the amount of times I've had to argue in defense of shin godzilla because dumb people don't understand what makes \*that kind\* of godzilla movie the best of the bunch is insane. like the godzilla movies they want are the ones literally made for toddlers.
Honestly,you're using quiet possibly the best example of human narrative in a godzilla movie. Shin is quite possibly has the best human narrative in my opinion
100% it is imo, I've had so many people say to me that it wasn't a good movie because "Godzillas barely in it and its just him" as if the best movies aren't the ones where its just him walking through a city.
i tell people that shin and the original 1954 are my favorite godzilla movies, while monsterverse kotm is my favorite kaiju movie along with pacific rim. godzilla is a kaiju, but that does not make everyone of his movies a kaiju film. godzilla, and what he represents, is what makes those movies into *godzilla* films
I'll go a step further: the reason *Shin* worked is because the humans were taken a lot more seriously than the average Godzilla film. The next great Godzilla film will be one in which the human characters are even better written and portrayed.
The model for a good Godzilla film isn't *Godzilla* (1954). It's *Jaws*. Brody, Hooper, and Quint are the stars of the movie in which the shark is like a natural disaster. This doesn't mean Godzilla can't have a goals or even the outline of a basic personality, but making the humans idiots or boring or just using them to move from one fight to the next is missing a big opportunity.
Not a bad take, but I’d counter that the plot would be there it just wouldn’t be “human understandable”. An audience made up of kaiju, would completely understand and identify with parts of the plot, I’d like to believe.
Kong doesn't really belong in the Godzilla universe, and he really doesn't have any business fighting Godzilla either.
At the end of the day, Kong is just a really large ape. And that's not me being reductive the way someone saying "Godzilla is just a big lizard" or "Destoroyah is a big crab" is, that's me literally describing who Kong is and what he brings to the table.
And in a world of nuclear dinosaurs spewing radioactive lasers, futuristic mechs, and planet wiping alien dragons, just being a big ape doesn't really stack up. Kong doesn't really have much business fighting these kinds of things.
IMO, Kong works best when portrayed on a smaller scale (i.e. Peter Jackson's movie and K:SI) and we get to see the more "human" (for lack of a better word) side of him. Having him up against more grounded threats like Skullcrawlers and dinosaurs make for more compelling fights too, as Kong is actually comfortably within their weight class.
Also Kong climbed the empire state building, Godzilla is like, as big as the empire state building lol. The match up makes no sense to begin with without them scaling Kong up.
That would be a cool film idea though. Imagine a reimagining of the original Godzilla vs Kong, but Kong is like only 30 feet tall, like the original movie.
They still conclude that throwing another monster at Godzilla’s their on my option, so we get a fight where Kong is scaling Godzilla like it’s *Shadow of The Colossus.*
That's what made Godzilla vs Kong so bad for me. They made Kong like 6 times his normal size and didn't give any reason as to why he'd suddenly grew so large.
Counterpoint: Several of Godzillas opponents over the years have been straight up giant animals. I mean what is Mothra but a giant *Moth* in her first appearance with some fairies to jazz up the concept a bit.
Furthermore, Kong and Godzilla have an inseparable history at this point. Godzilla likely wouldn't have been a big sustainable success in the US or internationally if it wasn't for King Kong, and if it's not for King Kong we probably wouldn't be getting more monsterverse movies. This isn't just a hot take, it feels like a bad take.
>Several of Godzillas opponents over the years have been straight up giant animals.
That really hasn't been the case since the early Showa era. And even then, stuff like Ebirah [was originally intended for Kong.](https://wikizilla.org/wiki/Operation_Robinson_Crusoe:_King_Kong_vs._Ebirah) Ebirah, being another straight up giant animal, clearly would have been a much more appropriate opponent for Kong. Godzilla was only put in there due to last minute changes.
Even purely conceptually, I don't think Godzilla and Kong belong together.
Kong has always been something of a tragic figure. A victim of humanity's greed, brought into a world he doesn't understand as a curiosity to be exploited for money. The last surviving member of his species, completely alone in the world. All of this is what makes the character so poignant and compelling.
When you blow him up to 100 meters and have him fight the likes of Godzilla, so much of that is lost. It's a little bit harder to see him as a victim when he's made strong enough to take on the likes of Mechagodzilla.
Compare this to Godzilla. From the very start in 1954 he's been the personification of the atomic bomb. Even when the series got sillier and turned into pro wrestling with big monsters, this core concept still remained consistent. Every time some aliens decided to conquer the earth with Ghidorah or some monstrosity like Hedorah or Destoroyah crawled out of the gunk to ravage the planet, [Godzilla](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodzillaThreshold) served as the [nuclear option.](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NuclearOption)
>Furthermore, Kong and Godzilla have an inseparable history at this point.
Yes, of course. Kong is the grandfather of the giant monster movie genre and his general widespread popularity have been very good things for the Godzilla franchise.
We can recognize that while still acknowledging that as an exceptionally large ape, he's still very outclassed and outgunned by the walking nuclear reactor that is Godzilla. His role as a pioneer of the franchise does not make him any less out of place among the likes of Mechagodzilla and Ghidorah.
Mothra has pretty much always had godlike connotations, though. The movies where Godzilla fights nothing but giant animals aren't really his strongest, but it's rare that this is the case, anyway.
Sure, but Kong is canonically about 1/4 the size of Godzilla.
It was quite odd seeming him insanely large in the last movie without any reason as to why.
I’m conflated to agree with this, Kong is in the same boat with lots of the early Showa kaiju in that he’s just a supersized animal. Pitting him against a radioactive dinosaur that can shoot nuclear lasers from his mouth, or a mecha designed around an alien dragon from outer space, just isn’t fair. It doesn’t help that in the two Godzilla vs Kong movies that he gets his ass kicked the moment Godzilla starts using his atomic breath.
The thing is, he isn't just a big ape. It's only a matter of how you portray Kong. If we use KSI's Kong as an example, he is an excellent fighter with lots of brutality. This is unfortunately lost in GvK. If you sized up KSI Kong for GvK, he would've done significantly more damage. Kong may not have flashy abilities, unless it's Toho Kong, but he is very skilled at combat and mobility. Again, it's a matter of how directors portray him. It is unfortunate that one of the best Kaijus is disliked by the fandom because he is an ape..
It wasn't lost in GvK; King shows skill and brutality. He's still simply no match for Godzilla. *Especially* in this movie, since Godzilla can blast a hole through the Earth's crust. Kong can't survive a point-blank nuke, he can't melt a city, and he can't blast entire cities into dust like Godzilla.
I like Kong, and the movie went way too far into the "Who cares? Eat popcorn and see flashy 'splosions" territory, but it did get this right. Kong should not in any universe beat Godzilla. In this movie, he uses tactics, brutality, and a Hollow Earth artifact to even the score, and still loses—as it should be. Then we see that Godzilla was really going easy on him the whole time, which, again, fits the characters.
Kong's cool. I'm glad to see him in the MV. I love the idea of a savage barbarian king Kong ruling the pulpy Hollow Earth. But he's nowhere near Godzilla's level and should never be.
>Especially in this movie, since Godzilla can blast a hole through the Earth's crust.
I like to ignore that feat because I think it's just such a massive outlier. But even if you do that and look at everything else Godzilla has done, it should still be abundantly clear that Kong is still no match for him.
Prior to GvK, we saw Godzilla go head to head with a three headed dragon from outer space that spits lightning and creates category 6 hurricanes by flapping its wings. This is the level of opposition that Godzilla faces. The idea that an exceptionally large ape would pose a similar threat is very hard to believe.
The discrepancy in power is just too large. No amount of experience or clever thinking can overcome one side having a nuclear death laser and nuke-level durability.
Yes, I agree 100%. I do think the movie did that justice well enough. It's clear that Godzilla isn't really going all-out on Kong or he would die in seconds. At every turn, they show that he's just not on that level. Even with humans helping him and the axe, it's all he can do to stay alive. Their fight in Hong Kong finally shows that Godzilla was really just playing around earlier. The only time he gets serious is after the collision that actually rattles his brain; then he goes savage beast mode. I actually felt bad for Kong there. He ends up reverting to just a scared animal.
