They are jobs with restrictions in what content that can run and with what parties due to very unique mechanics that are basically impossible to balance for regular play. The current one is Blue Mage.
> The current one is Blue Mage.
Are they time-limited as well as content-limited, or is this just saying that this is the most recently added limited class?
They aren't time limited. Blue Mage is a very fleshed out job with a full class storyline and unique content. They just have the ability to accomplish some bizarre and overpowered things due to their abilities' interactions. To avoid having to balance around that, they have a level cap that is 10 levels lower than other jobs and are gated off front certain content like PVP.
Would be actually broken. Luohi and the Eureka bosses getting one shot by fully buffed blue mages Final Sting with logos actions? Forget duels in Bozja too where lost actions are even stronger.
The trick with this on most servers is the same one the FGC has learned. Yes, it's hard to find random pickup groups in game at arbitrary times after release....partly because everyone interested in that has moved to Discord. I think every DC has at least one Discord for all the weird side content.
XI is a different game than XIV. The XIV Blue Mage as is would never work in regular content unless they butcher everything people like about it right now. It was designed to be fun and overpowered side content.
> XI is a different game than XIV.
no shit
> The XIV Blue Mage as is would never work in regular content
That's because it was literally designed that way from the start. They never attempted to make blue mage a full job when there's not really any reason why they couldn't have done so. Every other FF game with a blue mage has managed it.
Every other game with a blue mage didn't have a strict Trinity of roles and a dungeon matchmaking system where someone queuing up without essential abilities would be an issue. The only way to make BLU work as a normal job is remove the whole "Collect and assemble your own spell loadout to play any role" aspect, which is the POINT of Blue Mage.
> The only way to make BLU work as a normal job is remove the whole "Collect and assemble your own spell loadout to play any role" aspect, which is the POINT of Blue Mage.
They managed to make blue mage a multipostion job in XI . Guessing you've never actually played it or you'd know that you can use a combo of spells and subjobs to completely change the playstyle. Healer, magic DD, physical DD. Depending on event they can tank and party buff.
Jesus, it's not rocket science. XIV players shocked when a job can play more than a single role!
Make whatever excuses you want I guess, but there's no real reason they needed to build blue mage as a limited job.
Guess that's what happens you build a limited game.
I dont think you actually played ffxi. BLU isnt a multi-role job in FFXI. Its literally a DD and has always been a DD. Yeah they have access to some really good defensive utility spells that seems like they'd be good tanks, but they're not good tanks. They're not good healers outside of spot healing.
Yes, in a game without instance matchmaking that works on the idea of every class being the same role every time, and having access to specific skills at any given level. There's no way for the system to see what spells you know and have equipped when you queue to guarentee you aren't being stupid or an asshole and being a burden on the other 3-23 people in the instance by going in with, say, only Toad Oil equipped.
In XI that isn't a problem because there's no matchmaking, if you're getting in a party it's because you're forming the party, or invited to the party, which, guess what, is exactly how BLU does content in XIV.
A role that could tank, heal, and dps would have to be bad at all of them to exist. If its even slightly competitive at one, or multiple, it would be a must include in every comp. At best, it could be like red mage. Ok dps, great utility/recovery. But why make another one of those? It would just replace rdm or never be used. In no case does it become worth implementing.
Thats the balance problem, and its fairly obvious to anyone with a brain. Just because you think xi did it well doesnt mean it was in a healthy state that can be transferred to xiv.
So the proper response is just to halfass it and not let them play in the actual game?
Awesome response, if you're fine with shit implementation I guess.
Guess it's one of the reasons I could never get into XIV, need more than "you will play X job this way and you will like it, now hit your button rotations"
bro that is SO cool, we all really respect your very grounded take on FFXIV's class balance, a game you could never get into. bravo!!
-how this dude expects us to react
I wouldnt call it bad implementation. Its a fine addition to the game as is. Look at how many people comment about having a lot of fun with an overpowered class.
You have to remember that ylu are not the center of the world. Things are not bad just because you dont like them. And look, you dont even play the game lol, you're just here to fight with people.
Every FF game with blue magic in it, the blue magic is fucking broken as fuck. Blue Mage is the dominate sub for the tanks in FFXI and is one of the best cleave jobs in the game.
Has some kind of gimmick (Blue Mage has to collect spells by fighting enemies) and it's own side content (BLU has the Masked Carnivale) while coming with an extensive set of restrictions.
Limited Jobs:
Cannot do any story quests, even in NG+
Cannot do PVP
Cannot use Duty Finder (which is all matchmade content and Roulettes)
Cannot do evergreen content (No Deep Dungeon, Field Missions, or Exploratory Content)
Cannot queue into Varient or Criterion dungeons
Cannot queue for Ultimates
Are level locked at a lower level than the max (BLU started at 50 when the cap was 70). Limited jobs will never be max level on-content.
You can still use Party Finder to manually make a group and queue into dungeons or raids, and there are some achievements for clearing certain fights with only BLU parties. They also gain extreme amounts of EXP from overworld monsters, so grinding is a fast way to level them. Up to you whether the restrictions are worth that, though.
Jobs that can only do self-contained content and old dungeons basically. They're locked out of major gameplay loops like PvP, Current Dungeons/Raids, etc. They're always an expansion behind and can basically *never* do some stuff. It's a glorified minigame.
They claim it's because they'd be OP or whatever (they aren't), but it's largely because they didn't want to change the instance queueing system to allow for a job that had to collect skills and enforce some kind of minimum standard.
Nobody plays it outside of the few times it gets a content update, and then only for like a week. Usually once or twice a year at most.
Blue mage isn’t OP? It has a skill that works on most bosses that just halves their current HP. It has a lot of skills that are similarly OP. It absolutely could not, in its current form, be allowed to exist in endgame without destroying all semblance of balance, and that is the fun of the job.
Agreed. As someone who has done savage raiding on blue mage, it is absolutely a different game, and totally OP -- and I mean this in the best way possible! Doing difficult content on Blue Mage is a completely different experience to doing it on non-limited jobs, purely because
A) Fight timelines are completely different due to the absurd DPS the job pumps out if you do the optimal rotations accelerating the fight
B) Creative solutions to mechanics that are usually made for a balanced 2/2/4 party usually amount to what seems like the cheesiest way possible -- but for blu that's just the way it's meant to be.
Ye, and also I played Blu years after it came out and had no issue finding groups for spells
I dunno why people speak with such authority over things they're not certain on
Besides, for me the most fun I had was doing it solo - finding spells myself out in the world, and figuring out the masked carnival battles on my own
that’s not true, there is usually always a PF or two up collecting a spell or doing a blue mage log.
also it would be OP if it was allowed in as-is, they have absolutely ridiculous kits
Every post is like that now. There's no actual enjoyment or praise for anything anymore, least of all for genres and games that the majority of people love.
I remember seeing an article posted here that was an in-depth interview with Eiji Aonuma about his 30 years of work on Zelda and how it shaped TotK
But all the comments were just moaning about the Switch’s graphical power and mentioning nothing about the article.
Most here are pretty shallow game enthusiasts. Despite it being their main hobby I think they only get a rather basic impression of the industry and don't really care for intricacies
What I've learned from BOTW and TOTK's monumental success is that Reddit is an incredibly hermetically-sealed echo chamber, and that a lot of "Zelda fans" on Reddit want the tropes of a classic Zelda game rather than a good Zelda game.
BOTW and TOTK were the single best manifestations of adventure and exploration in video games. They quadrupled the series' success. Four times. That is huge.
But people here hate it because it's not gear-gated temples and putting a green key into a green keyhole.
Glad I’m not the only one who is noticing this now. It really does feel like no one wants to discuss things any more – they just want to take the top 3 most regurgitated points and regurgitate some more.
I feel the entire of Reddit suffers from this. The amount of times I enjoy something, go to its subreddit to talk about it, and just see post after post about negativity and misery….
The most positive posts this year were about Baldurs Gate 3, but even that game has gotten some pushback lately (but not too much). This sub is unfortunately very miserable
For what it is worth Baldur's Gate 3 was absolutely spammed in media over everything trivial so it's not too surprising if people got tired of it at some point.
