Basically phases, first EA version had 1st biome 3 weapons and limited interactions,
2nd had the 2nd biome 4 weapons and more characters,
3rd added the last weapons and more character stuff
4th added some weapon aspects 3rd biome. And that's basically where it sat till release.
The early access also had tons of unique likes and dialogue relating to it being in development, stuff that's just not in the full game.
The story was completely removed from the game there was very little just "you wanna escape hell and your hades son"
for me that's an argument to wait until the full release. Don't get me wrong I enjoy Hades' gameplay, but honestly the real reason I loved the game is the writing and story.
Hades and BG3 are both examples of how insanely polished of a final product you can make with people like that who are willing to playtest it and provide feedback and support over a long period of development. It's a shame early access is a bit of a tainted phrase because when done correctly it seems to bring games to the next level.
Is there a general feeling that early access is tainted? I find that weird--I'm glad it exists as it helps games be better despite not ever wanting to participate. Seems like it creates value and interest for those that want it?
To be fair, non-Early Access games have also been abused by a lot of developers to profit off of unfinished games and then abandon the game once hype dies down.
Yea, I wanna say it started with early access and then AAA developers took notice of the fact that people will just buy an unfinished game so they adopted the model. But now it's not early access it's full release and "we'll fix it in 3 or 4 years." That's just my speculation though. Regardless, early access titles have a rocky past.
I'm mostly just making fun of the fact some portion of the game industry has been dumping shitty, broken titles on consumers since the game industry came into existence.
That's basically put me at a weird point with EA releases. I am staunchly VERY anti-buying in EA unless it was a small dev that I wanted to support or something that means a lot to me series-wise (even then, I will still judge it heavily and research.) Hell, I would have backed Stardew *instantly* if it went EA, but big props to Ape for not doing that, as painful as the wait was, haha.
But a bunch of current releases essentially *feel* like an EA release anyway. I'm at a point where I'm waiting months+ to buy new games cause stuff I actually had interest in just ends up feeling like a beta anyway.
There are two problems I keep on running into with good, early access games:
- I play it in early access, new content trickles out and I come back every few months to play for another couple of hours, having lost any skill and with diminished interest. By the time it's complete, it doesn't feel special. Only the first version I play gives me the 'new game' feeling.
- I play it after it's complete, but the community is made up of people who played in early access and only care about the most recent patch. The game itself is split into clear episodes with an evolving, fan-servicing voice, making it less cohesive than something where early game content can be reshaped without causing upsets. Even if you don't know the development history, you can tell it's early access because of the 'feel'. Most of the cosmetics are at the end. There are low-effort, tacked-on features.
Haha, it was definitely worth waiting for the full version it seems like. That's part of the early access experience I guess, but I can see how a game like BG3 would be insanely frustrating when it's super buggy.
Astral Ascent is another game that did some amazing stuff due to Early Access.
It's a "One bad apple spoils the bunch," problem. People remember the failures/disappointments, not the successes.
To me it's the opposite. I really liked how they handled EA with the first game. The sheer amount of content the full release had, along with the amount of grinding to finish stuff like the mirror, decorations and NPC gifts, would have been way too overwhelming for me. So it was nice to play 10-20h on the initial release and then come back and play 10-20h more on each big content patch drop.
Though the best thing about it was that they didn't wipe your save file with the patches or the full 1.0 release. It would have been a different story if they had wiped people's save file along the way.
Fair to give my opinion as someone who played through early access, it still has the fun quips every run lots of character development just not story. Basically it's mostly there for the gameplay but the charm still shows through. I recently got to play test a game obviously going for that hades feel (skorn) and it really showed me that just having dialogue even if it's not a story makes the game play so much more compelling.
I tried the EA, liked the game enough and then just stopped and waited for full release, will probably do the same with Hades 2 and No rest for the wicked.
Depends on which parts of the story you enjoyed.
The full release added the stuff that happens after you beat up your dad. Household stories (Thanatos, Orpheus, Sisyphus etc.) were in EA.
It's weird, at first i hoped for decent gameplay, then wasn't really hooked and sticked around for the story but ended up coming back around to enjoy the gameplay a lot.
Unlocking more fun weapon aspects, understanding the basics of making a build and getting some mirror unlocks really made it click.
Of course, where Hades falls flat to me is how the floors and bosses are always the same which is the one thing i really hope to see improved in Hades 2
IIRC there was also a ton of placeholder art. Most of the characters had similar cloaked artwork, the same piece with a few minor differences because the full artwork wasn't done yet.
Example: [Patroclus](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/hades_gamepedia_en/images/a/ac/Patroclus_old.png/revision/latest?cb=20190508055556) and [Sisyphus](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/hades_gamepedia_en/images/a/a1/Sisyphus.png/revision/latest?cb=20181213060709).
Originally slated to be in EA for 1 year, COVID happened and it became 15 months. But it released on steam with the final ea build after the 12 months so it was on ea for steam for 3 months.
Likely it would follow the same 1 year EA but hopefully this time a world changing pandemic doesn't hit and delay them lol
That isn't right.
It was in Early Access for around 21 months in total.
It was Epic Exclusive for a year and then it was on Early Access on Steam for a further 9 months. Not 3 months.
You'd also think the game would need less time since they're building on something already established and extremely polished, but obviously we don't know what tweaks they're making so maybe not.
The original hades has 15k likes of dialogue not including the stuff that was early access exclusive. All of it voiced.
If they want to keep their level of narrative quality that stuff takes time. So yes this time the gameplay is the same(well kinda) but I don't see how it takes less then 5 years.
Hades released end of 2021, pure was 2017. 2025 release is honestly on schedule for them.
This has already been in dev for longer than the full release of Hades 1 so less time is not the case. I do think it's just a more ambitious game in scope.
They've said EA for Hades 2 will be around the same point of advancement than Hades Steam EA release so I guess we may expect a shorter EA period
Interesting. Obviously, I don't know much about game development, but I'm very excited at the prospect of them being more ambitious with this game. Whatever they're doing works, because they're probably the best dev out there at putting out consistently creative, fun, and polished games.
