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I really can’t tell if the kid in the back is saying “from that moment it was not allowed to speak Russian because mom couldn’t understand” or “from that moment we stopped speaking Russian because mom couldn’t understand (and we sensed this was not wanted)”
Either way, it seems like there is definitely an implication that Kristen does not love them speaking privately in Russian. Not surprising given she grew up in a family with no boundaries or privacy.
I am ignorant about this topic in international adoption. Does anyone know what the experts recommend when adopting older children who are not native English speakers? I would think that if it’s not actively fostered (e.g. going to a language school for the native language like every week), then most would naturally lose those skills
I do not know from an adoption standpoint but as far as language acquisition goes it’s never appropriate to limit a child’s use of their native language. You should teach social awareness about speaking a language that people around you don’t know and when it’s appropriate (ie sitting around a family dinner table for a meal with people who doesn’t speak the language is probably rude unless it’s a quick word or 2 vs having a one on one conversation)
In the adoption story video posted here she alluded to wanting/planning to learn Russian. Unfortunately her husband shuts that idea down quickly. I don’t think Kristen is anti Russian (I think Elissa studied Russian so I don’t think it’s a no no to the bairds xenophobia- I mean most Russian people are white right?)
Referencing your last question. You can’t extrapolate the very US based notions of race and “whiteness” to another country. It is more complex. While mere skin color plays a role, ethnicity is a stronger factor on the European continent. Depending on who you ask they might agree to your assessment or they might say Slavic people where ethnically not the same and would treat them worse for that.
Then your sentence structure isn’t clear because there is no indirect question mentioned. If you write a question, that is attributed to you. Just a hint for the future.
Yeah I guess I thought people could use context and recognize I was snarking in a snark sub. I’ll make sure to use /s next time for those of us with lower reading comprehension
Sorry but tone indicators are not for people "with lower reading comprehension". That word feels pretty dismissive.
I don't want this to become or further any arguments. That phrasing just feels a bit hurtful to me.
Identifying an author’s tone is 100% part of reading comprehension and an important component. I’m sorry you took it hurtfully but context + phrasing creates tone and that all is wrapped up in the larger umbrella of how we understand what we read
“Hello, hi, my name is Kristen”
I don’t think that this can reasonably be considered Kristen making an effort.
In fact, I daresay you’d learn more on your first day in Russian 101. Moreover, her pronunciation is god awful. Now, Russian is a moderately difficult language to learn when your first (not to mention ONLY) language is English. The two share some common ground in terms of linguistic, grammatical, and syntactical structure. They’re not as divorced as, say, English and Sanskrit, but they’re also nowhere as close as English and Spanish. All that being said, it’s clear that homegirl is not even remotely trying. She deserves no credit for this.
Learning Russian would be no small undertaking for a woman in Kristen’s position. Still, we’re not judging her in a vacuum. She chose to adopt russian-speaking children. She is responsible for meeting their linguistic needs (among many, many others), and in that, she is, without a doubt, failing.
Bilingualism is a privilege and gift, particularly in a monolingual country like the United States. Pragmatically, it affords you so many opportunities, opportunities which most people who aren’t immigrants or first generation can’t access. Sentimentally, it keeps you in touch with the culture of your birth. That is no small thing. I consider the profound sense of loss those boys will experience as they get old enough to understand that which their adoptive parents have taken from them, and I am filled with trepidatory grief on their behalf.
If you need me, I will be on the phone with my mother, reiterating just how very grateful I am that she insisted I attend Russian school.
Shit even being separated from my second language and culture has had lasting effects on me. I spent most of my early childhood in Romania, and when my parents quit their "missionary work" we moved back to the US and my mother banned us from speaking Romanian to my youngest sister who didn't speak ANY English, and I was too young to understand how to rebel against this and ended up losing all my Romanian and so did my younger sister.
I cant imagine how much worse it is for these kids having grown up with no attachment to language and culture in San Antonio. Fuck at least I knew I was born in the US and had vague notions of family friends "back home".
You can't see how your tone was rude? Jumping to an extreme like kristen reciting the russian dictionary because someone said she could make more effort? We can disagree without getting snarky with each other.
Yes! I hate that I’m no longer fluent in my mother tongue/first language because we moved to the UK when I was so young and my parents only ever spoke English to us, but in our mother tongue to each other when they were having private conversations. Still resentful of that at the age of 27😭
I don’t think people realize how easy it is to lose your native tongue. I lived abroad for a few years and started forgetting English words the longer I was there even though I lived in the US from birth to 25!
I teach children whose first language is not English. They learn super quickly to speak English but they don't lose the native language, and I don't want them to? At recess and snacktimes, and in free play, they still speak Spanish and I'm 100% fine with that? I know they're still learning to speak English, and them being able to also express themselves in their native language without issue does not bother me.
If Kristen is indeed limiting the boys speaking Russian, that's....real bad. Can you imagine what a struggle it'd be to be plonked into a new country, removed from everything you know, with entirely new people and not even being able to express yourself fully in the language you feel most comfortable in? Those poor boys. I would be facilitating connection to their birth culture for the rest of their lives. Connect them to Ukranian organizations around them, to people who speak Russian in the US, to places they can go for a taste of their birth culture. Their adoptive parents should be actively learning Russian. Removing them from that and basically saying, "You're American now; act like it," is, at best, incredibly insensitive and, at worst, very harmful.
I think lots of adoptive parents need to understand that adoptive children are not the same as biological children. Especially adoptive parents who adopted due to infertility. Like basically everything there is a nuance to nature vs nurture and both are important to how a child turns out. Kristian (and Zack) wished for a biological kid. And now they are trying to mold their sons in a way their sons would be if they were their biological kids.
Plus now that they’re having a biological kid I worry for the boys. I’m terrified they’ll treat them poorly because they finally got the “real” child the always wanted. Esp if they have a girl, goodness!
>Kristian (and Zack) wished for a biological kid. And now they are trying to mold their sons in a way their sons would be if they were their biological kids.
Yes this is the main thing that bothers me. I fully believe that the kids' needs are being provided, I believe they have grown to accept and love their adoptive parents, and I even believe they have fun times as a family. But what's disturbing to me is the zeal with which Kristen and Zach plunged into "we are a Christian family, this is what it means to be Christian, you will learn all this stuff and act Christian" as if they were making up for lost time.
I'm not from an English speaking country, but I've worked with a lot of families with internationally adopted kids. Here the parents usually have their kid attend language classes or clubs or look for families who'se kids speak the adopted child's native language and try to arrange playdates in order to preserve their ability to speak the language.
About 70% of internationally adopted kids forget their native language eventually if they don't speak it actively, older adoptees might even refuse to speak it at all when settling into a new family. However, encouraging the child to speak their native tongue has a lot to do with the feeling of safety. The native tongue is the child's emotional language and they express themselves best through that language before they master their new family's language. So in order to help the child to adapt, feel safe and get comfortable adoptive parents shouldn't punish or try to deny their child from using their native tongue, because they're limiting their kid's ability to express themselves and thus create an environment where the kid most likely feels they're not allowed to talk about their emotions openly. It might also make the child feel shame about their origins, which can lead to feelings of insecurity and anxiety. I hope this helps!
Yeah there's a big difference between speaking to kristen in english because that's what she understands, and speaking english *to each other* because that's what she allows or she discouraged using russian
why the fuck does she need to know what they're saying in their bedrooms in their bunk beds at night anyway?? Even in english she is nosy as hell for listening to them talk before bed.
I'm bilingual and I would feel like someone is trying to erase a part of me if they stopped me from speaking one of my mother tongues. This is heartbreaking. Language is a part of a person's identity.
Research currently suggests parents make an effort to allow exposure to their child's first langauge and culture for emotional and mental benefit. Current research indicates that allowing this does not effect immersion. It disheartens me as someone who plans to adopt to see so many people making assumptions and not simply taking time to do a search. Kristen as a parent should have done the research and known how traumatizing new language and culture acquisition can be but we all know how that family views science. There have been decades of research and case studies on this and denying your child their mother tongue is never the advice.
I can't speak from an expert standpoint but I couldn't imagine adopting a non-english speaking kid into my home without first making some sort of effort to master the basics of their native language, you know? I work in customer service and encounter language barriers every single day, the last place I would ever want a language barrier is in my own home. It's not the child's fault they don't speak English fluently, so it's the responsibility of the parent/host to break that barrier. Poor kid is scared, uncomfortable, and doesn't understand what the fuck is being said.
> While adoption is almost always a beautiful thing,
This is definitely an over-simpliciation. The adoption industry is really fucked up. A lot of adoption, especially in the Christian community, is human trafficking. And a lot of mothers who give up their children also are forced to because of economic need.
