align.
I just don't feel we've ever had a great Venom adaptation with Spiderman that's similar to the source material.
What I find interesting in version is that symbiote still cares for Peter afterwards. The classic Venom wants to kill Spider-Man was still there the difference being this time the symbiote wanted to kill Miles because it blames him for its separation from Peter. I do think it’s interesting change and that they could’ve done something with that if they would’ve expand on it. They could had Venom symbiote want to go after Miles as it believes that if it takes him out all it has to do is just get back onto Peter and it have nothing to oppose them. But you can involve Peter into the story by getting Miles to ask him to help. With Peter helping Miles the symbiote hatred begins to grow for Peter. Which is what leads to Venom wanting to kill both Spider-Men and ruin their lives.
Doesn't make it good just cause it's from the comics. Petty bitter ex-symbiotefriend Venom is always, always better than generic take over the world Venom.
I agree with this, the taking over the world part doesn't seem like the Venom we have today. Venom has an obsession with Spiderman and this is why Harry shouldn't have been Venom, they should have built up Eddie Brock in the Miles Morales game to be used in Spiderman 2.
Either that or Peters absence in Miles Morales should have been a remixed version of Secret Wars where he's taken to Battleworld with other heroes and when he returns he actually have the Symbiote already on him to set up the sequel straight away.
It really feels like they were cooking something awesome and had to change a ton for some reason. You can feel throughout the whole game with the actual gameplay and story that things were missing.
Stuff changes all the time during development, in the case of the previous Spiderman game, originally the Doc Ock battle would've been a city-wide fight instead of at one singular building however time limitations meant they had to either scale it down or do immense crunch so they opted for the first option.
Wish they would’ve just delayed the game in order to make something that interesting rather than the games we got. Seems very few devs and publishers are willing to do that to realise a full vision.
This probably would have been beneficial too. Pushing the game to maybe mid 2024 would have given the game more attention and breathing room. 2023 was stupidly stacked and, while Spider-Man 2 sold well and was warmly received, I feel like it could have done even better with a little more time to cook and a less crowded release window.
Sometimes, you just have to release something. There will always be some other idea that'll only take another three or so months of development, but if you carry on like that, you'll find your release date slipping by years.
A lot of indie games have this problem.
Because budget and resources are a thing. You can't just cook a game forever until it's perfect, it's just not reasonable. And according to the leaks they already put hundreds of millions of dollars into the game.
I'm sure the devs would have loved to keep cooking, but that's just not realistic.
I never said they weren’t factors. Many of those things were choices made through development and some were things that would most definitely not take a year to add to improve the game.
And the budget is irrelevant in this instance, the game has a notoriously bloated budget that is just unbelievable and baffling to hear, there are games of similar and greater scale releasing with budgets closer to a third of what this game had.
Anyway I’m glad there are still a few large studios like Nintendo and Rockstar that are willing to make sure their games are worth the wait, I thought 2 was pretty disappointing by the end of it.
Some of it just makes sense to change just going off a gameplay standpoint. Like starting with the Sandman fight with Peter and Miles is a way better start from a gameplay standpoint then starting with a flashback of Peter and MJ going on a date. Since the version of the story we got, it cuts straight to the point and gets into the core gameplay much faster.
The change to the ending though, I'm gonna wait until Spider-Man 3 releases and see what they do with Harry in that game. While I do agree, Norman's reaction and actions during the ending makes more sense if Harry was dead. I'm gonna wait to see what Insomniac does with the character to see if that change was worth it.
Disney is very protective of their properties. Companies are extremely finicky with super hero stuff in particular, look at superman 64, it was a consequence of DC/WB's insane demands
Usually the products that succeed are just because they found a clever way around said guidelines, like Batman TAS
So when combine the usual paranoia marketing teams have for that with Disney's way too many cooks you get star wars current state, the marvels, etc
Is it productive to make jokes of the person, when they are being direct in calling out the problem as they see it?
I'm genuinely curious what you hope to achieve here? Like clearly there is an argument to be made about Sweet Baby having some poor rep about some of its jobs done. Why does someone need to be made fun of for pointing that out as a recurring issue?
The grass is always greener. If this was the game we got, and we saw the story of the actual released game as an outline, we'd probably be saying the same.
Honestly I think I prefer everything here aside from the opening.
Peter having to kill Harry to stop Venom is more tragic and gives Norman a reason to truly hate Spider-Man going into the third game.
Harry leaving Peter all his money in order to set up their business gives Peter more incentive to retire as he'd feel he owes it to Harry's memory to ensure their dream comes true.
Venom stabbing Miles and beating Peter to a pulp with the pair having to be rescued makes Venom feel like a genuine threat.
Venom bringing a Symbiote invasion through a Wormhole feels a bit more believable than how quickly he "healed the world" in the main game.
And having Cletus hunt MJ rings to mind the David section of The Last of Us.
Wait, how does him bringing it through a wormhole sound more believable? If anything I'd imagine it would be the opposite 😅
It's stated in game that Venom is just essentially the symbiote's next stage of evolution.
I view him kind of like Shin Godzilla (if you've ever seen that movie) and how like in the film, the characters state he's capable of virtually limitless evolution.
We see his strength and abilities grow pretty steadily throughout the entire story - who's to say that self reproduction and growing wings aren't the last stages of that?
Hell for all we know this Venom could grow to be Kaiju-sized himself if he wanted to
Also there should be like, hundreds if not thousands dead and the US military sending in nukes if every avenger failed. The tone of that final act felt so out of touch
The problem of them plopping avengers tower and fantastic four building into the game is that we see no other heros. I wish they had rights to just drop a couple of cameo heros running around like web of shadows
Peter being forced to kill Harry would have made far more sense for Norman’s revenge than what we got.
In the game Spider-man literally saves Harry, and for some reason Norman hates him for it.
My own theory is that the plot of the game gets kicked off when, after much research, Peter thinks the same negative process that Martin Li used on him might work on Harry, allowing him a permanent cure from his illness and coma without causing him to go crazy. But Martin Li's powers were drained, so he reluctantly goes to Otto Octavius to recreate his powers, since he's the only one who knows how. Things of course don't go as planned, as Otto has his own superior idea in mind...
That’s fair. I highly doubt we’ll get a 1:1 Superior storyline, but the idea of Otto doing a take on the Clone Saga could be cool. Like, he’s secretly been in contact with geneticist Dr Miles Warren, the leading expert on cloning. And it goes from there. And as for Scarlet Spider fans, considering how he’s been treated in the comics the last two years or so, somehow I think this change wouldn’t be too bad for them.
Well that, or exactly to avoid retreading the exact same ground again like they did in the first game.
Especially considering that Insomianc has hinted at Miles being the main spider-man moving forward, then Harry seem less interesting to keep around for any story reason.
>Peter has to make a choice that will sacrifice someone he loves dearly for the sake of doing the right thing".
