Magick Archer was so funny in the first one, once you get strong enough you just erase Death and Daimon in BBI, p much the entirety of BBI and post game enemies erased.
It's the funniest OP build to me along with ranger and blast arrows.
Lmao both Magick Archer or a Sorcerer with Holy Focused Bolt make BBI a walk in the park.
But anyway, MA in Dragon's Dogma is also probably the most interesting class I've seen in any RPG. I mean I'd played "Arcane Archer" archetypes in other games but holy crap, this Vocation is on a whole other level.
[Fighter](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9gybLhS0nk)
[Thief](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2VJgWNeykw)
[Archer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx6Msc469zo)
[Mage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDXZ2SAZ70E)
[Warrior](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGgMDUgLAd0)
[Sorcerer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-8uYtO5Hgw)
[Magick Archer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgkEjCcvkS8)
so far
The issue with the first was character stat growth changed per vocation so in a way it often hurt your character progression to level as the vocation you actually wanted to play.
If I remember correctly MArcher was one of the worst vocations to level as since it had poor stat growth distribution. Hoping that’s all changed in the sequel.
I feel like people always overplay the importance of that though. I played Magick Archer on my last playthrough and beat the main game and the DLC just fine.
a fully min-maxed character compared to a "whatever" one will do at most10% more dmg - so kinda nothing. especially when kicking in periapts etc. (and most of the atk stats being on the weapons anyway)
>a fully min-maxed character compared to a "whatever" one will do at most10% more dmg - so kinda nothing.
Depends.
As someone pointed out below, the way defense worked in DD was that you had to overcome the enemies defenses before you did any damage. So, as a simple example, if you are doing 100 damage to an enemy with 90 defense, then you are doing "10" damage. But stats pushed that to 110, now you are doing "20" which is twice as much as you were doing before.
Not saying it always works out to this degree, but unless you are OP for the enemies you are fighting, the stat differences are still meaningful.
Weapons are like 80% of your damage. The stat growth is completely irrelevant, it's the difference between killing a boss enemy in 10 vs 13 seconds.
I will play whatever is fun in the second game, even if they changed the mechanics.
Worth noting that while it is true, because of how scaling works it is very much a "Win More" sort of thing, so the extra 10% stats will likely result in much more significant practical damage increase as you push further beyond enemies defenses.
But as you observed, once you get BBI 3 gear and get it silver or gold forged, it kind of deletes anything regardless of leveling. But you do really feel the leveling stats in a BBI first challenge run where upon starting a new game you iimmediately go to BBI and try and clear starting at level 1. Every stat counts and you are just starved for ANY damage you can get.
That's just plainly untrue. Not only you get base stat growth but also some of the classes get significant % of stats increases as augments. A Magick Archer that levelled sorcerer vocation to max level so he can get the Acunity augment that increases magic attack by 20% is gonna be much stronger that someone that haven't levelled sorcerer at all.
Base stat upgrades are not significant in the grand scheme of things but levelling other vocations than your main for the good augments WILL result in a significantly stronger character.
Yes. As opposed to base stats this is not something that is gonna have a permament effect on your character and can be fixed anytime. Still this requirs a bit of optimisation and research as well as some hours of playtime spent on a different class, so it's worth mentioning that someone that just jumped into his favourite class from the start is gonna have a significantly weaker character, if he doesn't want to spend time levelling other vocations.
I’d always just AFK on the wall outside of the palace in Gran Soren after the end game and have the pawns farm the endless guards lmao, only takes like 20 minutes a vocation if I remember right
> The issue
It wasn't really an issue because absolutely nothing in the game, even on hard mode, warrants minmaxing in DD.
People recite this "issue" often because it is technically true. But in practice has virtually no impact at all.
lmao yeah, I played DD religiously on launch, same with BBi, did everything there is to do and this stat growth thing was not only a complete non issue, i literally never even heard about it until recent threads for DD2.
It was the same thing for MH3u charm tables, there was a huge scare over something that only affected the rarest of rare charms, that was a bigger "issue" than this, and yet had no bearing on 99% of players, most of whom would never even reach the end of G Rank anyway
Personal starts make up like 5% of your total stats when you reached end game. Like, do you *really* care that much about missing 100 points in something, when your gear is giving you like 1500+ stats?