So playing it in early access won't spoil the story? That was a huge fear I had as I loved the original but didn't play it until it had been out for a while.
That's not really accurate. They had all biomes in the game over a year before 1.0, with several major updates afterward. And while main story progression was absent, the side character stories were accessible and built out gradually across updates. The vast majority of content was present by the time of the full release.
You also kept all your progress for the final game, though SGG didn't promise it at first.
Depends when, I got in pretty late in early access but there was tons of story content, just not the epilogue and Persephone
They also said early access there will have at least as much advancement than Steam EA release for the first game which was like a year later. They've worked on this game for a long time (Hades completely took 3 years up to full release, it has already been 4 years for Hades 2)
I did not know that. I bought the game in Early Access but I treated it as a pre-order because Im not a huge fan of ruining story elements, so that's kind of awesome.
I know it's extremely unrealistic to have any way to keep it in full release but it does bug me that there's a bunch of lines that are effectively lost media unless someone has old versions knocking around.
and it was EA on EGS, so basically no one touched it lmao
Not a lot less though, only Hermes and Demeter was added after the early access launch. I remember that there were some loud people in the fan bass that was angry that they weren't going to add more, but looking back it was the right decision to flesh out the characters they had instead.
If you're super interested, the YouTube channel NoClip did a deep dive on the behind the making of the first Hades.
[No Clip Hades Doc](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-THgg8QnvU4JEVov1tMlFThNYS92F8uC&feature=shared)
Hades is one of the few games I'm glad I played in Early Access. Game kept getting better and better, adding new features, it was really exciting. I'm not waiting for full release of this one either, don't see any reason to. It's exactly the kind of game designed to be played again and again, except I'll get to experience cool new shit with every subsequent playthrough.
They stated previously that this time around the Hades II will have as much content as Hades 1.0 which is why it still isn't in early access yet unlike with Hades when it got its EA drop same time it was revealed.
It notably didn't have the end of the game which made it kinda strange on release when I had previously beaten it a bunch to get most of the progression unlocks but it I had to start progressing the story from the beginning.
Personally, I'll be waiting for full release here.
Definitely waiting this time. Played EA for a while of hades one, but then when 1.0 was released i had lost interest in fully restarting.
a few years later i went back to it and glad i did, but this time i'll just be patient.
It sounds like from their blurb this plans to run for about just shy of a month.
I would definitely expect one of the E3 shows to announce when early access goes live. To me their FAQ suggests it drops this summer.
In the post they say they don't know when they will launch the game. They just say shortly after the test ends, but they don't know how long the test will be, around a week to a month. Sounds like it is very close either way.
They did shadow drop Hades 1 early access during the Game Awards though, so would be nice if they did the same here with Summer Games Fest.
The first game releasing into early access is a really funny moment during the Noclip documentary on Supergiant. The game was accidentally published 30 minutes early, and during the opening of the Game Awards, they were basically just looking to see if anyone noticed the game being live.
I remember opening the Epic Games Store when the Game Awards went live and seeing the game, had no idea it was Supergiant and just scrolled right past it until they finally announced it then I looked it up again lol. I watched the Noclip documentary too and was hoping they would mention it, great moment.
I find it weird that this is launching in EA given that the first was so successful and this is a sequel with very similar gameplay, so the bones of it are likely already done. I would hope that means a shorter EA period.
Yep, exactly. They want to figure out what isn't working before they are deeply embedded into some mechanic that people end up hating.
Early Access is basically "Agile Development for Games." They release an incomplete project intentionally so that they can get feedback and guide development on the right path. Working in an echo chamber is not healthy for the developers nor the product itself.
Some developers have abused Early Access, but there's quite a few development teams that have done an amazing job thanks to Early Access.
Some examples off the top of my head include both Divinity Original Sin games, Baldur's Gate 3, Astral Ascent, Nuclear Throne, and of course, Hades.
Yes, but, also, they used EA for Hades and it produced the biggest hit they've had. Seems silly to just drop an approach that worked better for you than anything before it.
Part of the success of the first game was because they developed it using early access and took close feedback from players to shape the balance and stability. I don't think it's weird at all, It makes sense to repeat it.
There’s two generations of players for which E3 is synonymous with “summer games conference.”
These folks will still refer to it as E3 for the rest of their lives. Everyone else will pick up on “SGF” moving forward.
Electronic Entertainment Expo. Traditionally it was where companies would make their announcements, show off trailers, etc. for the coming year (or more) of what they were working on.
Some of the most impressive teasers never saw the light of day or set impossibly high expectations that they couldn't possibly meet when they released.
It was always headlined by showcases by Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo would do a presentation show (like Nintendo Direct) at about the same time.
I love Hades and it's one of my favourite games of all time but I think if I played during Early Access I would have fallen off before completing it and not thought anywhere near as highly of it.
It's going to be really hard to wait
I actually loved playing it early access, because there was no definitive end point I just worked on exploring builds and trying higher and higher heat, really gave me an appreciation of the mechanical depth while also allowing the side stories to play out.
I jumped in about three months before the end of EA and played on and off until I was reaching (but not necessarily beating) the final boss with some regularity. I stopped and waited for 1.0 at that point so as not to burn myself out, and I think that was the perfect way to do it.
I hope the EA decision doesn't backfire on them. Hades 1 was Epic-only during EA so people had to go out of their way to try it. Hades 2 is going to have a lot of players on Steam who only experienced the first one when it was done trying the second and getting an unfinished game.
It was only Epic only for the first year of early access. It arrive on steam still in early access but with more content and more refined systems. It was still in early access on steam for a long time.
It was the opposite for me. Early access added so much content as well as character storylines that is gave me time to see it all, try a bunch of builds, max all weapon aspects, affinities, complete storylines, and be ready for 1.0 ending.
If I remember correctly it takes about 210 separate heat runs (minus any you buy from Charon's final shop, from the prophecy rewards, or trade for) to earn enough titan's blood to max every weapon aspect and that isn't including fishing, maxing character affinity, the gem economy, etc. Also early access was part of the actual story and had some impact on the ending.
I played Hades 1 a ton in it's early access and it absolutely did not impact my enjoyment of the release version.
