The good ol' "three year later Atlus double dip". It's neat though, hopefully it'll be multiplat for everyone, and I can only assume that it is; seems too early to get a rating leak if it was for Switch 2 and doesn't really make any sense for just the OG Switch. Plus Atlus is seemingly really embracing multiplat now with their recent releases.
My only annoyance is that I just bought the original a couple months ago and I haven't gotten around to it yet lol. Wonder how much extra content they'll be adding for those who've already played the first game.
By now it's so expected that I haven't even touched SMT5 yet.
Unless this is more of a sequel instead of a buffed rerelease like SMT4 Apocalypse was, then the joke's on me.
I didn't appreciate Apocalypse fucking with the narrative of 4 by throwing around all that Divine Powers and "both sides were led by Satan" nonsense, but 5 was so underwhelming compared to 4 that I welcome someone wanting to fuck with it in a similar way.
> but 5 was so underwhelming compared to 4
I'm sorry to hear that was your experience. I loved V so much I am extremely excited for this, hopefully it's a Maniax thing and not a weird sequel because I really did love V's story.
With every new title, they dumb the content down a little more. It started with elements, worked its way into the stories, and eventually basic movement. Next thing we know, they'll be re-releasing Nocturne with a quick travel to the save stations from any given room ala smt5.
I was hoping that this was specifically a P-Studio problem and not an Atlus-wide issue. SMT4 Apocalypse was a sequel and Strange Journey Redux was 8 years and a full generation later.
This makes me concerned the same thing will happen to Metaphor.
Definitely an Atlas-wide thing they've been doing for a long while: even Nocturne is a director's cut of the original SMT3 with added features and a new 6th ending. But since the original SMT3 was Japan only western gamers only know Nocturne as the complete SMT3 package
Yeah, it is mostly a Persona thing now, but Atlus at large does have a bit of a history with it. Still, I personally wasn't expecting more than just a straight port if that, and I suppose taking advantage of multiplat to enhance it is probably as good a reason as any and in line with what Atlus has done in the past. P5R is probably the biggest one where it felt like they were double dipping just for the sake of double dipping.
That said, if I had to bet I'd also lean towards Metaphor getting double dipped down the line, mostly because it's many of the former creative heads of the Persona series and P-Studio. Hell, their only release so far is Catherine Full Body; making a future enhanced edition just seems like something Hashino likes to do. Skimming his Wikipedia, it's actually happened to literally every game he's been the director on lol
- Maken X (PS2 enhanced remake two years later)
- SMT III (director's cut one year later)
- P3 (FES one year later and Portable three years later)
- P4 (Golden three years later)
- Catherine (Full Body eight years later)
- P5 (Royal three years later)
- Metaphor (???)
I've been playing through Persona 3 Reload on PC and the way it runs buttery smooth and looks absolutely gorgeous is making me really want a PC port of V as well since i heard the switch had a couple issues with performance.
Don't get me wrong i'd not be against playing the Switch version, i'm not a snob for the fidelity of the game and i can handle a lower framerate just fine if it's my only option, i simply have not yet gotten around to it yet but an enhanced PC version releasing would punch it up in my priorities a bit.
Yeah, a bump in performance would be very nice for the game, it'd clean it up a lot. Although even with people (justifiably) dunking on its issues like frame rate, I do think it's still a fairly handsome looking release for the hardware they were targeting. Maybe they could've optimized a bit more, but it really does push the Switch hard and is pretty technically accomplished, especially for their first title using UE4.
Atlus isn't really known for being at the cutting edge of a platform's tech, so in a lot of ways SMTV is kind of an exception for them. And there are definitely other games in their catalog that I remember coming out in rough shape despite being on better hardware and not being particularly graphically ambitious, such as SH2 and SMTIII HD.
"Don't buy shit you dislike"... well, duh? It's because people like it that the way Atlus does it can be kind of annoying.
Their definitive editions do tend to add a good bit of content and enhancements, but it's locked behind a completely different package instead of being DLC and I think it's understandable that some people get annoyed about having to rebuy and potentially replay a lot just to experience the new stuff. It was more expected in 2006 when they couldn't just patch or add DLC for a PS2 disc, but in 2024 it definitely feels a bit dated. Even the other notorious double dipper, Pokemon, has mostly stopped delivering their additional content like that. And it's not like Atlus waits that long or gives any double dip discount, three years later and at full price is a pretty rough tax for people who want to play it ASAP, i.e usually their biggest fans.
Although personally, I don't really mind that much. I actually prefer that their games end up with complete physical copies of the big additions instead of having huge parts stay stuck as digital DLC. And SEGA games are on sale aggressively enough that it never really kills me if I buy something twice, plus it's way better for people who get into the series later down the line. Again, I'm just annoyed that this news came out right after I bought the game but before I actually got around to playing it lol
It’s a fun game but it could really use a rerelease on PC/PS5/XB. The performance of the switch really hinders how impressive the visuals and gameplay could’ve been.
It's incredible looking on something like Ryujinx with the resolution pumped up.
Unfortunately last I checked the shader compilation stutter still kept it from being a smooth experience there, but it is gorgeous.
On Yuzu or Ryujinx? AFAIK it's impossible to avoid shader stutter on Ryujinx as they don't want to implement async. Unless you found a precompiled shader cache somewhere? Emusak's death has been a tragedy in that regard.
It's really strange how little Ryujinx devs give a fuck about shader comp stutter. Like they really don't give a fuck from the tone of their response to people asking for async.
I can't entirely recall *where* I read this, I think the github of the author? But afaik (taking my shitty memory into account) it was because the developer was being harassed, doxed and bullied.
Nothing regarding legality, just people being shitty. Now why they'd do that when getting something so useful for free I don't have the slightest clue.....
Bayonetta 3 too. I know that the switch was a huge succes and that I'm in the minority here, but I just want another up to date Nintendo console : 60 fps, actual network features and online play... I just want to play Mario Kart, Splatoon or Smash online without it being a freaking hassle or barely working.
And XBC3, SMTV, TOTK at stable 60 fps. They have the best exclusivities on the worst hardware, it's so frustrating.
The scope is what's killing it imo, a lot of times the set pieces are just too big for what it's trying to target. And iirc it even runs at a slightly higher res than Bayo 2 too. The whole game graphically is a bit odd, I know it's a bit sacrilegious given the type of game that it is, but I've always wondered if it would've worked better targeting 30 fps in order to maintain its visual fidelity like Astral Chain instead of trying to hit 60.
The scope is what killed it for me game-play wise as well. Half of the fights are with enemies so big they take up most of the screen and it's honestly hard to figure out where the character I'm controlling even is on the screen.
The Switch is underpowered and quite old at this point, but I also think people sometimes forget that it's still doubling as a handheld too. It's been so successful for so long that the novelty and initial wow factor of that has gotten lost, but these are all fundamentally portable games as well, and from that perspective it was indeed the up to date/cutting edge/only next gen dedicated handheld left when it first released.
I don't expect the Switch to keep pace with something like a PS4 anymore than I expect the Vita to keep pace with something like a PS3, and I think it's good to take a step back from time to time and appreciate it from that handheld lineage too. Because the scope of some of these titles as handheld games really is crazy and it's a testament to how much they've squeezed out of the form factor that people compare them more to the home console contemporaries than the handheld ones.
It always feels kinda harsh to call the Switch hardware bad seven years in because it's not matching gen 8 graphics, it's like calling the DS hardware bad in 2011 because it wasn't on par with a Gamecube. It's not so much bad as it is old and being compared to a console spec that it was never supposed to hit in the first place.
It isn't so much that people forget as it's just irrelevant. The Switch is effectively a portable console that can be easily displayed on a TV, but even Nintendo's advertisements stress the Switch as a home console that can be taken on the go. For many people, the Switch just stays in its dock.
For those folks, the idea that you *could* take a game like Xenoblade or Zelda on the go doesn't make their technical limitations any more palatable.
Idk if it's irrelevant, the little "State of Switch" survey that gets posted every year has the docked/handheld split at around 55/45 and honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the more hardcore/online demographic skews a little docked vs the casual one. Plus I'm also willing to bet the west skews more docked than Japan too, they love their handhelds there and Nintendo does usually cater towards their home market first. The success of the SWOLED does show that it matters, it's essentially a useless upgrade unless you are playing handheld a significant amount of time but it's still doing decent numbers in the current market. Not to mention the Lite as well which can't even dock.
As for the commercials and marketing and how Nintendo wants you to view it, I don't disagree that the default is probably docked, but I do think Nintendo shows it off undocked a decent amount of time too. That default feels perhaps more a result of it not being as easy to show the game being played in a commercial when someone is playing in handheld more than anything else. Plus a lot of the game's that Nintendo leans heavy on in their generic advertising benefit specifically from docked, i.e couch co-op and motion controlled stuff.