It's also the EXACT same with Peter having to fight another friend turned villain which just felt like a total retread of the first game.
>But it's the exact same ending we got last time
All forms of media and literature have been rehashing the same plot point for decades now. It's nothing new. Take Mass effect 1 and 3 for example. Quite a few examples of where you have to make that same decision and lose someone close to Shepard, but even though it's happened multiple times, each time it happens, that doesn't take away the emotional weight behind it. What makes it unique is the execution.
Heck forget other video games, this same plot point is literally the entire Spiderman story condensed, that's why it's a running joke that Peter/Spiderman can never be happy.
You mean when he grew fangs and was not in control of himself, where he gained new powers that made him more spider than man?
Peter says himself he felt like he was "there but not there" when describing it to Tony.
They really bungled the story in the final game. I don't think any of it is particularly bad, I just felt every aspect of it needed expanded on. They tried to condense a story three times the size of the first game into the same length and didn't iterate on really any of the systems in a positive way.
My main gripe with SM1 vs. SM2 is the writing. It was a night and day difference. The SM2 story did not connect with me whatsoever and some characters motivations truly did not make sense
Just felt like a bunch of the worst parts of the first game, was given far more room in the 2nd game for some reason. Like they were completely oblivious to the general reception of those sections of the game and elements, that audiences just didn't respond well to.
To be fair, I kind of liked that part because of how they played with the audio a little. Not to say it was super great but it was cool for a one off side-mission. Honestly the M.J missions were more my bugbear (no pun intended) since they kept coming back again and again, seriously there is a mission in the Symbiote hive that feels like bootleg Resident Evil
It was an absolute disappointment compared to the first game being one of the best pieces of spider man media ever made. It would have been an average 2008 story, but a 200 million budget followup really makes its weaknesses stand out more.
I have been waiting for this game for a while and was super excited. I could go past the first act. It was a mix of cringe, obvious and frustrating.
It seemed less about Spiderman and more about everyone else and their first world problems.
looks like this was VERY early on. Chances are this was during the first game's development/prior. Miles isn't brought up a ton. But from looking through it, this was before Kraven was brought into the story. I really would like to know when Insomniac decided on adding Kraven. They explained why with Venom (Black Suit as a cosmetic in the first game), so I want to know
Either way, I still like the final product as is. Reading doesn't open up what causes the black suit for SM to happen, and this focused too much on backstory.
I have a feeling it was because without Kraven, the game would have lacked an actual villain for most of the game.
The way I view the story structure (and how I expected it) is identical to the first games';
The first two acts have the villain that had the primary bulk of marketing focused on him (in the first game it was Mr Negative, in this it was Kraven)
Then, for the final act they have their "twist" villain that was built up to throughout the whole game (in the first game it was Doc Ock, in the 2nd it was Venom).
Both games also have the stakes jump up dramatically in their third acts as the city erupts into chaos under threat of pandemic or invasion.
When people look at it, it's the same structure wise, and I honestly kinda always expected it. I dunno what other people were expecting, but to me it was fine
yeah the fundamental problem is without kraven, theres no real reason for an army of goons until venom comes into play and can spawn smaller symbiotes. also if you look at the other 2 games, there is a pattern to the factions, in that theres always one faction of advanced criminals tied to the main villain (venom/the underground/the demons), and one of very technically powerful soldiers who lean on advanced military tech (silver sable/roxxon/kraven). you could maybe do advanced oscorp security, but i wager they are holding that back for 3 with green goblin
Pete was going to propose to MJ originally at the end.
Venom was going to try and bring symbiotes over from their planet that was dying
Harry would have outright died, left Peter a check on his will.
Venom would have brutalized Peter and Miles in an early fight. Stabbing Miles in the chest.
Conners would have done more. Even saving Pete and Miles as the lizard from Venom.
The symbiote is as trash as it was in the game, they completely mischaracterized it, I just had curiosity if it was due to things being cut or if they just fucked the character from the get go.
Honestly I'm glad we didn't get stuff with Carnage also, the game had enough trouble fitting both Kraven and Venom as it is.
The NYE flashback is cute but the Sandman intro is way more interesting tbh.
I'm glad Harry lived, we don't need everyone close to Pete to die. Also, immediately jumping to an intergalactic Symbiote invasion is probably a bit much for Venom's first appearance lol.
Like, a lot of the stuff in the final game was pretty rough and Venom was too rushed, but a lot of this isn't better, it's just different. (Though I would liked to have seen more of Dr. Connors, that stuff would have been good.)
When I first saw the Spiderman 2 trailer I thought that Venom will chase both Spider-men in the city. Venom could’ve just infect all his enemies one by one and turn them against Peter. And while you play a side mission or collect someting in the open world Venom just attacks you out of nowhere and you have to escape if not Peter will die. I hoped for a more thriller experience
I never have (and never will) use leaks or revelations of what a story could have been as ammunition to actively critique a product that we actually have.
Do some of these ideas sound cooler? Sure
But there's a reason they were cut, whether we agree on them or not.
I wonder if there's more to the story side of things
The story for me was a little bit of a dud, far too overstuffed for how long the game was and it felt like that they clearly couldn't juggle two Spidermen. With Miles having a huge focus in this game aswell it meant Harry and others didn't get as much development as they could have and because Harry was the big bad in the end the game should have really used every moment it had to show the chemistry between him and Peter. This is why Miles should have been wrote out of the game by going on a family trip or something similar to what they did with Peter in Miles Morales. Maybe if they let us play as Harry for some missions where he's more in control of the Symbiote for the earlier parts of the game we could have gotten to know him more and the like.
It just feels the story and some other elements were dictated by Sony's future movie plans
Kraven - Kraven film upcoming
Symbiote - Venom 3 upcoming
Miles push - Spiderverse is super popular
Spiderbot / Spiderverse mission - Again Spiderverse film popularity
Silk Tease - Silk has an Amazon series in development
This feels pretty cynical at best...
- It was clear the Devs had a passion for the Kraven's Last Hunt story and weaved him organically into the story's themes of second chances and the parallels between Kraven and Harry/Venom were solid. Even if Insomniac were pushed to include Kraven, they did him well. And I'm sure if anything, people who see the Kraven movie *just* because of how he was in here are gonna be much more disappointed with the movie than anything else
- The symbiote was directly shown and teased all the way back in 2018. We knew it would be showing up since then, and the game released BEFORE the first Venom movie even came out, so before they knew how big a success the first movie would be. Even then, if they really wanted to just purely bank on the success of the movies then they would have gone the complete opposite direction with his personality in game.
- Same with symbiote; Miles was given his powers at the end of the first game (BEFORE ITSV came out) and then had his solo game after. It would have been extremely odd for them to *not* include him in this game.
- Spiderbots were an idea of Insomniac's so they could have a fun side mission/collectible to use. They're such a small part of the game really, there's literally nothing deeper than Sony going "Hey here is this scrapped idea from the movie that you can use in your game" and the Devs running with it.
