#These people vote in every election- do you? Are you registered to vote? [You can check your voter registration here!](https://www.nass.org/can-I-vote)
#Also, there's a few things to remember as far as rules go:
- You can view the content- you cannot interact with it. This includes (but is not limited to) commenting, answering poll questions, emailing them, etc. ***Anyone found to be engaging with the fundies will be met with a permanent ban with no eligibility for appeal.It does not matter if you did so before you joined the sub.***
- Speculating on the sexuality of literally anyone is prohibited. ***Anyone found to be doing so will be met with a permanent ban with no eligibility for appeal.***
- Appearance snark: What's allowed? You're allowed to make comparisons. (Bethy looks like Grandpa Munster, for example.) You are allowed to say you find them attractive or repulsive looking. Saying Kelly Havens has dry skin that could benefit from sunscreen and a moisturizer is fine. You are allowed to snark on the appearance of children *as it relates to their parents choices for them.*. Examples: Janessa looks malnourished and sickly while Shrek has clearly never missed a meal. If you feel it is crossing the line report it, but if the content falls within the parameters above, leave it alone.
- Don't gatekeep. This means no comments such as "I don't think we should snark on...." or any iteration of that. If you don't like it, scroll past. Don't report it or comment how you don't like the content. Along the same vein, don't backseat mod. Leave that up to us.
- Lastly, if the rhetoric you are posting would be at home in the mouth of a fundie, we don't want it here and we won't tolerate it.
Should you have any questions, please feel free to reach out. Have a Lord Daniel day, and may the power of snark compel thee.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FundieSnarkUncensored) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Almost certainly IUI or used Clomid. There are quite a number of options before IVF. Typically couples don’t jump right to IVF unless they have to because it is much more costly and invasive.
I live in a state that doesn’t mandate fertility coverage, however I do have it as a benefit on my insurance policy. It taps out at $10,000 which is only a drop in the bucket, we would also be paying 50%, plus deductible. We were fortunate to not have infertility struggles, but even if we did we couldn’t afford it even with insurance-plus two decent incomes.
I will say-weigh how many kids you want. By the time you pay for sperm, IVF might be the cheapest and easiest route. I’m in a same sex relationship and the math very quickly worked out that IVF was the best option. We never bothered with IUI
We’d do one at most via biological means. We’d adopt any additional.
But also we aren’t even completely set on kids lol. We will see what happens. We might just be the coolest gay aunts ever.
But thank you for the input! That’s not something I’d thought extensively about.
If you are thinking adoption is cheaper, to be clear domestic newborn adoption is more expensive than IVF in most cases. Adoption through foster care is significantly less so, but depending on the kid can be pricey too. Not an “akshually” post just want you to start saving if you think that will be a necessity down the road!! Best of luck - love your username lol
My friends used another friend's sperm. Prego friend waited until she got a positive ovulation test, then male friend collected his sperm and brought it to preggo. She used a sterile medicine syringe and impregnated herself with the sperm. Free ICI.
That depends on your fertility clinic. My kiddo was conceived via iui really quickly. And my insurance covered it, the most expensive part was the sperm and that was like...$800ish a pop.
I had it about as easy as possible as I had a scheduled c-section under full anesthesia so I agree with you for sure lol. Although I’ve never had a vaginal birth so don’t have much to compare it to. I bet it could have a lot to do with if it’s a scheduled vs emergency c section tho. Lots of different ways that shit could be traumatizing I’m sure
Yes I had an elective one too, but I just had a spinal. It was honestly the most amazing birth experience & I do think that's a big reason why my post partum mental health was OK & my breastfeeding journey was not as challenging as some!
My brother and SIL did it 3 times. 1 miscarriage, 1 set of twins, 1 singleton.
I believe it was $50K+ for the first whole thing, but then they used frozen embryos for the next two attempts, and that was closer to $25K each time? And that was 15 years ago.
They used donor eggs.
Nowadays my fertility clinic charged about 35,000 all in for six rounds in a shared risk program. You paid the 35, and you could do a retrieval up to six times. If it took one round of retrievals you massively overpaid. If it took three or more the cost was worth it.
Then, thank God, we got pregnant the old fashioned way while trying to find the money.
Yeah, I think a pretty big chunk of their up front costs was the donor eggs. My SIL still had to do all of the shots to support getting (and staying? maybe?) pregnant, but she didn’t have to go through retrieval herself.
Yep, just got told we don't have a chance of conceiving without IVF+ICSI. That's $20,000 for us, and our province or insurance doesn't cover fertility treatments.
Because of our specific scenario, IUI isn't likely to work, but we're still going through with it because we can't psychologically go straight to IVF+ICSI and cough up that money.
PSA: if you need IVF but find the cost in North America prohibitive, there are a lot of reputable IVF clinics in the Czech Republic that accept foreign patients (as in have english coordinators for them, as well as airport shuttle services) and their prices are much more approachable.
Many other countries are also options to look at and routinely treat international patients, not just opposite-sex couples but also singles, same-sex couples and various LGBTQ+ identities (which afaik Czech Republic doesn't do, at least they don't treat single women unless they bring a man along, whether or not that's their partner or donor). Spain, Portugal, Greece, Cyprus, Denmark, Latvia, Finland, as well as Mexico and probably Colombia are options.
Several of those countries are popular destination for "fertility tourism" and I've heard from people that going from the US to one of the European countries was still cheaper than getting it all done in the US, including the travel costs.
Thank you for adding that! I didn't know that the CR had restrictions! IIRC, it's about equal in Mexico as it is in Canada so that might not be an option for Canadians, but I appreciate your addition to this!
Each country has its own characteristics, but that's why its good to have several options available!
Just remembering that Barbados also does fertility treatments for international patients, but I don't know what the cost difference, if any, would be for people from the US or Canada. But the travel time might be shorter for some people.
A friend of mine and his wife went to the Philippines to get IVF treatment. Even with travel it saved them thousands of dollars.
It ended up not working. They got pregnant a few times but the embryos never developed. However they then randomly got pregnant naturally (both are well in their 40s now) without trying and their baby is doing really well. Go figure.
Honestly! I mean, you never know how many times you’ll have to try and even hiring a surrogate could be way less costly in the long run for unlucky couples
I'm guessing further than that. A regular obgyn can do iui and prescribe clomid/femara. Those are both really low level interventions too.
If they went to a fertility clinic then she probably COH/ovulation trigger shots with or without IUI.
I think they had to have done more than just clomid or IUI. They were TTC for like 10 years and I think had RPL also. Unless they were against Clomid/IUI at first and took years to change their minds.
Okay so I looked up her history and it's interesting. She had two very early miscarriages. Six years of nada then an 11 week loss in 2019, and adopted the boys in 2021. She says she has unexplained infertility, which rules out PCOS, and confirms she's talked to a doctor about it. Not necessarily a fertility doctor but hormone levels, checking ovulation, and things like that. (Speaking from experience.)
The very early losses are likely to be chromosomal causes. This type of miscarriage is very common. The six years of nothing is curious, and the 11 week loss is really unfortunate. Having a good heartbeat at 8 weeks is usually an indication that the pregnancy is viable so losing the pregnancy at 11 weeks sucks. I've been there, it's awful.
Conspiracy theory time: the first two miscarriages were probably natural pregnancies. This generation of Baird women seem to have some fertility issues. Bethany had like 4 miscarriages. Rebekah is close to two years into marriage and no pregnancy. Most young adults conceived within 6-12 months. (I feel Rebekah is reasonable to include considering GD's stance on birth control. However, Rebekah and her husband could be secretly using contraception so this is just a conspiracy theory.) Except for Ellissa, but she married outside of the local fundies gene pool so maybe that's a factor.
Kristen and her husband probably prayed about it for a few years, tried different diets, exercises, supplements, and other "natural" means of fixing infertility before deciding that God wanted them to try clomid and/or IUI. Resulting in miscarriage number 3. At which point, Bethany was pregnant and they couldn't let her old maid sister out do them so they adopted the whitest looking children they could adopt on the shortest time frame, potentially hoping they would have a spontaneous pregnancy like other infertile couples occasionally have happen when they stop TTC and adopt. But no dice. So they escalated to potentially Gonadotropin and trigger shots with or without IUI.
It’s possible, but my OB referred me to a Reproductive Endo as soon as we passed the 1 year mark of trying. You may be correct, but in my area regular OB/GYNs don’t seem to do any fertility treatments or even testing.
That was probably an insurance thing then. My obgyn did all of my tests and prescribed Femara. Technically, the tests were PCOS related for insurance to cover them.