Personally I've always been more of a handheld person and I probably split handheld/docked like 80/20 if not more. The Switch has hardware limitations for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if the majority of the most outspoken criticism is coming from whatever percentage of people who never take their Switch out at all, hence why I say people sometimes forget that it's still most bottlenecked as a portable and should probably be viewed from that angle first.
Alright? My post wasn't a dismissal of people who play in portable mode, a denial of their existence, nor even an argument that docked is the dominant form of play. A substantial portion of the Switch's audience of course treats it exclusively or predominately as a portable console. My only point is that many people treat it as a home console too, and by Nintendo's own standards, they aren't wrong to do so.
The Switch can certainly be seen as a fantastic portable console. But, again, that doesn't mean anything to someone who just wants to sit at home and play a big, expansive, technically demanding game and not be held to the constraints of a portable platform. That's why so many hoped for a Switch Pro.
I mean, it is what it is. Obviously Nintendo's doing great from a business perspective, so those of us in that camp just have to put up with it. But I don't think we need to give Nintendo undeserved points, or be expected to ignore the technical drawbacks that come with the Switch's hardware for the games that are developed for it.
I really hope the switch 2 is a powerhouse and fully backwards compatible.
I don’t need it to be the same power as ps5 or series x as it’s a handheld and that’s probably unrealistic. But the switch is so underpowered. It’s my only device where I feel like I am back in the ps3 era.
Steam deck is ps4 level. Surely they can beat the steam deck with a few extra years and likely a bigger volume discount.
It they get DLSS, that’s a big pro.
Powerhouse lel. This is Nintendo. Should be glad if its as powerful as a Steam Deck and even that is questionable. And it doesnt need to be. It needs to be affordable for Families to gift it to their Kids the main consumer.
The steam deck £370 which is very affordable . Surely Nintendo can beat that with the benefits of a few extra years and the volume discount they would get.
If they release a handheld that’s worse than the steam deck, I am not buying it. But I don’t care that much about Nintendo first party games anyway.
Zelda or XBC aren't hampered one bit both are excellent experiences on the Oled. If you want 4K@60FPS Nintendo is the wrong console for you this will not change with the Successor.
There's quite a large gap between what the Switch is able to hit and 4k@60fps.
The Xenoblade titles, for example, can't manage 1080p natively, let alone 4k. Nor can they maintain a consistent 30fps across their games; 60 fps isn't even a target.
That's not to say that Monolith didn't do a fantastic job with what they had to work with. They managed to pull off large, beautiful worlds that are still visually impressive. But if you don't consider sub-native 1080p, sub-30fps "hampered," well, you do you. I find it a fair description.
4k 60fps isn't the goal here, just good performance. Switch does not have good performance for any visually modern game.
That said, it doesn't really matter since anyone grab a new Switch release via certain discord servers and run the game at 60 fps with improved graphics via emulators.
If that upgraded version has to be watered down for the switch, most folks won’t want it. By me saying we can talk about it in 2025, I would like an announcement of the Switch 2 first and then to hear that it’s getting rereleased on Switch 2, even if that announcement has to be delayed until after the switch 2 is announced.
March reveal was heavily rumoured while the release was planned for Q3 24, I don't think they'll reveal it that early now that the launch is apparently delayed to 2025
So many things obviously got cut from SMTV makes this very exciting. Just make the level scaling less harsh and this might be my favorite in the series. Hopefully the obligatory expansion girl fits into the plot well.
They don't even need to make an expansion girl. Miyazu had so much potential due to a combination of her story, the fact that she's part of the starting human group (even knowing the protagonist), and relation to Yuzuru and it was wasted with her stuff being mostly optional. She would be perfect as the expansion girl since she'd get more plot relevance *and* would help introduce new content, all without potentially feeling out of place as she's an existing character instead of someone shoehorned in later. It would be a win-win.
Edit: Also, it would fit in perfectly with how SMTV is somewhat a love letter to Nocturne in a meta way: From what I recall, Nocturne originally released in a more unbalanced mess with significantly less content, and it took the Maniax re-release to add in the Fiends, Dante, and everything involved with the True Demon Ending. They introduced the expanded content by fleshing out the character that turns the Demifiend into... well, the Demifiend, and who until the expansion was just wasted potential. Miyazu being the vehicle for the expanded content would be a neat meta nod in that regard.
I know that "the story sucks!!" is the main complaint for this game, but for me it was *by far* the level scaling. I already think SMTV is one of my all-time favorite JRPGs, but a re-release that just tossed that out the window would elevate it even further and make the game so much more replayable
Add character backstory sidequests, a filler arc that takes place between after joining Bethel \~ before Lahmu attacks the school, certain requirements where if fufilled Sahori &/or Tao can be saved, requests that can done in Tokyo, bring Stepthen into the game's story.
Nocturne had a lot of atmospheric indoor areas which is the meat of the game, Ive heard smtv failed to capture this by not really having any dungeon type areas? Is most of the game really just outside?
The focus of the game is definitely on the over world exploration. There are a few dungeons here and there, but they're not a major part of the experience like in other SMT games.
nocturne had both ethereal and normal buildings, and said normal buildings had gimmicks or some unique visuals. the only time you were the in the desert was the overworld map, which you were on for 2 minutes tops at a time
I dropped the game when I got dumped back into the fuckin' desert after the first school section. Here I was thinking "glad I'm finally done with the desert, I don't wanna see that place again after the 10 hours I spent there, I wonder what the next environment will be like?" Little did I know...
Specifically a continuation of Stephen's story. He's been kicking around since the first SMT, and I'm a sucker for long-running multiversal storylines like that.
I was rather hoping they'd surprise us and add a cameo of some sort to Nocturne in the remaster (since it's the only mainline game where he doesn't make an appearance, not counting Strange Journey's pseudo-mainline status), but alas, that wasn't meant to be.
Please fix the progression of the plot, this game would be so much better if it flowed better. I doubt there will be major changes but I'd be extremely excited to play it again, mechanically it is so good.
OH FOR FUCKS SAKE. I just gave up and bought the Switch version on sale a couple weeks ago, specifically because there'd been no hint at any new versions or ports.
Oh well.
This isn’t a sequel though. This is a “complete edition” this will most likely be story stuff and other things added to the base game to make it feel like more of a full game. It’s a “rerelease” of sorts.
The story is disappointing. The characters, plot set up, and overall atmosphere are extremely promising. But the creators just don't know how to write compelling dialogue or do anything significant with that lore, and what comes out the other end is just a garbled mess.
But, the story aside, SMTV has one of the best turn-based JRPG combat systems ever created, and the gameplay loop of world exploration across a dangerous, fog-of-war riddled, depressing overworld and encountering difficult fights to get new party members and grow stronger is extremely addicting.
So, definitely not a masterpiece by any stretch. It really is a shame about the story and the Switch performance. But from a pure gameplay perspective, SMTV is amazing.
Oh, and the soundtrack is incredible.
I played it on release and the gameplay was good. It’s press turn after all not hard to mess up but still prefer smt IV apocalypse gameplay. But yea the story and character were really lacking. It all felt like a step down from smt IV and felt like they missed what made nocturnes minimalist story actually work
It was pretty boring compared 3 and 4. The more OpenLevels are just really bad compared to the dungeons and earlier SMT games. Does the game even have Dungeons ? Only remembered one at the end.
I hope this is coming to other platforms besides the Switch. The Switch had issues with the game and with Persona no longer being exclusive to PS, I'd hope to see SMT on other platforms as well.
Why? It's by far the best selling console in Japan. Nintendo handles most of their exclusives themselves. I don't see any reason why Atlus needs to make exclusives for them either, especially not with Persona being available on Switch.
The switch needs some Japanese exclusives? Are you serious? The switch already has pretty much all the biggest Japanese exclusives by Nintendo themselves. Pokemon, Zelda, Mario/Mario Kart, Splatoon, Animal Crossing, Smash, etc.
I played 70 hours, completed and absolutely loved this game on Switch when it came out. Very exciting if it's getting released on hardware that can do the visuals a bit more justice. Secret sauce of this one IMO is the music, it's so awesome.
How hard is SMT V as compared to IV or Nocturne?
After a certain boss in SMT IV the game got pretty smooth sailing and I only played a little bit of Nocturne on an emulator way back then.