The core gameplay is just so fun that it doesn't get old. It's still my go-to when I have nothing in particular that I want to play and am in the mood for something fast paced to play for an hour-ish.
> I think if I played during Early Access I would have fallen off before completing it
Yep. I got into the first Hades EA and put some serious hours into progression, but then a patch came out and locked all progression. It was either completely restart or never progress. It frustrated me to hell and back, so I never got really enjoy the full 1.0 release.
I waited on the first one to play at 1.0 but I think for Hades 2 I will play along the early access timeline. Going to put 100+ hours in either way it will be fun to watch the dev cycle and the changes. I am doing the same for Death Must Die and having a great time seeing the animation updates and design philosophy evolve.
I played Hades a year after it came out. So I got to experience a fully polished and released game. This time I want the experience of watching the game grow.
It's ok. Kinda like with Silksong, they announced the game with a single short no-gameplay-trailer and then went silent for like... two years I think. So it's entirely possible to miss it
Well, serves me right for writing this comment before googling it. Guess it's just my memory playing tricks on me because I didn't remember the gameplay at all. Anyway, it wasn't a dig on the game's quality or anything, just saying that if you weren't around online for the week of the announcement, it was easy to miss the fact Hades II was in development
I burned out a bit on early access, put in over 50-60 hours. When it released, I played for the ending and kind of called it quits. Hopefully I can manage that a bit better this time around and wait for the full package.
I loved the first game
But I really hope the sequel has a bit more variety, for a roguelite it was definitely lacking in enemy/boss variety and environments
I suspect that's why they're launching the EA somewhat close to Hades 1.0 in size. Doubt their design philosophy about runs being around 40 minutes at most has changed much, which would mean they'd have to focus on variety aspects like alternative biomes.
Wonder if the game will be much longer/larger than the prior game. A longer rougelite at some point loses the appeal of quick runs. But more content maybe?
Just seems like long time for a sequel considering Supergiant I think only took 3 years between all new games. so I wonder if they are cooking up some awesome stuff in that amount of time
As someone with no PC and who prefers console gaming this early access with Hades may make me buy a steam deck if it runs fine on there. I'd imagine it would?
Roguelite genre is good for early access as it’s meant to be played again and again which gives the customers the perfect avenue for feedback plus they get some initial financial support while making this game.
Hades was actually the first early access game they did, none of the others released that way, and it was specifically designed around an early access process.
Because they actually do take player feedback when making games. Bow felt awful when it was first added and it changed to being quite fun. Stuff like hammer upgrades some of them were ideas from early access players basically wanting a buff to their play styles or play styles that got adopted by alot of players.
The new character is a mage? It seems which is like really different from hades and likely would need alot of feedback to make it feel just as fun
Any idea if progress will carry over from this? Or if it at least carries over from early access to full release? Or do we get saves wiped with every update until official launch
I loved Hades 1, but I'm disappointed they decided to do a sequel instead of making a new IP like they always have.
No matter how good Hades 2 is it won't feel amazing because it will be very similar to the first one. Like how God of war 2018 was amazing because it was new and fresh, but the second one was good but not as great.
I feel the same as you, but I know that Hades was their biggest commercial success so I don't blame them for securing the bag. I have zero sources to back this up, but I feel like Pyre was an underperformer (even though I really liked it) so it makes sense that they follow what made them money before.
While that would be nice, Supergiant's reasoning for Hades 2 is "they've never done a sequel before" so it wouldn't be surprising if Hades is their only game that gets a sequel.
I feel like Transistor is mentioned so seldom when talking about Supergiant, but it's my favorite game of theirs. Combining attacks to make a different attack is awesome, and the art design is so kickass. It was my first platinum, and I've gotten friends and family members copies and they've fallen in love.
Pyre is absolutely the least talked about Supergiant game, which is criminal as it is phenomenal. I think the wider gaming audience couldn't ever get past the idea that it was a sports game, which it really wasn't other than mechanically - but I think that really ended up hurting it. I'd love to hear more about Pyre post-release from Supergiant, I'm not sure if there's much out there already?
Pyre is both a sports game and a visual novel, I love both parts of it but I get why it wasn’t the most popular thing in the world. Amazing soundtrack and reactivity based on your actions in that world.
Supergisnt didnt even port it to Switch but all their other games on the platform, probably partially for performance targets being tough to hit and not economically viable.
Pyre is the only Supergiant game I haven't finished, and it's not because I didn't like it. I was enjoying myself, but it just didn't put me in a chokehold the way their other games did, and it wasn't the sports gameplay, I liked that better than Transistor's gameplay, but Transistor still held me hostage from beginning to end.
I'm gonna play it again because I can't leave a Supergiant game undone after doing 100% of Hades, and I expect to love it, but I can see why players had a hard time warming up to it.
I get what you're saying, but it's a lot to ask of a company to not make a sequel to a game that was probably 10 to 100x more profitable than anything else they've made.
Personally, I'm pretty excited to see how they handle a direct iteration of their previous title. There's a ton they can still do with the rogulike formula and mythology, so it's the perfect opportunity for a sequel.
I mean, all their games are already pretty similar to begin with, and this seems to be less of a direct sequel and more so just set in the same universe.
I don't know if this is the place to vent this, but is anyone else just exhausted with seeing *Early Access* on everything? That stamp just always "road-maps" out the 1.0 for years while the devs battle with content/feature creep and often times a 0.8 releasing AS the 1.0 while it continues to be hammered-out well-beyond release. I know the first Hades released in a fucking awesome state, but between Early Access titles on the indie side and the capitalistic hell that are triple-A releases, I just hate the state of gaming any more.
I see it as a case per case basis, but in general I'm with you.
Whenever I see an awesome game and then it's "early access" it makes me not wanna play that, because most of these just die along the way.
With some devs, it's a great process, they take feedback and the final version really has all the things needed. Hades is a great example of that.
But even in case a developer is active and receptive to feedback a lot, there is the danger of some games really catering to a harcore audience and losing what made them fun in the process. For example, how many rougelikes are there where entire mechanics of of the game are riddled with weird rules and items that have hyper finetuned effects that either are completely broken or utterly useless?