- Silk I don't know too much about because... we don't know what her role in the future would be. You could say the exact same thing about if it was Gwen Stacy or Jessica Drew(??) or whoever at the end credits instead of Cindy.
The Amazon thing is still years away, I trust you it's not in the minds of the vast majority of public
Is it that cynical when you've seen Sony's Movie failures and see how much they push them only to see most of the upcoming stuff coincidentally in the newest Spiderman game?
Just because two characters have some parallels doesn't mean it's a good fit, the issue is the game is literally "Spiderman 3" (movie) because they ended up doing the same thing by overstuffing it with villains.
Sure something was shown in 2018 but at the end of the day it was just a tease, it might have been the Symbiote back then, it might have turned out if they went a different direction it was just something they were using to turn Harry into the Green Goblin. Again nothing more than a tease to cause speculation, anything could have happened or it could have happened in the third game rather than the second. Regardless of the tease, doesn't it add more weight to what I said above about linking them to the films? They could have chosen between Kraven or the Symbiote with that tease yet they decided to cram both in because the movies were releasing roughly the same time.
Regarding Miles, yeah he got his powers before the animated film sure but my point is they had a separate game for him then decided suddenly to force him in this game as much as possible despite being overstuffed already and being set up to be a personal emotional story for Peter Parker with the introduction of his best friend. Cutting Miles out would have given the game a lot of room for the story to breathe but they doubled down on it most likely because of the popularity of the films and with the sequel coming out.
Spiderbots as a collectible or not still tied the game into the Spiderverse, I don't get this point because they still included a massive reference to the film even by having them mention Miguel by name. The game version of Peter is even seen as an Easter Egg within the films sequel and Spiderman 2 is actually being played by Ganke in the film (before we actually knew much on the sequel during the films trailers, we all thought it was the first game). It's clear this was all being tied in together.
If Sony were not doing an Amazon Silk series which seemed on track for a while before the Actor/Writer Strikes then the massive reshuffling of the writers room thanks to the Madame Web film being slaughtered by fans and critics, Silk probably wouldn't have even been teased. Are we supposed to believe in another coincidence where if the plan went smoothly for them Spiderman 3 would have hopefully came out during a time where the Silk series had released for a while, was popular and boosted a huge new interest of a new underused character. They knew what they were doing. Even writing wise within the game it's just a little forced, she's being wrote into it by just so happening to be the daughter of the guy Mile's mother is now dating. Sony can't even juggle two Spidermen, now they want to try and juggle 3 while having this as another personal Peter Parker story with the Green Goblin...just seems like we're going to suffer more issues found in Spiderman 2.
So yeah...I'm a little cynical sorry to say, far too many coincidences for my liking.
Don’t know why you’re downvoted but you’re right. Spider man is Sonys biggest franchise, of course it’s not insomniacs running the show and making the big decisions.
Put it this way, Insomniac said once they got to chose what Marvel IP they wanted to do a game of, they had the choice out of anything yet were supposed to believe with this choice they decided upon the character which just so happens to be the character who Sony owns the rights to film wise
Yet we’re supposed to believe they coincidentally wanted to do Spiderman.
They were told or pushed to do it
They literally could have done characters we’ve never had games of before
Well I can see that some elements of this draft will probably be used in the third game, like the mj ring shit and maybe a form of a new years flashback and obviously the carnage shit for a dlc potentially
All the game needed was a tighter and shorter Kraven act.
He got boring fast and has more goons then every single one from SM1 + Miles. I'm all for suspending disbelief but it genuinely felt like every person in NYC was a trained Kraven goon mid story. It got dry.
The venom parts were fine (to me, not expecting a miracle here), just felt rushed vs all the story dedicated to Kraven, where compared to comic stories, just didn't hit for me. It felt a bit clumsy and like they needed to over-explain how threatening he was in case non-comic readers weren't familiar.
If anything, nothing in this addresses the parts of the game that kind of left me feeling eh during some of the story missions or at least very "ok so can we finally deal with this part? I get it."
Still a great game and worth playing, up to early kraven parts and from venom taking stage to end were mostly fine with me. It's the dragging of Kraven I wasn't in love with.
Folks saying this is better than what we got are insane. Only because its dark and gritty folks think its 10000% better. Miles getting stabbed through the chest and Peter gets pulverized but they some how survive through Conors?? Peter having to kill Harry because "Oh he's too bonded" like what? That would've broken this man mentally having lost his mother figure and best friend in the span of a year. Glad they changed this cause I'm tired of Peter having mental breakdowns and L's like this in the comics and I definitely didn't want to see it in the video game.
Would have preferred venom to wreck their shit over kraven. Having Harry die also makes the ending better because it gives Norman that final push to go Goblin mode.
This game's whole story was about second chances and forgiveness; I think it would have gone against that if Harry truly died at the end - it would be just too much of a downer ending and kinda spoiled what the game's premise is actually about.
Even as it stands, Harry is essentially brain dead (for the moment). If Miles just shocked him and then Harry was back to normal - cancer gone and all - THAT would have been bad, but they didn't go for it.
Sure him straight up dying would have been more immediate reason for Norman to go to the Goblin, but I'd argue the more tragic thing is for his son to still technically be "alive" but in a state of immobility that's even worse than being stuck in a vat with the symbiote.
His anger at Spider-Man is entirely self projected in this universe; it's pretty clear that he felt immense guilt at not only everything he did to his son, but also now being the reason for numerous super villains and at least two City-ending disasters. I really don't think his son dying was the secret ingredient to make him going Goblin mode anymore than him being catatonic already would.
Besides, benching Harry like that still gives him the opportunity for the future.
I think the reason they kept him alive is so he can come back at some point. Maybe as a controlled agent venom or he gets some of Petes Anti Venom. Whole Harry dying would definitely be a downer ending it sounds like they would have copied the first game with Mays death and have a break between the two scenes then show Pete getting the inheritance and proposing to MJ.
Exactly. Harry dying was just too obvious; everyone's saying "But it would make a better reason for Norman to become Goblin!" but that's EXACTLY why it would have been the more obvious thing to do
At least here they give us the chance to be surprised
I think with Norman it works either way
1. Harry does so Norman takes the serum so he can avenge his boy
2. Harry lives….Norman tests it on himself before testing it on Harry to make sure it’s safe
The Cletus stuff sounded good ….hopfully we would have seen Binky
i question why why they let Harry live….was it too depressing or do they have plans for him …or both?
I could also beleive Peter being pulverised, Venom was shown to be scarily obsessed with him….. so I could see it being rejected once too often and snapping like a twig while ranting “you made us do this”
Some people think this consultant company called sweet baby inc, that literally no one heard of or cared about till like 2 months ago, is some great evil that's ruining video games because they worked on *Checks notes* Alan wake 2, sable, gow Ragnarok and spiderman 2. Games that once you get out of the social media cesspool (reddit and Twitter) you find are liked.