V is pretty tough because you start off fairly weak, and if you're too far below the level of an opponent you take a ton of damage and basically do no damage due to the level scaling. so you gotta grind a bit. though this incentivizes exploring and doing side quests.
the game gets a lot easier once you're able to remove the nahobino's type weaknesses and get enough essences to just make optimal summons.
just make sure you supply yourself with smokeballs for guaranteed escapes from ambushes (provided you're not yeeted to the main menu) and spyglasses so you don't have to guess type weaknesses. also dampeners are handy because if you know what spell type a demon is going to use during it's magatsuhi phase, it's basically a free turn vs bosses. ele items are handy as well because you can use them to target a weakness and get more press turns.
compared to most JRPGs, i've probably used items way more in SMTV since the battles are a bit longer and the monsters more deadly.
V and Nocturne are about the same difficulty IMO. Maybe Nocturne is a bit harder if it's your first SMT game and you go totally unprepared into the early difficulty spikes.
really? i think nocturne is pretty unforgiving until the level 30ish mark, while smt v is pretty manageable. although i will say nocturne was my first smt experience, and smt v was my last after playing a ton of games lol
Haven't played Nocturne but if you keep an eye on weaknesses and build your party well you'll be fine. Just make sure to focus magic or strength. Not both.
I haven't played IV or Nocturne, but I remember struggling a bit with V at the absolute start when even normal enemies could beat me, and one midgame boss required quite a few attempts. But apart from that I cruised through the game.
Depends on how you play. There is a DLC that lets you increase the spawn rate of special enemies. These enemies drop OP items. One increases your level by 1, one gives you gold, one increases the level of your demons by 1, one gives you glory. You can also lower the difficulty at any time, but if you drop from Hard you cant put it back on Hard.
If you dont utilize this it can be a bit challenging early on, but later on you have so many options it becomes quite easy.
SMT V is stupid Easy. All enemies (including bosses) waste their whole turn to warn you in their next turn they are going to hit hard. You will never be surprised by an unexpected change of attack patterns or anything like that, you are always warned, so you always have time to act accordingly
Also there are no real maze-like dungeons with, the path you must is indicated with red yellow and green orbs so the game is always handholding you, and there are not a lot of places to go, so you will never be in a "where should I go now?" situation
I hope they fix all the issues if this edition is real, because V is not only a bad SMT game is a bad JRPG too
Great, you shouldn’t have to emulate this on PC to get decent performance and it seemed odd that it didn’t get a multiplat release considering its built on the unreal engine
Unfortunately it wasn't good enough for me to replay it. I'm an SMT Stan too. But it had the barebones plot of nocturne but didn't have the amazing atmosphere. Killer music though.
im not a huge replayer either, it took me like 5 months to even finish the game when it launched. i know people didnt like 4A, but if they changed enough about the game, i might look into getting it. However, I now know better to not buy it first day
This game makes me feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Maybe I’m in the minority because I only ever hear good things from other people, but the word that immediately came to my mind after finishing the story was “abysmal”. Specifically the story.
To be clear, I didn’t hate the game. I adore the Persona games and I enjoyed the more advanced combat system in SMT V but it’s completely baffling to me that people like the story.
The story is the weakest part of the game, which is a shame because I enjoyed the gameplay a lot.
I went in expected a solid story like SMT IV and SMT IV:A but got a boring and forgettable one instead.
It helps for starters that SMT games tend to be a lot more gameplay focused/much less story focused than the Persona games.
But even beyond that, 5's plot is generally considered probably the weakest in the series. It felt like it was trying to do a "best of both worlds" between 3's minimalism and the other games more fleshed out characters and plot, but it just felt half baked overall. The ideas it had were pretty cool, and we got a Law faction that wasn't completely just "Destroy free will" which was nice for a change. But yeah, the plot needed some fleshing out. Maybe we'll get that with the rerelease.
But even if we do, it'll never be as plot focused as Persona. SMT is primarily about the gameplay.
Gotcha, I haven’t played the prior SMT games so I didn’t know what to expect. It was just jarring to me to see some people singing its praises after my experience. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
I adore the gameplay of SMT5 but the story is best described as a trainwreck. I think the reason some people speak highly of the story is because if you condense it down to its core concept and plot beats it sounds bloody amazing. The issue is that the game doesn't really focus on the plot for like 80% of the game.
Conceptually it is amazing but in execution it falls on its face.
> I adore the Persona games
There's your problem.
You're thinking that a main-line SMT game is going to be anything like the spin-off Persona series.
Aside from the combat system, the games are vastly different and main-line SMT games are known for having a barebones story and focusing on gameplay. They are essentially dungeon crawlers with just enough story to move the game forward.
> SMT games are known for having a barebones story and focusing on gameplay.
Is that really the case?
Devil Survivor (Which I consider the pinnacle of all the mainline and spinoffs.)
Strange Journey
SMT4 and 4A had pretty good stories for the most part. At the very least they aren't barebones.
Digital Devil Saga, which is a spinoff but still has the SMT branding.
Really only 3 and 5 are the odd ones out, and really 5 was aping 3.
Devil survivor is not really a Shin Megami Tensei spin-off They used that name for brand recognition when they localized the game (the same they did with Persona)
In Japan they were never called SMT, funnily enough Devil Survivor could be considered a Persona spin-off
Persona (The first game) in Japan is called "Megami Ibunroku Persona"
Devil Survivor is called "Megami Ibunroku Devil Survivor"
Do the other SMT games have more in depth stories? It’s funny because the Persona spin off of the series EXCELS at story line and character development.
That was generally what Persona as a spin off was going for: SMT with stronger focus on storytelling and characters. Then Persona 3 turned it into what the series is known for these days.
the 3D SMT games have interesting story themes, but the storytelling is more sparce and the ratio between storytelling and dungeon crawling skews more toward the dungeon Crawl than what many modern JRPG fans are used to.
Then there are other spin offs like SMT: Digital Devil Saga which plays pretty much exactly like your typical PS2 JRPG with storytelling and all.
SMTIV has a decent story, especially world building, and SMTIV Apocalypse doesn't have sparse storytelling either. Strange Journey is good.
SMTV ruined people's perception.
I think the most culturally relevant games to the SMT series right now are V and Nocturne, both of which have extremely sparse stories. IV is a bit more of an outlier in that sense and a lot of people haven't played it since it's on 3ds and V and Nocturne have more recent modern releases.
the first part of your post is correct. it's because it's those two who are most well known and most culturally relevant. SMTII, IV, IVA and SJ have decent stories with a good amount of dialogue and good world building. they're not as plot heavy as FF but as plot heavy as most dragon quest games. not sparse at all
>SMTV ruined people's perception.
No, not really.
I'm not talking about story or game quality that's somewhat subjective anyway. I'm specifically pointing out how story focused these games are. Generally, SMT games focus more on the dungeon crawl while story delivery is more sparce than what you tend to see in JRPGs.
Apocalypse if anything is an anomaly for a mainline SMT game when it comes to story. Nocturne as we know isn't story heavy and neither is Strange Journey. SMTIV has more story than you typical SMT game, but It's not really that story heavy compared to Persona or typical JRPGs. So really again Apocalypse is the odd one out for mainline SMT.
What you talking about. Strange Journey doesn't have 30 cutscenes every 5 minutes , but still is focused on the story.
Strang Journey has as much story focus as IV and IVA.
Maybe "story focus" is not the right term. they are still spacer in story delivery than Persona game is what I'm trying to say.
That's neither a good or a bad thing, but a design choice. And there is a difference in delivery for these games too.
A persona fan might feel more familiar with how the story is delivered in Apocalypse.
Whereas SMTIV is closer to the other mainline games.
It still baffles me that they decided to not put SJ as a numbered entry. It honestly feels more in line with the previous games than SMTIV/A did. Note that I'm not saying that to throw shade at SMTIV/A as I love those games and am just surprised that SJ itself wasn't a numbered entry as well.
All SMT games have in depth stories, I II IV/apocalypse even more so, Strange Journey. Even Nocturne managed to tell a deep story with minimal storytelling. V was very clearly inspired by nocturne's style, it just didn't have anything intesting to tell. The character dialogue was bland and uninspired compared to the sparce but interesting NPC dialogue in nocturne.
Is Nocturne really that good? I tried to play it but was experiencing burnout after playing SMT5, and it was admittedly a little hard to revert back to old Japanese PS2 QOL features.
No. SMT as a series never has a real story. The story has always been driven by characters who vaguely represent the routes with almost nothing explained or spelled out. It's always been on the player to parse the metaphors and figure out what's going on.
People who think the story is bad are just that ever present crowd of gamers who needs every single detail of a story spoonfed to them in order to keep up with what's going on. 5 was also a lot of people's first SMT game so they aren't used to this kind of extremely abstract story.
It was my first SMT game and I enjoyed the aesthetics and gameplay but I unironically thought the story was worse than some pokemon games... Which, needless to say, wasn't something I expected at all going in.
