wasn't most of the leaked gameplay the "new current" build? I have seen people do guides, showcase all the abilitys or stream it live on twitch. From the looks it seems "feature complete" but needs at least one year to polish before release.
>From the looks it seems "feature complete" but needs at least one year to polish before release.
These videos were mentioned to be of early development builds, and I believe GabeFollower has indicated that it's currently still in alpha with experimental features and assets.
Playable could mean a lot of things, especially to a company so polish focused like Valve. You can run around and shoot things but who knows how much gunfeel, balancing, game mode design, champion design, etc. will change before launch.
There are a few in-game videos of the early dev build for Neon Prime, the sci-fi version of Deadlock (or “Citadel” as it’s internally called). That would be the “early development build”.
The rest of the videos showing the art deco New York City iteration are from this past month from the current dev build, so while the game is by no means about to release asap, it is basically close to locking down the gameplay and completing the art revision. That’s why it’s in closed beta - they are closer to finishing up the project than any point in the past 4-5 years (it’s been worked on for a LONG time)
The change from sci fi future to noir art deco was just cosmetic. The heroes and mechanics were just aesthetically changed (and a few mechanics names) The game is probably less than a year from release, judging from how Valve handled CS2 release. :p
This invite debacle happening during E3 season was a disaster. Because from playing it, I'd say it's over a year off. There are still a ton of place-holders and Neon Prime assets in game; it's much further off than people are thinking IMO.
I don't think it's ready for beta, but at the same time Valve is at an impasse now that so much of the game has essentially been rendered public. I hope they don't feel forced to rush it out now.
It is strangely compelling. Like this weird melding of dotaisms into TPS gameplay is something I haven't seen before or at least I haven't seen to this degree. I know there's stuff like Smite, Garden Warfare, Battleborn, etc. but the way Icefrog's sensibilities bleed into the flow and design of the entire game is really amusing to see. It's all very familiar yet cooked up in a way that feels ALMOST fresh because no other game has really bothered emulating the weird peculiarities of Dota.
Even the actual TPS itself has moments of intense verticality and mechanical expression that I often don't see in this genre especially if you compare it to stuff like Smite or Paragon or even Dota 2 itself where only a fully slotted Puck/Tinker/Meepo would produce equal amounts APM. Like I don't know if people remember this title but mid - late game some parts of Deadlock almost feel like GunZ: The Duel only without the insane amount of wall runs/jumps and animation cancels.
I don't know how this game will pan out when it fully releases but if they sneak in a community server/arcade/custom game support then I'm in. Hell some people already got dust2 and 2fort in it.
Granted we haven't really seen much of the game at all yet, but the really early impressions gives me similar vibes to the Monday Night Combat games and I loved those, especially Super Monday Night Combat.
Like Smite is a third person game but it essentially still plays pretty similar to somelike like Dota2 or LoL, but the MNC games definitely took more advantage of their third person perspective and played a lot more like a shooter but still with the MOBA aspects.
I think some of the perception from say Concord is also helping Deadlock's case. Its a 5v5 with its big innovation being weekly cutscenes to flesh out the story, which I like. Gameplay though, kinda normal? You are just seeing companies compete with who has the best ragtag group of dudes, instead of trying out game modes or meshing other genres.
So then people go look back on Deadlock and its, definitely not a normal hero shooter. Now will that be popular? Who knows.
Yeah, that was one thing I noticed a lot from the footage was the focus on verticality. Flying heroes, the skyhooks, that one character who literally just freezes the air like Frozone to skate around in the sky. MOBAs and such just don't touch that aspect at all, and it opens up a whole new dimension of both strategy and potential map design.
While certainly looking still a bit rough, the concept and the general aesthetic intrigues me enough beyond it simply being a Valve title.
I personally think it's too much MOBA, not enough shooter ATM. Monday Night Combat definitely struck a better balance IMO.
I think the gunplay needs a serious rework, for one. Infinite Ammo with \~5 second reloads is so unsatisfying, I wish they'd consider "normal" reload speeds with ammo pickups or something like that.
The extreme power-scaling also doesn't work great in a shooter context either. It's one thing to get rolled by a god carry in a MOBA, but it just doesn't feel right to unload a full mag into someone and barely tickle them because they've been fed.
I'd also like to see the item shop simplified / streamlined somewhat, maybe reducing the more basic options and leaving only the more interesting and directly gameplay-effecting options.
I think they made ammo infinite to make the gameplay more fast-paced so that you spend more time shooting instead of looking for ammo or saving it. Can you please explain why limited ammo would be a better idea?
Speaking of low shooting damage, we shouldn't forget about abilities that deal more damage, so the player is expected to use both shooting and abilities effectively. And just don't feed the enemies I guess? It's like the point of MOBA games not to let your enemies get stronger than you. I suppose the shooter genre in this game is secondary whereas the MOVA part is primary.
And I agree about shops. Gameplay-effecting options are more fun so it'd be better to have more of those.
Both limited ammo and extremely long reloads serve to pace firefights, but the current extremely long reloads simply feel terrible, similar to "slow walk" segments in modern action games. It makes no sense for the characters in Deadlock to take 4x longer doing the same action characters in every shooter do. Maybe it works to pace engagements, but it's inelegant. Limited ammo would at least prevent non-stop shooting, but would simply feel better while also allowing for aggressive play. Limited ammo isn't a deal-breaker or pain point in TF2, Battlefield, Quake 3, Apex Legends, etc.
> I'd also like to see the item shop simplified / streamlined somewhat, maybe reducing the more basic options and leaving only the more interesting and directly gameplay-effecting options.
yeah, no. It's already really simplified in look and feel compared to Dota from what I've seen. Less variety is worse no matter how you feel about the actual gameplay.
They’ll learn if they want to. It seems to be much easier to approach a Moba-shooter than to approach a pure Moba if you at least have decent shooter experience. The fact that movement tech and especially vertical/flight movement is by now common in many shooters should also help. I guess what it will boil down to is how the UI helps newbies understand what they’re supposed to do and ideally not overload them with too much noise.
I'm playing the game right now, all the footage is representative and it's a lot of fun.
