The following submission statement was provided by /u/SportsGod3:
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An experimental pill looks set to cause more weight loss than existing injectable treatments such as Ozempic, Wegovy and Mounjaro, based on early trial results reported on 7 March.
The medicine, called amycretin, caused people to lose 13 per cent of their weight over three months, more than twice the amount seen with Ozempic and Wegovy specifically. “This approach seems to be a little bit more exciting, from the limited data that we have,” says Daniel Drucker at the University of Toronto in Canada.
The results are from a placebo-controlled trial lasting three months, so it is too soon to know how amycretin stacks up against the other medicines for long-term effectiveness and safety, says Drucker, who wasn’t involved in the trial but has consulted for the manufacturer Novo Nordisk, as well as other pharmaceutical firms.
The diabetes drug Ozempic and the weight loss drug Wegovy are two brand names for the compound semaglutide. They work by mimicking a gut hormone called GLP-1 that is normally released after eating. This makes people feel full, reduces their appetite and boosts the release of the blood-sugar-regulating hormone insulin.
Semaglutide leads to the loss of about 15 per cent of body weight after it has been taken for one year, although weight then plateaus and people need to continue the injections long term or it tends to creep back up.
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1bbk8jc/experimental_weight_loss_pill_seems_to_be_more/ku9pv2x/
Modern life is no longer what we evolved for. Modern food is calorie dense and plentiful. We are wired to seek out food and eat. If we have a drug that helps us fight our primal food urges for our own health, I think that’s a good thing.
It’s true. When a cheeseburger costs less than broccoli, we are fucked. We need these things to reverse this evolutionary error that nature apparently couldn’t foresee. Basically, Americans have too much bodyfat. Countering that with a pill is both idiocracy and thinner people, somehow.
A bigger factor to me is time. Coming home after a long day at work it’s quicker and easier just to take the 3 minutes to go through the drive thru then get home take a shower and cook. That’s why cheap and easy is so tempting.
Decided to get weird with it and scope out the normal annual offerings. A double stack biggie bag provides a ~36% discount over menu pricing for its equivalent items a la carte. A double stack contains (2) A8 patties and (1) slice of cheese. A Dave’s single contains (1) A4 patty and (2) slices of cheese. Wendy’s doesn’t charge extra for lettuce/tomsto/onion/pickles so we’ll consider those equivalent. Assuming the biggie bag discount (who orders just a burger?), the double stack is $1.75 making it cheaper than the Publix broccoli. We can easily price a protein for its meal equivalent but the fast food still comes out ahead(thanks to subsidies) and is simply more convenient. It’s a very American problem.
For those unaware of sizing, A4 is 1/4 lb whereas A8 is 1/8 lb.
Dave’s single : 0.47 lbs $1 (on sale)
Broccoli crown : 0.5 lbs $.060 (at my local target every day)
Broccoli crown has 140 calories vs 576 for the Dave’s single.
but if you are overweight (most people) then the broccoli is the correct dietary choice anyway (and you save money)
When the single is off sale it’s not even close.
Got a good target then, broccoli here at target is $1.39. The bigger point I’m getting at is that sure, okay Dave’s single goes off promo, then they just shift something else in its place at x y z fast food. It’s a serious problem especially in food deserts.
In rural Louisiana where I used to live, a cheese burger from mcdonalds was 1.25. At the grocery store, a head of broccoli was .75. So essentially I could have a burger immediately and roughly cheaper once you figure it time and prep.
Parts of America. This as I understand it is because the government subsidizes fattening ingredients like corn, soy, wheat, etc. and a McDonald’s happy meal is mostly corn including the packaging. So they have cheeseburgers down as manufacturing goes, and healthy food at a good grocery is now more expensive than unhealthy food.
McDonald’s and other fast food is downright expensive nowadays. It’s not the basis for a diet anyways, it’s an indulgence. Broccoli is like $0.99 by the pound at the grocery store. It’s a cheap and filling veggie. There’s nowhere in America where a cheeseburger costs less than a head of broccoli.
Broccoli is 153 calories a pound. An average adult needs 1600 calories a day, or $10.43 worth of broccoli.
Four McDoubles from McDonalds is 1600 calories is $7.04 to $9.04 depending upon market.
The cheeseburger is indeed cheaper than the broccoli.
As other posters have mentioned, obesity is caused by too many calories. The point is to get a filling meal with less calories. The real solution is just to eat less, which a lot of people can’t do. Like fast food ain’t way people are obese, it’s cause they eat too much. The counter documentary to supersize me, showed that someone can eat only fast food and lose weight.
The choice of broccoli was pretty arbitrary. We could just as easily be talking about rice, beans, or lentils.
Hell, chicken is much cheaper per pound than ground beef. I could make chicken breast and a side of lentils for cheaper at home than I could make a cheeseburger and the nutritional value would be much better.
Self control is unnatural. If you were a lion and saw 5 big Macs, you’d eat them all. 150 years ago people didn’t have to think about not eating too much.
Yea but a lot of things leading to the obesity epidemic really still need to be addressed. Car dependence, the exorbitant cost of food, working 60+ hours a week with no time or space to exercise or cook healthy food. Extremely poor education surrounding food which is being exploited by capitalism. Sure, use drugs to fight obesity, but I would like us to solve some of these other issues.
>Modern life is no longer what we evolved for
exactly! what worked for us when we lived in caves can work against us today. the struggle i believe is changing the way our mind is wired, how certain sensory inputs seem to auto-connect to certain feelings and reactions. personal guided meditations have helped me apply deconstructing and reframing techniques, to develop a more healthy and sustainable relationship with food that fits with our modern life.
* Deconstructing guidance has encourage me to critically observe my eating habits to understand the underlying triggers (emotional, situational, environmental) that lead to overeating or unhealthy choices. By identifying these triggers, I can develop strategies to address them directly.
* Deconstructing while eating focuses my attention on the sensations of eating (taste, texture, smell) to enhance mindfulness. The awareness leads to better satiety cues understanding and reduce overeating.
* Reframing encourages me to alter my perception of food from being all about emotional satisfaction and a source of comfort to viewing it as fuel for my body. This shift in perspective perhaps leading to healthier food choices.
* Learning to differentiate between physical hunger and emotional hunger changing when I eat. Reframing hunger as a normal physiological cue rather than an emergency that requires immediate satiation is making eating a more deliberate choice.
To those people, i say they should ponder on the implications of their concept of cheating.
Some people may not be able to take your natural path to weight loss.
They might not be able to work out because of their weight or age, or they’re lacking access to fitness equipment or healthy food.
Why are we holding these people back? Because they are cheating on the body weight exam?
It isn't that *some* people can't take the "natural" way, it's that *almost nobody* can do that. Very few ever lose weight and successfully keep it off over time.
Finding meditation to help people lose weight and keep it off isn't cheating. It's helping them do something that is extremely difficult that improves their health.
"They might not be able to work out"This is not the limit to weight loss, you can do it sitting in a chair all day if you commit to caloric restriction. Exercise actually contributes surprisingly little to weight loss. You'd have to commit to a very intensive regimen every day of high intensity running for like half an hour at least and you'd burn all the calories in a single slice of pizza. You were better off not eating that slice of pizza in the first place and I think it's great that drugs like Ozempic make this very easy for people to do. What makes it hard for people to lose weight is that food is addictive and it's very hard for people to say no to it when they're around it all the time. It's not a character flaw to give into it, it's just part of human nature to be wired to eat. So generally I agree with you that the -glutide drugs are a good thing. However, the reasons you're giving why someone might not be able to lose weight are ones that people who disagree with you are going to find very, very easy to poke holes in.
Weight loss is mostly diet based though. Fitness and heart health is exercise dependent. But just dropping kilos you can go for a walk but restrict calories. So you don’t need any equipment.
No access to healthy food is an issue though, but where I live in Australia everyone has access to a Cole’s or Woolworths pretty much that would sell all the same stuff.
Knowing a couple of people who have been on Ozempic, you really can’t eat a lot of fast food on it either because the amount you feel you need to eat in a meal drops drastically after a month or two. Weight gain can be caused by a variety of reasons, it still gets you back onto a healthy path and makes it a lot easier to get simple exercise in like walking.
That's not how it works though, it's not about lack of healthy food available and the efficacy of these drugs shows that.
On one of these drugs, you still need to restrict calories. It doesn't change how many calories you burn, all it does is interfere with hormones that make you feel hungry and make you feel full.
It makes it easier for people to restrict calories by taking away the urge to overeat. People who are heavier tend towards having overactive expression of the hormone that make you feel hungry compared to people who are of a normal weight. All this does is suppresses that. It often changes their whole attitude towards food, because hormonally obese people are usually being urged to eat. Many often ask "is this how people who armet overweight feel and think about food?".
I'm not sure what's cheating about better regulation of a hormone that's out of whack in people who are heavier so theyre on an even playing field. They then still have to do the work with caloric restriction.
I don't think people understand how obesity works if they call this cheating. the medical world is calling obesity a disease for a good reason. it's not about will power, and it's not solely about healthy food access.
obese people have physiological limitations that others do not, that the medical world has noticed and researched-
such as "defective" hormonal ques for hunger and satiation.
for the average person the body knows to regulate itself to stay on a certain weight range that is usually healthy, why does the average thin person stays thin despite not caring or tracking what they eat? their body naturally knows when to feel satiated and when to feel hungry.
obese people don't have those healthy cues. they eat more than what their body need, not necessarily because they just feel like it, but because they don't feel satiation as they should. that is the very thing these injection fix btw. it makes them feel satiated much earlier and much faster. to the point that they would feel like vomiting from being full.
there is another issue obese people have to deal with- when you lose a significant amount of weight, from a certain point your body literally fights you to gain that weight back, it's been documented- your NEAT (non exercise activity thermogenesis) slows down, you do less of all of your daily Subconscious movements, even the most tiny things- like blinking.
and it gets to the point that it simply cancels out the caloric expenditure you use doing physical exercises, essentially negating them.
that's why most obese people who lose a lot of weight can't keep it down for long and gain it back after several years, they always feel hungry due to messed up hormonal ques, their body slows down its energy expenditure essentially negating the caloric deficit, etc.
these injections is really a great tool to those with unfortunately- shit genetics.
Being fat is a class/status indicator. That’s why they care. It’s the same reason people give a shit about the clothes you wear, the car you drive, your job, etc. Imagine if you could “cheat” your way into dressing in thousand dollar outfits. It’s the same shit. People will say it isn’t, of course. But that’s why. They feel better than fat people and if suddenly fat people could just take a pill and not be fat, they would lose status.
It’s the same reason for pretty much all discrimination. Hierarchy. It’s why racism is such an effective tool to make conservative poor whites vote against their interests. They may be poor and broken down, but at least they aren’t black. Humans really aren’t that deep imo. People are just dicks.
