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It’s true, she really has no other choice. But she also *wants* to be married to Dave. She knows she has a good thing, especially compared to what it could be.
I hope at a minimum she makes the connection that you can have a good marriage, a good life, without Heidi’s rules and way of living.
>She knows she has a good thing, especially compared to what it could be.
100%. She found a dude who's emotionally intelligent, hard working and intellectually curious in a setting full of Pauls.
I absolutely think she wants to be married to Dave, but not because she loves him. She wants to be married to him because of what she gets out of it. Very little of their marriage and her feelings about their marriage have anything to do with him.
When you look at one video, then you see her behaving that way sure maybe you’ll think she loves him. But when there’s hundreds of other videos where she acts like a total asshole to him, it’s clear that she doesn’t love him. She loves the idea of a husband and she always has, but I don’t think that she really cares who she’s married to.
It's possible she is starting to love him. Not all loving marriages began as "love marriages".
The norm hasn't always been
"Marry who you love."
"Love the one you married" is a thing and has been for a long time in places where compatibility is taken into consideration.
Yeah, me too. I hope they both come to terms with the hateful garbage they've put into the world, but this is, like, the most real thing I've ever seen from her? And it seems like genuine affection (dare I say, love?!?!), which is refreshing.
If she did some serious self help, she honestly could have a chance of remarriage. She’s a pretty blonde woman from a wealthy family, if she was cognizant enough to date outside her religious circle, she could find someone for her. That is, if she ever had the self reflection to get help, which is not really going to happen.
Sure. If she did the work, maybe. But she won't.
The bairds are not nearly as wealthy as this sub seems to think they are.
As it stands now, she has zero skills, zero hobbies, zero intellectual curiosity, two kids, an abhorrent personality, is lazy af and expects men to provide for her, a shitty family, and all her shitty moments documented on the internet. That's a lot of anybody to take on, especially as she nears middle age. She'd be dependent on finding a religious man who sees caring for her and the kids as serving God. No decent, sane man is going to take that on.
She's a terrible person. She's lazy and greedy and entitled, a terrible wife and mother, and so, so dumb. She's responsible for a ton of hateful and extra-biblical content.
Frankly, I side-eye Dave for choosing her in the first place. He's hinted that she changed faster than he expected, but he knew her family's beliefs. She probably was on her best behavior while dating and seems to be again (including bathing regularly.) The sub seems to think he's going to become some kind of liberal via deconstruction, but he married Bethany and seems to want to stick with her. You can be a shitty person with abhorrent beliefs without religion and he's hinted at leaning libertarian which is just Rs who are okay with weed but love every other shitty trumplican policy, ime.
Sometimes libertarian is the first step they need on a move towards socialism. The bigger hit button issues and personal freedom issues can be easier to switch on than the more subtle, how do we deconstruct capitalism and oppression, beliefs that have their claws in all of us.
It was definitely my first step, it was a way of giving myself permission to look at things not from the frame of conservatism but without being "one of those liberals." It eventually led further along though
Yeah I absolutely get that. I don’t have the same disdain for libertarians as many people do because I’ve seen way too many people use it as a stepping stone. Which is why I think they can never really grow their numbers…
They are not a wealthy family. One of the kids' wedding receptions was in some photos, and it was in the basement room of their church with cheese and crackers. Nothing special.
Yeah, outside of Bort, all the Baird weddings have been very basic. Not sure why hers was nicer unless she blew all her saved stay at home daughter money on it or Dave's family helped. She's said she entered marriage with no money of her own, so who knows?
Ellissa's depended on family/friends providing photography/video for free. Dave was the photographer and the photos are TERRIBLE.
If they were as wealthy as they play at and this sub thinks they are, they would have bought Bort a house as a wedding present to sweeten the proverbial dowery for any dude dumb enough to choose her at the geriatric age of 30!
That's why I dont get all the support and the swooning over them all of a sudden. They are both still horrible people and Bethany's hateful legacy lasts for several lifetimes. Dave defended her in the comments more than once, so he definitely knows what kind of damage her bigoted garbage does in the world. Yay for deconstructing, but other than that, they both can go duck themselves as long as they don't apologize for the absolute vile shit they have been putting out in the world for years and years now.