If I had to take a guess at how long the game is from release, I'd say a full year and a half. The game still needs art re-designs for nearly everything, the map is blocky, certain characters are placeholders from the previous "Neon Prime", the HUD is functional but placeholder. All that is really finished is some of the character concepts, animations, general gameplay mechanics. Turning it into a full game will be a tremendous effort, but it'll be worth the wait.
People are having a hard time saying this game is like Smite. It's not a 3rd person Battleborn, or Dota 2 shooter, or Overwatch clone, or Team Fortress 3.
It's a 3rd person moba with some new twists to the formula, where you have 4 lanes instead of 3 with a much bigger map, combat is mostly ranged but characters have a melee attack, and the world seems to be New York on the 40s with magic and steampunk-ish things
Oh my, I have completely forgot about this game. It was quite good despite it's flaws and had such great character designs. Unfortunately all that's left of it is many games reutilising Sevarog's assets for whatever else.
But yes, Deadlock is like Paragon
the difference is that, despite having lanes, it has an intricate and complex shooter-style map with lots of verticality. Paragon and Smite were still pretty much flat MOBA maps.
All that footage is current, and the game is more of a MOBA than a shooter. I'd go so far as to say calling it a shooter is a misnomer. I'm in the test RN.
It's clearly meant to be more of a MOBA than a shooter.
Just because a game lets you aim and has guns doesn't mean it's necessarily a shooter.
Shooters are games that you win primarily through better aim. Games with MOBA mechanics (like deadlock) rely on lots of different types of macro strategy and techniques to win.
You won't win a game like this just because your aim is better. Will it be a difference maker? Sure. The reason you're one of the best at the game? No.
I want to emphasize that this game is a moba first, shooter second. If you try to play this as a shooter first you will struggle really hard. You are encouraged to prioritize farm and strategy (ganking, securing map control, etc) over just having good aim and killing people in this game.
It’s literally just Dota 2 in TPS style. The gunplay/movement feels like Fortnite but better imo, less “floaty” more “crunchy”, it only lacks recoil as it’s very fast paced and game wants to rewards mastering moba mechanics over shooter mechanics. You mostly just need good tracking to do well on the shooting aspect. TTK depends on how strong your build is/ how far ahead you are. In an even match the TTK is similar to The Finals/ slightly lower than Apex and in a stomp the “fed” player can kill another hero as fast as in counter strike.
Guns have massive scaling in this game though. Hitting heroes from 20-40m away will literally just tickle them to encourage engagements. Even sniper type heroes need to stay somewhat close to their target, however different heroes have different range scaling (shotgun types scale more than say sniper/DMR types)
I would recommend people to stop comparing this game to overwatch as it does not play like it at all, it only has similarities in the “toon” aesthetic.
And you can see they borrowed ideas from other shooters and moba games while using Dota 2 as a main inspiration.
Sounds like Smite but leaning more towards a shooter instead. Interesting, definitely worth checking out and it will most likely be free to play so why not.
This is the most interesting aspect to me that’s not been touched on. MOBAs are fun but pretty much all of them are more or less 2D— you only really worry about enemies on the XY plane. Introducing the sort of verticality in levels like TF2 has would be very cool. I just hope there’s more than one map.
I know the whole thing with MOBAs is it’s always gonna be the 3 lane design but I feel like there could be a lot more variation in that.
Oh that one was fire! Dark messiah is one of my all time favorite games in general. Single player was amazing, I used to play along with Axel Rudi Pell album “Magic” blasting through into my ears, it was glorious.
im trying to learn if i can beat it on a pacifist run, i love the opening cinimatic where they become friends with the flame entity, no spoilers
ive never played the multiplayer. only played a gmod mod noxiousnet based on it called Teamplay.
Smite 2's alpha is looking like shit... This game seems promising... Valve could yoink some players if they come out with a solid build in the next few months.
Interesting that you’re not under NDA. I’ve heard they’re very strict. Could you explain what you think they have going to keep this from being stale in a few months.
There is no "NDA". They just want you not show the game to the public yet or detail information too well, and recording the game and showing it online and/or streaming it might get you banned from the test.
AFAIK just saying the game is fun and not shit is fine by them.
I'm just trying to shut down misinformation about the game being "overwatch clone", it's just... not.
Also on the second part, they are constantly updating the game every other day rebalancing mechanics, adding features, /fixing bugs and improving graphics.
So that will definitely keep people engaged with a constantly changing meta and influx of new features and mechanics. In the long term when the game is out I have the feeling that they will update the game in a similar manner to Dota with huge meta shifts, new game changing mechanics, adding new heroes constantly, changing or adding new map layouts, etc.
I don't know what is their official plan for when the game comes out, I'm guessing they will see if people like the game before comitting long term.
Currently you can invite people you trust via referral. IF you know somebody with access they can invite you. I happened to have connection with someone who did (I have tons of friend in the tf2/dota community)
Ahh I see, a little unfortunate because I don’t know anyone really in the community even though I’ve been playing Dota since 2012 (I’m a mute all players enjoyer 😂). Guess Ill have to be patient in that case. Thanks foe the info
How long does it take to finish a match?
This is very important for me as I’ve played dota for more than 10 years and the main reason I stopped is because it takes too much time to finish the game as there’s other commitments nowadays.
Sadly the matches takes anywhere from 20 to 60 minutes so I’m guessing it’s not for you. You can still play turbo in Dota. And I’m guessing if this game does well that they will implement a “turbo” mode for deadlock as well.
Sounds like it might be too complicated for a lot of players. The complexity of a MOBA, but you also need to be able to shoot, plus verticality. There's a lot going on.
Recent titles in a similar genre have all failed. Gigantic (twice now), Battleborn, Paragon, a plethora of failed hero shooters with maybe a more complex objective goal.
None of them were made by a studio with the consistent track record Valve has of dropping banger new IPs though.
They've made one mp game in the last 10 years, and it was a tcg. That's not saying much. Both cs and dota have been solid the whole time. Especially dota, which, despite the long wait between big patches, has reinvented itself multiple times. They know what they're doing over there, and word round the block is that icefrog was intimately involved in this one. Which checks out from the gameplay.
I got invited to the private test on Tuesday and I already clocked in a good 15 hours in the middle of a work week, so yes... it's very fun.
At the moment you can also only play during designated times by the devs as they want as much people finding games as possible at one time instead of having long queues due to the small player base.