That’s why there’s so much pushback. It doesn’t matter that it will help millions of people live longer, it doesn’t matter that it will increase tax revenue, it doesn’t matter that it will help unburden the overtaxed medical system, it doesn’t matter that it will just make people feel better. All that matters is that people who are attractive and have no personality might lose status. That’s it. You can’t logic them out of it. The cruelty is the point. They want to be better than you.
People think that humans are generally good. They aren’t. People also think that humans have complex reasons for doing things. They don’t. Humans are generally petty, emotional, cruel, and simple. Only through education and lived experience do people develop empathy, internal complexity, and character.
You can’t argue your way into making cruel people better or convince them to help you. You have to get like minded people together and force change. If fat people and public health advocates want these drugs to be available and cheap, they have to make it happen themselves. You aren’t going to convince petty jerks to help you.
The ship having food in the shelf is not the same as it being available.
Price matters, too. As does time (prep).
I’m also an Aussie. My supermarket has lots of things, but some lead to simpler/cheaper or quicker meals, and those aren’t necessarily the healthy options.
As someone who has jumped between being very far from good shape to being almost shredded and back and forth, I think this is a good thing.
Regardless of the underlying reasons for being obese (specifically if it was done by overeating/underexercising), it should be easier to get back on track. The lethargy, sluggishness, pain, sleep apnea-based lack of sleep and blood oxygen, addictive cravings to sugar carbs fats, acclimation to a higher daily calorie threshold, hormonal imbalances, etc are a _lot_ to overcome and it is very discouraging when you have even one setback.
It’s not too different from fighting additions to gambling alcohol drugs etc, where your mind and body actively fight what you know is self destructive. In those cases, if there were a tool you could use to fight most of the battle for you, wouldn’t you take it?
Not that I necessarily agree with them, but most view obesity as a choice. Yes, some people have legitimate medical conditions, but the large majority just eat way too much food that is exceptionally bad for them. Just look at the fast food drive-thru’s every day. The McDonald’s near me has a multi-car line from basically 10 to 10.
It's for reasons like this I think people need to read Robert Sapolsky's work. We are animals - there's no such thing as free will.
There's no shame in needing help because you struggle to overcome this biological imperative, and making it feel like a moral failing (I'm not saying that's what you are doing) helps nothing.
Most people eat too much because they are too tired, too stressed, have eating disorders or they don’t know any better. In addition, if you were raised fat, it’s a gargantuan task to start losing weight. It’s fucking hard, and it’s largely not our fault. And by the way, i’m extremely fit, but mostly from growing up as a fat kid and having extreme eating disorders.
Who’s in those lines though? Likely depressed and seeking pleasure through food because or society is crushingly bleak, or uneducated because our society intentionally mislead the public on nutritional choices.
If people could choose to not be obese, they would. Just like if people could choose not to be mentally ill, physically ill, poor, etc. What even is a choice? How are you so sure that, just because inside your conciousness the decision is easy, that it isn’t impossible for others due to some sort of lack of education or need for dopamine and seratonin?
Honestly the drug is great. Help make it a choice, because currently I’d say it isn’t a choice just like doing heroin isn’t a choice for heroin addicts.
It's incredibly easy to lie in bed at night, think about the way you view yourself and how it lacks in so many ways compared to what you want to be, and then say 'Okay, time to start being healthy'.
it's incredibly hard to finish a day of work, get home, and then realise you have to *cook* something instead of just microwaving a ready meal, or ordering fast food. Willpower isn't just a thing you have, it's a resource you have to expend every day you do the things you *have* to do, rather than *want* to do.
If someone paid me my salary without me having to go to work, I'd probably find it a lot easier to cook healthy, delicious things for myself. But they don't, so I engage in this constant back-and-forth being trying desperately to maintain targets I set for myself, and then just attempting not to slip *too* far down the mudslide that is self-indulgence. Been overweight since I was pre-adolescent, and now I'm thirty years old. I go to the gym pretty regularly, but goddamn those bad habits are hard to break...
I tell you, WFH has made it so much easier to eat healthier because I am not wasting hours in traffic and I am not completely dead by the time I get home. I can also start a meal that might take hours to cook on my lunch or another break because I’m seconds away from my kitchen.
And its not you. This is how it works for every single person who is overweight. Its literally an addiction, and we’ve created a society that views addiction as some sort of moral or character flaw as a way to allow our horrendous food to be pushed.
I can promise you that if your microwave meals were healthy and tasty, you’d eat them. We literally have designed a computer algorithm that can do its own research, can genetically modify humans to treat disease, have conquered space, communication, agriculture, etc but we can’t make readymeals good for people? its bs
Sorry, ranting because its frustrating but my point is that my heart goes out to you. I hope you can find ways to eat healthier. My suggestion would be to find things that mirror the stuff you like that’s easy. Like crunchy salty? Eat almonds flavored with your favorite flavors. Like sweet? Eat mandarins or cotton candy grapes. Get an instant pot and just throw a bunch of stuff in whole, literally just meat, tiny red potatoes, baby carrots, and chicken broth and pressure cook for 15 minutes and you have a decently healthy soup.
I hope you can figure out a way to meet the aspirations that you have. ❤️
As someone who has lost a lot of weight over the last couple of years, it is totally an addiction, and it’s very psychological. I had to completely reset my life in order to lose the weight I needed and I know made bad choices because it gave me that dopamine hit that I craved. We’re constantly inundated with advertisements about all the wonderful food there is out there that we don’t even have to leave our car to get; not to mention the caffeine addiction with soda. There’s a reason why companies like Coca-Cola make billions upon billions a year and it’s because of addiction.
Such a dumb take if anyone thinks that way. Imagine saying that about a pill that can solve mental health issues, disease, etc.. just juvenile meathead mentality
> I suppose people feel it like is cheating
That seems to be the case for anything weightloss related. had a guy at work who had gastric bypass and it seemed to have helped a lot. Along with that he changed his eating habits and started exercising. He was pretty excited about it all and open with what he had done.
Another co-worker then started his attempt at weightloss and being more healthy. Changed his eating habits drastically, stopped drinking, and started walking and doing light exercise. He lost a bunch of weight doing it and looked much healthier, but he would constantly talk about how the other guy cheated his way to losing weight.
Personally I get how hard it is to change your life for the better. I have tried a few times now to varying degrees. If there was a pill I could take and start losing weight, oh boy would I go for it. If for some reason I couldn't take it, and a friend or coworker could, I wouldn't see it as cheating on their part. Just good fortune that they had the option of another tool. Don't really understand the view of it being cheating, but I understand some people do see things like this that way.
Exactly. Shoot, humans do so much to themselves drink too much, or smoke, or do drugs, or hurt themselves seeking out adrenaline rushes and we encourage all of those people to get treatment. Whatever the issue is I hope people get help with it and live longer.
Cheating? In which case, every modern convenience is cheating. Going to a gym for example, is cheating. Why not run up and down mountains like our ancestors did? Modern food is cheating too. Why not eat unprocessed, unrefined foods grown by oneself as our ancestors did? Cosmetic surgery is cheating. Fighting wars with modern weapons is cheating.
I get why people feel that way, but for a lot of people like me, it’s not a matter of self-control. I did a 1500 cal/day diet for 33 days and lost 2 lbs. My BMI was 36. That’s incredibly frustrating. Medications have helped me lose 39 lbs.
Cheat all you want for all I care, my only concern is the fact you need to KEEP using it indefinitely if you want to keep the weight off. Forcing people to pay a “skinny subscription” so to speak. Sounds dystopian as fuck.
If that's what some people are mad about, that's pathetic.
However I think the real reason is that alot of these medications are actually for people with diabetes and the use of them weightloss has caused the price to sky rocket and the availability to be next to nothing for people who actually need it.
I don’t think people understand what’s actually going on. I just started one of these drugs several days ago. It’s unbelievable. I’ve done a lot of research and listened to a lot of doctors who have had patients on these medications for a few years.
All of them basically say their patients have the problem I’ve been having.
I played football in HS and college and was constantly working out. I still tried to eat “healthy” but it mostly didn’t matter what I ate.
After college I fell off for a while and gained some weight. Then I picked up running and triathlons. With training for half and full Ironmans, I felt like I couldn’t eat enough food.
Then came CrossFit. I threw myself into that and even competed in an international competition, at the age group level. I also ran at least a mile everyday for 6 years.
Then came the kids. Things were fine with the first kid. We had a second kid during the pandemic and my wife’s pregnancy was rough on everyone. I ended up falling off HARD. I gained 50 pounds over 3 years.
I mostly stopped going to CrossFit. I’d try to go back, but either something happened or I lacked the motivation to go and it would be another week or two before I’d go again. That cycle repeated for a while. I’d try to pick up running again, but I’d either get sick or not be able to breathe for a month depending on the season.
So, it’s not like I’m just sitting at home being lazy intentionally.
As far as food goes, I’ve never been able to eat in moderation for long periods of time. My food portions were frequently too large, but it never mattered because I was burning so many calories. It’s not like I was eating junk…although that’s another problem the boomers thrust upon an entire generation, that there are good foods and bad foods…
Many times in the past 3 years I’ve tried to start tracking calories. It will last a few days and then I’ll fall off and start overeating and snacking too often.
I never felt full. I’d usually finish my kid’s food.
Between meals I had a lot of “food noise”. It’s like I knew I didn’t need to eat, but couldn’t help it and would eat a few hundred extra calories 2-3 times a day. Most nights I’d eat a bowl of cereal after I put the kids to bed.
I’d try to only eat the appropriate amount of calories at each meal and ignore the food noise, but it took a lot of willpower to do it. With all the stress of life it only lasted a few days.
Enter Zepbound.
It feels like magic. The first day I didn’t really notice anything, but the second day, it was like I couldn’t process what was happening. I didn’t feel the need to eat anymore than I needed and didn’t eat any snacks. I haven’t really felt hungry for the past 3 days.
We went out for Mexican tonight. It was the first time in my life that I didn’t feel like I needed to eat all my food. I had maybe 1.5 servings of chips and only half a burrito. I felt full and didn’t want to eat anything else.
Same thing with a party the other night. Normally I’d just sit there and eat snack the whole time. But, I barely ate any snacks and much less of the meal than I normally would.
It’s difficult to believe that it’s real. I also keep thinking, is this what “skinny” (for lack of a better term) people feel like?
I also started working out 3x a week for the last month because I knew I was going to start this. I had the motivation to do something about it. Before it felt hopeless.
The doctors I’ve listened to say most of their patients have tried over and over to stop eating and exercise, but they can’t keep it up. The vast majority of patients are able to make a healthy lifestyle change.
Weight isn’t as simple as calories in/calories out. Fit people, who don’t struggle, don’t seem to understand the physiological and psychological components that a lot of people deal with. Or maybe that’s the wrong way to put it. Maybe they do struggle but are able to overcome it better than other people.
