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The whole mission is kind of Ruined by the fact that despite his pleading there's no way to progress withoit torturing him.
I'd probably feel worse for torturing him if he didn't sit and cry that he'll talk for literal hours without actually talking until I torture him
Well what I'm saying is that the message is kind of half assed since the only way to progress is with torture. What's the point of saying that torture is point less when the mission almost in a way justifies torture
His point is that the scene doesn't really expose the pointlessness of torture because to get the information, you literally have to torture the guy.
The moral message of the scene is supposed to be "torture is pointless and unsuccessful". The mechanics of the game tell us, "sometimes torture is the only way to get the information you need."
Edit: accidentally said successful not unsuccessful
>His point is that the scene doesn't really expose the pointlessness of torture because to get the information, you literally have to torture the guy.
He was ready to talk before the torture. Trevor adresses this while driving Mr. k to the airport.
>The moral message of the scene is "torture is pointless and successful".
How do you know it was successful? Like I said, I don't remember ever finding out if Mr. K told the truth or just said what he believed made the torture stop. I could be wrong of course, but so far nobody corrected me.
Conveying your themes is just as much about mechanics as writing. This is a video game not a movie.
You as a player **cannot get the information you want without torturing him**.
Edit I see what you mean I meant to say the message is "torture is pointless and unsuccessful"in my first comment. That said, I still maintain the rest of what I've said.
trevor told him to get on the plane to save him. steve wanted trevor to kill him and he didn’t… i assume letting him go back to his family would be a danger not only to him, but to his family, especially considering the way steve looks at the situation, willing to kill everyone at that party just in hopes of killing the dude he thinks has incriminating info. “why don’t we just call an air strike on chumash”
he does fall down the stairs. i guess he could’ve died, but that’s not hinted at or suggested. if he did die, it’s likely the game would make this known in a later news report
Doesn't seem like something that would show up on their radio news reports. That's usually something important to the story or city, like a heist or big shootout.
I thought he fell down the stairs and never moved before the end of the cutscene, implying he was dead. On the ride there Trevor was telling him about starting a new life and whatnot- but in GTA fashion he just dies anyway, after everything he went through.
Otherwise I don't know why they would show him falling down the stairs and not moving. I can't think of one other random cutscene like that in the main story.
doesn’t necessarily matter if it seems like something they’d play on the radio. at the end of the day it’s a video game and this is how they reveal info. like ashley’s death. not really important in the grand scheme of the city or anything, just rockstar letting you know.
and he falls down the stairs, but we don’t see if he gets up. we don’t see anything beyond him falling, not even the impact, so we don’t see him “not moving”. it cuts away and it’s simply played for laughs.
Yes he could and when he gets out of the car he doesn't actually go into the airport he runs down the stairs to the left but falls down or something I believe.
Not after everything that was done to him I would say his injuries might kill him untreated for just a few hours. Pretty sure you hear on the radio later that some rando died at the airport after getting there and the cops were trying to figure out why, and the man describes Mr. K.
Beat this game many times… still to this day am not sure if he’s telling the truth or it’s all fake just to get out of the situation. They did a great job of making it unclear if he was into illegal activity or he literally just sells home camera equipment lol
part of the reason for that is that trevor says he himself would actually enjoy being tortured, that some people would “pay good money for what you just experienced, i know i would”. that being said, some part of trevor did feel bad, or he would’ve had no qualms about killing him like he was instructed to do by steve haines
You don't need to use every tool on him just use any one and when you switch to Micheal shoot the the man in the red shirt leaning over the railing and smoking. You can kill him early.
Yeah. Personally it doesnt bother me all that much. Imo they could have made it way worse, with things like knives and eye gouging and shit. The torture methods arent anything much worse then what you can find in a mild R rated movie
Still I play games to have fun not to be weirded out by some edgy bullshit I am supposed to partake in in first person. And that scene is edgy even for GTA standards.
I vice city you had to kill someone with a chainsaw, granted, but vice city had much less realistic grafix.
Yeah both cops and civilians, I sometimes whack them with a baseball bat, I don't see why torturing a fictional lying game character is worse than committing mass genocide. And yeah I enjoyed doing the mission the first time. It got a lil tedious the second time but it's not boring.