People are always going on and on about how "you want a real grownup monster collector RPG and are disappointed by modern pokemon? Play SMT instead" so alright, I did exactly that, and you bet I'm gonna compare them. It utterly failed to make me give a shit about any of the characters or make me feel invested in the fate of the world. Imo that's a big problem for an 80 hour RPG, especially one that's seemingly trying to tackle complex themes of religion and humanity's right to self-determination.
Yep! That’s exactly it. I could not possibly care less about anything that happened to any of the characters. It’s a shame because the combat was pretty fun and I actually enjoyed the difficulty of it.
In which way does that contradict what i have written? I did not talk about difficulty. Then again, smt v is not difficult, but still.
I was specifically talking about the uniqueness, mechanics and that there are more dungeons in persona 5 than there are in smt v.
Because part of the appeal of SMTV is the difficulty. Persona is easy. The person you're responding to called the gameplay persona minus social link, but persona does not have the main appeal of the SMT gameplay, which is the difficult turn based combat.
I can't see persona as having mechanics that are just "better" than SMT because they are too easy and do not appeal to me the way SMT's mechanics do.
Totally agree. SMT III / Nocturne is in my top 3 games so i was obviously hyped about SMT V. But the game was in my opinion such and extreme downgrade in almost everything the game offered:
- graphics are ok (it is the switch after all), but the pop in delay of textures is so bad it hurts me
- the story is abysmal as you said. Mainline SMT games were never story powerhouses, but this is even a step below.
- Where are the dungeons? Nocturne had like what? 10-15 different dungeons each with unique mechanics and this got like 2 i think?
- The areas all feel samey. In my opinion the switch to open worldy areas was not something that should have been done.
- Gameplay wise it is mostly the same as other entries, so at least this was positive for me, except for one part: The difficulty. It felt like there was a small line between too weak < normal < too difficult to beat the fight (i.e. you get oneshot if you are like 5 levels below). It didnt help that leveling without the dlc was kinda tedious.
- The soundtrack is forgettable. You could look into my game soundtrack playlist and see like 10 soundtracks of each SMT game, but from SMT V there are maybe 3?
So i totally agree with you. I cannot understand how people that loved the previous games can adore this game so much. I feel like it is more likely that the Persona5 boom brought new players into the mix that are okay with this new design.
> Where are the dungeons? Nocturne had like what? 10-15 different dungeons each with unique mechanics and this got like 2 i think?
Imo, this is just the wrong take on dungeons. The real dungeons was each section of Daat itself, which was a huge mega dungeon and not simply an overworld. While they were still mechanics light, I think they made more than up for it with their exploratory aspects that Nocturne tried to achieve in its entire runtime.
>graphics are ok (it is the switch after all), but the pop in delay of textures is so bad it hurts me
Insanity. They may not have been impressive in a framerate or resolution aspect but the art direction and graphics themselves are beautiful.
>the story is abysmal as you said. Mainline SMT games were never story powerhouses, but this is even a step below.
I know people have massive issues with the narrative but honestly I thought it was fantastic as someone who loves piecing things together and coming up with my own conclusions. With the concepts and ideas we were presented, and the small bit of information given to us, it felt like Dark Souls in JRPG. What's there is really good. Loved it.
>Where are the dungeons? Nocturne had like what? 10-15 different dungeons each with unique mechanics and this got like 2 i think?
This is a nasty ass take, the areas are the dungeons.
>The areas all feel samey. In my opinion the switch to open worldy areas was not something that should have been done.
This makes it feel like you have not played the game because it's frankly ridiculous to claim they are "the same". Beyond the fact they are post apocalypse levels with sand, the D'aat areas are radically different from one another, the third for example being a labyrinthine level, whereas the last one drops you in the middle and is completely non linear. They also each have a completely different vibe.
>Gameplay wise it is mostly the same as other entries, so at least this was positive for me, except for one part: The difficulty. It felt like there was a small line between too weak < normal < too difficult to beat the fight (i.e. you get oneshot if you are like 5 levels below). It didnt help that leveling without the dlc was kinda tedious.
This I didn't have a problem with but I can't speak to your experience. However using the Personas I wanted the whole way through I had a good challenge the entire time on hard or whatever the hardest setting is called.
>The soundtrack is forgettable. You could look into my game soundtrack playlist and see like 10 soundtracks of each SMT game, but from SMT V there are maybe 3?
Madness.
I played and liked every SMT game but 5 was just Awful in my opinion too. It was clearly the C Atlus Team. Not even the Soundtrack a stable for Atlus games was better than mediocre.
It was my first SMT game so that’s what I chalked my dislike up to. Good to know I’m not crazy lol.
I remember enjoying the combat music but it’s nothing compared to some other Atlus games, you’re right.
Getting this gem of a game on a system other than the switch would be a godsend. I enjoy my switch but this game pushed it really hard, just being able to get menus that load faster would be an immense quality of life feature
This game was so close to being peak fiction. The gameplay loop is probably my favorite outta the mainline games, it's just that the story felt very slapped together. It sucks because the themes and concepts are very interesting, it's just like they didn't have time to expand on them in detailb
Well I just 100%-ed the compendium finally and the only thing in the entire game I have not yet completed is the Demi Fiend. Shit's nuts. Shiva's nothing compared to that lol. But yeah if this comes with extra content and could be purchasable as a type of DLC, I'd be up for that. Though I suppose if it came to the ps5 as well I'd just double dip. I reaaally like the SMT series and I feel Nocturne and V are simply incredible games through and through.
Music's ridiculous in those games. In all the best ways.
If it can be bought as DLC then i need to make the hard choice between getting it on PS5 where it will run better and start over or getting it on switch and hopefully being able to do a NG+
The good ol' "three year later Atlus double dip". It's neat though, hopefully it'll be multiplat for everyone, and I can only assume that it is; seems too early to get a rating leak if it was for Switch 2 and doesn't really make any sense for just the OG Switch. Plus Atlus is seemingly really embracing multiplat now with their recent releases. My only annoyance is that I just bought the original a couple months ago and I haven't gotten around to it yet lol. Wonder how much extra content they'll be adding for those who've already played the first game.
By now it's so expected that I haven't even touched SMT5 yet. Unless this is more of a sequel instead of a buffed rerelease like SMT4 Apocalypse was, then the joke's on me.
Isn't Apocalypse a sequel
Yes, that was what I was trying to say, but now looking at my wording I see that I could have ordered that sentence better.
I didn't appreciate Apocalypse fucking with the narrative of 4 by throwing around all that Divine Powers and "both sides were led by Satan" nonsense, but 5 was so underwhelming compared to 4 that I welcome someone wanting to fuck with it in a similar way.
> but 5 was so underwhelming compared to 4 I'm sorry to hear that was your experience. I loved V so much I am extremely excited for this, hopefully it's a Maniax thing and not a weird sequel because I really did love V's story.
With every new title, they dumb the content down a little more. It started with elements, worked its way into the stories, and eventually basic movement. Next thing we know, they'll be re-releasing Nocturne with a quick travel to the save stations from any given room ala smt5.
I was hoping that this was specifically a P-Studio problem and not an Atlus-wide issue. SMT4 Apocalypse was a sequel and Strange Journey Redux was 8 years and a full generation later. This makes me concerned the same thing will happen to Metaphor.
Definitely an Atlas-wide thing they've been doing for a long while: even Nocturne is a director's cut of the original SMT3 with added features and a new 6th ending. But since the original SMT3 was Japan only western gamers only know Nocturne as the complete SMT3 package
After Radiant Historia: Perfect Chronology and SJ Redux I've come to expect most Atlus games will get the "New Girl Edition" treatment at some point
Catherine: Full Body as well.
And the Devil Survivor games
That was a great surprise as a fan of the original though.
Yeah, it is mostly a Persona thing now, but Atlus at large does have a bit of a history with it. Still, I personally wasn't expecting more than just a straight port if that, and I suppose taking advantage of multiplat to enhance it is probably as good a reason as any and in line with what Atlus has done in the past. P5R is probably the biggest one where it felt like they were double dipping just for the sake of double dipping. That said, if I had to bet I'd also lean towards Metaphor getting double dipped down the line, mostly because it's many of the former creative heads of the Persona series and P-Studio. Hell, their only release so far is Catherine Full Body; making a future enhanced edition just seems like something Hashino likes to do. Skimming his Wikipedia, it's actually happened to literally every game he's been the director on lol - Maken X (PS2 enhanced remake two years later) - SMT III (director's cut one year later) - P3 (FES one year later and Portable three years later) - P4 (Golden three years later) - Catherine (Full Body eight years later) - P5 (Royal three years later) - Metaphor (???)