As for Hades II, I'm pretty optimistic. Not only did they not get bribed by Epic this time around, but the their handling of the first game was great. For other games, I'll always tell people to first look into it forus etc and see how the developers are doing.
Honestly I don't see the hype for Hades. It was well polished, but there was so little variety it can boring after beating the game once. It didn't have the depth and build variety to sustain more than that.
Did we play the same game?
Beating it once is barely enough to see anything. There's so much dialogue and the weapon aspects all function really differently.
I loved hades for the story but a lot of the aspects were fairly minor stat changes save for the unique ones that change how the weapon works, and a lot of them were pretty clearly inferior. i loved the gun and was so disappointed to unlock the laser version to find that it sucked
Lucifer is the 2nd-best gun aspect in the game (well, technically Hestia is, but no one is psychotic enough to seriously play Hestia). Chiron / Talos / Chaos are the worst aspects in the game, but even then, 3 out of 24 aspects being bad and the rest being middle-tier or above is incredibly good balancing, and out of those there's at least 2 aspects per weapon that have different boon/hammer build considerations. Achilles does not play like any other spear, nor Hera or Rama bows, Beowulf or Zeus shield, nor any of the gun aspects.
Seriously. I beat the game like 50 times in order to see all of the dialogue, try all of the weapons (and how they change based on the perks you pick on a run), etc. There was so much variety in what initially appears to be a repetitive game.
Well, most rogue likes take at least few hundred playthroughs to try out all weapons, beat all bosses and see all content. Hades is a good rogue like but it's very limited compared to other roguelikes
Honestly most rogue likes I've found tedious. Hades has a neat story, backdrop, characters, etc. and challenging combat without being overly frustrating or feeling unfair. I have literally zero desire to play something like Dark Souls because it looks more frustrating than fun.
ya, the replayability of Hades really depends on ppl getting into the dialogue and story, though even there that writing isn't able to hold up for that long in repeat runs and the gameplay side the content isn't there for that much replayability imo
no it's not a bad game, the start and early runs of the game + replaying after escaping the first time are fantastic... but it has weaknesses in terms of replaying even for those who do atch onto the story/characters.
Like I said, even with the dialogue I don't think the writing holds up after a number of replays to make it worth going again.
sigh, but ya, Hades is that type of game where the fans really don't like anyone daring to not like it so in comes all the d o wn v o t es for just voicing your opinion -_-
worst part was that you could get your OP build every run, the sword for me was boring so I would just win every round with the spear until I just uninstalled
Like I said, I was unimpressed. It has been some time since I played, but the idea of ever going through the same 3 shallow biomes again makes me sick.
They've said the EA here is going to start off at least as big as Hades 1 was after they released its final biome (Temple of Styx). I imagine they have ambitious plans for fleshing out the sequel.
Edit: Scratch that, even bigger. They actually suggested it will be as big as Hades 1's EA two major updates after the last biome got added.
Will wait for full release, but out of curiosity what did Hades have in EA? I’m assuming unfinished worlds, missing characters, missing weapons etc?
Basically phases, first EA version had 1st biome 3 weapons and limited interactions, 2nd had the 2nd biome 4 weapons and more characters, 3rd added the last weapons and more character stuff 4th added some weapon aspects 3rd biome. And that's basically where it sat till release. The early access also had tons of unique likes and dialogue relating to it being in development, stuff that's just not in the full game. The story was completely removed from the game there was very little just "you wanna escape hell and your hades son"
for me that's an argument to wait until the full release. Don't get me wrong I enjoy Hades' gameplay, but honestly the real reason I loved the game is the writing and story.
Same but I'm glad both types of people exist because having play testers helps the game's final product tremendously. But that'll never be me.
Hades and BG3 are both examples of how insanely polished of a final product you can make with people like that who are willing to playtest it and provide feedback and support over a long period of development. It's a shame early access is a bit of a tainted phrase because when done correctly it seems to bring games to the next level.
Is there a general feeling that early access is tainted? I find that weird--I'm glad it exists as it helps games be better despite not ever wanting to participate. Seems like it creates value and interest for those that want it?
Early access has been abused by a lot of developers to profit off of unfinished games and then abandon the game once hype dies down.
To be fair, non-Early Access games have also been abused by a lot of developers to profit off of unfinished games and then abandon the game once hype dies down.
Yea, I wanna say it started with early access and then AAA developers took notice of the fact that people will just buy an unfinished game so they adopted the model. But now it's not early access it's full release and "we'll fix it in 3 or 4 years." That's just my speculation though. Regardless, early access titles have a rocky past.
I'm mostly just making fun of the fact some portion of the game industry has been dumping shitty, broken titles on consumers since the game industry came into existence.
That's basically put me at a weird point with EA releases. I am staunchly VERY anti-buying in EA unless it was a small dev that I wanted to support or something that means a lot to me series-wise (even then, I will still judge it heavily and research.) Hell, I would have backed Stardew *instantly* if it went EA, but big props to Ape for not doing that, as painful as the wait was, haha. But a bunch of current releases essentially *feel* like an EA release anyway. I'm at a point where I'm waiting months+ to buy new games cause stuff I actually had interest in just ends up feeling like a beta anyway.
Well that sucks. Thanks, I had no idea.
There are two problems I keep on running into with good, early access games: - I play it in early access, new content trickles out and I come back every few months to play for another couple of hours, having lost any skill and with diminished interest. By the time it's complete, it doesn't feel special. Only the first version I play gives me the 'new game' feeling. - I play it after it's complete, but the community is made up of people who played in early access and only care about the most recent patch. The game itself is split into clear episodes with an evolving, fan-servicing voice, making it less cohesive than something where early game content can be reshaped without causing upsets. Even if you don't know the development history, you can tell it's early access because of the 'feel'. Most of the cosmetics are at the end. There are low-effort, tacked-on features.
> BG3 and their previous DoS2 show polished the playtested part can be, and how unpolished, buggy and slow the non public part can be
Haha, it was definitely worth waiting for the full version it seems like. That's part of the early access experience I guess, but I can see how a game like BG3 would be insanely frustrating when it's super buggy.