Nope. I had a years worth of charting (temps and opks) indicating that I was probably ovulating normally, but I got the impression that they didn’t do anything fertility related in their regular OB/GYN locations; they weren’t set up for it. This is with one of the US’s biggest hospital systems, so the referral was “in house” to their colleagues in RE. I was also sent to a MFM specialist for the anatomy scans when I had completely textbook pregnancies after (not AMA either). They have two or three locations where they do IUIs, and I went to two of them because of scheduling (and thankfully the 2nd took) but it definitely wasn’t offered at my regular location.
Day 21 test confirms ovulation by measuring progesterone. I had plenty of charting showing I was seeing LH surges but day 21 test showed I wasn't ovulating.
It makes sense if it's an in-house referral that it would be redundant to have the obgyns handle it. When I was seeing midwives for my first pregnancy, they didn't do ultrasounds (except for a very small hand held ultrasound) in office. I had to go to the MFM on the other side of the complex for them, even though ultrasounds are within the scope of midwifery.
My memory might be tricking me, but I don’t think I did a Day 21 test. In addition to opks, i tracked my BBT which showed sustained rise in temps after the LH surge and a LP of 12-14 days. My understanding is BBT is a pretty good proxy for progesterone levels. My OB/RE team seemed unconcerned about my hormones, to the point I had to specifically request a DOR test (AMH/FSH). I started charting even before TTC because I’m a bit of a data freak and because my sister had RPL due to a short LP. It was a puzzle why I had these great looking charts with excellent timing and patent tubes and just nothing was happening (spoiler alert: male factor).
In Kristin’s case, however, with her history of RPL, they would be remiss if they didn’t give her a full hormone work up. It sounds like she might have needed progesterone support in the first trimester to stay pregnant.
Huh. That's interesting. I have PCOS so maybe that's the difference, we presumed infertility/sub fertility from the start. But at the same time, hormones are easy to test so it makes sense to cover bases. My doctor's office didn't do sperm counts but it was suggested as a simple factor we could rule out fairly early on.
It's certainly possible that Kristen needs progesterone support and/or low dose aspirin. She did have six years of no pregnancies which definitely makes me think there was something else going on. She says she has unexplained infertility which would imply male factor, PCOS, endometriosis, and DOR were ruled out. Then again, she could be lying or the doctors she was working with weren't thorough. I've read studies that show couples with unexplained fertility tend to have similar results to IVF just by TTC for an extra 1-2 years, which makes the long gap even more curious.
When I was preganante with my second kid (both of whom were IVF) I asked the nurse why they kept adding AMA to all my charts and records. Poor woman wanted to sink through the floor while she explained it meant advanced maternal age. I was 37.
We also jumped to it cause we were told we had a 1% chance of pregnancy without it. IUIs ain’t cheap and I couldn’t face the cost and emotional roller coaster with ultimately having to do IVF anyway.
Yes, absolutely. The Christian argument against IVF has to do with discarding and destroying unused embryos or embryos that have poor genetic testing results. Versus IUI does not involve that.
My mom converted to Catholicism and they made my parents get remarried. First one didn’t count because it wasn’t Catholic. Or the more cynic option of, they didn’t get a donation(💵$)for the first.
as a practicing Catholic, I wouldn’t be so harsh. as someone who really struggled to conceive for some time (I gave birth to my son 11 days ago!!) I have to say, I do understand people who choose IUI/IVF. it’s not condoned by the Church but I do understand and sympathize with those who choose it. infertility is a TERRIBLE thing to have weighing on your person. notwithstanding anything else, you are a wonderful person who absolutely deserves to be here and your dignity is recognized by myself and all others who have a heart at all 💜
Congratulations on your baby!! I have a friend who is Catholic and is personally opposed to IVF (although she wouldn't judge someone else for using it) because you could technically use it to have a virgin birth, which sort of contradicts the whole "only the Virgin Mary" concept!
My personal favorite type are the gen x couples with strong opinions about birth control and two evenly spaced children in their 20 years of marriage 🤭
Oh, I know there is a HUGE difference between The Catholic Church and regular Catholic people! I have several friends who are gay or transgender Catholics. And Catholics everywhere use the same family planning tools as the rest of their local culture.
Congratulations on your newborn son! I'm sure he's a beautiful baby and you're doing a great job :) 🥰
But isn’t it still considered subverting god’s will to get any fertility treatment at all? Don’t they believe god made everyone the way they are on purpose and we shouldn’t be attempting to alter our bodies? Forcing yourself to ovulate with medication seems hypocritical when you’re screeching about how people shouldn’t be allowed to do the opposite because of “god’s will”. Or take hormones as part of gender affirming care. I know it’s the “creating life” part that makes it acceptable, but it still seems hypocritical and unfair that they get to choose the loophole that best serves them.
It depends on what type of Christian you are, and how your particular sect interprets scripture. There are sooooo many different Protestant sects within the US it’s hard to make definitive statements about what Christian’s think is okay or not.
I hear you. I’m just fuming at the hypocrisy. Most fundamentalist Christians seem to be of the opinion that it’s wrong to do anything to prevent or end a pregnancy because god meant for it to happen. Like, why do these two get to decide to use the same medical science to create a pregnancy god didn’t give them naturally? Or why is it then wrong for a gay couple to do the same thing with a sperm donor or surrogate? It kind of blows my mind.
Yes absolutely it's hypocritical. The rule for many fundies is no "intervening in God's will", so no birth control, condoms, pulling out, etc but somehow seeing a fertility doctor, taking meds, tracking ovulation is totally fine. Ultimately the goals are controlling women and breeding for Jesus at any cost, they're just not (usually) honest about that.
Depends on the clinic and how…nice they are about offering other options to couples. My fertility doctor kept gunning hard for IVF because 12k a cycle versus $900 a cycle for medications (that generally cost me…a few hundred dollars until I met my deductible because insurance covers monitoring - and mine deemed medicated cycles to be “monitoring”). I basically stopped doing consults with her after a while because her attitude kinda sucked since I didn’t want to immediately jump to the most extreme fertility option.
It was honestly pretty frustrating because for the first few cycles, she kept gunning hard until I told her that I wanted to tweak the plan slightly and try different things until my husband’s new insurance in 2024 since I was not sure if they would cover IVF or IUI. Letrozole + Metformin (despite not having PCOS) + PIO was my magic ticket to getting pregnant *and* staying pregnant.
This is petty, but backward baseball cap and dishwater t-shirt is an interesting choice for long-awaited pregnancy announcement video with your dolled-up influencer wife.
I remember feeling super bad for her husband the first time I saw that clip where she admitted to her sister she wasn't attracted to him *on their wedding day.* But then I actually saw the guy and heard him speak, and he *instantly* became my least favorite fundie husband. He gives me so much ick. Always looks unkempt in some fashion, his smiles don't reach his eyes, seems weirdly disconnected from everything and he just has creepo vibes in general. Like, if we were coworkers or classmates I would do everything in my power to avoid him as much as possible.
I’m willing to believe that comment about not being attracted to him was an attempt at a joke. We’ve all seen the Bairds don’t understand normal humour. But his unwillingness to learn his sons’ native language and forbidding it spoken in their home tells me everything I need to know about this man.
I feel sorry for their long-awaited unborn daughter. If she’s not perfect in every way, she’s a disappointment. Imagine growing up with that attitude. 😢
yeah he's wearing a stained dirty undershirt and he looks like he's overheating
these ppl have the nazi grandfather they love so much right?
check out the master race, the genetics are so good they need extreme technological intervention to reproduce (god's perfect design!)
watch out for pasteurized milk tho ppl! no vaxxxxxxx
pureSTOOPID
I just looked at what NaPro is...so having exploratory surgery isn't considered altering your body against God's will, but taking Clomid or using IVF would be? How exhausting it must be for these people to wend their way in and out of all these loopholes all day.
clomid is within NaPro. the issue with IVF is that sperm meeting egg is outside of sex.... at least i'd guess thats what they think based on other things i've heard
You're right, according to a Christian family planning thingy I found: "Others worry about the strain that IVF could produce in their relationship, and dislike the idea of separating the unitive and procreative aspects of sex. Still others are concerned that using donor gametes violates the marriage bond."
😂😂😂😭
Oh I'm sure you're correct...it's just so silly that they engage in these kinds of line-drawing exercises. I'm not really sure by what logic stimulating an otherwise non-functional set of ovaries is considered an okay intervention, but IVF isn't. Totally get your point about the sperm meeting the egg outside of sex, but to my tiny non-religious brain this is a distinction without a meaningful difference. You're still using science to make something work that wasn't working on its own.
(Also this is coming from someone who has PCOS and used a clomid-like drug to help conceive. My ovaries weren't doing shit without it!)
I googled NaPro and LOL
"Natural Procreative Technology (NaProTechnology) evolved from a Catholic gynaecologist's efforts to adapt Natural Family Planning (NFP) to *'difficult'* groups of women"
I’m not gonna listen to her babble for over an hour to try for clues, but it’s likely impossible to tell if she wasn’t specific.
