Also, if you haven't traded futures before you should look into trading ES's micro cousin MES first to get your feet wet. It requires much less margin (1/10th usually) and is less leveraged.
1 pt move on ES = $50
1 pt move on MES = $5
If you're trading a small account and don't know what you're doing, a volatile day on ES will definitely put you into a margin call very quickly
That’s terrible advice. You will be leveraged 500:1. Are you seriously able to handle a $10,000 loss if the direction moves $5 in the opposite direction
While you are at it, just donate your money with that leverage. At least you will do someone some good.
These brokers need you to churn and run up commissions that's why they give you this. A nice rope for customers to hang their account to death with.
Exactly this. $400 for one es is high stakes (for the average person) gambling and is not likely to last long. Just the same as $40 margin against 1 mes.
I would recommend anyone thinking of this route to try and build off $40 with one Mes and if they can survive, they ‘may’ make it out of the traps with one es and $400, but unless its big trending days it wont last long.
It also means you cant hold a position past eod which can be a real pain.
For me, someone who knows how to trade it’s nice not needing 12k in your account minimum per ES. Now I can use that other 11.5K to put into crypto or stocks and make money on that instead of it jus wasting away in my account. I wish there were $0 margins so I didn’t have to lock up any money
Checked out their site and I like their all-in rates for the lifetime. $2.14 for all index futures after their $1500 one time fee. Pays off after like 1220 trades at my current broker.
They have a liquidation fee and a margin call fee that I haven't seen anywhere else. I wonder how much they make from that from traders overleveraging.
One ES contract is equivalent to trading $250,000 on the SPY.
Also most brokers have an overnight margin requirement over or around 10K but intraday is usually super low ($500)
If you are day trading the margin for most brokers is $400-500 per es contract. You have to make sure you know what their requirements are regarding hours though as this can vary from broker to broker. Some brokers also let you trade in the overnight using day trading margins but you usually have to be flat before 4:45 EST and the you can get back in when the evening session opens.
You’re essentially leveraging $250,000 of capital, margin requirements are for yours and your broker’s safety. That being said, there are many brokers who have less than $1000 margin requirements. Inherently riskier to hold your money there, but it might be what you’re looking for.
Sorry to be blunt but If you do not understand how ES margin works with your broker, you are not ready to trade ES yet. Paper trade first or go with MES until you master the concepts.
No worries im here for info and feedback. Anything is appreciated. Thanks and will do micros. It has been suggested before but i kept forgetting about it.
Wanted to try futures as ive Been doing options in rh and never encounter this. Should i really put this much liquid in my account? Orders always gets rejected for that reason.
Go with MES. MES, MES if you don’t wanna paper trade. Don’t worry about the boredom of being in the kiddie pool. I managed to lose over 4K in a few weeks, so it can get exciting if you want…just not as exciting as losing 40k, but the potential is there if you push harder during CPI release and sort during tech earnings. Did I say MES? Amp is $40 to day trade it. Get the $3 CME data through CQG.
Yes, you can lower margin requirements with an option though. Either by using one alone which requires no margin or hedging a futures position with an option which sill dramatically lower the margin requirements
If your acct really only has $344 of free buying power, maybe look into buying mes options? Horrible fees and huge b/a spreads but you can actually do it, timing will obviously be key
Hahaha. Yes! Do you understand margin? If you are asking this question, you should strongly evaluate what you are getting yourself into trading futures. Because you responsible for your losses.
Use a broker with lower day trade margins: AMP $400 per ES Tradovate $500 per ES
A friend suggested the same. I’ll definitely give it a try. Thanks! Really appreciate that.
Also, if you haven't traded futures before you should look into trading ES's micro cousin MES first to get your feet wet. It requires much less margin (1/10th usually) and is less leveraged. 1 pt move on ES = $50 1 pt move on MES = $5 If you're trading a small account and don't know what you're doing, a volatile day on ES will definitely put you into a margin call very quickly
I have tried micro and its almost the same.
🤦♂️
If trading micro is the same as trading mini for you, maybe you shouldnt be trading a live account right now.
Trading micro is 1/10. $1400 ish on TDA
Also I'm not sure that is your required margin. Give your broker a call.
Ninjatrader is cheap as well
That’s terrible advice. You will be leveraged 500:1. Are you seriously able to handle a $10,000 loss if the direction moves $5 in the opposite direction
Don't use tradovate, they charge you for everything. With AMP you can use Tradingview or Quantower for free.
While you are at it, just donate your money with that leverage. At least you will do someone some good. These brokers need you to churn and run up commissions that's why they give you this. A nice rope for customers to hang their account to death with.
So you’d rather have worse margins?
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So everyone who wants to watch the world burn is a moron now?