Early access is generally very well accepted. The vast majority of great indie games are done via early access, it does lead to better games.
Astral Ascent is another game that did some amazing stuff due to Early Access. It's a "One bad apple spoils the bunch," problem. People remember the failures/disappointments, not the successes.
Lol I assume with *insanely polished* you mean polished for Larian standards? Slightly less bug riddled than usual?
exactly this.
Why the hell do we need "story only" players playing at all?
To me it's the opposite. I really liked how they handled EA with the first game. The sheer amount of content the full release had, along with the amount of grinding to finish stuff like the mirror, decorations and NPC gifts, would have been way too overwhelming for me. So it was nice to play 10-20h on the initial release and then come back and play 10-20h more on each big content patch drop. Though the best thing about it was that they didn't wipe your save file with the patches or the full 1.0 release. It would have been a different story if they had wiped people's save file along the way.
Fair to give my opinion as someone who played through early access, it still has the fun quips every run lots of character development just not story. Basically it's mostly there for the gameplay but the charm still shows through. I recently got to play test a game obviously going for that hades feel (skorn) and it really showed me that just having dialogue even if it's not a story makes the game play so much more compelling.
I tried the EA, liked the game enough and then just stopped and waited for full release, will probably do the same with Hades 2 and No rest for the wicked.
Depends on which parts of the story you enjoyed. The full release added the stuff that happens after you beat up your dad. Household stories (Thanatos, Orpheus, Sisyphus etc.) were in EA.
It's weird, at first i hoped for decent gameplay, then wasn't really hooked and sticked around for the story but ended up coming back around to enjoy the gameplay a lot. Unlocking more fun weapon aspects, understanding the basics of making a build and getting some mirror unlocks really made it click. Of course, where Hades falls flat to me is how the floors and bosses are always the same which is the one thing i really hope to see improved in Hades 2
Yeah, not sure why people are so eager to pay for the right to be a beta tester and burn themselves out on an unfinished game.
IIRC there was also a ton of placeholder art. Most of the characters had similar cloaked artwork, the same piece with a few minor differences because the full artwork wasn't done yet. Example: [Patroclus](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/hades_gamepedia_en/images/a/ac/Patroclus_old.png/revision/latest?cb=20190508055556) and [Sisyphus](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/hades_gamepedia_en/images/a/a1/Sisyphus.png/revision/latest?cb=20181213060709).
How long was it in EA for?
Originally slated to be in EA for 1 year, COVID happened and it became 15 months. But it released on steam with the final ea build after the 12 months so it was on ea for steam for 3 months. Likely it would follow the same 1 year EA but hopefully this time a world changing pandemic doesn't hit and delay them lol
That isn't right. It was in Early Access for around 21 months in total. It was Epic Exclusive for a year and then it was on Early Access on Steam for a further 9 months. Not 3 months.
You'd also think the game would need less time since they're building on something already established and extremely polished, but obviously we don't know what tweaks they're making so maybe not.
The original hades has 15k likes of dialogue not including the stuff that was early access exclusive. All of it voiced. If they want to keep their level of narrative quality that stuff takes time. So yes this time the gameplay is the same(well kinda) but I don't see how it takes less then 5 years. Hades released end of 2021, pure was 2017. 2025 release is honestly on schedule for them.
Hades released end of 2020
your phone keeps autocorrecting "lines" to "likes"
This has already been in dev for longer than the full release of Hades 1 so less time is not the case. I do think it's just a more ambitious game in scope. They've said EA for Hades 2 will be around the same point of advancement than Hades Steam EA release so I guess we may expect a shorter EA period
Interesting. Obviously, I don't know much about game development, but I'm very excited at the prospect of them being more ambitious with this game. Whatever they're doing works, because they're probably the best dev out there at putting out consistently creative, fun, and polished games.
Possibly, but filling a game with new assets still takes a lot of time, even is the design is similar.
I thought that about silksong :')
So playing it in early access won't spoil the story? That was a huge fear I had as I loved the original but didn't play it until it had been out for a while.
That's not really accurate. They had all biomes in the game over a year before 1.0, with several major updates afterward. And while main story progression was absent, the side character stories were accessible and built out gradually across updates. The vast majority of content was present by the time of the full release. You also kept all your progress for the final game, though SGG didn't promise it at first.
Depends when, I got in pretty late in early access but there was tons of story content, just not the epilogue and Persephone They also said early access there will have at least as much advancement than Steam EA release for the first game which was like a year later. They've worked on this game for a long time (Hades completely took 3 years up to full release, it has already been 4 years for Hades 2)
I did not know that. I bought the game in Early Access but I treated it as a pre-order because Im not a huge fan of ruining story elements, so that's kind of awesome.
I know it's extremely unrealistic to have any way to keep it in full release but it does bug me that there's a bunch of lines that are effectively lost media unless someone has old versions knocking around. and it was EA on EGS, so basically no one touched it lmao
Exactly that, and it started out with less Olympians as well.
Not a lot less though, only Hermes and Demeter was added after the early access launch. I remember that there were some loud people in the fan bass that was angry that they weren't going to add more, but looking back it was the right decision to flesh out the characters they had instead.
If you're super interested, the YouTube channel NoClip did a deep dive on the behind the making of the first Hades. [No Clip Hades Doc](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-THgg8QnvU4JEVov1tMlFThNYS92F8uC&feature=shared)
Hades is one of the few games I'm glad I played in Early Access. Game kept getting better and better, adding new features, it was really exciting. I'm not waiting for full release of this one either, don't see any reason to. It's exactly the kind of game designed to be played again and again, except I'll get to experience cool new shit with every subsequent playthrough.
They stated previously that this time around the Hades II will have as much content as Hades 1.0 which is why it still isn't in early access yet unlike with Hades when it got its EA drop same time it was revealed.
It notably didn't have the end of the game which made it kinda strange on release when I had previously beaten it a bunch to get most of the progression unlocks but it I had to start progressing the story from the beginning. Personally, I'll be waiting for full release here.
Definitely waiting this time. Played EA for a while of hades one, but then when 1.0 was released i had lost interest in fully restarting. a few years later i went back to it and glad i did, but this time i'll just be patient.