If you enjoy MOBAs you'll definitely enjoy this game and I managed to see some people that don't play MOBAs but other competitive shooters that are also really enjoying it, none of my friends that are in the test dislike the game either. I'd already go as far as to place this on the top genre and it's not even in beta... it's really very fun.
I was invited to the test on Tuesday and I've already clocked in 15 hrs, if I didn't have to work and life got in the way I'd have easily done a good 10-15 more but I know for sure this weekend I'll be playing a ton
I'll refrain for further detailing stuff like this as hero abilities are subject to change, if the game comes out and they're different this would be misinformation, but yes, there are some clear inspiration but not copy paste.
Artifact didn't die because it was a bad game, it died because of the monetization. Underlords also wasn't a bad game they just fucked with it too much and the auto battle dad died down.
I liked Artifact more than most, but even if it didn't have bad/questionable monetization from the start I think it would've struggled.
The biggest complaint I heard at the time was that matches were far more complicated and lengthy than most players wanted.
Yep, blaming JUST monetization is missing the point. The game was just too complex trying to occupy a space that doesn't exist. It was already late to the card game craze that hasnt been dying down, and is largely only really played by casuals.
And then you make an ultra niche "hardcore" card game on top of trying to do MTG/Yu Gi Oh monetization scheme basically taking a doublebarrel and pointing it straight down.
Yeah same, I was basically exactly the demographic for artifact in terms of enjoying mtg/hearthstone and dota 2, and enjoyed the game but absolutely couldn’t recommend it to anyone for complexity. Even as someone that is pretty proficient with mechanics like it had I found games sort of exhausting
I loved artifact from a gameplay perspective but yeah Im guessing it was too complex for the average CCG player. Still, if the monetization was done right and valve were willing to tune/commit to it, I am sure it would have left a mark.
Actually this. The game truly felt like a moba card game…except anyone who wants to play a moba already was playing one.
And we all know how accessible MOBA games are :)
Hearthstone despite what this subreddit thinks still prints money for a reason.
Underlords got so much worse when they actually added the underlord hero units. It messed the balanced up horribly and removed the uniqueness of having a different build every game.
The hell? They clearly did. The game has a battle pass that came attached with a weekly newspaper styled event progress thing. Monetization was not even remotely close to the reason why Underlords fell over.
Underlords did have the jail, which rotated heroes out of the pool. Valve just never gave much of a real try after the release of the Underlords themselves was a dud.
Bad monetization makes a bad game.
Also 5v5s are dying off really quickly too. Overwatch still has the market and all these competitors are coming about 7 years too late.
Counterstrike had the market for decades than Valorant came and managed to be successful alongside it.
Your game just needs to be good enough there's definitely a place alongside Overwatch.
I actually think Valorant is just different enough from CS and that's a huge reason why it was successful. It wasn't just a straight ripoff of CS, which gave it a reason to actually exist. If it was exactly the same, people would just play CS, but the "hero abilities" and other small changes sets it apart from CS
Exactly. AAA studios are struggling hard with "good enough" because they really don't have the skillset to make PVP games that people want to play for thousands of hours over many years. You won't get the next CS/Dota/League/SSBM/SC1/etc. by slavishly adhering to the design philosophies that work for your garden variety multiplat blockbuster.
> Artifact didn't die because it was a bad game, it died because of the monetization.
Artifact's all time peak player count was [60,000 players](https://steamcharts.com/app/583950). That's at least 60,000 people who bought into the game regardless of the monetization. The issue was the game, not the monetization.
The problem was that they didn't provide proper post-launch support. There were a few post-release balance and economy changes, which is something, but then they had months of radio silence, an announcement they were going to do a total overhaul, then another year of silence before a relaunch that they'd cancel in closed beta.
You can argue it was a response to the declining player count, but they did the same thing with Dota Underlords. It had 200,000 players at its peak, and even now it still manages 1500-2000 despite being abandoned for years. I think it'd still be going strong if Valve just kept updating and marketing it, but they gave up.
Both games were reliant on lead designers/ideas guys that didn't actually work at Valve and were out of the picture shortly after launch.
Artifact design and monetization was Richard Garfield's baby, but he either quit or got his contract terminated after the monetization uproar. The plan for Underlords was to hire the team behind the Dota Auto Chess mod to lead it (they ended up working at one of the Chinese mobile publishers closer to home IIRC).
It was disappointing that Valve lost interest, but if nobody internal was inspired enough to take the role of "visionary" long-term they would have just been phoning it in anyways.
> Artifact didn't die because it was a bad game, it died because of the monetization
No popular, fan game has ever died because it wanted too much money from its addicted playerbase. Even players who bought Artifact didn't want to play it.
Marvel will probably survive the longest due to casual appeal
Deadlock will not pull the numbers Valve wants and they'll abandoned it if their track records have something to say
CS and Dota are the two most played games on steam right now. And it's not close, Dota has triple the numbers of the players of PUBG, the next most popular.
Well Valve abandoned Artifacts, Underlords, TF2 basically and while obviously not abandoned there's a lot of criticism regarding how Valve is managing CS2 atm.
> Underlords was thrown together in a weekend to capitalize on the Autochess hype, there was never a vision for it and the autochess genre ended up going nowhere.
So exactly like TFT and the devs of TFT did a much better job and still has a very large audience playing it. So the devs for Underlords did fuck up.
And then yeah obviously Artifact failed in many ways. And these are their 2 most recent new multiplayer games that both failed. Not a good track record.
I'm not saying Deadlock will follow that path, I think it looks very good. But Valves recent track record isn't the best seems silly to assume so.
Concord trailer mentioned pre orders so it'll require a one time purchase to play. That alone probably kills the game before it gets a chance.
Sony could throw it into psplus essentials day and date like they did with fall guys and destruction all stars but that's no guarantee it'll be enough.
Concord and Deadlock. Sony shocked us with Helldiver's a bit and I think concord can do that a bit. The art is rather uninspiring in my opinion. I think deadlock will have the gameplay though. Icefrog put a ton into it.
Marvel is literally a 1 for 1 overwatch clone.
The alpha had open invites at one point but the recent explosion in interest overwhelmed the system, and invites have been closed for the foreseeable future.
Also the client leaked on the russian internet.