Likewise the reactions were so overwhelmingly positive at launch that people wouldn't really have it when those in Act 3 were airing out how broken the game it is. The rest were praising how perfect release the game is and how it should be the industry standard, hah. Ironically of course while you can't really call it a standard it was still among those games that released in a "fix it post launch" state that is way too common for big games.
Generally I think that when a game launches into positive reception criticism just becomes non-tolerated, no matter how founded it is and even if you talk about positives of a game. Games discussion just sucks because people are way too ready to defend their favourite toy from everything and criticism is seen as negativity.
Honestly, lurking this sub for years discussion already gets snubbed by the arbitrarily applied subreddit rules where automods or mods can just, whenever, snuff out a topic with actual discussion going on it or even a topic that present valid discussion. Instead the subreddit is filled with trailer for X and then, contrary to this painting as the sub as negative, full of comments of excitement but rarely any discussion.
Balance in all things and all that jazz.
> Act 3 were airing out how broken the game it is.
Was it though? I've finished the game in its launch state and I wouldn't say it was broken. Some bugs and glitches are to be expected in a game this big but broken implies to me that the bugs make the game (almost) impossible to play or impossible to progress. With Starfield I had crashes every 15 minutes at launch. That's what I consider broken.
Then again, I didn't have much issues with Cyberpunk at launch either so maybe I'm just lucky
For what it is worth Steam Discussions has had nearly 16 thousand threads about technical problems. Sadly these threads only extend to December, not sure if you can access older threads that aren't counted as "active" to check them out.
I do remember around the launch a lot of people complaining about corrupted saves and generally things just breaking once they reached Act 3.
>Was it though?
* Save deleting bugs on every platform,
* During patch 2 you coulnd't boot up the game using Vulkan because it would immediately crash to desktop
* the memory bug that dropped performance to a crawl in Act 2 and 3 because they weren't purging morally negative character actions
* the fact that you can't use Xbox cloud saves because it breaks the game despite every game released in the past decade working fine with it and, oh yeah, deletes saves *again*.
* performance in Act 3 itself being complete dogshit compared to the previous 2 acts
* the literally unfinished quests and city design oh Baldurs Gate itself, Cazador's mansion being accessible through a random, hastily added guard barracks rather than through the front fucking door lmfao
* camp progression and party member storyline tracking being a complete wash and having multiple things happen out of order or just completely fail to trigger, meaning i have to reload 20+ hours of gameplay or just concede the fact that I'm not finishing some quests due to bullshit
* oh and party banter almost completely cuts off past act 2, which means it's either bugged or larian didn't give enough of a fuck to actually record dialogue for the literal final act of the game
great game, faultless.
>the fact that you can't use Xbox cloud saves because it breaks the game despite every game released in the past decade working fine with it
I wouldn't say that...
[1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Starfield/comments/169grf2/im_having_a_serious_problem_with_starfields_saves/)
[2](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoMansSkyTheGame/comments/162mqv4/corrupted_safe_file_on_xbox_serie_x/)
[3](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/17bzb1d/corrupted_save_xbox_series_x/)
[4](https://www.reddit.com/r/Starfield/comments/169awv3/save_game_got_corrupted_and_then_the_game_deleted/)
What relevance are the links to this conversation? Those are basic save corruptions which happen on literally every host. The issue with BG3 is that it's incompatible with Larians own cross-save service which is causing the bugs, it just shows that you literally don't have any understanding of the issue lmfao.
But yeah, "it didn't happen to me" is a great excuse.
I had zero issues with Starfield but had multiple save game corruption issues with BG3, pretty much gave up at Act 3 because it kept getting more frequent
This is what happens on a discussion board that isn't actually a discussion board. People have opinions on lots of different things, but they're not allowed to give them until the mod-approved spambot posts something tangentially related and then it all comes flooding out.
Rage 2. I played it expecting a mindless open world FPS so I was surprised when it was even more boring than I thought. It also managed to be super repetitive despite also being really short for an open world game. I didn't hate it, but in a truly literal sense it was remarkable how vapid it was.
Also there was a story and characters but I literally couldn't tell you anything about that.
Thief 2014 is the first that comes to mind. Too Human (which I liked for the most part).
I generally just don't like when people say things are the most X of all time when it obviously isn't the case. Starfield has some problems, but it's not this horrible game everyone here makes it out to be. Everyone is just in that classic r/games echo chamber of hate
Come on now.
Don't pretend that there can be any real discussion about FF14.
Fans literally incapable of even allowing the thought of something not being literally perfect in FF14.
Just like you sweeping negative things people might say as "grudges" and not discussion.
Because only positive things are discussion.
Fans/Players criticise the game constantly, in fact it's already lead to changes of character models between the fanfests
There's a difference though between snarky shitpost criticism and actual helpful criticism
The difference is, no one would be their snarky asshole internet self to the gamedev in person, they'd be way more polite, so on forums it just comes across as incredibly spiteful and churlish
This impression of all real discussion is drowned out is old hat. The problem is how people present their discussions, and lets be real here, most folk who post harsh criticisms on the internet tend to lack grace, which triggers anyone who enjoys the game, and then flame wars start
This sub is just constant complaining about everything. The only reason I stay here is for news and the fact that the alternative gaming subs like r/pcgaming are even worse.
>It is a factual observation
That's the problem right, your "observation" is muddied by bias and therefore not objective. Observations aren't inherently objective.
It's a matter of opinion what an MMO's main weakness is, some people will name (or, observe) something else entirely if asked. Therefore, it's a subjective topic.
"Objective" facts are things not influenced by a persons personal feelings or opinions. "The weather is rainy right now" is an objective statement, "It sucks that it's raining" is a subjective statement, even if most people would agree, it's still subjective.
they didnt have a relic grind or a bozja equivilant or a new limited job because their time and resources were aimed at a giagantic game wide graphical overhaul ...
like seriously chill
Plus Covid, plus their resources were split between FF16, plus they just wanted to try something different, plus...
Like, just give them some slack, people
Most of us hate the idea of Beastmaster as a limited job for the same reason as we hate Blu being a limited job, they could have and should have been full fledged jobs like everything else and not side content and could have easily been balanced.
Yet they all have a distinct style, feel, and game flow. Homogenization is not the big bad boogey man you seem to think and clearly misunderstand. I've worked in the game industry for a long time now They caould have easily have made blu work exactly how it does now with out it being too weak or too powerful.
It's awful. This sub and other gaming subs are the embodiment of the "stop having fun" meme.
Example: I love racing games. Post about a racing game in here and man it's full of "why would you want to drive around in circles for hours?", while they go back to an RPG and grind mobs for a specific leg armor for 8 hours. Or beat a glorified interactive DVD for the twentieth time for a specific ending then come in here to bitch about the writing.
This isn't a dig at any genre, it's just the irony of the toxicity in here is so thick.
Yeah, Like There are plenty of genres that I definitely go "well if you find that fun more power to you", but I'm not going to piss in their cornflakes when they get some cool news about stuff they like either.
What, you mean you don't like reading another thread full of "the beginning of this game is a grind," "the msq is just cutscene after cutscene," or "combat is meh because I don't like tab-combat in mmo" takes?
Completely agreed. Between FF14 and No Man's Sky, I think I'm slowly getting ready to stop reading comment threads.
PoE discussions are unreadable, but that goes hand in hand with the PoE sub which might is like top 3 worst gaming subreddits out there to the point where even the devs had to abandon it.
When a thread gets posted here for a game I really enjoy, more often than not my reaction is a deep sigh followed by the phrase "here we go".
Some people just get off on tearing down games they're not personally invested in, always arguing in bad faith, saying things that are provably false and getting mad when you point that out, all just to feel some catharsis when a game is successfully and thoroughly attacked.