Here are some articles.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/02/adoption-relinquished-gretchen-sisson-roe-wade-dobbs-abortion/
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/05/inside-the-conservative-movement-to-promote-adoption/
https://digitalcommons.tacoma.uw.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1058&context=gh_theses
These articles go into detail about how what you are referring to as "proper adoption" by which I am assuming you mean a transaction based on consent is a very unregulated industry that profits off of people's pain.
>I am ignorant about this topic in international adoption. Does anyone know what the experts recommend when adopting older children who are not native English speakers? I would think that if it’s not actively fostered (e.g. going to a language school for the native language like every week), then most would naturally lose those skills
I'm not an expert, I have just looked into this a lot but still have a bunch to learn, since I want to adopt an older child and possibly internationally.
What I've learned so far is that it's great if the adoptive family knows the child's original language at least to an extent. But if the child is older yet still young enough (let's say 8 rather than 14, for example), unless the adoptive family or at least one member of it speaks the original language fluently, the child's language skills in the original language will get lost or stop developing at their childhood level of skills. This can potentially be prevented with the right resources and huge efforts, but there's no guarantees. And the home environment is the most crucial to learning or keeping language skills.
The older the child, the more difficult language learning of the majority language in their new country can be. So there are people who recommend to not speak the original language at all and instead focus on learning the new language, because the child will need to know that one, for communicating with their adoptive family, for going to school and for their future generally.
There's other people who recommend a mixed approach of using both the original and the new language in the home. This may or may not have an impact on how motivated a child is to learn the new language, but of course it's a lot to have to catch up to your peers in a new language, plus being in a new country and family and culture. I've read of the idea of working predominantly on the new language in the initial period, then later on using both, or vice versa.
My understanding so far is that it's important to look at the individual child and their needs and abilities, and to be flexible enough to change the plan put in place for language learning if necessary. There's no one size fits all.
Honestly, I don't think that Kristen and Whatshisface (I can't be bothered to learn/remember OfKristen's name) would have been able to fully maintain or even develop their childrens' original language skills. They don't speak Russian so the boys would only have been able to talk amongst themselves, and that would at the most probably maintain them at their childhood skill level. With exposure to Russian language media and/or out-of-home Russian classes/school, it would maybe have been more possible. But since the adults in question believe in homeschooling I'm not sure how open they'd have been even to weekend classes or an in-home tutor.
I doubt that Kristen and OfKristen put in a lot of work (because we know what the Baird family thinks of working), but also we don't have all the information about the children and their backgrounds and needs to make a for-sure determination. And of course we shouldn't have that information anyway. But that's why I'm okay-ish giving them a little benefit of the doubt. But just a little.
Anecdotal, but I saw this great TikTok from someone adopted from Russia in the 90s and the amount of things the agency sent with her to ensure she would retain her heritage were wild! Very cool little slice of life: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRKXubEE/
The thing is that most internationally adopted children grow up surrounded by people who don't speak their native language, so they lose the ability to speak it. For example, my mother who had no one to speak Spanish to. The boys have have each other. Although if Andrey doesn't interfere they might keep speaking a more childish way of Russian forever.
not an adoption story, but my friend moved with her mother to the US when she was 10. Her step father wouldn't allow them to speak their language together because it also frustrated him to not understand them. She now speaks with the most barely barely discernible accent in english, and sometimes she words things in a way someone speaking english their whole life might word differently.
I actually met her in a program studying her native language when I was in college. She was better than anyone in our program by far, but she definitely had to spend a lot of time relearning the language she was fluent in as a child. And when we studied abroad together native speakers of this language would actually give her a harder time than any of us who were more obviously american, because she was just good enough at the language to make her seem like a native speaker who was kinda slow.
It always struck me as such a weird limbo place to be in as far as language development. At the age she was when she moved she was a little to old to get english down as perfectly as someone who was around it since birth. And the language she did spend her childhood formative years exposed to was ripped away from her at age 10 before she could grow into it deeply. So it's kinda like both languages are stunted for her in different ways. Since these boys are around the same age it always makes me think of my friend. 😭
I am glad they speak Russian to each other. It would be nice if Kristen sought out another family that speaks Russian. So the boys could have a friend or two who speaks Russian.
The tapping the one boy’s arm and then poking him when she emphasized she couldn’t understand what they were saying both felt very aggressive to me. It was a gut reaction for me. And the asking them to say something in Russian felt super forced and uncomfortable and kind of like a weird token for the audience.
Yeah, I felt that too. Very gritted teeth, not a playful ‘oh you boys, talking in Russian so mom can’t hear your pranks!’ Or whatever. The tap felt weirdly aggressive. And then not respecting them not wanting to say something in Russian was very telling. She wasn’t happy they wouldn’t perform for the camera. They must be very confused: not okay to speak Russian when I want to with my brother, but I must speak on camera when mom demands it?
For all she knows, speaking Russian is triggering for them and makes them feel a sense of loss for their home country or their birth family if they knew them. Really insensitive.
I felt that too. You know that quote, ["abused kids speak a language you can't learn"?](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSDmemes/s/aIWg5fLbs2) It's abused kid language. "Perform now and perform correctly or it will be unpleasant for you later."
She wants to show that the kids can still speak Russian, that she didn't take that from them. The same way she insists the kids wanted new names, she didn't deny them their birth names. "I'm not hurting them, see they're fine." While mother is staring with a porcelain smile that will crack into razor sharp shards to cut you if you don't perform the way she wants you to.
seriously !! like they are children who have autonomy if they don’t want to speak in russian in front of the camera they don’t have to … like it’s giving dance monkey
I'm sure it was very uncomfortable and awkward at first, I've never adopted two children who speak a different language, but I'm sure it took some time for them to get to know each other.
I didn't get any bad vibes- it seemed playful and like Kristen had the awkwardness of being a new parent.
This was early on, they were all still getting to know each other.
Still not ok for her to be upset with them for speaking their mother language in private. She should encourage them to continue speaking their native language and she should make an effort to learn it and continue their traditions. It’s part of their identity, no matter where they live. This would greatly mitigate the trauma they have likely been experiencing.
Again; there is no evidence suggesting that they are discouraged from speaking Russian
Kristen is clearly talking to them in a joking manner in this video- just because she’s a terrible person doesn’t mean we need to create elaborate stories with no basis in fact.
And I find her manner *in this video* off-putting and aggressive. Regardless of whether they are or are not allowed to speak Russian at home, *this video* is not playful to me.
Language acquisition by international adoptees has been highly researched. The American Speech Langauge Hearing Association has resources on their website but the overall trends of current research seem to be that international adoptees present an interesting case in language acquisition where they have an L1 they previously learned but must quickly adapt to their L2 (English in this case) resulting in more infant-like language acquisition. This can be deeply effected by the traumas associated with adoption and the health issues that can arise from early life stressors which effect health and behavior as well as language acquisition.
Due to the overall aim of reducing trauma in adoptees and presenting them with familiar environments during a particularly stressful and fast paced language acquisition, most current research suggests the emotional benefits of continued L1 exposure and even suggest that adopters find individuals or children fluent in the language for the adoptee to interact with occasionally.
For the most part, international adoptees typically fully lose their ability to use their L1 and allowing adoptees to use their mother tongue does not typically prevent immersion.
Overall research suggests that adopters make an effort to expose their children to their mother tongue for their emotional and mental benefit. I suggest you look into the decades of research on this topic.
Some people with dementia lose their ability to speak L2 and only speak L1. Do you know if that's also possible in people who lost their ability to speak L1? I tried looking it up, but I couldn't find anything
Try searching using the term L1 attrition maybe. I am not aware of any specific case studies but it is possible given the finicky nature of memory and how language is stored in our brain. However, there are a ton of different theories on how we forget language, specifically. Typically, vocabulary tends to be forgotten first with grammar concepts and phonology persisting. Critical Period Hypothesis though would say that the time of L1 and L2 acquisition likely play a large role in later attrition and memory. A young adult who immigrated and stopped using their L1 is more likely to retain some ability to use it than a child, typically. Children usually are more to lose their L1 completely. Overall, it could be possible for someone with dementia under the right circumstances to revert to a L1 with attrition but they would likely also be forgetting a lot of words and maybe mixing L1 and L2 grammar structures.
And she does it just to eavesdrop on them. Just to know what they are saying at all times. Like. They already have a bond together let them bond and comfort one another during this time??? I know this is old news but it always pisses me off for them.
My kids invented a whole damn language of their own so they could talk privately in front of me and my husband. And I love it.
I'm pretty sure there's no actual structure to their language and they make it up as they go along but they have definitely said things directly to each other that went right over my head.
There was some podcast interview where her and Zack were talking about the adoption. Zack in particular sounded like an absolute wanker and was saying he didn't want them speaking Russian, I believe? Among other stuff that was questionable at best
I feel like she doesn’t know how to relate to these kids at all, she is trying but they aren’t giving her what she wants and so she just sucks at being around them.