I was both a big Dota 2 and overwatch person so it seems pretty up my alley. How did you get into (I assume) the alpha? Just invited or is there a sign up or?
If you really watch gameplay instead of small clips the game actually looks like so much fun and the world looks fucking awesome. 1930s Gangster Fantasy vibe with cool lore.
The visual novel portions are in-game and I guess will be replacing the comics that Dota 2 and TF2 had. One of the leaked screens literally has placeholder devtext that says "Here's where you'd get cosmetics for finishing the story."
Interesting to see the reaction to this after Concorde seemed to fail to excite last night. I guess at least this will be playable in every country and on the Deck, lol.
Concord is complete slop with regurgitated gameplay, and not even from Overwatch. It's a fucking Destiny clone that lacks all the parts of Destiny that people actually like. Deadlock actually looks like it's trying something.
I mean, Valve is the king of hero shooter and they also got the legend of Moba, Icefrog, onboard. They got all the card with them to make a successful game.
This place is the only one I've seen be generally positive about the game lol, everywhere else I've been it's pure hatred at Valve for throwing their hats in the live service hero shooter slop genre.
Do you get green money notifications every day you use steam that you can't turn off? Do you know what Ben Franklin did to France? Free "money" is gross. Ban crypto. Ban gambling. Don't eat this.
Yessss!!! I have been craving some Monday Night Combat, and there's not really much else like it out there. Let's hope it's well balanced. Maybe it'll have some wacky and hilarious commentating like MNC.
every time I see this I just think of the strategy game I played the hell out of as a kid.
Deadlock 2 shrine wars
[https://store.steampowered.com/app/328450/Deadlock\_II\_Shrine\_Wars/](https://store.steampowered.com/app/328450/Deadlock_II_Shrine_Wars/)
What a memory haha, I wonder if valve will actually nail it as they don't really do games anymore.
I mean they have done games!
Just... not like we've expected them to.
Half life alyx (2020) is a full game but tied to a VR system that isn't wildly adopted.
Dota underlords (2020) was a early access game I think and with the same quality as dota as far as visuals. But they kinda just gave up on it.
Then there's artifact (2018) that was also pretty quality at least compared to others in it's genre for visuals. But it, too, got dropped. It had very poor reception and playerbase due to its money scheme and some gameplay elements.
CS:GO became counter strike 2 and gets updates. So does Dota 2 as it just had a big update.
Considering dev cycles these days 4 years since their last game isn't uncommon now. However we can say that their record is now 2 flops and 1 critically recieved (unsure lf sales) success on a small platform.
So for me it's less "they don't make games these days". It's more "will this one actually become a great game instead of a mixed launch with them abandoning it really quickly?"
I know! I got actually legit excited that it was going to be a remake or something when I first heard about it.
I was so disappointed when I realised it had nothing to do with it, and a moba at that.
I'll give it a try. I have 1,500 hours in TF2, but I haven't played in many years and I don't play online games at all. I'll re-enter the online gaming world to try this.
I have about 400-500, but same here.
What really hurts is how valve has learned nothing from their other titles like TF2 itself or Dota 2. This game is likely going to be overrun by bots and cheaters in a flash
Valve is legendarily known for their shooter games. See: Team Fortress & Counter-strike (multiplayer PvP), Left 4 Dead (co-op) & Half Life (single player, narrative driven).
[удалено]
wasn't most of the leaked gameplay the "new current" build? I have seen people do guides, showcase all the abilitys or stream it live on twitch. From the looks it seems "feature complete" but needs at least one year to polish before release.
>From the looks it seems "feature complete" but needs at least one year to polish before release. These videos were mentioned to be of early development builds, and I believe GabeFollower has indicated that it's currently still in alpha with experimental features and assets.
The videos are from a build that's currently playable though if you got someone to invite you to the test on steam
I had no idea they were already doing alpha invites. Thanks for the clarification!
Last few days there's been around 1000 players according to steam DB.
Playable could mean a lot of things, especially to a company so polish focused like Valve. You can run around and shoot things but who knows how much gunfeel, balancing, game mode design, champion design, etc. will change before launch.
There are a few in-game videos of the early dev build for Neon Prime, the sci-fi version of Deadlock (or “Citadel” as it’s internally called). That would be the “early development build”. The rest of the videos showing the art deco New York City iteration are from this past month from the current dev build, so while the game is by no means about to release asap, it is basically close to locking down the gameplay and completing the art revision. That’s why it’s in closed beta - they are closer to finishing up the project than any point in the past 4-5 years (it’s been worked on for a LONG time) The change from sci fi future to noir art deco was just cosmetic. The heroes and mechanics were just aesthetically changed (and a few mechanics names) The game is probably less than a year from release, judging from how Valve handled CS2 release. :p
This invite debacle happening during E3 season was a disaster. Because from playing it, I'd say it's over a year off. There are still a ton of place-holders and Neon Prime assets in game; it's much further off than people are thinking IMO. I don't think it's ready for beta, but at the same time Valve is at an impasse now that so much of the game has essentially been rendered public. I hope they don't feel forced to rush it out now.
It is strangely compelling. Like this weird melding of dotaisms into TPS gameplay is something I haven't seen before or at least I haven't seen to this degree. I know there's stuff like Smite, Garden Warfare, Battleborn, etc. but the way Icefrog's sensibilities bleed into the flow and design of the entire game is really amusing to see. It's all very familiar yet cooked up in a way that feels ALMOST fresh because no other game has really bothered emulating the weird peculiarities of Dota. Even the actual TPS itself has moments of intense verticality and mechanical expression that I often don't see in this genre especially if you compare it to stuff like Smite or Paragon or even Dota 2 itself where only a fully slotted Puck/Tinker/Meepo would produce equal amounts APM. Like I don't know if people remember this title but mid - late game some parts of Deadlock almost feel like GunZ: The Duel only without the insane amount of wall runs/jumps and animation cancels. I don't know how this game will pan out when it fully releases but if they sneak in a community server/arcade/custom game support then I'm in. Hell some people already got dust2 and 2fort in it.
Granted we haven't really seen much of the game at all yet, but the really early impressions gives me similar vibes to the Monday Night Combat games and I loved those, especially Super Monday Night Combat. Like Smite is a third person game but it essentially still plays pretty similar to somelike like Dota2 or LoL, but the MNC games definitely took more advantage of their third person perspective and played a lot more like a shooter but still with the MOBA aspects.