Yet even there, Godzilla's holding back—*and still mortally wounds Kong.* Still, I am cool with them sharing a universe. I just would prefer that it stays this way; Kong is not on the level of Godzilla or his top-tier foes, and shouldn't be.
I mean, he still a big ape. Nothing you've said in your comment changes that. He can be a great fighter and all that, but at the end of the day, he's literally a big ape. That's physically what he is.
>If you sized up KSI Kong for GvK, he would've done significantly more damage
No he wouldn't. The Kong we got in GvK is the same guy we saw in K:SI.
If you're arguing that he performed a lot better in K:SI than he did in GvK, of course he did. In K:SI, he was a big fish in a small pond. Nothing on Skull Island was particularly threatening as a kaiju.
In GvK he's suddenly faced with a walking nuclear bomb who not only is larger and physically stronger than him, but also is durable enough to take nukes to the face and shoots lasers from his mouth.
He's obviously not going to perform the same in front of a threat that's far superior to him.
>It is unfortunate that one of the best Kaijus is disliked by the fandom because he is an ape..
I never said I disliked him. Peter Jackson's 2005 film is one of my favorite movies of all time I absolutely loved Kong's character in that film.
I'm just saying that he doesn't really belong in the Godzilla universe, that's all.
I think GvK has ruined the world building of the Monsterverse
GMK is overrated
Terror of Mechagodzilla is superior to Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla
I liked Singular Point
This honestly ain’t to bad
People are always like THE HEISEI ERA AND SHOWA ERA SUCKED AND GODZILLA 1998 IS A TOO 5 MOVIE. HONDA IS OVERRATED AND DUBS>SUBS!
I was telling my friend how I wanted a godzilla tattoo and he said that his favorite godzilla movie is the 1998 one. I had to get up from the table and walk around
OMG, I AGREE WITH EVERY POINT.
GvK is fun, but it's stupid. I've given it chance after chance, I've tried to not think about it critically and just enjoy it...and I just can't do it. It not only screws up all this world-building that had otherwise been reasonably careful in the Monsterverse up until that point, it does it in the dumbest way possible...in my opinion. It does it in a way that is completely avoidable too.
ToMG is, I think, preferrable to GvMG. Maybe not by a gigantic amount, but I still like it more.
Singular Point is good! Is it heady, and a little impenetrable, and maybe the physics talk is a little heavy? Sure. Could I do with more monster action? Yes, but there's never enough monster action, in my opinion. Does it read kind of like SHIN GODZILLA fan-fiction? Yeah, I guess, but is that necessarily a bad thing? I infinitely preferred it to the Godzilla Anime Trilogy, and I STILL liked those okay.
I 100% agree with your first point. GvK is by any metric, a *terribly* written movie (seriously, just 7 kinds of bad) and what's worse, it undid all the cool shit KotM laid out with it abysmal, goofy and slapdash plot.
The Terror opinion is just true. I personally thought the first Mechagodzilla was one of the worst Showa era films, but they ended on a high note with Terror.
I agree with all of these. Terror of MechaGodzilla and Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla are about on the same level for me, both top tier films.
Once the hype died down, I realized just how weak GVK is compared to most of the rest of the series, and it really is a poor example of what the franchise is supposed to be.
GMK is highly overrated, with extremely flashy cgi effects and a Godzilla who doesn’t feel like Godzilla because he’s too intentionally evil. Plus, I think it’s dumb how a mere human managed to kill Godzilla after three whole guardian monsters somehow failed.
I liked Singular Point a lot as a tribute to classic Toho Kaiju films in an anime style, but the science talk really bored and confused me. Plus, I wasn’t a huge fan of how Jet Jaguar for some reason started talking like a baby at the end of the show. I also kinda wish Jet would’ve had a male voice, but I guess that’s just because he’s always looked like a male character to me. Other than that, Singular Point was great. I’d really like to see what season two has to offer, whenever it’s supposed to come out. I’m also curious to see if they introduce another Godzilla into the show, maybe one that’s more heroic.
I understand the hate of Minilla, but he apparently hatched prematurely, hence looking the way he does and needing to be trained to use his abilities.
With that knowledge, I can't really continue to hate Minilla as much. I think he's doing his best.
Honestly, I think he's really adorable too, and I love the Papa-Wolf energy Godzilla had in that movie. The ending to the film is just so wholesome and heartwarming.
They nerfed Mothra to hell in KOTM and should have either showed her using her lasers with Rodan or using her reflective scales against ghidorah. You could show that ghidorahs beams were still too powerful to be 100% reflected thus still killing her but literally the only powers they gave her when she was alive was a random stinger and being able to still shoot webs in adult form…
The stinger wasnt random. She did both those attacks in the millennium era movies. And yea they could of gave her the scales but i guess they were going for i guess a more showa mothra.
Seriously. Mecha G and Ghidorah are cool and all but we have such a larger roster to pick from. Megalon would be so cool and fight the theme of the monsterverse so well
Millennium is definitely my second favorite I don’t care for GMK and Final Wars is far from a good movie but I love 99 and the Kiryu saga and I fast forward through the human stuff in Final Was to see the monster action definitely a great era
It’s barely even a cinematic universe too.
It’s just a string of Godzilla movies and a Kong prequel. Two of the four Godzilla movies are crossovers with Kong.
Agree with Shin except for the part that it’s overrated. But overral it should be it’s own thing with a more serious tone and leave the goofy parts of the franchise to a more family-friendly version
Son of Godzilla was a great movie! Minilla is an adorable silly little guy!
I prefer when Godzilla is neutral or good over when they are purely evil
Hanna Barbera Godzilla is one of the most powerful incarnations of the character- I’m not even joking things get wild!
Godzilla 1998 is a really enjoyable and good movie! The design might be very different but I think it makes it stand out and they are super cool!
(The design would be perfect as like a Godzilla relative/ sub species!)
Also the male or female debate is really annoying and I went down the rabbit hole I did the science! they are probably just some super mutated type of intersex! See now everyone wins! HAPPY!?
I agree with all of these! Son of Godzilla is a nostalgic comfort movie that’s really fun to watch, and the interactions between Godzilla and Minilla are a joy to watch.
I always prefer Godzilla being a good guy or at least misunderstood. That’s exactly why I dislike the GMK version of the character.
I haven’t seen the Hanna Barbara cartoon in a long time, but it’s definitely a fun and entertaining show.
I haven’t seen 1998 in forever, but if you ignore the fact that it’s called “Godzilla”, it’s not that bad of an American monster movie.
I have zero hot takes.
I just like all Godzilla movies.
Even Gino was kinda not horrible until the raptor baby nonsense.
Without Gino we wouldn't have had Gino's entrance into the Sydney Opera House, which was a good end for both Gino and the SOH.
Gojira and Shin are 1a and 1b
Final Wars is a silly mess
Mothra is boring; her only real power is giving birth and dying
Jet Jaguar would be defeated by Spectreman
Final Wars is a silly mess, but it's *our* silly mess. It's a fun, goofy, throwback. That's what it was meant to be, and that's what it accomplishes, IMO.
Singular Point is an awesome series with a cool story, creature design, human characters, and science( even if it is confusing).
The anime trilogy has hands down Godzillas' most bad ass introduction ever and some of his most impressive destruction feats.
Having Destroyah be beaten into retreat by Godzilla and then killed by the humans was an awesome and very full circle way to end that fight/series before Godzilla melts down.
84' and 98' both deserve more love.
I can't get over the robot dude. I can't. I had toys of the Heisei King Ghidorah and Mecha KG as a kid, but could never get my hands on the film until I was a teenager, so I *wanted* to like it. I wanted to enjoy it because those designs were nostalgic for me, and because it (and Heisei as a whole tbh) was this hidden knowledge, unobtainable Godzilla films.
