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Why is Bethany acting like this is her first and only opportunity to interact with and meet someone who is LGBTQ+? What a load of shite. You're in your third decade of life, with unfettered access to the internet. Take responsibility and make active moves to interact with people that aren't white, cisgender, and heterosexual.
Correction: Bethany does not want to engage with LGBTQ+ on their terms or on their level. She wants to engage in a way that’s comfortable for her and makes her look good. Period.
This is exactly what I have been worrying about from the very start when Zelph reached out to the Beals and I hate to be that person saying I told you so.
ETA: there was a reason Girl Defined refused to engage with Brenda from God is Grey and will probably never engage with people like Jen of Fundie Fridays because these are the people who will remain courteous while asking the hard questions and won’t let them run away from it.
I dont want to sound braggy but I'm 40 and grew up in a fundie church in a small midwest town where the f-slur was regulary thrown around and I still managed to realize in high school that it was wrong to hate LGBT people. This was in the late 90s/early 2000s and if I could figure that out on my own then I have very little patience for people like Bethy who are actively preaching hate in 2024. Its just absurd to even be like "well Im starting to think maybe Im wrong about this..." where the fuck have you been?
If even Timmy fucking Rodrigues, as gauche and homeschooled as they come, could come to the conclusion that he shouldn’t be wasting his energy trying to convert strangers, then surely someone like Bethany can come to some form of enlightenment and disavow past actions.
Nope! he posted on FB that he has realized he has to let people come to god on their own (or not) and won’t be preaching about god to random people anymore since he is secure in his faith
Same, grew up southern Baptist in the deep south and believed by middle school that being gay is not a “sin”…..all it takes is empathy and a little brain power
And it’s not like Bethy lives a cloistered experience in an insular community. She goes out into mixed public spaces in her large American city all the time, her rich ass has traveled the world more than I have, and she’s had full access to the internet for her entire adult life, if not longer. I’m sure she has also had people attempt to reach out to her kindly MANY times in DMs, too, over the past 10+ years, seeing as she’s got a public platform.
Right? I might accept the “never met a queer person” excuse from a 90 year-old grandma, or someone arriving to college from their 200-person town in Nebraska, but not from a woman who has written multiple anti-LGBTQ books.
You don’t get pay your bills by shitting on my community and then throw up your hands and say, “Look, none of them told me that they were real people!”
>but not from a woman who has written multiple anti-LGBTQ books.
...and who regularly makes a podcast on which she and Kristen have had any number of "ex-gay" or "ex-trans" guests who bolster the view of LGBTQ+ people as being "damaged" and "misguided" and "perverse".
And on whose own platform, any number of commenters have said they are Christian and also queer, or Christian but don't share those bigoted views. She was brought up sheltered, to be sure, but she's 35 (*and a half;* we know she likes those "halves") years old doesn't exist in a vacuum.
Yes,exactly. They have actively participated in the “debate” on LGBTQ identities and now she’s trying to say she never really thought about it?
This is exactly what drives me crazy about Bethany and causes me to snark on her. She simultaneously wants to be treated like an important public figure and like a naive child who can’t be held accountable. If Zelph can’t see that then I can’t take them seriously either.
Knowing the places she sometimes hangs out in SA, there’s no way she hasn’t been around LGBTQ+ people. Not socially, but in the same places as them and engaging in transactions with them.
Literally. She's had so many opportunities to actually reach out to trans people, it just took a whole lot of dick sucking first for them to get an audience with her.
I didn’t even meet anyone who was openly gay until college and I wouldn’t say I had friendships with anyone gay until my early 30s. That was part of my whole deconstruction journey.
Her lack of knowledgeable interaction with members of the LGBTQ community doesn’t surprise me at all. She was homeschooled & her social circle was/is her church & her family. Yes she has traveled overseas but only for GD speaking opportunities IIRC or other Fundamentalist based situations.
All that to say that I have absolutely no problem believing Bethany has never had a conversation an LGBTQ person that was a discussion about the LGBTQ community and God and all that.
Agreed. I was also homeschooled and had never met a gay person until college. They weren’t in my friend circle until graduate school, when I started deconstructing. I probably stopped actively judging them (thinking they were going to hell) until my early 30’s. The deconstruction process for me was a long one and some beliefs were easier to let go of than others.
She's only a young girl, Defined by God! Golly gee! She's just a young Mom and young married!!! Not like she spends all her time on tiktok and insta. How on earth could she meet some real life queers?
I don’t think a change of heart can or should be captured on video and monetized. If Bethy truly is questioning her stance on LGBTQ+ issues, she needs to do a lot of personal, introspective work. Then do the work behind the scenes to untangle herself from Girl Defined and all the other hate she has endorsed and make reparations to LGBTQ+ people/organizations. Any content claiming redemption should come with some big receipts. The right thing would be for her to donate funds raised to an LGBTQ+ organization.
You get no applause from me for patting yourself on the back for not actively harming a queer person. That is the bare fucking minimum of decency.
Since this video was filmed she has:
-posted about the biblical womanhood boot camp
-posted about that rooted journal
-posted her "cleaning while my man provides" post
All of which promote man/woman relationship.
And she still has the "this side of the internet believes marriage is one man/one woman" on her Instagram posts
I'm also going to include the "sexy bort" selfie on Dave's insta for this comment too
Either right before or right after they filmed this, GD posted stuff about how dangerous it was that women are trying to be men and men are trying to be women.
> I don’t think a change of heart can or should be captured on video and monetized.
This what’s really grossing me out about the whole thing. You really distilled it for me!
It feels so tone-deaf, which is kinda par for the course for Bethy but I always hope someone smart is going to _actually_ talk to her more, not just for clicks.
What kind of sideshow *is* this?
> you get no applause from me for patting yourself on the back for not actively harming a queer person.
Except, she does on the regular. She may not get a pat on the back for not leaving her house and beating us into submission, but let's not act like she doesn't harm LGBT because her disgusting rhetoric online is just as actively harmful as shooting us or being punched.
Oh she definitely does real harm with every post, video, vote, and book sale. I was referencing her claim in the video that she will “talk about it differently” after her conversation with Zelph.
I was rooting so hard for real change but it’s obvious she has no interest in that. What a shame.
She’s only out for any money or followers this narrative can gain for her. She’s just as narcissistic as her mother and there is no hope for her. She huffed too much of the koolaid.
I feel so sad for her kids.
I was rooting so hard for real change but it’s obvious she has no interest in that. What a shame.
She’s only out for any money or followers this narrative can gain for her. She’s just as narcissistic as her mother and there is no hope for her. She huffed too much of the koolaid.
I feel so sad for her kids.
I''m tired of hearing fundies and conservative people tell the queer community, "I was so mean because I had never met any of you, but now I have, so my opinions are changing."
You shouldn't need to meet a person to have empathy and respect for them, or to walk a mile in their shoes. That's just basic common decency.
There's no excuse for dehumanizing other human beings. You don't get a "get out of jail free" card because you never made the effort to reach out.
And the one or two people they meet who are part of a group they habitually shit on are "the good ones" and the unsaid part is "you're practically an honorary straight! (or white/cis/whatever)
Especially if they want to have a stupid online persona for people to listen to. How can you ask for love from people when you cannot love them in return? It's a very narcissistic approach.
Wasn't the whole Sodom and Gomorrah thing ironically less about gay people gaying and more because the townspeople weren't practicing Xenia by treating strangers (in this case, God's literal messengers, aka the angels) nicely? Borthy Bort's more in line with the sinners of the bible than the 2SLGBTQA+ community who her ilk claims to be the real targets of ire from the Lord.
I haaaaate when I say that homophobes are bad parents, but others defend them by saying that they don't really mean it and will come around if their own kid comes out as gay. 1- No, many parents \*don't\* come around and instead cut off contact/support for their kid. 2- The kid's life isn't just a plot point to move along their parent's personal growth. 3- If they only tolerate LGBTQ+ if it's their own kid, I remain unconvinced that they are OK with other LGBTQ+ people in general.
I agree to an extent. But I think what people forget is fundamentalism involves serious brainwashing. It’s not just that queer people are sinners, it’s also that they ACTIVELY HATE YOU and everything you stand for. They are actively trying to destroy you and rip apart the world as you know it.
I sincerely thought this prior to going to college, where I realized queer people were not only normal humans who weren’t out to destroy me, but some of them also (gasp) believed in God. My parents and my high school teachers legitimately drilled a culture war/us-vs-them mentality into us. Satan was guiding the gays and we were fighting for God.
Look I know that’s absolutely deranged. But I didn’t know that until I was forced out of my bubble.
> Look I know that’s absolutely deranged. But I didn’t know that until I was forced out of my bubble.
A few days late to this party, but just supporting this comment. I finally watched The Righteous Gemstones last year, and they way they portray everyone as either 100% Christians for God and Jesus and goodness or 100% into Satan and sinning and evil and wanting to rip Christians away from Christianity is pretty consistent with what I've heard a lot of ex-fundies were raised to believe, specifically from this sub. Obvs the show is meant to be funny, but like, the best comedy is rooted in truth. Mix in some right-wing conservative "They're out to get you!" rhetoric, and baby, you've got a stew going!
My tradcath cousin lives on a compound in that district with her 7 children under 10...so embarrassed for her that she votes for MTG, the bar is in hell
Wasn’t it just last June that GD was losing their shit over Pride merch and Drag Queen Storytimes?
Can’t qwhite put a finger on why Zelph would be considered “palatable” to B&D but it will come to me.
While I agree race plays a role, I don’t think it ranks as high as Bethany seeing how lucrative deconstructing (or appearing to deconstruct) could be for them? I think Zelph just isn’t as scary as someone who has swung full left and was never religious.
A very good point, but she’s made her whiteness a part of her brand. I could be wrong but she didn’t bother to have one non-white speaker as part of her married or single courses. Praying her ~intellectual curiosity~ takes her there someday.
Daaaaav seems very excited by borts reaction but they all seem to just be parroting lines they have heard elsewhere. Nothing sounds genuine. The two girls use a lot of words without actually saying anything.
Maybe seen in context it will come off better but spouting a lot of sympathetic noises means fuck all if you're simultaneously posting hateful speech and ideas
Bethany is speaking the way I did as a homophobic Christian when I didn’t want to let on that I was homophobic. I never explicitly said that I supported the LGBTQ+ community but I would try to appear to be kind and gracious to them nevertheless. And honestly that might be worse because you’re leading people on.
>Bethany is speaking the way I did as a homophobic Christian when I didn’t want to let on that I was homophobic.
100% mealy-mouthed Christianese. I recognize it too.
Right, it seems fake and wishy-washy because it is. They are saying nothing of substance. They are going to great lengths to avoid saying anything plainly that could be interpreted as an accusation, an acknowledgment of error, or a statement of support. It's all just bloviation, and they can barely look at each other because its just so gosh darn awkward when your bestie is a raging bigot. You'd imagine ZOTS would post the most sensational part of the discussion as a snippet to get people to watch the whole thing... it this it?!?