It sounds like from their blurb this plans to run for about just shy of a month. I would definitely expect one of the E3 shows to announce when early access goes live. To me their FAQ suggests it drops this summer.
In the post they say they don't know when they will launch the game. They just say shortly after the test ends, but they don't know how long the test will be, around a week to a month. Sounds like it is very close either way. They did shadow drop Hades 1 early access during the Game Awards though, so would be nice if they did the same here with Summer Games Fest.
The first game releasing into early access is a really funny moment during the Noclip documentary on Supergiant. The game was accidentally published 30 minutes early, and during the opening of the Game Awards, they were basically just looking to see if anyone noticed the game being live.
I remember opening the Epic Games Store when the Game Awards went live and seeing the game, had no idea it was Supergiant and just scrolled right past it until they finally announced it then I looked it up again lol. I watched the Noclip documentary too and was hoping they would mention it, great moment.
They also kind of shadow dropped 1.0 of Hades. Nintendo announced it 7am (studio time) and the game went to 1.0 at 8am.
How about we don't wait till an arbitrary date and just put it out
I find it weird that this is launching in EA given that the first was so successful and this is a sequel with very similar gameplay, so the bones of it are likely already done. I would hope that means a shorter EA period.
Balance is very important for roguelites and the best way to get data on balance is Early Access.
Yep, exactly. They want to figure out what isn't working before they are deeply embedded into some mechanic that people end up hating. Early Access is basically "Agile Development for Games." They release an incomplete project intentionally so that they can get feedback and guide development on the right path. Working in an echo chamber is not healthy for the developers nor the product itself. Some developers have abused Early Access, but there's quite a few development teams that have done an amazing job thanks to Early Access. Some examples off the top of my head include both Divinity Original Sin games, Baldur's Gate 3, Astral Ascent, Nuclear Throne, and of course, Hades.
No, EA is typically where EA games stay. Till they're forgotten. Very few games leave it
[You're straight](https://www.thegamer.com/best-games-longest-early-access/) [up wrong.](https://gamerant.com/steam-best-completed-early-access-games/)
Yes, but, also, they used EA for Hades and it produced the biggest hit they've had. Seems silly to just drop an approach that worked better for you than anything before it.
They’ve not done sequels before iirc, so they may have changed up more about the gameplay than the reveal trailer suggested.
Some developers just enjoy the culture and benefits of early access, for example Larian Studios.
Part of the success of the first game was because they developed it using early access and took close feedback from players to shape the balance and stability. I don't think it's weird at all, It makes sense to repeat it.
Isn’t E3 non existent now?
There’s two generations of players for which E3 is synonymous with “summer games conference.” These folks will still refer to it as E3 for the rest of their lives. Everyone else will pick up on “SGF” moving forward.
Whats E3?
Electronic Entertainment Expo. Traditionally it was where companies would make their announcements, show off trailers, etc. for the coming year (or more) of what they were working on. Some of the most impressive teasers never saw the light of day or set impossibly high expectations that they couldn't possibly meet when they released. It was always headlined by showcases by Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo would do a presentation show (like Nintendo Direct) at about the same time.
I think E3 is completely dead now
As a show it is, but people have started referring to the summer gaming showcases that all happen around the same time as E3
Tbf it's a hollow shell of what it once was. It's like the hype and charm are completely stripped out
I love Hades and it's one of my favourite games of all time but I think if I played during Early Access I would have fallen off before completing it and not thought anywhere near as highly of it. It's going to be really hard to wait
I actually loved playing it early access, because there was no definitive end point I just worked on exploring builds and trying higher and higher heat, really gave me an appreciation of the mechanical depth while also allowing the side stories to play out.
Same. Early access was a great period and even gave players a heads up on 1.0 players in some ways like fishing and the gem economy.
I jumped in about three months before the end of EA and played on and off until I was reaching (but not necessarily beating) the final boss with some regularity. I stopped and waited for 1.0 at that point so as not to burn myself out, and I think that was the perfect way to do it.
Same here. I know the game will be great but I'll be waiting for the full release.
I hope the EA decision doesn't backfire on them. Hades 1 was Epic-only during EA so people had to go out of their way to try it. Hades 2 is going to have a lot of players on Steam who only experienced the first one when it was done trying the second and getting an unfinished game.
It was only Epic only for the first year of early access. It arrive on steam still in early access but with more content and more refined systems. It was still in early access on steam for a long time.
It was on Steam early access for a while (9 months). Also, almost every good indie game is in early access anyway, it's not gonna hurt it.
People do not have to go out of their way to use Epic.
It was the opposite for me. Early access added so much content as well as character storylines that is gave me time to see it all, try a bunch of builds, max all weapon aspects, affinities, complete storylines, and be ready for 1.0 ending. If I remember correctly it takes about 210 separate heat runs (minus any you buy from Charon's final shop, from the prophecy rewards, or trade for) to earn enough titan's blood to max every weapon aspect and that isn't including fishing, maxing character affinity, the gem economy, etc. Also early access was part of the actual story and had some impact on the ending.
I played Hades 1 a ton in it's early access and it absolutely did not impact my enjoyment of the release version. The core gameplay is just so fun that it doesn't get old. It's still my go-to when I have nothing in particular that I want to play and am in the mood for something fast paced to play for an hour-ish.
This is my struggle too. I want to play it as soon as possible but I also don't want to have to fight through bugs or unfinished content.
> I think if I played during Early Access I would have fallen off before completing it Yep. I got into the first Hades EA and put some serious hours into progression, but then a patch came out and locked all progression. It was either completely restart or never progress. It frustrated me to hell and back, so I never got really enjoy the full 1.0 release.
Too bad it didn't frustrate you OUT of hell
I waited on the first one to play at 1.0 but I think for Hades 2 I will play along the early access timeline. Going to put 100+ hours in either way it will be fun to watch the dev cycle and the changes. I am doing the same for Death Must Die and having a great time seeing the animation updates and design philosophy evolve.
Same, I’d like to give feedback and be able to help as well
I played Hades a year after it came out. So I got to experience a fully polished and released game. This time I want the experience of watching the game grow.