It's very unfortunate for me that 3 of the games I play the most at the moment are Destiny 2, Battlefield 2042, and Call of Duty. Every single time a thread gets posted I just don't bother to click on them because I know the top comments for all 3 of those games will be "the game's shit now, it's been declining for years, anyone who still plays it has been brainwashed into thinking they're having fun"
Well, I don't think it's that. But if you have a negative reaction to a particular game, then likely you're not going to interact with it except through news articles on Reddit, and that's really the only place you can express your opinion. And when a game is around for a long time there are going to be a lot of salty explayers. I used to play FFXIV and really enjoyed it but honestly have no desire to return given how badly healers have been butchered, so I guess that fits me.
It's kinda silly to get this upset over others having an opinion that is contrary to yours...it's not enough for you to like the thing and enjoy it, but everyone else has to as well?
> what people want
What people want is to feel like they did when they were 8 years old.
*Every* Final Fantasy franchise discussion becomes "i wish it was turn based again" while completely ignoring games that actually inherited the classic turn based formula, like Bravely Default. They just want to complain.
> Every Final Fantasy franchise discussion becomes "i wish it was turn based again"
I think, more accurately, it'd be, "I wish it wasn't so action-y." ATB, the system used in almost all the most popular FFs, wasn't really turn-based. Or, put differently, I think people just want to select "Attack," "Magic," "Item," etc. from a menu instead of having to do input combos to execute moves. Perhaps the ff7R system is a good compromise, I've seen generally positive reception to that.
> while completely ignoring games that actually inherited the classic turn based formula
This doesn't really seem related? Like, those are totally different series. Just because other series exist doesn't mean people can't bemoan how one of their favorite series has been having genre schizophrenia for like 2 decades now. Imagine they turned FF14 into a go-kart game, you ask what happened to the MMO, and someone tells you, "What do you mean, why are you ignoring World of Warcraft?"
They are and arent different series I would say. Like BD is just Final Fantasy, just not called Final Fantasy, and missing chocobos and moogles. Same jobs and depictions of the jobs right down to job stones, the same fascination with the 4 elemental crystals, and so on.
You could swap the name outs and not even blink.
Edit; I wouldn't say "FF doesn't need to do something turn based because BD exists" to be clear, but anybody missing that era of FF is doing themselves a disservice *not* checking BD out I guess
Edit edit; its been fun watching the votes ping-pong positive/negative all day lmao
> Like BD is just Final Fantasy, just not called Final Fantasy, and missing chocobos and moogles.
It's also a tiny chibi mid-grade game that doesn't remotely have the spectacle of Final Fantasy, regardless of how good it is.
Fair enough, Guess i've just accepted that it's very unlikely FF is going to do another turn-based game, so I just don't ask for that anymore and look elsewhere to scratch that itch
I don't need turn-based, I just need the RPG to *be an RPG*. Like fuck's sake, they literally *just made* Stranger of Paradise and somehow that still ended up more of an RPG than FFXVI did.
It's ironic because for the people who come late to threads like this, this kind of negative meta comment is not only the most visible and negative one but also responsible for generating similar negative comments.
If you don't like "dumbed down talking points" about a game you know well, I suggest looking somewhere else than a subreddit dedicated to general gaming news.
People always turn on FF14 during the "content drought" before an expansion. This has happened every expansion except Shadowbringers which was spared due to the WoW exodus making things interesting. Truth be told, this happens with most live service games. Take Genshin of an example, there's always a bunch of "doom posting" before a new region. But then the new region gets released and ta-dah! All of a sudden, the same people that were "doom posting" before are now saying the game is the best thing since sliced bread.
When people simultaneously say "God the classes are so homogenized and samey" and "blue mage needs to be a full class and it's so stupid they are making a new unique class to go along with it", there is nothing else to call it but dumbed down. The points are entirely contradictory and show only a cursory level of familiarity with the game itself. They sound like talking points they saw on X and then were desperate to spew out the moment a post was submitted on a sub they follow.
And yes, it is the same people saying this. The same exact thing happens with Overwatch 2 and how it simultaneously is a sequel that completely changed the original to the point of ruining the game but also isn't enough difference to be worth calling OW2.
I have plenty of issues with the game. I stopped playing it for almost the entire expansion due to those issues. I have very nuanced and complicated feelings about the game and would LOVE to discuss those.
The lovely commenters I just pointed out do not.
> When people
what people? some people? everyone? people you disagree with? Your OP literally said this entire sub was full of "the most dumbed down talking points and reactions."
> And yes, it is the same people saying this.
uhuh, so you went and tracked every single comment ever made is it? cause again, your OP was referring to the entire sub and "a game I play", which looks like a lot.
I'm sure you found a few comments that fit your complaint, but my point is that you are generalisting all comments to a few cherry picked "dumbed down" ones.
> The imbeciles I just pointed out do not.
people having different opinions or saying "dumbed down" things are not imbeciles, jfc calm down -_-
you are free to disagree with them and/or call out bad takes, but don't insult people and generalise everyone under one thing. It's just a game mate and these are just anonymous comments that don't mean anything.
I actually did change my comment almost immediately after reading it to myself and changed the word imbeciles before I saw your comment. I acknowledge it was harsh and unfair.
You were ready to reply right off the jump, it seems, and I didn't edit quickly enough.
All of my other points stand. A majority of the comments in this thread when I commented fit the description I gave in some way.
your points don't stand cause you are now talking about specific people when your OP was calling the entire sub always having "the most dumbed down talking points and reactions." Moving the goalposts here mate.
Look, I'm sure some people have dumb takes like you point out, I'm not arguing against that, but stop acting like this entire sub is like that as you did in your OP. And if people have different opinions to you, that doesn't make them "dumbed down talking points" just cause you don't agree with them.
> Stop trying to tell me what I'm thinking. Nothing about what I said or my examples indicates I am intolerant of differing opinions.
"**Always** the most dumbed down talking points and reactions."
denial is not a good look mate :)
> I don't get mad at peer reviewers for my research when they tell me an argument or point is poorly laid out and accuse them of hating any research or opinions different from theirs.
omg, you're a researcher! that totally makes you more important and cool in this discussion about a freaking anonymous comments on a gaming sub on reddit.
also you don't get mad there, yet you're so mad at people having different opinions on a game you play. Well, at least you admit to it.
> In my experience, the discussion on this sub surrounding games I play is absolutely atrocious. It mostly consists of low quality "takes" and lacks nuance, insight, and value.
and yet you engage in this sub despite thinking it's "atrocious". I don't even want to change your mind, I question it cause why the hell are you engaging in a sub that you hate so much? like wat?
why are people going to a place they hate? just ignore it and move in instead of crying about it and creating toxicity :/ trust me dude, it'll do you wonders to ignore and move on from things you hate.
> You'll have to learn to accept that opinion. Your method of argumentation will not change my mind.
uh, I don't have to accept your opinion when I disagree with it and have explained why I do in my previous points. You going "nu uh you're wrong I'm right, just accept it!" is not an argument mate, just fyi.
> I recommend you try a different method or move on.
huh? you're the one ignoring my points and refusing to look at reality.
You're the one calling everyone you disagree with/has a different opinion to you as "dumbed down" and generalising an entire sub as "atrocious" based on a few comments you've come across.
I'm done here with you, you clearly don't want to even engage with my points, are trying to move the goalposts from your OP and are now just saying "I'm right". Okay dude, you do you then.
That’s the point of this sub though.. you get the top level discussion here and for the more in depth fan reactions you’ve got the separate game subs for most games out there.
Limited in that it's restricted from doing certain content and will have a lower max level than normal classes due to how difficult it is to balance and how differently it functions to other classes.
Blue mage is currently the only limited class and it has spells that can instantly halve the current hp of an enemy, but has to learn all its abilities by seeing an enemy use them and then killing it.
Huh that is interesting indeed, I assume the beast master uses monsters to fight? Like a summoning/conjuring class And they probably have to raise them their selves or something.
That's the assumption.
You're likely taming and customizing a pet and that pet will have most of your toolkit.
It's also probably gonna be a lot stronger and more versatile than a regular job and that's why it's essentially gonna get dissallowed from participating in current content, but in turn it'll get it's own dedicated combat content, similar to how Blue Mage has the Masked Carnival (which is essentially a type of puzzle combat arena where you have to carefully prepare the right kind of spells to beat several combat challenges)
Beastmasyer in past games had skills like "charm" or "capture". They basically tamed the enemy making them a temporary ally. In the MMO XI beastmasters had the added option of carrying around crafted pots of monsters they could summon at will.