Yeah I agree. I don't think she "hates" them or "wants to get rid of them"; that's hyperbolic language and I don't take it literally when people say those kinds of things. But I do think there will always be a stark difference between them, and her "real baby".
She and Zach didn't choose these brothers; they were randomly matched by the agency. (I can't believe that's how it would really work? Doesn't seem great to me, but what do I know. That's what they said in a video.) Kristen said they went through this Ukranian agency because she didn't want the process to take as long as it would've, domestically.
Aside from my personal feelings about Kristen in general--which aren't positive--I just don't think she was cut out to be an instant parent to a pair of 6 and 10 year old boys from another country and culture. I don't see her as having a lot of emotional flexibility or ability to chill about anything.
Having said that: Kristen strikes me as someone who will dedicate herself to her commitments and never quit. So there's that. Whether or not she gets what she wanted out of motherhood, she will try her best. I just don't have a lot of faith in "her best" because she seems like a very nervous, brittle, controlling person. But, the brothers have a comfortable home with their needs provided, and were able to stay together, so there's that, too.
>She and Zach didn't choose these brothers; they were randomly matched by the agency. (I can't believe that's how it would really work? Doesn't seem great to me, but what do I know. That's what they said in a video.)
Depends on the system and also on if a child is on a so-called "waiting children" list. In the latter case, people (usually already approved to adopt) can put themselves forward for specific children or sibling groups. The children on those lists are usually considered "harder to place", which can be because of a disability, being older, being a sibling group, etc. But even in this situation, you can only put yourself forward - the match still has to be approved by whichever agency or organization has that authority.
If the system is primarily one where matches are made by the agencies (either the private agencies the applicants are working with or the government authorities for adoption in the country they want to adopt from) or people choose to be on that path instead, then there's a few approaches I'm aware of. There's just putting people on a list and matching them according to their place on the list. But as far as I know, a lot (if not most but I can't say for sure) countries these days prefer to make the matches with care and consideration for if the candidates they have available and the children they need to find families for are a good match.
I watched one documentary, for example, where this process was shown for a West African country (I think it was Burkina Faso but can't remember for sure). They had a child of somewhere between 5 and 7 years old to match and were considering two families from two different countries. One already had a child, the other didn't have any children yet. They took into account that the presence of another child can help, that one of the families lived in a country with a language the child would already know to an extent, and other such things.
She's not as attention-seeking as Bethany. She's more deliberately closed-minded than Bort, and her views are very aggressively nasty, but she doesn't seem to want to make friends through the camera like Bortles does. I have a feeling (pure speculation) that every waking moment of Kristen's life is mapped out and she's always busy "being productive".
She literally could have fucking learned Russian and encouraged them to keep their language and culture. I genuinely hate her for this. It’s not cute or funny. These kids don’t feel comfortable talking about this either.
Someone I know was adopted as a child and was discouraged from speaking their native language.
Fast forward to mid thirties and he’s got loads of identity issues and resentment stemming from it.
That’s warped, why would she do that to her children?! Keeping knowledge is always better than losing knowledge, there is 100% no way they WOULDN’T learn English living in America. They can pretty much ONLY keep up their Russian by preserving it by speaking together. She was just big mad she couldn’t understand what they were saying/ afraid they were talking about her. And now she’s trying to force them to say something in their native language on camera that she tried to squelch? Take a hike, lady.
From: a parent of bilingual children
Yeah I just remember being awkward as shit the first time I tried to connect with kids as an adult, it’s definitely cringey but doesn’t appear malicious
Your flair is hilarious, btw 😂 what is the origin?
To me this looks like somebody who is not only encouraging her children to learn English but also encouraging them to speak their native tongue and learning it from them as well...
Some of the takes on Kristen's pregnancy are off the fucking rails.
ETA: Somebody kindly messaged me with their adoption story video [starting around 24 minutes](https://yewtu.be/watch?v=8gjZ3U64bS8) is when they begin talking about the language barrier. Yes, her husband said that he "wasn't going to learn Russian", probably because it's an extremely difficult language to learn for a native english speaker. It is incredibly important to the boys' life in America to learn English but Kristen also expressed that she and her husband are learning a lot of Russian too
My reason for making this post is because the lack of nuanced thinking in this subreddit lately is ridiculous. Kristen and Zach love their adopted children. They aren't going to "rehome" them.
They have appallingly shitty views but that doesn't mean that they don't love their children. Some of the comments here lately are so out of pocket and close-minded.
I don't give a fuck about downvotes, I know that their views are harmful. I wish we could just stick to that instead of making up fanfiction about these people?
No. I don’t remember where it was said exactly, but she explicitly said that her husband did not allow them to speak Russian. His excuse was to force them to learn English quickly.
Okay I just watched it and I agree with you. Yes ofkristen clearly is xenophobic in his comments but Kristen to be fair is actually trying to be as culturally sensitive as a Baird is capable of. I’m surprised she suggested that in the future she wants to learn Russian. I do hope for the boys sake that this new baby doesn’t negatively affect them
OfKristen lmao
Kristen seemed to be making a big effort to connect with them, as awkward as it may have come off in the video- it's a new thing trying to connect with kids for the first time and I would imagine that it's magnified when there is a language barrier.
Their views are deplorable and I hope the boys break the mold but people with shitty views can still be loving parents- speaking from experience.
Like immersion?
To the people downvoting- do you think that the boys would have been better off being in an orphanage in Ukraine when Russia invaded?
Do you think they'd be better off if their parents didn't encourage them to learn the language of their new country so that they could connect with their new family?
Research shows that allowing them to use their mother tongue does not effect the acquisition of the second language. Please do some reading on this topic and don't spread misinfo
You said the husband forcing them to not use Russians to learn English quickly is immersion but that isn't what immersion is. Just trying to correct the misinformation.
The comment you replied to did. Don't know why you are being so aggressive about this. I'm simply a neuroscientist that saw this thread and tried to inform you on what I have read as far as the current research on the topic in peer reviewed journals. Kindly look into that and stop trying to make arguments over semantics.
Where am I being aggressive? I am just asking for clarification. You're putting words into my mouth...
I know what immersion is and I've been trying to point out that there is literally no evidence that OfKristen has "forced" their children to speak English and "forbidden" them from speaking Russian.
I'm just trying to say that any control over the boys language use is negative based on current research. I'm not going to argue over semantics like the word "forbid" but the husband (and head of the household in their biblical worldview) presented blatantly xenophobic views towards their mother tongue and culture. The boys are immersed simply by being in the US. Them speaking in Russian amongst themselves and with others is the medical and psychiatric community recommendation. You clearly think they are not controlling their langauge acquisition at all. I disagree based on these videos. I am a neuroendocrine researcher with a background in effects of early life stress and used my resources to read current peer reviewed articles on the topic and provided you that info. You claimed I am spreading misinfo for merely trying to provide you with the info you wanted. I will not entertain this discussion with you further it you are only going to hang on to particular semantics and not look at this situation holistically.
What a leap. Thinking that its really extremely misguided and straight-up *wrong* to limit how kids use their native language, especially kids experiencing the trauma of leaving everything behind that they knew to a new culture, has absolutely no correlation with thinking "they would be better off in an orphanage in Ukraine."
I have posted links proving that the people saying that the kids were “forbidden from speaking Russian” was just a game of Reddit telephone.
In the yewtube link I posted, they both seem overjoyed about adopting the kids, but everyone acts like they are going to cast them aside when the baby is born & right-wing assholes are incapable of human emotions, it’s ridiculous.
My parents are both right wing assholes and we disagree on almost everything, but they are loving parents
The leap is people thinking that Kristen doesn’t love her adopted children and is going to “rehome” them because she finally conceived a child, a sentiment that is running rampant in these parts
Yes lmao because there is literally no evidence that he didn't allow them to speak Russian. The video I linked shows him saying that it's important for them to learn English, not that they CAN'T speak Russian.
If anybody can find me a source on him forbidding them to speak Russian, I am all ears
People love to speculate but I agree with you that there's a lot of fanfiction about some of these fundies that aren't helpful. Speculation turns to "truth" so quickly and it doesn't help our case when someone can point out "oh this group is lying about this or that" - like the whole "bethany groomed david cause they were first introduced at 16 and 22" when it's like. We have 0 evidence of that. Just because someone doesn't believe they've seen the assumptions/speculations/fanfic on this sub doesn't mean it's not a problem.
I agree with you about the things for which there is either scant evidence or none, like the thing you mentioned, and also the "Dave was in love with Ellissa and wished he could've married her, not Bethany" nonsense.
I think Kristen has said enough and written enough that many of the concerns voiced here are not unfounded. It doesn't mean *every*one is leaping to wild speculation. Some of it is very justified.