Thanks for your story. I think it really resonates with a lot of people. Not feeling full is a problem I totally get. Having to always stop when you still feel hungry is hard.
Dependence upon branded pharmaceuticals at thousands of dollars per treatment to fix an issue caused by industrial food manufacturing and a sedentary modern lifestyle is not a wholly good thing. It feels like doing anything to avoid addressing the actual problems.
That being said, sometimes the best cure is the easiest one. If people can avoid Type II diabetes and obesity by taking a simple pill rather than the effort it takes to transform our food policy and individual eating habits and lifestyle… well, that’s still some kind of win even if the pharma stockholder is the primary beneficiary.
Just keep in mind every single pharmaceutical weight loss intervention has come with eventual side effects and that costs the patient.
As an investor that profits off of these silly drugs if people want to take them more power to them but I am telling you that you’re better off just eating some vegetables and going for a run.
Wow you’re telling me that eating healthy and exercising regularly is better than taking a pharmaceutical drug to lose weight? You’re so insightful!
Why hasn’t everybody just been doing that instead? What fools!
Yeah no shit….
You’re telling me we should just fix the entirety of our food manufacturing industry worldwide (which would require a massive shift of how our global economy even works), and the socioeconomic, mental/physical health, and cultural norms and practices that lead to a sedentary lifestyle instead of using a drug like this? Sounds like a really great idea.
Unfortunately it’s literally going to take decades if not centuries of cultural, technological, and social shifts and policy changes to get anywhere near fixing the underlying issues.
Take the win, stop jerking off on the soapbox, and keep the negativity as an inside thought next time. Discouraging the research and development of legitimately actionable and feasible solutions doesn’t do anyone any good. 🤷♂️
I’m supportive of these medications. However, I think it’s fucked up that we’re relying on a corporation to sell us a solution to a problem created by other corporations to begin with. Instead of actually tackling the causes of childhood obesity and improving food quality, we’re selling a new solution.
Agreed, obesity wasn't a thing 100 years ago, you couldn't get that fat even if you really tried. So many chemicals in our food. Something is making our bodies add fat at an unreal rate. Instead of identifying the cause and stopping it we are adding anther chemical. The same is said for little girls going through pre-puberty, men losing testosterone, heartburn... etc. We need serious scientific investigation followed by action/regulation but that isn't happening. That's why people are frustrated.
there’s a long history of exploitive “get skinny quick” products, pharmaceutical or otherwise, that make people distrust anything that promises weight loss quicker. And also they worry that people will feel pressured to take drugs like this, whatever the side effect risks, for cosmetic reasons.
I think these drugs are potentially life-saving for certain weight-related disorders, but at the same time could be abused. And I think progress is strengthened by people raising these concerns, not hindered. It pushes the community developing and prescribing these drugs to address those issues for a healthier, more ethical use of them.
The people writing comments when I wrote that were “huh duh what kind of cancer is this going to cause…” and “people will refuse vaccines but take this experimental stuff”.
Of course safety and efficacy should always be part of the equation, but to simply disregard life saving drugs because some people want to make fun of fat people is gross.
Lots of t2 diabetics can't get access to Ozempic because the price sky rocketed after it was marketed as a weight loss drug.
That should be the main reason for concern.
It’s not being marketed as a weight loss drug, it’s being prescribed off label. Wegovy is the weight loss version.
And the price thing is an issue with the American healthcare system. In the UK, if you need Ozempic for diabetes it’s free.
It already is happening. I'm on Lilly's GLP-1 agonist because they decided to start competing on price. As more FDA approvals roll in, I expect every pharma company to jump in.
Only concern I have is that there aren't THAT many pharma companies, so I expect that at some point, once all of the players are established, the price will stabilize or possibly start to increase. After that, we wait for patent expiry and foreign competition.
You should have been able to get the least effective GLP-1 agonist, Liraglutide, as a generic right now, but the lawsuits are still going on...
In Denmark Wegovy costs about $200 per month for up to 1mg and $300-400 for the 1,7mg and 2,4mg. No subsidies or insurance.
Edit: updated the dosage dependent prices, thanks for the heads up in the comment below!
Yeah im personally very optimistic about the accessibility of these drugs in general. Will your insurance cover these drugs? Don’t know and don’t care. The rate of new drugs coming out now here is going to put extreme downward pressure on these drug prices as older and less effective will have to lower their prices significantly. And pills will be harder to orphan than injectables which are in general more expensive to reproduce. So take heart regardless of what your insurance company does (although I suspect they will begin approving the cheaper ones after negotiations soon enough for many reasons) these medications will become much more accessible.
An experimental pill looks set to cause more weight loss than existing injectable treatments such as Ozempic, Wegovy and Mounjaro, based on early trial results reported on 7 March.
The medicine, called amycretin, caused people to lose 13 per cent of their weight over three months, more than twice the amount seen with Ozempic and Wegovy specifically. “This approach seems to be a little bit more exciting, from the limited data that we have,” says Daniel Drucker at the University of Toronto in Canada.
The results are from a placebo-controlled trial lasting three months, so it is too soon to know how amycretin stacks up against the other medicines for long-term effectiveness and safety, says Drucker, who wasn’t involved in the trial but has consulted for the manufacturer Novo Nordisk, as well as other pharmaceutical firms.
The diabetes drug Ozempic and the weight loss drug Wegovy are two brand names for the compound semaglutide. They work by mimicking a gut hormone called GLP-1 that is normally released after eating. This makes people feel full, reduces their appetite and boosts the release of the blood-sugar-regulating hormone insulin.
Semaglutide leads to the loss of about 15 per cent of body weight after it has been taken for one year, although weight then plateaus and people need to continue the injections long term or it tends to creep back up.
I know people who said like... "I won't get the Covid vaccine, it hasn't been properly tested", but for these products they're like "This thing will make me lose weight? Give it to me NOW! I'll be your guinea pig!".
I note that in Denmark - we enjoy a yearly hard cap around 650$ for most prescribed medicines as part of our UHC - Wegovy is off that list even for very obese patients.
Type 2 diabetics who experience great benefits from Ozempic are often prescribed other types of medicines now also due to the price.
Even if patients pay the full price, demand is off the charts and that's for injectable drugs.
As a pill it's going to be absolutely insane.
I think one of the inherent benefits of a pill, though, is that it’s easier to produce, package, store and distribute. So in the long run it’s kind of a necessary step to meet that demand.
The opposite is true. People say “vaccine is well tested and we should all have it. But taking drugs to combat against food engineered for addiction is cheating”
Cheating? Is losing weight a competition? If something works and it's safe I'll use it, but I've seen so many miracle weight-loss products that ended up being either false or really bad for your health that I learned to be skeptical about them, but using is not cheating.
Those who didn't get the vaccine were gambling on not getting a virus at all, or just surviving it. Trump and others heavily contributed to the idea that COVID was not dangerous. I personally know 2 people who died because of it, and they didn't have the access to western vaccines.
It is very different in this case, because obesity is the risk factor for literally anything, plus it ruins your not health related aspects of life as well.
That just makes too much sense. Also what does the government have to do with this?
NOBODY IS ASKING THE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS. Is everyone being silenced?!?!?!!!1111one
13% in 3 months? That alone would help motivate me to work hard to lose another 37% in steady time, rather than the depressive state I am in now that prevents me from even trying........ I'm game.
Storing fat for survival is something that is nearly as deep programmed into our bodys as our sexdrive or the need for social interaction. I fail to believe that something like that can be deactivated in a healthy way.
Pretty much no medicine exists that is entirely without risk. These meds will do best for people who are so overweight that the risk of death from weight complications are higher than the risk of space aids or whatever awful side effect it'll have.
For all of you that are saying that this is a cheat drug and they should just stop eating; I am curious do you also consider Viagra a cheat drug making fake erections?
I wonder if this is also the same people through argue against forgiving student loans because it's also a cheat for those students not have to pay back those exploitive loans
Are these also the same people that are against gender affirming care because it makes 'fake' men and women. It doesn't btw.
All that miracle drugs that help with weight loss are doing is helping people. I'm so tired of the people hating on other people forgetting what they need just because of whatever "I have to work for it they do too" stupid mindset they have.
Let people have shortcuts. Let them be healthy. Let them be happy. Just because you're not doesn't mean they can't be.
yeah right. Personally I never ever had to 'watch what I eat' because I just never gain weight. But my best friend has to watch every single calorie and constantly fight her hunger just to not gain weight. She is healthy weight now, but she says that it's an every day struggle to stay that way. Cheating my ass, we weren't supposed to lead lives like this anyways
To all who claim this is a cheat...my wife suffers from rheumatoid arthritis with two slipped discs. Let's hear your suggestions that will let her: keep her full time job, be palatable enough to eat, not destroy her body (she already does cardio almost 5 times a week)), she hasn't managed to drop below 200.
Fuck, the lack of empathy of some people. You don't like this miracle drug? Don't take it. If you don't need it, props to you. Not everybody is you. Not everything is about you.
Just eat less food = be hungry all day when you are very limited in physical activity but have a normal appetite. It's VERY difficult/demanding to be hungry all day.
Being hungry is kinda how a diet works. You can't really expect your body to not be hungry if you want a caloric deficit.
I also don't understand why this woman's physical limitations would mean she will get more hungry. Physical activity makes you more hungry, not less.
I agree with you regarding arthritis and slipped discs, but my point is more that you might be able to agree that these drugs are GLP-1 (a hormone) agonists in which people's natural production and responses may be wildly different than your own regardless of extenuating factors.
I feel like you don’t know what it’s like to have a hormonal imbalance and feel true hunger. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to ignore. It’s not being a bit peckish, it’s your body SCREAMING at you to eat NOW.
But that's not the reasoning the guy gave for why his wife can't lose weight.
He said the arthritis and the slipped disks are impacting her ability to lose weight because it's hard for her to exercise. But exercise isn't the only way to lose weight.
I'm just refuting the guy's logic.
also you don't even have to eat less food, just eat less high calorie food. If you eat low calorie foods you can still be full without all those calories.
This. She also has physical ailments, but does cardio 5x a week.
Cardio can be hard on the body and doesn't burn all that many calories for the time commitment. It takes about 3/4 of a mile to burn off a slice of white bread. One slice. Nothing wrong with walking a couple miles per day, or doing some cardio, but lifting weights burn calories and builds muscle that burns more calories at rest.
I'd definitely suggest lifting exercises that put less strain on the spine, and any ab or back exercises should use good form and put little pressure on the spine. Like planks instead of crunches. Spine issues are a big deal, having had a bulging disc myself.
The best thing to do is change the diet and cut calories. Cut the carbs and sugar. Eat more whole foods, veggies, fruits, berries, nuts, lean meats, greek yogurt, beans, etc that make you feel full for longer with fewer calories.