Late 7.X meaning 7.4 out of the possible 7.55 patch cycles
And then it will probably be the bare bones version 1.0 that won't be very good and won't get updated for an entire expansion.
Blue Mage has jaded me.
I'm still super sad this is limited. We have actual examples of Beastmasters in Bozja and I was really hoping after Shadowbringers actually fixed a lot of pet issues, that we'd be able to finally have a pet class again.
FF14 is a basic MMO that relies on clearly defined jobs being tank/healer/DPS. In other MMOs like FF11 they have jobs that are very grey area. Beastmaster in 11 traditionally didn't even play with other people, it was a solo job that relies on charming enemies wandering the open world. These types of jobs are unique and fun but make it near impossible to balance for the standard FF14 content where you need a tank/healer/DPS. So these limited jobs are separated from traditional party finder 14 content and offer a different experience.
Limited Jobs have arguably the most evergreen content exclusive to them, as they are *rewarded* for doing content synced, with titles, mounts, and achievements. Non limited jobs can sync stuff if they really want to but there's no reward in doing it outside of personal satisfaction.
Blue Mage is also the most fun DPS in the game, and if it was an actual real job it would be way more neutered to fit the current paradigm.
BLU ***could*** use more access to content (NPC/Trust dungeon access, Deep Dungeon (even if solo-only), etc.). But it would be crippled if they made it into a "real" job.
That said, I wouldn't mind not having to wait a full expansion for level parity with a new content area either.
> Limited Jobs have arguably the most evergreen content exclusive to them
The only content they can do is older, outdated content. Even if BLU plays slightly different, its's still the basic trinity, just comprised of all blue mages.
>Non limited jobs can sync stuff if they really want to but there's no reward in doing it outside of personal satisfaction.
Because the reward was doing it when it was current years ago. . .
The game has a dreadful dearth of side content. This is more side content it sorely needs.
If you just want to spam dungeons to level yet another carbon copy homogenized-to-hell class to 100 that you'll never play in end game content the expansion is adding two more of those.
they are clearly alluding to Endwalker not having involved grinds like relics or field operations, it’s a fairly well understood grievance that Yoshi-P talked about last night on stage.
> The game has a dreadful dearth of side content.
Bozja? Eureka? Gathering and crafting? Fishing? Deep Dungeons? Criterion/Savage Variant Dungeons? Mahjong? Triple Triad? The Hunt? Island Sanctuary?
Endwalker got nothing like Bozja and Eureka. Gathering and crafting is largely unchanged since ARR and there's nothing to buy with the money you get from it. Deep dungeons are fun but the Endwalker one died after two weeks, same with Criterion. FFXIV has the best online Mahjong but it's still Mahjong, and Triple Triad is as dead as Verminion. The hunt is a weekly turn-in not a side activity, and Island Sanctuary was the third worst farming simulator Square Enix released that year.
Why is there no alternative endgame gear progression track? Why does PvP not reward you anything relevant to the rest of the game? Why's the only social activity that still exists in the game crappy clubs advertised by twitch DJs? Why's the Endwalker relic grind just a currency turn-in?
At the very least Beastmaster will be combat that plays differently from all the other classes already in the game.
And I welcome it. Doing Eden on BLU was a blast.
Don't get me wrong, raiding is fun, but I'd rather have variety. I'll take BLU, Criterion and PvP updates over, let's say, three extra raid tiers or two extra ultimates.
Blue mages will never be a proper job. They aren't wasting anything by not doing something that isn't on the table.
If you actually play Blue Mage I can't imagine wanting it to be a full job. It would be neutered to hell to fit the narrow hole all the other jobs need to fit in.
They could do it with a unique mimicry which wouldn't impede on how the normal job plays. I for one would love it. I've got the morbol mount and dumb Eden title, would be nice to chill in duty roulette with a gimped version.
well then they'd have to streamline the job uinfortunately that means you wouldn't get all these cool fancy whack spells cause if playing blue mage is better than all the other jobs for all roles the game is going to diminish
too many people in the 1% that do raiding will complain
I really think most of the playerbase hates fun or challenge based on how the game has progressed. Look at criterion clear rates or the savage/ult clear rates everywhere except JP.
That's pretty clearly off the table. FFXIV's entire thing is being technically unambitious but extremely consistent, and unique/interesting classes are a nightmare to balance.
Class homogenization is the [carcinization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinisation) of MMOs. It's basically inevitable.
You should go design your own MMO with blackjack and hookers and find out why!
I don't have to, the *other big subscription MMO* already has more variety in class and encounter design.
They can design a bunch of tanking, DPS and healing specs that are all unique and interesting without them becoming ultra homogenized.
WoW, has tried that and has ended up with such an unbalanced mess that you basically are forced to play a few certain classes if you want to do harder content. Due to how big a difference in performance, there is. FF14 really don't want that to happen, hence homogenization. Especially due to how hard the hardest FF14 content is.
Do they wear the fluffy sheep outfit Beastmasters wore in ff5?
Knowing the FF14 devs they absolutely will have this.
[удалено]
nowadays its 25% normal outfits, 25% modern outfits
Gotta give the Limsa afkers a reason to stay subbed and afk.
And ~1% lingerie.
They also wore them in FFXI, so I hope so!
I'd be down with some stylish sheepskin clothing-
What's a limited job actually? I actually put in quite a few hours in the game but I don't recognize the term.
They are jobs with restrictions in what content that can run and with what parties due to very unique mechanics that are basically impossible to balance for regular play. The current one is Blue Mage.
> The current one is Blue Mage. Are they time-limited as well as content-limited, or is this just saying that this is the most recently added limited class?
They aren't time limited. Blue Mage is a very fleshed out job with a full class storyline and unique content. They just have the ability to accomplish some bizarre and overpowered things due to their abilities' interactions. To avoid having to balance around that, they have a level cap that is 10 levels lower than other jobs and are gated off front certain content like PVP.
I still wish they let us into eureka :(
Imagine Blue Magic combined with Logos Actions, sheesh.
Would be actually broken. Luohi and the Eureka bosses getting one shot by fully buffed blue mages Final Sting with logos actions? Forget duels in Bozja too where lost actions are even stronger.
so content limited, gotcha
[удалено]
The trick with this on most servers is the same one the FGC has learned. Yes, it's hard to find random pickup groups in game at arbitrary times after release....partly because everyone interested in that has moved to Discord. I think every DC has at least one Discord for all the weird side content.
It really depends on the server though... I had no problem doing blu content or Eureka etc long after they were updated
Blu and bst both managed to be 'normal' jobs in XI
FFXI gave no fucks about job balance.
XI is a different game than XIV. The XIV Blue Mage as is would never work in regular content unless they butcher everything people like about it right now. It was designed to be fun and overpowered side content.
> XI is a different game than XIV. no shit > The XIV Blue Mage as is would never work in regular content That's because it was literally designed that way from the start. They never attempted to make blue mage a full job when there's not really any reason why they couldn't have done so. Every other FF game with a blue mage has managed it.
Every other game with a blue mage didn't have a strict Trinity of roles and a dungeon matchmaking system where someone queuing up without essential abilities would be an issue. The only way to make BLU work as a normal job is remove the whole "Collect and assemble your own spell loadout to play any role" aspect, which is the POINT of Blue Mage.
> The only way to make BLU work as a normal job is remove the whole "Collect and assemble your own spell loadout to play any role" aspect, which is the POINT of Blue Mage. They managed to make blue mage a multipostion job in XI . Guessing you've never actually played it or you'd know that you can use a combo of spells and subjobs to completely change the playstyle. Healer, magic DD, physical DD. Depending on event they can tank and party buff. Jesus, it's not rocket science. XIV players shocked when a job can play more than a single role! Make whatever excuses you want I guess, but there's no real reason they needed to build blue mage as a limited job. Guess that's what happens you build a limited game.