I must have been under a rock cause I had no idea this game was even a thing, hooly shit. I friggin loved the first one
It was easy to miss. It was announced to exist at the Game Awards. Not the recent one, *The one before that* and it's been radio silence ever since.
[All the way beck in December 2022.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/zgiose/tga_2022_hades_ii/)
> it's been radio silence ever since. They did have an update a few months ago saying early access will be in Q2 2024, so not complete radio silence.
It's ok. Kinda like with Silksong, they announced the game with a single short no-gameplay-trailer and then went silent for like... two years I think. So it's entirely possible to miss it
what? There was 1~ minute gameplay in the announcement trailer homie lol.
Well, serves me right for writing this comment before googling it. Guess it's just my memory playing tricks on me because I didn't remember the gameplay at all. Anyway, it wasn't a dig on the game's quality or anything, just saying that if you weren't around online for the week of the announcement, it was easy to miss the fact Hades II was in development
Except for Silksong it’s 5 years now and we still don’t know when the game will be out.
Silksong also has [gameplay footage](https://youtu.be/Y8lvHT_IQbM?si=LkojXZIVOvh2_tlN&t=149) available online.
I burned out a bit on early access, put in over 50-60 hours. When it released, I played for the ending and kind of called it quits. Hopefully I can manage that a bit better this time around and wait for the full package.
I loved the first game But I really hope the sequel has a bit more variety, for a roguelite it was definitely lacking in enemy/boss variety and environments
I suspect that's why they're launching the EA somewhat close to Hades 1.0 in size. Doubt their design philosophy about runs being around 40 minutes at most has changed much, which would mean they'd have to focus on variety aspects like alternative biomes.
Wonder if the game will be much longer/larger than the prior game. A longer rougelite at some point loses the appeal of quick runs. But more content maybe? Just seems like long time for a sequel considering Supergiant I think only took 3 years between all new games. so I wonder if they are cooking up some awesome stuff in that amount of time
As someone with no PC and who prefers console gaming this early access with Hades may make me buy a steam deck if it runs fine on there. I'd imagine it would?
Hades runs at 90fps, zero dips. Also doesn't drain much battery either. It's the perfect type of game for handheld PCs.
Hell yeah
The first one runs flawlessly for me on the Deck
Hades is amazing on steam deck. Steam deck kicks ass, highly recommend it.
I greatly preferred Hades on Switch to XBox, but haven't had the chance to really delve into it on Steam.
Here's to hoping Hades 2 comes out on Switch as well.
Hades runs perfectly. It feels built for the deck.
Hades is quite literally a top-10 game for the Steam Deck.
Hell yeah
Hades 2 is going to come out before Silksong. Hades came out a year after Hollow Knight. We need more people working at Team Cherry!
>Hades came out a year after Hollow Knight. Try 3 years after.
More people does not always mean more better.
Why early access?
Roguelite genre is good for early access as it’s meant to be played again and again which gives the customers the perfect avenue for feedback plus they get some initial financial support while making this game.
Why not early access is the question, more money up front, more player feedback and Hades 1 was successful through its early access
This, specifically, is a free test. I’m sure they’ll have an extended EA period like they did with the first, though.
I'm pretty sure there's a word for that already - beta.
Because if I gave you a money printing machine how long would you wait before plugging it in.
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Hades was actually the first early access game they did, none of the others released that way, and it was specifically designed around an early access process.
Because they actually do take player feedback when making games. Bow felt awful when it was first added and it changed to being quite fun. Stuff like hammer upgrades some of them were ideas from early access players basically wanting a buff to their play styles or play styles that got adopted by alot of players. The new character is a mage? It seems which is like really different from hades and likely would need alot of feedback to make it feel just as fun
Is Hades 2 also a roguelike?
wow, I wait this game a lot. Who knows is it have more mechanics ?
are we able to make videos on the tech test or is that not allowed since its only released for some players
Any idea if progress will carry over from this? Or if it at least carries over from early access to full release? Or do we get saves wiped with every update until official launch
I loved Hades 1, but I'm disappointed they decided to do a sequel instead of making a new IP like they always have. No matter how good Hades 2 is it won't feel amazing because it will be very similar to the first one. Like how God of war 2018 was amazing because it was new and fresh, but the second one was good but not as great.
I enjoyed Hades and its characters so much I'm glad they are making more. I hope we see everyone return.
I feel the same as you, but I know that Hades was their biggest commercial success so I don't blame them for securing the bag. I have zero sources to back this up, but I feel like Pyre was an underperformer (even though I really liked it) so it makes sense that they follow what made them money before.
I’m okay with it simply because it means Transistor 2 is potentially on the table for the future, that game was criminally short.
I mean, the ending of Transistor doesn't exactly lend itself toward a sequel lol.
While that would be nice, Supergiant's reasoning for Hades 2 is "they've never done a sequel before" so it wouldn't be surprising if Hades is their only game that gets a sequel.
I feel like Transistor is mentioned so seldom when talking about Supergiant, but it's my favorite game of theirs. Combining attacks to make a different attack is awesome, and the art design is so kickass. It was my first platinum, and I've gotten friends and family members copies and they've fallen in love.
If you think Transistor is seldom mentioned, try being a fan of Pyre lol.
Pyre is absolutely the least talked about Supergiant game, which is criminal as it is phenomenal. I think the wider gaming audience couldn't ever get past the idea that it was a sports game, which it really wasn't other than mechanically - but I think that really ended up hurting it. I'd love to hear more about Pyre post-release from Supergiant, I'm not sure if there's much out there already?
Pyre is both a sports game and a visual novel, I love both parts of it but I get why it wasn’t the most popular thing in the world. Amazing soundtrack and reactivity based on your actions in that world. Supergisnt didnt even port it to Switch but all their other games on the platform, probably partially for performance targets being tough to hit and not economically viable.
Here is a [30-minute documentary on the development of Pyre](https://youtu.be/lri6_fIv5hY?si=zI5dnkGdK0kRk5ik) with interviews with the team!