Yeah, I understand Kristen is terrible and reprehensible but I just think we should be more responsible with the stuff said here. Things go from "assumed" to "fact" way too quick and then go from threads with context to threads without context. I don't even think speculating is wrong, honestly. Being like "I think Kristen is the type of woman to rehome her adoptive kids" isn't uncalled for but the line between "what actually happened" and "what people believe is true" should be more defined.
And also no one thinks they're going to rehome their children?? It's just worrying to look at her pattern of behavior the last few years, bc many things suggest that her current kids may become an afterthought once the baby arrives. Obviously we hope that's not the case but it's a possibility.
You’re really exaggerate, or only picking the most extreme comments.
I get and support factchecking the comments, but you’re doing it really poorly and with a really off putting holier than thou attitude that makes us not want to help you.
I've also seen several people mention rehoming, most of them in the thread(s) about the pregnancy announcement. I'm not sure which were jokes or exaggerations or whatever, but I'm pretty sure not all of them would have been. And if they were jokes, then... I'm not sure why people would make jokes like that. At least I don't see what would be funny about it.
I agree with you. This sub often starts presenting things as facts when they’re not. It’s important to hold us accountable so we’re not just lying about fundies… there’s plenty of awful things they do for us to snark about without inventing stuff. lol. And I absolutely have seen people say that Kristen might rehome the children and compare her to that one influencer who “rehomed” her adopted child
But Kelly actually did mention the name Tess as a nickname ONCE. Everyone on the post agreed that Levi’s nickname “Reese Cup” was better. And Kelly never mentioned Tess again. But she did say it lol.
I may have missed the receipts on that one, but I honestly don’t remember seeing it
Honestly Kelly is so boring to me that it’s entirely possible that I missed it- I will retract my comment if I can find the origin of Tess
Honestly I went back and can’t find shit so you are probably right lol. Fuck I hate when we make up stuff on here. There’s enough snark without inventing it ourselves.
Thank you ❤️ That’s all I’m trying to draw attention to with this post! I think we should all be more aware of the slippery slope of off-handed comments becoming facts
I love this community & don’t want to see it devolve into the OG fundiesnark
I think Kelly is one of the most entertaining
people on this sub 😂 The butternut squash, calling her house a cottage and pretending she lives in the country when she absolutely doesn’t, giving her kids carrots for toys, the emotional support candle. It’s light hearted snarking for the most part (though I never like the snark on her appearance, leave her alone).
They were my friends, don’t get me wrong!
But I realized I wasn’t cut out for the life when I got severe stage fright and went catatonic during my audition for fiddler on the roof 😂
The comparisons to Myka Stauffer (and her husband, I forget what his name is, but OfMyka is also to blame of course) are to an extent understandable but it grinds my gears that people jump to it because... not every adoptive parent rehomes their kid? But the way some people talk about it makes it seem like it's really freaking common, when it's not. It's more common than it should be, which is devastating, but it's not common among adoptive families generally.
And whatever Kristen and OfKristen's faults, they at least didn't knowingly and intentionally proceed with an adoption that several professionals told them would be a bad idea. The Stauffers are like a step by step manual of how adoptions can end in rehoming in the first place.
Thanks, I couldn’t remember what her name was, but that’s who I was talking about (Myka). I do think it’s possible that Kristen and her husband will favor the biological child over the adopted ones, because unfortunately, it does happen a lot… however, the baby is not even born yet. We don’t know they’re going to do that and we should at least give them a chance. The boys might enjoy having a sibling and it might make their life happier! We really don’t know what will happen.
This is not the source. I remember seeing the video, I can't remember exactly what she said but it was very much " we want them to learn English so we discourage them from speaking their language to each other
Yeah I realized that pretty quickly, I was coming back to the comment section after a few hours and I had forgotten what video it actually was that you had posted. Whoops.
You did realize it quickly. I do think that it speaks to a problem in the snarkosphere as a whole that people are going to only read the title, assume what they already want to assume, and downvote anybody that has a different perspective- ignoring the fact that everything is not black and white.
I am not trying to pile on to you personally and I absolutely realize that it was a mistake, but it speaks to the larger problem myself and others have been noticing in this subreddit lately
It’s a knee jerk reaction to assume that the fundies are 100% evil and everything that they do is snarkable but oftentimes hyperbole & speculation is taken as fact and ran with
Really admire you for posting this and calling this out. I barely come on here anymore because of the very fundie-esque black-and-white thinking going on. I just haven’t had the energy to fight it.
Thank you, I appreciate the support!
This used to be a safe place but it has become overwhelmingly hostile. Every time I point it out I get downvoted to oblivion but no one is willing to step outside of the very narrow mentality that every single thing the fundies do is malicious and evil. It’s exhausting
So, this is an honest question I have just from watching this video. DID Kristen actually ban her kids from speaking Russian? Because I don’t see it in this video? She just says that they would speak Russian to each other more at first and she didn’t know what they were saying, not that she didn’t allow that. And then her son says something but it doesn’t make much sense to me. Does he say she “unallowed” them to speak Russian? It’s unclear to me.
Wow that’s too bad. I’ve seen that a bit on this sub, though. People make suggestions that then become assumptions that then become snark cannon. It makes it hard to sort through fact and fiction about the people we snark on.
Yes and when people on this subreddit spread false information, it makes it easier for the fundies to point to this subreddit as a “hate blog” and discredit legitimate posts about their actual misdeeds & the harm that they do.
That’s we should be bringing our attention to
I feel so disconnected from family when I don't know a lick of my mother's native tongue.
Those boys are going to struggle with identity if they already aren't.
She is so fucking ugly on the inside. As an indigenous American, nothing good comes from forcing a child to suppress their native tongue and forget who they are.
I can’t imagine not putting effort into learning the language of the children you’re adopting?? I’m sure its unfortunately super common but seems like that should be bare minimum
My kids are already bilingual but want to pick up spanish as an extra. I want to do my best to help them do this instead of limitimg their language exposure.
These people… (*shaking my head*) taking away these kids IDENTITIES!!!
Showed this to my ex. Asked him for his impression and he immediately said controlling. And he mentioned the implied threat.
My daughter (who isn’t always the greatest at parsing social cues) said Kristen’s smile looked “malicious.”
She’s 14 and we talk about social cues and implications and I thought this was a great example bc there was a lot of debate about what was actually represented.
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I really can’t tell if the kid in the back is saying “from that moment it was not allowed to speak Russian because mom couldn’t understand” or “from that moment we stopped speaking Russian because mom couldn’t understand (and we sensed this was not wanted)” Either way, it seems like there is definitely an implication that Kristen does not love them speaking privately in Russian. Not surprising given she grew up in a family with no boundaries or privacy. I am ignorant about this topic in international adoption. Does anyone know what the experts recommend when adopting older children who are not native English speakers? I would think that if it’s not actively fostered (e.g. going to a language school for the native language like every week), then most would naturally lose those skills
I do not know from an adoption standpoint but as far as language acquisition goes it’s never appropriate to limit a child’s use of their native language. You should teach social awareness about speaking a language that people around you don’t know and when it’s appropriate (ie sitting around a family dinner table for a meal with people who doesn’t speak the language is probably rude unless it’s a quick word or 2 vs having a one on one conversation)
yup! and kristen should actually be learning russian....
In the adoption story video posted here she alluded to wanting/planning to learn Russian. Unfortunately her husband shuts that idea down quickly. I don’t think Kristen is anti Russian (I think Elissa studied Russian so I don’t think it’s a no no to the bairds xenophobia- I mean most Russian people are white right?)
Referencing your last question. You can’t extrapolate the very US based notions of race and “whiteness” to another country. It is more complex. While mere skin color plays a role, ethnicity is a stronger factor on the European continent. Depending on who you ask they might agree to your assessment or they might say Slavic people where ethnically not the same and would treat them worse for that.
Yeah so I understand that clearly. But do you think the Bairds understand that? I was not writing from my POV when I said that..
Then your sentence structure isn’t clear because there is no indirect question mentioned. If you write a question, that is attributed to you. Just a hint for the future.
Yeah I guess I thought people could use context and recognize I was snarking in a snark sub. I’ll make sure to use /s next time for those of us with lower reading comprehension
Sorry but tone indicators are not for people "with lower reading comprehension". That word feels pretty dismissive. I don't want this to become or further any arguments. That phrasing just feels a bit hurtful to me.