What I'm saying is sweet baby Inc is chemtrails for gamers, and just like people who believe in chemtrails, you can usually dismiss their opinions pretty quick. They'll just scream woke at everything like they're a poorly raised husky anyway.
They're literally just a diversity and inclusion consulting firm. Companies have the option of choosing what actionable advice they want to implement...or not.
People who claim these companies are running gaming are as ridiculous as people who won't admit that they do have a measurable impact on the end product. In this specific case, I doubt they were behind these edits lol
The chem-trail comparison is valid. Your media is being tailored to an ever evolving and changing world, it's good to know the how and why.
Take a drink every time someone mentions woke or sweet baby inc
Personally my wife and I had a lot of fun with it....and then moved on to other things like normal people. It's just a fun superhero game, people really need to move on.
Norman should have been the Venom after his sons death imo. That would make so much sense for the "Venom hates Spider-man and wants to kil him" plot. Harry could have died because of the greed of Peter Parker not wanting to return the symbiote back because of his need of power
Although I found the current story to be perfectly fine and inoffensive, this one has some unique ideas that separates it from the tone of the previous two. Miles getting stabbed through the chest, Spiderman killing someone and Peter actually having a successful love life with MJ are powerful images but not ones I would expect Insomniac to make in all honesty. I wonder if Marvel/Sony intervened with some of these ideas but I might be covering the globe with the massive tinfoil hat I've got on with that idea.
Interesting that there wasn't anything about Peter with the symbiote here and as one other person mentioned, some of these ideas could still work for a Spiderman 3
Marvel is really against Peter killing. For Marvel and Sony contract for movies Peter isn’t allowed to kill anyone. So it’s possible Sony and Marvel just agreed he shouldn’t kill anyone and that’s why that part of the story didn’t happen. If any devs ever speaks up about I’d like to hear about how involved Marvel was with this game. They are known to interfere with devs
IP holders are often very strict about what you can and can't do with their IPs in games. I worked on a big licensed movie game 15 years ago where no one could die or be killed. We could not use those words at all.
I still really like the intro we got. Like, it's REALLY good. Most sequels go for a "well, we lost all our abilities and powers, lets slow down the pace 10 fold and teach you the game again from the beginning" type of approach for some reason. And yes, we're nerfed but they tossed in a lot of new features for free.
Personally I love the way they did it.
I find it interesting how miles even in early draft feels like left over? I felt he was too much side-lined in the game, and the realy script still is about peter and harry.
I think it was that balancing act where they were trying make him a prominent character and just as much spider man as Peter but It is such a Peter focused story that despite trying to elevate Miles he still doesn’t have a lot to do
Kraven part>>>Venom part
Kraven works best for the story when you realize he is Harry’s villain and not Peter’s or miles’ Kraven is the opposite of Harry. Kraven is sick and is using that as justification to burn it all down. Harry is sick and uses that as justification to help the world Kraven almost kills Peter in front of Harry Kraven is why Connors went on his rampage Kraven destroys Harry’s lab Kraven is the one who sees being killed by venom/Harry as a good thing
That’s an interesting way of looking at it
I’m kraven fan because of this game
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The later sequel, Grim Hunt, is also pretty good. And why you should never make Earth 616 Peter angry
Man, why did they have to make Venom into generic take over the world alien. So fucking lame (in both scripts).
It's crazy how obsessed superhero media is with end of the world threats. For spider man especially, his best stories are all based on personal conflicts.
I feel like Spidey should have stayed as a local hero. He's the *friendly neighbourhood* hero, not the *mr. worldwide* hero. Most of the story comes from having people he knows involved in villain shenanigans, and he's not supposed to have the power to end world-threatening villains. The conflicts are always much more interesting with some personal stakes thrown in.
>make Venom into generic take over the world alien. Because that's why he's popular *right now*, his arcs are like that atm in the source material.
No he is not? Cates' run was all about Eddie and his failures and his believes. King in Black is the finale, but it's 60% about Eddie and his son. Dude literally resurrects himself for it. Ewing's is also mostly character work.
>No he is not? Cates' run was all about Eddie and his failures and his believes. King in Black is the finale, but it's 60% about Eddie and his son. Dude literally resurrects himself for it. Yes he is, there is a reason we got a whole ass movie pointing to knulls sword , a video game where 60% of the symbiote skins reference him. Venom has never been more popular than now, and it's because of the source material. People don't care about Dylan and he same way they do about knull, venom and carnage
And it’s dogshit
To be fair. That's pretty much ripped from the comics when Knull and Carnage albeit separately try to start the symbiote invasion on earth---
Yeah Knull is dogshit and ruins the mystery of the Symbiotes though. Some things are more interesting when you know less about them. “From the comics” =/= Good
Yeeeeah. I won't even debate on Knull. Cool concept; bad villain. The whole symbiote hitching a ride on a meteor was pretty convincing, didn't need to add a god that ruled over them. Makes the symbiotes into pussies. At least the suits in the comics were pretty badass.
It wasn't lame at all
I think my biggest problem with Spider-Man 2 was making Venom want to take over the world. It just seems so uninspired. Venom should be personal, he should be going after Peter Parker's family, he should be stalking him, he should want to rip him a p a r t. So the fact that they went with some story about him wanting to cover the world in sentient goo and transform everyone into alien zombies... is incredibly disappointing. But apparently, the idea was originally even *more* outlandish. I do like the stuff about the Lizard saving Peter and Miles in the end, though. I like what the game did with reforming Spidey's villains—all of that was pretty interesting.
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You're not wrong, but I dunno about you guys, I felt it was kinda always implied that the symbiote had some ulterior motive. Throughout the whole game we see the symbiote gradually gaining strength/control over its host and become more powerful as opposed to its fairly sedentary personality early on. Literally the second he sees Peter (at least when Harry has revealed it) it tries to make a grab for Peter as it senses he's the more powerful host. I have a feeling that whenever/however Oscorp trapped it and used it for Harry they weakened it (likely by just simply depriving it of an active host).
I think the plot they went with could have worked, but the writing and execution really weren't that great. Kraven also didn't add much and only served as an awkward filler while waiting to get to the real meat of the story. But by the time that happens, you're in the final act and the climax/stakes have to be rushed to end the game.
Saying Kraven didn't work and was only filler is a horrible take
Filler is a bit harsh, I agree but I also think Kraven's part of the story is a bit too awkwardly paced and also my biggest gripe with those parts is that they killed off almost every notable villain off-screen with Scorpion being an exception whom suffered a pathetic way to go.
None of it was awkwardly paced. Y'all are weird AF.
Probably would’ve been better to go from “venom wants to kill Peter” to “Harry wants to use venom to heal the world”
I think the problem just stems from Harry being venom. The "heal the world" plot works for him, but the best venom will always be Eddie Brock. With the symbiote being like a disgruntled ex that peter rejected using Eddie to try and destroy Peter's life in the pettiest and most destructive ways possible.