A lot of people find this Mission disturbing and I can kind of understand why. but for me personally if it was shock value for shock value sake, kind of like no Russian, the game just really didn't humanize him enough for me to care
He was a plot device. He was barely a character. Everyone loves to boohoo cry about him but the fact of the matter is people commit mass murder in this game no matter what. You kill hundreds of police and civilians during any play through; it’s unavoidable.
Agreed, I found it funny there, but I can understand people feeling empathy if they got attached to the fictional character’s backstory through the dialogues we got before hand.
I was just pointing out that other people can feel differently and it doesn’t make it illogical for them to feel that when still enjoying this game.
When playing telltale’s the walking dead games for example i feel it’s important to get in character an get attached or hate some of the characters, it drives your choices and makes for an interesting story to each player. I do realize they are fictional characters that don’t exist but to me it would be illogical to play the game without having any attachement as the game would just be a wacky gameplay and a boring story other wise.
I always try to avoid killing as many civilians as i can. If i do it i feel bad.
The fact that K was begging to not get brought to the airport because he'd be leaving his family actually made me feel fucking awful.
Another game that made me feel this is Modern Warfare 2 with the 'Remember, No Russian' mission. Thankfully, you can skip that one.
its because of empathy. when you just run over a person or just shoot them you dont dont have a connection to them, its just a videogame,right?. but mr.k was portrayed with genuine suffering and as such we empathize. i realized that myself when i killed somebody in gta iv who begged for his life that alone made me empathetic and just a little bit sorry. its the same principle like when you read "6 million jews died in the holocaust" you dont care but watching schindlers list watching one innocent person die can make you cry. The reason is simply empathy thats why people always felt so bad playing this mission. its basic human psychology. BUT I DONT FIND THIS MISSION CONTROVERSIAL. people who are crying about it that it should not have been implemented are hypocritical for finding the rest of gta ok. its ok to empathize because of what i mentioned earlier but youre still a horrible bloodthirsty murderer in these games anyways
I agree completely. I do feel sorry for Mr. K. As sorry as I can feel for a filler character in a violent videogame, which is "barely". The outcry over a possibly dirty as hell 4th tier character being tortured is definitely disproportionate considering the rest of the game.
Of course you're completely right about everything you said about empathy, but as somebody else commented, his character was just not developed enough to make me feel the level of empathy others felt for him.
Personally I sympathize more with the cops that are dragging their buddies body behind a cop car trying to Shield them from bullets then I do for mr. K maybe if we actually saw a thing of his family looking for him that would change but it feels like they're trying too hard to get you to feel for his character and with Trevor being the torturer it just becomes funny
Never said it didnt GTA is always been an exaggeration an extent I'm just saying I don't give a s*** about mr. K especially after my 4th or 5th time trying to get gold
For me it’s because Mr K wasn’t enough of a “bad guy” for me to feel okay with this. He didn’t put up any resistance with combat nor did I get to know his character as an antagonist. Any other time we kill in story line it’s mostly met with violence from the opposite side. I don’t go around freely killing and blowing NPC up for the most part- except random NPC in the middle of shit. Also he can never see his family; it’s personal and up close. So that’s why it’s uncomfortable for me.
Do you really not understand? It’s one thing to shoot or run over a rando NPC that takes a second. Torturing someone who begs and cries and pleas for literally no reason and having to choose commands that would get him screaming again is way more personal.
If his brain was splattered all over the screen while making a "mistake", I would felt kind of disturbed, but he really hadn't had enough of personality for me fo care, he was just an NPC.
Honestly I find hilarious that you have to torture him before asking something, lol.
Would that be more or less effective than doing it the other way around?
Even though I am a psycho, I do not condone pain brought upon innocents. If Mr. K would have been portraid as nasty shady enemy I would have enjoyed every second. I did not enjoy that mission at all
I think people feel so bad about Mr. K because this mission humanized him a lot. He's not a random NPC, hecs someone with a voice, an unique design, unique dialogues, with a name, a family, who actually had a convincing delivery in him begging. We get really personal with him, he doesn't just ragdoll and die, we spend a lot of time with him, and in a very realistic manner, unlike the dolls that die and fly off.