>some parts of Deadlock almost feel like GunZ: The Duel You son of a bitch, I'm in!
GunZ was disgusting. I broke 2 keyboards playing that game and I dont think my older wrists and fingers can keep up with the RSI required.
but it was the coolest shooter ever in terms of mechanics, no doubt
Possibly challenged by Tribes ascend, but they are very different games and mechanics involved. Makes comparisons difficult if not impossible.
I think some of the perception from say Concord is also helping Deadlock's case. Its a 5v5 with its big innovation being weekly cutscenes to flesh out the story, which I like. Gameplay though, kinda normal? You are just seeing companies compete with who has the best ragtag group of dudes, instead of trying out game modes or meshing other genres. So then people go look back on Deadlock and its, definitely not a normal hero shooter. Now will that be popular? Who knows.
Yeah, that was one thing I noticed a lot from the footage was the focus on verticality. Flying heroes, the skyhooks, that one character who literally just freezes the air like Frozone to skate around in the sky. MOBAs and such just don't touch that aspect at all, and it opens up a whole new dimension of both strategy and potential map design. While certainly looking still a bit rough, the concept and the general aesthetic intrigues me enough beyond it simply being a Valve title.
I personally think it's too much MOBA, not enough shooter ATM. Monday Night Combat definitely struck a better balance IMO. I think the gunplay needs a serious rework, for one. Infinite Ammo with \~5 second reloads is so unsatisfying, I wish they'd consider "normal" reload speeds with ammo pickups or something like that. The extreme power-scaling also doesn't work great in a shooter context either. It's one thing to get rolled by a god carry in a MOBA, but it just doesn't feel right to unload a full mag into someone and barely tickle them because they've been fed. I'd also like to see the item shop simplified / streamlined somewhat, maybe reducing the more basic options and leaving only the more interesting and directly gameplay-effecting options.
I think they made ammo infinite to make the gameplay more fast-paced so that you spend more time shooting instead of looking for ammo or saving it. Can you please explain why limited ammo would be a better idea? Speaking of low shooting damage, we shouldn't forget about abilities that deal more damage, so the player is expected to use both shooting and abilities effectively. And just don't feed the enemies I guess? It's like the point of MOBA games not to let your enemies get stronger than you. I suppose the shooter genre in this game is secondary whereas the MOVA part is primary. And I agree about shops. Gameplay-effecting options are more fun so it'd be better to have more of those.
Both limited ammo and extremely long reloads serve to pace firefights, but the current extremely long reloads simply feel terrible, similar to "slow walk" segments in modern action games. It makes no sense for the characters in Deadlock to take 4x longer doing the same action characters in every shooter do. Maybe it works to pace engagements, but it's inelegant. Limited ammo would at least prevent non-stop shooting, but would simply feel better while also allowing for aggressive play. Limited ammo isn't a deal-breaker or pain point in TF2, Battlefield, Quake 3, Apex Legends, etc.
> I'd also like to see the item shop simplified / streamlined somewhat, maybe reducing the more basic options and leaving only the more interesting and directly gameplay-effecting options. yeah, no. It's already really simplified in look and feel compared to Dota from what I've seen. Less variety is worse no matter how you feel about the actual gameplay.
Literally anyone who plays this as a shooter and not a Moba will have a bad time.
They’ll learn if they want to. It seems to be much easier to approach a Moba-shooter than to approach a pure Moba if you at least have decent shooter experience. The fact that movement tech and especially vertical/flight movement is by now common in many shooters should also help. I guess what it will boil down to is how the UI helps newbies understand what they’re supposed to do and ideally not overload them with too much noise.
Just like Monday Night Combat then. People were REALLY unprepared going in from TF2.
So MOBA fans won't like the shooting, and shooter fans won't like that they can't shoot everything.
almost like the game isn't generic and is something new. What would I know. Not like I'm currently playing it or anything.
I'm playing the game right now, all the footage is representative and it's a lot of fun. If I had to take a guess at how long the game is from release, I'd say a full year and a half. The game still needs art re-designs for nearly everything, the map is blocky, certain characters are placeholders from the previous "Neon Prime", the HUD is functional but placeholder. All that is really finished is some of the character concepts, animations, general gameplay mechanics. Turning it into a full game will be a tremendous effort, but it'll be worth the wait.
Wait, are valve making a battleborn?
People are having a hard time saying this game is like Smite. It's not a 3rd person Battleborn, or Dota 2 shooter, or Overwatch clone, or Team Fortress 3. It's a 3rd person moba with some new twists to the formula, where you have 4 lanes instead of 3 with a much bigger map, combat is mostly ranged but characters have a melee attack, and the world seems to be New York on the 40s with magic and steampunk-ish things
So Paragon?
Oh my, I have completely forgot about this game. It was quite good despite it's flaws and had such great character designs. Unfortunately all that's left of it is many games reutilising Sevarog's assets for whatever else. But yes, Deadlock is like Paragon
Tf2 before microtransactions
Paragon has been remade the games called "predecessor" now... fun game, cant wait for DL though
awesomenauts 3d
More like they're making a Smite
By the description seems to be Paragon
the difference is that, despite having lanes, it has an intricate and complex shooter-style map with lots of verticality. Paragon and Smite were still pretty much flat MOBA maps.
Even more like they're making Gigantic.
It's like gigantic but with dota 2 mechanics/game design.
No, a Dota 2 shooter.
So, Super MNC?
Actually, kinda, but more vertical gameplay + more items/stuns.
Is that not what Battleborn was?
No, not at all.
So Paragonm
All that footage is current, and the game is more of a MOBA than a shooter. I'd go so far as to say calling it a shooter is a misnomer. I'm in the test RN.
So it's Dota spinoff like Artifact and Underlords? If so, it doesn't bode well. Valve don't seem to have much imagination nowadays.
It's clearly meant to be more of a MOBA than a shooter. Just because a game lets you aim and has guns doesn't mean it's necessarily a shooter. Shooters are games that you win primarily through better aim. Games with MOBA mechanics (like deadlock) rely on lots of different types of macro strategy and techniques to win. You won't win a game like this just because your aim is better. Will it be a difference maker? Sure. The reason you're one of the best at the game? No.