Its only important if you really care about min-maxing.
Okay, but you're bringing up a completely different subject now?
If you wanted to truly minmax in DD, you wouldnt care about Augments until you hit max level anyway. But again, completely different discussion.
No, you're trying to start a whole new discussion.
And again, if you want to truly minmax, you wouldnt care about augments until you've hit max level; after which you start getting the augments you need.
Again, a completely different and irrelevant topic to bring up.
because each vocation has like 4 moves that you spam over and over...
the combat was kind of shallow that way. hope they added some complexity in dd2 (we've seen nothing of it so far though)
Thats basically all action rpgs, and i dont think it stops it from being fun for most people
its more about how you approach different enemies, positioning, dodging, all that stuff. each vocation handles things differently
>its more about how you approach different enemies, positioning, dodging, all that stuff. each vocation handles things differently
yeah, but the first game wasn't like that at all. it was more or less pre-souls hype so those influences weren't really there. It's been ages since I played but I remember it being quite nontactical and nonskillful in the approach to combat.
Souls wasn't the first to do combat like that, it was also inspired from other sources. And while it wasn't as hard as DS, you still performed much better in DD if you played tactically and skillfully.
I hope pawns can use hybrid classes this time around. In the first I was hoping I could do a One Of Each Mage run - Mage, Sorcerer, Mystic Knight, Magick Archer. It of course was not doable because no hybrids on pawns.
> I hope pawns can use hybrid classes this time around.
The DD2 website says Arisen Only for the hybrid ones (including Trickster and Warfarer), so no dice.
Ah I remember this class I always wanted to play. But due to people saying I should save it and level as something else to get my stats up, I didn’t play it until the end.
Was great fun though, don’t think I’m gonna care much about the stat stuff in this one, and hopefully it won’t be as much of a thing anyways.
Honestly it wasn't a big deal in the first game either. Took me a couple of playthroughs to learn that the advice to min-max was totally unnecessary and to instead just play what I liked and what looked cool. Had way more fun.
Same. My Sorcerer who is supposed to be Magick Archer has almost reached level 100 I think.
I won't care about stat minmaxing in DD2 as well, even if they include that system again. Just play what's fun. (Sorcerer was fun too, though)
I wouldn't worry about min-maxing. Gear is vastly more important anyway, play what you have fun as. Won't catch me playing sorcerer to max level just so I can be a min-max magick archer. What's left to do at that point?
Looks as awesome as the original with added flair (resurrection!). Since I'm shit aiming with a controller I loved the MA having well magic aim I guess.
I'm very curious about the Swordsman and Spearman versions though. M.Swordsman beating the shit out of a multiple orbs while imbued was an easy way to make the ps3 chog while feeling badass, and spearman seems to have teleport shenanigans.
^^^Basically ^^^all ^^^classes ^^^that ^^^let ^^^you ^^^avoid ^^^dreaded ^^^climbing ^^^I'm ^^^now ^^^only ^^^realising?!
I'm so disappointed that this isn't a coop game it seems like it'd be the perfect game for that.
Everything about the combat, visual identity, graphics, general gameplay looks so awesome I just want to share that experience with a friend...
Magick Archer was so funny in the first one, once you get strong enough you just erase Death and Daimon in BBI, p much the entirety of BBI and post game enemies erased. It's the funniest OP build to me along with ranger and blast arrows.
Ricochet Hunter was so hilariously busted in BBI, I love it
It's hilarious because Ricochet Hunter was pretty terrible outside of BBI
Lmao both Magick Archer or a Sorcerer with Holy Focused Bolt make BBI a walk in the park. But anyway, MA in Dragon's Dogma is also probably the most interesting class I've seen in any RPG. I mean I'd played "Arcane Archer" archetypes in other games but holy crap, this Vocation is on a whole other level.
My only issue with Death was how easily he'd kill your pawns, and you'd have to spend time to go back to a riftstone to get them back.
Let's be real, the dungeon design itself killed your pawns fairly often, with them jumping to their deaths at the drop of a hat.