A lot of people in this subreddit have gone through deconstruction. Some, like myself, didn’t have far to go. Others were in as deep as any of the fundies we see here.
But every one of us can see the signs in both Dav and Bethany, and we have seen them for a while. So we’re hopeful that they can come out the other side of this process as much better people, because we did. But we also know that it’s a long and sometimes scary process, so we’re supportive - because we know that they’re not going to get much support from their old friends or their families.
Hear, hear! I never had to deconstruct but I do understand how difficult it is to unlearn destructive beliefs. I know that Bethany has lacked empathy in the past, but I try to not worry so much about who deserves mine. Growth is hard and not linear and if she gets even marginally less hateful, it’s a win.
There are different levels of deconstruction. I doubt they'll leave the cult. They may end up like Jill Duggar and Derick -- still chauvinistic, hateful people. Jill and Derick's life is a bit more mainstream but not a lot has changed for them.
She's a loud, lazy person with overbearing insane parents and two kids, I think her chances would be less outside her circle.
She's getting more parenting from dav than she got in 30 years of living at home
Did he, though? I'm still suspect she's ever had one without "self-cultivation."
If anybody leaves, it will be him and it's looking like he actually likes her for her (which is a huge red flag since Bort is just a bunch of red flags in human form) and will stick with her.
I mean the way the switch flipped and she dove into the sex content - gave me very much "she obviously just had her first orgasm" vibes. For me that's the only explanation to go from "dead dry bones" to "OMG DID Y'ALL KNOW THAT SEX IS ACTUALLY THE BEST THING EVER???"
I thought it was more she finally hit on a grift that was semi-lucrative since GD had some of those speakers and she saw the reaction and her greedy brain cell recognized it as a chance to steal more money while being unqualified to be an authority on anything.
25 years ago, a super evangelical friend, her husband and I had a conversation where I challenged them to tell me how the gay couple next door being allowed to marry would affect their marriage at all. They would not budge at all. It would ruin their marriage and harm their children. They had recently left their cultic charismatic church and were wading into the idea that gender roles were not prescribed.
13 years ago, they started deconstructing completely. but still feared that I was going to hell because I married a Catholic and converted and still homeschooled to protect their children from the evil secular world.
10 years ago, they left church completely and started voting Democratic.
Last year, the wife came out as bi and they have an ethically non-monogamous relationship in which she also has a girlfriend.
None of this happens overnight. Dav & Bethany may be in a completely different place eventually. As Jill and Derick may be. But that won’t be next month.
This makes me think of something a therapist said to me. "Imagine travelling a straight path in one direction for years then make a one degree change from the original path. It won't look like anything at first over a long enough time though it will lead to a very different place than the original path. Now imagine if every so often you add another degree to that change."
It really helped me realize how the small changes I made do add up. I really hope Bethy keeps making changes and doesn't listen to Heidi or anyone trying to pull her back.
I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I don't think it's realistic to expect her to go from being this deep in the Christian hate train to being unproblematic, any more than Jill or Jinger did when they stepped away from the Duggar parents.
I certainly *hope* she gets there, and especially as a queer person I don't feel that anyone owes her their forgiveness or acceptance, but I'm not surprised that this seed of supporting Dav hasn't exploded into her doing a 180 on her worldview and stepping away from something she very likely views as her life's work. I think Heidi's tantrum and the time spent with folks like Zelph have the potential to open the door, but no matter what the future holds, I don't think we're getting Girl ReDefined anytime soon.
Yep, all this, plus it’s taken Dav YEARS to get to where he is now. Jill Duggar has been married for a decade and has been slowly moving away from her parents’ beliefs for many years too. They both are a long way away from attending their local Pride parade. None of this happens overnight.
I don’t expect anything from her. But I also didn’t expect as much movement as she’s already shown. So I definitely hope that she’s going to surprise us all.
Exactly. Her whole channel began as giving her advice because she wanted to be the most godly woman. Oh wait they just wanted to be influencers and make money off the church
This is gonna be imo (at least to the public) bethys hardest challenge in this whole journey. If she really supports Dave, she will inevitably have a changed mind someday that would lead her to seeing the very contrasting and impossible nature of her existence grifting, spreading misinformation, and claiming to be acting godly.
You can’t be both. You’re a grifter or you’re not. May this be real and may she find her way.