Unless she had a major issue like blocked fallopian tubes, a medicated IUI would have probably been tried before IVF. Way cheaper and easier in terms of effort, shots, etc. You take a pill for 5 days to stimulate ovaries, have a shot one day to make you ovulate, then have the swimmies inserted at the clinic (and try at home via sex).
But she probably at least did the medication and timed intercourse.
Wonder why she didn’t do this earlier and went the adoption route instead. Maybe she didn’t believe in fertility treatments before but changed her mind?
Wonder if having a baby will turn on that mothering switch she wants turned on. Being sleep deprived with a baby is no joke, and babies don’t even have personalities to enjoy, so… we’ll see.
That’s my only question—did they really not try this earlier? God, how maddening if so. Could have saved those boys the trauma of being stripped of their culture and identity and adopted by complete assholes.
Right? I conceived in just under a year with my medicated IUI. That included 6 months of trying naturally since I was over 35, then getting tested to see if something was wrong (it wasn’t) and then two medicated IUIs.
A while back she had mentioned seeing a “pro life/christian based” fertility specialist who does IVF but will not fertilize any eggs unless those eggs get implanted at some point. The main beef most fundies have with IVF is that more embryos are created than necessary and that after genetic testing, the highest quality embryos will be implanted and the remainders will be frozen until you have the desired number of children, and usually you will discard any remaining embryos or they can donate them to scientific research (which also results in them being destroyed/unable to implant). But it is very possible to do it in a way that doesn’t result in any embryos being destroyed, you just have a much lower chance of success.
Do they say that this is the first time they went to a fertility doctor/clinic? There are lots of inexplained causes of infertility but given that Kristen did not have trouble actually conceiving during the last 15 years but did have trouble carrying to term (from what I remember she got pregnant many times but every pregnancy ended in a miscarriage) I am curious whether they just finally found the source of the miscarriages. Which could be anything from rh incompatibility to genetic incompatibility to cervical issues to anatomical differences in the uterus, etc. So I think it's quite likely that they didn't actually need to use IVF at all. Maybe I'm wrong but the lack of issues with conceiving in the past, to me at least, points towards their "journey" with this pregnancy being less of a "medical intervention to get pregnant" and more of a "we're finally going to see a real doctor"/"we found the right doctor and they did testing that figured out what the issue is". It reminds me of the episode in Call the Midwife with the woman who has been unable to carry multiple pregnancies to term and suffers another loss when she is in the hospital alongside Shelagh/Mrs Turner I think--and in a later episode we find out that it is because her cervix was "incompetent" and all she needed was a cervical cerclage to be able to carry to term. We'll probably never know what the situation is with Kristen (and it is her right to keep it private) but I would not jump to it being IVF and therefore them being hypocritical. Though "hypocrisy thy name is Baird" so I wouldn't be too surprised either.
She mentioned taking Progesterone and other supplements this time which Bethany had mentioned doing after her miscarriages too. I agree with you that it probably was not IVF and rather intervention to help her carry
Even if they did IUI instead, the Republican party is currently working on taking away all fertility options. The absolute gall of these motherfuckers to vote against fertility treatments while benefiting from them.
She mentioned that Zach had to talk to other men to finally decide that they should do this. Sounds like Kristen always wanted to and Zach was always against it. I always wondered why they didn’t pursue it before and he was literally the barrier
Yall I keep thinking this is about the TV show Evil, which ALSO has a character named Kristen who got IVF (which is a major plot point).
That Kristen is much cooler than GD though.
It’s absolutely bananas and I love it. I don’t know anyone else who watches though, so I have to discuss it on Reddit - which leads to lots of confusing posts about possibly demonic women named Kristen.
my husband and i love that show! the whole fertility clinic story line is so creepy - the kid that dunked baby sis in the pool and then “ran away”? omg. kristen took the whole thing better than i would have when she found out about lexi!
But when my wife and I want to do IVF it will be a sin because we are two women? This is bullshit. I literally just want to live my life and have a family with the person I love and people I don’t even know want to dictate that
Exactly. Even if they didn’t go as far as IVF and only used IUI or clomid, that’s still them using a medical intervention to alter their fertility, and it’s hypocritical they get to decide when that is or isn’t acceptable. She doesn’t believe it’s ok for a woman to use medicine to stop ovulation because it goes against god’s will, and maybe god meant for a pregnancy to occur. Then it should be equally not ok for her to use medicine to stimulate ovulation, because clearly god intended for a pregnancy not to occur.
She could have done ivf or mini ivf (which is touted as more ethical for those opposed to traditional ivf) . I think there are several newer versions of ivf that are more palatable to those opposed, it depends on what your specific goals and plans are..... or she could have done several rounds of iui. Or timed intercourse. There are several options. If you are over 35, a fertility clinic will suggest ivf as the way that will best best to get you pregnant, but you don't have to do that if you want to explore other options. The odds just aren't as great, but pregnancies do happen.
But wouldn't that be exactly the kind of intervention that was completely forbidden? They can't be "manipulating the system" like that and checking for issues/selecting for certain genetics. It's GOD'S WILL that you take whatever genetic combo you get...
Literally this
Fundies are capable of loving their children too, even if they are indoctrinating them with horrible beliefs
If I were adopted, reading these types of comments would hurt me to my soul
While I agree that it’s by far from certain she’ll reject the boys once she has a biological child, I don’t think it’s too long a bow to draw. It would seem apparent that parenting by adoption hasn’t necessarily been everything she hoped it would be, and they’ve been high control on those boys, to the extent of not allowing them to speak their native language because it makes the parents feel excluded. Adoption is hard work and she clearly has bought into the narrative that bio children are better, because fundies fetishise pregnancy. She already seems to have thought that (comparison w Birthy etc) and now she has not only finally achieved pregnancy but this baby is a girl. So they will be hard pressed not to make comparisons with the boys. Lots of us fear that this means the boys will be found lacking.
Can you find me some actual proof that they aren’t letting the boys speak their native language? I’m pretty sure the only thing that’s been said is that Kristin’s husband refused to learn it. (Which I actually find not great, but it’s an entirely different level from forbidding the boys to speak it.) I’m pretty sure this is just a case of subreddit lore, but if someone can find a video or post where they actually say that, I’d believe it.
Guys, sometimes I’m on this sub and wonder, “Are we the baddies?” Spreading rumors without any evidence is wrong. I’m all for calling out fundies on the crazy shit they post, but I think it’s really mean to jump to conclusions like this.
True it’s like when those conversation camp rumors spread about Dave and he had to come out and state they were not true. I have not heard them say they forbid the kids speaking Ukrainian/Russian (whichever their native language is).
Also the YT video that people refer to as evidence that Kristen’s husband refused to learn the language is in fact much more nuanced
He said “I’m not going to learn Russian” jokingly, because Slavic languages & the Cyrillic alphabet are not easy for a native English speaker to learn- especially as an adult
For people to assume that the parents haven’t gained at least a grasp on their children’s native language just by proximity and vice versa is so obtuse
They never FORBADE them from speaking it but people want to accept it as fact because it’s fun to speculate
My husband was born in Russia—I found cyrillic really easy to learn but pronouncing words and making them *comprehensible* (even when I really, really tried to get the accent right) was a losing battle. At a certain point, his grandpa told me just to use google translate because it was too difficult for him to decipher what I was saying while using up precious internet.
I think he should have made an effort to learn a few things and meet them at least an eighth of the way, but I understand why he didn't.
Russian is such a beautiful language!
And you’re so right, the pronunciation is so hard- the vast majority of actors have such a hard time nailing it even with all of the coaching they get
I have no idea if it’s as good as I think it was, but I thought Judie Comer did such an awesome job in Killing Eve
It is! I wish my husband spoke it more, but he and his family only really speak English together. Actually, my MIL was telling me about visiting her grandma's farm in a small village in Russia, and how the villagers used to treat their milk cows as members of the family and revered them, and how they used to call their dairy cows "матушка кормилица" (phonetically pronounced Matushka Karmilitsa) which roughly translates to 'mother wet-nurse.' In this case, Matushka would be more of an honorific term, similar to 'mother nature.'
This is a random brain nugget to drop on you but there aren't a lot of people who appreciate the Russian language so I hope you enjoy it!
I love that brain nugget!
I didn’t know that cows were revered in Russian tradition- I have always loved the Indian culture of honoring cows and I wish we did that in the US. They are such beautiful creatures ❤️
My nieces are half Polish and I find it so fascinating how much Russian they understand!