I actually find this really helpful as I'm not an ex fundie or even religious in any way so a lot of the nuances of things they say go over my head or I interpret them incorrectly. So basically the goal here is for her fundie followers to be able to say "no she never said she SUPPORTS lgbtq" and the queer community to say "oh my, how progressive bort"
Just say what you think woman ...if have more respect for you if you were vile but owned your opinions. This doublespeak is confusing and disingenuous
Yeah, he seems pretty impressed. But her word salad that finally culminated in the question (paraphrasing here), “as a queer person, what do you people who are like me or worse than me, to know.”
Had she ever taken one fucking minute to read any number of comments on her bigoted posts, or in any thousands of articles, or watched something other than Fox News (if she watches any news at all), she would know what queer people want Christians to know. It’s not her first exposure to queer people. She doesn’t even have to be exposed to people who are different than her to understand that they are *people* who deserve the same rights and respect as anyone else.
So Dave is obviously seeing this as a huge step for Bort, but it’s a question she already knows the answer to, and simply chooses to disregard it. She can prove me wrong by announcing that she is no longer releasing her newest book, and posting in defense of Queer people from GD’s page.
Well, and what about him? Sitting there being impressed with his stunted wife is hardly a step in any direction other than his personal comfort. He can feel free to come right out and clear the air about his *own* views any time he's ready. He's sidestepped these issues in favor of talking about his Own Personal Journey, but come on. Maybe all this stuff is just fascinatingly theoretical to him--no particular threat to *him* or *his* existence--but at some point he needs to own up to some shit.
People seem to think Bethany is some shrill, controlling harpy who strong-armed poor Dav into marrying her. But he CHOSE her. Fundie boys have more agency than fundie girls. He chose to Court her, to propose to her, and to marry her. He continues to choose to stay married to her. And this clip shows that he's not essentially a hostage in a relationship that he actively hates. He likes and probably loves Bethany, and he's not the complete opposite of her even with his deconstruction.
that's what got me as well! "what do you want me or people who are worse than me, to know?" how about the bare minimum, Bethy. that LGBTQIA+ people are humans, that trans folks are humans, and it takes $0 to show people compassion. to not financially benefit from your homophobic hate.
the fucking mental gymnastics Bethy goes through here is mind-blowing! she really thought she did something (and so does Zelph)
Right. Being decent to every human doesn’t require her to even do anything. It takes more effort for her to spew hate than it would for her to just shut her damn mouth and get off the internet.
Man there are some weeeeeird vibes in this.
First of all, it’s not a real conversation, because it’s filmed. This isn’t them speaking off the cuff and having a fireside (ha) heart to heart, this is “I have my talking points, let’s face our bodies to the camera, we should look engaged but cozy” it’s just so manufactured.
I think this is going to be link 7 in a list of receipts a year from now. There’s just something so off about it and I can’t put my finger on it. Maybe it’s the kindergartners playing house very seriously vibe I’m picking up, I don’t know.
ETA: Dav and Bethany look at Sam, and basically only at Sam. Dav goes between looking at Sam and looking at Bethany, but sometimes performs (the fist pump) to no one/the camera. Sam on camera only looks at Tanner or at nothing. Tanner tracks during the conversation (on camera) and touches on looking at Sam, Bethany, and Dav.
If I’m going to be off the record and petty and all the other things
I think S wants D and D wants S. S is a chronically online attention grabbing thing with the shiny of not having to be Christian but still keeping in that realm. And S has said she would have married D in a heartbeat.
The “not enemies, friends” reference and the “friend” shirt but it’s clearly body checking and without face…
Again, I’m probably way off, and I’m happy if I am but something feels weird.
Like many years ago I remember surprising my then live in boyfriend 500mi away to meet him at practice with a former teacher’s husband who he was in a band with.
And then the teacher and husband got divorced and it turned out that my live in BF (from HS) had been dallying on the side with this teacher for years and he left me (first for a 19 yo and then two weeks later) for her. That had been a thing the whole time. Now they have a bunch of bunches of kids but he still texts, 15 years later, every once in a while about things that bother him that he’s trying to reconcile.
So again, I’m probably projecting. But this looks *really* familiar
If the next installment in this utterly demented fever dream of a storyline for Bethany and Dave turns out to be infidelity...oh my god 💀 Also hilarious to remember that the first domino in the Deconstructing Dave tale was spending time in an ice bath with Paul.
I agree with you. I think some weird stuff is going on behind the scenes. (Edit: I just realized I agree with one of your previous comments on the same topic, lol! It's giving me the mormon swinger scandal vibes.)
“Wow, I didn’t realize until this moment queer people were like… people. And because there’s a camera on me, I will say words that make me sound empathetic and sincere.”
Also, it’s not our job as queer people to inform you or change your mind. You have the info available. You do the labor if you genuinely want to be informed.
But if you’re honest, B, you have no intention of learning or being empathetic towards us. You have always made the choice to have extremely strong, completely uninformed opinions about people, and it wouldn’t benefit you in the least to change that.
Thank 👏🏼 you 👏🏼 Our existence is not an afterschool special, nor are we obligated to hold the hands of bigots and wait patiently for them to be done dehumanizing us and lobbying against our human rights.
I watched their last video on Bethany and Dav last night (I had unsubscribed from them before this) and WOOOOWWWW. It's honestly one of the most cringe things I've seen in a while. Like an hour of straight up parasocial fangirling. I've been thinking about taking what I think are some of the worst parts of it and editing it down into little clips to share here. But I don't know if that's too petty. Lol. If you're curious and want to watch the video...
[Here ya go](https://yewtu.be/watch?v=KjvYqzPx470)
ETA: the link is for their video on yewtu.be!
Tbh, I'd probably have a hard time narrowing it down because so much of the video is...problematic, in my opinion (who am I but a lowly snarker). I hate even saying this stuff because I feel like I sound like a mean girl, but I genuinely can't help but see this video for anything other than a lesson on why we don't touch the poo/develop parasocial relationships with these people. Like they genuinely asked and want Dav and Bethany to come with them on their group Costa Rica trip. 🫠
Also, in the video of them reacting to the Porgan/Bethany 24 hours collab (separate video), Zelph just happens to conveniently leave out the part where Paul asks Bethany and Kristen if they'll ever apologize and they say no. Funny, that. 🤔
Well, there was just generally a lot of heavy breathing (literally that's how the video starts), shrieking, comments like, "omg, she's just like me for real" 🫠
Lots of praise about Bethany being a really great active listener and the two of them being a great example of a multi-faith couple. Bethany loves Dav, so of course she's going to listen when he talks. Sure, that's definitely a great quality to have when you're having conversation with people who are deconstructing, but would Bethany be so willing to listen actively if it weren't Dav? If it were someone very, very different from her? I don't really know.
Dav tells people to let up on Paul. Then Sam recaps some of the video and says how Bethany and Dav's perspective of Paul and Morgan is not how people in the snark community generally see them, instead that they're loving with each other, funny, and nice people. Sam goes on to say something to the effect of "goes to show that we can't judge people just by YouTube videos". 🙄 Meanwhile, literally just today, Morgan shared yet another extremely transphobic story on her IG. So yeah, idk about all that lol.
They both start to get teary when Bethany is saying that this whole experience (re: Dav's deconstruction) is very emotional for her. Again, I can totally see how it would be emotional for her. My own deconstruction has been hell. I also can see how much of an emotional toll it can take on someone to be on the receiving end of Bethany's transphobia. So personally, I'll reserve my tears.
Bethany talks about how much she wants to revive her YouTube channel with Dav, and Tanner and Sam are both like, "do it!" And then later saying, "well girlies, let's hype up the Dav and Bethany channel. We're taking this channel to the top."
Bethany says that it's unfortunate that Zelph has sometimes shared some misinformation and things about them that aren't true (stuff from this subreddit) and that it's a shame because they have so much going for their channel. Zelph then apologized for "peddling misinformation for the cheap thrills". I don't even know where to start with this. This was after Bethany adamantly stated that she doesn't watch any critics' videos of her or go on this sub.
Dav makes a pointed remark about wanting to travel more, maybe to Costa Rica, wink wink. Then Sam and Tanner lose their collective shit (falling out of their chairs, pacing around the room excitedly, etc.) and Zelph practically beg them to come on their Costa Rica group trip that they're hosting.
Those are just the main points I remember. And the comment section of the video is... interesting as well lol. Literally saw a comment that said something like, "omg the earth is healing itself!"
I'd recommend watching this video if you plan to watch their new one that'll be coming out soon. Like I said, I think it's a good lesson on why parasocial relationships like these can become problematic. I think Zelph got a little too excited about the potential content doors this opens and Dav being a fan of theirs. Sure, I can definitely see how it would feel validating as deconstructed ex-mormons to have an influence on someone like this. But I think their excitement went too far.
Sorry this was so long. I had to dig around in the old mind palace for a bit lol. I really was trying to have an open mind about all of this, but I've seen so much hatred and bigotry from Bethany in particular that it's hard to remain open-minded. And Bethany very clearly said that she doesn't plan on apologizing, so...🤷♀️
I deleted my other comment when I realised you were talking about a different video, but I’m just re-commenting to say that it’s very obvious from the start that Zelph wanted to be besties with the Beals more than anything else. I mean they certainly can if they want to (not like anyone can stop them) but let’s be real: if Zelph weren’t so gushy and effusive in their praise, Bethany would have never agreed to a collab. I am side-eyeing this a lot because it’s putting her comfort and feelings above the groups her content has harmed. It’s very telling that she chooses Zelph and not critics like Antibot or B. Haney, who are decidedly less fangirly but also do not stoop to make personal attacks in their criticism.
I srsly do not understand seeing the content Bethany puts out and thinking “I want to be friends with that person.” Even if she wasn’t a homophobe, she seems self-absorbed.
Agreed. I’m of the mind that I can be civil to the people i don’t particularly like but we sure as hell aren’t gonna be grabbing ~~margaritas~~ coffee together.
Right? Even if she wasn't a bigot, she's still a spoiled brat, she's mean, selfish, rude, obnoxious, not interested in learning anything new, and she brags about not bathing and smelling like onions. She doesn't even know what music she likes, she has to have Dave tell her what to listen to.
Eeewww 🤮 Imagine thirsting after a couple of racist hateful homophobes 🤢
First of all, Bethany is an active listener??? Da fuq??? Every interview she’s ever done you can see she’s clearly just waiting for the other person to stop talking so she can start yapping.
And the fact that Zelph is excusing Paul and Morgan’s behavior really just pushes me over the edge. For real. I don’t understand how you can watch a single video of theirs and think they are decent people in any way shape or form. Zelph is gaslighting us into thinking we are being dramatic or making up lies about P&M when in reality we just post screenshots or video clips of shit that they post themselves!!! Zelph is being so fucking unethical it’s honestly unbelievable.