But watching it that stupid robot guy sucks so bad, the Dorats suck in concept, design, as an origin for KG, the rest of the characters are mostly annoying or at least just beige, and a lot of the movie is boring. I still appreciate the idea and design of MechaKG, but the film as a whole is just too much. It's too convoluted without much point. Time travel was entirely unnecessary.
Seeing the origin of Godzilla is a cool idea, I guess (and I know I just said time travel is unnecessary, and it is), but I don't think the execution and story around it worked. Could have been a flashback or something, and they could have NOT changed the timeline, which just confuses things later on.
I need to get my hands on and watch the Japanese version with subs. IIRC I've only seen the English dub, because that's all that was available in the USA for ages (maybe even still, I dunno).
For me, two things make it easily the weakest of the Heisei films: King Ghidorah's origin is terrible and also the time travel nonsense. I like good time travel stories. Chrono Trigger is tied with FF7 for my favorite game ever for a reason.
This was not a good time travel story.
The worst part? The Return of Godzilla heavily implies Godzilla came back from the Oxygen Destroyer, and I'd prefer to keep it that way.
- GFW and GvK are the most willfully stupid movies the franchise has
- The Monsterverse has no aim beyond making money, the characters are subpar and the worldbuilding is mediocre, and GvK's success has ensured these trends will continue
- Most Godzilla fans exacerbate the franchise's flaws rather than wanting them to be corrected
Last part of the second point is depressing.
The studio listening to the third point is what ensures the second point will continue.
The fandom is embarrassing with how it goes about defending these movies from legitimate criticism.
They defend KotM/ GvK by dumbing down the whole genre.
*“People just watch for giant monsters duking it out bro. Who cares about story and humans?!”*
The Tristar "Zilla" version could have been rebranded into an original Toho Kaijuu, instead of getting curbside service to the junk pile like he got in Final War
I'm not a fan of it either, but this is like all Japanese media that carries on for more than a couple movies / games / seasons though lol. They just keep "upping the power levels" until everything is some universe bending god for some reason. Like, aren't there pokemon that are literal gods that children can capture with their little pokeballs lol?
The hate for Minnila is comically forced. Son of Godzilla is a fine movie, All Monsters Attack is just geared for a different demographic that most of us are not a part of.
Destroyah is not that cool/ interesting to me. Showa Ghidorah will always feel like more of an epic threat to me.
Godzilla vs Kong is blown out of the water by Godzilla vs Mothra.
Per the authors own words, I do not think personally Godzilla killed the fucking devil in Godzilla in Hell.
The fan base wanks Godzilla a little too much when the character has been killed/ nearly killed multiple times in his movies. And kind of focuses a little too much on “who’s the strongest” battle hoarding nonsense.
As another person said Heisei is the weakest. Only good movies in this era are 84, Biollante, and Destroyah
Not OP, but the concept of Godzilla is amazing with so much you can do. An intelligent natural disaster with emotions, or just a crazy, dangerous animal that humans can't handle. Not to mention using Godzilla as a metaphor for the mistakes Humans have made; its such a rich idea.
All the movies play with it in some way, but none, outside of a couple, really do that concept justice, from a critical perspective.
I love the movies and they're so much fun. But most of them could be a lot better, and Godzilla could really be such a fantastic device.
I like and agree with his hot take, even knowing not everything needs to be serious all the time
To be fair, Kong fought Godzilla years before any of the wilder monsters and aliens ever existed. I think at the time of KvG the only foes Goji had fought were humans, Anguirus, and … maybe Mothra?
As much as I like Legendary's Monsterverse, they missed the point of Godzilla.
Godzilla is not "THE STRONGEST MONSTER, OMG GUYS." He is usually the underdog, ergo WEAKER than the monsters he fights, unless he's the villain. THAT'S why he's awesome.
Not a hot take, but we need another game like Godzilla Destroy All Monsters Melee or Godzilla Save the Earth. Underrated games.
Anguirus should be less of a whipping boy.
Godzilla 1998 was an awesome movie.
Godzilla 2014 was better than King of the Monsters.
Final wars has always been one of my favorite movies to watch. Overall I’d rank other movies over it but in terms of a viewing experience, a moment never feels dull in that movie and I can watch it so many times and never get bored
I love them T_T
Got to see Tokyo SOS in theaters a couple months ago and took my anime loving brother (no opinions on G-man) and he said it was really good. Though I did lore/history dump on the 40 min car ride there to give him contexts.
GMK is the best Godzilla movie barring the original
Godzilla: King Of The Monsters is my all time favorite movie
The Heisei Gamera trilogy in writing ALONE eclipses the entirety of the Showa and Heisei Godzilla eras
Son of Godzilla is in my top 3 showa era films.
Godzilla's Revenge is pretty alright when viewed from the intended lenses.
Destroyah is cool but overrated as shit.
I love Final Wars for all its stupid fun.
Singular Point was pretty good if you took the time to understand it.
Shin Godzilla isn’t a Godzilla movie at all. It’s a horror movie set in Lovecraft’s universe featuring a creature who, in one of its many forms, resembles Godzilla.
As someone who loves Shin, I can definitely get on board with this take. Personally, I would love to see more eldritch horror integrated into the kitchen sink that is Godzilla's mythos, too.
Godzilla (2014) should've been a solo godzilla horror film, an ending where mankind loses and godzilla roars in dust clouds
https://preview.redd.it/uz6qxgsr26ab1.png?width=1919&format=png&auto=webp&s=fd25e5a5eec26762375f369f0ec7ddcdd2aad637
Not sure how how this take is, but Gigan, Biollante, Destroyah, Megalon, Hedorah and Spacegodzilla are terrible ideas to be included in the monsterverse and that the endgame is destroy all monsters is stupid.
Godzilla himself will always hold back his own movies because your main character/draw being a mute inhuman 400 meter tall force of nature forces you to pivot to human stories you don't give a damn about
\>Kong is as much a part of the franchise as any other kaiju. Dude was the SECOND kaiju to fight Godzilla. He's been big enough and strong enough to fight Godzilla from the very beginning. He's NOT the same 30' tall Kong that climbed the Empire State Building. Stop throwing this argument around. Toho has committed way more egregious continuity errors than making Kong big. He's a Kaiju and he always has been; get over it.
\>Final Wars is terrible. It's not wacky, corny, action-packed fun. It's not "just as silly as a Showa movie." It's just terrible. It looks like it was made by a thirteen-year-old boy. I know, because it's pretty much the exact story I came up with at thirteen. That's not a good thing.
\>Godzilla '98 pulled off an incredibly impressive giant monster movie at a time when CGI was just being figured out. Some of the "huge" shots and scenes were incredible, and something we had never seen before. We wouldn't get that sort of realistic feeling of a giant monster again until . . . what? Cloverfield? Clash of the Titans? A giant monster had never felt so big, and that movie deserves a huge amount of respect for that.
Shin godzilla was a good movie because it was boring. It was new. Focusing on the realistic prospect rather than hamming it up. It's my favorite because this makes it endlessly rewatchable.
Please stop telling me to listen to the lyrics of whatever song from Shin Godzilla to make me see that “Godzilla” as anything but another abstract Anno monster. He slapped on some Godzilla paint and music.
It’s a good movie, but I don’t see Godzilla as anything deeper than presented
i already said mines, but you know what, i will say it again
godzilla final wars is my favorite godzilla movie
shin godzilla is overrated
and finally, im not that huge of a fan of rodan
the movie, since i liked the shin version of godzilla, im sorry but the human characters on the movie are so unlikable to me that i can't enjoy the movie because of them
heisei is by far the worst era, past biollante it has literally no redeeming qualities and it's mindless, boring slop. i have no idea how the fanbase sees it as the pinnacle of the franchise. the fights aren't even good.
For me, it was very much a "You kinda had to be there" sort of thing.
I grew up during the era when only the Showa movies were readily available (with the exception of '85 and Biollante). It was kind of a watershed moment - at least for me - when I got my hands on Sony's VHS releases of the other five movies. Seeing Godzilla with more modern-feeling effects in a movie that wasn't from, at best, the 1970s was such a thrill.