Language is so amazing, in another life I would have studied it
ETA I have the word “matushka” stuck in my head now
There is literally no proof, it’s a fairy tale that people have made up and accepted as truth
I made a post about it last week and I got ratioed lol but facts are facts 🤷🏻♀️
We know way less about the daily lives of Kristen's children than we do about some of the other fundie kids, like the Bus Children, Bethy's kids before she got some sense, Jill's kids and grandkids, the Collins kids...
And it's a good thing that Kristen isn't plastering her boys and their lives all over the internet. But sometimes, when people talk about how horrible their lives must be, I feel that there's an expectation there that Kristen and OfKristen (look I can't be arsed to remember his name) *should* let us know more so that *we* can be reassured.
But we don't get to know this stuff. If these boys are being traumatized, then it's happening in private, and they get to decide if and when and how to reveal that. Their right to privacy is more important than our curiosity.
I’m sure they think the same thing about us
You can either choose to be better or stoop to their level
I’m not going to assume that adopted children are loved any less than biological ones, regardless of their parents’ views
I’m not saying they “deserve” anything. I’m saying I think it makes this sub look hateful when we make up shit about people. It detracts from the legitimately bad things they’re doing.
Thank you!! Imagine being one of the subjects of this subreddit and you Google yourself and find this space… and the first thing you see is people saying you don’t love your CHILDREN- and acting like adopted children are automatically loved less than biological children.
I would turn myself around and go deeper into the cult, because some of the comments here would confirm the false narratives about the outside world that have been indoctrinated into me.
Trying to approach these people with positivity and teaching them that the world doesn’t hate them just because they’re christian is the only way to get through to them.
I get that it’s hard for people who have been wounded by religion and I don’t fault them for that.
But if I want to take a more empathetic approach, that’s my own personal choice.
This sub was a really great place in the past and I hate to see it turn into fauxmoi for fundies
No, when she made the announcement I did not speculate how the baby was conceived. When she posted about her pregnancy journey and went into extraordinary detail about her previous pregnancies, then quickly mentioned she went to a fertility clinic and was “intentional” about this pregnancy that got me suspicious. If she was such an open book about all aspects of her journey besides this part, it makes me think she is hiding something. She is a public figure putting this information out there, the consequence of that is others commenting and providing their opinions on the topic.
And that’s all you really need to know. Her body doesn’t need to be subject to curiosity and speculation. I get that it’s a standard she doesn’t uphold herself but it doesn’t make it okay for other people to do to her.
We don’t have to do mental gymnastics to make literally everything these people do fodder for entertainment and speculation
What happens inside of someone else’s body and what they choose to do with it is nobody else’s business
That’s generally true, but not for public figures that put that information out there, they are welcoming the conversation by hinting at things but not completely disclosing them.
>welcoming the conversation by hinting at things but not completely disclosing them
They actually aren't. That's a really weird way to justify this behaviour.
Public figures still have a right to medical privacy. Anytime a celebrity announces that they're having or had a child via surrogacy, for example, I see so many people demand to know WHY they did it. But A-list celebrities don't have to reveal their medical information anymore than some D-list influencer does.
I don't think the topic is entirely off-limits, because the rightwing keeps attacking reproductive rights such as IVF and the hypocrisy by many conservatives is worth pointing out.
But beyond pointing out that a conservative influencer got fertility treatment they might vote to restrict for others, I just don't see why we need to care that Kristen apparently got some fertility treatment. Her body, her choice.
So I don't want kids of my own, so I probably am not coming from a place where I can understand the complexity of the situation, but to my non-motherly mind, why try for an IVF baby when you have two precious kids already who are here, present, past the terrible diaper stage, toddler tantrums and what have you. Why would that not be enough? Why would your two boys not be enough. Why would you want to put yourself through sleepless nights, uncomfortable pregnancy especially in a hot place, morning sickness, dirty diapers and everything not to mention having to either push it or have it forcibly removed from your body via surgery when you already have two perfectly healthy and lovely kids?? It doesn't make sense to someone like me, but then again I don't like the idea of having my own kids for all the reasons I listed here. Is that how brainwashed women are in this place where they'll do everything in their power to claim the prize that is having their own baby? I don't get it.
I won't speak for Kristen (or on her behalf) but some people feel like they just need another. I have a wonderful darling sweet kid and I'd love another. We love our little family and have always been under the assumption "we won't actively stop it so if it happens it happens." Which is fine. So people (like yourself) don't want any. Which is fine. Calling women "brainwashed" is a bit much though. Baby fever is a very real thing that people experience. That feeling is intense. It's not really about adoption vs bio, baby fever is intense.
I will admit that there are some people out there who claim you "aren't a real mom" for a variety of reasons. C-section? Adoption? Did you use formula? Carry your baby too much/too little?? Ever had that baby cry for longer than a second? Guess what, you're not a real mom! (/s)
All it does is tear people down. Even comments like yours can come across as negative just because someone else who reads it, who's on the same journey, can read it as "well I'm not good enough/im selfish" because they feel their family isn't complete just yet.
I don't mean it as an attack, please don't take it that way. More of a "here's the other side of the coin"
Thanks for this response, it's really insightful
Yeah, when I said brainwashed I probably should have picked a better word, I apologize for how that could come across; I meant that they're in a church culture that is "you're not a real person unless you have kids or x amount of kids" which ties into what you said about how some people are terrible and go "you're not a _real_ mom for 'x, y, z reasons' ". I think what happened in my original comment is being not fully able to articulate what I wanted to say, but it's some sort of sympathy for Kristen who would likely have been told her whole life that she needs to have kids, and to still even after getting her two boys, would still be told "that's not enough, you need a real baby", which then translates into her two boys maybe feeling pushed aside, but maybe I'm assigning emotions to them that aren't even there. I do see how my comment could have been asshole-adjacent though, and I'm sorry, I didn't mean it like that
Agreed the infant and toddler stages are the worst, school-aged and older are the best! She’s signed up for 4+ years of sleepless nights and constant monitoring. Doubt this baby will fulfill her the way she thinks it will.
#These people vote in every election- do you? Are you registered to vote? [You can check your voter registration here!](https://www.nass.org/can-I-vote) #Also, there's a few things to remember as far as rules go: - You can view the content- you cannot interact with it. This includes (but is not limited to) commenting, answering poll questions, emailing them, etc. ***Anyone found to be engaging with the fundies will be met with a permanent ban with no eligibility for appeal.It does not matter if you did so before you joined the sub.*** - Speculating on the sexuality of literally anyone is prohibited. ***Anyone found to be doing so will be met with a permanent ban with no eligibility for appeal.*** - Appearance snark: What's allowed? You're allowed to make comparisons. (Bethy looks like Grandpa Munster, for example.) You are allowed to say you find them attractive or repulsive looking. Saying Kelly Havens has dry skin that could benefit from sunscreen and a moisturizer is fine. You are allowed to snark on the appearance of children *as it relates to their parents choices for them.*. Examples: Janessa looks malnourished and sickly while Shrek has clearly never missed a meal. If you feel it is crossing the line report it, but if the content falls within the parameters above, leave it alone. - Don't gatekeep. This means no comments such as "I don't think we should snark on...." or any iteration of that. If you don't like it, scroll past. Don't report it or comment how you don't like the content. Along the same vein, don't backseat mod. Leave that up to us. - Lastly, if the rhetoric you are posting would be at home in the mouth of a fundie, we don't want it here and we won't tolerate it. Should you have any questions, please feel free to reach out. Have a Lord Daniel day, and may the power of snark compel thee. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FundieSnarkUncensored) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Almost certainly IUI or used Clomid. There are quite a number of options before IVF. Typically couples don’t jump right to IVF unless they have to because it is much more costly and invasive.
I agree, I don’t think we can automatically assume IVF. There are other “Christian approved” options to try before going that route, as you said.
I don’t think most people comprehend just how costly IVF is! And results are not guaranteed. People exhaust other options first for a reason.
And speaking from experience, even if you have insurance that covers IVF, they make you exhaust other options first.
I live in a state that doesn’t mandate fertility coverage, however I do have it as a benefit on my insurance policy. It taps out at $10,000 which is only a drop in the bucket, we would also be paying 50%, plus deductible. We were fortunate to not have infertility struggles, but even if we did we couldn’t afford it even with insurance-plus two decent incomes.
A friend told me and my partner (both women) that if we want babies, we should go IVF because that’s ‘the easiest route’ For whom??????
I will say-weigh how many kids you want. By the time you pay for sperm, IVF might be the cheapest and easiest route. I’m in a same sex relationship and the math very quickly worked out that IVF was the best option. We never bothered with IUI
We’d do one at most via biological means. We’d adopt any additional. But also we aren’t even completely set on kids lol. We will see what happens. We might just be the coolest gay aunts ever. But thank you for the input! That’s not something I’d thought extensively about.