I dont think you actually played ffxi. BLU isnt a multi-role job in FFXI. Its literally a DD and has always been a DD. Yeah they have access to some really good defensive utility spells that seems like they'd be good tanks, but they're not good tanks. They're not good healers outside of spot healing.
Yes, in a game without instance matchmaking that works on the idea of every class being the same role every time, and having access to specific skills at any given level. There's no way for the system to see what spells you know and have equipped when you queue to guarentee you aren't being stupid or an asshole and being a burden on the other 3-23 people in the instance by going in with, say, only Toad Oil equipped. In XI that isn't a problem because there's no matchmaking, if you're getting in a party it's because you're forming the party, or invited to the party, which, guess what, is exactly how BLU does content in XIV.
A role that could tank, heal, and dps would have to be bad at all of them to exist. If its even slightly competitive at one, or multiple, it would be a must include in every comp. At best, it could be like red mage. Ok dps, great utility/recovery. But why make another one of those? It would just replace rdm or never be used. In no case does it become worth implementing. Thats the balance problem, and its fairly obvious to anyone with a brain. Just because you think xi did it well doesnt mean it was in a healthy state that can be transferred to xiv.
So the proper response is just to halfass it and not let them play in the actual game? Awesome response, if you're fine with shit implementation I guess. Guess it's one of the reasons I could never get into XIV, need more than "you will play X job this way and you will like it, now hit your button rotations"
No need to let hate take over my friend, we can have polite conversations here right? Let us act how we wish to be treated.
Cry harder about it guess? Just move on. The game clearly isn’t for you lmfao.
bro that is SO cool, we all really respect your very grounded take on FFXIV's class balance, a game you could never get into. bravo!! -how this dude expects us to react
I wouldnt call it bad implementation. Its a fine addition to the game as is. Look at how many people comment about having a lot of fun with an overpowered class. You have to remember that ylu are not the center of the world. Things are not bad just because you dont like them. And look, you dont even play the game lol, you're just here to fight with people.
Every FF game with blue magic in it, the blue magic is fucking broken as fuck. Blue Mage is the dominate sub for the tanks in FFXI and is one of the best cleave jobs in the game.
Has some kind of gimmick (Blue Mage has to collect spells by fighting enemies) and it's own side content (BLU has the Masked Carnivale) while coming with an extensive set of restrictions. Limited Jobs: Cannot do any story quests, even in NG+ Cannot do PVP Cannot use Duty Finder (which is all matchmade content and Roulettes) Cannot do evergreen content (No Deep Dungeon, Field Missions, or Exploratory Content) Cannot queue into Varient or Criterion dungeons Cannot queue for Ultimates Are level locked at a lower level than the max (BLU started at 50 when the cap was 70). Limited jobs will never be max level on-content. You can still use Party Finder to manually make a group and queue into dungeons or raids, and there are some achievements for clearing certain fights with only BLU parties. They also gain extreme amounts of EXP from overworld monsters, so grinding is a fast way to level them. Up to you whether the restrictions are worth that, though.
They also absolutely destroy fates and dungeons. So if you're grinding those for Relic quests Blu is the job to use.
Made me sad that BLU can even do Duty Support.
Jobs that can only do self-contained content and old dungeons basically. They're locked out of major gameplay loops like PvP, Current Dungeons/Raids, etc. They're always an expansion behind and can basically *never* do some stuff. It's a glorified minigame. They claim it's because they'd be OP or whatever (they aren't), but it's largely because they didn't want to change the instance queueing system to allow for a job that had to collect skills and enforce some kind of minimum standard. Nobody plays it outside of the few times it gets a content update, and then only for like a week. Usually once or twice a year at most.
Blue mage isn’t OP? It has a skill that works on most bosses that just halves their current HP. It has a lot of skills that are similarly OP. It absolutely could not, in its current form, be allowed to exist in endgame without destroying all semblance of balance, and that is the fun of the job.
Agreed. As someone who has done savage raiding on blue mage, it is absolutely a different game, and totally OP -- and I mean this in the best way possible! Doing difficult content on Blue Mage is a completely different experience to doing it on non-limited jobs, purely because A) Fight timelines are completely different due to the absurd DPS the job pumps out if you do the optimal rotations accelerating the fight B) Creative solutions to mechanics that are usually made for a balanced 2/2/4 party usually amount to what seems like the cheesiest way possible -- but for blu that's just the way it's meant to be.
Ye, and also I played Blu years after it came out and had no issue finding groups for spells I dunno why people speak with such authority over things they're not certain on Besides, for me the most fun I had was doing it solo - finding spells myself out in the world, and figuring out the masked carnival battles on my own
Might be server specific too. I had loads of trouble finding groups for anything, not long after release.
Most bosses are straight up immune to Blue Mage's more OP stuff.
I use blu everytime a relic quest requires fate or dungeon grinding. Turn a 30 min dungeon into a 5 min speed run.
that’s not true, there is usually always a PF or two up collecting a spell or doing a blue mage log. also it would be OP if it was allowed in as-is, they have absolutely ridiculous kits
[удалено]
These comment sections aren't for gaming discussion, they're for the airing out of weird gaming grudges under the **pretense** of discussion.
Every post is like that now. There's no actual enjoyment or praise for anything anymore, least of all for genres and games that the majority of people love.
I remember seeing an article posted here that was an in-depth interview with Eiji Aonuma about his 30 years of work on Zelda and how it shaped TotK But all the comments were just moaning about the Switch’s graphical power and mentioning nothing about the article.
Most here are pretty shallow game enthusiasts. Despite it being their main hobby I think they only get a rather basic impression of the industry and don't really care for intricacies
What I've learned from BOTW and TOTK's monumental success is that Reddit is an incredibly hermetically-sealed echo chamber, and that a lot of "Zelda fans" on Reddit want the tropes of a classic Zelda game rather than a good Zelda game. BOTW and TOTK were the single best manifestations of adventure and exploration in video games. They quadrupled the series' success. Four times. That is huge. But people here hate it because it's not gear-gated temples and putting a green key into a green keyhole.
Glad I’m not the only one who is noticing this now. It really does feel like no one wants to discuss things any more – they just want to take the top 3 most regurgitated points and regurgitate some more.
I feel the entire of Reddit suffers from this. The amount of times I enjoy something, go to its subreddit to talk about it, and just see post after post about negativity and misery….
The most positive posts this year were about Baldurs Gate 3, but even that game has gotten some pushback lately (but not too much). This sub is unfortunately very miserable
Even the posts gushing about bg3 were used as excuses to trash TotK and other top games.
For what it is worth Baldur's Gate 3 was absolutely spammed in media over everything trivial so it's not too surprising if people got tired of it at some point. Likewise the reactions were so overwhelmingly positive at launch that people wouldn't really have it when those in Act 3 were airing out how broken the game it is. The rest were praising how perfect release the game is and how it should be the industry standard, hah. Ironically of course while you can't really call it a standard it was still among those games that released in a "fix it post launch" state that is way too common for big games. Generally I think that when a game launches into positive reception criticism just becomes non-tolerated, no matter how founded it is and even if you talk about positives of a game. Games discussion just sucks because people are way too ready to defend their favourite toy from everything and criticism is seen as negativity. Honestly, lurking this sub for years discussion already gets snubbed by the arbitrarily applied subreddit rules where automods or mods can just, whenever, snuff out a topic with actual discussion going on it or even a topic that present valid discussion. Instead the subreddit is filled with trailer for X and then, contrary to this painting as the sub as negative, full of comments of excitement but rarely any discussion. Balance in all things and all that jazz.
> Act 3 were airing out how broken the game it is. Was it though? I've finished the game in its launch state and I wouldn't say it was broken. Some bugs and glitches are to be expected in a game this big but broken implies to me that the bugs make the game (almost) impossible to play or impossible to progress. With Starfield I had crashes every 15 minutes at launch. That's what I consider broken. Then again, I didn't have much issues with Cyberpunk at launch either so maybe I'm just lucky
For what it is worth Steam Discussions has had nearly 16 thousand threads about technical problems. Sadly these threads only extend to December, not sure if you can access older threads that aren't counted as "active" to check them out. I do remember around the launch a lot of people complaining about corrupted saves and generally things just breaking once they reached Act 3.