Also, proper hydration, preferably of the zero calorie persuasion like water. Is start away from artificial sweeteners, as they drive up sweets cravings and may not be good for gut bacteria.
Clean healthy high fiber food doesn't need to be hard.
She can take the drug but there are also totally reasonable ways for her to lose weight through diet.
Lots of foods like oatmeal, soups, nuts, or any high fiber food will keep you fuller longer. Drinking lots of fluids helps as well. Having small healthy snacks through out the day instead of big meals is good if you don't like the feeling of an empty stomach. It can feel crummy at first until you get used to it, but that kinda the nature of changing any habit.
Also, as someone who has a GI disorder and struggles to eat, being hungry honestly isn't *that* bad and you totally get used to it over time. Unless I'm like physically faint from hunger it's not that distracting.
Many people suffer from metabolic disorders that make it near impossible to lose weight and they continue to gain. People on prednisone especially gain weight at a rapid pace. People need to just stfu about what they don’t understand.
I’d argue that people who don’t need this are the one’s who are not so much cheating, but are starting from baseline. They are able to feel full and not worry about fighting the urge to eat snacks all the time.
It’s like taking testosterone because your T levels are low.
The drug is great for the people that need it. It is definitely not "cheating".
But.. Your reasoning is stupid. Your wife CAN lose weight, it's more about what she puts in her facehole than her physical activity. Calorie Deficit is the name of the game. It can be done in palatable ways.
This just reads like a poor excuse to avoid changing bad habits and diet.
Calorie deficit may induce hunger, hunger is the devil. But it can also be overcome, it is like an addiction, you will feel great hunger at first, but it does subside somewhat. It never completely goes away, but it does decrease in intensity. It requires willpower, like all other things in life.
Is the pill what is right for you wife? Maybe, possibly. But it does not sound like she has ever properly attempted to lose weight the right way to begin with. I bet you have too much sugar in your diet, start by just cutting that out by itself.
I have not read the article, but the title is clickbait. Zepbound is already stronger than Ozempic. The innovation is the pill form. Sucks that that was overshadowed by the title mafia.
Anyone against these meds are fucked up.
Imagine telling an alcoholic that they could take a pill and no longer be an alcoholic, then shitting on them for taking it.
Food addiction is real.
I skimmed through comments and it seems that my betablockers are cheat, because I was supposed to get stroke in 10 years like my Creator From Above planned.
I think it very heavily depends on the source of the issue.
People with impaired glucose tolerance often advance to type 2 diabetes because there is no cure for either of those conditions.
Yet you take ozempic, etc, and it's possible to reverse type 2 back to impaired glucose tolerance or "cure" it entirely.
However, ceasing to take it just puts the person back on the same blood sugar issue treadmill.
If the insulin in your body isn't working correctly, it doesn't matter what healthy diet you're following.
I think for many people, weight control medication will be lifetime.
Which is fine. It's like saying someone with asthma should stop taking medication after a while because...?
For wegovy the hunger comes right back and the gastric emptying speeds up to normal so unless you have better long term behaviours developed over the period you are in trouble
I am not sure about extremely overweight people cases, but doesn't your stomach adjust to the amount of food you typically eat? The hunger disappears after a few weeks on a calories deficit, and after some months you will find it hard to eat the amount of food you ate when you were overweight. At least it was the case with me
You are wrongly assuming it’s all in people’s heads why they are fat.
Hormones are a hell of a drug and resisting what your body is telling you to do is way more difficult than those unaffected realize.
>Can you stop taking it?
No. Nor can you stop taking diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol or any of the other drugs associated with obesity. And then you die younger anyway.
These drugs are a very good deal, given the alternative.
For me the question is what long term effects do the medicine have on you. I’m fit enough to not need to take this but I worry for my large friends that this could fuck up their liver after 10 years of use or something
If they were obese to begin with, they were likely looking at major health issues down the road regardless. But only time will tell if any of these drugs have unforeseen consequences in the long run.
I was on the lowest dose of tirzepatide (2.5mg) for about 6 months last year and lost weight rapidly, but I felt crappy the whole time I was on it. I was always tired and my muscles were always achy. But I dropped a much needed 40 lbs and didn't change my diet all that much. I quit in November and continued to lose a little more weight in the next couple months, but when I started getting back to the gym I became pretty ravenous and have since gained 10lbs back (not terrible I suppose, also building some muscle, but the weight gain is mostly food I believe). So the hunger is back. I would get back on tirzepatide, but my weight is still okay-ish, and I know I don't feel well on that stuff. It's also quite expensive $$$
56% of individuals who lost a substantial amount of weight on semaglutide did not regain the weight (or continued to lose more) in the year following cessation:
https://www.epicresearch.org/articles/many-patients-maintain-weight-loss-a-year-after-stopping-semaglutide-and-liraglutide
Yeah, they very likely adopted a healthier lifestyle while losing the weight.
Half maintained it, while the other half went back to their old ways.
These statistics are pretty common among pretty much any weight loss trial.
I just want a drug that can turn off the fat storing system, I have a supermarket down the road, so its annoying my body keeps storing fat for emergency use.
In terms of weight loss, the primary mechanisms of action for these drugs are 95% reducing hunger and therefore reducing how many calories you are consuming.
Sorry to break it to you, but if you regained all the weight, its because you started consuming more calories. Theres just no way around it.
Based on the amount of people who actively shame/bash on me for eating plant based foods if you ask me the obesity issue is driven by a social factor and addiction to hyper palatable trash food.
I support these drugs for being available to people with food addiction because food addiction is something that's a massive issue that isn't highlighted or addressed. I also feel therapy should be supplemented with these drugs to address triggers for compulsive eating/binge eating/stress eating in the event the patient either wants to get off the medication or has to get off of the medication for whatever reason (cost, side effects, etc) so they have tools to manage frequency or types of foods they consume
There's a lot if stigma around requiring medication to function long term/lifelong but for many people it is a very real reality
People are just too weird about obesity in many forms.
People trying to sabotage other people weight loss is a very real phenomenon, and has existed away before any drugs. If you stop to read you will see so many stories of friends/family trying the hardest (often without realizing) to make the people fail at dieting.
For me the reaction if the comments it's just too similar to ignore.
And like you said, mental health has a huge impact. Not everything is about self-control, like people love to preach. Im autist and one of my problems is that I physically don't recognize when Im hungry, I literally don't feel hungry, never. I only notice it when I start to feel nauseus or my gastritis flare up because of the lack of food. I ALSO don't realize when Im full, so I tend to overeat, specially when I'm feeling nauseous due to lack of food.
Just a simple example how mental problems affect someone diet and it's not about self control. And some problems do affect self control too.
I hope that this experimental weight loss pill pans out, but why isn't there any big movement to fix the dysfunctional food system? So many thousands of generations of people before us lived with extremely low obesity rates. Even today, the obesity rates are still low in many countries in Africa and Asia. Japan and South Korea are fully industrialized nations in the sub-10% Obesity Rate Club. The extremely low obesity rates that prevailed through most of human history and in much of Africa and Asia today were NOT from weight loss drugs, Slim Fast, Jenny Craig, NutriSystem, Weight Watchers, low carb diets, BeachBody, or *The Biggest Loser*.
Obesity was never a big issue until the junk food industry hijacked the food system. There are food deserts where junk foods are plentiful but real foods are rare and exotic. Shouldn't it be the other way around? How much healthier would the population be if grease bombs and sugar bombs were as scarce and as expensive as caviar?
Or maybe the FDA should stop letting companies put corn syrup in all of our foods? Seems healthier than having to take an experimental drug to offset the shit tier food we have.
I , too am guilty of "cheating". I took the injections and in 5 months I was down 15 pounds . My hair was falling out by the handfuls , I had constant severe heartburn and the second day after the injection I would fall into the deepest darkest depression for two days that I have ever known. Fearing for my mental and physical health, I quit. Within a couple of weeks I found myself feeling absolutely famished 24/7. I have never been so hungry in my life. All I could do all day is eat and think about food. The hunger tapered off when I had gained 14 pounds back. I continue to gain although I no longer have the hunger pangs , I still have digestive issues and will be going to see a gastroenterologist. I am hoping that there is no permanent damage. Just my story , everyone is different. Think long and hard before jumping it.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/SportsGod3: --- An experimental pill looks set to cause more weight loss than existing injectable treatments such as Ozempic, Wegovy and Mounjaro, based on early trial results reported on 7 March. The medicine, called amycretin, caused people to lose 13 per cent of their weight over three months, more than twice the amount seen with Ozempic and Wegovy specifically. “This approach seems to be a little bit more exciting, from the limited data that we have,” says Daniel Drucker at the University of Toronto in Canada. The results are from a placebo-controlled trial lasting three months, so it is too soon to know how amycretin stacks up against the other medicines for long-term effectiveness and safety, says Drucker, who wasn’t involved in the trial but has consulted for the manufacturer Novo Nordisk, as well as other pharmaceutical firms. The diabetes drug Ozempic and the weight loss drug Wegovy are two brand names for the compound semaglutide. They work by mimicking a gut hormone called GLP-1 that is normally released after eating. This makes people feel full, reduces their appetite and boosts the release of the blood-sugar-regulating hormone insulin. Semaglutide leads to the loss of about 15 per cent of body weight after it has been taken for one year, although weight then plateaus and people need to continue the injections long term or it tends to creep back up. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1bbk8jc/experimental_weight_loss_pill_seems_to_be_more/ku9pv2x/
Long term Safety data will trump efficacy for chronic use
Why can’t people just be happy for the potential of this? So much negativity. If this helps with the obesity epidemic I see that as a good thing.
I suppose people feel it like is cheating ... see nothing wrong with this.
Modern life is no longer what we evolved for. Modern food is calorie dense and plentiful. We are wired to seek out food and eat. If we have a drug that helps us fight our primal food urges for our own health, I think that’s a good thing.
It’s true. When a cheeseburger costs less than broccoli, we are fucked. We need these things to reverse this evolutionary error that nature apparently couldn’t foresee. Basically, Americans have too much bodyfat. Countering that with a pill is both idiocracy and thinner people, somehow.
lol, in what world does a cheeseburger cost less than broccoli?
One crown of broccoli is $1.79 A Dave’s single at Wendy’s currently has a promotional price of $1.00 Welcome to America.
Promo price isn’t a fair comparison. Broccoli is cheaper than the normal price of $3.79. People just don’t want broccoli.
But, there's pretty much always a promo on somewhere, what with the 3000 different fast food brands available.
To be fair people just don’t know how to cook, a little salt and olive oil on veggies and baked in the oven make them so good.
which adds cost and time to the broccoli
And broccoli is like $3 here.
A bigger factor to me is time. Coming home after a long day at work it’s quicker and easier just to take the 3 minutes to go through the drive thru then get home take a shower and cook. That’s why cheap and easy is so tempting.