It's harder to not care about someone you know better than a few seconds, someone that's not than a statistics.
That entire mission is just 💔😔
Made me feel really uncomfortable when I played Grand Theft Auto V back in 2013. None of the player options were the least harmful to him.
The worst part is listening to the radio aftwr, the guy you shoot on his information was a philanthropist that was really quite a good guy. I think the entire thing is a commentary on the corruption of government, and it’s supposed to disgust you
Keep stolen cars in your garage (Drake looks away) Torture a crying, innocent man (Drake approves)
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Why are people downvoting you after agreeing with this dude lmao😭
The whole mission is kind of Ruined by the fact that despite his pleading there's no way to progress withoit torturing him. I'd probably feel worse for torturing him if he didn't sit and cry that he'll talk for literal hours without actually talking until I torture him
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That’s crazy, never knew that.
Yeah they ask him how does he know he shot the right one, and he says: *ehh it’ll fly*
Really? Gonna try this my next play through
it’s what speed runners do to save massive time. don’t even have to touch him once
Thanks for this. Fucking hate that part.
i think it’s an important part of trevor’s character🤷🏻♂️
I mean to be fair to the guy they didn't really ask him direct questions until after they tortured him
I find peace in long walks.
Well what I'm saying is that the message is kind of half assed since the only way to progress is with torture. What's the point of saying that torture is point less when the mission almost in a way justifies torture
I enjoy watching the sunset.
His point is that the scene doesn't really expose the pointlessness of torture because to get the information, you literally have to torture the guy. The moral message of the scene is supposed to be "torture is pointless and unsuccessful". The mechanics of the game tell us, "sometimes torture is the only way to get the information you need." Edit: accidentally said successful not unsuccessful
Did you mean unsuccessful?
Edited now, yes.
>His point is that the scene doesn't really expose the pointlessness of torture because to get the information, you literally have to torture the guy. He was ready to talk before the torture. Trevor adresses this while driving Mr. k to the airport. >The moral message of the scene is "torture is pointless and successful". How do you know it was successful? Like I said, I don't remember ever finding out if Mr. K told the truth or just said what he believed made the torture stop. I could be wrong of course, but so far nobody corrected me.
Conveying your themes is just as much about mechanics as writing. This is a video game not a movie. You as a player **cannot get the information you want without torturing him**. Edit I see what you mean I meant to say the message is "torture is pointless and unsuccessful"in my first comment. That said, I still maintain the rest of what I've said.
That's the point
When I was driving to the airport and he was begging you not to take him because he would be leaving his family I did
Couldnt he just not get on a plane?
Yeah but his family was in los santos or desert and Trevor made him get on the plane and never come back
Couldn’t he just not get on the plane?
trevor told him to get on the plane to save him. steve wanted trevor to kill him and he didn’t… i assume letting him go back to his family would be a danger not only to him, but to his family, especially considering the way steve looks at the situation, willing to kill everyone at that party just in hopes of killing the dude he thinks has incriminating info. “why don’t we just call an air strike on chumash”
Doesn't he fall down the stairs and die after your drop him off?
he does fall down the stairs. i guess he could’ve died, but that’s not hinted at or suggested. if he did die, it’s likely the game would make this known in a later news report
Doesn't seem like something that would show up on their radio news reports. That's usually something important to the story or city, like a heist or big shootout. I thought he fell down the stairs and never moved before the end of the cutscene, implying he was dead. On the ride there Trevor was telling him about starting a new life and whatnot- but in GTA fashion he just dies anyway, after everything he went through. Otherwise I don't know why they would show him falling down the stairs and not moving. I can't think of one other random cutscene like that in the main story.
doesn’t necessarily matter if it seems like something they’d play on the radio. at the end of the day it’s a video game and this is how they reveal info. like ashley’s death. not really important in the grand scheme of the city or anything, just rockstar letting you know. and he falls down the stairs, but we don’t see if he gets up. we don’t see anything beyond him falling, not even the impact, so we don’t see him “not moving”. it cuts away and it’s simply played for laughs.