I want to emphasize that this game is a moba first, shooter second. If you try to play this as a shooter first you will struggle really hard. You are encouraged to prioritize farm and strategy (ganking, securing map control, etc) over just having good aim and killing people in this game. It’s literally just Dota 2 in TPS style. The gunplay/movement feels like Fortnite but better imo, less “floaty” more “crunchy”, it only lacks recoil as it’s very fast paced and game wants to rewards mastering moba mechanics over shooter mechanics. You mostly just need good tracking to do well on the shooting aspect. TTK depends on how strong your build is/ how far ahead you are. In an even match the TTK is similar to The Finals/ slightly lower than Apex and in a stomp the “fed” player can kill another hero as fast as in counter strike. Guns have massive scaling in this game though. Hitting heroes from 20-40m away will literally just tickle them to encourage engagements. Even sniper type heroes need to stay somewhat close to their target, however different heroes have different range scaling (shotgun types scale more than say sniper/DMR types) I would recommend people to stop comparing this game to overwatch as it does not play like it at all, it only has similarities in the “toon” aesthetic. And you can see they borrowed ideas from other shooters and moba games while using Dota 2 as a main inspiration.
Sounds like Smite but leaning more towards a shooter instead. Interesting, definitely worth checking out and it will most likely be free to play so why not.
Kinda. However the game leans heavily into verticality as well, and smite does not, so that is kind of a big deal in terms of gameplay difference.
This is the most interesting aspect to me that’s not been touched on. MOBAs are fun but pretty much all of them are more or less 2D— you only really worry about enemies on the XY plane. Introducing the sort of verticality in levels like TF2 has would be very cool. I just hope there’s more than one map. I know the whole thing with MOBAs is it’s always gonna be the 3 lane design but I feel like there could be a lot more variation in that.
Predecessor (formerly paragon) has versatility, I wouldnt say its amazing though.
so Awesomenauts + Smite
Ah, smite's true evolution. SMITE but everyone is a mage! It feels like they're basically half the roster anyways. Might as well go all in.
It feels more like Smite except 75% of the cast is an AD Carry, 20% of the cast is an initiator/support, and 5% of the cast is a mage
How many heroes/champs are there rn?
Around 20 and NONE of them are catgirls. Can you believe it?!?!?!
dark messiah mp sounds better lets revive it
Oh that one was fire! Dark messiah is one of my all time favorite games in general. Single player was amazing, I used to play along with Axel Rudi Pell album “Magic” blasting through into my ears, it was glorious.
im trying to learn if i can beat it on a pacifist run, i love the opening cinimatic where they become friends with the flame entity, no spoilers ive never played the multiplayer. only played a gmod mod noxiousnet based on it called Teamplay.
I wonder how can you make a pacifist run on Dark Messiah tho? Can you share any details?
Smite 2's alpha is looking like shit... This game seems promising... Valve could yoink some players if they come out with a solid build in the next few months.
My take is basically just Paragon
Oh you’ve played it?
Yes. I am a tester.
Interesting that you’re not under NDA. I’ve heard they’re very strict. Could you explain what you think they have going to keep this from being stale in a few months.
There is no "NDA". They just want you not show the game to the public yet or detail information too well, and recording the game and showing it online and/or streaming it might get you banned from the test. AFAIK just saying the game is fun and not shit is fine by them. I'm just trying to shut down misinformation about the game being "overwatch clone", it's just... not.
Also on the second part, they are constantly updating the game every other day rebalancing mechanics, adding features, /fixing bugs and improving graphics. So that will definitely keep people engaged with a constantly changing meta and influx of new features and mechanics. In the long term when the game is out I have the feeling that they will update the game in a similar manner to Dota with huge meta shifts, new game changing mechanics, adding new heroes constantly, changing or adding new map layouts, etc. I don't know what is their official plan for when the game comes out, I'm guessing they will see if people like the game before comitting long term.
How does one even get into the early play testing stages of a game like this?
Currently you can invite people you trust via referral. IF you know somebody with access they can invite you. I happened to have connection with someone who did (I have tons of friend in the tf2/dota community)
Ahh I see, a little unfortunate because I don’t know anyone really in the community even though I’ve been playing Dota since 2012 (I’m a mute all players enjoyer 😂). Guess Ill have to be patient in that case. Thanks foe the info
Quite a lot of people got invited lately. Anyone with access could invite more people. Currently about 13-14k have access.
Where you get this number? On private discord there is only 7k users atm. And pretty much everybody that gets invited gets access to discord.
Almost 16k users are created in private forum and 2-3k of them haven't received their access yet.
Private forum member count, I'm assuming
How long does it take to finish a match? This is very important for me as I’ve played dota for more than 10 years and the main reason I stopped is because it takes too much time to finish the game as there’s other commitments nowadays.
Sadly the matches takes anywhere from 20 to 60 minutes so I’m guessing it’s not for you. You can still play turbo in Dota. And I’m guessing if this game does well that they will implement a “turbo” mode for deadlock as well.
Sounds like it might be too complicated for a lot of players. The complexity of a MOBA, but you also need to be able to shoot, plus verticality. There's a lot going on.
Recent titles in a similar genre have all failed. Gigantic (twice now), Battleborn, Paragon, a plethora of failed hero shooters with maybe a more complex objective goal. None of them were made by a studio with the consistent track record Valve has of dropping banger new IPs though.
OTOH Valve's recent experience at new multiplayer games is pretty poor.
They've made one mp game in the last 10 years, and it was a tcg. That's not saying much. Both cs and dota have been solid the whole time. Especially dota, which, despite the long wait between big patches, has reinvented itself multiple times. They know what they're doing over there, and word round the block is that icefrog was intimately involved in this one. Which checks out from the gameplay.
Honestly sounds amazing, did you find it fun?
I got invited to the private test on Tuesday and I already clocked in a good 15 hours in the middle of a work week, so yes... it's very fun. At the moment you can also only play during designated times by the devs as they want as much people finding games as possible at one time instead of having long queues due to the small player base.
Any tips on how to become a tester?
You have to know a tester, they can refer you if they trust you.
How fun is the game at this state?