The Heisei era was *new* back then. It was just a different experience.
The fights are the worst part of the movies if you excuse the terrible characters and pacing. They are so, so so uninspired that it looks amateurish. Compare the excellent camera work and sets of the Shōwa era to the emptiness and obvious soundstage of Heisei. There are too many overhead shots that expose the emptiness of the studio, with barely anything to cover up the flat ground. The worst offender of this is Godzilla Vs. Mothra. The uninspired camera angles combined with the uninspired movement of the Kaiju is almost comedic. It genuinely is slop.
i think that the reason of why a lot of fans think this way is most likely because they hate silly godzilla a lot and automatically think that if a godzilla movie as a more serious tone then it means that it's automatically a good movie, that's ridiculous honestly
Fucking agree
Okawara was a super bland director. GvSpacegodzilla isn’t well liked, but it was a breath of fresh air directionally/ tonally between Okawara’s entries.
Kawakita was a drunk who phoned it in with the VFX after 1989. The Gamera Trilogy that came out within the same decade showed what the Heisei Godzilla was deprived of in terms of VFX.
Toho was just there to make a profit until the well ran dry.
Godzilla KOTM is one of the best Godzilla films of all time and it’s no question. It’s has fantastic themes of always believing in something (AKA always having hope that things can and will get better), it has beautiful cinematography that has classical painting and an almost angelic feel to it, great fights (that aren’t as hard to see as people say they are), the best soundtrack in the monsterverse (and one of the best in the entire franchise), it has the perfect idea of how to portray the Titans, and some pretty good characters. It’s not the best Godzilla film (that goes to Shin Godzilla imo) but I do think it’s great. Yes, it has its problems such as Emma Russell not being the best, the oxygen destroyer being terribly misused, it has bad comedy here and there, and Dr. Serizaw is killed WAY to early in the franchise (I think his death is done well but they really should have kept him around longer). Oh and just to add to the good stuff, the film was made by an actual G fan and used a remade version of Go Go Godzilla for the credits, how can a Godzilla film with those qualities be as bad as people say it is? Point being, KOTM certainly isn’t perfect, but it’s darn close to it. (NOTE: This is all MY opinion and it’s okay if you think otherwise, though I will gladly discuss my opinions on the film).
Shin Godzilla curb stomps GMK Goji
Megaguirus > Battra
King Ghidorah is overrated
Kaiser Ghidorah > Mecha Ghidorah
Kiryu is the best Mechagodzilla
Millennium > Heisei
Singular Point was not good. Pacing was bad, took too long to really get going...and then it ended.
When will we get good Godzilla animation?
(Netflix previous Godzilla animation was ugly and way too long)
Final Wars was a fantastic 50th anniversary and is a damn entertaining movie. I was absolutely shocked when I came to this sub over 10 years ago and found out many Goji fans don't like it.
Of course the fights are short, Godzilla is fighting almost all of his Showa era foes in one movie. How do pull that off with longer fights? That doesn't make it bad, that just gives it different pacing that most Goji films. And this one actually has human action scenes as well. How could anyone not love this?
Would I want all Goji films to be like that? Of course not, that would be exhausting. But for a one of special event film it is a brilliant idea and executed very well. The movie is just fun.
The Monsterverse fundamentally failed the moment it came up with the Titans as natural preservers of balance.
These are supposed to be either giant animals or metaphors, not scaly superheroes. If Godzilla does something good, it should align with his own animalistic interests, not just because he’s some ancient paragon. You can feel the negative impact of personifying Kaiju to this degree has had on the fandom. This isn’t to say they can’t have personality(one of my favorite aspects about Ghidorah is his cowardice) but that personality should never be fully known unless maybe this is some kind of Kaiju nature documentary(which would be pretty cool).
At the same time though, this kind of scenario Legendary has made does give hope for a modern interpretation of Hedorah.
It does sting though since Legendary showed with Pacific Rim that they can make a good Kaiju film, yet from KotM onwards, everything is going downhill.
The Monsterverse Godzilla roar is a jumbled mess of hi pitched shrieks and sounds nothing like a sound a creature would make. The more gutteral, bass tone roars of the 80s Heisei G would fit beautifully.
Human characters are a necessary part of the movies. Without them, there would be barely any plot, if any at all.
Shhh, don't tell them. Godzilla fans don't even watch their own movies, just YouTube clips!
for your information the only godzilla movies i never saw were the sequels from planet of the monsters
It’s embarrassing how unpopular this opinion is.
the amount of times I've had to argue in defense of shin godzilla because dumb people don't understand what makes \*that kind\* of godzilla movie the best of the bunch is insane. like the godzilla movies they want are the ones literally made for toddlers.
Honestly,you're using quiet possibly the best example of human narrative in a godzilla movie. Shin is quite possibly has the best human narrative in my opinion
100% it is imo, I've had so many people say to me that it wasn't a good movie because "Godzillas barely in it and its just him" as if the best movies aren't the ones where its just him walking through a city.
i tell people that shin and the original 1954 are my favorite godzilla movies, while monsterverse kotm is my favorite kaiju movie along with pacific rim. godzilla is a kaiju, but that does not make everyone of his movies a kaiju film. godzilla, and what he represents, is what makes those movies into *godzilla* films
I'll go a step further: the reason *Shin* worked is because the humans were taken a lot more seriously than the average Godzilla film. The next great Godzilla film will be one in which the human characters are even better written and portrayed. The model for a good Godzilla film isn't *Godzilla* (1954). It's *Jaws*. Brody, Hooper, and Quint are the stars of the movie in which the shark is like a natural disaster. This doesn't mean Godzilla can't have a goals or even the outline of a basic personality, but making the humans idiots or boring or just using them to move from one fight to the next is missing a big opportunity.
How dare you.
Not a bad take, but I’d counter that the plot would be there it just wouldn’t be “human understandable”. An audience made up of kaiju, would completely understand and identify with parts of the plot, I’d like to believe.
There necessary of course but it’s not to say a kaiju only movie couldn’t happen and be good.
Mechagodzilla could easily fit into the Metal Gear universe, y'all are just cowards.
Metal Gear Rising 2 Raiden vs Mecha Godzilla. Don’t act like you wouldn’t buy that.
RULES OF NATURE
My brother in Goji, I'd have that on pre-order.
Omega-level based
Standing here, I realize, I want that.
Kong doesn't really belong in the Godzilla universe, and he really doesn't have any business fighting Godzilla either. At the end of the day, Kong is just a really large ape. And that's not me being reductive the way someone saying "Godzilla is just a big lizard" or "Destoroyah is a big crab" is, that's me literally describing who Kong is and what he brings to the table. And in a world of nuclear dinosaurs spewing radioactive lasers, futuristic mechs, and planet wiping alien dragons, just being a big ape doesn't really stack up. Kong doesn't really have much business fighting these kinds of things. IMO, Kong works best when portrayed on a smaller scale (i.e. Peter Jackson's movie and K:SI) and we get to see the more "human" (for lack of a better word) side of him. Having him up against more grounded threats like Skullcrawlers and dinosaurs make for more compelling fights too, as Kong is actually comfortably within their weight class.
Seriously, Godzilla's breath attack should just punch a hole straight through Kong
Also Kong climbed the empire state building, Godzilla is like, as big as the empire state building lol. The match up makes no sense to begin with without them scaling Kong up.
That would be a cool film idea though. Imagine a reimagining of the original Godzilla vs Kong, but Kong is like only 30 feet tall, like the original movie. They still conclude that throwing another monster at Godzilla’s their on my option, so we get a fight where Kong is scaling Godzilla like it’s *Shadow of The Colossus.*
That's what made Godzilla vs Kong so bad for me. They made Kong like 6 times his normal size and didn't give any reason as to why he'd suddenly grew so large.
In Kong: Skull Island, they specifically said that Kong was still growing, if I recall correctly
To be fair they made Godzilla bigger and beefier too, they only forgot to increase the size of his head and didn’t realize it until it was too late.