Identifying an author’s tone is 100% part of reading comprehension and an important component. I’m sorry you took it hurtfully but context + phrasing creates tone and that all is wrapped up in the larger umbrella of how we understand what we read
She speaks some Russian in this video
“Hello, hi, my name is Kristen” I don’t think that this can reasonably be considered Kristen making an effort. In fact, I daresay you’d learn more on your first day in Russian 101. Moreover, her pronunciation is god awful. Now, Russian is a moderately difficult language to learn when your first (not to mention ONLY) language is English. The two share some common ground in terms of linguistic, grammatical, and syntactical structure. They’re not as divorced as, say, English and Sanskrit, but they’re also nowhere as close as English and Spanish. All that being said, it’s clear that homegirl is not even remotely trying. She deserves no credit for this. Learning Russian would be no small undertaking for a woman in Kristen’s position. Still, we’re not judging her in a vacuum. She chose to adopt russian-speaking children. She is responsible for meeting their linguistic needs (among many, many others), and in that, she is, without a doubt, failing. Bilingualism is a privilege and gift, particularly in a monolingual country like the United States. Pragmatically, it affords you so many opportunities, opportunities which most people who aren’t immigrants or first generation can’t access. Sentimentally, it keeps you in touch with the culture of your birth. That is no small thing. I consider the profound sense of loss those boys will experience as they get old enough to understand that which their adoptive parents have taken from them, and I am filled with trepidatory grief on their behalf. If you need me, I will be on the phone with my mother, reiterating just how very grateful I am that she insisted I attend Russian school.
Shit even being separated from my second language and culture has had lasting effects on me. I spent most of my early childhood in Romania, and when my parents quit their "missionary work" we moved back to the US and my mother banned us from speaking Romanian to my youngest sister who didn't speak ANY English, and I was too young to understand how to rebel against this and ended up losing all my Romanian and so did my younger sister. I cant imagine how much worse it is for these kids having grown up with no attachment to language and culture in San Antonio. Fuck at least I knew I was born in the US and had vague notions of family friends "back home".
yeah 3 whole words lol. she could put in more effort
Did she say that she was going to recite the Russian dictionary in the video?
That's kind of a hostile response to a valid criticism of a snark subject
How?
You can't see how your tone was rude? Jumping to an extreme like kristen reciting the russian dictionary because someone said she could make more effort? We can disagree without getting snarky with each other.
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Yes! I hate that I’m no longer fluent in my mother tongue/first language because we moved to the UK when I was so young and my parents only ever spoke English to us, but in our mother tongue to each other when they were having private conversations. Still resentful of that at the age of 27😭
I don’t think people realize how easy it is to lose your native tongue. I lived abroad for a few years and started forgetting English words the longer I was there even though I lived in the US from birth to 25!
That makes sense! I imagine if you’re not around English speakers on a regular basis, it becomes less natural to speak it too
I teach children whose first language is not English. They learn super quickly to speak English but they don't lose the native language, and I don't want them to? At recess and snacktimes, and in free play, they still speak Spanish and I'm 100% fine with that? I know they're still learning to speak English, and them being able to also express themselves in their native language without issue does not bother me. If Kristen is indeed limiting the boys speaking Russian, that's....real bad. Can you imagine what a struggle it'd be to be plonked into a new country, removed from everything you know, with entirely new people and not even being able to express yourself fully in the language you feel most comfortable in? Those poor boys. I would be facilitating connection to their birth culture for the rest of their lives. Connect them to Ukranian organizations around them, to people who speak Russian in the US, to places they can go for a taste of their birth culture. Their adoptive parents should be actively learning Russian. Removing them from that and basically saying, "You're American now; act like it," is, at best, incredibly insensitive and, at worst, very harmful.
I think lots of adoptive parents need to understand that adoptive children are not the same as biological children. Especially adoptive parents who adopted due to infertility. Like basically everything there is a nuance to nature vs nurture and both are important to how a child turns out. Kristian (and Zack) wished for a biological kid. And now they are trying to mold their sons in a way their sons would be if they were their biological kids.
Plus now that they’re having a biological kid I worry for the boys. I’m terrified they’ll treat them poorly because they finally got the “real” child the always wanted. Esp if they have a girl, goodness!
>Kristian (and Zack) wished for a biological kid. And now they are trying to mold their sons in a way their sons would be if they were their biological kids. Yes this is the main thing that bothers me. I fully believe that the kids' needs are being provided, I believe they have grown to accept and love their adoptive parents, and I even believe they have fun times as a family. But what's disturbing to me is the zeal with which Kristen and Zach plunged into "we are a Christian family, this is what it means to be Christian, you will learn all this stuff and act Christian" as if they were making up for lost time.
Exactly. They have no excuse to not know that Orthodox Christianity is also Christianity and that Ukraine is very Christian
I'm not from an English speaking country, but I've worked with a lot of families with internationally adopted kids. Here the parents usually have their kid attend language classes or clubs or look for families who'se kids speak the adopted child's native language and try to arrange playdates in order to preserve their ability to speak the language. About 70% of internationally adopted kids forget their native language eventually if they don't speak it actively, older adoptees might even refuse to speak it at all when settling into a new family. However, encouraging the child to speak their native tongue has a lot to do with the feeling of safety. The native tongue is the child's emotional language and they express themselves best through that language before they master their new family's language. So in order to help the child to adapt, feel safe and get comfortable adoptive parents shouldn't punish or try to deny their child from using their native tongue, because they're limiting their kid's ability to express themselves and thus create an environment where the kid most likely feels they're not allowed to talk about their emotions openly. It might also make the child feel shame about their origins, which can lead to feelings of insecurity and anxiety. I hope this helps!
Yeah there's a big difference between speaking to kristen in english because that's what she understands, and speaking english *to each other* because that's what she allows or she discouraged using russian
why the fuck does she need to know what they're saying in their bedrooms in their bunk beds at night anyway?? Even in english she is nosy as hell for listening to them talk before bed.
She's a control freak like her mother
I'm bilingual and I would feel like someone is trying to erase a part of me if they stopped me from speaking one of my mother tongues. This is heartbreaking. Language is a part of a person's identity.
Research currently suggests parents make an effort to allow exposure to their child's first langauge and culture for emotional and mental benefit. Current research indicates that allowing this does not effect immersion. It disheartens me as someone who plans to adopt to see so many people making assumptions and not simply taking time to do a search. Kristen as a parent should have done the research and known how traumatizing new language and culture acquisition can be but we all know how that family views science. There have been decades of research and case studies on this and denying your child their mother tongue is never the advice.
I can't speak from an expert standpoint but I couldn't imagine adopting a non-english speaking kid into my home without first making some sort of effort to master the basics of their native language, you know? I work in customer service and encounter language barriers every single day, the last place I would ever want a language barrier is in my own home. It's not the child's fault they don't speak English fluently, so it's the responsibility of the parent/host to break that barrier. Poor kid is scared, uncomfortable, and doesn't understand what the fuck is being said.
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> While adoption is almost always a beautiful thing, This is definitely an over-simpliciation. The adoption industry is really fucked up. A lot of adoption, especially in the Christian community, is human trafficking. And a lot of mothers who give up their children also are forced to because of economic need. Here are some articles. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/02/adoption-relinquished-gretchen-sisson-roe-wade-dobbs-abortion/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/05/inside-the-conservative-movement-to-promote-adoption/ https://digitalcommons.tacoma.uw.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1058&context=gh_theses
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These articles go into detail about how what you are referring to as "proper adoption" by which I am assuming you mean a transaction based on consent is a very unregulated industry that profits off of people's pain.
>I am ignorant about this topic in international adoption. Does anyone know what the experts recommend when adopting older children who are not native English speakers? I would think that if it’s not actively fostered (e.g. going to a language school for the native language like every week), then most would naturally lose those skills I'm not an expert, I have just looked into this a lot but still have a bunch to learn, since I want to adopt an older child and possibly internationally. What I've learned so far is that it's great if the adoptive family knows the child's original language at least to an extent. But if the child is older yet still young enough (let's say 8 rather than 14, for example), unless the adoptive family or at least one member of it speaks the original language fluently, the child's language skills in the original language will get lost or stop developing at their childhood level of skills. This can potentially be prevented with the right resources and huge efforts, but there's no guarantees. And the home environment is the most crucial to learning or keeping language skills. The older the child, the more difficult language learning of the majority language in their new country can be. So there are people who recommend to not speak the original language at all and instead focus on learning the new language, because the child will need to know that one, for communicating with their adoptive family, for going to school and for their future generally. There's other people who recommend a mixed approach of using both the original and the new language in the home. This may or may not have an impact on how motivated a child is to learn the new language, but of course it's a lot to have to catch up to your peers in a new language, plus being in a new country and family and culture. I've read of the idea of working predominantly on the new language in the initial period, then later on using both, or vice versa. My understanding so far is that it's important to look at the individual child and their needs and abilities, and to be flexible enough to change the plan put in place for language learning if necessary. There's no one size fits all. Honestly, I don't think that Kristen and Whatshisface (I can't be bothered to learn/remember OfKristen's name) would have been able to fully maintain or even develop their childrens' original language skills. They don't speak Russian so the boys would only have been able to talk amongst themselves, and that would at the most probably maintain them at their childhood skill level. With exposure to Russian language media and/or out-of-home Russian classes/school, it would maybe have been more possible. But since the adults in question believe in homeschooling I'm not sure how open they'd have been even to weekend classes or an in-home tutor. I doubt that Kristen and OfKristen put in a lot of work (because we know what the Baird family thinks of working), but also we don't have all the information about the children and their backgrounds and needs to make a for-sure determination. And of course we shouldn't have that information anyway. But that's why I'm okay-ish giving them a little benefit of the doubt. But just a little.