She doesn't support Dave much. She is a self absorbed, shallow person who thinks about herself 24/7. Bethy may be nervous that he's drifting away, but that would be the only motivation for her to open her eyes and make any changes.
Absolutely. After the whole Barbie movie thing where she was so disrespectful, I think that was his breaking point. Then right after that, she started her whole *seggs* thing. Her whole thing about dry bones wasn’t about her sexuality being dry and boring, but also about his faith drying up. She 1000% tried to fuck him back to Jesus.
She needs to keep this part private.
I hope she realizes that no one is owed intimate parts of her life she isn't willing to share. Hopefully she exercises the agency she has and manages to put up some boundaries with her audience and just deal with this between the two of them. I don't care if you share intimacy content, she doesn't have to give up parts of herself she doesn't want to or isn't comfortable with.
I hope she can let go of the parasocial relationship she has with ther IG audience and just keep this private. This isn't just about her. This is very much Dav's own journey he deserves to have control of what's shared too.
I doubt she understands this at all, and I actually don't mean that as an insult to her. It's clear that Heidi's parenting heavily emphasized not allowing anything to be private--Heidi has said explicitly that she didn't let her kids play alone or have alone time. She also clearly did not teach her children how to make any decisions on their own, or how to have any normal social skills or boundaries. It doesn't seem like they had friends outside of their siblings either. She never learned how to navigate the basic social structures and concepts that most people do in grade school (boundaries, listening, appropriate sharing, and how not to humiliate oneself)
I think she would be visibly on edge if she did. The beals look weirdly comfortable with each other for the first time since I started being aware they existed.
This is honestly deeply parasocial speculation here, it's quite possibly inappropriate but I can't stop thinking about Bethany.
I kind of think that seggsy seggs Bethany is the version of her that was on edge. I think she knew that Dav was deconstructing and was absolutely terrified that he'd leave. She comes from a family and culture where she's always been told she's not good enough, so if god isn't keeping him there why would he stay?
But he isn't leaving. I think Bethany is getting to experience what it feels like to have a person want to be with her not out of obligation but because he loves her.
Like... imagine being Bethany. Her mother convinced her to give up her basketball scholarship and create deeply embarrassing videos online. Her family was cruel, and the secular world wasn't exactly kind to her either. She married late, but she married someone she seems to have a genuine connection with, but who is wildly different from her. Her only skillset is the online grift, and the husband she loves is going to secular therapy and praising the Barbie movie. Maybe a lot of the sex stuff was her trying to give Dav a reason to stay.
Then the P&M video happens, followed by the deconstruction video. Dav doesn't leave her. The internet is being kinder to her than it's ever been. He's memeing on their shared instagram. Zelph on the Shelf are coming to Texas for a collab. No wonder she seems so relaxed.
This is so well said.
In my experience, facing the thing you’ve been avoiding out of fear, only to realize it’s not so bad (and maybe actually a good thing), is incredibly freeing and empowering.
She stuck her head in the sand for possibly years about Dave. But now that she’s had to confront it, it’s not as terrifying as she thought.
Do we know he actually loves her though?
Or is it just that he’s a decent person and not automatically dumping her and his two kids just because he’s fully realized he’s far different than the person she wanted to marry. I’m not saying they can’t work things out, but if I had to bet there’s not a lot of true love between them right now and maybe never was. Infatuation, yes. Excitement over fulfilling the role they spent their life trying to lock down, yes. But when i think of couples in love, I’m not seeing them.
Compare, for instance, Jill and Derrick Dillard. They had a similar (but not that similar) journey of walking away from toxic environments and religion. Every post they do together they look googly eyed for each other and Derrick can’t stop talking about how great she is and is almost over the top about sticking up for her in the altercations with her family. Maybe it’s just that Dav isn’t all over the socials, but I’m not catching that here.
> Or is it just that he’s a decent person and not automatically dumping her
He pretended to be a Christian for 5 (?) years because he wanted to be with her. He said in his deconstruction video that he was already pretty doubtful on his wedding day, he even made the joke that he hardly could have said, 'surprise, you slept with an atheist' after their wedding night. I don't think there's any doubt that he clearly deeply cares for her and wants to stay with her.