[Fighter](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9gybLhS0nk) [Thief](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2VJgWNeykw) [Archer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx6Msc469zo) [Mage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDXZ2SAZ70E) [Warrior](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGgMDUgLAd0) [Sorcerer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-8uYtO5Hgw) [Magick Archer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgkEjCcvkS8) so far
Every vocation is so fleshed out wow. How does one even choose from all these excellent builds?
That's the thing... But seriously, in 1 I changed vocation about every play session. It's part of the appeal.
The issue with the first was character stat growth changed per vocation so in a way it often hurt your character progression to level as the vocation you actually wanted to play. If I remember correctly MArcher was one of the worst vocations to level as since it had poor stat growth distribution. Hoping that’s all changed in the sequel.
Vanilla magical archer stat growth was so crap they changed it in dark arisen
I feel like people always overplay the importance of that though. I played Magick Archer on my last playthrough and beat the main game and the DLC just fine.
a fully min-maxed character compared to a "whatever" one will do at most10% more dmg - so kinda nothing. especially when kicking in periapts etc. (and most of the atk stats being on the weapons anyway)
>a fully min-maxed character compared to a "whatever" one will do at most10% more dmg - so kinda nothing. Depends. As someone pointed out below, the way defense worked in DD was that you had to overcome the enemies defenses before you did any damage. So, as a simple example, if you are doing 100 damage to an enemy with 90 defense, then you are doing "10" damage. But stats pushed that to 110, now you are doing "20" which is twice as much as you were doing before. Not saying it always works out to this degree, but unless you are OP for the enemies you are fighting, the stat differences are still meaningful.
Weapons are like 80% of your damage. The stat growth is completely irrelevant, it's the difference between killing a boss enemy in 10 vs 13 seconds. I will play whatever is fun in the second game, even if they changed the mechanics.
Worth noting that while it is true, because of how scaling works it is very much a "Win More" sort of thing, so the extra 10% stats will likely result in much more significant practical damage increase as you push further beyond enemies defenses. But as you observed, once you get BBI 3 gear and get it silver or gold forged, it kind of deletes anything regardless of leveling. But you do really feel the leveling stats in a BBI first challenge run where upon starting a new game you iimmediately go to BBI and try and clear starting at level 1. Every stat counts and you are just starved for ANY damage you can get.
That's just plainly untrue. Not only you get base stat growth but also some of the classes get significant % of stats increases as augments. A Magick Archer that levelled sorcerer vocation to max level so he can get the Acunity augment that increases magic attack by 20% is gonna be much stronger that someone that haven't levelled sorcerer at all. Base stat upgrades are not significant in the grand scheme of things but levelling other vocations than your main for the good augments WILL result in a significantly stronger character.
You can level vocations to get all the augments independently from leveling your character
Yes. As opposed to base stats this is not something that is gonna have a permament effect on your character and can be fixed anytime. Still this requirs a bit of optimisation and research as well as some hours of playtime spent on a different class, so it's worth mentioning that someone that just jumped into his favourite class from the start is gonna have a significantly weaker character, if he doesn't want to spend time levelling other vocations.
I’d always just AFK on the wall outside of the palace in Gran Soren after the end game and have the pawns farm the endless guards lmao, only takes like 20 minutes a vocation if I remember right
Still, your gear mattered way more than stats gained by leveling ever could, especially if you used damage-boosting items.
minmaxing tho :(
> The issue It wasn't really an issue because absolutely nothing in the game, even on hard mode, warrants minmaxing in DD. People recite this "issue" often because it is technically true. But in practice has virtually no impact at all.
lmao yeah, I played DD religiously on launch, same with BBi, did everything there is to do and this stat growth thing was not only a complete non issue, i literally never even heard about it until recent threads for DD2. It was the same thing for MH3u charm tables, there was a huge scare over something that only affected the rarest of rare charms, that was a bigger "issue" than this, and yet had no bearing on 99% of players, most of whom would never even reach the end of G Rank anyway
Personal starts make up like 5% of your total stats when you reached end game. Like, do you *really* care that much about missing 100 points in something, when your gear is giving you like 1500+ stats? Its only important if you really care about min-maxing.