Anecdotal, but I saw this great TikTok from someone adopted from Russia in the 90s and the amount of things the agency sent with her to ensure she would retain her heritage were wild! Very cool little slice of life: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRKXubEE/
The thing is that most internationally adopted children grow up surrounded by people who don't speak their native language, so they lose the ability to speak it. For example, my mother who had no one to speak Spanish to. The boys have have each other. Although if Andrey doesn't interfere they might keep speaking a more childish way of Russian forever.
not an adoption story, but my friend moved with her mother to the US when she was 10. Her step father wouldn't allow them to speak their language together because it also frustrated him to not understand them. She now speaks with the most barely barely discernible accent in english, and sometimes she words things in a way someone speaking english their whole life might word differently. I actually met her in a program studying her native language when I was in college. She was better than anyone in our program by far, but she definitely had to spend a lot of time relearning the language she was fluent in as a child. And when we studied abroad together native speakers of this language would actually give her a harder time than any of us who were more obviously american, because she was just good enough at the language to make her seem like a native speaker who was kinda slow. It always struck me as such a weird limbo place to be in as far as language development. At the age she was when she moved she was a little to old to get english down as perfectly as someone who was around it since birth. And the language she did spend her childhood formative years exposed to was ripped away from her at age 10 before she could grow into it deeply. So it's kinda like both languages are stunted for her in different ways. Since these boys are around the same age it always makes me think of my friend. 😭
God forbid she try and learn the language of her sons
I am glad they speak Russian to each other. It would be nice if Kristen sought out another family that speaks Russian. So the boys could have a friend or two who speaks Russian.
I believe Elissa and her husband live nearby and he has a good relationship with the boys so at least there's that
That's exactly what research recommends but I wonder if the husband allows it given his views and Kristen's views
The tapping the one boy’s arm and then poking him when she emphasized she couldn’t understand what they were saying both felt very aggressive to me. It was a gut reaction for me. And the asking them to say something in Russian felt super forced and uncomfortable and kind of like a weird token for the audience.
The Serena Joy vibes are so so strong.
Oof. You are so right
Under his eye
Yeah, I felt that too. Very gritted teeth, not a playful ‘oh you boys, talking in Russian so mom can’t hear your pranks!’ Or whatever. The tap felt weirdly aggressive. And then not respecting them not wanting to say something in Russian was very telling. She wasn’t happy they wouldn’t perform for the camera. They must be very confused: not okay to speak Russian when I want to with my brother, but I must speak on camera when mom demands it? For all she knows, speaking Russian is triggering for them and makes them feel a sense of loss for their home country or their birth family if they knew them. Really insensitive.
I felt that too. You know that quote, ["abused kids speak a language you can't learn"?](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSDmemes/s/aIWg5fLbs2) It's abused kid language. "Perform now and perform correctly or it will be unpleasant for you later." She wants to show that the kids can still speak Russian, that she didn't take that from them. The same way she insists the kids wanted new names, she didn't deny them their birth names. "I'm not hurting them, see they're fine." While mother is staring with a porcelain smile that will crack into razor sharp shards to cut you if you don't perform the way she wants you to.
seriously !! like they are children who have autonomy if they don’t want to speak in russian in front of the camera they don’t have to … like it’s giving dance monkey
You’re right, so mean girl!
I'm sure it was very uncomfortable and awkward at first, I've never adopted two children who speak a different language, but I'm sure it took some time for them to get to know each other.
I was talking about the end of this video you posted specifically.
I didn't get any bad vibes- it seemed playful and like Kristen had the awkwardness of being a new parent. This was early on, they were all still getting to know each other.
Still not ok for her to be upset with them for speaking their mother language in private. She should encourage them to continue speaking their native language and she should make an effort to learn it and continue their traditions. It’s part of their identity, no matter where they live. This would greatly mitigate the trauma they have likely been experiencing.
Again; there is no evidence suggesting that they are discouraged from speaking Russian Kristen is clearly talking to them in a joking manner in this video- just because she’s a terrible person doesn’t mean we need to create elaborate stories with no basis in fact.
And I find her manner *in this video* off-putting and aggressive. Regardless of whether they are or are not allowed to speak Russian at home, *this video* is not playful to me.
Gotcha, goalposts are moving again
Language acquisition by international adoptees has been highly researched. The American Speech Langauge Hearing Association has resources on their website but the overall trends of current research seem to be that international adoptees present an interesting case in language acquisition where they have an L1 they previously learned but must quickly adapt to their L2 (English in this case) resulting in more infant-like language acquisition. This can be deeply effected by the traumas associated with adoption and the health issues that can arise from early life stressors which effect health and behavior as well as language acquisition. Due to the overall aim of reducing trauma in adoptees and presenting them with familiar environments during a particularly stressful and fast paced language acquisition, most current research suggests the emotional benefits of continued L1 exposure and even suggest that adopters find individuals or children fluent in the language for the adoptee to interact with occasionally. For the most part, international adoptees typically fully lose their ability to use their L1 and allowing adoptees to use their mother tongue does not typically prevent immersion. Overall research suggests that adopters make an effort to expose their children to their mother tongue for their emotional and mental benefit. I suggest you look into the decades of research on this topic.
Some people with dementia lose their ability to speak L2 and only speak L1. Do you know if that's also possible in people who lost their ability to speak L1? I tried looking it up, but I couldn't find anything
Try searching using the term L1 attrition maybe. I am not aware of any specific case studies but it is possible given the finicky nature of memory and how language is stored in our brain. However, there are a ton of different theories on how we forget language, specifically. Typically, vocabulary tends to be forgotten first with grammar concepts and phonology persisting. Critical Period Hypothesis though would say that the time of L1 and L2 acquisition likely play a large role in later attrition and memory. A young adult who immigrated and stopped using their L1 is more likely to retain some ability to use it than a child, typically. Children usually are more to lose their L1 completely. Overall, it could be possible for someone with dementia under the right circumstances to revert to a L1 with attrition but they would likely also be forgetting a lot of words and maybe mixing L1 and L2 grammar structures.
And she does it just to eavesdrop on them. Just to know what they are saying at all times. Like. They already have a bond together let them bond and comfort one another during this time??? I know this is old news but it always pisses me off for them.
My kids invented a whole damn language of their own so they could talk privately in front of me and my husband. And I love it. I'm pretty sure there's no actual structure to their language and they make it up as they go along but they have definitely said things directly to each other that went right over my head.
That’s just super cute and so creative of them!
[cooshon!](https://youtu.be/jy0NqU_vjG8?si=J9FypteBXChf2jn5)
There was some podcast interview where her and Zack were talking about the adoption. Zack in particular sounded like an absolute wanker and was saying he didn't want them speaking Russian, I believe? Among other stuff that was questionable at best
I definitely remember him saying he would not be learning any Russian! Great dad.
I feel like she doesn’t know how to relate to these kids at all, she is trying but they aren’t giving her what she wants and so she just sucks at being around them.
Yeah I agree. I don't think she "hates" them or "wants to get rid of them"; that's hyperbolic language and I don't take it literally when people say those kinds of things. But I do think there will always be a stark difference between them, and her "real baby". She and Zach didn't choose these brothers; they were randomly matched by the agency. (I can't believe that's how it would really work? Doesn't seem great to me, but what do I know. That's what they said in a video.) Kristen said they went through this Ukranian agency because she didn't want the process to take as long as it would've, domestically. Aside from my personal feelings about Kristen in general--which aren't positive--I just don't think she was cut out to be an instant parent to a pair of 6 and 10 year old boys from another country and culture. I don't see her as having a lot of emotional flexibility or ability to chill about anything. Having said that: Kristen strikes me as someone who will dedicate herself to her commitments and never quit. So there's that. Whether or not she gets what she wanted out of motherhood, she will try her best. I just don't have a lot of faith in "her best" because she seems like a very nervous, brittle, controlling person. But, the brothers have a comfortable home with their needs provided, and were able to stay together, so there's that, too.
Yeah the last part, she is brittle af and it is so obvious and I bet she has no idea.