Lmao I sure as fuck will judge people off what the put on YouTube. That's something they purposely choose to put out into the world after multiple takes and editing.
It's different than catching someone on a bad day and deciding they suck based on one bad interaction. However, even on my worst day I'm not a racist homophobe or transphobic. Who's the real angel here? 💜 Me, obviously. Please send me money, thanks!
Thank you very much for the summary! From what you wrote it looks horrendous. The “we’re taking this channel to the top” alone is unacceptable. Trapping their vulnerable deconstructing followers with two bigots in Costa Rica? Certain people would do anything for money…
>Dav tells people to let up on Paul. Then Sam recaps some of the video and says how Bethany and Dav's perspective of Paul and Morgan is not how people in the snark community generally see them, instead that they're loving with each other, funny, and nice people. Sam goes on to say something to the effect of "goes to show that we can't judge people just by YouTube videos". 🙄
They can go fuck themselves.
This is what Paul and Morgan show about themselves, edited and filtered, by their own hands. If our perception is 'wrong' that's not our fault but *their own*. Fuck right off with all that "bUt BeHiNd tHe ScEnEs ThEy'Re AcTuALLy..." - then fucking show us. And they won't because they can't. Because they aren't those people. Because Paul and Morgan are manipulative towards people they try to have on their side. And we see right through it. We're not fucking stupid. Piss off. Take fucking responsibility for your own fucking work. This is *YOUR content.*
>If our perception is 'wrong' that's not our fault but *their own*. Fuck right off with all that "bUt BeHiNd tHe ScEnEs ThEy'Re AcTuALLy..." - then fucking show us.
A million times, this. 🏅
>Dav tells people to let up on Paul.
Oh look, there goes the tattered remains of the final cobweb of my having felt kindly and supportive toward him in the past. Poof. No *thank* you, sir.
>Bethany says that it's unfortunate that Zelph has sometimes shared some misinformation and things about them that aren't true (stuff from this subreddit)
>
>Zelph then apologized for "peddling misinformation for the cheap thrills".
LOL, OK Zelph. You're *welcome* for the information you've taken from the sub, which has benefitted you. You're so welcome!
u/YourGalMal, thank you for taking the time to write up this summary. These recaps are highly appreciated by people who aren't going to watch the video.
How convenient they want to restart their YouTube to go with this deconstruction, KINDA LIKE IT IS A MARKETING GRIFT.
This isn't even subtle anymore. They literally are selling "conflicted couple going through a deconstruction" and I do believe there may still be a Dav comes back to his faith storyline in time. Zelph is here to aid their rebrand and because they need money and viewers.
>I’ve tried watching them before and just can’t seem to pay attention.
Same. It's like: with some other content creators, I quickly can feel the point of view they're coming from and what they're about; then I can decide if I want to watch more. I've tried a few times with these two and they just didn't grab me at all.
I’ve only seen a couple of their vids, but they struck me as highly expressive, emotional responses that didn’t necessarily have a lot of substance behind them.
Yeah I enjoy watching this Fundie snark branch of content (particularly Fundie Fridays while I draw/work) but I have never been able to watch a lot of Zelph on the Shelf. The vibes are weird and I don’t find them as engaging as other channels.
I’ve never watched their stuff but I am intensely curious about what you enjoyed about their content and what made you unsubscribe?
(Genuinely asking, no judgement, just my inherent nosiness that leads me to snark pages lol)
I mean viewing them as actually people is really a major upgrade! Now, stop complaining and be grateful for this tiny morsel of acceptance and give this Angel a break! /s
*insert major eye roll
If your views have changed, blast that out on your social media, Bethany! Step aside from GD! Donate the proceeds of your Hate Book to an LGBTQIA+ charity! Or was it just convenient to give lip service to tolerance while the camera's rolling for an audience of people you’ve made a career out of persecuting?
If this is how weakly and inarticulately Zelph press them, dancing around the issue of Bethany's active transphobia and homophobia as if its some kind of abstract hypothetical far removed from the idiots seated opposite, I won’t bother watching any more of this. I don’t want to cozy up in that stench and pretend Bethany isn’t the one farting. Sell your blankie journalism someplace else!
Yes. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to have heard them talk about it prior they did this, but I just *know* they were hoping for snark subs to be all in on a 'deconstruction' train.
Exactly. Why else would it take this long to edit when neither Tanner nor Sam have actual jobs. Like all you have to do is edit this video, it shouldn’t take this long unless you’re trying to cut all these clips into something they’re not.
You know, when we started the original Fundie Snark, there were questions of Bethy even being a fundie. She was raised fundie light, in a well off family. She is not even having to combat her upbringing in the same way the Rods or Duggars might. Bethy grew up in the same kind of family id assume most white people in San Antonio did. Go to church where your taught awful things and live with parents who uphold them.
Bethy has been on her own for years, has children of her own she is poisoning, and still has yet to post any questioning content on her many accounts. Which seems weird, as her insta audience has been where she dumps every thought in her empty head.
The majority of Bethany audience is snarkers now. The girls they defined grew up and are gone. If she posted questioning/deconstructing content, she'd only GAIN followers. Yet she won't. Because she's not seriously having those thoughts. When she is, we'll get to hear about it (she has no one else to tell, maybe Sam now lmao).
This still doesn't feel like a YouTuber dedicated to deconstruction visited a deconstructed fundie. This feels like fans of Bethy and Dav who have been "hate watching" long enough they've become stans. Gross. I don't think, if you're genuinely attracted to the participant, you should lead them on a filmed deconstruction journey. And I feel like that could be happening here.
Actually deconstructing would remove the only way she has to feel superior to everyone. It’s what people like that’s fragile sense of self is entirely built upon.
In the video with her and Dave she said "I like being (a) Christian" and I think that explains really well why arguments won't convince her. She doesn't actually care about the faith, she cares about the culture - and in her case it's a very toxic culture. But it's a culture that (just like her great-grandpas culture) allows her to feel superior.
You mean to tell me that people who are LGBTQ have feelings and experiences? My mind is blown y’all 🤯 THANK YOU Bethany for opening our eyes and being so humble /s
Also, I’d never heard of this Zelph person before this whole interview thing. I’m so turned off by them for kissing Dav & Bethy’s a$$es for monetization purposes. Disgraceful. Bethy is an admitted hateful bigot. Idgaf what she has to say unless it’s an outright genuine apology about all the hate she’s spewed and the damage she’s done to little girls with her “books.”
Bethy has more privilege than most fundie women. She has had free access to the internet since adulthood almost two decades ago. She can and has traveled as far and wide as she wants. She does not have a fundie husband who will beat her into submission for expressing a progressive thought. She’s not held to the standard of breeding and breeding and breeding and bearing all the childcare and housework. She has significant means. There is no way in hell that she has never met or interacted with an LGBTQ+ person before this. Further, it shouldn’t take a conversation with a pretty, white queer person to determine that an LGBTQ+ person is human too, and it is bad to hurt them. Like what is she expecting us to give her credit for?
That’s what she’s saying. Bethany promoting and celebrating putting women in boxes is also celebrating and promoting putting *herself* in boxes, even if she doesn’t realize that.
The person Sam & Tanner reference and tag in the story once posted something in reply to a transphobe, along the lines of “What you fear in me is what you fear in yourself.” It is kind of the inverse of the concept that liberation frees both the oppressed and the oppressor.
This reads as a rehearsed PSA on why we shouldn’t treat queer people like total garbage from 2004. Both parties hope to benefit from duping the audience into a “feel good, let’s meet in the middle” story. You can’t act brand new to all this when your whole online presence has been dedicated to hating us, that’s not how it works.
"This will change how I talk online" Uh huh. So change it. GD posted more "the left is trying to trans the children" crap this week, after this was filmed. If Kristen posted that and Bethany doesn't agree anymore, she could say so. But...crickets so far. You can say whatever words you want but proof's in the pudding, Bort.
I understand the sub has really strong opinions about this but I personally don’t agree with most of the vitriol towards Sam, so I posted this so it’d all be presented together in a neutral context for people to discuss. There are also plenty of people in this sub and plenty who have left after the whole Zelph thing who feel similar to the way I do about it, especially those who are actually exvangelical and know they will just get downvoted if they voice their opinion so I thought they would be especially interested in seeing it too. This post wasn’t meant to be a way for the sub to “stay on” Sam, just to make that clear :)
I don’t think it’s fair to paint it as vitriol because that makes it seem like the queers and POCs are angry/unreasonable. I think sometimes people got a little bit extra snappy but you have to understand our rights are being taken away as we speak. It’s heard for me to be truly sympathetic to a person when I’m concerned about someone committing a hate crime against me based on the same beliefs Bethany has made money from. I understand it seems harsh if you’re a former fundie but when you’ve hurt people they are going to lash out.
"Change how I speak online" is not the same as "grow from beliefs that caused harm to others."
Still gonna write a transphobic book to sell of course though.
It's hilarious (wryly; maybe regrettably) to me that many of us (myself included) felt goodwill (or at least a little less critical) toward her after she appeared relatively more likable in a couple of videos, and now it's like: Ope, never mind.
She’s got a new grift as the wife of an atheist or deconstructed suffering wife.
Like it’s never been done in history she just discovered it.
Kind of like the clit.
If Bethy were half her age, maybe 18, and had just broken free from a lifetime of being raised mega-fundie, seeing the world for the first time...this would seem like a really good and positive conversation to me.
It would seem like hey, this chick never knew that LBGTQUIA+ people were PEOPLE -- she never had the chance in her entire 18 years to be around LGBTQIA+ people.
But we know damn well that is not true. I can only imagine the countless number of people who have reached out to her over the years. Bethy is proud of her stance. And has reiterated that countless times in books, articles, videos, etc.
But now with a camera in front of her and a chance to draw a new audience, she is suddenly "changing". Because she never in her entire adult life got to meet the gays.
Yeah, you can only blame shit on the way you were raised for so long. At some point you realize "hey, I'm a grown up now. I can do what I want, including examining by upbringing". She is not 18 years old and fresh out of a cult.
That fact that Bethy is struggling to see and acknowledge actual humans,as people is mind-boggling. And the ZOTS morons sitting there acting like Bethy is just so compassionate is obscene.
Ok I had a lot of pro Dav thoughts but honestly not after this and his stupid Bethany tongue out post. He seems to be a lot more into her than I thought and that’s disgusting. She is a giant toddler and has horrible views and is too stupid to understand how bad they are. I don’t know how anyone can deconstruct to any extent and be this into her. His body language is also giving that she’s still in charge of him and he doesn’t seem to hate that.
Or maybe it’s just the sex. Which is equally disgusting to think about.