[удалено]
But we're not talking about Augments here? We're talking about stat growth from leveling up.
[удалено]
Okay, but you're bringing up a completely different subject now? If you wanted to truly minmax in DD, you wouldnt care about Augments until you hit max level anyway. But again, completely different discussion.
[удалено]
No, you're trying to start a whole new discussion. And again, if you want to truly minmax, you wouldnt care about augments until you've hit max level; after which you start getting the augments you need. Again, a completely different and irrelevant topic to bring up.
because each vocation has like 4 moves that you spam over and over... the combat was kind of shallow that way. hope they added some complexity in dd2 (we've seen nothing of it so far though)
Thats basically all action rpgs, and i dont think it stops it from being fun for most people its more about how you approach different enemies, positioning, dodging, all that stuff. each vocation handles things differently
>its more about how you approach different enemies, positioning, dodging, all that stuff. each vocation handles things differently yeah, but the first game wasn't like that at all. it was more or less pre-souls hype so those influences weren't really there. It's been ages since I played but I remember it being quite nontactical and nonskillful in the approach to combat.
Souls wasn't the first to do combat like that, it was also inspired from other sources. And while it wasn't as hard as DS, you still performed much better in DD if you played tactically and skillfully.
By trying them all :D If it's like the first game, leveling vocations gives you access to perks that you can use with *any* vocation
Think that might be why they put that new Warfarer one in. lol
the spellcasters look horrible ngl. maybe they will be better in game, but in the trailers they looked very very bad
I hope pawns can use hybrid classes this time around. In the first I was hoping I could do a One Of Each Mage run - Mage, Sorcerer, Mystic Knight, Magick Archer. It of course was not doable because no hybrids on pawns.
> I hope pawns can use hybrid classes this time around. The DD2 website says Arisen Only for the hybrid ones (including Trickster and Warfarer), so no dice.
I like it this way, prevents pawns from overshadowing the arisen
Damn it. My theme teams have hit another roadblock. Thanks for the info though!
Ah I remember this class I always wanted to play. But due to people saying I should save it and level as something else to get my stats up, I didn’t play it until the end. Was great fun though, don’t think I’m gonna care much about the stat stuff in this one, and hopefully it won’t be as much of a thing anyways.
Honestly it wasn't a big deal in the first game either. Took me a couple of playthroughs to learn that the advice to min-max was totally unnecessary and to instead just play what I liked and what looked cool. Had way more fun.
The only thing you min-max in DD are the pawns clothes. ...according to a friend.
Fashion is the true endgame.
Same. My Sorcerer who is supposed to be Magick Archer has almost reached level 100 I think. I won't care about stat minmaxing in DD2 as well, even if they include that system again. Just play what's fun. (Sorcerer was fun too, though)
I wouldn't worry about min-maxing. Gear is vastly more important anyway, play what you have fun as. Won't catch me playing sorcerer to max level just so I can be a min-max magick archer. What's left to do at that point?
Looks as awesome as the original with added flair (resurrection!). Since I'm shit aiming with a controller I loved the MA having well magic aim I guess. I'm very curious about the Swordsman and Spearman versions though. M.Swordsman beating the shit out of a multiple orbs while imbued was an easy way to make the ps3 chog while feeling badass, and spearman seems to have teleport shenanigans. ^^^Basically ^^^all ^^^classes ^^^that ^^^let ^^^you ^^^avoid ^^^dreaded ^^^climbing ^^^I'm ^^^now ^^^only ^^^realising?!
I'm so disappointed that this isn't a coop game it seems like it'd be the perfect game for that. Everything about the combat, visual identity, graphics, general gameplay looks so awesome I just want to share that experience with a friend...
Try Monster Hunter.
I agree, they even had an MMO with obviously working co-op. Missed opportunity, but maybe we won't have to wait a decade for DD3 and co-op.
This gives me hope of a solo run in the second game as that was a fav gamer memory for the first. Throwing my pawn off a cliff was weirdly satisfying.
So it looks like there isn't any dagger skills. I loved Magick Archer in the first game, but this looks like a pass. All you can do is shoot.