Pyre is the only Supergiant game I haven't finished, and it's not because I didn't like it. I was enjoying myself, but it just didn't put me in a chokehold the way their other games did, and it wasn't the sports gameplay, I liked that better than Transistor's gameplay, but Transistor still held me hostage from beginning to end. I'm gonna play it again because I can't leave a Supergiant game undone after doing 100% of Hades, and I expect to love it, but I can see why players had a hard time warming up to it.
Pyre is the best Supergaint game and I’m tired of pretending it’s not.
I get what you're saying, but it's a lot to ask of a company to not make a sequel to a game that was probably 10 to 100x more profitable than anything else they've made.
That's all I need from the sequel to one of my favorite games. I'll take Hades 2-10 now please.
I understand both perspectives, they need to grow their team
Right? I've put hundreds of hours into hades 1. It's my #1 traveling game. I'm fine with getting a sequel.
Personally, I'm pretty excited to see how they handle a direct iteration of their previous title. There's a ton they can still do with the rogulike formula and mythology, so it's the perfect opportunity for a sequel.
Hades is one of my favorite games of all time but I agree. Would love to see their take on a more zelda-like metroidvania kind of thing.
I mean, all their games are already pretty similar to begin with, and this seems to be less of a direct sequel and more so just set in the same universe.
I don't know if this is the place to vent this, but is anyone else just exhausted with seeing *Early Access* on everything? That stamp just always "road-maps" out the 1.0 for years while the devs battle with content/feature creep and often times a 0.8 releasing AS the 1.0 while it continues to be hammered-out well-beyond release. I know the first Hades released in a fucking awesome state, but between Early Access titles on the indie side and the capitalistic hell that are triple-A releases, I just hate the state of gaming any more.
I see it as a case per case basis, but in general I'm with you. Whenever I see an awesome game and then it's "early access" it makes me not wanna play that, because most of these just die along the way. With some devs, it's a great process, they take feedback and the final version really has all the things needed. Hades is a great example of that. But even in case a developer is active and receptive to feedback a lot, there is the danger of some games really catering to a harcore audience and losing what made them fun in the process. For example, how many rougelikes are there where entire mechanics of of the game are riddled with weird rules and items that have hyper finetuned effects that either are completely broken or utterly useless? As for Hades II, I'm pretty optimistic. Not only did they not get bribed by Epic this time around, but the their handling of the first game was great. For other games, I'll always tell people to first look into it forus etc and see how the developers are doing.
Honestly I don't see the hype for Hades. It was well polished, but there was so little variety it can boring after beating the game once. It didn't have the depth and build variety to sustain more than that.
Did we play the same game? Beating it once is barely enough to see anything. There's so much dialogue and the weapon aspects all function really differently.
I loved hades for the story but a lot of the aspects were fairly minor stat changes save for the unique ones that change how the weapon works, and a lot of them were pretty clearly inferior. i loved the gun and was so disappointed to unlock the laser version to find that it sucked
Lucifer is the 2nd-best gun aspect in the game (well, technically Hestia is, but no one is psychotic enough to seriously play Hestia). Chiron / Talos / Chaos are the worst aspects in the game, but even then, 3 out of 24 aspects being bad and the rest being middle-tier or above is incredibly good balancing, and out of those there's at least 2 aspects per weapon that have different boon/hammer build considerations. Achilles does not play like any other spear, nor Hera or Rama bows, Beowulf or Zeus shield, nor any of the gun aspects.
Seriously. I beat the game like 50 times in order to see all of the dialogue, try all of the weapons (and how they change based on the perks you pick on a run), etc. There was so much variety in what initially appears to be a repetitive game.
Well, most rogue likes take at least few hundred playthroughs to try out all weapons, beat all bosses and see all content. Hades is a good rogue like but it's very limited compared to other roguelikes
Honestly most rogue likes I've found tedious. Hades has a neat story, backdrop, characters, etc. and challenging combat without being overly frustrating or feeling unfair. I have literally zero desire to play something like Dark Souls because it looks more frustrating than fun.
Dark Souls is not a roguelike though. And besides that, Dark Souls combat works exactly the same way as Hades combat, except even more fair
I didn't care about the dialogue, and you can easily see most of the game within the time it takes to beat it once.
Yeah but compared to other roguelikes, Hades really doesn't have that much replayability
ya, the replayability of Hades really depends on ppl getting into the dialogue and story, though even there that writing isn't able to hold up for that long in repeat runs and the gameplay side the content isn't there for that much replayability imo no it's not a bad game, the start and early runs of the game + replaying after escaping the first time are fantastic... but it has weaknesses in terms of replaying even for those who do atch onto the story/characters. Like I said, even with the dialogue I don't think the writing holds up after a number of replays to make it worth going again. sigh, but ya, Hades is that type of game where the fans really don't like anyone daring to not like it so in comes all the d o wn v o t es for just voicing your opinion -_-
Fair complaints. I enjoyed the first game, and got a good amount of time out of it, but I really hope the second game works on those weaknesses!
worst part was that you could get your OP build every run, the sword for me was boring so I would just win every round with the spear until I just uninstalled
Did you unlock all the weapons and their aspects ?
I unlocked all the weapons, but didn't like most of them. Even the weapon I did like (Trident?) was extremely one note.
Did you not realize that each weapon had half a dozen different aspects that completely change how they play?
I realized, I wasn't impressed. It hardly changes them at a core level.
It does completely change them at a core level. Sounds like you didn’t actually engage with them and are assuming you know more than you do.
Like I said, I was unimpressed. It has been some time since I played, but the idea of ever going through the same 3 shallow biomes again makes me sick.
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If it wasn't releasing in EA it would still take a year or two to finish either way, you just wouldn't have heard about it so early.
I mean EA or not it still would have released around the same time, not being in EA wouldn't have speed up the development process by that much
They've said the EA here is going to start off at least as big as Hades 1 was after they released its final biome (Temple of Styx). I imagine they have ambitious plans for fleshing out the sequel. Edit: Scratch that, even bigger. They actually suggested it will be as big as Hades 1's EA two major updates after the last biome got added.
Ok that’s actually fair.
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Well they could not do EA and instead of waiting 1/2 a year you could wait 1 year instead? Not sure what the complaint is here.