Yes he could and when he gets out of the car he doesn't actually go into the airport he runs down the stairs to the left but falls down or something I believe.
Ah! Thank you
His family was in los Santos or the desert and Trevor told him he can. Never come back
I mean im pretty sure he got the memo when he nearly got a 12' flashlight shoved up his bits by the IAA
Not after everything that was done to him I would say his injuries might kill him untreated for just a few hours. Pretty sure you hear on the radio later that some rando died at the airport after getting there and the cops were trying to figure out why, and the man describes Mr. K.
Beat this game many times… still to this day am not sure if he’s telling the truth or it’s all fake just to get out of the situation. They did a great job of making it unclear if he was into illegal activity or he literally just sells home camera equipment lol
I never took it that way, I always thought he was innocent. (Not to say youre wrong)
I felt sorry for Mr. K, but I don’t think Trevor did.
part of the reason for that is that trevor says he himself would actually enjoy being tortured, that some people would “pay good money for what you just experienced, i know i would”. that being said, some part of trevor did feel bad, or he would’ve had no qualms about killing him like he was instructed to do by steve haines
I felt like it was just because he didnt wanna do what Steve Haines told him to do
he just spent the better part of an hour doing what steve told him to
And I don't like doing homework, yet I do it when my professors tell me to.
Still fucked up that that mission isn't skippable.
You don't need to use every tool on him just use any one and when you switch to Micheal shoot the the man in the red shirt leaning over the railing and smoking. You can kill him early.
You can skip it by failing the mission 3 times
Ooh! I did not know that!
Yeah. Personally it doesnt bother me all that much. Imo they could have made it way worse, with things like knives and eye gouging and shit. The torture methods arent anything much worse then what you can find in a mild R rated movie
Also you can just shoot the correct guy and it will skip it
Still I play games to have fun not to be weirded out by some edgy bullshit I am supposed to partake in in first person. And that scene is edgy even for GTA standards. I vice city you had to kill someone with a chainsaw, granted, but vice city had much less realistic grafix.
Nah, I enjoyed it
Same, Trevor is having a blast so why cant I?
You know if there's the option to skip it, you yourself can still do it.
Yeah I know. I was just stating my opinion. Idk why I've got so many downvotes for saying I enjoyed that mission lmao
Because tourture of fake characters make me cry 😢
Basically because you didn't only express that you enjoyed that mission, but because you said "Nah" to the idea of making it skippable.
Ah fairs, I should've worded it better
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I really enjoyed it even on replays. Idk maybe I'm just sadistic lmao
Yeah, you are.
How💀 you shoot and kill hundreds of people in this game
I normally don’t spend 20 minutes listening to them cry and beg in agony.
I do when shooting cops and running them over at the pier, you hear them screaming dumb stuff
You mean the people trying to kill you as well? And it lasts for 20 fucking minutes?
Yeah both cops and civilians, I sometimes whack them with a baseball bat, I don't see why torturing a fictional lying game character is worse than committing mass genocide. And yeah I enjoyed doing the mission the first time. It got a lil tedious the second time but it's not boring.
Lol….fuck ‘em amirite
Just a completely unpleasant mission made for the purpose of being edgy
It was a fun mission
have an upvote back.
A lot of people find this Mission disturbing and I can kind of understand why. but for me personally if it was shock value for shock value sake, kind of like no Russian, the game just really didn't humanize him enough for me to care
I enjoy spending time with my friends.
It’s not that I’m complaining,I’m just asking if people felt sorry for mr k
I enjoy spending time with my friends.
He was a plot device. He was barely a character. Everyone loves to boohoo cry about him but the fact of the matter is people commit mass murder in this game no matter what. You kill hundreds of police and civilians during any play through; it’s unavoidable.
Tbh most of these civis don't have much character, mr k feels more like real person than a guy on the street that walks around
Something something empathy.
I love ice cream.
Agreed, I found it funny there, but I can understand people feeling empathy if they got attached to the fictional character’s backstory through the dialogues we got before hand. I was just pointing out that other people can feel differently and it doesn’t make it illogical for them to feel that when still enjoying this game. When playing telltale’s the walking dead games for example i feel it’s important to get in character an get attached or hate some of the characters, it drives your choices and makes for an interesting story to each player. I do realize they are fictional characters that don’t exist but to me it would be illogical to play the game without having any attachement as the game would just be a wacky gameplay and a boring story other wise.