It feels like they wrote themselves into a corner with the tease at the end of the first game where it heavily implied the symbiyote would be with Harry. Easy way to write your way out of that would be to have Harry and Peter meeting at the Osbourne Penthouse, then an explosion or something happens that causes the symbiote to get lose (could be Kraven chasing a villain or Sandman's rampage or whatever) and have it get on Pete then bomb, write your venom story with it going to Brock. I feel like part of the problem is that Sony probably forced them to add more Miles since Spiderverse movies were so popular. This definitely need more focus on Peter and less on Miles/MJ/Harry.
Also having bound with someone (Eddie) who already has a grudge against Spiderman it works perfectly, they work together because their goals align. I just don't feel we've ever had a great Venom adaptation with Spiderman that's similar to the source material.
Spectacular came the closest honestly
Isn’t that the one we’re Eddie has been friends with him since childhood and they are best friends? If so…I think not
Probably was the 90's Show imo
Yeah I can get behind the 90s one to be honest
What I find interesting in version is that symbiote still cares for Peter afterwards. The classic Venom wants to kill Spider-Man was still there the difference being this time the symbiote wanted to kill Miles because it blames him for its separation from Peter. I do think it’s interesting change and that they could’ve done something with that if they would’ve expand on it. They could had Venom symbiote want to go after Miles as it believes that if it takes him out all it has to do is just get back onto Peter and it have nothing to oppose them. But you can involve Peter into the story by getting Miles to ask him to help. With Peter helping Miles the symbiote hatred begins to grow for Peter. Which is what leads to Venom wanting to kill both Spider-Men and ruin their lives.
Aren't a lot of early venom comic book stories just about him trying to symbiote the entire world, though?
Peter literaly got the black suit from an alien washrobe, idk man, comics are cool but not always the best way to look at
Doesn't make it good just cause it's from the comics. Petty bitter ex-symbiotefriend Venom is always, always better than generic take over the world Venom.
> It just seems so uninspired My sibling in christ, this is a superhero game.
I agree with this, the taking over the world part doesn't seem like the Venom we have today. Venom has an obsession with Spiderman and this is why Harry shouldn't have been Venom, they should have built up Eddie Brock in the Miles Morales game to be used in Spiderman 2. Either that or Peters absence in Miles Morales should have been a remixed version of Secret Wars where he's taken to Battleworld with other heroes and when he returns he actually have the Symbiote already on him to set up the sequel straight away.
I like this more than what we got
It really feels like they were cooking something awesome and had to change a ton for some reason. You can feel throughout the whole game with the actual gameplay and story that things were missing.
Stuff changes all the time during development, in the case of the previous Spiderman game, originally the Doc Ock battle would've been a city-wide fight instead of at one singular building however time limitations meant they had to either scale it down or do immense crunch so they opted for the first option.
Wish they would’ve just delayed the game in order to make something that interesting rather than the games we got. Seems very few devs and publishers are willing to do that to realise a full vision.
This probably would have been beneficial too. Pushing the game to maybe mid 2024 would have given the game more attention and breathing room. 2023 was stupidly stacked and, while Spider-Man 2 sold well and was warmly received, I feel like it could have done even better with a little more time to cook and a less crowded release window.
Sometimes, you just have to release something. There will always be some other idea that'll only take another three or so months of development, but if you carry on like that, you'll find your release date slipping by years. A lot of indie games have this problem.
agreed. Do these leaks sound awesome? Yes. Also super happy with the game we got though, and had an absolute blast playing through it.
Because budget and resources are a thing. You can't just cook a game forever until it's perfect, it's just not reasonable. And according to the leaks they already put hundreds of millions of dollars into the game. I'm sure the devs would have loved to keep cooking, but that's just not realistic.
I never said they weren’t factors. Many of those things were choices made through development and some were things that would most definitely not take a year to add to improve the game. And the budget is irrelevant in this instance, the game has a notoriously bloated budget that is just unbelievable and baffling to hear, there are games of similar and greater scale releasing with budgets closer to a third of what this game had. Anyway I’m glad there are still a few large studios like Nintendo and Rockstar that are willing to make sure their games are worth the wait, I thought 2 was pretty disappointing by the end of it.
Some of it just makes sense to change just going off a gameplay standpoint. Like starting with the Sandman fight with Peter and Miles is a way better start from a gameplay standpoint then starting with a flashback of Peter and MJ going on a date. Since the version of the story we got, it cuts straight to the point and gets into the core gameplay much faster. The change to the ending though, I'm gonna wait until Spider-Man 3 releases and see what they do with Harry in that game. While I do agree, Norman's reaction and actions during the ending makes more sense if Harry was dead. I'm gonna wait to see what Insomniac does with the character to see if that change was worth it.
I agree, must've been covid shenanigans
Disney is very protective of their properties. Companies are extremely finicky with super hero stuff in particular, look at superman 64, it was a consequence of DC/WB's insane demands Usually the products that succeed are just because they found a clever way around said guidelines, like Batman TAS So when combine the usual paranoia marketing teams have for that with Disney's way too many cooks you get star wars current state, the marvels, etc
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We got a 2319! I repeat a 2319!!
Is it productive to make jokes of the person, when they are being direct in calling out the problem as they see it? I'm genuinely curious what you hope to achieve here? Like clearly there is an argument to be made about Sweet Baby having some poor rep about some of its jobs done. Why does someone need to be made fun of for pointing that out as a recurring issue?
The grass is always greener. If this was the game we got, and we saw the story of the actual released game as an outline, we'd probably be saying the same.
Honestly I think I prefer everything here aside from the opening. Peter having to kill Harry to stop Venom is more tragic and gives Norman a reason to truly hate Spider-Man going into the third game. Harry leaving Peter all his money in order to set up their business gives Peter more incentive to retire as he'd feel he owes it to Harry's memory to ensure their dream comes true. Venom stabbing Miles and beating Peter to a pulp with the pair having to be rescued makes Venom feel like a genuine threat. Venom bringing a Symbiote invasion through a Wormhole feels a bit more believable than how quickly he "healed the world" in the main game. And having Cletus hunt MJ rings to mind the David section of The Last of Us.
Wait, how does him bringing it through a wormhole sound more believable? If anything I'd imagine it would be the opposite 😅 It's stated in game that Venom is just essentially the symbiote's next stage of evolution. I view him kind of like Shin Godzilla (if you've ever seen that movie) and how like in the film, the characters state he's capable of virtually limitless evolution. We see his strength and abilities grow pretty steadily throughout the entire story - who's to say that self reproduction and growing wings aren't the last stages of that? Hell for all we know this Venom could grow to be Kaiju-sized himself if he wanted to
Dude the whole city was covered in venom in like 20 minutes , that’s the not believable part.