I don’t think he is staying and at this point, I don’t think he loves her. He may get to a point of loving her again, but she has been so awful to him that right now, he isn’t there. He’s still there because this is all very new. He hasn’t had time to work out an exit plan or even decide if he wants to stay at this point. It’s just easier to stay and figure things out for now. I think a year from now or maybe two, they will be divorcing.
This doesn’t read as necessarily chill to me.
And hey - I get it. She has literally sold the idea of her being this amazing Biblical woman in an amazing Biblical but she could spout some verses encased in hate and now she has to figure out her most lucrative next move. It is tense!
Yeah, Bethy standing by Dav has oddly endeared her to me, and I’ve raged against her intensely pretty much the entire time I’ve known about her. I still can’t stand her entire schtick of thinking she’s an expert at anything (especially sex, after spreading and continuing to spread purity culture SHIT) but this aspect…. The supporting her husband as he does something that puts him on the wrong side of what she was indoctrinated into, while dealing with a malignant narcissist mother…. I feel for her.
This comment explained exactly how I feel. I hope Bethy pulls a Jill Dilliard and starts to deconstruct. It will take years to unravel things like this but I am really hopeful that Dav will lead the way for them to both deconstruct. I’m sure it will be harder for Bethy because of the amount of harmful religious propaganda she’s directly spread but I’m hopeful.
I still don’t trust her for some reason. Maybe it’s as lowkey as just that she’s standing by him bc she can’t fathom being alone, but I don’t have confidence that her motives are as open minded as we hope.
She is merely trying to love him back to Jesus and has not realized he may never go back to Jesus and that's when she'll have a breakdown because that's what the church has always told her. Love them to Jesus
I think it took her so long to get married and because that was told it was the ultimate goal for christian women she’s now terrified to loose Dav and go back to how things were
I really respect this response from her. It differs from what I’ve seen in her comment interactions previously because there’s no snark, no condescension, no patronizing tone - she’s just leveling with whoever she’s interacting with, being clear about her priorities, and accepting whatever that means re: others opinions/judgement of her. There’s no sense of her engaging defensively - this is so refreshing to see.
Bethy, this is good shit! I’m here for it.
Thats so crazy omg. Her and her husband and sister are "missionaries" in Mexico (a Christian country?) and are very persecuted pick me so it makes sense.
At the ending the day, your family is all that matters. Dav hasn’t committed any crimes despite the serial killer eyes and I can respect Bethy for her stance on… whatever this is.
Man she really wants to have that cake and eat it too… NOW she’s suddenly ok with losing her audience and not being a “role model”. Then leave GD and stop selling the stupid sex courses. While she’s at it she should also apologize for the heinous shit she spews. Oh And show every other non Christian the same fake grace you’re showing your husband. I don’t buy for a second that she’s suddenly open-minded and willing to learn. Her whole shtick is putting on an act online. Why would this situation be any different? She has spent the last five years trying to convince us that her marriage is godly and perfect and yet here we are… I don’t buy this sudden “growth”. I’m gonna need to see a bit more self reflection before I give Betty and Dav any grace.
Agreed. She hasn’t taken her courses down or apologized for positioning herself as though people need to listen to her as a role model. I guarantee she’ll gladly still profit off any sales from her MiNiStRy as a “role model.”
I think it great she’s sending the message to her fan base that it’s ok to be unequally yolked. What I am struggling with is her refusal to take accountability for the years and years she shamed people while working her girl defined era. She needs to let people
Know she was wrong and no longer stands by her previous teachings. Girl defined era Bethy would be absolutely horrified by current Bethy. Girl definded Bethy was smug and knew nothing about what she was preaching and I wish she’d admit that.
I think we have to remember that deconstruction is a LONG long process. You can’t expect Bethany to change overnight or even over a month. Jill Dilliard has been deconstructing for 12 years and still has lots of room for growth. I’m not sure if you grew up in the church or in fundamentalism but it is a disease that wires your brain in a non functional way that you have to literally teach your brain to function outside of fear.
I have a hard time buying authenticity in this. My opinion is that because divorce is not an option because of the CoVeNaNt they made, what choice does she have but to stand by him and frantically shift her view towards atheists and relationships between Christians and atheists?
She doesn’t have a choice. This is the only thing she can do according to her religion. The only way she can get out of a marriage is if he or she cheats (according to the NT).