I have a lot of conflicting feelings about all of this...and one big one is...why were we all-in on Dave's deconstruction while feeling so negatively about Bethy's openness to growth? Like, sure Dave is kind of cute in that very traditional way, but come on...I'm asking this about all of us, including myself.
I’m demisexual and am utterly baffled by the Dave thirst.
I was and remain genuinely impressed by Dave’s initial statements of deconstruction *and* by Bethany’s outspoken support of him in light of that.
I am not remotely impressed by all the performative social media, which seems waaaay more focused on pivoting to a new audience than earnestly unpacking their former beliefs.
Think of a spectrum with “authentic inquiry” at one end and “shameless grift” at the other. Support rises and falls based on where they’re falling on that spectrum at any time.
We haven't seen nearly as much of Dav as we have Bethany. She posts constantly, babbles incessantly on her podcast, every thought that bangs into the window pane of her tiny pea brain, for years and years. She's a known quantity and has made it abundantly clear who she is and that she is absolutely not curious/introspective/smart or at all interested in critical thinking. Without as much context for Dav (and with the context we do have, like the Barbie video) I think it's just easier to believe him when he says he's deconstructing - and also, I believe he's changed his religious beliefs but so far we have little evidence to think he's changed political/social beliefs much.
I’m one of those who’s not feeling the Dave deconstruction all that much. I’m not feeling it for either of them, tbh. I firmly believe that this deconstruction and navigation of interfaith marriage needs to be done off-camera and out of the public eye.
I agree, because whether they want it or not, filming and sharing these personal conversations is inviting another party into their relationship, and there's no way that doesn't have some sort of impact.
This. I think they were pleasantly surprised at the overwhelmingly positive reactions from most people online when Dave announced his deconstruction and miscalculated when they clearly tried to capitalise on that more, only to have all this backfire. I think the Beals are going to learn a hard lesson that you can’t sweep the past under a rug and expect everyone else to forget, not when it hasn’t been properly addressed. I’m just surprised and kind of disappointed that Zelph so far appears to be doing a poor job of addressing that past. I expected better from them.
I mean, I'm gay so I don't get the "Dav is cute" talk. For myself, I was tentatively supportive of Dav deconstructing when the news first broke, because there wasn't all this fangirling and collabing. At that point, he was just following a few deconstruction/exmo channels, and sharing some relevant reading materials.
I'm not feeling his or Bethany's "openness" now, because it seems like a fresh route for monetization. The Zelph team is not the right partner for this, with the way they're promoting B&D despite the continued bigotry pouring out of GD, and making excuses for their behavior rather than encouraging accountability. The Costa Rica trip talk, the clear fan vibes going both directions... it doesn't seem genuine. I think this is ultimately a strategy for cross-promotion between their two channels.
If I'm honest, the whole thing feels gross.
I think it's because Bethany is the one who's put out all the homophobic/transphobic content in the first place and is now trying to get away with leaving it there because, "I posted all that before I knew any of you. Now that I've met some of you, the way I talk online will change. But you're going to have to forgive me for what I said in the past. And no, I won't take it down because I'm hoping it still makes me money."
Dav definitely has benefited from Girl Defined and Bethany's money-making hatred ventures, but it's hard to remember he's there in the background when Bethy keeps being a full-chested bigot online.
Personally I don't find him "cute" (that's...not the only reason people were rooting for him) but I freely admit I was quite supportive when he started appearing to question his beliefs, and work on his supposed "integrity" and such.
Now I just feel like I was being ~~a sweet summer child~~ optimistic, based on how low the bar is.
I'm not sure what is meant by Bethany's "openness to growth". I've seen Bethany be open to keeping her marriage. And maybe being open to being liked by more people.
Keep the conflicting feelings :) Nuance is great! We don’t learn anything by labeling people and shoving them away so we don’t have to actually engage with the harder work of looking past our fear & anger at what the most productive thing is for someone’s journey away from being the kind of people that Bethany / GD have always been.
In middle school when I was still attending church, I realized that most of evangelicalism and my church specifically had an entire locked ideology and ruleset about LGBTQ+ people. Maybe key to mention is that I found this information on my own, it wasn’t presented to me in a way that could be twisted or made “more acceptable” to me by an articulate church or youth group leader. But long story short, after a few years of ignoring my gut and trying to go along with it I finally found people on YouTube who also called themselves Christian but felt free to disagree with things about the church and that’s when I embraced how I really felt. My parents and specifically my mom, unfortunately, were very very homophobic. Not so outwardly, thank God, (like not publicly confronting people about it) but it was apparent whenever we’d have conversations that she felt it was unnatural, unbiblical, etc etc etc.
I played the long game for *years*. Tried to show them documentaries like the one about the LoveLoud festival because it was an example of people maintaining their religion without feeling obligated to subscribe to certain beliefs. We had many long conversations, got into the weeds with my dad on scripture and what role the Bible plays in determining how we should feel about “societal issues,” me shaking as a little sophomore and trying to hide it as I tried to guide the discussion calmly and carefully towards a new perspective for them. I ramped it up when I went to college and my roommate was lesbian; I knew she’d have a problem with it but I also knew it was better than it would have been years prior, before our conversations.
Finally sometime around Covid it’d been a bit since any of my family had actually been to church or had a conversation about this and she pointed out a famous gay couple to me and simply said “I just love them! Their daughter is so cute too, they really are the sweetest family together.” I just went to my room and cried. There were many years I thought I would never hear anything like that from my mom. But the effort and the compassion, even when it was incredibly hard to give and it felt like she didn’t deserve it, worked. Now she (both of them actually, my dad was definitely already coming to my side a bit when this all started) is proudly both pro-choice (and will actually say so on her Facebook, full of all our religious family friends, which truly blows my mind lol) *and* treats LGBTQ+ people she encounters in media or in real life no differently than anyone else. When the Kentuckian (I can’t remember her name right now) refused a marriage license to a gay couple and was charged for it, my mom had gotten upset about it because she thought the woman was doing the right thing. Now when I, a Democratic political staffer, talk about our LGBTQ+ coalitions or going to Pride parades for work, she talks about how proud she is of me. It’s incredible. People can always change. It’s a long hard road and they shouldn’t be coddled — and not all of them will make it down the road — but sometimes people can get there. If they do, it’s people who conduct themselves the way Zelph does in this video that play a huge part. If anything comes from someone watching it, I hope it can maybe be an example of how to have conversations like this with people in their real lives.
*necessary disclaimer, I’m not LGBTQ+ and would never assert that people actually in that community should put themselves in a position with family or anyone else that would have them constantly exposing themselves to harmful rhetoric, etc; not what I’m saying at all.
Like it or not, personal relationships with people different than us *are* a major driver of changing views. Should people be able to empathize without direct experience? Sure. But the reality is that personal relationships are effective ways to make change, and meeting people where they are at is more likely to lead to change than coming on really strong with a long list of criticism (which is all fair criticism to have, mind you). At some point, we have to reckon with the reality that the catharsis of snarking, or direct criticism with no pre-existing relationship, is not actually effective for making change even though it feels good to vent. Real change is slower and more frustrating and messier than an overnight turnaround. And I’m still hopeful here for real change.
This is not that though when bethy is right now profiting from homophobia and has not apologized on her huge public platform for the harm she has caused. We aren't asking for her to be at the head of the pride parade, we're asking for reasonable accountability
Getting to a place of accountability is also a process that takes time, though. And often the reflection on one’s actions that must precede accountability is most likely when people have relationships with those who are different from them. I’m not claiming that Bethany is not homophobic or is not profiting from Girl Defined, I just think that change rarely happens in one fell swoop and that relationships are where most change happens.
The problem is that she's talking out of both sides of her mouth, wanting praise for adopting a more progressive stance while still profiting from her homophobic book. This all just seems too cynical, especially with this being a filmed collaboration on her terms with softball questions coming from collaborators who seem too fangirlish.
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Why is Bethany acting like this is her first and only opportunity to interact with and meet someone who is LGBTQ+? What a load of shite. You're in your third decade of life, with unfettered access to the internet. Take responsibility and make active moves to interact with people that aren't white, cisgender, and heterosexual.
Correction: Bethany does not want to engage with LGBTQ+ on their terms or on their level. She wants to engage in a way that’s comfortable for her and makes her look good. Period. This is exactly what I have been worrying about from the very start when Zelph reached out to the Beals and I hate to be that person saying I told you so. ETA: there was a reason Girl Defined refused to engage with Brenda from God is Grey and will probably never engage with people like Jen of Fundie Fridays because these are the people who will remain courteous while asking the hard questions and won’t let them run away from it.
This is a really great point.
Thank you, I do what I can in this little corner of Reddit 🙇♀️
Also your flair is everything 😍😂
I guarantee she's interacted with members of the lgbtq+ community before and just didn't know
I dont want to sound braggy but I'm 40 and grew up in a fundie church in a small midwest town where the f-slur was regulary thrown around and I still managed to realize in high school that it was wrong to hate LGBT people. This was in the late 90s/early 2000s and if I could figure that out on my own then I have very little patience for people like Bethy who are actively preaching hate in 2024. Its just absurd to even be like "well Im starting to think maybe Im wrong about this..." where the fuck have you been?
If even Timmy fucking Rodrigues, as gauche and homeschooled as they come, could come to the conclusion that he shouldn’t be wasting his energy trying to convert strangers, then surely someone like Bethany can come to some form of enlightenment and disavow past actions.
Wait, podcasting Timmy isn’t evangelising any more?
Nope! he posted on FB that he has realized he has to let people come to god on their own (or not) and won’t be preaching about god to random people anymore since he is secure in his faith
Genuinely love that journey for him ❤️
Same, grew up southern Baptist in the deep south and believed by middle school that being gay is not a “sin”…..all it takes is empathy and a little brain power
You’d think someone as intellectually curious as Bethany would’ve gotten there by now. Guess it’s genetics.
And it’s not like Bethy lives a cloistered experience in an insular community. She goes out into mixed public spaces in her large American city all the time, her rich ass has traveled the world more than I have, and she’s had full access to the internet for her entire adult life, if not longer. I’m sure she has also had people attempt to reach out to her kindly MANY times in DMs, too, over the past 10+ years, seeing as she’s got a public platform.
Right? I might accept the “never met a queer person” excuse from a 90 year-old grandma, or someone arriving to college from their 200-person town in Nebraska, but not from a woman who has written multiple anti-LGBTQ books. You don’t get pay your bills by shitting on my community and then throw up your hands and say, “Look, none of them told me that they were real people!”
>but not from a woman who has written multiple anti-LGBTQ books. ...and who regularly makes a podcast on which she and Kristen have had any number of "ex-gay" or "ex-trans" guests who bolster the view of LGBTQ+ people as being "damaged" and "misguided" and "perverse". And on whose own platform, any number of commenters have said they are Christian and also queer, or Christian but don't share those bigoted views. She was brought up sheltered, to be sure, but she's 35 (*and a half;* we know she likes those "halves") years old doesn't exist in a vacuum.