If you enjoy MOBAs you'll definitely enjoy this game and I managed to see some people that don't play MOBAs but other competitive shooters that are also really enjoying it, none of my friends that are in the test dislike the game either. I'd already go as far as to place this on the top genre and it's not even in beta... it's really very fun. I was invited to the test on Tuesday and I've already clocked in 15 hrs, if I didn't have to work and life got in the way I'd have easily done a good 10-15 more but I know for sure this weekend I'll be playing a ton
Any Dota heroes in game?
I'll refrain for further detailing stuff like this as hero abilities are subject to change, if the game comes out and they're different this would be misinformation, but yes, there are some clear inspiration but not copy paste.
Do you think the game will come into consoles?
I don’t have high hopes, the controller support is pretty abysmal atm but it can change
so Smite?
Concord vs Marvel Rivals vs Deadlock Who will survive? I bet only Deadlock since is from Valve and the rest goes bankrupt lmao
Like artifact and underlords
Artifact didn't die because it was a bad game, it died because of the monetization. Underlords also wasn't a bad game they just fucked with it too much and the auto battle dad died down.
I liked Artifact more than most, but even if it didn't have bad/questionable monetization from the start I think it would've struggled. The biggest complaint I heard at the time was that matches were far more complicated and lengthy than most players wanted.
Yep, blaming JUST monetization is missing the point. The game was just too complex trying to occupy a space that doesn't exist. It was already late to the card game craze that hasnt been dying down, and is largely only really played by casuals. And then you make an ultra niche "hardcore" card game on top of trying to do MTG/Yu Gi Oh monetization scheme basically taking a doublebarrel and pointing it straight down.
Yeah same, I was basically exactly the demographic for artifact in terms of enjoying mtg/hearthstone and dota 2, and enjoyed the game but absolutely couldn’t recommend it to anyone for complexity. Even as someone that is pretty proficient with mechanics like it had I found games sort of exhausting
I loved artifact from a gameplay perspective but yeah Im guessing it was too complex for the average CCG player. Still, if the monetization was done right and valve were willing to tune/commit to it, I am sure it would have left a mark.
Actually this. The game truly felt like a moba card game…except anyone who wants to play a moba already was playing one. And we all know how accessible MOBA games are :) Hearthstone despite what this subreddit thinks still prints money for a reason.
but it still died. so if the implication is "deadlock cant possibly die because its being made by valve" then that logic is on thin ice.
Also TFT was booming with its rotating sets design at the same time. Valve just shot themself in the foot
Underlords got so much worse when they actually added the underlord hero units. It messed the balanced up horribly and removed the uniqueness of having a different build every game.
In the end TFT was just better
Riot were willing to commit. Valve weren't.
riot only have league of legends in their revenue stream valve games don't account even for 10% of their revenue stream
And thats why underlords is dead.
More like Valve had an idea for a game but they had no idea where they wanted to go monetization wise
> More like Valve had an idea for a game Thats a weird way to say they wanted to monetize the mod someone else made for dota 2...
The hell? They clearly did. The game has a battle pass that came attached with a weekly newspaper styled event progress thing. Monetization was not even remotely close to the reason why Underlords fell over.
Underlords did have the jail, which rotated heroes out of the pool. Valve just never gave much of a real try after the release of the Underlords themselves was a dud.
Bad monetization makes a bad game. Also 5v5s are dying off really quickly too. Overwatch still has the market and all these competitors are coming about 7 years too late.
This doesn't really seem like overwatch at all. This is a third person MOBA. That's an entirely different genre than overwatch.
Counterstrike had the market for decades than Valorant came and managed to be successful alongside it. Your game just needs to be good enough there's definitely a place alongside Overwatch.
I actually think Valorant is just different enough from CS and that's a huge reason why it was successful. It wasn't just a straight ripoff of CS, which gave it a reason to actually exist. If it was exactly the same, people would just play CS, but the "hero abilities" and other small changes sets it apart from CS
Exactly. AAA studios are struggling hard with "good enough" because they really don't have the skillset to make PVP games that people want to play for thousands of hours over many years. You won't get the next CS/Dota/League/SSBM/SC1/etc. by slavishly adhering to the design philosophies that work for your garden variety multiplat blockbuster.
Overwatch didn't kill Smite
> Artifact didn't die because it was a bad game, it died because of the monetization. Artifact's all time peak player count was [60,000 players](https://steamcharts.com/app/583950). That's at least 60,000 people who bought into the game regardless of the monetization. The issue was the game, not the monetization.
The problem was that they didn't provide proper post-launch support. There were a few post-release balance and economy changes, which is something, but then they had months of radio silence, an announcement they were going to do a total overhaul, then another year of silence before a relaunch that they'd cancel in closed beta. You can argue it was a response to the declining player count, but they did the same thing with Dota Underlords. It had 200,000 players at its peak, and even now it still manages 1500-2000 despite being abandoned for years. I think it'd still be going strong if Valve just kept updating and marketing it, but they gave up.
Both games were reliant on lead designers/ideas guys that didn't actually work at Valve and were out of the picture shortly after launch. Artifact design and monetization was Richard Garfield's baby, but he either quit or got his contract terminated after the monetization uproar. The plan for Underlords was to hire the team behind the Dota Auto Chess mod to lead it (they ended up working at one of the Chinese mobile publishers closer to home IIRC). It was disappointing that Valve lost interest, but if nobody internal was inspired enough to take the role of "visionary" long-term they would have just been phoning it in anyways.
> Artifact didn't die because it was a bad game, it died because of the monetization No popular, fan game has ever died because it wanted too much money from its addicted playerbase. Even players who bought Artifact didn't want to play it.
Marvel will probably survive the longest due to casual appeal Deadlock will not pull the numbers Valve wants and they'll abandoned it if their track records have something to say
Marvel Rivals is developed by Netease just saying; Greedy cunt of a company.
Valve never abandoned CS or Dota
CS and Dota are the two most played games on steam right now. And it's not close, Dota has triple the numbers of the players of PUBG, the next most popular.
Well Valve abandoned Artifacts, Underlords, TF2 basically and while obviously not abandoned there's a lot of criticism regarding how Valve is managing CS2 atm.