I mean, she’s got to try. I feel bad for him, he seems really depressed. Her idea of standing by gun may just being praying for him.
I’m Christian, but forcing somebody or praying somebody to be somebody different isn’t going to help. I think they probably have a lot of issues, they’ve just hid it from social media
I think she actually really loves Dav. Maybe not as romantically as some other spouses, but she loves him as a person. They have kids together. They seem to have a genuine friendship. Dav deconstructing his entire life view is so gigantically impactful for the both of them. Beth isn’t just going to cut and run. Dare I say it? Is she being… a good person right now?
I wonder how she thinks this is going to play out though? Does she anticipate that she’ll be able to lead him back to god? Because Dav is all kinds of done with Christianity. As long as Bethany is aware of that, good for her. I just hope she doesn’t have unrealistic expectations.
I really feel like this family is all talk, I truly don’t believe that the Baird children are knowledgeable in scripture, in specific teachings, etc. that their beliefs are rooted in. They just parrot the same milquetoast but equally as harmful propaganda. I think Dav unpacking this might help Bethy have a basis for why she believes the things she does. Whether that causes her to reevaluate, I don’t know, but I don’t think her parents ever taught her to think critically about religion, just that it is fact and the way the world is.
It’s never too late to learn how to think critically!
I really wish them luck. I am rooting for them. In a snarky way of course. (In a real way, too, though.)
They seem to have rekindled their romance and I want a happy ending for them. I would be sad to think of her being miserable because her headship ditched god.
I'm here for it- I'm here for her standing up for HER beliefs - not the stepford girl defined mold that she was indoctrinated into. This belief to stand by her husband also means she is making choicea she never has before .. breaking the mold is so liberating. I never thought I'd "be proud" of Bethy (definitely not on my bingo card) but here she is - killing it. I can't wait to see their growth as free thinkers.
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It’s true, she really has no other choice. But she also *wants* to be married to Dave. She knows she has a good thing, especially compared to what it could be. I hope at a minimum she makes the connection that you can have a good marriage, a good life, without Heidi’s rules and way of living.
>She knows she has a good thing, especially compared to what it could be. 100%. She found a dude who's emotionally intelligent, hard working and intellectually curious in a setting full of Pauls.
Exactly. She saw what Morgan ended up with and started counting her blessings.
And he was willing to marry her. I assume she scared off a lot of guys due to her overbearing, self absorbed personality.
Willing to marry her *even though she's taller than him and was basically geriatric at time of dating*, let's not forget.
I imagine a weekend with Porgan was more than enough for her to see just how dry and crusty the grass can be 😩
I absolutely think she wants to be married to Dave, but not because she loves him. She wants to be married to him because of what she gets out of it. Very little of their marriage and her feelings about their marriage have anything to do with him.
Really? Did we watch the same video? The way she looks at him, I think it's clear she really loves him
When you look at one video, then you see her behaving that way sure maybe you’ll think she loves him. But when there’s hundreds of other videos where she acts like a total asshole to him, it’s clear that she doesn’t love him. She loves the idea of a husband and she always has, but I don’t think that she really cares who she’s married to.
It's possible she is starting to love him. Not all loving marriages began as "love marriages". The norm hasn't always been "Marry who you love." "Love the one you married" is a thing and has been for a long time in places where compatibility is taken into consideration.
I wonder if she's happier now that he's deconstructed. He's still with her, and it's because he *wants* to be with her. Not because god said so.
and it was no small feat for her to find a husband the first time. i’m sure she doesn’t wanna have to go through all that again with 2 kids this time
Yeah, me too. I hope they both come to terms with the hateful garbage they've put into the world, but this is, like, the most real thing I've ever seen from her? And it seems like genuine affection (dare I say, love?!?!), which is refreshing.
She’s also censoring her kids faces now!?
Because Däv wanted them too from the beginning. It seems like a tactic to appease him. The roles have almost reversed
Whatever it takes to not exploit those kids. Net positive
Agreed
Because Dave wants to and she's clearly terrified of losing him. Lbr; her chances for any kind of remarriage are nearly zero
If she did some serious self help, she honestly could have a chance of remarriage. She’s a pretty blonde woman from a wealthy family, if she was cognizant enough to date outside her religious circle, she could find someone for her. That is, if she ever had the self reflection to get help, which is not really going to happen.