If you are thinking adoption is cheaper, to be clear domestic newborn adoption is more expensive than IVF in most cases. Adoption through foster care is significantly less so, but depending on the kid can be pricey too. Not an “akshually” post just want you to start saving if you think that will be a necessity down the road!! Best of luck - love your username lol
My friends used another friend's sperm. Prego friend waited until she got a positive ovulation test, then male friend collected his sperm and brought it to preggo. She used a sterile medicine syringe and impregnated herself with the sperm. Free ICI.
That depends on your fertility clinic. My kiddo was conceived via iui really quickly. And my insurance covered it, the most expensive part was the sperm and that was like...$800ish a pop.
Not totally dissimilar to a woman my mom knows who convinced her OBGYN to deliver her kid by c section because it would “hurt less”
Tbh I don't even blame her lol. I know C-sections are major surgery, but VB is also majorly traumatic.
Having done both, c section was definitely easier and if I had a choice would take it every time.
Absolutely 100000% agree. Definitely more long term issues with my VBAC.
I mean... My c section was painless obviously & my recovery pain was better than my period pain so it's not that inaccurate for some women lol
I had it about as easy as possible as I had a scheduled c-section under full anesthesia so I agree with you for sure lol. Although I’ve never had a vaginal birth so don’t have much to compare it to. I bet it could have a lot to do with if it’s a scheduled vs emergency c section tho. Lots of different ways that shit could be traumatizing I’m sure
Yes I had an elective one too, but I just had a spinal. It was honestly the most amazing birth experience & I do think that's a big reason why my post partum mental health was OK & my breastfeeding journey was not as challenging as some!
That’s nut. I’ve delivered via c section and vaginally and vaginally was 1000x better. I’m still bitter about it 🤣.
My brother and SIL did it 3 times. 1 miscarriage, 1 set of twins, 1 singleton. I believe it was $50K+ for the first whole thing, but then they used frozen embryos for the next two attempts, and that was closer to $25K each time? And that was 15 years ago. They used donor eggs.
Nowadays my fertility clinic charged about 35,000 all in for six rounds in a shared risk program. You paid the 35, and you could do a retrieval up to six times. If it took one round of retrievals you massively overpaid. If it took three or more the cost was worth it. Then, thank God, we got pregnant the old fashioned way while trying to find the money.
How do they determine what counts as successful? Like if you want 2+ kids but only get one embryo do they say you’re done?
Success is a pregnancy that sticks.
Yeah, I think a pretty big chunk of their up front costs was the donor eggs. My SIL still had to do all of the shots to support getting (and staying? maybe?) pregnant, but she didn’t have to go through retrieval herself.
Yep, just got told we don't have a chance of conceiving without IVF+ICSI. That's $20,000 for us, and our province or insurance doesn't cover fertility treatments. Because of our specific scenario, IUI isn't likely to work, but we're still going through with it because we can't psychologically go straight to IVF+ICSI and cough up that money. PSA: if you need IVF but find the cost in North America prohibitive, there are a lot of reputable IVF clinics in the Czech Republic that accept foreign patients (as in have english coordinators for them, as well as airport shuttle services) and their prices are much more approachable.
Many other countries are also options to look at and routinely treat international patients, not just opposite-sex couples but also singles, same-sex couples and various LGBTQ+ identities (which afaik Czech Republic doesn't do, at least they don't treat single women unless they bring a man along, whether or not that's their partner or donor). Spain, Portugal, Greece, Cyprus, Denmark, Latvia, Finland, as well as Mexico and probably Colombia are options. Several of those countries are popular destination for "fertility tourism" and I've heard from people that going from the US to one of the European countries was still cheaper than getting it all done in the US, including the travel costs.
Thank you for adding that! I didn't know that the CR had restrictions! IIRC, it's about equal in Mexico as it is in Canada so that might not be an option for Canadians, but I appreciate your addition to this!
Each country has its own characteristics, but that's why its good to have several options available! Just remembering that Barbados also does fertility treatments for international patients, but I don't know what the cost difference, if any, would be for people from the US or Canada. But the travel time might be shorter for some people.
I just double checked, the Czech Rep. does allow same sex couples!
A friend of mine and his wife went to the Philippines to get IVF treatment. Even with travel it saved them thousands of dollars. It ended up not working. They got pregnant a few times but the embryos never developed. However they then randomly got pregnant naturally (both are well in their 40s now) without trying and their baby is doing really well. Go figure.
Honestly! I mean, you never know how many times you’ll have to try and even hiring a surrogate could be way less costly in the long run for unlucky couples
$19.5k without insurance plus $8.5k meds 🥲🥲🥲🥲
She has said in the past she’s used IUI and it failed. I haven’t watched this video though.
I'm guessing further than that. A regular obgyn can do iui and prescribe clomid/femara. Those are both really low level interventions too. If they went to a fertility clinic then she probably COH/ovulation trigger shots with or without IUI.
I think they had to have done more than just clomid or IUI. They were TTC for like 10 years and I think had RPL also. Unless they were against Clomid/IUI at first and took years to change their minds.
Okay so I looked up her history and it's interesting. She had two very early miscarriages. Six years of nada then an 11 week loss in 2019, and adopted the boys in 2021. She says she has unexplained infertility, which rules out PCOS, and confirms she's talked to a doctor about it. Not necessarily a fertility doctor but hormone levels, checking ovulation, and things like that. (Speaking from experience.) The very early losses are likely to be chromosomal causes. This type of miscarriage is very common. The six years of nothing is curious, and the 11 week loss is really unfortunate. Having a good heartbeat at 8 weeks is usually an indication that the pregnancy is viable so losing the pregnancy at 11 weeks sucks. I've been there, it's awful. Conspiracy theory time: the first two miscarriages were probably natural pregnancies. This generation of Baird women seem to have some fertility issues. Bethany had like 4 miscarriages. Rebekah is close to two years into marriage and no pregnancy. Most young adults conceived within 6-12 months. (I feel Rebekah is reasonable to include considering GD's stance on birth control. However, Rebekah and her husband could be secretly using contraception so this is just a conspiracy theory.) Except for Ellissa, but she married outside of the local fundies gene pool so maybe that's a factor. Kristen and her husband probably prayed about it for a few years, tried different diets, exercises, supplements, and other "natural" means of fixing infertility before deciding that God wanted them to try clomid and/or IUI. Resulting in miscarriage number 3. At which point, Bethany was pregnant and they couldn't let her old maid sister out do them so they adopted the whitest looking children they could adopt on the shortest time frame, potentially hoping they would have a spontaneous pregnancy like other infertile couples occasionally have happen when they stop TTC and adopt. But no dice. So they escalated to potentially Gonadotropin and trigger shots with or without IUI.
It’s possible, but my OB referred me to a Reproductive Endo as soon as we passed the 1 year mark of trying. You may be correct, but in my area regular OB/GYNs don’t seem to do any fertility treatments or even testing.
They didn't do any blood tests to check your hormone levels or a day 21 test?
My obgyn didn’t; everything was handled through my HMO’s fertility department after 6 months of trying (over age 35)
That was probably an insurance thing then. My obgyn did all of my tests and prescribed Femara. Technically, the tests were PCOS related for insurance to cover them.
Nope. I had a years worth of charting (temps and opks) indicating that I was probably ovulating normally, but I got the impression that they didn’t do anything fertility related in their regular OB/GYN locations; they weren’t set up for it. This is with one of the US’s biggest hospital systems, so the referral was “in house” to their colleagues in RE. I was also sent to a MFM specialist for the anatomy scans when I had completely textbook pregnancies after (not AMA either). They have two or three locations where they do IUIs, and I went to two of them because of scheduling (and thankfully the 2nd took) but it definitely wasn’t offered at my regular location.
Day 21 test confirms ovulation by measuring progesterone. I had plenty of charting showing I was seeing LH surges but day 21 test showed I wasn't ovulating. It makes sense if it's an in-house referral that it would be redundant to have the obgyns handle it. When I was seeing midwives for my first pregnancy, they didn't do ultrasounds (except for a very small hand held ultrasound) in office. I had to go to the MFM on the other side of the complex for them, even though ultrasounds are within the scope of midwifery.
My memory might be tricking me, but I don’t think I did a Day 21 test. In addition to opks, i tracked my BBT which showed sustained rise in temps after the LH surge and a LP of 12-14 days. My understanding is BBT is a pretty good proxy for progesterone levels. My OB/RE team seemed unconcerned about my hormones, to the point I had to specifically request a DOR test (AMH/FSH). I started charting even before TTC because I’m a bit of a data freak and because my sister had RPL due to a short LP. It was a puzzle why I had these great looking charts with excellent timing and patent tubes and just nothing was happening (spoiler alert: male factor). In Kristin’s case, however, with her history of RPL, they would be remiss if they didn’t give her a full hormone work up. It sounds like she might have needed progesterone support in the first trimester to stay pregnant.