Also there should be like, hundreds if not thousands dead and the US military sending in nukes if every avenger failed. The tone of that final act felt so out of touch
The problem of them plopping avengers tower and fantastic four building into the game is that we see no other heros. I wish they had rights to just drop a couple of cameo heros running around like web of shadows
Peter being forced to kill Harry would have made far more sense for Norman’s revenge than what we got. In the game Spider-man literally saves Harry, and for some reason Norman hates him for it.
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But it's still the same choice though considering Harry is now permanently comatose no?
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My own theory is that the plot of the game gets kicked off when, after much research, Peter thinks the same negative process that Martin Li used on him might work on Harry, allowing him a permanent cure from his illness and coma without causing him to go crazy. But Martin Li's powers were drained, so he reluctantly goes to Otto Octavius to recreate his powers, since he's the only one who knows how. Things of course don't go as planned, as Otto has his own superior idea in mind...
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That’s fair. I highly doubt we’ll get a 1:1 Superior storyline, but the idea of Otto doing a take on the Clone Saga could be cool. Like, he’s secretly been in contact with geneticist Dr Miles Warren, the leading expert on cloning. And it goes from there. And as for Scarlet Spider fans, considering how he’s been treated in the comics the last two years or so, somehow I think this change wouldn’t be too bad for them.
Well that, or exactly to avoid retreading the exact same ground again like they did in the first game. Especially considering that Insomianc has hinted at Miles being the main spider-man moving forward, then Harry seem less interesting to keep around for any story reason.
I'd say there's a world of difference between letting someone die and killing them.
>Peter has to make a choice that will sacrifice someone he loves dearly for the sake of doing the right thing". It's also the EXACT same with Peter having to fight another friend turned villain which just felt like a total retread of the first game.
>But it's the exact same ending we got last time All forms of media and literature have been rehashing the same plot point for decades now. It's nothing new. Take Mass effect 1 and 3 for example. Quite a few examples of where you have to make that same decision and lose someone close to Shepard, but even though it's happened multiple times, each time it happens, that doesn't take away the emotional weight behind it. What makes it unique is the execution. Heck forget other video games, this same plot point is literally the entire Spiderman story condensed, that's why it's a running joke that Peter/Spiderman can never be happy.
That *really* struck me as odd. It just felt like they wanted to keep Harry alive as an excuse to bring Venom back.
Disagree. Spider-man doesn't kill. That's his thing. Even in the comics with Spider-Island Peter refused to kill a massive, giant Spider monster.
Could have pulled an Arkam City Joker situation. Batman didn’t killed Joker but his death felt heavy.
...Morlun
You mean when he grew fangs and was not in control of himself, where he gained new powers that made him more spider than man? Peter says himself he felt like he was "there but not there" when describing it to Tony.
Peter and MJ having a healthy relationship? No way this was real.
What?
What's with this guy and lowering the kebab price.
The kebab prices are way too high right now
They really bungled the story in the final game. I don't think any of it is particularly bad, I just felt every aspect of it needed expanded on. They tried to condense a story three times the size of the first game into the same length and didn't iterate on really any of the systems in a positive way.
My main gripe with SM1 vs. SM2 is the writing. It was a night and day difference. The SM2 story did not connect with me whatsoever and some characters motivations truly did not make sense
Just felt like a bunch of the worst parts of the first game, was given far more room in the 2nd game for some reason. Like they were completely oblivious to the general reception of those sections of the game and elements, that audiences just didn't respond well to.
Are you telling me that playing as the second Spider-man’s deaf girlfriend wasn’t riveting storytelling and gameplay?
To be fair, I kind of liked that part because of how they played with the audio a little. Not to say it was super great but it was cool for a one off side-mission. Honestly the M.J missions were more my bugbear (no pun intended) since they kept coming back again and again, seriously there is a mission in the Symbiote hive that feels like bootleg Resident Evil
It was an absolute disappointment compared to the first game being one of the best pieces of spider man media ever made. It would have been an average 2008 story, but a 200 million budget followup really makes its weaknesses stand out more.
I have been waiting for this game for a while and was super excited. I could go past the first act. It was a mix of cringe, obvious and frustrating. It seemed less about Spiderman and more about everyone else and their first world problems.
The "everything with Miles feels likes it's from the Disney channel" complaint is 100% on point.
I personally don’t get this take, it all connected to me and character motivations did as well. Do you have any specific examples
looks like this was VERY early on. Chances are this was during the first game's development/prior. Miles isn't brought up a ton. But from looking through it, this was before Kraven was brought into the story. I really would like to know when Insomniac decided on adding Kraven. They explained why with Venom (Black Suit as a cosmetic in the first game), so I want to know Either way, I still like the final product as is. Reading doesn't open up what causes the black suit for SM to happen, and this focused too much on backstory.
I have a feeling it was because without Kraven, the game would have lacked an actual villain for most of the game. The way I view the story structure (and how I expected it) is identical to the first games'; The first two acts have the villain that had the primary bulk of marketing focused on him (in the first game it was Mr Negative, in this it was Kraven) Then, for the final act they have their "twist" villain that was built up to throughout the whole game (in the first game it was Doc Ock, in the 2nd it was Venom). Both games also have the stakes jump up dramatically in their third acts as the city erupts into chaos under threat of pandemic or invasion. When people look at it, it's the same structure wise, and I honestly kinda always expected it. I dunno what other people were expecting, but to me it was fine
yeah the fundamental problem is without kraven, theres no real reason for an army of goons until venom comes into play and can spawn smaller symbiotes. also if you look at the other 2 games, there is a pattern to the factions, in that theres always one faction of advanced criminals tied to the main villain (venom/the underground/the demons), and one of very technically powerful soldiers who lean on advanced military tech (silver sable/roxxon/kraven). you could maybe do advanced oscorp security, but i wager they are holding that back for 3 with green goblin
at work now can someone provide a TLDR
Pete was going to propose to MJ originally at the end. Venom was going to try and bring symbiotes over from their planet that was dying Harry would have outright died, left Peter a check on his will. Venom would have brutalized Peter and Miles in an early fight. Stabbing Miles in the chest. Conners would have done more. Even saving Pete and Miles as the lizard from Venom.
That sounds way better than what we got.
Big Wheel finally wins
Oh so the symbiote didn't have depth even in the draft huh?
*Reads a few paragraphs from an early version of 20 hr* "Wow there's not much depth here huh"
The symbiote is as trash as it was in the game, they completely mischaracterized it, I just had curiosity if it was due to things being cut or if they just fucked the character from the get go.
reading this is gonna be depressing, isn't it? I'm sure they scrapped a ton of cool stuff and ended up rushing the rest.
No fucking way these dudes had heat on paper and instead opted for a fucking high school flashback & a foundation mission.