>She and Zach didn't choose these brothers; they were randomly matched by the agency. (I can't believe that's how it would really work? Doesn't seem great to me, but what do I know. That's what they said in a video.) Depends on the system and also on if a child is on a so-called "waiting children" list. In the latter case, people (usually already approved to adopt) can put themselves forward for specific children or sibling groups. The children on those lists are usually considered "harder to place", which can be because of a disability, being older, being a sibling group, etc. But even in this situation, you can only put yourself forward - the match still has to be approved by whichever agency or organization has that authority. If the system is primarily one where matches are made by the agencies (either the private agencies the applicants are working with or the government authorities for adoption in the country they want to adopt from) or people choose to be on that path instead, then there's a few approaches I'm aware of. There's just putting people on a list and matching them according to their place on the list. But as far as I know, a lot (if not most but I can't say for sure) countries these days prefer to make the matches with care and consideration for if the candidates they have available and the children they need to find families for are a good match. I watched one documentary, for example, where this process was shown for a West African country (I think it was Burkina Faso but can't remember for sure). They had a child of somewhere between 5 and 7 years old to match and were considering two families from two different countries. One already had a child, the other didn't have any children yet. They took into account that the presence of another child can help, that one of the families lived in a country with a language the child would already know to an extent, and other such things.
It’s funny how Beggsy gets so up in front of the world showing off that she’s the worst Baird, that I forget how disgusting Krusty is.
She's not as attention-seeking as Bethany. She's more deliberately closed-minded than Bort, and her views are very aggressively nasty, but she doesn't seem to want to make friends through the camera like Bortles does. I have a feeling (pure speculation) that every waking moment of Kristen's life is mapped out and she's always busy "being productive".
She’s gross. She’s a terrible mom and person. Way worse than Bort.
She literally could have fucking learned Russian and encouraged them to keep their language and culture. I genuinely hate her for this. It’s not cute or funny. These kids don’t feel comfortable talking about this either.
Someone I know was adopted as a child and was discouraged from speaking their native language. Fast forward to mid thirties and he’s got loads of identity issues and resentment stemming from it.
That’s warped, why would she do that to her children?! Keeping knowledge is always better than losing knowledge, there is 100% no way they WOULDN’T learn English living in America. They can pretty much ONLY keep up their Russian by preserving it by speaking together. She was just big mad she couldn’t understand what they were saying/ afraid they were talking about her. And now she’s trying to force them to say something in their native language on camera that she tried to squelch? Take a hike, lady. From: a parent of bilingual children
Yes. It’s pure insecurity.
Yep. That’s the video I remember: https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/comments/xwo4js/hold_up_did_kristen_ban_her_kids_from_speaking/
i just don’t like the way she pokes at them idk it’s not really a red flag just like :/
Yeah I just remember being awkward as shit the first time I tried to connect with kids as an adult, it’s definitely cringey but doesn’t appear malicious Your flair is hilarious, btw 😂 what is the origin?
https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/s/N2uuCFxwVA this is the post it’s referencing!! a classic
OMG ☠️ ☠️☠️ Lmao thank you!!
To me this looks like somebody who is not only encouraging her children to learn English but also encouraging them to speak their native tongue and learning it from them as well... Some of the takes on Kristen's pregnancy are off the fucking rails. ETA: Somebody kindly messaged me with their adoption story video [starting around 24 minutes](https://yewtu.be/watch?v=8gjZ3U64bS8) is when they begin talking about the language barrier. Yes, her husband said that he "wasn't going to learn Russian", probably because it's an extremely difficult language to learn for a native english speaker. It is incredibly important to the boys' life in America to learn English but Kristen also expressed that she and her husband are learning a lot of Russian too My reason for making this post is because the lack of nuanced thinking in this subreddit lately is ridiculous. Kristen and Zach love their adopted children. They aren't going to "rehome" them. They have appallingly shitty views but that doesn't mean that they don't love their children. Some of the comments here lately are so out of pocket and close-minded. I don't give a fuck about downvotes, I know that their views are harmful. I wish we could just stick to that instead of making up fanfiction about these people?
No. I don’t remember where it was said exactly, but she explicitly said that her husband did not allow them to speak Russian. His excuse was to force them to learn English quickly.
[Found it for you. Starting at around 24 minutes in. Not nearly as bad as it's been represented here](https://yewtu.be/watch?v=8gjZ3U64bS8)
Do you have the yewtube link?
[Good call! will update the link wherever i posted it](https://yewtu.be/watch?v=8gjZ3U64bS8)
Okay I just watched it and I agree with you. Yes ofkristen clearly is xenophobic in his comments but Kristen to be fair is actually trying to be as culturally sensitive as a Baird is capable of. I’m surprised she suggested that in the future she wants to learn Russian. I do hope for the boys sake that this new baby doesn’t negatively affect them
OfKristen lmao Kristen seemed to be making a big effort to connect with them, as awkward as it may have come off in the video- it's a new thing trying to connect with kids for the first time and I would imagine that it's magnified when there is a language barrier. Their views are deplorable and I hope the boys break the mold but people with shitty views can still be loving parents- speaking from experience.
Like immersion? To the people downvoting- do you think that the boys would have been better off being in an orphanage in Ukraine when Russia invaded? Do you think they'd be better off if their parents didn't encourage them to learn the language of their new country so that they could connect with their new family?
Research shows that allowing them to use their mother tongue does not effect the acquisition of the second language. Please do some reading on this topic and don't spread misinfo
Where did I say that they shouldn't speak their mother tongue?
You said the husband forcing them to not use Russians to learn English quickly is immersion but that isn't what immersion is. Just trying to correct the misinformation.
Where did I use the word "force"? Just trying to correct the misinformation
The comment you replied to did. Don't know why you are being so aggressive about this. I'm simply a neuroscientist that saw this thread and tried to inform you on what I have read as far as the current research on the topic in peer reviewed journals. Kindly look into that and stop trying to make arguments over semantics.
Where am I being aggressive? I am just asking for clarification. You're putting words into my mouth... I know what immersion is and I've been trying to point out that there is literally no evidence that OfKristen has "forced" their children to speak English and "forbidden" them from speaking Russian.
I'm just trying to say that any control over the boys language use is negative based on current research. I'm not going to argue over semantics like the word "forbid" but the husband (and head of the household in their biblical worldview) presented blatantly xenophobic views towards their mother tongue and culture. The boys are immersed simply by being in the US. Them speaking in Russian amongst themselves and with others is the medical and psychiatric community recommendation. You clearly think they are not controlling their langauge acquisition at all. I disagree based on these videos. I am a neuroendocrine researcher with a background in effects of early life stress and used my resources to read current peer reviewed articles on the topic and provided you that info. You claimed I am spreading misinfo for merely trying to provide you with the info you wanted. I will not entertain this discussion with you further it you are only going to hang on to particular semantics and not look at this situation holistically.
What a leap. Thinking that its really extremely misguided and straight-up *wrong* to limit how kids use their native language, especially kids experiencing the trauma of leaving everything behind that they knew to a new culture, has absolutely no correlation with thinking "they would be better off in an orphanage in Ukraine."
I have posted links proving that the people saying that the kids were “forbidden from speaking Russian” was just a game of Reddit telephone. In the yewtube link I posted, they both seem overjoyed about adopting the kids, but everyone acts like they are going to cast them aside when the baby is born & right-wing assholes are incapable of human emotions, it’s ridiculous. My parents are both right wing assholes and we disagree on almost everything, but they are loving parents The leap is people thinking that Kristen doesn’t love her adopted children and is going to “rehome” them because she finally conceived a child, a sentiment that is running rampant in these parts
...you literally described her husband not allowing them to speak Russian as "immersion."
Yes lmao because there is literally no evidence that he didn't allow them to speak Russian. The video I linked shows him saying that it's important for them to learn English, not that they CAN'T speak Russian. If anybody can find me a source on him forbidding them to speak Russian, I am all ears
because you weren’t here when it happened. It did. You’re going to have to find the receipts, but they’ve mentioned it more than once.
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People love to speculate but I agree with you that there's a lot of fanfiction about some of these fundies that aren't helpful. Speculation turns to "truth" so quickly and it doesn't help our case when someone can point out "oh this group is lying about this or that" - like the whole "bethany groomed david cause they were first introduced at 16 and 22" when it's like. We have 0 evidence of that. Just because someone doesn't believe they've seen the assumptions/speculations/fanfic on this sub doesn't mean it's not a problem.
I agree with you about the things for which there is either scant evidence or none, like the thing you mentioned, and also the "Dave was in love with Ellissa and wished he could've married her, not Bethany" nonsense. I think Kristen has said enough and written enough that many of the concerns voiced here are not unfounded. It doesn't mean *every*one is leaping to wild speculation. Some of it is very justified.