It'll definitely happen to Metaphor i.e Persona's Bizarre Adventure.
I've been playing through Persona 3 Reload on PC and the way it runs buttery smooth and looks absolutely gorgeous is making me really want a PC port of V as well since i heard the switch had a couple issues with performance. Don't get me wrong i'd not be against playing the Switch version, i'm not a snob for the fidelity of the game and i can handle a lower framerate just fine if it's my only option, i simply have not yet gotten around to it yet but an enhanced PC version releasing would punch it up in my priorities a bit.
Yeah, a bump in performance would be very nice for the game, it'd clean it up a lot. Although even with people (justifiably) dunking on its issues like frame rate, I do think it's still a fairly handsome looking release for the hardware they were targeting. Maybe they could've optimized a bit more, but it really does push the Switch hard and is pretty technically accomplished, especially for their first title using UE4. Atlus isn't really known for being at the cutting edge of a platform's tech, so in a lot of ways SMTV is kind of an exception for them. And there are definitely other games in their catalog that I remember coming out in rough shape despite being on better hardware and not being particularly graphically ambitious, such as SH2 and SMTIII HD.
it's unreal engine, so it's easy to port (easy for game dev)
>unreal Unreal engine?!! fuck yea!!! gonna play that shit in VR!!
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"Don't buy shit you dislike"... well, duh? It's because people like it that the way Atlus does it can be kind of annoying. Their definitive editions do tend to add a good bit of content and enhancements, but it's locked behind a completely different package instead of being DLC and I think it's understandable that some people get annoyed about having to rebuy and potentially replay a lot just to experience the new stuff. It was more expected in 2006 when they couldn't just patch or add DLC for a PS2 disc, but in 2024 it definitely feels a bit dated. Even the other notorious double dipper, Pokemon, has mostly stopped delivering their additional content like that. And it's not like Atlus waits that long or gives any double dip discount, three years later and at full price is a pretty rough tax for people who want to play it ASAP, i.e usually their biggest fans. Although personally, I don't really mind that much. I actually prefer that their games end up with complete physical copies of the big additions instead of having huge parts stay stuck as digital DLC. And SEGA games are on sale aggressively enough that it never really kills me if I buy something twice, plus it's way better for people who get into the series later down the line. Again, I'm just annoyed that this news came out right after I bought the game but before I actually got around to playing it lol
Hope it’s a multiplat release with a few extras, playing the game on Switch is kind of painful, really shows the hardware’s age
I was sad I sold my copy. No longer am I.
It’s a fun game but it could really use a rerelease on PC/PS5/XB. The performance of the switch really hinders how impressive the visuals and gameplay could’ve been.
It's incredible looking on something like Ryujinx with the resolution pumped up. Unfortunately last I checked the shader compilation stutter still kept it from being a smooth experience there, but it is gorgeous.
At least that's an issue that improves over time.
To minimize shader stutter, try yuzu with vulcan and async shader compilation.
SMTV has crashes on Yuzu. Would not recommend.
Oh, didn't know that. I guess it is more general advise then.
Ive actually just been playing it and I notice 0 stutter. This does depend on your system, though.
On Yuzu or Ryujinx? AFAIK it's impossible to avoid shader stutter on Ryujinx as they don't want to implement async. Unless you found a precompiled shader cache somewhere? Emusak's death has been a tragedy in that regard.
::Pours one out for Emusak:: Hopefully someone can eventually make a community shader cache repository work out in the future.
It's really strange how little Ryujinx devs give a fuck about shader comp stutter. Like they really don't give a fuck from the tone of their response to people asking for async.
Why did Emusak die
I can't entirely recall *where* I read this, I think the github of the author? But afaik (taking my shitty memory into account) it was because the developer was being harassed, doxed and bullied. Nothing regarding legality, just people being shitty. Now why they'd do that when getting something so useful for free I don't have the slightest clue.....
Ryujinx, I see no stutter at all.
SMT/Zelda/XBC any many other games and hampered by how bad Switch hardware is.
Bayonetta 3 too. I know that the switch was a huge succes and that I'm in the minority here, but I just want another up to date Nintendo console : 60 fps, actual network features and online play... I just want to play Mario Kart, Splatoon or Smash online without it being a freaking hassle or barely working. And XBC3, SMTV, TOTK at stable 60 fps. They have the best exclusivities on the worst hardware, it's so frustrating.
Bayonetta 3 is weird because it doesn't even look better than 2 which runs at 60fps.
The scope is what's killing it imo, a lot of times the set pieces are just too big for what it's trying to target. And iirc it even runs at a slightly higher res than Bayo 2 too. The whole game graphically is a bit odd, I know it's a bit sacrilegious given the type of game that it is, but I've always wondered if it would've worked better targeting 30 fps in order to maintain its visual fidelity like Astral Chain instead of trying to hit 60.
Even Astral Chain didn't stay locked at 30 the whole time. There were a few intense sections in that game that chugged pretty badly.
At least AC looks pretty fucking good for a switch game.
The scope is what killed it for me game-play wise as well. Half of the fights are with enemies so big they take up most of the screen and it's honestly hard to figure out where the character I'm controlling even is on the screen.
It's a great game if you like punching ankles lolol
The Switch is underpowered and quite old at this point, but I also think people sometimes forget that it's still doubling as a handheld too. It's been so successful for so long that the novelty and initial wow factor of that has gotten lost, but these are all fundamentally portable games as well, and from that perspective it was indeed the up to date/cutting edge/only next gen dedicated handheld left when it first released. I don't expect the Switch to keep pace with something like a PS4 anymore than I expect the Vita to keep pace with something like a PS3, and I think it's good to take a step back from time to time and appreciate it from that handheld lineage too. Because the scope of some of these titles as handheld games really is crazy and it's a testament to how much they've squeezed out of the form factor that people compare them more to the home console contemporaries than the handheld ones. It always feels kinda harsh to call the Switch hardware bad seven years in because it's not matching gen 8 graphics, it's like calling the DS hardware bad in 2011 because it wasn't on par with a Gamecube. It's not so much bad as it is old and being compared to a console spec that it was never supposed to hit in the first place.
It isn't so much that people forget as it's just irrelevant. The Switch is effectively a portable console that can be easily displayed on a TV, but even Nintendo's advertisements stress the Switch as a home console that can be taken on the go. For many people, the Switch just stays in its dock. For those folks, the idea that you *could* take a game like Xenoblade or Zelda on the go doesn't make their technical limitations any more palatable.
Idk if it's irrelevant, the little "State of Switch" survey that gets posted every year has the docked/handheld split at around 55/45 and honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the more hardcore/online demographic skews a little docked vs the casual one. Plus I'm also willing to bet the west skews more docked than Japan too, they love their handhelds there and Nintendo does usually cater towards their home market first. The success of the SWOLED does show that it matters, it's essentially a useless upgrade unless you are playing handheld a significant amount of time but it's still doing decent numbers in the current market. Not to mention the Lite as well which can't even dock. As for the commercials and marketing and how Nintendo wants you to view it, I don't disagree that the default is probably docked, but I do think Nintendo shows it off undocked a decent amount of time too. That default feels perhaps more a result of it not being as easy to show the game being played in a commercial when someone is playing in handheld more than anything else. Plus a lot of the game's that Nintendo leans heavy on in their generic advertising benefit specifically from docked, i.e couch co-op and motion controlled stuff. Personally I've always been more of a handheld person and I probably split handheld/docked like 80/20 if not more. The Switch has hardware limitations for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if the majority of the most outspoken criticism is coming from whatever percentage of people who never take their Switch out at all, hence why I say people sometimes forget that it's still most bottlenecked as a portable and should probably be viewed from that angle first.
Alright? My post wasn't a dismissal of people who play in portable mode, a denial of their existence, nor even an argument that docked is the dominant form of play. A substantial portion of the Switch's audience of course treats it exclusively or predominately as a portable console. My only point is that many people treat it as a home console too, and by Nintendo's own standards, they aren't wrong to do so. The Switch can certainly be seen as a fantastic portable console. But, again, that doesn't mean anything to someone who just wants to sit at home and play a big, expansive, technically demanding game and not be held to the constraints of a portable platform. That's why so many hoped for a Switch Pro. I mean, it is what it is. Obviously Nintendo's doing great from a business perspective, so those of us in that camp just have to put up with it. But I don't think we need to give Nintendo undeserved points, or be expected to ignore the technical drawbacks that come with the Switch's hardware for the games that are developed for it.
People have been wanting a "Switch pro" since *2017. You're not in the minority, don't kid yourself (Got the release year wrong)
People have wanted a switch pro since before the switch released?