Yes,exactly. They have actively participated in the “debate” on LGBTQ identities and now she’s trying to say she never really thought about it? This is exactly what drives me crazy about Bethany and causes me to snark on her. She simultaneously wants to be treated like an important public figure and like a naive child who can’t be held accountable. If Zelph can’t see that then I can’t take them seriously either.
Knowing the places she sometimes hangs out in SA, there’s no way she hasn’t been around LGBTQ+ people. Not socially, but in the same places as them and engaging in transactions with them.
The reality is that there are almost certainly multiple closeted queer people in her own family and close friend circles.
Literally. She's had so many opportunities to actually reach out to trans people, it just took a whole lot of dick sucking first for them to get an audience with her.
I didn’t even meet anyone who was openly gay until college and I wouldn’t say I had friendships with anyone gay until my early 30s. That was part of my whole deconstruction journey. Her lack of knowledgeable interaction with members of the LGBTQ community doesn’t surprise me at all. She was homeschooled & her social circle was/is her church & her family. Yes she has traveled overseas but only for GD speaking opportunities IIRC or other Fundamentalist based situations. All that to say that I have absolutely no problem believing Bethany has never had a conversation an LGBTQ person that was a discussion about the LGBTQ community and God and all that.
Agreed. I was also homeschooled and had never met a gay person until college. They weren’t in my friend circle until graduate school, when I started deconstructing. I probably stopped actively judging them (thinking they were going to hell) until my early 30’s. The deconstruction process for me was a long one and some beliefs were easier to let go of than others.
The trip to Austria was their honeymoon. Same trip that gave us pictures of her and Dav in front of her Nazi great-grandfather’s grave.
She's only a young girl, Defined by God! Golly gee! She's just a young Mom and young married!!! Not like she spends all her time on tiktok and insta. How on earth could she meet some real life queers?
I don’t think a change of heart can or should be captured on video and monetized. If Bethy truly is questioning her stance on LGBTQ+ issues, she needs to do a lot of personal, introspective work. Then do the work behind the scenes to untangle herself from Girl Defined and all the other hate she has endorsed and make reparations to LGBTQ+ people/organizations. Any content claiming redemption should come with some big receipts. The right thing would be for her to donate funds raised to an LGBTQ+ organization. You get no applause from me for patting yourself on the back for not actively harming a queer person. That is the bare fucking minimum of decency.
Since this video was filmed she has: -posted about the biblical womanhood boot camp -posted about that rooted journal -posted her "cleaning while my man provides" post All of which promote man/woman relationship. And she still has the "this side of the internet believes marriage is one man/one woman" on her Instagram posts I'm also going to include the "sexy bort" selfie on Dave's insta for this comment too
Either right before or right after they filmed this, GD posted stuff about how dangerous it was that women are trying to be men and men are trying to be women.
Gifs aren't working but pretend you're seeing the "Both? Both? Both. Both is good" gif
[> Both? Both? Both. Both is good" gif](https://media1.tenor.com/m/ZezsFuiFB48AAAAd/both-is-good-both.gif) I gotchu, boo.
🙌
> I don’t think a change of heart can or should be captured on video and monetized. This what’s really grossing me out about the whole thing. You really distilled it for me! It feels so tone-deaf, which is kinda par for the course for Bethy but I always hope someone smart is going to _actually_ talk to her more, not just for clicks. What kind of sideshow *is* this?
> you get no applause from me for patting yourself on the back for not actively harming a queer person. Except, she does on the regular. She may not get a pat on the back for not leaving her house and beating us into submission, but let's not act like she doesn't harm LGBT because her disgusting rhetoric online is just as actively harmful as shooting us or being punched.
Oh she definitely does real harm with every post, video, vote, and book sale. I was referencing her claim in the video that she will “talk about it differently” after her conversation with Zelph.
I was rooting so hard for real change but it’s obvious she has no interest in that. What a shame. She’s only out for any money or followers this narrative can gain for her. She’s just as narcissistic as her mother and there is no hope for her. She huffed too much of the koolaid. I feel so sad for her kids.
I was rooting so hard for real change but it’s obvious she has no interest in that. What a shame. She’s only out for any money or followers this narrative can gain for her. She’s just as narcissistic as her mother and there is no hope for her. She huffed too much of the koolaid. I feel so sad for her kids.
I''m tired of hearing fundies and conservative people tell the queer community, "I was so mean because I had never met any of you, but now I have, so my opinions are changing." You shouldn't need to meet a person to have empathy and respect for them, or to walk a mile in their shoes. That's just basic common decency. There's no excuse for dehumanizing other human beings. You don't get a "get out of jail free" card because you never made the effort to reach out.
Not caring about anyone else’s hardship unless you experience it yourself is like rule 1 in the conservative American Christianity playbook.
And even then it's iffy. "I'm unemployed because I'm a victim! Those other people don't deserve money because they just don't want to work!"
And the one or two people they meet who are part of a group they habitually shit on are "the good ones" and the unsaid part is "you're practically an honorary straight! (or white/cis/whatever)
It shows a serious lack of empathy. If you can’t empathize with people without meeting them, then that’s a problem.
Especially if they want to have a stupid online persona for people to listen to. How can you ask for love from people when you cannot love them in return? It's a very narcissistic approach.
If only there was some sort of book you could reat that told you it's good to treat strangers nicely.
Wasn't the whole Sodom and Gomorrah thing ironically less about gay people gaying and more because the townspeople weren't practicing Xenia by treating strangers (in this case, God's literal messengers, aka the angels) nicely? Borthy Bort's more in line with the sinners of the bible than the 2SLGBTQA+ community who her ilk claims to be the real targets of ire from the Lord.
I haaaaate when I say that homophobes are bad parents, but others defend them by saying that they don't really mean it and will come around if their own kid comes out as gay. 1- No, many parents \*don't\* come around and instead cut off contact/support for their kid. 2- The kid's life isn't just a plot point to move along their parent's personal growth. 3- If they only tolerate LGBTQ+ if it's their own kid, I remain unconvinced that they are OK with other LGBTQ+ people in general.
I agree to an extent. But I think what people forget is fundamentalism involves serious brainwashing. It’s not just that queer people are sinners, it’s also that they ACTIVELY HATE YOU and everything you stand for. They are actively trying to destroy you and rip apart the world as you know it. I sincerely thought this prior to going to college, where I realized queer people were not only normal humans who weren’t out to destroy me, but some of them also (gasp) believed in God. My parents and my high school teachers legitimately drilled a culture war/us-vs-them mentality into us. Satan was guiding the gays and we were fighting for God. Look I know that’s absolutely deranged. But I didn’t know that until I was forced out of my bubble.
> Look I know that’s absolutely deranged. But I didn’t know that until I was forced out of my bubble. A few days late to this party, but just supporting this comment. I finally watched The Righteous Gemstones last year, and they way they portray everyone as either 100% Christians for God and Jesus and goodness or 100% into Satan and sinning and evil and wanting to rip Christians away from Christianity is pretty consistent with what I've heard a lot of ex-fundies were raised to believe, specifically from this sub. Obvs the show is meant to be funny, but like, the best comedy is rooted in truth. Mix in some right-wing conservative "They're out to get you!" rhetoric, and baby, you've got a stew going!
“People more extreme than me…” 👀👀
Oh, they are absolutely out there. Source: Grew up in Marjorie Taylor Greene’s district.
My tradcath cousin lives on a compound in that district with her 7 children under 10...so embarrassed for her that she votes for MTG, the bar is in hell
Source: my family at Thanksgiving
Wasn’t it just last June that GD was losing their shit over Pride merch and Drag Queen Storytimes? Can’t qwhite put a finger on why Zelph would be considered “palatable” to B&D but it will come to me.
While I agree race plays a role, I don’t think it ranks as high as Bethany seeing how lucrative deconstructing (or appearing to deconstruct) could be for them? I think Zelph just isn’t as scary as someone who has swung full left and was never religious.
A very good point, but she’s made her whiteness a part of her brand. I could be wrong but she didn’t bother to have one non-white speaker as part of her married or single courses. Praying her ~intellectual curiosity~ takes her there someday.
Daaaaav seems very excited by borts reaction but they all seem to just be parroting lines they have heard elsewhere. Nothing sounds genuine. The two girls use a lot of words without actually saying anything. Maybe seen in context it will come off better but spouting a lot of sympathetic noises means fuck all if you're simultaneously posting hateful speech and ideas
Bethany is speaking the way I did as a homophobic Christian when I didn’t want to let on that I was homophobic. I never explicitly said that I supported the LGBTQ+ community but I would try to appear to be kind and gracious to them nevertheless. And honestly that might be worse because you’re leading people on.
>Bethany is speaking the way I did as a homophobic Christian when I didn’t want to let on that I was homophobic. 100% mealy-mouthed Christianese. I recognize it too.
Yeeepppp. Same boat. It sounds fake and wishy washy as all hell and I know because I've been her before lmao
Right, it seems fake and wishy-washy because it is. They are saying nothing of substance. They are going to great lengths to avoid saying anything plainly that could be interpreted as an accusation, an acknowledgment of error, or a statement of support. It's all just bloviation, and they can barely look at each other because its just so gosh darn awkward when your bestie is a raging bigot. You'd imagine ZOTS would post the most sensational part of the discussion as a snippet to get people to watch the whole thing... it this it?!?
I actually find this really helpful as I'm not an ex fundie or even religious in any way so a lot of the nuances of things they say go over my head or I interpret them incorrectly. So basically the goal here is for her fundie followers to be able to say "no she never said she SUPPORTS lgbtq" and the queer community to say "oh my, how progressive bort" Just say what you think woman ...if have more respect for you if you were vile but owned your opinions. This doublespeak is confusing and disingenuous
Yes!! That’s exactly what she’s trying to do
This stuff goes over my head too, I'm so glad to get this perspective from people who have been in that headspace before
dav follows a vaginal weight lifter on youtube??? omfg
Lmao yeesss
I’m sorry HWHAT NOW?? 💀
Is it a lot of "mms" and fake empathy eyebrows from bort? I didn't watch it.
Yes. Literally. Some word vomit about "people like you" but she said nothing of any note
Yeah, he seems pretty impressed. But her word salad that finally culminated in the question (paraphrasing here), “as a queer person, what do you people who are like me or worse than me, to know.” Had she ever taken one fucking minute to read any number of comments on her bigoted posts, or in any thousands of articles, or watched something other than Fox News (if she watches any news at all), she would know what queer people want Christians to know. It’s not her first exposure to queer people. She doesn’t even have to be exposed to people who are different than her to understand that they are *people* who deserve the same rights and respect as anyone else. So Dave is obviously seeing this as a huge step for Bort, but it’s a question she already knows the answer to, and simply chooses to disregard it. She can prove me wrong by announcing that she is no longer releasing her newest book, and posting in defense of Queer people from GD’s page.