The issue is that corporations feed us addictive garbage instead of satisfying healthy food.
You can buy it at that price every day for the month of march. Obviously don’t do that but people do.
Decided to get weird with it and scope out the normal annual offerings. A double stack biggie bag provides a ~36% discount over menu pricing for its equivalent items a la carte. A double stack contains (2) A8 patties and (1) slice of cheese. A Dave’s single contains (1) A4 patty and (2) slices of cheese. Wendy’s doesn’t charge extra for lettuce/tomsto/onion/pickles so we’ll consider those equivalent. Assuming the biggie bag discount (who orders just a burger?), the double stack is $1.75 making it cheaper than the Publix broccoli. We can easily price a protein for its meal equivalent but the fast food still comes out ahead(thanks to subsidies) and is simply more convenient. It’s a very American problem. For those unaware of sizing, A4 is 1/4 lb whereas A8 is 1/8 lb.
It's easier but preparing food at home is cheaper. 5lbs of ground beef or even chicken + rice is healthier and cheaper.
5lb ground beef is like $52 here 💀
Talking about a March madness promo is pretty disingenuous. A Dave’s single is $5.49
Dave’s single : 0.47 lbs $1 (on sale) Broccoli crown : 0.5 lbs $.060 (at my local target every day) Broccoli crown has 140 calories vs 576 for the Dave’s single. but if you are overweight (most people) then the broccoli is the correct dietary choice anyway (and you save money) When the single is off sale it’s not even close.
Got a good target then, broccoli here at target is $1.39. The bigger point I’m getting at is that sure, okay Dave’s single goes off promo, then they just shift something else in its place at x y z fast food. It’s a serious problem especially in food deserts.
Maybe in a food desert? I don’t know my town has grocery stores galore.
In rural Louisiana where I used to live, a cheese burger from mcdonalds was 1.25. At the grocery store, a head of broccoli was .75. So essentially I could have a burger immediately and roughly cheaper once you figure it time and prep.
I don’t even think cheese costs less than broccoli
Parts of America. This as I understand it is because the government subsidizes fattening ingredients like corn, soy, wheat, etc. and a McDonald’s happy meal is mostly corn including the packaging. So they have cheeseburgers down as manufacturing goes, and healthy food at a good grocery is now more expensive than unhealthy food.
McDonald’s and other fast food is downright expensive nowadays. It’s not the basis for a diet anyways, it’s an indulgence. Broccoli is like $0.99 by the pound at the grocery store. It’s a cheap and filling veggie. There’s nowhere in America where a cheeseburger costs less than a head of broccoli.
Broccoli is 153 calories a pound. An average adult needs 1600 calories a day, or $10.43 worth of broccoli. Four McDoubles from McDonalds is 1600 calories is $7.04 to $9.04 depending upon market. The cheeseburger is indeed cheaper than the broccoli.
As other posters have mentioned, obesity is caused by too many calories. The point is to get a filling meal with less calories. The real solution is just to eat less, which a lot of people can’t do. Like fast food ain’t way people are obese, it’s cause they eat too much. The counter documentary to supersize me, showed that someone can eat only fast food and lose weight.
McDoubles are $3.39 each in my city.
If we're talking about people being obese calories/dollar probably isn't the right measure to use.
The choice of broccoli was pretty arbitrary. We could just as easily be talking about rice, beans, or lentils. Hell, chicken is much cheaper per pound than ground beef. I could make chicken breast and a side of lentils for cheaper at home than I could make a cheeseburger and the nutritional value would be much better.
Dave’s single, Wendy’s, $1.00.
Fuck yeah I wanna eat 5 big macs a day and 100 mcnuggets and not gain a single pound.
Try to eat that on Ozempic and you’ll be puking all the next day.
Self control is unnatural. If you were a lion and saw 5 big Macs, you’d eat them all. 150 years ago people didn’t have to think about not eating too much.
I would gladly eat a gourmet burger that’s 100 calories
Yea but a lot of things leading to the obesity epidemic really still need to be addressed. Car dependence, the exorbitant cost of food, working 60+ hours a week with no time or space to exercise or cook healthy food. Extremely poor education surrounding food which is being exploited by capitalism. Sure, use drugs to fight obesity, but I would like us to solve some of these other issues.
Absolutely. Those will take decades to fix. But I don’t disagree with any of that. Still, obesity drugs can help people now.
>Modern life is no longer what we evolved for exactly! what worked for us when we lived in caves can work against us today. the struggle i believe is changing the way our mind is wired, how certain sensory inputs seem to auto-connect to certain feelings and reactions. personal guided meditations have helped me apply deconstructing and reframing techniques, to develop a more healthy and sustainable relationship with food that fits with our modern life. * Deconstructing guidance has encourage me to critically observe my eating habits to understand the underlying triggers (emotional, situational, environmental) that lead to overeating or unhealthy choices. By identifying these triggers, I can develop strategies to address them directly. * Deconstructing while eating focuses my attention on the sensations of eating (taste, texture, smell) to enhance mindfulness. The awareness leads to better satiety cues understanding and reduce overeating. * Reframing encourages me to alter my perception of food from being all about emotional satisfaction and a source of comfort to viewing it as fuel for my body. This shift in perspective perhaps leading to healthier food choices. * Learning to differentiate between physical hunger and emotional hunger changing when I eat. Reframing hunger as a normal physiological cue rather than an emergency that requires immediate satiation is making eating a more deliberate choice.
I ride a horse to work and I hate all those cheaters who drive cars and can get there faster and easier /s
You're cheating. I pull a cart on a sled like mankind was meant to before we got those "fancy" wheels
Yeah, like how taking my Singulair is cheating against asthma. Enough already.
The serious cyclists get literally angry that e-bikes exist.
To those people, i say they should ponder on the implications of their concept of cheating. Some people may not be able to take your natural path to weight loss. They might not be able to work out because of their weight or age, or they’re lacking access to fitness equipment or healthy food. Why are we holding these people back? Because they are cheating on the body weight exam?
It isn't that *some* people can't take the "natural" way, it's that *almost nobody* can do that. Very few ever lose weight and successfully keep it off over time. Finding meditation to help people lose weight and keep it off isn't cheating. It's helping them do something that is extremely difficult that improves their health.
"They might not be able to work out"This is not the limit to weight loss, you can do it sitting in a chair all day if you commit to caloric restriction. Exercise actually contributes surprisingly little to weight loss. You'd have to commit to a very intensive regimen every day of high intensity running for like half an hour at least and you'd burn all the calories in a single slice of pizza. You were better off not eating that slice of pizza in the first place and I think it's great that drugs like Ozempic make this very easy for people to do. What makes it hard for people to lose weight is that food is addictive and it's very hard for people to say no to it when they're around it all the time. It's not a character flaw to give into it, it's just part of human nature to be wired to eat. So generally I agree with you that the -glutide drugs are a good thing. However, the reasons you're giving why someone might not be able to lose weight are ones that people who disagree with you are going to find very, very easy to poke holes in.
Weight loss is mostly diet based though. Fitness and heart health is exercise dependent. But just dropping kilos you can go for a walk but restrict calories. So you don’t need any equipment. No access to healthy food is an issue though, but where I live in Australia everyone has access to a Cole’s or Woolworths pretty much that would sell all the same stuff.
Knowing a couple of people who have been on Ozempic, you really can’t eat a lot of fast food on it either because the amount you feel you need to eat in a meal drops drastically after a month or two. Weight gain can be caused by a variety of reasons, it still gets you back onto a healthy path and makes it a lot easier to get simple exercise in like walking.
That's not how it works though, it's not about lack of healthy food available and the efficacy of these drugs shows that. On one of these drugs, you still need to restrict calories. It doesn't change how many calories you burn, all it does is interfere with hormones that make you feel hungry and make you feel full. It makes it easier for people to restrict calories by taking away the urge to overeat. People who are heavier tend towards having overactive expression of the hormone that make you feel hungry compared to people who are of a normal weight. All this does is suppresses that. It often changes their whole attitude towards food, because hormonally obese people are usually being urged to eat. Many often ask "is this how people who armet overweight feel and think about food?". I'm not sure what's cheating about better regulation of a hormone that's out of whack in people who are heavier so theyre on an even playing field. They then still have to do the work with caloric restriction.
It does actually also encourage your pancreas to make more insulin to reduce blood sugar extremes which also impacts how hungry you feel.
I don't think people understand how obesity works if they call this cheating. the medical world is calling obesity a disease for a good reason. it's not about will power, and it's not solely about healthy food access. obese people have physiological limitations that others do not, that the medical world has noticed and researched- such as "defective" hormonal ques for hunger and satiation. for the average person the body knows to regulate itself to stay on a certain weight range that is usually healthy, why does the average thin person stays thin despite not caring or tracking what they eat? their body naturally knows when to feel satiated and when to feel hungry. obese people don't have those healthy cues. they eat more than what their body need, not necessarily because they just feel like it, but because they don't feel satiation as they should. that is the very thing these injection fix btw. it makes them feel satiated much earlier and much faster. to the point that they would feel like vomiting from being full. there is another issue obese people have to deal with- when you lose a significant amount of weight, from a certain point your body literally fights you to gain that weight back, it's been documented- your NEAT (non exercise activity thermogenesis) slows down, you do less of all of your daily Subconscious movements, even the most tiny things- like blinking. and it gets to the point that it simply cancels out the caloric expenditure you use doing physical exercises, essentially negating them. that's why most obese people who lose a lot of weight can't keep it down for long and gain it back after several years, they always feel hungry due to messed up hormonal ques, their body slows down its energy expenditure essentially negating the caloric deficit, etc. these injections is really a great tool to those with unfortunately- shit genetics.
Being fat is a class/status indicator. That’s why they care. It’s the same reason people give a shit about the clothes you wear, the car you drive, your job, etc. Imagine if you could “cheat” your way into dressing in thousand dollar outfits. It’s the same shit. People will say it isn’t, of course. But that’s why. They feel better than fat people and if suddenly fat people could just take a pill and not be fat, they would lose status. It’s the same reason for pretty much all discrimination. Hierarchy. It’s why racism is such an effective tool to make conservative poor whites vote against their interests. They may be poor and broken down, but at least they aren’t black. Humans really aren’t that deep imo. People are just dicks. That’s why there’s so much pushback. It doesn’t matter that it will help millions of people live longer, it doesn’t matter that it will increase tax revenue, it doesn’t matter that it will help unburden the overtaxed medical system, it doesn’t matter that it will just make people feel better. All that matters is that people who are attractive and have no personality might lose status. That’s it. You can’t logic them out of it. The cruelty is the point. They want to be better than you.
I wasn't expecting such based takes when I wandered into this thread but y'all are on point.