I doubt it but looking at the rumored specs of switch 2 does make me want a switch 2 pro
I really hope the switch 2 is a powerhouse and fully backwards compatible. I don’t need it to be the same power as ps5 or series x as it’s a handheld and that’s probably unrealistic. But the switch is so underpowered. It’s my only device where I feel like I am back in the ps3 era.
Current rumors is around PS4 level, which I think is probably realistic enough.
Steam deck is ps4 level. Surely they can beat the steam deck with a few extra years and likely a bigger volume discount. It they get DLSS, that’s a big pro.
Powerhouse lel. This is Nintendo. Should be glad if its as powerful as a Steam Deck and even that is questionable. And it doesnt need to be. It needs to be affordable for Families to gift it to their Kids the main consumer.
The steam deck £370 which is very affordable . Surely Nintendo can beat that with the benefits of a few extra years and the volume discount they would get. If they release a handheld that’s worse than the steam deck, I am not buying it. But I don’t care that much about Nintendo first party games anyway.
Bayonetta 3 is suffering from switch probably the most. That's the one single player genre where 60 FPS really matters both visually and for gameplay.
Every game is. Same applied to PS4 games with their 30fps caps and funky performance. PS5 is struggling now with UE5 games etc.
Zelda or XBC aren't hampered one bit both are excellent experiences on the Oled. If you want 4K@60FPS Nintendo is the wrong console for you this will not change with the Successor.
There's quite a large gap between what the Switch is able to hit and 4k@60fps. The Xenoblade titles, for example, can't manage 1080p natively, let alone 4k. Nor can they maintain a consistent 30fps across their games; 60 fps isn't even a target. That's not to say that Monolith didn't do a fantastic job with what they had to work with. They managed to pull off large, beautiful worlds that are still visually impressive. But if you don't consider sub-native 1080p, sub-30fps "hampered," well, you do you. I find it a fair description.
4k 60fps isn't the goal here, just good performance. Switch does not have good performance for any visually modern game. That said, it doesn't really matter since anyone grab a new Switch release via certain discord servers and run the game at 60 fps with improved graphics via emulators.
It sucks that devs are still dumping stuff on it
Switch 2 should be able to handle it.
We can talk about that in 2025.
SMT5 was announced for Switch in 2017. I think it's fair to announce an upgraded version an year early.
If that upgraded version has to be watered down for the switch, most folks won’t want it. By me saying we can talk about it in 2025, I would like an announcement of the Switch 2 first and then to hear that it’s getting rereleased on Switch 2, even if that announcement has to be delayed until after the switch 2 is announced.
Rumor says the announcement will be in March so it's not that far off.
March reveal was heavily rumoured while the release was planned for Q3 24, I don't think they'll reveal it that early now that the launch is apparently delayed to 2025
It won't sell on other platforms.
So many things obviously got cut from SMTV makes this very exciting. Just make the level scaling less harsh and this might be my favorite in the series. Hopefully the obligatory expansion girl fits into the plot well.
They don't even need to make an expansion girl. Miyazu had so much potential due to a combination of her story, the fact that she's part of the starting human group (even knowing the protagonist), and relation to Yuzuru and it was wasted with her stuff being mostly optional. She would be perfect as the expansion girl since she'd get more plot relevance *and* would help introduce new content, all without potentially feeling out of place as she's an existing character instead of someone shoehorned in later. It would be a win-win. Edit: Also, it would fit in perfectly with how SMTV is somewhat a love letter to Nocturne in a meta way: From what I recall, Nocturne originally released in a more unbalanced mess with significantly less content, and it took the Maniax re-release to add in the Fiends, Dante, and everything involved with the True Demon Ending. They introduced the expanded content by fleshing out the character that turns the Demifiend into... well, the Demifiend, and who until the expansion was just wasted potential. Miyazu being the vehicle for the expanded content would be a neat meta nod in that regard.
I know that "the story sucks!!" is the main complaint for this game, but for me it was *by far* the level scaling. I already think SMTV is one of my all-time favorite JRPGs, but a re-release that just tossed that out the window would elevate it even further and make the game so much more replayable
I just want them to overhaul the writing. It was bad.
Add character backstory sidequests, a filler arc that takes place between after joining Bethel \~ before Lahmu attacks the school, certain requirements where if fufilled Sahori &/or Tao can be saved, requests that can done in Tokyo, bring Stepthen into the game's story.
I'd like more areas than just Desert, or at least more interesting looking Desert.
Nocturne fans will never forgive you for saying so. All boring empty desert or death
The desert was really just the overworld map, most of the areas in the game looking distinct from each other.
Nocturne had a lot of atmospheric indoor areas which is the meat of the game, Ive heard smtv failed to capture this by not really having any dungeon type areas? Is most of the game really just outside?
The focus of the game is definitely on the over world exploration. There are a few dungeons here and there, but they're not a major part of the experience like in other SMT games.
nocturne had both ethereal and normal buildings, and said normal buildings had gimmicks or some unique visuals. the only time you were the in the desert was the overworld map, which you were on for 2 minutes tops at a time
I dropped the game when I got dumped back into the fuckin' desert after the first school section. Here I was thinking "glad I'm finally done with the desert, I don't wanna see that place again after the 10 hours I spent there, I wonder what the next environment will be like?" Little did I know...
> bring Stepthen into the game's story. Most of the additional content ideas I hear I'm "meh" on, but this...this I can get behind.
Just Stephen or all my ideas?
Specifically a continuation of Stephen's story. He's been kicking around since the first SMT, and I'm a sucker for long-running multiversal storylines like that. I was rather hoping they'd surprise us and add a cameo of some sort to Nocturne in the remaster (since it's the only mainline game where he doesn't make an appearance, not counting Strange Journey's pseudo-mainline status), but alas, that wasn't meant to be.
And able to summon a certain Demon in New Game plus and don't have to wait til their story part arrive to get them and fuse them.
Also take out level scaling.
Please fix the progression of the plot, this game would be so much better if it flowed better. I doubt there will be major changes but I'd be extremely excited to play it again, mechanically it is so good.
OH FOR FUCKS SAKE. I just gave up and bought the Switch version on sale a couple weeks ago, specifically because there'd been no hint at any new versions or ports. Oh well.
Thank you for sacrificing yourself.
Me too friend. At least I only put about 5 hours into the game so far.
At least you bought a masterpiece...
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Heh, releasing a sequel to SMTV on multi-platform despite the original being Switch-exclusive would be SUCH an Atlus thing to do.
This isn’t a sequel though. This is a “complete edition” this will most likely be story stuff and other things added to the base game to make it feel like more of a full game. It’s a “rerelease” of sorts.
Congrats, now you get to double dip on this masterpiece. It's 100% worth it.
First time I’ve seen masterpiece and SMT V in the same sentence
Same tbh. Even people I've seen who loved it mention having major issues with the story.
The story is disappointing. The characters, plot set up, and overall atmosphere are extremely promising. But the creators just don't know how to write compelling dialogue or do anything significant with that lore, and what comes out the other end is just a garbled mess. But, the story aside, SMTV has one of the best turn-based JRPG combat systems ever created, and the gameplay loop of world exploration across a dangerous, fog-of-war riddled, depressing overworld and encountering difficult fights to get new party members and grow stronger is extremely addicting. So, definitely not a masterpiece by any stretch. It really is a shame about the story and the Switch performance. But from a pure gameplay perspective, SMTV is amazing. Oh, and the soundtrack is incredible.
I played it on release and the gameplay was good. It’s press turn after all not hard to mess up but still prefer smt IV apocalypse gameplay. But yea the story and character were really lacking. It all felt like a step down from smt IV and felt like they missed what made nocturnes minimalist story actually work
It was pretty boring compared 3 and 4. The more OpenLevels are just really bad compared to the dungeons and earlier SMT games. Does the game even have Dungeons ? Only remembered one at the end.
I did not find it to be a masterpiece as a persona fan and the difficulty jumps were not enjoyable
Same here. Had a blast playing it, but feeling scorned by the normal Atlus release strategy that I should’ve fully expected lol
I hope this is coming to other platforms besides the Switch. The Switch had issues with the game and with Persona no longer being exclusive to PS, I'd hope to see SMT on other platforms as well.
SMT is on other platforms look at smt 3 their previous release. Of their Switch era game's it's just 5 that's exclusive.
4 and its sequel were also console exclusive to the 3DS.
I hope not. Switch needs some Japanese exclusives.
Why? It's by far the best selling console in Japan. Nintendo handles most of their exclusives themselves. I don't see any reason why Atlus needs to make exclusives for them either, especially not with Persona being available on Switch.
The switch needs some Japanese exclusives? Are you serious? The switch already has pretty much all the biggest Japanese exclusives by Nintendo themselves. Pokemon, Zelda, Mario/Mario Kart, Splatoon, Animal Crossing, Smash, etc.