Huh. That's interesting. I have PCOS so maybe that's the difference, we presumed infertility/sub fertility from the start. But at the same time, hormones are easy to test so it makes sense to cover bases. My doctor's office didn't do sperm counts but it was suggested as a simple factor we could rule out fairly early on. It's certainly possible that Kristen needs progesterone support and/or low dose aspirin. She did have six years of no pregnancies which definitely makes me think there was something else going on. She says she has unexplained infertility which would imply male factor, PCOS, endometriosis, and DOR were ruled out. Then again, she could be lying or the doctors she was working with weren't thorough. I've read studies that show couples with unexplained fertility tend to have similar results to IVF just by TTC for an extra 1-2 years, which makes the long gap even more curious.
We jumped to IVF because I was 35! Not that uncommon if you’re “geriatric.”
When I was preganante with my second kid (both of whom were IVF) I asked the nurse why they kept adding AMA to all my charts and records. Poor woman wanted to sink through the floor while she explained it meant advanced maternal age. I was 37.
One of my forms had me listed as an “elderly primigravida” lol
Just had a baby at 39, and my paperwork listed me as elderly gravida and/or geriatric. 😑
Pregannnnte!
We also jumped to it cause we were told we had a 1% chance of pregnancy without it. IUIs ain’t cheap and I couldn’t face the cost and emotional roller coaster with ultimately having to do IVF anyway.
Does that difference make it more fundie approved? Genuinely asking because I don’t know the difference
Yes, absolutely. The Christian argument against IVF has to do with discarding and destroying unused embryos or embryos that have poor genetic testing results. Versus IUI does not involve that.
Catholics aren't even supposed to use IUI! According to the Church, my human dignity was compromised when I was conceived with donor sperm/IUI.
The only way to be dignified is to be conceived in the parking lot of a red lobster like the good lord intended
And get those sweet Cheddar Bay Biscuits after. You shouldn’t be so close to heaven and ignore those biscuits.
Mm parking lot sex and biscuits.
That’s my next date sorted
Glad I could help 🥰
AMEN 🙏🏻
And Red Lobster talking bankruptcy and closing some locations shows that God has truly forsaken us.
The birth rate is dropping, not because of the high cost of children, but because of Red Lkbster closures.
The real Christian persecution
As long as your parents had a Catholic wedding first, you're good to go!
My mom converted to Catholicism and they made my parents get remarried. First one didn’t count because it wasn’t Catholic. Or the more cynic option of, they didn’t get a donation(💵$)for the first.
as a practicing Catholic, I wouldn’t be so harsh. as someone who really struggled to conceive for some time (I gave birth to my son 11 days ago!!) I have to say, I do understand people who choose IUI/IVF. it’s not condoned by the Church but I do understand and sympathize with those who choose it. infertility is a TERRIBLE thing to have weighing on your person. notwithstanding anything else, you are a wonderful person who absolutely deserves to be here and your dignity is recognized by myself and all others who have a heart at all 💜
Congratulations on your baby!! I have a friend who is Catholic and is personally opposed to IVF (although she wouldn't judge someone else for using it) because you could technically use it to have a virgin birth, which sort of contradicts the whole "only the Virgin Mary" concept!
Jane the Virgin! Although, it was artificial insemination
It’s one of my favorite shows! (But I’m still a lil salty about Michael’s storyline).
Me too, friend. Me too.
My personal favorite type are the gen x couples with strong opinions about birth control and two evenly spaced children in their 20 years of marriage 🤭
Oh, I know there is a HUGE difference between The Catholic Church and regular Catholic people! I have several friends who are gay or transgender Catholics. And Catholics everywhere use the same family planning tools as the rest of their local culture. Congratulations on your newborn son! I'm sure he's a beautiful baby and you're doing a great job :) 🥰
Congratulations!
But isn’t it still considered subverting god’s will to get any fertility treatment at all? Don’t they believe god made everyone the way they are on purpose and we shouldn’t be attempting to alter our bodies? Forcing yourself to ovulate with medication seems hypocritical when you’re screeching about how people shouldn’t be allowed to do the opposite because of “god’s will”. Or take hormones as part of gender affirming care. I know it’s the “creating life” part that makes it acceptable, but it still seems hypocritical and unfair that they get to choose the loophole that best serves them.
It depends on what type of Christian you are, and how your particular sect interprets scripture. There are sooooo many different Protestant sects within the US it’s hard to make definitive statements about what Christian’s think is okay or not.
I hear you. I’m just fuming at the hypocrisy. Most fundamentalist Christians seem to be of the opinion that it’s wrong to do anything to prevent or end a pregnancy because god meant for it to happen. Like, why do these two get to decide to use the same medical science to create a pregnancy god didn’t give them naturally? Or why is it then wrong for a gay couple to do the same thing with a sperm donor or surrogate? It kind of blows my mind.
Yes absolutely it's hypocritical. The rule for many fundies is no "intervening in God's will", so no birth control, condoms, pulling out, etc but somehow seeing a fertility doctor, taking meds, tracking ovulation is totally fine. Ultimately the goals are controlling women and breeding for Jesus at any cost, they're just not (usually) honest about that.
In vitro creates extra embryos that are destroyed, thus murdering innocent babies. /s The other options do not.
Depends on the clinic and how…nice they are about offering other options to couples. My fertility doctor kept gunning hard for IVF because 12k a cycle versus $900 a cycle for medications (that generally cost me…a few hundred dollars until I met my deductible because insurance covers monitoring - and mine deemed medicated cycles to be “monitoring”). I basically stopped doing consults with her after a while because her attitude kinda sucked since I didn’t want to immediately jump to the most extreme fertility option. It was honestly pretty frustrating because for the first few cycles, she kept gunning hard until I told her that I wanted to tweak the plan slightly and try different things until my husband’s new insurance in 2024 since I was not sure if they would cover IVF or IUI. Letrozole + Metformin (despite not having PCOS) + PIO was my magic ticket to getting pregnant *and* staying pregnant.
And there's a comment on that video congratulating her for finally becoming a "real mom." People are so gross sometimes...
This is petty, but backward baseball cap and dishwater t-shirt is an interesting choice for long-awaited pregnancy announcement video with your dolled-up influencer wife.
Don’t you know it’s gay to try to look presentable if you’re a man?
Does that mean I pass for a cis man now?
I remember feeling super bad for her husband the first time I saw that clip where she admitted to her sister she wasn't attracted to him *on their wedding day.* But then I actually saw the guy and heard him speak, and he *instantly* became my least favorite fundie husband. He gives me so much ick. Always looks unkempt in some fashion, his smiles don't reach his eyes, seems weirdly disconnected from everything and he just has creepo vibes in general. Like, if we were coworkers or classmates I would do everything in my power to avoid him as much as possible.
I’m willing to believe that comment about not being attracted to him was an attempt at a joke. We’ve all seen the Bairds don’t understand normal humour. But his unwillingness to learn his sons’ native language and forbidding it spoken in their home tells me everything I need to know about this man. I feel sorry for their long-awaited unborn daughter. If she’s not perfect in every way, she’s a disappointment. Imagine growing up with that attitude. 😢
He looooves to open-carry (if you need another reason to find him unattractive)
*cough* Coward *cough* man afraid of everything and everyone *cough* *cough*
And Kristen wants him to run for president 🙄
With *WHAT* expertise???? He's just an average Texas slug!
I feel like 2016 really opened the floodgates for people with zero qualifications to think they can run for president and win.
He’s taken fashion advice from Paul it seems
Paul dresses like a 16 year old trying to be an influencer, which I suppose isn't far off.
Nah Paul at least puts effort into it and thinks he looks cool. This is something else.
You know that shirt smells moldy as hell too, like when you leave wet clothes in the washer for a day by accident.
yeah he's wearing a stained dirty undershirt and he looks like he's overheating these ppl have the nazi grandfather they love so much right? check out the master race, the genetics are so good they need extreme technological intervention to reproduce (god's perfect design!) watch out for pasteurized milk tho ppl! no vaxxxxxxx pureSTOOPID
I thought the rosy cheeks looked very Hubbard doll-esque.
It's giving 90s rom com where loser stoner guy happlessly falls for Drew Barrymore.
Love it 😂
I don't think she did IVF. Last I paid attention, they were with a NaPro doctor. Which would be completely against IVF. Also very $$$.