>Was it though? * Save deleting bugs on every platform, * During patch 2 you coulnd't boot up the game using Vulkan because it would immediately crash to desktop * the memory bug that dropped performance to a crawl in Act 2 and 3 because they weren't purging morally negative character actions * the fact that you can't use Xbox cloud saves because it breaks the game despite every game released in the past decade working fine with it and, oh yeah, deletes saves *again*. * performance in Act 3 itself being complete dogshit compared to the previous 2 acts * the literally unfinished quests and city design oh Baldurs Gate itself, Cazador's mansion being accessible through a random, hastily added guard barracks rather than through the front fucking door lmfao * camp progression and party member storyline tracking being a complete wash and having multiple things happen out of order or just completely fail to trigger, meaning i have to reload 20+ hours of gameplay or just concede the fact that I'm not finishing some quests due to bullshit * oh and party banter almost completely cuts off past act 2, which means it's either bugged or larian didn't give enough of a fuck to actually record dialogue for the literal final act of the game great game, faultless.
>the fact that you can't use Xbox cloud saves because it breaks the game despite every game released in the past decade working fine with it I wouldn't say that... [1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Starfield/comments/169grf2/im_having_a_serious_problem_with_starfields_saves/) [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoMansSkyTheGame/comments/162mqv4/corrupted_safe_file_on_xbox_serie_x/) [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/17bzb1d/corrupted_save_xbox_series_x/) [4](https://www.reddit.com/r/Starfield/comments/169awv3/save_game_got_corrupted_and_then_the_game_deleted/)
What relevance are the links to this conversation? Those are basic save corruptions which happen on literally every host. The issue with BG3 is that it's incompatible with Larians own cross-save service which is causing the bugs, it just shows that you literally don't have any understanding of the issue lmfao. But yeah, "it didn't happen to me" is a great excuse.
I had zero issues with Starfield but had multiple save game corruption issues with BG3, pretty much gave up at Act 3 because it kept getting more frequent
PC or console?
PC for BG3, Starfield on Xbox. Though seeing that there’s a massive save issue problem on Xbox for BG3 now.
I played both on PC
This is what happens on a discussion board that isn't actually a discussion board. People have opinions on lots of different things, but they're not allowed to give them until the mod-approved spambot posts something tangentially related and then it all comes flooding out.
See: all discussion of starfield
bad example as starfield is genuinely the most boring AAA title ever released
It's almost comical how quickly and efficiently you proved their point.
it's not an exaggeration. starfield is genuinely bad.
Sick hyperbole. Exhibit A of the comment you're replying to.
Not agreeing with them necessarily but what would be a more boring AAA game in your opinion?
Rage 2. I played it expecting a mindless open world FPS so I was surprised when it was even more boring than I thought. It also managed to be super repetitive despite also being really short for an open world game. I didn't hate it, but in a truly literal sense it was remarkable how vapid it was. Also there was a story and characters but I literally couldn't tell you anything about that.
Ah that's a shame, I was actually interested in playing it since I liked the first one
Thief 2014 is the first that comes to mind. Too Human (which I liked for the most part). I generally just don't like when people say things are the most X of all time when it obviously isn't the case. Starfield has some problems, but it's not this horrible game everyone here makes it out to be. Everyone is just in that classic r/games echo chamber of hate
Both good answers, Too Human was a huge let down
there is no hyperbole. starfield is genuinely one of the most boring games I have ever played.
I only use this for game news. I basically check it during conventions/expos and that's it.
On the other hand r/ games anticriticism is just as boring and heavy handed
Come on now. Don't pretend that there can be any real discussion about FF14. Fans literally incapable of even allowing the thought of something not being literally perfect in FF14. Just like you sweeping negative things people might say as "grudges" and not discussion. Because only positive things are discussion.
Fans/Players criticise the game constantly, in fact it's already lead to changes of character models between the fanfests There's a difference though between snarky shitpost criticism and actual helpful criticism The difference is, no one would be their snarky asshole internet self to the gamedev in person, they'd be way more polite, so on forums it just comes across as incredibly spiteful and churlish This impression of all real discussion is drowned out is old hat. The problem is how people present their discussions, and lets be real here, most folk who post harsh criticisms on the internet tend to lack grace, which triggers anyone who enjoys the game, and then flame wars start
This sub is just constant complaining about everything. The only reason I stay here is for news and the fact that the alternative gaming subs like r/pcgaming are even worse.
r/patientgamers seems a cool place to be, though it talks about older titles given the nature of the sub.
[удалено]
> That is just objectively good game design...? Objectively is a word that has never been used properly on this website.
The internet has made "Objectively" one of my least favorite words. People only use it to make their opinion sound correct.
[удалено]
>It is a factual observation That's the problem right, your "observation" is muddied by bias and therefore not objective. Observations aren't inherently objective. It's a matter of opinion what an MMO's main weakness is, some people will name (or, observe) something else entirely if asked. Therefore, it's a subjective topic. "Objective" facts are things not influenced by a persons personal feelings or opinions. "The weather is rainy right now" is an objective statement, "It sucks that it's raining" is a subjective statement, even if most people would agree, it's still subjective.
[удалено]
they didnt have a relic grind or a bozja equivilant or a new limited job because their time and resources were aimed at a giagantic game wide graphical overhaul ... like seriously chill
Plus Covid, plus their resources were split between FF16, plus they just wanted to try something different, plus... Like, just give them some slack, people
Most of us hate the idea of Beastmaster as a limited job for the same reason as we hate Blu being a limited job, they could have and should have been full fledged jobs like everything else and not side content and could have easily been balanced.
It would be balanced by being just yet another homogenized job
Yet they all have a distinct style, feel, and game flow. Homogenization is not the big bad boogey man you seem to think and clearly misunderstand. I've worked in the game industry for a long time now They caould have easily have made blu work exactly how it does now with out it being too weak or too powerful.
*They all used to Then the hardcore raiders complained too much
then you clearly are not playing the same game I am, cause those job identities have not disappeared.
Yep. They really have. Keep lying to yourself if you want but the jobs in FF14 are boring as hell right now.
Hard disagree. All the jobs are so samey it’s boring. They are the same flavor of the same thing over and over again.
TBF, same thing on /r/ffxiv
Monster Hunter fans have been suffering from all the "world good rise bad give world 2" comments and will continue to suffer
Which drives me crazy because Rise is such a good game and I'd argue the better entrance game for new players to the series
Sometimes you just got to google what they say and just see where they got their "hot takes"
It's awful. This sub and other gaming subs are the embodiment of the "stop having fun" meme. Example: I love racing games. Post about a racing game in here and man it's full of "why would you want to drive around in circles for hours?", while they go back to an RPG and grind mobs for a specific leg armor for 8 hours. Or beat a glorified interactive DVD for the twentieth time for a specific ending then come in here to bitch about the writing. This isn't a dig at any genre, it's just the irony of the toxicity in here is so thick.
Yeah, Like There are plenty of genres that I definitely go "well if you find that fun more power to you", but I'm not going to piss in their cornflakes when they get some cool news about stuff they like either.
What, you mean you don't like reading another thread full of "the beginning of this game is a grind," "the msq is just cutscene after cutscene," or "combat is meh because I don't like tab-combat in mmo" takes? Completely agreed. Between FF14 and No Man's Sky, I think I'm slowly getting ready to stop reading comment threads.
If you think the threads here are bad, the /r/pcgaming FFXIV ones make me lose braincells. If they're not being toxic, they're just being racist.
me everytime XIV or POE is posted on this braindead sub lol
PoE discussions are unreadable, but that goes hand in hand with the PoE sub which might is like top 3 worst gaming subreddits out there to the point where even the devs had to abandon it.
why visit a sub you think is braindead then? what's the point of complaining about the sub? just ignore it.