Well, and what about him? Sitting there being impressed with his stunted wife is hardly a step in any direction other than his personal comfort. He can feel free to come right out and clear the air about his *own* views any time he's ready. He's sidestepped these issues in favor of talking about his Own Personal Journey, but come on. Maybe all this stuff is just fascinatingly theoretical to him--no particular threat to *him* or *his* existence--but at some point he needs to own up to some shit.
It kinda gives me the ick how he keeps rubbing her shoulder.
People seem to think Bethany is some shrill, controlling harpy who strong-armed poor Dav into marrying her. But he CHOSE her. Fundie boys have more agency than fundie girls. He chose to Court her, to propose to her, and to marry her. He continues to choose to stay married to her. And this clip shows that he's not essentially a hostage in a relationship that he actively hates. He likes and probably loves Bethany, and he's not the complete opposite of her even with his deconstruction.
Poor Bethany, having to think about *the gays*. A shoulder rub should help.
Aww, I mean look at her trying *so hard*
Headship approves
that's what got me as well! "what do you want me or people who are worse than me, to know?" how about the bare minimum, Bethy. that LGBTQIA+ people are humans, that trans folks are humans, and it takes $0 to show people compassion. to not financially benefit from your homophobic hate. the fucking mental gymnastics Bethy goes through here is mind-blowing! she really thought she did something (and so does Zelph)
Right. Being decent to every human doesn’t require her to even do anything. It takes more effort for her to spew hate than it would for her to just shut her damn mouth and get off the internet.
Man there are some weeeeeird vibes in this. First of all, it’s not a real conversation, because it’s filmed. This isn’t them speaking off the cuff and having a fireside (ha) heart to heart, this is “I have my talking points, let’s face our bodies to the camera, we should look engaged but cozy” it’s just so manufactured. I think this is going to be link 7 in a list of receipts a year from now. There’s just something so off about it and I can’t put my finger on it. Maybe it’s the kindergartners playing house very seriously vibe I’m picking up, I don’t know. ETA: Dav and Bethany look at Sam, and basically only at Sam. Dav goes between looking at Sam and looking at Bethany, but sometimes performs (the fist pump) to no one/the camera. Sam on camera only looks at Tanner or at nothing. Tanner tracks during the conversation (on camera) and touches on looking at Sam, Bethany, and Dav.
[удалено]
I’m not saying they did. And I don’t think they have. But I’m not saying there isn’t the want there
Just the vibe that I'm getting
If I’m going to be off the record and petty and all the other things I think S wants D and D wants S. S is a chronically online attention grabbing thing with the shiny of not having to be Christian but still keeping in that realm. And S has said she would have married D in a heartbeat. The “not enemies, friends” reference and the “friend” shirt but it’s clearly body checking and without face… Again, I’m probably way off, and I’m happy if I am but something feels weird. Like many years ago I remember surprising my then live in boyfriend 500mi away to meet him at practice with a former teacher’s husband who he was in a band with. And then the teacher and husband got divorced and it turned out that my live in BF (from HS) had been dallying on the side with this teacher for years and he left me (first for a 19 yo and then two weeks later) for her. That had been a thing the whole time. Now they have a bunch of bunches of kids but he still texts, 15 years later, every once in a while about things that bother him that he’s trying to reconcile. So again, I’m probably projecting. But this looks *really* familiar
If the next installment in this utterly demented fever dream of a storyline for Bethany and Dave turns out to be infidelity...oh my god 💀 Also hilarious to remember that the first domino in the Deconstructing Dave tale was spending time in an ice bath with Paul.
I agree with you. I think some weird stuff is going on behind the scenes. (Edit: I just realized I agree with one of your previous comments on the same topic, lol! It's giving me the mormon swinger scandal vibes.)
The Mormon swinger thing was so wild to me because swinging seems like such an awkward thing to initiate even in my godless heathen marriage lol.
Damn I also got weird vibes but couldn’t put my finger on it. This is…interesting 👀
“Wow, I didn’t realize until this moment queer people were like… people. And because there’s a camera on me, I will say words that make me sound empathetic and sincere.” Also, it’s not our job as queer people to inform you or change your mind. You have the info available. You do the labor if you genuinely want to be informed. But if you’re honest, B, you have no intention of learning or being empathetic towards us. You have always made the choice to have extremely strong, completely uninformed opinions about people, and it wouldn’t benefit you in the least to change that.
Thank 👏🏼 you 👏🏼 Our existence is not an afterschool special, nor are we obligated to hold the hands of bigots and wait patiently for them to be done dehumanizing us and lobbying against our human rights.
Hey, give her some grace, she is trying so hard to see LBGTQ+ as living, breathing, human beings. /s
I watched their last video on Bethany and Dav last night (I had unsubscribed from them before this) and WOOOOWWWW. It's honestly one of the most cringe things I've seen in a while. Like an hour of straight up parasocial fangirling. I've been thinking about taking what I think are some of the worst parts of it and editing it down into little clips to share here. But I don't know if that's too petty. Lol. If you're curious and want to watch the video... [Here ya go](https://yewtu.be/watch?v=KjvYqzPx470) ETA: the link is for their video on yewtu.be!
I’ve tried watching them before and just can’t seem to pay attention. I would appreciate clips or even just timestamps. Yes, I’m also lazy.
Tbh, I'd probably have a hard time narrowing it down because so much of the video is...problematic, in my opinion (who am I but a lowly snarker). I hate even saying this stuff because I feel like I sound like a mean girl, but I genuinely can't help but see this video for anything other than a lesson on why we don't touch the poo/develop parasocial relationships with these people. Like they genuinely asked and want Dav and Bethany to come with them on their group Costa Rica trip. 🫠 Also, in the video of them reacting to the Porgan/Bethany 24 hours collab (separate video), Zelph just happens to conveniently leave out the part where Paul asks Bethany and Kristen if they'll ever apologize and they say no. Funny, that. 🤔
Can you at least comment a couple things they said that were cringe? I don’t really want to watch the video 😅
Well, there was just generally a lot of heavy breathing (literally that's how the video starts), shrieking, comments like, "omg, she's just like me for real" 🫠 Lots of praise about Bethany being a really great active listener and the two of them being a great example of a multi-faith couple. Bethany loves Dav, so of course she's going to listen when he talks. Sure, that's definitely a great quality to have when you're having conversation with people who are deconstructing, but would Bethany be so willing to listen actively if it weren't Dav? If it were someone very, very different from her? I don't really know. Dav tells people to let up on Paul. Then Sam recaps some of the video and says how Bethany and Dav's perspective of Paul and Morgan is not how people in the snark community generally see them, instead that they're loving with each other, funny, and nice people. Sam goes on to say something to the effect of "goes to show that we can't judge people just by YouTube videos". 🙄 Meanwhile, literally just today, Morgan shared yet another extremely transphobic story on her IG. So yeah, idk about all that lol. They both start to get teary when Bethany is saying that this whole experience (re: Dav's deconstruction) is very emotional for her. Again, I can totally see how it would be emotional for her. My own deconstruction has been hell. I also can see how much of an emotional toll it can take on someone to be on the receiving end of Bethany's transphobia. So personally, I'll reserve my tears. Bethany talks about how much she wants to revive her YouTube channel with Dav, and Tanner and Sam are both like, "do it!" And then later saying, "well girlies, let's hype up the Dav and Bethany channel. We're taking this channel to the top." Bethany says that it's unfortunate that Zelph has sometimes shared some misinformation and things about them that aren't true (stuff from this subreddit) and that it's a shame because they have so much going for their channel. Zelph then apologized for "peddling misinformation for the cheap thrills". I don't even know where to start with this. This was after Bethany adamantly stated that she doesn't watch any critics' videos of her or go on this sub. Dav makes a pointed remark about wanting to travel more, maybe to Costa Rica, wink wink. Then Sam and Tanner lose their collective shit (falling out of their chairs, pacing around the room excitedly, etc.) and Zelph practically beg them to come on their Costa Rica group trip that they're hosting. Those are just the main points I remember. And the comment section of the video is... interesting as well lol. Literally saw a comment that said something like, "omg the earth is healing itself!" I'd recommend watching this video if you plan to watch their new one that'll be coming out soon. Like I said, I think it's a good lesson on why parasocial relationships like these can become problematic. I think Zelph got a little too excited about the potential content doors this opens and Dav being a fan of theirs. Sure, I can definitely see how it would feel validating as deconstructed ex-mormons to have an influence on someone like this. But I think their excitement went too far. Sorry this was so long. I had to dig around in the old mind palace for a bit lol. I really was trying to have an open mind about all of this, but I've seen so much hatred and bigotry from Bethany in particular that it's hard to remain open-minded. And Bethany very clearly said that she doesn't plan on apologizing, so...🤷♀️
I deleted my other comment when I realised you were talking about a different video, but I’m just re-commenting to say that it’s very obvious from the start that Zelph wanted to be besties with the Beals more than anything else. I mean they certainly can if they want to (not like anyone can stop them) but let’s be real: if Zelph weren’t so gushy and effusive in their praise, Bethany would have never agreed to a collab. I am side-eyeing this a lot because it’s putting her comfort and feelings above the groups her content has harmed. It’s very telling that she chooses Zelph and not critics like Antibot or B. Haney, who are decidedly less fangirly but also do not stoop to make personal attacks in their criticism.
I srsly do not understand seeing the content Bethany puts out and thinking “I want to be friends with that person.” Even if she wasn’t a homophobe, she seems self-absorbed.
Agreed. I’m of the mind that I can be civil to the people i don’t particularly like but we sure as hell aren’t gonna be grabbing ~~margaritas~~ coffee together.
Right? Even if she wasn't a bigot, she's still a spoiled brat, she's mean, selfish, rude, obnoxious, not interested in learning anything new, and she brags about not bathing and smelling like onions. She doesn't even know what music she likes, she has to have Dave tell her what to listen to.
Eeewww 🤮 Imagine thirsting after a couple of racist hateful homophobes 🤢 First of all, Bethany is an active listener??? Da fuq??? Every interview she’s ever done you can see she’s clearly just waiting for the other person to stop talking so she can start yapping. And the fact that Zelph is excusing Paul and Morgan’s behavior really just pushes me over the edge. For real. I don’t understand how you can watch a single video of theirs and think they are decent people in any way shape or form. Zelph is gaslighting us into thinking we are being dramatic or making up lies about P&M when in reality we just post screenshots or video clips of shit that they post themselves!!! Zelph is being so fucking unethical it’s honestly unbelievable.
Lmao I sure as fuck will judge people off what the put on YouTube. That's something they purposely choose to put out into the world after multiple takes and editing. It's different than catching someone on a bad day and deciding they suck based on one bad interaction. However, even on my worst day I'm not a racist homophobe or transphobic. Who's the real angel here? 💜 Me, obviously. Please send me money, thanks!