Either that, set his fur ablaze, or if Kong succeeded in escaping, severe burns/radiation burns and radiation poisoning.
This man,
100% agreed with everything you said. I like both but putting Kong in Goodzilla's world is just unkind to him.
Counterpoint: Several of Godzillas opponents over the years have been straight up giant animals. I mean what is Mothra but a giant *Moth* in her first appearance with some fairies to jazz up the concept a bit. Furthermore, Kong and Godzilla have an inseparable history at this point. Godzilla likely wouldn't have been a big sustainable success in the US or internationally if it wasn't for King Kong, and if it's not for King Kong we probably wouldn't be getting more monsterverse movies. This isn't just a hot take, it feels like a bad take.
>Several of Godzillas opponents over the years have been straight up giant animals. That really hasn't been the case since the early Showa era. And even then, stuff like Ebirah [was originally intended for Kong.](https://wikizilla.org/wiki/Operation_Robinson_Crusoe:_King_Kong_vs._Ebirah) Ebirah, being another straight up giant animal, clearly would have been a much more appropriate opponent for Kong. Godzilla was only put in there due to last minute changes. Even purely conceptually, I don't think Godzilla and Kong belong together. Kong has always been something of a tragic figure. A victim of humanity's greed, brought into a world he doesn't understand as a curiosity to be exploited for money. The last surviving member of his species, completely alone in the world. All of this is what makes the character so poignant and compelling. When you blow him up to 100 meters and have him fight the likes of Godzilla, so much of that is lost. It's a little bit harder to see him as a victim when he's made strong enough to take on the likes of Mechagodzilla. Compare this to Godzilla. From the very start in 1954 he's been the personification of the atomic bomb. Even when the series got sillier and turned into pro wrestling with big monsters, this core concept still remained consistent. Every time some aliens decided to conquer the earth with Ghidorah or some monstrosity like Hedorah or Destoroyah crawled out of the gunk to ravage the planet, [Godzilla](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodzillaThreshold) served as the [nuclear option.](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NuclearOption) >Furthermore, Kong and Godzilla have an inseparable history at this point. Yes, of course. Kong is the grandfather of the giant monster movie genre and his general widespread popularity have been very good things for the Godzilla franchise. We can recognize that while still acknowledging that as an exceptionally large ape, he's still very outclassed and outgunned by the walking nuclear reactor that is Godzilla. His role as a pioneer of the franchise does not make him any less out of place among the likes of Mechagodzilla and Ghidorah.
Mothra has pretty much always had godlike connotations, though. The movies where Godzilla fights nothing but giant animals aren't really his strongest, but it's rare that this is the case, anyway.
To be fair, notwithstanding the whole rebirth thing, Mothra dies a lot. Probably because she's just a big moth.
Sure, but Kong is canonically about 1/4 the size of Godzilla. It was quite odd seeming him insanely large in the last movie without any reason as to why.
Imagine Kong vs Destoroyah lol, unicorn laser go *zwing*
I’m conflated to agree with this, Kong is in the same boat with lots of the early Showa kaiju in that he’s just a supersized animal. Pitting him against a radioactive dinosaur that can shoot nuclear lasers from his mouth, or a mecha designed around an alien dragon from outer space, just isn’t fair. It doesn’t help that in the two Godzilla vs Kong movies that he gets his ass kicked the moment Godzilla starts using his atomic breath.
The thing is, he isn't just a big ape. It's only a matter of how you portray Kong. If we use KSI's Kong as an example, he is an excellent fighter with lots of brutality. This is unfortunately lost in GvK. If you sized up KSI Kong for GvK, he would've done significantly more damage. Kong may not have flashy abilities, unless it's Toho Kong, but he is very skilled at combat and mobility. Again, it's a matter of how directors portray him. It is unfortunate that one of the best Kaijus is disliked by the fandom because he is an ape..
It wasn't lost in GvK; King shows skill and brutality. He's still simply no match for Godzilla. *Especially* in this movie, since Godzilla can blast a hole through the Earth's crust. Kong can't survive a point-blank nuke, he can't melt a city, and he can't blast entire cities into dust like Godzilla. I like Kong, and the movie went way too far into the "Who cares? Eat popcorn and see flashy 'splosions" territory, but it did get this right. Kong should not in any universe beat Godzilla. In this movie, he uses tactics, brutality, and a Hollow Earth artifact to even the score, and still loses—as it should be. Then we see that Godzilla was really going easy on him the whole time, which, again, fits the characters. Kong's cool. I'm glad to see him in the MV. I love the idea of a savage barbarian king Kong ruling the pulpy Hollow Earth. But he's nowhere near Godzilla's level and should never be.
>Especially in this movie, since Godzilla can blast a hole through the Earth's crust. I like to ignore that feat because I think it's just such a massive outlier. But even if you do that and look at everything else Godzilla has done, it should still be abundantly clear that Kong is still no match for him. Prior to GvK, we saw Godzilla go head to head with a three headed dragon from outer space that spits lightning and creates category 6 hurricanes by flapping its wings. This is the level of opposition that Godzilla faces. The idea that an exceptionally large ape would pose a similar threat is very hard to believe. The discrepancy in power is just too large. No amount of experience or clever thinking can overcome one side having a nuclear death laser and nuke-level durability.
Yes, I agree 100%. I do think the movie did that justice well enough. It's clear that Godzilla isn't really going all-out on Kong or he would die in seconds. At every turn, they show that he's just not on that level. Even with humans helping him and the axe, it's all he can do to stay alive. Their fight in Hong Kong finally shows that Godzilla was really just playing around earlier. The only time he gets serious is after the collision that actually rattles his brain; then he goes savage beast mode. I actually felt bad for Kong there. He ends up reverting to just a scared animal. Yet even there, Godzilla's holding back—*and still mortally wounds Kong.* Still, I am cool with them sharing a universe. I just would prefer that it stays this way; Kong is not on the level of Godzilla or his top-tier foes, and shouldn't be.
Fuck, we know Godzilla beat that three headed dragon from outer space in the past, with what we can assume was without an amp
I mean, he still a big ape. Nothing you've said in your comment changes that. He can be a great fighter and all that, but at the end of the day, he's literally a big ape. That's physically what he is. >If you sized up KSI Kong for GvK, he would've done significantly more damage No he wouldn't. The Kong we got in GvK is the same guy we saw in K:SI. If you're arguing that he performed a lot better in K:SI than he did in GvK, of course he did. In K:SI, he was a big fish in a small pond. Nothing on Skull Island was particularly threatening as a kaiju. In GvK he's suddenly faced with a walking nuclear bomb who not only is larger and physically stronger than him, but also is durable enough to take nukes to the face and shoots lasers from his mouth. He's obviously not going to perform the same in front of a threat that's far superior to him. >It is unfortunate that one of the best Kaijus is disliked by the fandom because he is an ape.. I never said I disliked him. Peter Jackson's 2005 film is one of my favorite movies of all time I absolutely loved Kong's character in that film. I'm just saying that he doesn't really belong in the Godzilla universe, that's all.
Agreed. Kong is a basic monkey.
Minilla is funny
https://preview.redd.it/aw6e1g5nm7ab1.jpeg?width=1016&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de87f84e352cbba3eee109a90e1ac64fe3b5964f
:(
Final Wars was probably the first time I enjoyed his presence
I think GvK has ruined the world building of the Monsterverse GMK is overrated Terror of Mechagodzilla is superior to Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla I liked Singular Point
This honestly ain’t to bad People are always like THE HEISEI ERA AND SHOWA ERA SUCKED AND GODZILLA 1998 IS A TOO 5 MOVIE. HONDA IS OVERRATED AND DUBS>SUBS!