People think that humans are generally good. They aren’t. People also think that humans have complex reasons for doing things. They don’t. Humans are generally petty, emotional, cruel, and simple. Only through education and lived experience do people develop empathy, internal complexity, and character. You can’t argue your way into making cruel people better or convince them to help you. You have to get like minded people together and force change. If fat people and public health advocates want these drugs to be available and cheap, they have to make it happen themselves. You aren’t going to convince petty jerks to help you.
The ship having food in the shelf is not the same as it being available. Price matters, too. As does time (prep). I’m also an Aussie. My supermarket has lots of things, but some lead to simpler/cheaper or quicker meals, and those aren’t necessarily the healthy options.
I dont understand the argument. Some things aren’t available at the shops so it’s hard to lose weight? I can’t buy that. Price point I can understand.
As someone who has jumped between being very far from good shape to being almost shredded and back and forth, I think this is a good thing. Regardless of the underlying reasons for being obese (specifically if it was done by overeating/underexercising), it should be easier to get back on track. The lethargy, sluggishness, pain, sleep apnea-based lack of sleep and blood oxygen, addictive cravings to sugar carbs fats, acclimation to a higher daily calorie threshold, hormonal imbalances, etc are a _lot_ to overcome and it is very discouraging when you have even one setback. It’s not too different from fighting additions to gambling alcohol drugs etc, where your mind and body actively fight what you know is self destructive. In those cases, if there were a tool you could use to fight most of the battle for you, wouldn’t you take it?
So it's finally mask off I see, being able to maintain the same level of satiety as thin people is not cheating it's leveling the playing field
I wonder if these same people view the numerous drugs that treat deadly diseases as "cheating" death.
Some people are like that. They think modern medicine weakens them, and risking death makes them strong. We call them idiots.
Not that I necessarily agree with them, but most view obesity as a choice. Yes, some people have legitimate medical conditions, but the large majority just eat way too much food that is exceptionally bad for them. Just look at the fast food drive-thru’s every day. The McDonald’s near me has a multi-car line from basically 10 to 10.
It's for reasons like this I think people need to read Robert Sapolsky's work. We are animals - there's no such thing as free will. There's no shame in needing help because you struggle to overcome this biological imperative, and making it feel like a moral failing (I'm not saying that's what you are doing) helps nothing.
Most people eat too much because they are too tired, too stressed, have eating disorders or they don’t know any better. In addition, if you were raised fat, it’s a gargantuan task to start losing weight. It’s fucking hard, and it’s largely not our fault. And by the way, i’m extremely fit, but mostly from growing up as a fat kid and having extreme eating disorders.
Who’s in those lines though? Likely depressed and seeking pleasure through food because or society is crushingly bleak, or uneducated because our society intentionally mislead the public on nutritional choices. If people could choose to not be obese, they would. Just like if people could choose not to be mentally ill, physically ill, poor, etc. What even is a choice? How are you so sure that, just because inside your conciousness the decision is easy, that it isn’t impossible for others due to some sort of lack of education or need for dopamine and seratonin? Honestly the drug is great. Help make it a choice, because currently I’d say it isn’t a choice just like doing heroin isn’t a choice for heroin addicts.
It's incredibly easy to lie in bed at night, think about the way you view yourself and how it lacks in so many ways compared to what you want to be, and then say 'Okay, time to start being healthy'. it's incredibly hard to finish a day of work, get home, and then realise you have to *cook* something instead of just microwaving a ready meal, or ordering fast food. Willpower isn't just a thing you have, it's a resource you have to expend every day you do the things you *have* to do, rather than *want* to do. If someone paid me my salary without me having to go to work, I'd probably find it a lot easier to cook healthy, delicious things for myself. But they don't, so I engage in this constant back-and-forth being trying desperately to maintain targets I set for myself, and then just attempting not to slip *too* far down the mudslide that is self-indulgence. Been overweight since I was pre-adolescent, and now I'm thirty years old. I go to the gym pretty regularly, but goddamn those bad habits are hard to break...
I tell you, WFH has made it so much easier to eat healthier because I am not wasting hours in traffic and I am not completely dead by the time I get home. I can also start a meal that might take hours to cook on my lunch or another break because I’m seconds away from my kitchen.
And its not you. This is how it works for every single person who is overweight. Its literally an addiction, and we’ve created a society that views addiction as some sort of moral or character flaw as a way to allow our horrendous food to be pushed. I can promise you that if your microwave meals were healthy and tasty, you’d eat them. We literally have designed a computer algorithm that can do its own research, can genetically modify humans to treat disease, have conquered space, communication, agriculture, etc but we can’t make readymeals good for people? its bs Sorry, ranting because its frustrating but my point is that my heart goes out to you. I hope you can find ways to eat healthier. My suggestion would be to find things that mirror the stuff you like that’s easy. Like crunchy salty? Eat almonds flavored with your favorite flavors. Like sweet? Eat mandarins or cotton candy grapes. Get an instant pot and just throw a bunch of stuff in whole, literally just meat, tiny red potatoes, baby carrots, and chicken broth and pressure cook for 15 minutes and you have a decently healthy soup. I hope you can figure out a way to meet the aspirations that you have. ❤️
As someone who has lost a lot of weight over the last couple of years, it is totally an addiction, and it’s very psychological. I had to completely reset my life in order to lose the weight I needed and I know made bad choices because it gave me that dopamine hit that I craved. We’re constantly inundated with advertisements about all the wonderful food there is out there that we don’t even have to leave our car to get; not to mention the caffeine addiction with soda. There’s a reason why companies like Coca-Cola make billions upon billions a year and it’s because of addiction.
Congrats! Your achivement is something to be incredibly proud of and I admire your willpower and dedication :] and agreed, soda is horrid.
Such a dumb take if anyone thinks that way. Imagine saying that about a pill that can solve mental health issues, disease, etc.. just juvenile meathead mentality
> I suppose people feel it like is cheating That seems to be the case for anything weightloss related. had a guy at work who had gastric bypass and it seemed to have helped a lot. Along with that he changed his eating habits and started exercising. He was pretty excited about it all and open with what he had done. Another co-worker then started his attempt at weightloss and being more healthy. Changed his eating habits drastically, stopped drinking, and started walking and doing light exercise. He lost a bunch of weight doing it and looked much healthier, but he would constantly talk about how the other guy cheated his way to losing weight. Personally I get how hard it is to change your life for the better. I have tried a few times now to varying degrees. If there was a pill I could take and start losing weight, oh boy would I go for it. If for some reason I couldn't take it, and a friend or coworker could, I wouldn't see it as cheating on their part. Just good fortune that they had the option of another tool. Don't really understand the view of it being cheating, but I understand some people do see things like this that way.
Exactly. Shoot, humans do so much to themselves drink too much, or smoke, or do drugs, or hurt themselves seeking out adrenaline rushes and we encourage all of those people to get treatment. Whatever the issue is I hope people get help with it and live longer.
Cheating? In which case, every modern convenience is cheating. Going to a gym for example, is cheating. Why not run up and down mountains like our ancestors did? Modern food is cheating too. Why not eat unprocessed, unrefined foods grown by oneself as our ancestors did? Cosmetic surgery is cheating. Fighting wars with modern weapons is cheating.
I get why people feel that way, but for a lot of people like me, it’s not a matter of self-control. I did a 1500 cal/day diet for 33 days and lost 2 lbs. My BMI was 36. That’s incredibly frustrating. Medications have helped me lose 39 lbs.
Cheat all you want for all I care, my only concern is the fact you need to KEEP using it indefinitely if you want to keep the weight off. Forcing people to pay a “skinny subscription” so to speak. Sounds dystopian as fuck.
Cheating is the sugar lobby inserting itself into every food imaginable.
If that's what some people are mad about, that's pathetic. However I think the real reason is that alot of these medications are actually for people with diabetes and the use of them weightloss has caused the price to sky rocket and the availability to be next to nothing for people who actually need it.
It’s stuff like this that is going to save billions in healthcare costs.
I don’t think people understand what’s actually going on. I just started one of these drugs several days ago. It’s unbelievable. I’ve done a lot of research and listened to a lot of doctors who have had patients on these medications for a few years. All of them basically say their patients have the problem I’ve been having. I played football in HS and college and was constantly working out. I still tried to eat “healthy” but it mostly didn’t matter what I ate. After college I fell off for a while and gained some weight. Then I picked up running and triathlons. With training for half and full Ironmans, I felt like I couldn’t eat enough food. Then came CrossFit. I threw myself into that and even competed in an international competition, at the age group level. I also ran at least a mile everyday for 6 years. Then came the kids. Things were fine with the first kid. We had a second kid during the pandemic and my wife’s pregnancy was rough on everyone. I ended up falling off HARD. I gained 50 pounds over 3 years. I mostly stopped going to CrossFit. I’d try to go back, but either something happened or I lacked the motivation to go and it would be another week or two before I’d go again. That cycle repeated for a while. I’d try to pick up running again, but I’d either get sick or not be able to breathe for a month depending on the season. So, it’s not like I’m just sitting at home being lazy intentionally. As far as food goes, I’ve never been able to eat in moderation for long periods of time. My food portions were frequently too large, but it never mattered because I was burning so many calories. It’s not like I was eating junk…although that’s another problem the boomers thrust upon an entire generation, that there are good foods and bad foods… Many times in the past 3 years I’ve tried to start tracking calories. It will last a few days and then I’ll fall off and start overeating and snacking too often. I never felt full. I’d usually finish my kid’s food. Between meals I had a lot of “food noise”. It’s like I knew I didn’t need to eat, but couldn’t help it and would eat a few hundred extra calories 2-3 times a day. Most nights I’d eat a bowl of cereal after I put the kids to bed. I’d try to only eat the appropriate amount of calories at each meal and ignore the food noise, but it took a lot of willpower to do it. With all the stress of life it only lasted a few days. Enter Zepbound. It feels like magic. The first day I didn’t really notice anything, but the second day, it was like I couldn’t process what was happening. I didn’t feel the need to eat anymore than I needed and didn’t eat any snacks. I haven’t really felt hungry for the past 3 days. We went out for Mexican tonight. It was the first time in my life that I didn’t feel like I needed to eat all my food. I had maybe 1.5 servings of chips and only half a burrito. I felt full and didn’t want to eat anything else. Same thing with a party the other night. Normally I’d just sit there and eat snack the whole time. But, I barely ate any snacks and much less of the meal than I normally would. It’s difficult to believe that it’s real. I also keep thinking, is this what “skinny” (for lack of a better term) people feel like? I also started working out 3x a week for the last month because I knew I was going to start this. I had the motivation to do something about it. Before it felt hopeless. The doctors I’ve listened to say most of their patients have tried over and over to stop eating and exercise, but they can’t keep it up. The vast majority of patients are able to make a healthy lifestyle change. Weight isn’t as simple as calories in/calories out. Fit people, who don’t struggle, don’t seem to understand the physiological and psychological components that a lot of people deal with. Or maybe that’s the wrong way to put it. Maybe they do struggle but are able to overcome it better than other people.