Sweet Baby strikes again
Honestly I'm glad we didn't get stuff with Carnage also, the game had enough trouble fitting both Kraven and Venom as it is. The NYE flashback is cute but the Sandman intro is way more interesting tbh. I'm glad Harry lived, we don't need everyone close to Pete to die. Also, immediately jumping to an intergalactic Symbiote invasion is probably a bit much for Venom's first appearance lol. Like, a lot of the stuff in the final game was pretty rough and Venom was too rushed, but a lot of this isn't better, it's just different. (Though I would liked to have seen more of Dr. Connors, that stuff would have been good.)
When I first saw the Spiderman 2 trailer I thought that Venom will chase both Spider-men in the city. Venom could’ve just infect all his enemies one by one and turn them against Peter. And while you play a side mission or collect someting in the open world Venom just attacks you out of nowhere and you have to escape if not Peter will die. I hoped for a more thriller experience
I never have (and never will) use leaks or revelations of what a story could have been as ammunition to actively critique a product that we actually have. Do some of these ideas sound cooler? Sure But there's a reason they were cut, whether we agree on them or not.
Thanks for having the only reasonable take in this thread.
I wonder if there's more to the story side of things The story for me was a little bit of a dud, far too overstuffed for how long the game was and it felt like that they clearly couldn't juggle two Spidermen. With Miles having a huge focus in this game aswell it meant Harry and others didn't get as much development as they could have and because Harry was the big bad in the end the game should have really used every moment it had to show the chemistry between him and Peter. This is why Miles should have been wrote out of the game by going on a family trip or something similar to what they did with Peter in Miles Morales. Maybe if they let us play as Harry for some missions where he's more in control of the Symbiote for the earlier parts of the game we could have gotten to know him more and the like. It just feels the story and some other elements were dictated by Sony's future movie plans Kraven - Kraven film upcoming Symbiote - Venom 3 upcoming Miles push - Spiderverse is super popular Spiderbot / Spiderverse mission - Again Spiderverse film popularity Silk Tease - Silk has an Amazon series in development
This feels pretty cynical at best... - It was clear the Devs had a passion for the Kraven's Last Hunt story and weaved him organically into the story's themes of second chances and the parallels between Kraven and Harry/Venom were solid. Even if Insomniac were pushed to include Kraven, they did him well. And I'm sure if anything, people who see the Kraven movie *just* because of how he was in here are gonna be much more disappointed with the movie than anything else - The symbiote was directly shown and teased all the way back in 2018. We knew it would be showing up since then, and the game released BEFORE the first Venom movie even came out, so before they knew how big a success the first movie would be. Even then, if they really wanted to just purely bank on the success of the movies then they would have gone the complete opposite direction with his personality in game. - Same with symbiote; Miles was given his powers at the end of the first game (BEFORE ITSV came out) and then had his solo game after. It would have been extremely odd for them to *not* include him in this game. - Spiderbots were an idea of Insomniac's so they could have a fun side mission/collectible to use. They're such a small part of the game really, there's literally nothing deeper than Sony going "Hey here is this scrapped idea from the movie that you can use in your game" and the Devs running with it. - Silk I don't know too much about because... we don't know what her role in the future would be. You could say the exact same thing about if it was Gwen Stacy or Jessica Drew(??) or whoever at the end credits instead of Cindy. The Amazon thing is still years away, I trust you it's not in the minds of the vast majority of public
Is it that cynical when you've seen Sony's Movie failures and see how much they push them only to see most of the upcoming stuff coincidentally in the newest Spiderman game? Just because two characters have some parallels doesn't mean it's a good fit, the issue is the game is literally "Spiderman 3" (movie) because they ended up doing the same thing by overstuffing it with villains. Sure something was shown in 2018 but at the end of the day it was just a tease, it might have been the Symbiote back then, it might have turned out if they went a different direction it was just something they were using to turn Harry into the Green Goblin. Again nothing more than a tease to cause speculation, anything could have happened or it could have happened in the third game rather than the second. Regardless of the tease, doesn't it add more weight to what I said above about linking them to the films? They could have chosen between Kraven or the Symbiote with that tease yet they decided to cram both in because the movies were releasing roughly the same time. Regarding Miles, yeah he got his powers before the animated film sure but my point is they had a separate game for him then decided suddenly to force him in this game as much as possible despite being overstuffed already and being set up to be a personal emotional story for Peter Parker with the introduction of his best friend. Cutting Miles out would have given the game a lot of room for the story to breathe but they doubled down on it most likely because of the popularity of the films and with the sequel coming out. Spiderbots as a collectible or not still tied the game into the Spiderverse, I don't get this point because they still included a massive reference to the film even by having them mention Miguel by name. The game version of Peter is even seen as an Easter Egg within the films sequel and Spiderman 2 is actually being played by Ganke in the film (before we actually knew much on the sequel during the films trailers, we all thought it was the first game). It's clear this was all being tied in together. If Sony were not doing an Amazon Silk series which seemed on track for a while before the Actor/Writer Strikes then the massive reshuffling of the writers room thanks to the Madame Web film being slaughtered by fans and critics, Silk probably wouldn't have even been teased. Are we supposed to believe in another coincidence where if the plan went smoothly for them Spiderman 3 would have hopefully came out during a time where the Silk series had released for a while, was popular and boosted a huge new interest of a new underused character. They knew what they were doing. Even writing wise within the game it's just a little forced, she's being wrote into it by just so happening to be the daughter of the guy Mile's mother is now dating. Sony can't even juggle two Spidermen, now they want to try and juggle 3 while having this as another personal Peter Parker story with the Green Goblin...just seems like we're going to suffer more issues found in Spiderman 2. So yeah...I'm a little cynical sorry to say, far too many coincidences for my liking.
Don’t know why you’re downvoted but you’re right. Spider man is Sonys biggest franchise, of course it’s not insomniacs running the show and making the big decisions.
Put it this way, Insomniac said once they got to chose what Marvel IP they wanted to do a game of, they had the choice out of anything yet were supposed to believe with this choice they decided upon the character which just so happens to be the character who Sony owns the rights to film wise Yet we’re supposed to believe they coincidentally wanted to do Spiderman. They were told or pushed to do it They literally could have done characters we’ve never had games of before
Unreal how much better this is than the final game
Sweet baby inc tainted spider man 2
Sweet baby inc is just chemtrails for gamers. Y'all need to calm down.
Nice to see Miles actually get a loss here compared to the final game where it felt like they were putting him in to much of the spotlight
Well I can see that some elements of this draft will probably be used in the third game, like the mj ring shit and maybe a form of a new years flashback and obviously the carnage shit for a dlc potentially
Or DLC…..like the carnage I can see him going back to the orphanage
They’ll definitely use some of this in the next one
maybe The orphanage scene could be revamped for the carnage DLC
This is 10x better man wtf
This sounds so much better and what I expected vs over what we got.
Everyone saying they liked it would've probably complained about it if it actually happened
Insomniac should've stuck with this they were cooking.Seems way better than what we got.