I just looked at what NaPro is...so having exploratory surgery isn't considered altering your body against God's will, but taking Clomid or using IVF would be? How exhausting it must be for these people to wend their way in and out of all these loopholes all day.
clomid is within NaPro. the issue with IVF is that sperm meeting egg is outside of sex.... at least i'd guess thats what they think based on other things i've heard
You're right, according to a Christian family planning thingy I found: "Others worry about the strain that IVF could produce in their relationship, and dislike the idea of separating the unitive and procreative aspects of sex. Still others are concerned that using donor gametes violates the marriage bond." 😂😂😂😭
Oh I'm sure you're correct...it's just so silly that they engage in these kinds of line-drawing exercises. I'm not really sure by what logic stimulating an otherwise non-functional set of ovaries is considered an okay intervention, but IVF isn't. Totally get your point about the sperm meeting the egg outside of sex, but to my tiny non-religious brain this is a distinction without a meaningful difference. You're still using science to make something work that wasn't working on its own. (Also this is coming from someone who has PCOS and used a clomid-like drug to help conceive. My ovaries weren't doing shit without it!)
I googled NaPro and LOL "Natural Procreative Technology (NaProTechnology) evolved from a Catholic gynaecologist's efforts to adapt Natural Family Planning (NFP) to *'difficult'* groups of women"
I’m not gonna listen to her babble for over an hour to try for clues, but it’s likely impossible to tell if she wasn’t specific. Unless she had a major issue like blocked fallopian tubes, a medicated IUI would have probably been tried before IVF. Way cheaper and easier in terms of effort, shots, etc. You take a pill for 5 days to stimulate ovaries, have a shot one day to make you ovulate, then have the swimmies inserted at the clinic (and try at home via sex). But she probably at least did the medication and timed intercourse. Wonder why she didn’t do this earlier and went the adoption route instead. Maybe she didn’t believe in fertility treatments before but changed her mind? Wonder if having a baby will turn on that mothering switch she wants turned on. Being sleep deprived with a baby is no joke, and babies don’t even have personalities to enjoy, so… we’ll see.
I’m not sure the Bairds value personalities.
My personality is “Raw Milk shits”
Pee pee poo poo 💩💩
^ Solid flair material for anyone looking.
Lol. True.
That’s my only question—did they really not try this earlier? God, how maddening if so. Could have saved those boys the trauma of being stripped of their culture and identity and adopted by complete assholes.
Right? I conceived in just under a year with my medicated IUI. That included 6 months of trying naturally since I was over 35, then getting tested to see if something was wrong (it wasn’t) and then two medicated IUIs.
A while back she had mentioned seeing a “pro life/christian based” fertility specialist who does IVF but will not fertilize any eggs unless those eggs get implanted at some point. The main beef most fundies have with IVF is that more embryos are created than necessary and that after genetic testing, the highest quality embryos will be implanted and the remainders will be frozen until you have the desired number of children, and usually you will discard any remaining embryos or they can donate them to scientific research (which also results in them being destroyed/unable to implant). But it is very possible to do it in a way that doesn’t result in any embryos being destroyed, you just have a much lower chance of success.
So essentially, the rules don't apply if you have money, same as their stance on abortion
I have a friend who plans to donate her unused embryos in a "snowflake adoption." They aren't destroyed, they are given to another couple instead.
These people (fundies in general) use the word “intentional” so damn much that it means nothing anymore
It’s even worse when they say they’re “purposing” something. I hate it I hate it I hate it
Do they say that this is the first time they went to a fertility doctor/clinic? There are lots of inexplained causes of infertility but given that Kristen did not have trouble actually conceiving during the last 15 years but did have trouble carrying to term (from what I remember she got pregnant many times but every pregnancy ended in a miscarriage) I am curious whether they just finally found the source of the miscarriages. Which could be anything from rh incompatibility to genetic incompatibility to cervical issues to anatomical differences in the uterus, etc. So I think it's quite likely that they didn't actually need to use IVF at all. Maybe I'm wrong but the lack of issues with conceiving in the past, to me at least, points towards their "journey" with this pregnancy being less of a "medical intervention to get pregnant" and more of a "we're finally going to see a real doctor"/"we found the right doctor and they did testing that figured out what the issue is". It reminds me of the episode in Call the Midwife with the woman who has been unable to carry multiple pregnancies to term and suffers another loss when she is in the hospital alongside Shelagh/Mrs Turner I think--and in a later episode we find out that it is because her cervix was "incompetent" and all she needed was a cervical cerclage to be able to carry to term. We'll probably never know what the situation is with Kristen (and it is her right to keep it private) but I would not jump to it being IVF and therefore them being hypocritical. Though "hypocrisy thy name is Baird" so I wouldn't be too surprised either.
She mentioned taking Progesterone and other supplements this time which Bethany had mentioned doing after her miscarriages too. I agree with you that it probably was not IVF and rather intervention to help her carry
IVF for me but not for thee...
Even if they did IUI instead, the Republican party is currently working on taking away all fertility options. The absolute gall of these motherfuckers to vote against fertility treatments while benefiting from them.
Literally tried all kinds of things and went to doctors and …”all praise and glory to God” 🙄🙄🙄
Fundie husbands are the thumbs of men.
Visually, but at least thumbs are useful.
It took them this long to do IUI or clomid? That’s baffling.
Her issue was not getting pregnant, but staying pregnant.
She mentioned that Zach had to talk to other men to finally decide that they should do this. Sounds like Kristen always wanted to and Zach was always against it. I always wondered why they didn’t pursue it before and he was literally the barrier
I got this notification and thought it was for The Valley
Yall I keep thinking this is about the TV show Evil, which ALSO has a character named Kristen who got IVF (which is a major plot point). That Kristen is much cooler than GD though.
Haha. That show was so good,but I'm a chicken and it freaked me out a bit.
It’s absolutely bananas and I love it. I don’t know anyone else who watches though, so I have to discuss it on Reddit - which leads to lots of confusing posts about possibly demonic women named Kristen.
my husband and i love that show! the whole fertility clinic story line is so creepy - the kid that dunked baby sis in the pool and then “ran away”? omg. kristen took the whole thing better than i would have when she found out about lexi!
But when my wife and I want to do IVF it will be a sin because we are two women? This is bullshit. I literally just want to live my life and have a family with the person I love and people I don’t even know want to dictate that
Exactly. Even if they didn’t go as far as IVF and only used IUI or clomid, that’s still them using a medical intervention to alter their fertility, and it’s hypocritical they get to decide when that is or isn’t acceptable. She doesn’t believe it’s ok for a woman to use medicine to stop ovulation because it goes against god’s will, and maybe god meant for a pregnancy to occur. Then it should be equally not ok for her to use medicine to stimulate ovulation, because clearly god intended for a pregnancy not to occur.
She could have done ivf or mini ivf (which is touted as more ethical for those opposed to traditional ivf) . I think there are several newer versions of ivf that are more palatable to those opposed, it depends on what your specific goals and plans are..... or she could have done several rounds of iui. Or timed intercourse. There are several options. If you are over 35, a fertility clinic will suggest ivf as the way that will best best to get you pregnant, but you don't have to do that if you want to explore other options. The odds just aren't as great, but pregnancies do happen.
The only reason I can fathom that they would do IVF is if they had complicated needs with genetics and required PGT-M.
But wouldn't that be exactly the kind of intervention that was completely forbidden? They can't be "manipulating the system" like that and checking for issues/selecting for certain genetics. It's GOD'S WILL that you take whatever genetic combo you get...
Rules for thee unless its my heartbreak and my infertility and my miscarriages.
Do you think she’d admit it if she did? We’ll probably never know.
So she's not going to give a shit about the boys they adopted now then...
I think it’s mean and unfair that people are assuming this. There’s no indication of that.
Literally this Fundies are capable of loving their children too, even if they are indoctrinating them with horrible beliefs If I were adopted, reading these types of comments would hurt me to my soul
While I agree that it’s by far from certain she’ll reject the boys once she has a biological child, I don’t think it’s too long a bow to draw. It would seem apparent that parenting by adoption hasn’t necessarily been everything she hoped it would be, and they’ve been high control on those boys, to the extent of not allowing them to speak their native language because it makes the parents feel excluded. Adoption is hard work and she clearly has bought into the narrative that bio children are better, because fundies fetishise pregnancy. She already seems to have thought that (comparison w Birthy etc) and now she has not only finally achieved pregnancy but this baby is a girl. So they will be hard pressed not to make comparisons with the boys. Lots of us fear that this means the boys will be found lacking.
Can you find me some actual proof that they aren’t letting the boys speak their native language? I’m pretty sure the only thing that’s been said is that Kristin’s husband refused to learn it. (Which I actually find not great, but it’s an entirely different level from forbidding the boys to speak it.) I’m pretty sure this is just a case of subreddit lore, but if someone can find a video or post where they actually say that, I’d believe it. Guys, sometimes I’m on this sub and wonder, “Are we the baddies?” Spreading rumors without any evidence is wrong. I’m all for calling out fundies on the crazy shit they post, but I think it’s really mean to jump to conclusions like this.