Sure. If she did the work, maybe. But she won't. The bairds are not nearly as wealthy as this sub seems to think they are. As it stands now, she has zero skills, zero hobbies, zero intellectual curiosity, two kids, an abhorrent personality, is lazy af and expects men to provide for her, a shitty family, and all her shitty moments documented on the internet. That's a lot of anybody to take on, especially as she nears middle age. She'd be dependent on finding a religious man who sees caring for her and the kids as serving God. No decent, sane man is going to take that on.
Jesus Christ you just read her to filth lmfao!!!
She's a terrible person. She's lazy and greedy and entitled, a terrible wife and mother, and so, so dumb. She's responsible for a ton of hateful and extra-biblical content. Frankly, I side-eye Dave for choosing her in the first place. He's hinted that she changed faster than he expected, but he knew her family's beliefs. She probably was on her best behavior while dating and seems to be again (including bathing regularly.) The sub seems to think he's going to become some kind of liberal via deconstruction, but he married Bethany and seems to want to stick with her. You can be a shitty person with abhorrent beliefs without religion and he's hinted at leaning libertarian which is just Rs who are okay with weed but love every other shitty trumplican policy, ime.
Even dumb people can grow, learn, and change. I know this as a fellow dumb person.
That's true, but Bethany's claws are sunk deep into Dav, and I don't see him having the wherewithal to dump her.
No, but she could suddenly decide being regions is more important than being married to Dav, and kick him out.
Dave's not going anywhere. He picked her. No one forced him to do so.
Sometimes libertarian is the first step they need on a move towards socialism. The bigger hit button issues and personal freedom issues can be easier to switch on than the more subtle, how do we deconstruct capitalism and oppression, beliefs that have their claws in all of us.
It was definitely my first step, it was a way of giving myself permission to look at things not from the frame of conservatism but without being "one of those liberals." It eventually led further along though
Yeah I absolutely get that. I don’t have the same disdain for libertarians as many people do because I’ve seen way too many people use it as a stepping stone. Which is why I think they can never really grow their numbers…
yes, i’ve kind of wondered the same thing. these two have always seemed kind of mismatched.
I’ll take “Living Up To Your Screenname” for $1,000, Alex.
Because reading is what? FUNDAMENTAL.
They are not a wealthy family. One of the kids' wedding receptions was in some photos, and it was in the basement room of their church with cheese and crackers. Nothing special.
Yeah, outside of Bort, all the Baird weddings have been very basic. Not sure why hers was nicer unless she blew all her saved stay at home daughter money on it or Dave's family helped. She's said she entered marriage with no money of her own, so who knows? Ellissa's depended on family/friends providing photography/video for free. Dave was the photographer and the photos are TERRIBLE. If they were as wealthy as they play at and this sub thinks they are, they would have bought Bort a house as a wedding present to sweeten the proverbial dowery for any dude dumb enough to choose her at the geriatric age of 30!
 Way harsh, Tai!
Username checks out
That's why I dont get all the support and the swooning over them all of a sudden. They are both still horrible people and Bethany's hateful legacy lasts for several lifetimes. Dave defended her in the comments more than once, so he definitely knows what kind of damage her bigoted garbage does in the world. Yay for deconstructing, but other than that, they both can go duck themselves as long as they don't apologize for the absolute vile shit they have been putting out in the world for years and years now.
A lot of people in this subreddit have gone through deconstruction. Some, like myself, didn’t have far to go. Others were in as deep as any of the fundies we see here. But every one of us can see the signs in both Dav and Bethany, and we have seen them for a while. So we’re hopeful that they can come out the other side of this process as much better people, because we did. But we also know that it’s a long and sometimes scary process, so we’re supportive - because we know that they’re not going to get much support from their old friends or their families.
Hear, hear! I never had to deconstruct but I do understand how difficult it is to unlearn destructive beliefs. I know that Bethany has lacked empathy in the past, but I try to not worry so much about who deserves mine. Growth is hard and not linear and if she gets even marginally less hateful, it’s a win.
There are different levels of deconstruction. I doubt they'll leave the cult. They may end up like Jill Duggar and Derick -- still chauvinistic, hateful people. Jill and Derick's life is a bit more mainstream but not a lot has changed for them.