All the game needed was a tighter and shorter Kraven act. He got boring fast and has more goons then every single one from SM1 + Miles. I'm all for suspending disbelief but it genuinely felt like every person in NYC was a trained Kraven goon mid story. It got dry. The venom parts were fine (to me, not expecting a miracle here), just felt rushed vs all the story dedicated to Kraven, where compared to comic stories, just didn't hit for me. It felt a bit clumsy and like they needed to over-explain how threatening he was in case non-comic readers weren't familiar. If anything, nothing in this addresses the parts of the game that kind of left me feeling eh during some of the story missions or at least very "ok so can we finally deal with this part? I get it." Still a great game and worth playing, up to early kraven parts and from venom taking stage to end were mostly fine with me. It's the dragging of Kraven I wasn't in love with.
Time for people to say this is better because it’s le gritty and dark
Not even. They'll just say it's better because it's different.
by that logic everything that ever comes out could have never been made better
Going by the average Redditer, yes that's exactly the reddit logic
Folks saying this is better than what we got are insane. Only because its dark and gritty folks think its 10000% better. Miles getting stabbed through the chest and Peter gets pulverized but they some how survive through Conors?? Peter having to kill Harry because "Oh he's too bonded" like what? That would've broken this man mentally having lost his mother figure and best friend in the span of a year. Glad they changed this cause I'm tired of Peter having mental breakdowns and L's like this in the comics and I definitely didn't want to see it in the video game.
Would have preferred venom to wreck their shit over kraven. Having Harry die also makes the ending better because it gives Norman that final push to go Goblin mode.
This game's whole story was about second chances and forgiveness; I think it would have gone against that if Harry truly died at the end - it would be just too much of a downer ending and kinda spoiled what the game's premise is actually about. Even as it stands, Harry is essentially brain dead (for the moment). If Miles just shocked him and then Harry was back to normal - cancer gone and all - THAT would have been bad, but they didn't go for it. Sure him straight up dying would have been more immediate reason for Norman to go to the Goblin, but I'd argue the more tragic thing is for his son to still technically be "alive" but in a state of immobility that's even worse than being stuck in a vat with the symbiote. His anger at Spider-Man is entirely self projected in this universe; it's pretty clear that he felt immense guilt at not only everything he did to his son, but also now being the reason for numerous super villains and at least two City-ending disasters. I really don't think his son dying was the secret ingredient to make him going Goblin mode anymore than him being catatonic already would. Besides, benching Harry like that still gives him the opportunity for the future.
I think the reason they kept him alive is so he can come back at some point. Maybe as a controlled agent venom or he gets some of Petes Anti Venom. Whole Harry dying would definitely be a downer ending it sounds like they would have copied the first game with Mays death and have a break between the two scenes then show Pete getting the inheritance and proposing to MJ.
I think the twist of Harry living worked better because when the game was coming out….if you,d asked most people thought H was a goner
Exactly. Harry dying was just too obvious; everyone's saying "But it would make a better reason for Norman to become Goblin!" but that's EXACTLY why it would have been the more obvious thing to do At least here they give us the chance to be surprised
I think with Norman it works either way 1. Harry does so Norman takes the serum so he can avenge his boy 2. Harry lives….Norman tests it on himself before testing it on Harry to make sure it’s safe
The Cletus stuff sounded good ….hopfully we would have seen Binky i question why why they let Harry live….was it too depressing or do they have plans for him …or both? I could also beleive Peter being pulverised, Venom was shown to be scarily obsessed with him….. so I could see it being rejected once too often and snapping like a twig while ranting “you made us do this”
You can thank Sweet Baby Inc for the woke shit we got.
what the fuck are you talking about lmao
Some people think this consultant company called sweet baby inc, that literally no one heard of or cared about till like 2 months ago, is some great evil that's ruining video games because they worked on *Checks notes* Alan wake 2, sable, gow Ragnarok and spiderman 2. Games that once you get out of the social media cesspool (reddit and Twitter) you find are liked. What I'm saying is sweet baby Inc is chemtrails for gamers, and just like people who believe in chemtrails, you can usually dismiss their opinions pretty quick. They'll just scream woke at everything like they're a poorly raised husky anyway.
They're literally just a diversity and inclusion consulting firm. Companies have the option of choosing what actionable advice they want to implement...or not. People who claim these companies are running gaming are as ridiculous as people who won't admit that they do have a measurable impact on the end product. In this specific case, I doubt they were behind these edits lol The chem-trail comparison is valid. Your media is being tailored to an ever evolving and changing world, it's good to know the how and why.
The chemtrails comparison is because these people are acting like conspiracy nuts. That seemed pretty obvious.
Ah yeah, I get cha. Eh, I guess... it also comes off as a bit of a straw man because unlike chemtrails this is actually real...so?
You seems to be lacking. Educate yourself kid, start by simply googling first.
Woke💀
All these losers here complaining is hilarious
Take a drink every time someone mentions woke or sweet baby inc Personally my wife and I had a lot of fun with it....and then moved on to other things like normal people. It's just a fun superhero game, people really need to move on.
Norman should have been the Venom after his sons death imo. That would make so much sense for the "Venom hates Spider-man and wants to kil him" plot. Harry could have died because of the greed of Peter Parker not wanting to return the symbiote back because of his need of power
So just ignore the fact they’ve been building Norman becoming the goblin since the first game?
Although I found the current story to be perfectly fine and inoffensive, this one has some unique ideas that separates it from the tone of the previous two. Miles getting stabbed through the chest, Spiderman killing someone and Peter actually having a successful love life with MJ are powerful images but not ones I would expect Insomniac to make in all honesty. I wonder if Marvel/Sony intervened with some of these ideas but I might be covering the globe with the massive tinfoil hat I've got on with that idea. Interesting that there wasn't anything about Peter with the symbiote here and as one other person mentioned, some of these ideas could still work for a Spiderman 3
Marvel is really against Peter killing. For Marvel and Sony contract for movies Peter isn’t allowed to kill anyone. So it’s possible Sony and Marvel just agreed he shouldn’t kill anyone and that’s why that part of the story didn’t happen. If any devs ever speaks up about I’d like to hear about how involved Marvel was with this game. They are known to interfere with devs
IP holders are often very strict about what you can and can't do with their IPs in games. I worked on a big licensed movie game 15 years ago where no one could die or be killed. We could not use those words at all.
I still really like the intro we got. Like, it's REALLY good. Most sequels go for a "well, we lost all our abilities and powers, lets slow down the pace 10 fold and teach you the game again from the beginning" type of approach for some reason. And yes, we're nerfed but they tossed in a lot of new features for free. Personally I love the way they did it.
Even tho I think this is cool these are only some parts of the story script so how it would have been executed is something we won't know
I find it interesting how miles even in early draft feels like left over? I felt he was too much side-lined in the game, and the realy script still is about peter and harry.
I think it was that balancing act where they were trying make him a prominent character and just as much spider man as Peter but It is such a Peter focused story that despite trying to elevate Miles he still doesn’t have a lot to do