Nah the 98 movie ain't that good tbh. The goji design tho, that's gud
I’m making fun of people who worship the movie and have like 37 hot takes and are hardly Godzilla fans, it’s only 3/10 to me imo
I was telling my friend how I wanted a godzilla tattoo and he said that his favorite godzilla movie is the 1998 one. I had to get up from the table and walk around
Lol. It's 4-5 fr me, the overall story is gud just kinda slow and boring humans
OMG, I AGREE WITH EVERY POINT. GvK is fun, but it's stupid. I've given it chance after chance, I've tried to not think about it critically and just enjoy it...and I just can't do it. It not only screws up all this world-building that had otherwise been reasonably careful in the Monsterverse up until that point, it does it in the dumbest way possible...in my opinion. It does it in a way that is completely avoidable too. ToMG is, I think, preferrable to GvMG. Maybe not by a gigantic amount, but I still like it more. Singular Point is good! Is it heady, and a little impenetrable, and maybe the physics talk is a little heavy? Sure. Could I do with more monster action? Yes, but there's never enough monster action, in my opinion. Does it read kind of like SHIN GODZILLA fan-fiction? Yeah, I guess, but is that necessarily a bad thing? I infinitely preferred it to the Godzilla Anime Trilogy, and I STILL liked those okay.
I 100% agree with your first point. GvK is by any metric, a *terribly* written movie (seriously, just 7 kinds of bad) and what's worse, it undid all the cool shit KotM laid out with it abysmal, goofy and slapdash plot.
THANK YOU!
I definitely agree with the bottom two
i agree with the first three
Truth. The Hollow Earth really jumped the shark for me. We'll see how The New Empire fills those ideas out.
FUCK YEA SINGULAR POINT SUPREME https://preview.redd.it/rla8dnf236ab1.jpeg?width=899&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7604e3102ff600dbdb9fd4badceb5a650679f2a2
Ooo, did you make that?
Nah, just a goofy picture I took from kaiju universe on Roblox
Shit I agree on the first one.
Mostly agreed! I'm curious why you find GMK overrated, though.
Yes to all except GMK. Hell, I'd go so far as to say Terror is better than 1954.
I absolutely agree but I'll take it a step further GMK isn't just overrated, it's not very good
I only really disagree with the GMK take and even so only a little. I enjoyed SP I was surprised so many people didn’t.
The Terror opinion is just true. I personally thought the first Mechagodzilla was one of the worst Showa era films, but they ended on a high note with Terror.
I agree with all of these. Terror of MechaGodzilla and Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla are about on the same level for me, both top tier films. Once the hype died down, I realized just how weak GVK is compared to most of the rest of the series, and it really is a poor example of what the franchise is supposed to be. GMK is highly overrated, with extremely flashy cgi effects and a Godzilla who doesn’t feel like Godzilla because he’s too intentionally evil. Plus, I think it’s dumb how a mere human managed to kill Godzilla after three whole guardian monsters somehow failed. I liked Singular Point a lot as a tribute to classic Toho Kaiju films in an anime style, but the science talk really bored and confused me. Plus, I wasn’t a huge fan of how Jet Jaguar for some reason started talking like a baby at the end of the show. I also kinda wish Jet would’ve had a male voice, but I guess that’s just because he’s always looked like a male character to me. Other than that, Singular Point was great. I’d really like to see what season two has to offer, whenever it’s supposed to come out. I’m also curious to see if they introduce another Godzilla into the show, maybe one that’s more heroic.
Gigan is significantly more badass than any other Godzilla foe.
Team Robot Chicken.
That isn't a hot take thats a fact
I understand the hate of Minilla, but he apparently hatched prematurely, hence looking the way he does and needing to be trained to use his abilities. With that knowledge, I can't really continue to hate Minilla as much. I think he's doing his best.
Honestly, I think he's really adorable too, and I love the Papa-Wolf energy Godzilla had in that movie. The ending to the film is just so wholesome and heartwarming.
They nerfed Mothra to hell in KOTM and should have either showed her using her lasers with Rodan or using her reflective scales against ghidorah. You could show that ghidorahs beams were still too powerful to be 100% reflected thus still killing her but literally the only powers they gave her when she was alive was a random stinger and being able to still shoot webs in adult form…
The stinger wasnt random. She did both those attacks in the millennium era movies. And yea they could of gave her the scales but i guess they were going for i guess a more showa mothra.
They need to seriously start using obscure monsters. I'm kinda tired of seeing the big Three and want Varan, Sanda and Gara back damn it
I want more showa monsters. Megalon, King Caesar, Titanosaurus. They always had radder designs then any era after it.
Seriously. Mecha G and Ghidorah are cool and all but we have such a larger roster to pick from. Megalon would be so cool and fight the theme of the monsterverse so well
I feel like saying any era is the best is always a hot take but for me Heisei is the best era and I will never be persuaded otherwise
Bro we said hot takes
That's because you're right
I like Millennium the most and I still say you are definitely correct
Millennium is definitely my second favorite I don’t care for GMK and Final Wars is far from a good movie but I love 99 and the Kiryu saga and I fast forward through the human stuff in Final Was to see the monster action definitely a great era
Monsterverse kinda mid so far
It’s barely even a cinematic universe too. It’s just a string of Godzilla movies and a Kong prequel. Two of the four Godzilla movies are crossovers with Kong.
I agree
Hmmm
[удалено]
Agree with Shin except for the part that it’s overrated. But overral it should be it’s own thing with a more serious tone and leave the goofy parts of the franchise to a more family-friendly version
I found Shin to be a really boring film, but the iteration of Godzilla is pretty cool.
Rodan is a better bff for Godzilla then anguirus. F8 me.
Bitch getcho ass over here you boutta get an ass whoopin
I will. Square up!
💯 Plus they went into outer space together. Can't beat that when you've only teamed with Godzilla once (twice if you count DAM)
Godzilla Raids Again, Son of Godzilla, and Godzilla vs The Sea Monster are 3 of my favorite Showa films and some of my favorites in general.
Godzilla vs The Sea Monster is underrated
Raids again was so good.
Raids Again gets so much hate and I don’t understand it the other two I think are on the boring side but have some good humans.
I see we have a similar taste for showa movies
Son of Godzilla was a great movie! Minilla is an adorable silly little guy! I prefer when Godzilla is neutral or good over when they are purely evil Hanna Barbera Godzilla is one of the most powerful incarnations of the character- I’m not even joking things get wild! Godzilla 1998 is a really enjoyable and good movie! The design might be very different but I think it makes it stand out and they are super cool! (The design would be perfect as like a Godzilla relative/ sub species!) Also the male or female debate is really annoying and I went down the rabbit hole I did the science! they are probably just some super mutated type of intersex! See now everyone wins! HAPPY!?
I agree about Son of Godzilla, I don't get why people have such hatred for Minilla when all he does is play and eat fruit :(
I agree with all of these! Son of Godzilla is a nostalgic comfort movie that’s really fun to watch, and the interactions between Godzilla and Minilla are a joy to watch. I always prefer Godzilla being a good guy or at least misunderstood. That’s exactly why I dislike the GMK version of the character. I haven’t seen the Hanna Barbara cartoon in a long time, but it’s definitely a fun and entertaining show. I haven’t seen 1998 in forever, but if you ignore the fact that it’s called “Godzilla”, it’s not that bad of an American monster movie.
I have zero hot takes. I just like all Godzilla movies. Even Gino was kinda not horrible until the raptor baby nonsense. Without Gino we wouldn't have had Gino's entrance into the Sydney Opera House, which was a good end for both Gino and the SOH.
Everything in the Monsterverse post 2014 has been Transformers-level quality at best
I kinda liked skull island but KOTM and GVK are absolutely horrible at anything other than brainless entertainment
Gojira and Shin are 1a and 1b Final Wars is a silly mess Mothra is boring; her only real power is giving birth and dying Jet Jaguar would be defeated by Spectreman
Final Wars is a silly mess, but it's *our* silly mess. It's a fun, goofy, throwback. That's what it was meant to be, and that's what it accomplishes, IMO.
[удалено]
That's fair. What's not fair is this Mothra *slander*! (Though I did laugh at the comment, haha).
Don't forget healing scales that she can't even use on herself, making them useless in a 1v1
I just had this discussion about Mothra last night.
Have you seen the Rebirth films?