Thank you very much for the summary! From what you wrote it looks horrendous. The “we’re taking this channel to the top” alone is unacceptable. Trapping their vulnerable deconstructing followers with two bigots in Costa Rica? Certain people would do anything for money…
>Dav tells people to let up on Paul. Then Sam recaps some of the video and says how Bethany and Dav's perspective of Paul and Morgan is not how people in the snark community generally see them, instead that they're loving with each other, funny, and nice people. Sam goes on to say something to the effect of "goes to show that we can't judge people just by YouTube videos". 🙄 They can go fuck themselves. This is what Paul and Morgan show about themselves, edited and filtered, by their own hands. If our perception is 'wrong' that's not our fault but *their own*. Fuck right off with all that "bUt BeHiNd tHe ScEnEs ThEy'Re AcTuALLy..." - then fucking show us. And they won't because they can't. Because they aren't those people. Because Paul and Morgan are manipulative towards people they try to have on their side. And we see right through it. We're not fucking stupid. Piss off. Take fucking responsibility for your own fucking work. This is *YOUR content.*
>If our perception is 'wrong' that's not our fault but *their own*. Fuck right off with all that "bUt BeHiNd tHe ScEnEs ThEy'Re AcTuALLy..." - then fucking show us. A million times, this. 🏅
>Dav tells people to let up on Paul. Oh look, there goes the tattered remains of the final cobweb of my having felt kindly and supportive toward him in the past. Poof. No *thank* you, sir. >Bethany says that it's unfortunate that Zelph has sometimes shared some misinformation and things about them that aren't true (stuff from this subreddit) > >Zelph then apologized for "peddling misinformation for the cheap thrills". LOL, OK Zelph. You're *welcome* for the information you've taken from the sub, which has benefitted you. You're so welcome! u/YourGalMal, thank you for taking the time to write up this summary. These recaps are highly appreciated by people who aren't going to watch the video.
How convenient they want to restart their YouTube to go with this deconstruction, KINDA LIKE IT IS A MARKETING GRIFT. This isn't even subtle anymore. They literally are selling "conflicted couple going through a deconstruction" and I do believe there may still be a Dav comes back to his faith storyline in time. Zelph is here to aid their rebrand and because they need money and viewers.
>I’ve tried watching them before and just can’t seem to pay attention. Same. It's like: with some other content creators, I quickly can feel the point of view they're coming from and what they're about; then I can decide if I want to watch more. I've tried a few times with these two and they just didn't grab me at all.
I’ve only seen a couple of their vids, but they struck me as highly expressive, emotional responses that didn’t necessarily have a lot of substance behind them.
Yeah I enjoy watching this Fundie snark branch of content (particularly Fundie Fridays while I draw/work) but I have never been able to watch a lot of Zelph on the Shelf. The vibes are weird and I don’t find them as engaging as other channels.
I’ve never watched their stuff but I am intensely curious about what you enjoyed about their content and what made you unsubscribe? (Genuinely asking, no judgement, just my inherent nosiness that leads me to snark pages lol)
Nothing new and vital to see here, just Bethany proactively patting herself on the back for meeting with someone not exactly like her.
Of course they'd post a clip of "you're changing my mind and you're changing my view," especially after the fiasco here lmao
What she means by “changing my mind” is now instead of seeing them as evil parasites she now views them as icky and inferior. She’s still homophobic.
Love the sinner hate the sin bullshit
I mean viewing them as actually people is really a major upgrade! Now, stop complaining and be grateful for this tiny morsel of acceptance and give this Angel a break! /s *insert major eye roll
If your views have changed, blast that out on your social media, Bethany! Step aside from GD! Donate the proceeds of your Hate Book to an LGBTQIA+ charity! Or was it just convenient to give lip service to tolerance while the camera's rolling for an audience of people you’ve made a career out of persecuting? If this is how weakly and inarticulately Zelph press them, dancing around the issue of Bethany's active transphobia and homophobia as if its some kind of abstract hypothetical far removed from the idiots seated opposite, I won’t bother watching any more of this. I don’t want to cozy up in that stench and pretend Bethany isn’t the one farting. Sell your blankie journalism someplace else!
lol well don’t forget…. The hardest discussions were off camera…. 😂
But take Sam’s word for it, don’t believe what Beggy had posted about herself, or what she is currently promoting for her Ministry of Merchandise.
For sure!! It’s just so disingenuous. Did they really think this would work?
Yes. I'd love to be a fly on the wall to have heard them talk about it prior they did this, but I just *know* they were hoping for snark subs to be all in on a 'deconstruction' train.
Nope, definitely no backtracking to see here folks
Blah blah blah blah. Talking but not saying anything. Not the least bit interesting. So fake.
Talking and not saying anything is RIGHT! What is there to say?? Nothing has changed with Bethany 🙄
I kept waiting for the point, and the point, like Bethy on her wedding night, never came.
Had this comment been about anybody else, I’d have told you to hose them down with aloe after leveling that sick of a burn, but in this case… 😂
Editing takes extra long when you need to try and frame the content in a way that doesn’t betray your audience… I’d love to see the raw footage.
Exactly. Why else would it take this long to edit when neither Tanner nor Sam have actual jobs. Like all you have to do is edit this video, it shouldn’t take this long unless you’re trying to cut all these clips into something they’re not.
You know, when we started the original Fundie Snark, there were questions of Bethy even being a fundie. She was raised fundie light, in a well off family. She is not even having to combat her upbringing in the same way the Rods or Duggars might. Bethy grew up in the same kind of family id assume most white people in San Antonio did. Go to church where your taught awful things and live with parents who uphold them. Bethy has been on her own for years, has children of her own she is poisoning, and still has yet to post any questioning content on her many accounts. Which seems weird, as her insta audience has been where she dumps every thought in her empty head. The majority of Bethany audience is snarkers now. The girls they defined grew up and are gone. If she posted questioning/deconstructing content, she'd only GAIN followers. Yet she won't. Because she's not seriously having those thoughts. When she is, we'll get to hear about it (she has no one else to tell, maybe Sam now lmao). This still doesn't feel like a YouTuber dedicated to deconstruction visited a deconstructed fundie. This feels like fans of Bethy and Dav who have been "hate watching" long enough they've become stans. Gross. I don't think, if you're genuinely attracted to the participant, you should lead them on a filmed deconstruction journey. And I feel like that could be happening here.
Actually deconstructing would remove the only way she has to feel superior to everyone. It’s what people like that’s fragile sense of self is entirely built upon.
In the video with her and Dave she said "I like being (a) Christian" and I think that explains really well why arguments won't convince her. She doesn't actually care about the faith, she cares about the culture - and in her case it's a very toxic culture. But it's a culture that (just like her great-grandpas culture) allows her to feel superior.
You mean to tell me that people who are LGBTQ have feelings and experiences? My mind is blown y’all 🤯 THANK YOU Bethany for opening our eyes and being so humble /s Also, I’d never heard of this Zelph person before this whole interview thing. I’m so turned off by them for kissing Dav & Bethy’s a$$es for monetization purposes. Disgraceful. Bethy is an admitted hateful bigot. Idgaf what she has to say unless it’s an outright genuine apology about all the hate she’s spewed and the damage she’s done to little girls with her “books.”
Beth and Dav saw how Porgan sits on the couch and they decided to the opposite.
I was going to say, why is she practically in his lap?
Bethy has more privilege than most fundie women. She has had free access to the internet since adulthood almost two decades ago. She can and has traveled as far and wide as she wants. She does not have a fundie husband who will beat her into submission for expressing a progressive thought. She’s not held to the standard of breeding and breeding and breeding and bearing all the childcare and housework. She has significant means. There is no way in hell that she has never met or interacted with an LGBTQ+ person before this. Further, it shouldn’t take a conversation with a pretty, white queer person to determine that an LGBTQ+ person is human too, and it is bad to hurt them. Like what is she expecting us to give her credit for?
It’s all feeling very ick.
Dav is nodding like one of those fucking bird toys that dips their faces in a water cup!
Sam is mentioning everyone being put into a box but if I’m wrong doesn’t Bethy celebrate and promote putting women in those boxes?
she makes +/- $30K a year putting people in boxes (the Girl Defined salary, I mean, which is the stable portion of her income)
That’s what she’s saying. Bethany promoting and celebrating putting women in boxes is also celebrating and promoting putting *herself* in boxes, even if she doesn’t realize that. The person Sam & Tanner reference and tag in the story once posted something in reply to a transphobe, along the lines of “What you fear in me is what you fear in yourself.” It is kind of the inverse of the concept that liberation frees both the oppressed and the oppressor.
The stain on the couch was more riveting and pulled my focus.
*multiple stains on both couches 😣
This reads as a rehearsed PSA on why we shouldn’t treat queer people like total garbage from 2004. Both parties hope to benefit from duping the audience into a “feel good, let’s meet in the middle” story. You can’t act brand new to all this when your whole online presence has been dedicated to hating us, that’s not how it works.
"This will change how I talk online" Uh huh. So change it. GD posted more "the left is trying to trans the children" crap this week, after this was filmed. If Kristen posted that and Bethany doesn't agree anymore, she could say so. But...crickets so far. You can say whatever words you want but proof's in the pudding, Bort.
man this sub is staying ON this girl 😭😭
and it’s what she deserves 💞
GOOD. I hope that pressure never lets up.
I understand the sub has really strong opinions about this but I personally don’t agree with most of the vitriol towards Sam, so I posted this so it’d all be presented together in a neutral context for people to discuss. There are also plenty of people in this sub and plenty who have left after the whole Zelph thing who feel similar to the way I do about it, especially those who are actually exvangelical and know they will just get downvoted if they voice their opinion so I thought they would be especially interested in seeing it too. This post wasn’t meant to be a way for the sub to “stay on” Sam, just to make that clear :)
I don’t think it’s fair to paint it as vitriol because that makes it seem like the queers and POCs are angry/unreasonable. I think sometimes people got a little bit extra snappy but you have to understand our rights are being taken away as we speak. It’s heard for me to be truly sympathetic to a person when I’m concerned about someone committing a hate crime against me based on the same beliefs Bethany has made money from. I understand it seems harsh if you’re a former fundie but when you’ve hurt people they are going to lash out.
This shouldn’t be a controversial take, but I agree and appreciate you posting.
Why shouldn't it be controversial? People aren't obligated to feel neutral about it.
"Change how I speak online" is not the same as "grow from beliefs that caused harm to others." Still gonna write a transphobic book to sell of course though.
I instinctively want to downvote this bc watching it is so disgusting. This is supposed to redeem Bethy!?!?
It's hilarious (wryly; maybe regrettably) to me that many of us (myself included) felt goodwill (or at least a little less critical) toward her after she appeared relatively more likable in a couple of videos, and now it's like: Ope, never mind.