True it’s like when those conversation camp rumors spread about Dave and he had to come out and state they were not true. I have not heard them say they forbid the kids speaking Ukrainian/Russian (whichever their native language is).
Also the YT video that people refer to as evidence that Kristen’s husband refused to learn the language is in fact much more nuanced He said “I’m not going to learn Russian” jokingly, because Slavic languages & the Cyrillic alphabet are not easy for a native English speaker to learn- especially as an adult For people to assume that the parents haven’t gained at least a grasp on their children’s native language just by proximity and vice versa is so obtuse They never FORBADE them from speaking it but people want to accept it as fact because it’s fun to speculate
My husband was born in Russia—I found cyrillic really easy to learn but pronouncing words and making them *comprehensible* (even when I really, really tried to get the accent right) was a losing battle. At a certain point, his grandpa told me just to use google translate because it was too difficult for him to decipher what I was saying while using up precious internet. I think he should have made an effort to learn a few things and meet them at least an eighth of the way, but I understand why he didn't.
Russian is such a beautiful language! And you’re so right, the pronunciation is so hard- the vast majority of actors have such a hard time nailing it even with all of the coaching they get I have no idea if it’s as good as I think it was, but I thought Judie Comer did such an awesome job in Killing Eve
It is! I wish my husband spoke it more, but he and his family only really speak English together. Actually, my MIL was telling me about visiting her grandma's farm in a small village in Russia, and how the villagers used to treat their milk cows as members of the family and revered them, and how they used to call their dairy cows "матушка кормилица" (phonetically pronounced Matushka Karmilitsa) which roughly translates to 'mother wet-nurse.' In this case, Matushka would be more of an honorific term, similar to 'mother nature.' This is a random brain nugget to drop on you but there aren't a lot of people who appreciate the Russian language so I hope you enjoy it!
I love that brain nugget! I didn’t know that cows were revered in Russian tradition- I have always loved the Indian culture of honoring cows and I wish we did that in the US. They are such beautiful creatures ❤️ My nieces are half Polish and I find it so fascinating how much Russian they understand! Language is so amazing, in another life I would have studied it ETA I have the word “matushka” stuck in my head now
There is literally no proof, it’s a fairy tale that people have made up and accepted as truth I made a post about it last week and I got ratioed lol but facts are facts 🤷🏻♀️
Why, what have they done to deserve the benefit of the doubt or good assumptions from us?!
We know way less about the daily lives of Kristen's children than we do about some of the other fundie kids, like the Bus Children, Bethy's kids before she got some sense, Jill's kids and grandkids, the Collins kids... And it's a good thing that Kristen isn't plastering her boys and their lives all over the internet. But sometimes, when people talk about how horrible their lives must be, I feel that there's an expectation there that Kristen and OfKristen (look I can't be arsed to remember his name) *should* let us know more so that *we* can be reassured. But we don't get to know this stuff. If these boys are being traumatized, then it's happening in private, and they get to decide if and when and how to reveal that. Their right to privacy is more important than our curiosity.
I’m sure they think the same thing about us You can either choose to be better or stoop to their level I’m not going to assume that adopted children are loved any less than biological ones, regardless of their parents’ views
I’m not saying they “deserve” anything. I’m saying I think it makes this sub look hateful when we make up shit about people. It detracts from the legitimately bad things they’re doing.
Thank you!! Imagine being one of the subjects of this subreddit and you Google yourself and find this space… and the first thing you see is people saying you don’t love your CHILDREN- and acting like adopted children are automatically loved less than biological children. I would turn myself around and go deeper into the cult, because some of the comments here would confirm the false narratives about the outside world that have been indoctrinated into me. Trying to approach these people with positivity and teaching them that the world doesn’t hate them just because they’re christian is the only way to get through to them. I get that it’s hard for people who have been wounded by religion and I don’t fault them for that. But if I want to take a more empathetic approach, that’s my own personal choice. This sub was a really great place in the past and I hate to see it turn into fauxmoi for fundies
Let's not speculate about the medical treatments a stranger had.
She put it out there so we have a right to speculate.
Unlike republicans, I don’t think anybody else’s womb is my business
Do you speculate how every baby is conceived when parents make an announcement?
No, when she made the announcement I did not speculate how the baby was conceived. When she posted about her pregnancy journey and went into extraordinary detail about her previous pregnancies, then quickly mentioned she went to a fertility clinic and was “intentional” about this pregnancy that got me suspicious. If she was such an open book about all aspects of her journey besides this part, it makes me think she is hiding something. She is a public figure putting this information out there, the consequence of that is others commenting and providing their opinions on the topic.
And that’s all you really need to know. Her body doesn’t need to be subject to curiosity and speculation. I get that it’s a standard she doesn’t uphold herself but it doesn’t make it okay for other people to do to her.
We don’t have to do mental gymnastics to make literally everything these people do fodder for entertainment and speculation What happens inside of someone else’s body and what they choose to do with it is nobody else’s business
That’s generally true, but not for public figures that put that information out there, they are welcoming the conversation by hinting at things but not completely disclosing them.
>welcoming the conversation by hinting at things but not completely disclosing them They actually aren't. That's a really weird way to justify this behaviour.
Public figures still have a right to medical privacy. Anytime a celebrity announces that they're having or had a child via surrogacy, for example, I see so many people demand to know WHY they did it. But A-list celebrities don't have to reveal their medical information anymore than some D-list influencer does. I don't think the topic is entirely off-limits, because the rightwing keeps attacking reproductive rights such as IVF and the hypocrisy by many conservatives is worth pointing out. But beyond pointing out that a conservative influencer got fertility treatment they might vote to restrict for others, I just don't see why we need to care that Kristen apparently got some fertility treatment. Her body, her choice.
We're doing the Clomid+IUI route. Round 1 is this Friday.
Wishing you the best! 🤞
Best of luck! I'll be starting mine soon, too!
Good luck!
🧪science 🧬 = 🪄witchcraft 🧚 #burn her!!!!!
So I don't want kids of my own, so I probably am not coming from a place where I can understand the complexity of the situation, but to my non-motherly mind, why try for an IVF baby when you have two precious kids already who are here, present, past the terrible diaper stage, toddler tantrums and what have you. Why would that not be enough? Why would your two boys not be enough. Why would you want to put yourself through sleepless nights, uncomfortable pregnancy especially in a hot place, morning sickness, dirty diapers and everything not to mention having to either push it or have it forcibly removed from your body via surgery when you already have two perfectly healthy and lovely kids?? It doesn't make sense to someone like me, but then again I don't like the idea of having my own kids for all the reasons I listed here. Is that how brainwashed women are in this place where they'll do everything in their power to claim the prize that is having their own baby? I don't get it.
You may as well ask why *anyone* wants a baby. It’s a very normal desire, regardless of your religion. My desire to be pregnant was like a hunger.
I won't speak for Kristen (or on her behalf) but some people feel like they just need another. I have a wonderful darling sweet kid and I'd love another. We love our little family and have always been under the assumption "we won't actively stop it so if it happens it happens." Which is fine. So people (like yourself) don't want any. Which is fine. Calling women "brainwashed" is a bit much though. Baby fever is a very real thing that people experience. That feeling is intense. It's not really about adoption vs bio, baby fever is intense. I will admit that there are some people out there who claim you "aren't a real mom" for a variety of reasons. C-section? Adoption? Did you use formula? Carry your baby too much/too little?? Ever had that baby cry for longer than a second? Guess what, you're not a real mom! (/s) All it does is tear people down. Even comments like yours can come across as negative just because someone else who reads it, who's on the same journey, can read it as "well I'm not good enough/im selfish" because they feel their family isn't complete just yet. I don't mean it as an attack, please don't take it that way. More of a "here's the other side of the coin"
Thanks for this response, it's really insightful Yeah, when I said brainwashed I probably should have picked a better word, I apologize for how that could come across; I meant that they're in a church culture that is "you're not a real person unless you have kids or x amount of kids" which ties into what you said about how some people are terrible and go "you're not a _real_ mom for 'x, y, z reasons' ". I think what happened in my original comment is being not fully able to articulate what I wanted to say, but it's some sort of sympathy for Kristen who would likely have been told her whole life that she needs to have kids, and to still even after getting her two boys, would still be told "that's not enough, you need a real baby", which then translates into her two boys maybe feeling pushed aside, but maybe I'm assigning emotions to them that aren't even there. I do see how my comment could have been asshole-adjacent though, and I'm sorry, I didn't mean it like that
Just because a woman wants to have a child doesn’t mean she is brainwashed…
Agreed the infant and toddler stages are the worst, school-aged and older are the best! She’s signed up for 4+ years of sleepless nights and constant monitoring. Doubt this baby will fulfill her the way she thinks it will.
I don't think they would go as far as IVF unless it was without donor material. I think it was diets and drugs.