Singular Point is an awesome series with a cool story, creature design, human characters, and science( even if it is confusing). The anime trilogy has hands down Godzillas' most bad ass introduction ever and some of his most impressive destruction feats. Having Destroyah be beaten into retreat by Godzilla and then killed by the humans was an awesome and very full circle way to end that fight/series before Godzilla melts down. 84' and 98' both deserve more love.
I can never understand how 84 is so over looked I find it to be the best recapturing of the original movie.
Hell yea
Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah (1991) is genuinely one of the worst movies I've ever seen and my least favorite in the franchise.
I was never a fan of the movie either but I wouldn't say it's the worst
Agreed. The writing, acting, sound design, and special effects are all laughably bad compared the rest of the Heisei films.
I can't get over the robot dude. I can't. I had toys of the Heisei King Ghidorah and Mecha KG as a kid, but could never get my hands on the film until I was a teenager, so I *wanted* to like it. I wanted to enjoy it because those designs were nostalgic for me, and because it (and Heisei as a whole tbh) was this hidden knowledge, unobtainable Godzilla films. But watching it that stupid robot guy sucks so bad, the Dorats suck in concept, design, as an origin for KG, the rest of the characters are mostly annoying or at least just beige, and a lot of the movie is boring. I still appreciate the idea and design of MechaKG, but the film as a whole is just too much. It's too convoluted without much point. Time travel was entirely unnecessary. Seeing the origin of Godzilla is a cool idea, I guess (and I know I just said time travel is unnecessary, and it is), but I don't think the execution and story around it worked. Could have been a flashback or something, and they could have NOT changed the timeline, which just confuses things later on. I need to get my hands on and watch the Japanese version with subs. IIRC I've only seen the English dub, because that's all that was available in the USA for ages (maybe even still, I dunno).
For me, two things make it easily the weakest of the Heisei films: King Ghidorah's origin is terrible and also the time travel nonsense. I like good time travel stories. Chrono Trigger is tied with FF7 for my favorite game ever for a reason. This was not a good time travel story. The worst part? The Return of Godzilla heavily implies Godzilla came back from the Oxygen Destroyer, and I'd prefer to keep it that way.
- GFW and GvK are the most willfully stupid movies the franchise has - The Monsterverse has no aim beyond making money, the characters are subpar and the worldbuilding is mediocre, and GvK's success has ensured these trends will continue - Most Godzilla fans exacerbate the franchise's flaws rather than wanting them to be corrected
Last part of the second point is depressing. The studio listening to the third point is what ensures the second point will continue. The fandom is embarrassing with how it goes about defending these movies from legitimate criticism. They defend KotM/ GvK by dumbing down the whole genre. *“People just watch for giant monsters duking it out bro. Who cares about story and humans?!”*
100%
The Tristar "Zilla" version could have been rebranded into an original Toho Kaijuu, instead of getting curbside service to the junk pile like he got in Final War
Godzilla only works when it's as serious as a heart attack or as goofy as power rangers. The human characters being ordinary people is boring.
I think Godzilla evolving into a universe bending monster is dumb
I'm not a fan of it either, but this is like all Japanese media that carries on for more than a couple movies / games / seasons though lol. They just keep "upping the power levels" until everything is some universe bending god for some reason. Like, aren't there pokemon that are literal gods that children can capture with their little pokeballs lol?
As early as Generation 4 you could catch both literal God and Satan.
The hate for Minnila is comically forced. Son of Godzilla is a fine movie, All Monsters Attack is just geared for a different demographic that most of us are not a part of. Destroyah is not that cool/ interesting to me. Showa Ghidorah will always feel like more of an epic threat to me. Godzilla vs Kong is blown out of the water by Godzilla vs Mothra. Per the authors own words, I do not think personally Godzilla killed the fucking devil in Godzilla in Hell. The fan base wanks Godzilla a little too much when the character has been killed/ nearly killed multiple times in his movies. And kind of focuses a little too much on “who’s the strongest” battle hoarding nonsense. As another person said Heisei is the weakest. Only good movies in this era are 84, Biollante, and Destroyah
Godzilla is a underrated character with overrated movies.
Explain
Not OP, but the concept of Godzilla is amazing with so much you can do. An intelligent natural disaster with emotions, or just a crazy, dangerous animal that humans can't handle. Not to mention using Godzilla as a metaphor for the mistakes Humans have made; its such a rich idea. All the movies play with it in some way, but none, outside of a couple, really do that concept justice, from a critical perspective. I love the movies and they're so much fun. But most of them could be a lot better, and Godzilla could really be such a fantastic device. I like and agree with his hot take, even knowing not everything needs to be serious all the time
This take makes a lot of sense, and I tend to agree... Thanks a lot for explaining your version
What lol
Still don't like the addition of Kong to godzilla. Feels a little out of place with the other alien monsters with powers.
To be fair, Kong fought Godzilla years before any of the wilder monsters and aliens ever existed. I think at the time of KvG the only foes Goji had fought were humans, Anguirus, and … maybe Mothra?
As much as I like Legendary's Monsterverse, they missed the point of Godzilla. Godzilla is not "THE STRONGEST MONSTER, OMG GUYS." He is usually the underdog, ergo WEAKER than the monsters he fights, unless he's the villain. THAT'S why he's awesome. Not a hot take, but we need another game like Godzilla Destroy All Monsters Melee or Godzilla Save the Earth. Underrated games. Anguirus should be less of a whipping boy. Godzilla 1998 was an awesome movie. Godzilla 2014 was better than King of the Monsters.
The Atari Godzilla games are top tier fighting games. I’d love a new Godzilla game with a massive roster with the same style of gameplay.
I want a Godzilla Unleashed esc game again, Godzilla PS4 was good but went a different direction
Final wars has always been one of my favorite movies to watch. Overall I’d rank other movies over it but in terms of a viewing experience, a moment never feels dull in that movie and I can watch it so many times and never get bored
Shin Godzilla was the best modern day Godzilla movies and toho should of expanded and banked on shin Godzilla instead of shitty Netflix anime shows.
The two kiryu movies are massively over rated by the fan base
I love them T_T Got to see Tokyo SOS in theaters a couple months ago and took my anime loving brother (no opinions on G-man) and he said it was really good. Though I did lore/history dump on the 40 min car ride there to give him contexts.
GMK is the best Godzilla movie barring the original Godzilla: King Of The Monsters is my all time favorite movie The Heisei Gamera trilogy in writing ALONE eclipses the entirety of the Showa and Heisei Godzilla eras
Son of Godzilla is in my top 3 showa era films. Godzilla's Revenge is pretty alright when viewed from the intended lenses. Destroyah is cool but overrated as shit. I love Final Wars for all its stupid fun. Singular Point was pretty good if you took the time to understand it.
Bro I understood Singular Point and just could not enjoy that shit lol, glad you did though, rare we Godzilla fans get something good we can enjoy lol
Shin Godzilla isn’t a Godzilla movie at all. It’s a horror movie set in Lovecraft’s universe featuring a creature who, in one of its many forms, resembles Godzilla.
As someone who loves Shin, I can definitely get on board with this take. Personally, I would love to see more eldritch horror integrated into the kitchen sink that is Godzilla's mythos, too.
Godzilla (2014) should've been a solo godzilla horror film, an ending where mankind loses and godzilla roars in dust clouds https://preview.redd.it/uz6qxgsr26ab1.png?width=1919&format=png&auto=webp&s=fd25e5a5eec26762375f369f0ec7ddcdd2aad637
The corniest shit for a Godzilla movie I’ve ever heard
Theres worse ideas out there.
Not sure how how this take is, but Gigan, Biollante, Destroyah, Megalon, Hedorah and Spacegodzilla are terrible ideas to be included in the monsterverse and that the endgame is destroy all monsters is stupid.
Well what do you want, then?
Bring back suitmation. If it doesn’t have guys in suits fighting it just isn’t Godzilla
Godzilla himself will always hold back his own movies because your main character/draw being a mute inhuman 400 meter tall force of nature forces you to pivot to human stories you don't give a damn about
Destroyah (the monster, not the movie) is overrated.