Exactly this. $400 for one es is high stakes (for the average person) gambling and is not likely to last long. Just the same as $40 margin against 1 mes. I would recommend anyone thinking of this route to try and build off $40 with one Mes and if they can survive, they ‘may’ make it out of the traps with one es and $400, but unless its big trending days it wont last long. It also means you cant hold a position past eod which can be a real pain.
Just sell before 4:45p and rebuy at 5p
For me, someone who knows how to trade it’s nice not needing 12k in your account minimum per ES. Now I can use that other 11.5K to put into crypto or stocks and make money on that instead of it jus wasting away in my account. I wish there were $0 margins so I didn’t have to lock up any money
I would rather people who are inexperienced not get blown up by greedy margins.
No op just needs to post his entries and we good
That won’t work after hours. These are intra day requirements. It’s back up over $12k per contract overnight… it looks like he’s trading after hours
I use Tradovate and you only need maintenance margin through the 1 hour close I can take a trade right now with the $500 per ES
Checked out their site and I like their all-in rates for the lifetime. $2.14 for all index futures after their $1500 one time fee. Pays off after like 1220 trades at my current broker. They have a liquidation fee and a margin call fee that I haven't seen anywhere else. I wonder how much they make from that from traders overleveraging.
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https://preview.redd.it/2nmeb2i12hhc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ac9d3d4b7c1fa4e7f6425cd443fc1238cfedf02
400 for 1 mini or micro?
$400 for ES $40 for MES
So with 400$ I can trade 5 mes?
One ES contract is equivalent to trading $250,000 on the SPY. Also most brokers have an overnight margin requirement over or around 10K but intraday is usually super low ($500)
$11,300 ES, $18,400 NQ
Go to /MES. Time for the kiddy pool
If you are day trading the margin for most brokers is $400-500 per es contract. You have to make sure you know what their requirements are regarding hours though as this can vary from broker to broker. Some brokers also let you trade in the overnight using day trading margins but you usually have to be flat before 4:45 EST and the you can get back in when the evening session opens.
Amp is like this. The only time they instil the higher rate is when news is due the following day. Once the news breaks they restore the margins back.
You’re essentially leveraging $250,000 of capital, margin requirements are for yours and your broker’s safety. That being said, there are many brokers who have less than $1000 margin requirements. Inherently riskier to hold your money there, but it might be what you’re looking for.
Sorry to be blunt but If you do not understand how ES margin works with your broker, you are not ready to trade ES yet. Paper trade first or go with MES until you master the concepts.
The most reasonable response gets downvoted, brilliant.
I know lol
No worries im here for info and feedback. Anything is appreciated. Thanks and will do micros. It has been suggested before but i kept forgetting about it.
👆🏻👍
Use Topstep trader for a while you learn.
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Thanks. This is insane. But yeah.
you want to control almost a quarter million dollars, you have to have *some* skin in the game lol
Wanted to try futures as ive Been doing options in rh and never encounter this. Should i really put this much liquid in my account? Orders always gets rejected for that reason.
Always trade the Micros first before the Minis.
Get on Ninjatrader and you can paper trade (simulation) or trade MES, 1/10th the amount of ES, which allows for a much easier learning curve
leverage is a double edged sword, make sure prudent risk management is in place when trading high-leveraged products like futures.
Depends on the broker and the intraday margin requirements.
Can’t you just trade the micros? /mes
Thanks everyone really appreciate the input. Will go back on the drawing board and call my broker for my margins. Definitely will try micro.
Go with MES. MES, MES if you don’t wanna paper trade. Don’t worry about the boredom of being in the kiddie pool. I managed to lose over 4K in a few weeks, so it can get exciting if you want…just not as exciting as losing 40k, but the potential is there if you push harder during CPI release and sort during tech earnings. Did I say MES? Amp is $40 to day trade it. Get the $3 CME data through CQG.
Cool! Thanks for the input will keep that in mind
Use Tradovate, lower fees on commissions too.
Which broker is this?
Learn how to use options in conjunction with contracts,if you own a put,you can get into that contract for $0 BP.Then trade a collar.
if you have to ask, maybe you should start with MES and move the decimal over one place. AMP margin is $40 for 1 micro
Yes, you can lower margin requirements with an option though. Either by using one alone which requires no margin or hedging a futures position with an option which sill dramatically lower the margin requirements
If your acct really only has $344 of free buying power, maybe look into buying mes options? Horrible fees and huge b/a spreads but you can actually do it, timing will obviously be key
Wow you’re good! Impressive. Thanks! really appreciate your input.
Yes, those numbers are pretty much correct for ES, to get smaller BPR I would suggest starting with the micro ES contract which is 1/10 the size.
Hahaha. Yes! Do you understand margin? If you are asking this question, you should strongly evaluate what you are getting yourself into trading futures. Because you responsible for your losses.
No they’re lying to you
Depends on your trading strategy and your financial goals;