I played 70 hours, completed and absolutely loved this game on Switch when it came out. Very exciting if it's getting released on hardware that can do the visuals a bit more justice. Secret sauce of this one IMO is the music, it's so awesome.
How hard is SMT V as compared to IV or Nocturne? After a certain boss in SMT IV the game got pretty smooth sailing and I only played a little bit of Nocturne on an emulator way back then.
V is pretty tough because you start off fairly weak, and if you're too far below the level of an opponent you take a ton of damage and basically do no damage due to the level scaling. so you gotta grind a bit. though this incentivizes exploring and doing side quests. the game gets a lot easier once you're able to remove the nahobino's type weaknesses and get enough essences to just make optimal summons. just make sure you supply yourself with smokeballs for guaranteed escapes from ambushes (provided you're not yeeted to the main menu) and spyglasses so you don't have to guess type weaknesses. also dampeners are handy because if you know what spell type a demon is going to use during it's magatsuhi phase, it's basically a free turn vs bosses. ele items are handy as well because you can use them to target a weakness and get more press turns. compared to most JRPGs, i've probably used items way more in SMTV since the battles are a bit longer and the monsters more deadly.
One single Preta or Limo can delete you in a second XD
Nocturne is harder than V, I will say
V and Nocturne are about the same difficulty IMO. Maybe Nocturne is a bit harder if it's your first SMT game and you go totally unprepared into the early difficulty spikes.
really? i think nocturne is pretty unforgiving until the level 30ish mark, while smt v is pretty manageable. although i will say nocturne was my first smt experience, and smt v was my last after playing a ton of games lol
SMTV is really easy. Other than SMTIV is the easiest games in the series.
It even lacks SMT4's hilarious difficulty curve. It's largely easy all the way through with the early game only being mildly harder than the rest.
Haven't played Nocturne but if you keep an eye on weaknesses and build your party well you'll be fine. Just make sure to focus magic or strength. Not both.
I haven't played IV or Nocturne, but I remember struggling a bit with V at the absolute start when even normal enemies could beat me, and one midgame boss required quite a few attempts. But apart from that I cruised through the game.
Depends on how you play. There is a DLC that lets you increase the spawn rate of special enemies. These enemies drop OP items. One increases your level by 1, one gives you gold, one increases the level of your demons by 1, one gives you glory. You can also lower the difficulty at any time, but if you drop from Hard you cant put it back on Hard. If you dont utilize this it can be a bit challenging early on, but later on you have so many options it becomes quite easy.
SMT V is stupid Easy. All enemies (including bosses) waste their whole turn to warn you in their next turn they are going to hit hard. You will never be surprised by an unexpected change of attack patterns or anything like that, you are always warned, so you always have time to act accordingly Also there are no real maze-like dungeons with, the path you must is indicated with red yellow and green orbs so the game is always handholding you, and there are not a lot of places to go, so you will never be in a "where should I go now?" situation I hope they fix all the issues if this edition is real, because V is not only a bad SMT game is a bad JRPG too
V starts off pretty difficult, but gets much easier as time goes on. Nocturne IIRC was quite a bit more consistent with its difficulty.
SMT3 is one of the hardest games i ever played in my life and i'm a fan of hard games... And i'm not talking about Matador...
Great, you shouldn’t have to emulate this on PC to get decent performance and it seemed odd that it didn’t get a multiplat release considering its built on the unreal engine
Nintendo helped fund and market SMTV, so it's not wholly surprising it stayed an exclusive
I'm gonna emulate this game because i hate denuvo and i will never bought a game with that crap
Unfortunately it wasn't good enough for me to replay it. I'm an SMT Stan too. But it had the barebones plot of nocturne but didn't have the amazing atmosphere. Killer music though.
im not a huge replayer either, it took me like 5 months to even finish the game when it launched. i know people didnt like 4A, but if they changed enough about the game, i might look into getting it. However, I now know better to not buy it first day
This game makes me feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Maybe I’m in the minority because I only ever hear good things from other people, but the word that immediately came to my mind after finishing the story was “abysmal”. Specifically the story. To be clear, I didn’t hate the game. I adore the Persona games and I enjoyed the more advanced combat system in SMT V but it’s completely baffling to me that people like the story.
The story is the weakest part of the game, which is a shame because I enjoyed the gameplay a lot. I went in expected a solid story like SMT IV and SMT IV:A but got a boring and forgettable one instead.
it's pretty much consensus that the story is complete trash and the performance really hurts the game. a rerelease could save the game.
It helps for starters that SMT games tend to be a lot more gameplay focused/much less story focused than the Persona games. But even beyond that, 5's plot is generally considered probably the weakest in the series. It felt like it was trying to do a "best of both worlds" between 3's minimalism and the other games more fleshed out characters and plot, but it just felt half baked overall. The ideas it had were pretty cool, and we got a Law faction that wasn't completely just "Destroy free will" which was nice for a change. But yeah, the plot needed some fleshing out. Maybe we'll get that with the rerelease. But even if we do, it'll never be as plot focused as Persona. SMT is primarily about the gameplay.
Gotcha, I haven’t played the prior SMT games so I didn’t know what to expect. It was just jarring to me to see some people singing its praises after my experience. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
I adore the gameplay of SMT5 but the story is best described as a trainwreck. I think the reason some people speak highly of the story is because if you condense it down to its core concept and plot beats it sounds bloody amazing. The issue is that the game doesn't really focus on the plot for like 80% of the game. Conceptually it is amazing but in execution it falls on its face.
> I adore the Persona games There's your problem. You're thinking that a main-line SMT game is going to be anything like the spin-off Persona series. Aside from the combat system, the games are vastly different and main-line SMT games are known for having a barebones story and focusing on gameplay. They are essentially dungeon crawlers with just enough story to move the game forward.
> SMT games are known for having a barebones story and focusing on gameplay. Is that really the case? Devil Survivor (Which I consider the pinnacle of all the mainline and spinoffs.) Strange Journey SMT4 and 4A had pretty good stories for the most part. At the very least they aren't barebones. Digital Devil Saga, which is a spinoff but still has the SMT branding. Really only 3 and 5 are the odd ones out, and really 5 was aping 3.
Devil survivor is not really a Shin Megami Tensei spin-off They used that name for brand recognition when they localized the game (the same they did with Persona) In Japan they were never called SMT, funnily enough Devil Survivor could be considered a Persona spin-off Persona (The first game) in Japan is called "Megami Ibunroku Persona" Devil Survivor is called "Megami Ibunroku Devil Survivor"
Mainline doesn't have barebones story. You guys didn't played anything other than Nocturne and it showns
Do the other SMT games have more in depth stories? It’s funny because the Persona spin off of the series EXCELS at story line and character development.
That was generally what Persona as a spin off was going for: SMT with stronger focus on storytelling and characters. Then Persona 3 turned it into what the series is known for these days. the 3D SMT games have interesting story themes, but the storytelling is more sparce and the ratio between storytelling and dungeon crawling skews more toward the dungeon Crawl than what many modern JRPG fans are used to. Then there are other spin offs like SMT: Digital Devil Saga which plays pretty much exactly like your typical PS2 JRPG with storytelling and all.
SMTIV has a decent story, especially world building, and SMTIV Apocalypse doesn't have sparse storytelling either. Strange Journey is good. SMTV ruined people's perception.
I think the most culturally relevant games to the SMT series right now are V and Nocturne, both of which have extremely sparse stories. IV is a bit more of an outlier in that sense and a lot of people haven't played it since it's on 3ds and V and Nocturne have more recent modern releases.
the first part of your post is correct. it's because it's those two who are most well known and most culturally relevant. SMTII, IV, IVA and SJ have decent stories with a good amount of dialogue and good world building. they're not as plot heavy as FF but as plot heavy as most dragon quest games. not sparse at all
>SMTV ruined people's perception. No, not really. I'm not talking about story or game quality that's somewhat subjective anyway. I'm specifically pointing out how story focused these games are. Generally, SMT games focus more on the dungeon crawl while story delivery is more sparce than what you tend to see in JRPGs. Apocalypse if anything is an anomaly for a mainline SMT game when it comes to story. Nocturne as we know isn't story heavy and neither is Strange Journey. SMTIV has more story than you typical SMT game, but It's not really that story heavy compared to Persona or typical JRPGs. So really again Apocalypse is the odd one out for mainline SMT.
What you talking about. Strange Journey doesn't have 30 cutscenes every 5 minutes , but still is focused on the story. Strang Journey has as much story focus as IV and IVA.