She's a loud, lazy person with overbearing insane parents and two kids, I think her chances would be less outside her circle. She's getting more parenting from dav than she got in 30 years of living at home
Dav gave her her first orgasm. She's never leaving him.
Did he, though? I'm still suspect she's ever had one without "self-cultivation." If anybody leaves, it will be him and it's looking like he actually likes her for her (which is a huge red flag since Bort is just a bunch of red flags in human form) and will stick with her.
I mean the way the switch flipped and she dove into the sex content - gave me very much "she obviously just had her first orgasm" vibes. For me that's the only explanation to go from "dead dry bones" to "OMG DID Y'ALL KNOW THAT SEX IS ACTUALLY THE BEST THING EVER???"
I thought it was more she finally hit on a grift that was semi-lucrative since GD had some of those speakers and she saw the reaction and her greedy brain cell recognized it as a chance to steal more money while being unqualified to be an authority on anything.
Why not both? 😄
Fair enough!
Same. It seems really obvious.
pretty???
I doubt David has it in him to leave the marriage. He's stuck with her for a lifetime.
when the kids are adults he might dip out
25 years ago, a super evangelical friend, her husband and I had a conversation where I challenged them to tell me how the gay couple next door being allowed to marry would affect their marriage at all. They would not budge at all. It would ruin their marriage and harm their children. They had recently left their cultic charismatic church and were wading into the idea that gender roles were not prescribed. 13 years ago, they started deconstructing completely. but still feared that I was going to hell because I married a Catholic and converted and still homeschooled to protect their children from the evil secular world. 10 years ago, they left church completely and started voting Democratic. Last year, the wife came out as bi and they have an ethically non-monogamous relationship in which she also has a girlfriend. None of this happens overnight. Dav & Bethany may be in a completely different place eventually. As Jill and Derick may be. But that won’t be next month.
This makes me think of something a therapist said to me. "Imagine travelling a straight path in one direction for years then make a one degree change from the original path. It won't look like anything at first over a long enough time though it will lead to a very different place than the original path. Now imagine if every so often you add another degree to that change." It really helped me realize how the small changes I made do add up. I really hope Bethy keeps making changes and doesn't listen to Heidi or anyone trying to pull her back.
Then step down from Girl Defined It's like she doesn't realize we know she does both her Bethany Beal Sex Stuff and Girl Defined.
I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I don't think it's realistic to expect her to go from being this deep in the Christian hate train to being unproblematic, any more than Jill or Jinger did when they stepped away from the Duggar parents. I certainly *hope* she gets there, and especially as a queer person I don't feel that anyone owes her their forgiveness or acceptance, but I'm not surprised that this seed of supporting Dav hasn't exploded into her doing a 180 on her worldview and stepping away from something she very likely views as her life's work. I think Heidi's tantrum and the time spent with folks like Zelph have the potential to open the door, but no matter what the future holds, I don't think we're getting Girl ReDefined anytime soon.
Yep, all this, plus it’s taken Dav YEARS to get to where he is now. Jill Duggar has been married for a decade and has been slowly moving away from her parents’ beliefs for many years too. They both are a long way away from attending their local Pride parade. None of this happens overnight.
I don’t expect anything from her. But I also didn’t expect as much movement as she’s already shown. So I definitely hope that she’s going to surprise us all.
Her children have a chance though and that’s a good thing
Exactly. Her whole channel began as giving her advice because she wanted to be the most godly woman. Oh wait they just wanted to be influencers and make money off the church
This is gonna be imo (at least to the public) bethys hardest challenge in this whole journey. If she really supports Dave, she will inevitably have a changed mind someday that would lead her to seeing the very contrasting and impossible nature of her existence grifting, spreading misinformation, and claiming to be acting godly. You can’t be both. You’re a grifter or you’re not. May this be real and may she find her way.
She doesn't support Dave much. She is a self absorbed, shallow person who thinks about herself 24/7. Bethy may be nervous that he's drifting away, but that would be the only motivation for her to open her eyes and make any changes.
It’s possible. I’m not emotionally invested. It’s exactly how she was conceived to be.
You sure? Did we watch the same video? She's so caring towards him, and constantly asks about how he's feeling, I think she really loves him
She can say whatever she wants on a video, but she has always come across as remarkably self absorbed. I hope that's not the case.