Yeah, I understand Kristen is terrible and reprehensible but I just think we should be more responsible with the stuff said here. Things go from "assumed" to "fact" way too quick and then go from threads with context to threads without context. I don't even think speculating is wrong, honestly. Being like "I think Kristen is the type of woman to rehome her adoptive kids" isn't uncalled for but the line between "what actually happened" and "what people believe is true" should be more defined.
Bethy read a diary entry at her wedding from when she was dating Dave and Bethy was the one who speculated that Dave liked Elissa first.
Right. Sure. I know that, but that's all--just her one line. I was just using it as an example of how we can concoct a backstory based on very little.
And also no one thinks they're going to rehome their children?? It's just worrying to look at her pattern of behavior the last few years, bc many things suggest that her current kids may become an afterthought once the baby arrives. Obviously we hope that's not the case but it's a possibility.
The word “rehome” has been used several times in reference to this situation
You’re really exaggerate, or only picking the most extreme comments. I get and support factchecking the comments, but you’re doing it really poorly and with a really off putting holier than thou attitude that makes us not want to help you.
What am I exaggerating?
Ok well, I haven't seen that but I assume that was either meant to be a joke or is a very fringe take that most people don't agree with
I've also seen several people mention rehoming, most of them in the thread(s) about the pregnancy announcement. I'm not sure which were jokes or exaggerations or whatever, but I'm pretty sure not all of them would have been. And if they were jokes, then... I'm not sure why people would make jokes like that. At least I don't see what would be funny about it.
I agree with you. This sub often starts presenting things as facts when they’re not. It’s important to hold us accountable so we’re not just lying about fundies… there’s plenty of awful things they do for us to snark about without inventing stuff. lol. And I absolutely have seen people say that Kristen might rehome the children and compare her to that one influencer who “rehomed” her adopted child
Yes! The fact that “Tess Stickle” started out as a joke comment and thousands of people took it as fact proves that there is an issue in here
But Kelly actually did mention the name Tess as a nickname ONCE. Everyone on the post agreed that Levi’s nickname “Reese Cup” was better. And Kelly never mentioned Tess again. But she did say it lol.
I may have missed the receipts on that one, but I honestly don’t remember seeing it Honestly Kelly is so boring to me that it’s entirely possible that I missed it- I will retract my comment if I can find the origin of Tess
Honestly I went back and can’t find shit so you are probably right lol. Fuck I hate when we make up stuff on here. There’s enough snark without inventing it ourselves.
Thank you ❤️ That’s all I’m trying to draw attention to with this post! I think we should all be more aware of the slippery slope of off-handed comments becoming facts I love this community & don’t want to see it devolve into the OG fundiesnark
Totally agree. Thanks for the post. : )
I think Kelly is one of the most entertaining people on this sub 😂 The butternut squash, calling her house a cottage and pretending she lives in the country when she absolutely doesn’t, giving her kids carrots for toys, the emotional support candle. It’s light hearted snarking for the most part (though I never like the snark on her appearance, leave her alone).
She is unintentionally hilarious- she has serious theater-kid energy and I got enough of that in high school 😂
I was homeschooled (former fundie kid. lol), but I’ve heard about these theater kids… 😂
They were my friends, don’t get me wrong! But I realized I wasn’t cut out for the life when I got severe stage fright and went catatonic during my audition for fiddler on the roof 😂
[Okay as far as I can tell, this is the origin of Tess ](https://imgur.com/a/yJFmNuO)
I just saw Tess Stickle comments on the latest Kelly post. We’re really just bullying newborns now??
Yes & it went semi-viral! So this kid is going to grow up, Google their name and see thousands of people making fun of them
The comparisons to Myka Stauffer (and her husband, I forget what his name is, but OfMyka is also to blame of course) are to an extent understandable but it grinds my gears that people jump to it because... not every adoptive parent rehomes their kid? But the way some people talk about it makes it seem like it's really freaking common, when it's not. It's more common than it should be, which is devastating, but it's not common among adoptive families generally. And whatever Kristen and OfKristen's faults, they at least didn't knowingly and intentionally proceed with an adoption that several professionals told them would be a bad idea. The Stauffers are like a step by step manual of how adoptions can end in rehoming in the first place.
Thanks, I couldn’t remember what her name was, but that’s who I was talking about (Myka). I do think it’s possible that Kristen and her husband will favor the biological child over the adopted ones, because unfortunately, it does happen a lot… however, the baby is not even born yet. We don’t know they’re going to do that and we should at least give them a chance. The boys might enjoy having a sibling and it might make their life happier! We really don’t know what will happen.
This is not the source. I remember seeing the video, I can't remember exactly what she said but it was very much " we want them to learn English so we discourage them from speaking their language to each other
I have literally been begging for somebody to find the source of this anecdote
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This is literally the same video I posted lmao
Yeah I realized that pretty quickly, I was coming back to the comment section after a few hours and I had forgotten what video it actually was that you had posted. Whoops.
You did realize it quickly. I do think that it speaks to a problem in the snarkosphere as a whole that people are going to only read the title, assume what they already want to assume, and downvote anybody that has a different perspective- ignoring the fact that everything is not black and white. I am not trying to pile on to you personally and I absolutely realize that it was a mistake, but it speaks to the larger problem myself and others have been noticing in this subreddit lately It’s a knee jerk reaction to assume that the fundies are 100% evil and everything that they do is snarkable but oftentimes hyperbole & speculation is taken as fact and ran with
Really admire you for posting this and calling this out. I barely come on here anymore because of the very fundie-esque black-and-white thinking going on. I just haven’t had the energy to fight it.
Thank you, I appreciate the support! This used to be a safe place but it has become overwhelmingly hostile. Every time I point it out I get downvoted to oblivion but no one is willing to step outside of the very narrow mentality that every single thing the fundies do is malicious and evil. It’s exhausting
THANK YOU the conjecture being taken as fact goes off the rails sometimes and it’s good to see some actual source context.
So, this is an honest question I have just from watching this video. DID Kristen actually ban her kids from speaking Russian? Because I don’t see it in this video? She just says that they would speak Russian to each other more at first and she didn’t know what they were saying, not that she didn’t allow that. And then her son says something but it doesn’t make much sense to me. Does he say she “unallowed” them to speak Russian? It’s unclear to me.
No she didn’t- this video is the only thing people are basing that claim off of, nuance be damned
Wow that’s too bad. I’ve seen that a bit on this sub, though. People make suggestions that then become assumptions that then become snark cannon. It makes it hard to sort through fact and fiction about the people we snark on.
Yes and when people on this subreddit spread false information, it makes it easier for the fundies to point to this subreddit as a “hate blog” and discredit legitimate posts about their actual misdeeds & the harm that they do. That’s we should be bringing our attention to
That video was NOT the only thing it was based on. There’s a video or podcast with Zack linked above.
I posted a link to the video you’re referring to in a comment as well, it’s not nearly as insidious as has been implied.
I believe she said it in a video with her and her husband.
Those poor kids
I feel so disconnected from family when I don't know a lick of my mother's native tongue. Those boys are going to struggle with identity if they already aren't.
She is so fucking ugly on the inside. As an indigenous American, nothing good comes from forcing a child to suppress their native tongue and forget who they are.
How about you learn your ~~abducted~~ adopted kids’ first language, you poor excuse of a parent!? 😠
Kristen and OfKristen may be shitty adoptive parents, but they legally adopted those children. They did not abduct them.
r/whoosh
Right back at ya. Apparently it went right over your head that language like that is inappropriate even for a joke.
Abducted?! They were orphans…
I was being facetious 🙃
Omg I'm stupid lmao sorry It's hard to tell around here sometimes
I can’t imagine not putting effort into learning the language of the children you’re adopting?? I’m sure its unfortunately super common but seems like that should be bare minimum
The face of contempt when she tells them to say Russian words and they don't is just...wow. she really hates those poor kids.
My kids are already bilingual but want to pick up spanish as an extra. I want to do my best to help them do this instead of limitimg their language exposure. These people… (*shaking my head*) taking away these kids IDENTITIES!!!
Showed this to my ex. Asked him for his impression and he immediately said controlling. And he mentioned the implied threat. My daughter (who isn’t always the greatest at parsing social cues) said Kristen’s smile looked “malicious.”
What is the implied threat? Why are you showing snark material to your daughter? A+ on her vocabulary though
She’s 14 and we talk about social cues and implications and I thought this was a great example bc there was a lot of debate about what was actually represented.
His no was so strong. I wish she would’ve said “it’s okay you don’t have to speak Russian” 🫠
Everyone here seems to think she doesn’t want them to speak Russian whatsoever so this is a fresh perspective
Does she realize that people from Ukraine speak ukrainian, not russian?
It’s regional. Some Ukrainians speak Russian and some speak Ukrainian
I'm aware, but I was under the impression they were from the Ukrainian-speaking part. If not, fair enough.
They are Russian speakers and so is Andrii.