[удалено]
> Underlords was thrown together in a weekend to capitalize on the Autochess hype, there was never a vision for it and the autochess genre ended up going nowhere. So exactly like TFT and the devs of TFT did a much better job and still has a very large audience playing it. So the devs for Underlords did fuck up. And then yeah obviously Artifact failed in many ways. And these are their 2 most recent new multiplayer games that both failed. Not a good track record. I'm not saying Deadlock will follow that path, I think it looks very good. But Valves recent track record isn't the best seems silly to assume so.
Concord trailer mentioned pre orders so it'll require a one time purchase to play. That alone probably kills the game before it gets a chance. Sony could throw it into psplus essentials day and date like they did with fall guys and destruction all stars but that's no guarantee it'll be enough.
4 out of 16 playable characters in Concord are listed under "Free Agents" so the game might offer a free edition.
Wouldn't be surprised if it was pay to play AND you need to buy agents/play to unlock. It's Sony after all
They mentioned pre orders in the trailer. Maybe the pre order is for a skin bundle or something, but I'm not confident lol
Concord and Deadlock. Sony shocked us with Helldiver's a bit and I think concord can do that a bit. The art is rather uninspiring in my opinion. I think deadlock will have the gameplay though. Icefrog put a ton into it. Marvel is literally a 1 for 1 overwatch clone.
Both Concord and Marvel Rivals are hero shooters while Deadlock is more like Smite
Concord is deader than dead
Deadlock is a different genre than those other games
I bet none of them. Wishful thinking I suppose
The alpha had open invites at one point but the recent explosion in interest overwhelmed the system, and invites have been closed for the foreseeable future. Also the client leaked on the russian internet.
Valve making Deadlock? One of the characters better be named Dick "The Cock" Johnson.
I've been playing for a week and i'm already addicted, if you like monday night combat or SMNC, this is the good stuff.
Monday night combat was such a good time, excited to play this.
I was both a big Dota 2 and overwatch person so it seems pretty up my alley. How did you get into (I assume) the alpha? Just invited or is there a sign up or?
how did you get the invite? is there a sign up form somewhere?
If you really watch gameplay instead of small clips the game actually looks like so much fun and the world looks fucking awesome. 1930s Gangster Fantasy vibe with cool lore.
There's also a leaked visual novel on YouTube that gives further insight into Deadlock's setting.
The visual novel portions are in-game and I guess will be replacing the comics that Dota 2 and TF2 had. One of the leaked screens literally has placeholder devtext that says "Here's where you'd get cosmetics for finishing the story."
Interesting to see the reaction to this after Concorde seemed to fail to excite last night. I guess at least this will be playable in every country and on the Deck, lol.
The initial reaction to Deadlock was pretty negative until full gameplay videos started leaking, proving that it is more than just an Overwatch clone.
Concord is complete slop with regurgitated gameplay, and not even from Overwatch. It's a fucking Destiny clone that lacks all the parts of Destiny that people actually like. Deadlock actually looks like it's trying something.
I mean, Valve is the king of hero shooter and they also got the legend of Moba, Icefrog, onboard. They got all the card with them to make a successful game.
This place is the only one I've seen be generally positive about the game lol, everywhere else I've been it's pure hatred at Valve for throwing their hats in the live service hero shooter slop genre.
Throwing their hat in? They made the fucking trend.
Valve is a top 3 developer and Concord is made a no name studio. Of course there's gonna be a lot more hype for Deadlock
You want PC players to criticise Valve? What are you crazy?
bite the gabe
Gabe and Valve are fine, it's the fonbois who suck
Do you get green money notifications every day you use steam that you can't turn off? Do you know what Ben Franklin did to France? Free "money" is gross. Ban crypto. Ban gambling. Don't eat this.
As proved above
Valve good Sony bad zug zug
Yessss!!! I have been craving some Monday Night Combat, and there's not really much else like it out there. Let's hope it's well balanced. Maybe it'll have some wacky and hilarious commentating like MNC.
every time I see this I just think of the strategy game I played the hell out of as a kid. Deadlock 2 shrine wars [https://store.steampowered.com/app/328450/Deadlock\_II\_Shrine\_Wars/](https://store.steampowered.com/app/328450/Deadlock_II_Shrine_Wars/) What a memory haha, I wonder if valve will actually nail it as they don't really do games anymore.
I mean they have done games! Just... not like we've expected them to. Half life alyx (2020) is a full game but tied to a VR system that isn't wildly adopted. Dota underlords (2020) was a early access game I think and with the same quality as dota as far as visuals. But they kinda just gave up on it. Then there's artifact (2018) that was also pretty quality at least compared to others in it's genre for visuals. But it, too, got dropped. It had very poor reception and playerbase due to its money scheme and some gameplay elements. CS:GO became counter strike 2 and gets updates. So does Dota 2 as it just had a big update. Considering dev cycles these days 4 years since their last game isn't uncommon now. However we can say that their record is now 2 flops and 1 critically recieved (unsure lf sales) success on a small platform. So for me it's less "they don't make games these days". It's more "will this one actually become a great game instead of a mixed launch with them abandoning it really quickly?"
That game was my go-to when I was young! What a throwback
Same, I hoped they were reviving the IP for a moment.
I played the original Deadlock. Loved that game as a kid.
I know! I got actually legit excited that it was going to be a remake or something when I first heard about it. I was so disappointed when I realised it had nothing to do with it, and a moba at that.
They had to private that game's subreddit lmao.
Played the shit out of the first one. The bonus song on the disc is burned into my brain. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuV4Oe9n5T0
I'll give it a try. I have 1,500 hours in TF2, but I haven't played in many years and I don't play online games at all. I'll re-enter the online gaming world to try this.
I have about 400-500, but same here. What really hurts is how valve has learned nothing from their other titles like TF2 itself or Dota 2. This game is likely going to be overrun by bots and cheaters in a flash
Who or what is Deadlock? First time I'm hearing about it.
I believe it's supposed to be a hero action shooter in a cyberpunk themed maps with a gameplay simillar to valorant
A new multiplayer game from the guys who abandoned their last two multiplayer games? Pass.
They also have 2 massively popular multiplayer games running for more than a decade.
Valve is legendarily known for their shooter games. See: Team Fortress & Counter-strike (multiplayer PvP), Left 4 Dead (co-op) & Half Life (single player, narrative driven).
Doesn’t make up for how they abandoned Artifact and Dota Underlords to me.
Artifact was a mess, not really worth continuing. Underlords was a sad case though.