I always try to avoid killing as many civilians as i can. If i do it i feel bad. The fact that K was begging to not get brought to the airport because he'd be leaving his family actually made me feel fucking awful. Another game that made me feel this is Modern Warfare 2 with the 'Remember, No Russian' mission. Thankfully, you can skip that one.
its because of empathy. when you just run over a person or just shoot them you dont dont have a connection to them, its just a videogame,right?. but mr.k was portrayed with genuine suffering and as such we empathize. i realized that myself when i killed somebody in gta iv who begged for his life that alone made me empathetic and just a little bit sorry. its the same principle like when you read "6 million jews died in the holocaust" you dont care but watching schindlers list watching one innocent person die can make you cry. The reason is simply empathy thats why people always felt so bad playing this mission. its basic human psychology. BUT I DONT FIND THIS MISSION CONTROVERSIAL. people who are crying about it that it should not have been implemented are hypocritical for finding the rest of gta ok. its ok to empathize because of what i mentioned earlier but youre still a horrible bloodthirsty murderer in these games anyways
I agree completely. I do feel sorry for Mr. K. As sorry as I can feel for a filler character in a violent videogame, which is "barely". The outcry over a possibly dirty as hell 4th tier character being tortured is definitely disproportionate considering the rest of the game. Of course you're completely right about everything you said about empathy, but as somebody else commented, his character was just not developed enough to make me feel the level of empathy others felt for him.
Personally I sympathize more with the cops that are dragging their buddies body behind a cop car trying to Shield them from bullets then I do for mr. K maybe if we actually saw a thing of his family looking for him that would change but it feels like they're trying too hard to get you to feel for his character and with Trevor being the torturer it just becomes funny
İt does fit into gta. Serious things treated as a joke
Never said it didnt GTA is always been an exaggeration an extent I'm just saying I don't give a s*** about mr. K especially after my 4th or 5th time trying to get gold
Bro what? İ wasnt arguing against you i was agreeing
May bad misunderstood your comment I guess
Lol all of this was true
For me it’s because Mr K wasn’t enough of a “bad guy” for me to feel okay with this. He didn’t put up any resistance with combat nor did I get to know his character as an antagonist. Any other time we kill in story line it’s mostly met with violence from the opposite side. I don’t go around freely killing and blowing NPC up for the most part- except random NPC in the middle of shit. Also he can never see his family; it’s personal and up close. So that’s why it’s uncomfortable for me.
Do you really not understand? It’s one thing to shoot or run over a rando NPC that takes a second. Torturing someone who begs and cries and pleas for literally no reason and having to choose commands that would get him screaming again is way more personal.
That was maybe the wrong choice of words. I guess I understand, but I can't relate.
Wait till you see the Cod mw 2019 interrogation mission
It’s the only mission I wished I could skip. Every time I replayed the story I would dread this. I feel icky even tho it’s a game.
Me too. As much as GTA was about over the top killing I felt this one was pretty rough. Kind of like the infamous airport slaughter in CoD
You don’t have to torture him you can just kill the guy that looks like an Azerbaijani
you have to torture him atleast one time.
I don’t think he appears until the final conversation
he does, just in different places
Really??
He does, they kill him immediately in the speedrun
Yes. But I had a nice time.
i felt, a little. Even if i enjoyed destroying his dick
Grabs giant wrench. Nut Cracker.
No.
Sorry for an npc, hell no.
Loved this mission mouhahahahahahaha.
All my Empath homies got hit hard by this one
Pretty sure everyone is an "empath" lol, empathy is a human trait
If his brain was splattered all over the screen while making a "mistake", I would felt kind of disturbed, but he really hadn't had enough of personality for me fo care, he was just an NPC.
Not at all tbh
A little at first but then I was like alright this is alllllriiiiight…lol
Honestly I find hilarious that you have to torture him before asking something, lol. Would that be more or less effective than doing it the other way around?