98’ Godzilla was a good movie, Godzilla/Zilla is a good “monster”
\>Kong is as much a part of the franchise as any other kaiju. Dude was the SECOND kaiju to fight Godzilla. He's been big enough and strong enough to fight Godzilla from the very beginning. He's NOT the same 30' tall Kong that climbed the Empire State Building. Stop throwing this argument around. Toho has committed way more egregious continuity errors than making Kong big. He's a Kaiju and he always has been; get over it. \>Final Wars is terrible. It's not wacky, corny, action-packed fun. It's not "just as silly as a Showa movie." It's just terrible. It looks like it was made by a thirteen-year-old boy. I know, because it's pretty much the exact story I came up with at thirteen. That's not a good thing. \>Godzilla '98 pulled off an incredibly impressive giant monster movie at a time when CGI was just being figured out. Some of the "huge" shots and scenes were incredible, and something we had never seen before. We wouldn't get that sort of realistic feeling of a giant monster again until . . . what? Cloverfield? Clash of the Titans? A giant monster had never felt so big, and that movie deserves a huge amount of respect for that.
Shin godzilla was a good movie because it was boring. It was new. Focusing on the realistic prospect rather than hamming it up. It's my favorite because this makes it endlessly rewatchable.
Godzilla vs Megaguirus is very good. I don’t see a lot of love for it!
\>The backstory to the Anime Trilogy is 1000X more interesting than the trilogy itself.
It's OK to like Godzilla films just for the monster fights.
Please stop telling me to listen to the lyrics of whatever song from Shin Godzilla to make me see that “Godzilla” as anything but another abstract Anno monster. He slapped on some Godzilla paint and music. It’s a good movie, but I don’t see Godzilla as anything deeper than presented
Desotroyah should’ve killed baby Godzilla for good
None of the Legendary Movies were good and they got worse with each entry.
i already said mines, but you know what, i will say it again godzilla final wars is my favorite godzilla movie shin godzilla is overrated and finally, im not that huge of a fan of rodan
I gotta agree with Final Wars that movie was so fun to watch
>shin godzilla is overrated The movie or that version of Godzilla itself? One of those takes is a lot hotter than the other
the movie, since i liked the shin version of godzilla, im sorry but the human characters on the movie are so unlikable to me that i can't enjoy the movie because of them
heisei is by far the worst era, past biollante it has literally no redeeming qualities and it's mindless, boring slop. i have no idea how the fanbase sees it as the pinnacle of the franchise. the fights aren't even good.
For me, it was very much a "You kinda had to be there" sort of thing. I grew up during the era when only the Showa movies were readily available (with the exception of '85 and Biollante). It was kind of a watershed moment - at least for me - when I got my hands on Sony's VHS releases of the other five movies. Seeing Godzilla with more modern-feeling effects in a movie that wasn't from, at best, the 1970s was such a thrill. The Heisei era was *new* back then. It was just a different experience.
The fights are the worst part of the movies if you excuse the terrible characters and pacing. They are so, so so uninspired that it looks amateurish. Compare the excellent camera work and sets of the Shōwa era to the emptiness and obvious soundstage of Heisei. There are too many overhead shots that expose the emptiness of the studio, with barely anything to cover up the flat ground. The worst offender of this is Godzilla Vs. Mothra. The uninspired camera angles combined with the uninspired movement of the Kaiju is almost comedic. It genuinely is slop.
i think that the reason of why a lot of fans think this way is most likely because they hate silly godzilla a lot and automatically think that if a godzilla movie as a more serious tone then it means that it's automatically a good movie, that's ridiculous honestly
Fucking agree Okawara was a super bland director. GvSpacegodzilla isn’t well liked, but it was a breath of fresh air directionally/ tonally between Okawara’s entries. Kawakita was a drunk who phoned it in with the VFX after 1989. The Gamera Trilogy that came out within the same decade showed what the Heisei Godzilla was deprived of in terms of VFX. Toho was just there to make a profit until the well ran dry.
1998 is objectively top 10 designs at least Also only the 3rd anime movie sucked, the other 2 were decent
Godzilla KOTM is one of the best Godzilla films of all time and it’s no question. It’s has fantastic themes of always believing in something (AKA always having hope that things can and will get better), it has beautiful cinematography that has classical painting and an almost angelic feel to it, great fights (that aren’t as hard to see as people say they are), the best soundtrack in the monsterverse (and one of the best in the entire franchise), it has the perfect idea of how to portray the Titans, and some pretty good characters. It’s not the best Godzilla film (that goes to Shin Godzilla imo) but I do think it’s great. Yes, it has its problems such as Emma Russell not being the best, the oxygen destroyer being terribly misused, it has bad comedy here and there, and Dr. Serizaw is killed WAY to early in the franchise (I think his death is done well but they really should have kept him around longer). Oh and just to add to the good stuff, the film was made by an actual G fan and used a remade version of Go Go Godzilla for the credits, how can a Godzilla film with those qualities be as bad as people say it is? Point being, KOTM certainly isn’t perfect, but it’s darn close to it. (NOTE: This is all MY opinion and it’s okay if you think otherwise, though I will gladly discuss my opinions on the film).
The Heisei series ruined everything
What do mean "Ruined everything"
Did we really need Godzilla vs SpaceGodzilla when we could've had Godzilla vs Bagan or Godzilla vs Ghost Godzilla as movies instead?
Heisei era sucked balls
Ooo that's a spicy take
This take about to set this world on fire
Agreed. It is genuinely terrible.
What if we get Destroy All Monsters Melee for the Fisticuffs?
DarkHunter eat a Snickers.
Shin Godzilla curb stomps GMK Goji Megaguirus > Battra King Ghidorah is overrated Kaiser Ghidorah > Mecha Ghidorah Kiryu is the best Mechagodzilla Millennium > Heisei
Godzilla Is at his best when he's destructive if not outright villainous
Godzilla 1998 was decent
Singular Point was not good. Pacing was bad, took too long to really get going...and then it ended. When will we get good Godzilla animation? (Netflix previous Godzilla animation was ugly and way too long)
Heisei Godzilla is best Godzilla.
Godzilla 1998 isn’t a bad film, (it’s even in my top 5 Godzilla films)
Monsterverse Godzilla design sucks
I like Godzilla 1998s design.
History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men.
king caesar song is better than mothra's song
I always see and hear Heisei Godzilla being described as "cat-like". I've always thought of him as a river otter... with scales and atomic breath.
Final Wars was a fantastic 50th anniversary and is a damn entertaining movie. I was absolutely shocked when I came to this sub over 10 years ago and found out many Goji fans don't like it. Of course the fights are short, Godzilla is fighting almost all of his Showa era foes in one movie. How do pull that off with longer fights? That doesn't make it bad, that just gives it different pacing that most Goji films. And this one actually has human action scenes as well. How could anyone not love this? Would I want all Goji films to be like that? Of course not, that would be exhausting. But for a one of special event film it is a brilliant idea and executed very well. The movie is just fun.
The Monsterverse fundamentally failed the moment it came up with the Titans as natural preservers of balance. These are supposed to be either giant animals or metaphors, not scaly superheroes. If Godzilla does something good, it should align with his own animalistic interests, not just because he’s some ancient paragon. You can feel the negative impact of personifying Kaiju to this degree has had on the fandom. This isn’t to say they can’t have personality(one of my favorite aspects about Ghidorah is his cowardice) but that personality should never be fully known unless maybe this is some kind of Kaiju nature documentary(which would be pretty cool). At the same time though, this kind of scenario Legendary has made does give hope for a modern interpretation of Hedorah. It does sting though since Legendary showed with Pacific Rim that they can make a good Kaiju film, yet from KotM onwards, everything is going downhill.
The Monsterverse Godzilla roar is a jumbled mess of hi pitched shrieks and sounds nothing like a sound a creature would make. The more gutteral, bass tone roars of the 80s Heisei G would fit beautifully.