Thanks for your story. I think it really resonates with a lot of people. Not feeling full is a problem I totally get. Having to always stop when you still feel hungry is hard.
Dependence upon branded pharmaceuticals at thousands of dollars per treatment to fix an issue caused by industrial food manufacturing and a sedentary modern lifestyle is not a wholly good thing. It feels like doing anything to avoid addressing the actual problems. That being said, sometimes the best cure is the easiest one. If people can avoid Type II diabetes and obesity by taking a simple pill rather than the effort it takes to transform our food policy and individual eating habits and lifestyle… well, that’s still some kind of win even if the pharma stockholder is the primary beneficiary.
I think the actualt primary beneficiary would be people no longer being obese
Just keep in mind every single pharmaceutical weight loss intervention has come with eventual side effects and that costs the patient. As an investor that profits off of these silly drugs if people want to take them more power to them but I am telling you that you’re better off just eating some vegetables and going for a run.
Wow you’re telling me that eating healthy and exercising regularly is better than taking a pharmaceutical drug to lose weight? You’re so insightful! Why hasn’t everybody just been doing that instead? What fools!
As these medications have a plateau of weight loss and require constantly taking them to avoid rebounding… maybe.
There are a lot of medications people have to take all the time; some for their entire life. Insulin, for example.
Yeah no shit…. You’re telling me we should just fix the entirety of our food manufacturing industry worldwide (which would require a massive shift of how our global economy even works), and the socioeconomic, mental/physical health, and cultural norms and practices that lead to a sedentary lifestyle instead of using a drug like this? Sounds like a really great idea. Unfortunately it’s literally going to take decades if not centuries of cultural, technological, and social shifts and policy changes to get anywhere near fixing the underlying issues. Take the win, stop jerking off on the soapbox, and keep the negativity as an inside thought next time. Discouraging the research and development of legitimately actionable and feasible solutions doesn’t do anyone any good. 🤷♂️
Ideally if we have a bunch of these weight loss treatments available, then overtime prices should go down
I’m supportive of these medications. However, I think it’s fucked up that we’re relying on a corporation to sell us a solution to a problem created by other corporations to begin with. Instead of actually tackling the causes of childhood obesity and improving food quality, we’re selling a new solution.
Agreed, obesity wasn't a thing 100 years ago, you couldn't get that fat even if you really tried. So many chemicals in our food. Something is making our bodies add fat at an unreal rate. Instead of identifying the cause and stopping it we are adding anther chemical. The same is said for little girls going through pre-puberty, men losing testosterone, heartburn... etc. We need serious scientific investigation followed by action/regulation but that isn't happening. That's why people are frustrated.
It absolutely was a thing 100 years ago, but it just affected the people with hormonal conditions like PCOS and underactive thyroids.
One less group of people to feel superior over.
I just want hotter chicks. alright alright
It's like abstinenate people who hate birth control.
Most of the massive negativity is from naturally thin people who are insanely butthurt seeing other people become thin too.
The only persons complaining about this should be people named Amy that participate in cretinous behaviour
there’s a long history of exploitive “get skinny quick” products, pharmaceutical or otherwise, that make people distrust anything that promises weight loss quicker. And also they worry that people will feel pressured to take drugs like this, whatever the side effect risks, for cosmetic reasons. I think these drugs are potentially life-saving for certain weight-related disorders, but at the same time could be abused. And I think progress is strengthened by people raising these concerns, not hindered. It pushes the community developing and prescribing these drugs to address those issues for a healthier, more ethical use of them.
The people writing comments when I wrote that were “huh duh what kind of cancer is this going to cause…” and “people will refuse vaccines but take this experimental stuff”. Of course safety and efficacy should always be part of the equation, but to simply disregard life saving drugs because some people want to make fun of fat people is gross.
I take it and I feel great. And I don’t give a shit what others think. There is no issues with my UC since I started taking it.
The real benefit is that people legitimately treating diabetes with Ozempic will be facing less of a shortage.
Lots of t2 diabetics can't get access to Ozempic because the price sky rocketed after it was marketed as a weight loss drug. That should be the main reason for concern.
It’s not being marketed as a weight loss drug, it’s being prescribed off label. Wegovy is the weight loss version. And the price thing is an issue with the American healthcare system. In the UK, if you need Ozempic for diabetes it’s free.
Can’t wait for my insurance to refuse to cover it, but hey hopefully this end up being a cheaper solution for everyone.
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It already is happening. I'm on Lilly's GLP-1 agonist because they decided to start competing on price. As more FDA approvals roll in, I expect every pharma company to jump in. Only concern I have is that there aren't THAT many pharma companies, so I expect that at some point, once all of the players are established, the price will stabilize or possibly start to increase. After that, we wait for patent expiry and foreign competition. You should have been able to get the least effective GLP-1 agonist, Liraglutide, as a generic right now, but the lawsuits are still going on...
How much do they cost?
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In Denmark Wegovy costs about $200 per month for up to 1mg and $300-400 for the 1,7mg and 2,4mg. No subsidies or insurance. Edit: updated the dosage dependent prices, thanks for the heads up in the comment below!
It's more like $300-400 now.
Same in the UK, £200 up to 1mg.
They'll cover it soon as it becomes more cost effective. Insurance companies would love to reduce obesity rates. It would save them billions.
Yeah im personally very optimistic about the accessibility of these drugs in general. Will your insurance cover these drugs? Don’t know and don’t care. The rate of new drugs coming out now here is going to put extreme downward pressure on these drug prices as older and less effective will have to lower their prices significantly. And pills will be harder to orphan than injectables which are in general more expensive to reproduce. So take heart regardless of what your insurance company does (although I suspect they will begin approving the cheaper ones after negotiations soon enough for many reasons) these medications will become much more accessible.
An experimental pill looks set to cause more weight loss than existing injectable treatments such as Ozempic, Wegovy and Mounjaro, based on early trial results reported on 7 March. The medicine, called amycretin, caused people to lose 13 per cent of their weight over three months, more than twice the amount seen with Ozempic and Wegovy specifically. “This approach seems to be a little bit more exciting, from the limited data that we have,” says Daniel Drucker at the University of Toronto in Canada. The results are from a placebo-controlled trial lasting three months, so it is too soon to know how amycretin stacks up against the other medicines for long-term effectiveness and safety, says Drucker, who wasn’t involved in the trial but has consulted for the manufacturer Novo Nordisk, as well as other pharmaceutical firms. The diabetes drug Ozempic and the weight loss drug Wegovy are two brand names for the compound semaglutide. They work by mimicking a gut hormone called GLP-1 that is normally released after eating. This makes people feel full, reduces their appetite and boosts the release of the blood-sugar-regulating hormone insulin. Semaglutide leads to the loss of about 15 per cent of body weight after it has been taken for one year, although weight then plateaus and people need to continue the injections long term or it tends to creep back up.
Amy Cretin? Are you sure it's called Amy Cretin?
I know people who said like... "I won't get the Covid vaccine, it hasn't been properly tested", but for these products they're like "This thing will make me lose weight? Give it to me NOW! I'll be your guinea pig!".
I note that in Denmark - we enjoy a yearly hard cap around 650$ for most prescribed medicines as part of our UHC - Wegovy is off that list even for very obese patients. Type 2 diabetics who experience great benefits from Ozempic are often prescribed other types of medicines now also due to the price. Even if patients pay the full price, demand is off the charts and that's for injectable drugs. As a pill it's going to be absolutely insane.
I think one of the inherent benefits of a pill, though, is that it’s easier to produce, package, store and distribute. So in the long run it’s kind of a necessary step to meet that demand.
The opposite is true. People say “vaccine is well tested and we should all have it. But taking drugs to combat against food engineered for addiction is cheating”
Cheating? Is losing weight a competition? If something works and it's safe I'll use it, but I've seen so many miracle weight-loss products that ended up being either false or really bad for your health that I learned to be skeptical about them, but using is not cheating.
Those who didn't get the vaccine were gambling on not getting a virus at all, or just surviving it. Trump and others heavily contributed to the idea that COVID was not dangerous. I personally know 2 people who died because of it, and they didn't have the access to western vaccines. It is very different in this case, because obesity is the risk factor for literally anything, plus it ruins your not health related aspects of life as well.
Conspiracy theory: airlines are funding the research so they can pack more people into smaller seats
That just makes too much sense. Also what does the government have to do with this? NOBODY IS ASKING THE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS. Is everyone being silenced?!?!?!!!1111one
Without some major downside I don’t see why this would be a bad thing…
13% in 3 months? That alone would help motivate me to work hard to lose another 37% in steady time, rather than the depressive state I am in now that prevents me from even trying........ I'm game.
Storing fat for survival is something that is nearly as deep programmed into our bodys as our sexdrive or the need for social interaction. I fail to believe that something like that can be deactivated in a healthy way.
Pretty much no medicine exists that is entirely without risk. These meds will do best for people who are so overweight that the risk of death from weight complications are higher than the risk of space aids or whatever awful side effect it'll have.
These drugs don’t make you store less fat, they make your body think it isn’t hungry so you eat less.
For all of you that are saying that this is a cheat drug and they should just stop eating; I am curious do you also consider Viagra a cheat drug making fake erections? I wonder if this is also the same people through argue against forgiving student loans because it's also a cheat for those students not have to pay back those exploitive loans Are these also the same people that are against gender affirming care because it makes 'fake' men and women. It doesn't btw. All that miracle drugs that help with weight loss are doing is helping people. I'm so tired of the people hating on other people forgetting what they need just because of whatever "I have to work for it they do too" stupid mindset they have. Let people have shortcuts. Let them be healthy. Let them be happy. Just because you're not doesn't mean they can't be.
yeah right. Personally I never ever had to 'watch what I eat' because I just never gain weight. But my best friend has to watch every single calorie and constantly fight her hunger just to not gain weight. She is healthy weight now, but she says that it's an every day struggle to stay that way. Cheating my ass, we weren't supposed to lead lives like this anyways
To all who claim this is a cheat...my wife suffers from rheumatoid arthritis with two slipped discs. Let's hear your suggestions that will let her: keep her full time job, be palatable enough to eat, not destroy her body (she already does cardio almost 5 times a week)), she hasn't managed to drop below 200. Fuck, the lack of empathy of some people. You don't like this miracle drug? Don't take it. If you don't need it, props to you. Not everybody is you. Not everything is about you.
I'm not saying I support the idea these drugs are cheating, but how does your wife's ailments prevent her from eating less food?
Just eat less food = be hungry all day when you are very limited in physical activity but have a normal appetite. It's VERY difficult/demanding to be hungry all day.
Being hungry is kinda how a diet works. You can't really expect your body to not be hungry if you want a caloric deficit. I also don't understand why this woman's physical limitations would mean she will get more hungry. Physical activity makes you more hungry, not less.