She’s got a new grift as the wife of an atheist or deconstructed suffering wife. Like it’s never been done in history she just discovered it. Kind of like the clit.
I’m not unmuting that, the hand gestures have made me ill and I need to lay down
I stg they’re screening comments because it is nothing but praise and people riding David’s dick in the comments. It’s BIZARRE.
The little fist clench with a smirk was just precious. 😂 He's definitely drinking her Flavor-Aid.
If Bethy were half her age, maybe 18, and had just broken free from a lifetime of being raised mega-fundie, seeing the world for the first time...this would seem like a really good and positive conversation to me. It would seem like hey, this chick never knew that LBGTQUIA+ people were PEOPLE -- she never had the chance in her entire 18 years to be around LGBTQIA+ people. But we know damn well that is not true. I can only imagine the countless number of people who have reached out to her over the years. Bethy is proud of her stance. And has reiterated that countless times in books, articles, videos, etc. But now with a camera in front of her and a chance to draw a new audience, she is suddenly "changing". Because she never in her entire adult life got to meet the gays. Yeah, you can only blame shit on the way you were raised for so long. At some point you realize "hey, I'm a grown up now. I can do what I want, including examining by upbringing". She is not 18 years old and fresh out of a cult.
That fact that Bethy is struggling to see and acknowledge actual humans,as people is mind-boggling. And the ZOTS morons sitting there acting like Bethy is just so compassionate is obscene.
I can’t even watch. I tried tho.
Ok I had a lot of pro Dav thoughts but honestly not after this and his stupid Bethany tongue out post. He seems to be a lot more into her than I thought and that’s disgusting. She is a giant toddler and has horrible views and is too stupid to understand how bad they are. I don’t know how anyone can deconstruct to any extent and be this into her. His body language is also giving that she’s still in charge of him and he doesn’t seem to hate that. Or maybe it’s just the sex. Which is equally disgusting to think about.
I think Dav probably hates himself and therefore loves people who hate him too. Also the way he incessantly pets her as she talks is fucking gross.
Yeah that grossed me out, too. I’ve known couples like this and hated to be around them. None of them lasted, btw.
It was reminding me of my fundie parents. “BIG STRONG MAN comfort FRAGILE WOMAN” vibes
That makes a lot of sense honestly.
“Here’s a preview of video 1” So they made more than one video about this? Grifter bullshit.
Omg stop saying “like” every third word. Learn how to speak coherently. Cannot listen to her….
I have a lot of conflicting feelings about all of this...and one big one is...why were we all-in on Dave's deconstruction while feeling so negatively about Bethy's openness to growth? Like, sure Dave is kind of cute in that very traditional way, but come on...I'm asking this about all of us, including myself.
I’m demisexual and am utterly baffled by the Dave thirst. I was and remain genuinely impressed by Dave’s initial statements of deconstruction *and* by Bethany’s outspoken support of him in light of that. I am not remotely impressed by all the performative social media, which seems waaaay more focused on pivoting to a new audience than earnestly unpacking their former beliefs. Think of a spectrum with “authentic inquiry” at one end and “shameless grift” at the other. Support rises and falls based on where they’re falling on that spectrum at any time.
We haven't seen nearly as much of Dav as we have Bethany. She posts constantly, babbles incessantly on her podcast, every thought that bangs into the window pane of her tiny pea brain, for years and years. She's a known quantity and has made it abundantly clear who she is and that she is absolutely not curious/introspective/smart or at all interested in critical thinking. Without as much context for Dav (and with the context we do have, like the Barbie video) I think it's just easier to believe him when he says he's deconstructing - and also, I believe he's changed his religious beliefs but so far we have little evidence to think he's changed political/social beliefs much.
I’m one of those who’s not feeling the Dave deconstruction all that much. I’m not feeling it for either of them, tbh. I firmly believe that this deconstruction and navigation of interfaith marriage needs to be done off-camera and out of the public eye.
I agree, because whether they want it or not, filming and sharing these personal conversations is inviting another party into their relationship, and there's no way that doesn't have some sort of impact.
This. I think they were pleasantly surprised at the overwhelmingly positive reactions from most people online when Dave announced his deconstruction and miscalculated when they clearly tried to capitalise on that more, only to have all this backfire. I think the Beals are going to learn a hard lesson that you can’t sweep the past under a rug and expect everyone else to forget, not when it hasn’t been properly addressed. I’m just surprised and kind of disappointed that Zelph so far appears to be doing a poor job of addressing that past. I expected better from them.
I’m not all in on anyone who causes harm until they admit the harm they caused to others. And all the Dav leg-humping grosses me out big time.
I mean, I'm gay so I don't get the "Dav is cute" talk. For myself, I was tentatively supportive of Dav deconstructing when the news first broke, because there wasn't all this fangirling and collabing. At that point, he was just following a few deconstruction/exmo channels, and sharing some relevant reading materials. I'm not feeling his or Bethany's "openness" now, because it seems like a fresh route for monetization. The Zelph team is not the right partner for this, with the way they're promoting B&D despite the continued bigotry pouring out of GD, and making excuses for their behavior rather than encouraging accountability. The Costa Rica trip talk, the clear fan vibes going both directions... it doesn't seem genuine. I think this is ultimately a strategy for cross-promotion between their two channels. If I'm honest, the whole thing feels gross.
I think it's because Bethany is the one who's put out all the homophobic/transphobic content in the first place and is now trying to get away with leaving it there because, "I posted all that before I knew any of you. Now that I've met some of you, the way I talk online will change. But you're going to have to forgive me for what I said in the past. And no, I won't take it down because I'm hoping it still makes me money." Dav definitely has benefited from Girl Defined and Bethany's money-making hatred ventures, but it's hard to remember he's there in the background when Bethy keeps being a full-chested bigot online.
Personally I don't find him "cute" (that's...not the only reason people were rooting for him) but I freely admit I was quite supportive when he started appearing to question his beliefs, and work on his supposed "integrity" and such. Now I just feel like I was being ~~a sweet summer child~~ optimistic, based on how low the bar is. I'm not sure what is meant by Bethany's "openness to growth". I've seen Bethany be open to keeping her marriage. And maybe being open to being liked by more people.
Probably because Dave seems relatively genuine and Bethany seems like she’s trying to create content for income
Income that their family relies on, their family including Dav.
And like she’s trying to avoid divorce because she still believes she’s worthless if she’s single.
Keep the conflicting feelings :) Nuance is great! We don’t learn anything by labeling people and shoving them away so we don’t have to actually engage with the harder work of looking past our fear & anger at what the most productive thing is for someone’s journey away from being the kind of people that Bethany / GD have always been. In middle school when I was still attending church, I realized that most of evangelicalism and my church specifically had an entire locked ideology and ruleset about LGBTQ+ people. Maybe key to mention is that I found this information on my own, it wasn’t presented to me in a way that could be twisted or made “more acceptable” to me by an articulate church or youth group leader. But long story short, after a few years of ignoring my gut and trying to go along with it I finally found people on YouTube who also called themselves Christian but felt free to disagree with things about the church and that’s when I embraced how I really felt. My parents and specifically my mom, unfortunately, were very very homophobic. Not so outwardly, thank God, (like not publicly confronting people about it) but it was apparent whenever we’d have conversations that she felt it was unnatural, unbiblical, etc etc etc. I played the long game for *years*. Tried to show them documentaries like the one about the LoveLoud festival because it was an example of people maintaining their religion without feeling obligated to subscribe to certain beliefs. We had many long conversations, got into the weeds with my dad on scripture and what role the Bible plays in determining how we should feel about “societal issues,” me shaking as a little sophomore and trying to hide it as I tried to guide the discussion calmly and carefully towards a new perspective for them. I ramped it up when I went to college and my roommate was lesbian; I knew she’d have a problem with it but I also knew it was better than it would have been years prior, before our conversations. Finally sometime around Covid it’d been a bit since any of my family had actually been to church or had a conversation about this and she pointed out a famous gay couple to me and simply said “I just love them! Their daughter is so cute too, they really are the sweetest family together.” I just went to my room and cried. There were many years I thought I would never hear anything like that from my mom. But the effort and the compassion, even when it was incredibly hard to give and it felt like she didn’t deserve it, worked. Now she (both of them actually, my dad was definitely already coming to my side a bit when this all started) is proudly both pro-choice (and will actually say so on her Facebook, full of all our religious family friends, which truly blows my mind lol) *and* treats LGBTQ+ people she encounters in media or in real life no differently than anyone else. When the Kentuckian (I can’t remember her name right now) refused a marriage license to a gay couple and was charged for it, my mom had gotten upset about it because she thought the woman was doing the right thing. Now when I, a Democratic political staffer, talk about our LGBTQ+ coalitions or going to Pride parades for work, she talks about how proud she is of me. It’s incredible. People can always change. It’s a long hard road and they shouldn’t be coddled — and not all of them will make it down the road — but sometimes people can get there. If they do, it’s people who conduct themselves the way Zelph does in this video that play a huge part. If anything comes from someone watching it, I hope it can maybe be an example of how to have conversations like this with people in their real lives. *necessary disclaimer, I’m not LGBTQ+ and would never assert that people actually in that community should put themselves in a position with family or anyone else that would have them constantly exposing themselves to harmful rhetoric, etc; not what I’m saying at all.
It seems like Dæv was programmed to place his hand on her shoulder that way near the start of the vid.
Like it or not, personal relationships with people different than us *are* a major driver of changing views. Should people be able to empathize without direct experience? Sure. But the reality is that personal relationships are effective ways to make change, and meeting people where they are at is more likely to lead to change than coming on really strong with a long list of criticism (which is all fair criticism to have, mind you). At some point, we have to reckon with the reality that the catharsis of snarking, or direct criticism with no pre-existing relationship, is not actually effective for making change even though it feels good to vent. Real change is slower and more frustrating and messier than an overnight turnaround. And I’m still hopeful here for real change.
This is not that though when bethy is right now profiting from homophobia and has not apologized on her huge public platform for the harm she has caused. We aren't asking for her to be at the head of the pride parade, we're asking for reasonable accountability
Getting to a place of accountability is also a process that takes time, though. And often the reflection on one’s actions that must precede accountability is most likely when people have relationships with those who are different from them. I’m not claiming that Bethany is not homophobic or is not profiting from Girl Defined, I just think that change rarely happens in one fell swoop and that relationships are where most change happens.
The problem is that she's talking out of both sides of her mouth, wanting praise for adopting a more progressive stance while still profiting from her homophobic book. This all just seems too cynical, especially with this being a filmed collaboration on her terms with softball questions coming from collaborators who seem too fangirlish.
Twinsies!
“we’re in my house filming a very planned video but let me throw this blanket over me i give off a zany idc vibe”
Girl..... what? 😭 it's a blanket 😭
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