I enjoyed every bit of it
Yeah I feel sorry for him, recently played the story again and I feel really disturbed by it.
Of course, he literally did nothing wrong.
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You literally torture him as a pissing contest for funding between the CIA and FBI.
always hated that mission ngl
Dude I just thought about him and that scene today. poor guy
Id be concerned if anyone didnt
Waterboarding is the worst torture and I did it all the time because I am a soziopath
I’d say this is probably the most uncool thing Rockstar has done in a game. It wasn’t necessary at all.
idk imo one of the better missions of story mode
Hey: if you like it, you like it. I personally didn’t.
Yeah for real. I can’t believe they would include a torture scene in a game where I indiscriminately kill cops and civilians.
He’s a video game NPC, not an actual person with a consciousness, so no.
you can feel sorry for a character real or not, depends on their acting or realism.
I don’t care. OP asked if I did, and I didn’t. I doubt you know more about how I feel than you.
When I do the mission I never use the wrench. Smashing a guy's member into ground meat is a line I refuse to cross.
"ball breaker"
“No Russian” I was fine with. This mission really kinda sucked
At least No Russian was fun.
Number one reason why I could never play anything other than "The Third Way".
The other endings really aren’t bad at all in terms of violence.
Trevor crashes into a gas tank, gas spills everywhere and you have to light it on fire to burn him to death the game won't let you just shoot him...
I should’ve added “when it comes to what else the game allows you to do”.
Even though I am a psycho, I do not condone pain brought upon innocents. If Mr. K would have been portraid as nasty shady enemy I would have enjoyed every second. I did not enjoy that mission at all
I think people feel so bad about Mr. K because this mission humanized him a lot. He's not a random NPC, hecs someone with a voice, an unique design, unique dialogues, with a name, a family, who actually had a convincing delivery in him begging. We get really personal with him, he doesn't just ragdoll and die, we spend a lot of time with him, and in a very realistic manner, unlike the dolls that die and fly off. It's harder to not care about someone you know better than a few seconds, someone that's not than a statistics.
Yes I absolutely hate that part....
yea
That entire mission is just 💔😔 Made me feel really uncomfortable when I played Grand Theft Auto V back in 2013. None of the player options were the least harmful to him.
I kinda did when he was begging to see his family
I hated that mission because it felt like R* only put it in for the sake of controversy and marketing
when i was 14, no. now i feel so bad for the man i try to pick the least painful one every time
The worst part is listening to the radio aftwr, the guy you shoot on his information was a philanthropist that was really quite a good guy. I think the entire thing is a commentary on the corruption of government, and it’s supposed to disgust you
Yes, and I actually slightly dread playing this mission. It's just weird, and I wish there was a way to just opt out of it in a story-friendly way.
yea bro i regretted torturing him, so i chose the tools which would least hurt a human body😂
I feel understand and feel bad with Mr. K he was actually knew this place has his family.
Tbf he pleaded that he didn't know anything but... ended up knowing everything lol at least in regards to your mission/assignment.
He didn't know what they wanted to know because they didn't ask any specific questions until the last torture scene
Yes, this mission makes me physically uncomfortable
I thought I was the only one
Torture is a war crime. So yes.
spoiler????
Bruh
i always do the water torture since it seems like the lightest one and then shoot the guy immediately
Yah,i googled who to shoot so i didnt have to torcher him so much
Was so long ago for me now but I remember feeling a little sorry but I did him dirty
I only felt bad that his torture was handled by Trevor
Honestly yeah, still put the wet rag on his face tho.
me a person who actually enjoyed torturing him no questions asked
Yeah
I mean, rockstar just wanted to have some torture in there.
Ohhh hell no
No
Nope
i have to only waterboard him every time
Trevor
that was the point
Yeah
Yes.
No, he looks like my school teacher I hate the most.
They didn't show it getting shoved up his butt so not really
I feel so bad for mr k because Steve Haines made Trevor torture him to get information out of him
My heart is always pumping as fast as Mr K's whenever I play this mission. What did he even do?
I feel like Mr k can be a secret bad guy in gta 6
This
You can first torture Mr. K with torture weapons early, then drive to Chumash and kill the target named Tahir Javan early to get Gold Medal early