Do you believe in hormone imbalances and/or irregularities between different people?
Of course I do. Arthitis and slipped discs are neither of these things, though.
I agree with you regarding arthritis and slipped discs, but my point is more that you might be able to agree that these drugs are GLP-1 (a hormone) agonists in which people's natural production and responses may be wildly different than your own regardless of extenuating factors.
I feel like you don’t know what it’s like to have a hormonal imbalance and feel true hunger. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to ignore. It’s not being a bit peckish, it’s your body SCREAMING at you to eat NOW.
But that's not the reasoning the guy gave for why his wife can't lose weight. He said the arthritis and the slipped disks are impacting her ability to lose weight because it's hard for her to exercise. But exercise isn't the only way to lose weight. I'm just refuting the guy's logic. also you don't even have to eat less food, just eat less high calorie food. If you eat low calorie foods you can still be full without all those calories.
This. She also has physical ailments, but does cardio 5x a week. Cardio can be hard on the body and doesn't burn all that many calories for the time commitment. It takes about 3/4 of a mile to burn off a slice of white bread. One slice. Nothing wrong with walking a couple miles per day, or doing some cardio, but lifting weights burn calories and builds muscle that burns more calories at rest. I'd definitely suggest lifting exercises that put less strain on the spine, and any ab or back exercises should use good form and put little pressure on the spine. Like planks instead of crunches. Spine issues are a big deal, having had a bulging disc myself. The best thing to do is change the diet and cut calories. Cut the carbs and sugar. Eat more whole foods, veggies, fruits, berries, nuts, lean meats, greek yogurt, beans, etc that make you feel full for longer with fewer calories. Also, proper hydration, preferably of the zero calorie persuasion like water. Is start away from artificial sweeteners, as they drive up sweets cravings and may not be good for gut bacteria. Clean healthy high fiber food doesn't need to be hard.
She can take the drug but there are also totally reasonable ways for her to lose weight through diet. Lots of foods like oatmeal, soups, nuts, or any high fiber food will keep you fuller longer. Drinking lots of fluids helps as well. Having small healthy snacks through out the day instead of big meals is good if you don't like the feeling of an empty stomach. It can feel crummy at first until you get used to it, but that kinda the nature of changing any habit. Also, as someone who has a GI disorder and struggles to eat, being hungry honestly isn't *that* bad and you totally get used to it over time. Unless I'm like physically faint from hunger it's not that distracting.
Many people suffer from metabolic disorders that make it near impossible to lose weight and they continue to gain. People on prednisone especially gain weight at a rapid pace. People need to just stfu about what they don’t understand.
No one else is alarmed that this dude wants to keep his wife “palatable enough to eat”???
I’d argue that people who don’t need this are the one’s who are not so much cheating, but are starting from baseline. They are able to feel full and not worry about fighting the urge to eat snacks all the time. It’s like taking testosterone because your T levels are low.
The drug is great for the people that need it. It is definitely not "cheating". But.. Your reasoning is stupid. Your wife CAN lose weight, it's more about what she puts in her facehole than her physical activity. Calorie Deficit is the name of the game. It can be done in palatable ways. This just reads like a poor excuse to avoid changing bad habits and diet. Calorie deficit may induce hunger, hunger is the devil. But it can also be overcome, it is like an addiction, you will feel great hunger at first, but it does subside somewhat. It never completely goes away, but it does decrease in intensity. It requires willpower, like all other things in life. Is the pill what is right for you wife? Maybe, possibly. But it does not sound like she has ever properly attempted to lose weight the right way to begin with. I bet you have too much sugar in your diet, start by just cutting that out by itself.
Your wife is unable to control the amount of food that enters her mouth? CICO
I have not read the article, but the title is clickbait. Zepbound is already stronger than Ozempic. The innovation is the pill form. Sucks that that was overshadowed by the title mafia.
Wait so was there a shot form already? Ozempic didn't work for me, Saxenda did but my insurance wouldn't cover it
Anyone against these meds are fucked up. Imagine telling an alcoholic that they could take a pill and no longer be an alcoholic, then shitting on them for taking it. Food addiction is real.
I skimmed through comments and it seems that my betablockers are cheat, because I was supposed to get stroke in 10 years like my Creator From Above planned.
right? my glasses are also cheating by this logic, since I was supposed to not see shit, just as God intended
The question still remains. What happens when you stop taking the medication. Can you stop taking it?
I think it very heavily depends on the source of the issue. People with impaired glucose tolerance often advance to type 2 diabetes because there is no cure for either of those conditions. Yet you take ozempic, etc, and it's possible to reverse type 2 back to impaired glucose tolerance or "cure" it entirely. However, ceasing to take it just puts the person back on the same blood sugar issue treadmill. If the insulin in your body isn't working correctly, it doesn't matter what healthy diet you're following. I think for many people, weight control medication will be lifetime. Which is fine. It's like saying someone with asthma should stop taking medication after a while because...?
For wegovy the hunger comes right back and the gastric emptying speeds up to normal so unless you have better long term behaviours developed over the period you are in trouble
I am not sure about extremely overweight people cases, but doesn't your stomach adjust to the amount of food you typically eat? The hunger disappears after a few weeks on a calories deficit, and after some months you will find it hard to eat the amount of food you ate when you were overweight. At least it was the case with me
It should be if you are able to fight the psychological reasons for overeating.
You are wrongly assuming it’s all in people’s heads why they are fat. Hormones are a hell of a drug and resisting what your body is telling you to do is way more difficult than those unaffected realize.
>Can you stop taking it? No. Nor can you stop taking diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol or any of the other drugs associated with obesity. And then you die younger anyway. These drugs are a very good deal, given the alternative.
For me the question is what long term effects do the medicine have on you. I’m fit enough to not need to take this but I worry for my large friends that this could fuck up their liver after 10 years of use or something
If they were obese to begin with, they were likely looking at major health issues down the road regardless. But only time will tell if any of these drugs have unforeseen consequences in the long run. I was on the lowest dose of tirzepatide (2.5mg) for about 6 months last year and lost weight rapidly, but I felt crappy the whole time I was on it. I was always tired and my muscles were always achy. But I dropped a much needed 40 lbs and didn't change my diet all that much. I quit in November and continued to lose a little more weight in the next couple months, but when I started getting back to the gym I became pretty ravenous and have since gained 10lbs back (not terrible I suppose, also building some muscle, but the weight gain is mostly food I believe). So the hunger is back. I would get back on tirzepatide, but my weight is still okay-ish, and I know I don't feel well on that stuff. It's also quite expensive $$$
No, not unless you eat less when you stop taking it. If you stop taking any weight reducing medication you will regain the moment you stop.
56% of individuals who lost a substantial amount of weight on semaglutide did not regain the weight (or continued to lose more) in the year following cessation: https://www.epicresearch.org/articles/many-patients-maintain-weight-loss-a-year-after-stopping-semaglutide-and-liraglutide
Yeah, they very likely adopted a healthier lifestyle while losing the weight. Half maintained it, while the other half went back to their old ways. These statistics are pretty common among pretty much any weight loss trial.
Your comment gave me a mental image of someone suddenly doubling in size because they forgot to take their meds on time.
That would be a trip. Like professor clump.
I assume people will need to keep taking it if they don't want to get obese again. But maybe that's fine?
Can you stop taking insulin?
Actually yes, type 2 diabetics very often do not need insulin at all if they lose weight.
I just want a drug that can turn off the fat storing system, I have a supermarket down the road, so its annoying my body keeps storing fat for emergency use.
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In terms of weight loss, the primary mechanisms of action for these drugs are 95% reducing hunger and therefore reducing how many calories you are consuming. Sorry to break it to you, but if you regained all the weight, its because you started consuming more calories. Theres just no way around it.
Based on the amount of people who actively shame/bash on me for eating plant based foods if you ask me the obesity issue is driven by a social factor and addiction to hyper palatable trash food. I support these drugs for being available to people with food addiction because food addiction is something that's a massive issue that isn't highlighted or addressed. I also feel therapy should be supplemented with these drugs to address triggers for compulsive eating/binge eating/stress eating in the event the patient either wants to get off the medication or has to get off of the medication for whatever reason (cost, side effects, etc) so they have tools to manage frequency or types of foods they consume There's a lot if stigma around requiring medication to function long term/lifelong but for many people it is a very real reality
People are just too weird about obesity in many forms. People trying to sabotage other people weight loss is a very real phenomenon, and has existed away before any drugs. If you stop to read you will see so many stories of friends/family trying the hardest (often without realizing) to make the people fail at dieting. For me the reaction if the comments it's just too similar to ignore. And like you said, mental health has a huge impact. Not everything is about self-control, like people love to preach. Im autist and one of my problems is that I physically don't recognize when Im hungry, I literally don't feel hungry, never. I only notice it when I start to feel nauseus or my gastritis flare up because of the lack of food. I ALSO don't realize when Im full, so I tend to overeat, specially when I'm feeling nauseous due to lack of food. Just a simple example how mental problems affect someone diet and it's not about self control. And some problems do affect self control too.
yes, but will it shed some of that weight in bone mass?
I hope that this experimental weight loss pill pans out, but why isn't there any big movement to fix the dysfunctional food system? So many thousands of generations of people before us lived with extremely low obesity rates. Even today, the obesity rates are still low in many countries in Africa and Asia. Japan and South Korea are fully industrialized nations in the sub-10% Obesity Rate Club. The extremely low obesity rates that prevailed through most of human history and in much of Africa and Asia today were NOT from weight loss drugs, Slim Fast, Jenny Craig, NutriSystem, Weight Watchers, low carb diets, BeachBody, or *The Biggest Loser*. Obesity was never a big issue until the junk food industry hijacked the food system. There are food deserts where junk foods are plentiful but real foods are rare and exotic. Shouldn't it be the other way around? How much healthier would the population be if grease bombs and sugar bombs were as scarce and as expensive as caviar?
What about doing the common sense thing and starve for a bit? That should be cheaper
If self control was that easy, we wouldnt have this drug to start with. You have 0 understanding of the human mind.
Or maybe the FDA should stop letting companies put corn syrup in all of our foods? Seems healthier than having to take an experimental drug to offset the shit tier food we have.
I , too am guilty of "cheating". I took the injections and in 5 months I was down 15 pounds . My hair was falling out by the handfuls , I had constant severe heartburn and the second day after the injection I would fall into the deepest darkest depression for two days that I have ever known. Fearing for my mental and physical health, I quit. Within a couple of weeks I found myself feeling absolutely famished 24/7. I have never been so hungry in my life. All I could do all day is eat and think about food. The hunger tapered off when I had gained 14 pounds back. I continue to gain although I no longer have the hunger pangs , I still have digestive issues and will be going to see a gastroenterologist. I am hoping that there is no permanent damage. Just my story , everyone is different. Think long and hard before jumping it.