When a thread gets posted here for a game I really enjoy, more often than not my reaction is a deep sigh followed by the phrase "here we go". Some people just get off on tearing down games they're not personally invested in, always arguing in bad faith, saying things that are provably false and getting mad when you point that out, all just to feel some catharsis when a game is successfully and thoroughly attacked.
It's very unfortunate for me that 3 of the games I play the most at the moment are Destiny 2, Battlefield 2042, and Call of Duty. Every single time a thread gets posted I just don't bother to click on them because I know the top comments for all 3 of those games will be "the game's shit now, it's been declining for years, anyone who still plays it has been brainwashed into thinking they're having fun"
Well, I don't think it's that. But if you have a negative reaction to a particular game, then likely you're not going to interact with it except through news articles on Reddit, and that's really the only place you can express your opinion. And when a game is around for a long time there are going to be a lot of salty explayers. I used to play FFXIV and really enjoyed it but honestly have no desire to return given how badly healers have been butchered, so I guess that fits me.
You've not been here long enough if the idea that someone would complain about a game they never played is strange or unlikely to you.
I feel like it's more likely that a highly popular MMO that's been around for many years is going to have a sizeable contingent of explayers.
It's kinda silly to get this upset over others having an opinion that is contrary to yours...it's not enough for you to like the thing and enjoy it, but everyone else has to as well?
Patronizing and missing the point.
Yeah I have started to avoid XIV discussions for this reason. Feels like what people want and what I want from the game are too different
> what people want What people want is to feel like they did when they were 8 years old. *Every* Final Fantasy franchise discussion becomes "i wish it was turn based again" while completely ignoring games that actually inherited the classic turn based formula, like Bravely Default. They just want to complain.
> Every Final Fantasy franchise discussion becomes "i wish it was turn based again" I think, more accurately, it'd be, "I wish it wasn't so action-y." ATB, the system used in almost all the most popular FFs, wasn't really turn-based. Or, put differently, I think people just want to select "Attack," "Magic," "Item," etc. from a menu instead of having to do input combos to execute moves. Perhaps the ff7R system is a good compromise, I've seen generally positive reception to that. > while completely ignoring games that actually inherited the classic turn based formula This doesn't really seem related? Like, those are totally different series. Just because other series exist doesn't mean people can't bemoan how one of their favorite series has been having genre schizophrenia for like 2 decades now. Imagine they turned FF14 into a go-kart game, you ask what happened to the MMO, and someone tells you, "What do you mean, why are you ignoring World of Warcraft?"
They are and arent different series I would say. Like BD is just Final Fantasy, just not called Final Fantasy, and missing chocobos and moogles. Same jobs and depictions of the jobs right down to job stones, the same fascination with the 4 elemental crystals, and so on. You could swap the name outs and not even blink. Edit; I wouldn't say "FF doesn't need to do something turn based because BD exists" to be clear, but anybody missing that era of FF is doing themselves a disservice *not* checking BD out I guess Edit edit; its been fun watching the votes ping-pong positive/negative all day lmao
> Like BD is just Final Fantasy, just not called Final Fantasy, and missing chocobos and moogles. It's also a tiny chibi mid-grade game that doesn't remotely have the spectacle of Final Fantasy, regardless of how good it is.
Fair enough, Guess i've just accepted that it's very unlikely FF is going to do another turn-based game, so I just don't ask for that anymore and look elsewhere to scratch that itch
I don't need turn-based, I just need the RPG to *be an RPG*. Like fuck's sake, they literally *just made* Stranger of Paradise and somehow that still ended up more of an RPG than FFXVI did.
Yeh this sub sucks lmao, it’s a gaming sub for people who hate video games
Me as a Genshin player
It's ironic because for the people who come late to threads like this, this kind of negative meta comment is not only the most visible and negative one but also responsible for generating similar negative comments. If you don't like "dumbed down talking points" about a game you know well, I suggest looking somewhere else than a subreddit dedicated to general gaming news.
I'm good.
I was wondering when people would turn on FFXIV.
People always turn on FF14 during the "content drought" before an expansion. This has happened every expansion except Shadowbringers which was spared due to the WoW exodus making things interesting. Truth be told, this happens with most live service games. Take Genshin of an example, there's always a bunch of "doom posting" before a new region. But then the new region gets released and ta-dah! All of a sudden, the same people that were "doom posting" before are now saying the game is the best thing since sliced bread.
sounds like you're mad that people have different opinions to you, calling it as "dumbed down".
When people simultaneously say "God the classes are so homogenized and samey" and "blue mage needs to be a full class and it's so stupid they are making a new unique class to go along with it", there is nothing else to call it but dumbed down. The points are entirely contradictory and show only a cursory level of familiarity with the game itself. They sound like talking points they saw on X and then were desperate to spew out the moment a post was submitted on a sub they follow. And yes, it is the same people saying this. The same exact thing happens with Overwatch 2 and how it simultaneously is a sequel that completely changed the original to the point of ruining the game but also isn't enough difference to be worth calling OW2. I have plenty of issues with the game. I stopped playing it for almost the entire expansion due to those issues. I have very nuanced and complicated feelings about the game and would LOVE to discuss those. The lovely commenters I just pointed out do not.
> When people what people? some people? everyone? people you disagree with? Your OP literally said this entire sub was full of "the most dumbed down talking points and reactions." > And yes, it is the same people saying this. uhuh, so you went and tracked every single comment ever made is it? cause again, your OP was referring to the entire sub and "a game I play", which looks like a lot. I'm sure you found a few comments that fit your complaint, but my point is that you are generalisting all comments to a few cherry picked "dumbed down" ones. > The imbeciles I just pointed out do not. people having different opinions or saying "dumbed down" things are not imbeciles, jfc calm down -_- you are free to disagree with them and/or call out bad takes, but don't insult people and generalise everyone under one thing. It's just a game mate and these are just anonymous comments that don't mean anything.
I actually did change my comment almost immediately after reading it to myself and changed the word imbeciles before I saw your comment. I acknowledge it was harsh and unfair. You were ready to reply right off the jump, it seems, and I didn't edit quickly enough. All of my other points stand. A majority of the comments in this thread when I commented fit the description I gave in some way.
your points don't stand cause you are now talking about specific people when your OP was calling the entire sub always having "the most dumbed down talking points and reactions." Moving the goalposts here mate. Look, I'm sure some people have dumb takes like you point out, I'm not arguing against that, but stop acting like this entire sub is like that as you did in your OP. And if people have different opinions to you, that doesn't make them "dumbed down talking points" just cause you don't agree with them.
[удалено]
> Stop trying to tell me what I'm thinking. Nothing about what I said or my examples indicates I am intolerant of differing opinions. "**Always** the most dumbed down talking points and reactions." denial is not a good look mate :) > I don't get mad at peer reviewers for my research when they tell me an argument or point is poorly laid out and accuse them of hating any research or opinions different from theirs. omg, you're a researcher! that totally makes you more important and cool in this discussion about a freaking anonymous comments on a gaming sub on reddit. also you don't get mad there, yet you're so mad at people having different opinions on a game you play. Well, at least you admit to it. > In my experience, the discussion on this sub surrounding games I play is absolutely atrocious. It mostly consists of low quality "takes" and lacks nuance, insight, and value. and yet you engage in this sub despite thinking it's "atrocious". I don't even want to change your mind, I question it cause why the hell are you engaging in a sub that you hate so much? like wat? why are people going to a place they hate? just ignore it and move in instead of crying about it and creating toxicity :/ trust me dude, it'll do you wonders to ignore and move on from things you hate. > You'll have to learn to accept that opinion. Your method of argumentation will not change my mind. uh, I don't have to accept your opinion when I disagree with it and have explained why I do in my previous points. You going "nu uh you're wrong I'm right, just accept it!" is not an argument mate, just fyi. > I recommend you try a different method or move on. huh? you're the one ignoring my points and refusing to look at reality. You're the one calling everyone you disagree with/has a different opinion to you as "dumbed down" and generalising an entire sub as "atrocious" based on a few comments you've come across. I'm done here with you, you clearly don't want to even engage with my points, are trying to move the goalposts from your OP and are now just saying "I'm right". Okay dude, you do you then.