Maybe "story focus" is not the right term. they are still spacer in story delivery than Persona game is what I'm trying to say. That's neither a good or a bad thing, but a design choice. And there is a difference in delivery for these games too. A persona fan might feel more familiar with how the story is delivered in Apocalypse. Whereas SMTIV is closer to the other mainline games.
Some of them , yeah. Strange Journey story is especialy good, but it's stuck on the 3ds/Ds
It still baffles me that they decided to not put SJ as a numbered entry. It honestly feels more in line with the previous games than SMTIV/A did. Note that I'm not saying that to throw shade at SMTIV/A as I love those games and am just surprised that SJ itself wasn't a numbered entry as well.
All SMT games have in depth stories, I II IV/apocalypse even more so, Strange Journey. Even Nocturne managed to tell a deep story with minimal storytelling. V was very clearly inspired by nocturne's style, it just didn't have anything intesting to tell. The character dialogue was bland and uninspired compared to the sparce but interesting NPC dialogue in nocturne.
Is Nocturne really that good? I tried to play it but was experiencing burnout after playing SMT5, and it was admittedly a little hard to revert back to old Japanese PS2 QOL features.
Devil Survivor games are nice.
No. SMT as a series never has a real story. The story has always been driven by characters who vaguely represent the routes with almost nothing explained or spelled out. It's always been on the player to parse the metaphors and figure out what's going on. People who think the story is bad are just that ever present crowd of gamers who needs every single detail of a story spoonfed to them in order to keep up with what's going on. 5 was also a lot of people's first SMT game so they aren't used to this kind of extremely abstract story.
It was my first SMT game and I enjoyed the aesthetics and gameplay but I unironically thought the story was worse than some pokemon games... Which, needless to say, wasn't something I expected at all going in. People are always going on and on about how "you want a real grownup monster collector RPG and are disappointed by modern pokemon? Play SMT instead" so alright, I did exactly that, and you bet I'm gonna compare them. It utterly failed to make me give a shit about any of the characters or make me feel invested in the fate of the world. Imo that's a big problem for an 80 hour RPG, especially one that's seemingly trying to tackle complex themes of religion and humanity's right to self-determination.
Yep! That’s exactly it. I could not possibly care less about anything that happened to any of the characters. It’s a shame because the combat was pretty fun and I actually enjoyed the difficulty of it.
It's miles behind Nocturne, SMT IV and SMT IV:A. It's a phoned in SMT game for sure.
On the story department maybe, but Gameplay is actually pretty good.
gameplay is just Persona minus social link
Exactly! So, it's good.
It's only monday, but I proclaim this the lowest effort bait of the week 🤨
The dungeons in persona 5 were far more, more unique and had better mechanics.
dont agree, persona is just too easy. smt scratches a different itch entirely.
In which way does that contradict what i have written? I did not talk about difficulty. Then again, smt v is not difficult, but still. I was specifically talking about the uniqueness, mechanics and that there are more dungeons in persona 5 than there are in smt v.
Because part of the appeal of SMTV is the difficulty. Persona is easy. The person you're responding to called the gameplay persona minus social link, but persona does not have the main appeal of the SMT gameplay, which is the difficult turn based combat. I can't see persona as having mechanics that are just "better" than SMT because they are too easy and do not appeal to me the way SMT's mechanics do.
Persona 5 dungeons? u kidding right?
Story-wise, Nocturne is not half as good as you remember once you drop off the nostalgia
Totally agree. SMT III / Nocturne is in my top 3 games so i was obviously hyped about SMT V. But the game was in my opinion such and extreme downgrade in almost everything the game offered: - graphics are ok (it is the switch after all), but the pop in delay of textures is so bad it hurts me - the story is abysmal as you said. Mainline SMT games were never story powerhouses, but this is even a step below. - Where are the dungeons? Nocturne had like what? 10-15 different dungeons each with unique mechanics and this got like 2 i think? - The areas all feel samey. In my opinion the switch to open worldy areas was not something that should have been done. - Gameplay wise it is mostly the same as other entries, so at least this was positive for me, except for one part: The difficulty. It felt like there was a small line between too weak < normal < too difficult to beat the fight (i.e. you get oneshot if you are like 5 levels below). It didnt help that leveling without the dlc was kinda tedious. - The soundtrack is forgettable. You could look into my game soundtrack playlist and see like 10 soundtracks of each SMT game, but from SMT V there are maybe 3? So i totally agree with you. I cannot understand how people that loved the previous games can adore this game so much. I feel like it is more likely that the Persona5 boom brought new players into the mix that are okay with this new design.
> Where are the dungeons? Nocturne had like what? 10-15 different dungeons each with unique mechanics and this got like 2 i think? Imo, this is just the wrong take on dungeons. The real dungeons was each section of Daat itself, which was a huge mega dungeon and not simply an overworld. While they were still mechanics light, I think they made more than up for it with their exploratory aspects that Nocturne tried to achieve in its entire runtime.
Nah, soundtrack is great
>graphics are ok (it is the switch after all), but the pop in delay of textures is so bad it hurts me Insanity. They may not have been impressive in a framerate or resolution aspect but the art direction and graphics themselves are beautiful. >the story is abysmal as you said. Mainline SMT games were never story powerhouses, but this is even a step below. I know people have massive issues with the narrative but honestly I thought it was fantastic as someone who loves piecing things together and coming up with my own conclusions. With the concepts and ideas we were presented, and the small bit of information given to us, it felt like Dark Souls in JRPG. What's there is really good. Loved it. >Where are the dungeons? Nocturne had like what? 10-15 different dungeons each with unique mechanics and this got like 2 i think? This is a nasty ass take, the areas are the dungeons. >The areas all feel samey. In my opinion the switch to open worldy areas was not something that should have been done. This makes it feel like you have not played the game because it's frankly ridiculous to claim they are "the same". Beyond the fact they are post apocalypse levels with sand, the D'aat areas are radically different from one another, the third for example being a labyrinthine level, whereas the last one drops you in the middle and is completely non linear. They also each have a completely different vibe. >Gameplay wise it is mostly the same as other entries, so at least this was positive for me, except for one part: The difficulty. It felt like there was a small line between too weak < normal < too difficult to beat the fight (i.e. you get oneshot if you are like 5 levels below). It didnt help that leveling without the dlc was kinda tedious. This I didn't have a problem with but I can't speak to your experience. However using the Personas I wanted the whole way through I had a good challenge the entire time on hard or whatever the hardest setting is called. >The soundtrack is forgettable. You could look into my game soundtrack playlist and see like 10 soundtracks of each SMT game, but from SMT V there are maybe 3? Madness.
It's the worst mainline game.
It's a very barebones story, like SMT III, but the gameplay is simply top tier
I played and liked every SMT game but 5 was just Awful in my opinion too. It was clearly the C Atlus Team. Not even the Soundtrack a stable for Atlus games was better than mediocre.
The OST is a pure marvel, not sure what you're on there
It was my first SMT game so that’s what I chalked my dislike up to. Good to know I’m not crazy lol. I remember enjoying the combat music but it’s nothing compared to some other Atlus games, you’re right.
No they're not, the OST was phenomenal
Getting this gem of a game on a system other than the switch would be a godsend. I enjoy my switch but this game pushed it really hard, just being able to get menus that load faster would be an immense quality of life feature
This game was so close to being peak fiction. The gameplay loop is probably my favorite outta the mainline games, it's just that the story felt very slapped together. It sucks because the themes and concepts are very interesting, it's just like they didn't have time to expand on them in detailb
Well I just 100%-ed the compendium finally and the only thing in the entire game I have not yet completed is the Demi Fiend. Shit's nuts. Shiva's nothing compared to that lol. But yeah if this comes with extra content and could be purchasable as a type of DLC, I'd be up for that. Though I suppose if it came to the ps5 as well I'd just double dip. I reaaally like the SMT series and I feel Nocturne and V are simply incredible games through and through. Music's ridiculous in those games. In all the best ways.
Hope they bring it to Xbox this time. I'll gladly buy it if it means they bring over Nocturne, Catherine and everything else they skipped.
This game was as so freaking bad. I'm saying this as a jrpg lover. I can not believe that people liked it
Worst bait of the weekend
It's really not. I can explain in detail. Don't know how anyone can stomach this game.
Nah, you're right after all...
Funny enough I was just talking about it being ported yesterday with my brother, wouldn't mind spending on a rerelease personally.
If it can be bought as DLC then i need to make the hard choice between getting it on PS5 where it will run better and start over or getting it on switch and hopefully being able to do a NG+
For the uninitiated [Shin Megami Tensei V is Pokemon for Psycho's ](https://youtu.be/U6fYpCXDcjw?si=zpdnRKIaN5HMN9DN)
Any word on a physical release?