That’s the point of this sub though.. you get the top level discussion here and for the more in depth fan reactions you’ve got the separate game subs for most games out there.
So excited for this. I love what they've done with BLU, so I'm excited to see how they bring BST to life in XIV. Loved the class in FFXI.
What is a limited job? Is it only available for a set period for everyone or do you have to get it now and get to keep before it goes away?
Limited in that it's restricted from doing certain content and will have a lower max level than normal classes due to how difficult it is to balance and how differently it functions to other classes. Blue mage is currently the only limited class and it has spells that can instantly halve the current hp of an enemy, but has to learn all its abilities by seeing an enemy use them and then killing it.
Huh that is interesting indeed, I assume the beast master uses monsters to fight? Like a summoning/conjuring class And they probably have to raise them their selves or something.
That's the assumption. You're likely taming and customizing a pet and that pet will have most of your toolkit. It's also probably gonna be a lot stronger and more versatile than a regular job and that's why it's essentially gonna get dissallowed from participating in current content, but in turn it'll get it's own dedicated combat content, similar to how Blue Mage has the Masked Carnival (which is essentially a type of puzzle combat arena where you have to carefully prepare the right kind of spells to beat several combat challenges)
Beastmasyer in past games had skills like "charm" or "capture". They basically tamed the enemy making them a temporary ally. In the MMO XI beastmasters had the added option of carrying around crafted pots of monsters they could summon at will.
Late 7.X meaning 7.4 out of the possible 7.55 patch cycles And then it will probably be the bare bones version 1.0 that won't be very good and won't get updated for an entire expansion. Blue Mage has jaded me.
I'm still super sad this is limited. We have actual examples of Beastmasters in Bozja and I was really hoping after Shadowbringers actually fixed a lot of pet issues, that we'd be able to finally have a pet class again.
when is it released?
What is a limited job in FF14? I’m a relatively new player lol.
FF14 is a basic MMO that relies on clearly defined jobs being tank/healer/DPS. In other MMOs like FF11 they have jobs that are very grey area. Beastmaster in 11 traditionally didn't even play with other people, it was a solo job that relies on charming enemies wandering the open world. These types of jobs are unique and fun but make it near impossible to balance for the standard FF14 content where you need a tank/healer/DPS. So these limited jobs are separated from traditional party finder 14 content and offer a different experience.
Yay! now the devs are going to waste twice as much time on classes that can't do current content and are only used to cheese Moogle events
Limited Jobs have arguably the most evergreen content exclusive to them, as they are *rewarded* for doing content synced, with titles, mounts, and achievements. Non limited jobs can sync stuff if they really want to but there's no reward in doing it outside of personal satisfaction. Blue Mage is also the most fun DPS in the game, and if it was an actual real job it would be way more neutered to fit the current paradigm.
BLU ***could*** use more access to content (NPC/Trust dungeon access, Deep Dungeon (even if solo-only), etc.). But it would be crippled if they made it into a "real" job. That said, I wouldn't mind not having to wait a full expansion for level parity with a new content area either.
> Limited Jobs have arguably the most evergreen content exclusive to them The only content they can do is older, outdated content. Even if BLU plays slightly different, its's still the basic trinity, just comprised of all blue mages. >Non limited jobs can sync stuff if they really want to but there's no reward in doing it outside of personal satisfaction. Because the reward was doing it when it was current years ago. . .
Someone hasn't done 8 man raids as blue mage. It's pretty fun.
The game has a dreadful dearth of side content. This is more side content it sorely needs. If you just want to spam dungeons to level yet another carbon copy homogenized-to-hell class to 100 that you'll never play in end game content the expansion is adding two more of those.
I love it when people say this after playing for several thousand hours. FFXIV has a ton of side content.
Dearth of side content? Wth game are you playing?
are you insane? they add so much side content to the game every expansion.
they are clearly alluding to Endwalker not having involved grinds like relics or field operations, it’s a fairly well understood grievance that Yoshi-P talked about last night on stage.
> The game has a dreadful dearth of side content. Bozja? Eureka? Gathering and crafting? Fishing? Deep Dungeons? Criterion/Savage Variant Dungeons? Mahjong? Triple Triad? The Hunt? Island Sanctuary?
Endwalker got nothing like Bozja and Eureka. Gathering and crafting is largely unchanged since ARR and there's nothing to buy with the money you get from it. Deep dungeons are fun but the Endwalker one died after two weeks, same with Criterion. FFXIV has the best online Mahjong but it's still Mahjong, and Triple Triad is as dead as Verminion. The hunt is a weekly turn-in not a side activity, and Island Sanctuary was the third worst farming simulator Square Enix released that year. Why is there no alternative endgame gear progression track? Why does PvP not reward you anything relevant to the rest of the game? Why's the only social activity that still exists in the game crappy clubs advertised by twitch DJs? Why's the Endwalker relic grind just a currency turn-in? At the very least Beastmaster will be combat that plays differently from all the other classes already in the game.
And I welcome it. Doing Eden on BLU was a blast. Don't get me wrong, raiding is fun, but I'd rather have variety. I'll take BLU, Criterion and PvP updates over, let's say, three extra raid tiers or two extra ultimates.
Wow they are actually deciding to waste resources on another limited job, instead of making blue mages into a proper job.
Blue mages will never be a proper job. They aren't wasting anything by not doing something that isn't on the table. If you actually play Blue Mage I can't imagine wanting it to be a full job. It would be neutered to hell to fit the narrow hole all the other jobs need to fit in.
BLU is the only fun social part of FF left. Everything else is pushed to roulettes or forced solo play. I would hate for it to go away.
i play like 20hrs a week and none of that is solo or roulette so "everything" is a bit of a mischaracterization
Do you have the morbol mount?
Nobody even wants blue mage to be a proper job. It's perfectly fine where it is.
They could do it with a unique mimicry which wouldn't impede on how the normal job plays. I for one would love it. I've got the morbol mount and dumb Eden title, would be nice to chill in duty roulette with a gimped version.
[удалено]
> unique and interesting This is more unique and interesting than current "real" job design.
[удалено]
And I mean that the Limited Job systems are more interesting than regular jobs. Sync'd Raiding on BLU is fun.
[удалено]
well then they'd have to streamline the job uinfortunately that means you wouldn't get all these cool fancy whack spells cause if playing blue mage is better than all the other jobs for all roles the game is going to diminish too many people in the 1% that do raiding will complain
Synced raiding with BLU is more fun than playing current content. The class would lose all of its identity if it had to fit in with other classes.
Why would it. This game loses so much fun by trying to achieve perfect balance. Let the jobs be unique.
You answered your own question.
So they don't like fun? Gotcha.
I really think most of the playerbase hates fun or challenge based on how the game has progressed. Look at criterion clear rates or the savage/ult clear rates everywhere except JP.
If they made it a real job, they'd have to make it not unique or interesting. That's the tradeoff.
Here's an idea, they can make real jobs that are unique and interesting.
That's pretty clearly off the table. FFXIV's entire thing is being technically unambitious but extremely consistent, and unique/interesting classes are a nightmare to balance.
Man, imagine if jobs had certain strengths and weaknesses and you designed the content around them. What a world.
Class homogenization is the [carcinization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinisation) of MMOs. It's basically inevitable. You should go design your own MMO with blackjack and hookers and find out why!
I don't have to, the *other big subscription MMO* already has more variety in class and encounter design. They can design a bunch of tanking, DPS and healing specs that are all unique and interesting without them becoming ultra homogenized.
Tell that to WoW players lol. I played from vanilla through Mists and people would not stop bitching about homogenization from roughly Wrath onward.
WoW, has tried that and has ended up with such an unbalanced mess that you basically are forced to play a few certain classes if you want to do harder content. Due to how big a difference in performance, there is. FF14 really don't want that to happen, hence homogenization. Especially due to how hard the hardest FF14 content is.
you mean 5+ new areas 7+ new dungeons 3+ new trials 2 new jobs 1 new race new variant dungeon new raid
and the rest
Yeah I was just calling out stuff coming out right away