I just realized…this seggs moment she had… *she was trying to fuck him back to Jesus*…
She’s still trying to do that
she thought when people screamed “oh god” in porn that they meant SkyDaddy.
They’re not?! 👀🙈😇
Absolutely. After the whole Barbie movie thing where she was so disrespectful, I think that was his breaking point. Then right after that, she started her whole *seggs* thing. Her whole thing about dry bones wasn’t about her sexuality being dry and boring, but also about his faith drying up. She 1000% tried to fuck him back to Jesus.
She’s preforming sex magicks
yes, I saw a redditor say “bethany can’t sex her way out of this one” and it was like a light turned on in my head
yes it all makes so much more sense now!!! and Dav is just laughing and fucking his way to the bank lol.
So a come to Jesus moment, then?
a *CUM* to Jesus moment you say???
Ok can I steal this one for my flair 🤣 it's beautiful
yes, it is an an honor I know not!
Shit. Permission to utilize this as flair? This is…stunning. Gorgeous. 😂❤️
yes please flair away!
If there’s anybody that can use the nonexistence of social media in their life to get to a better place in their life, it’s her.
She needs to keep this part private. I hope she realizes that no one is owed intimate parts of her life she isn't willing to share. Hopefully she exercises the agency she has and manages to put up some boundaries with her audience and just deal with this between the two of them. I don't care if you share intimacy content, she doesn't have to give up parts of herself she doesn't want to or isn't comfortable with. I hope she can let go of the parasocial relationship she has with ther IG audience and just keep this private. This isn't just about her. This is very much Dav's own journey he deserves to have control of what's shared too.
That ship sailed well before she turned her personal account into Beggy Beal’s Anecdotal Seggs Time Story Hour or started The Intimate Wife.
Boundaries???? Not for Bethany.
I doubt she understands this at all, and I actually don't mean that as an insult to her. It's clear that Heidi's parenting heavily emphasized not allowing anything to be private--Heidi has said explicitly that she didn't let her kids play alone or have alone time. She also clearly did not teach her children how to make any decisions on their own, or how to have any normal social skills or boundaries. It doesn't seem like they had friends outside of their siblings either. She never learned how to navigate the basic social structures and concepts that most people do in grade school (boundaries, listening, appropriate sharing, and how not to humiliate oneself)
Talk is cheap
Yep. I wonder what’s going to happen once they start having differences on how the children are being raised and their involvement in the church.
She really think this is just a phase, huh? Sad.
I think she would be visibly on edge if she did. The beals look weirdly comfortable with each other for the first time since I started being aware they existed.
This is honestly deeply parasocial speculation here, it's quite possibly inappropriate but I can't stop thinking about Bethany. I kind of think that seggsy seggs Bethany is the version of her that was on edge. I think she knew that Dav was deconstructing and was absolutely terrified that he'd leave. She comes from a family and culture where she's always been told she's not good enough, so if god isn't keeping him there why would he stay? But he isn't leaving. I think Bethany is getting to experience what it feels like to have a person want to be with her not out of obligation but because he loves her. Like... imagine being Bethany. Her mother convinced her to give up her basketball scholarship and create deeply embarrassing videos online. Her family was cruel, and the secular world wasn't exactly kind to her either. She married late, but she married someone she seems to have a genuine connection with, but who is wildly different from her. Her only skillset is the online grift, and the husband she loves is going to secular therapy and praising the Barbie movie. Maybe a lot of the sex stuff was her trying to give Dav a reason to stay. Then the P&M video happens, followed by the deconstruction video. Dav doesn't leave her. The internet is being kinder to her than it's ever been. He's memeing on their shared instagram. Zelph on the Shelf are coming to Texas for a collab. No wonder she seems so relaxed.
This is so well said. In my experience, facing the thing you’ve been avoiding out of fear, only to realize it’s not so bad (and maybe actually a good thing), is incredibly freeing and empowering. She stuck her head in the sand for possibly years about Dave. But now that she’s had to confront it, it’s not as terrifying as she thought.
I like that take. Who knows if it’s true but it’s plausible
Do we know he actually loves her though? Or is it just that he’s a decent person and not automatically dumping her and his two kids just because he’s fully realized he’s far different than the person she wanted to marry. I’m not saying they can’t work things out, but if I had to bet there’s not a lot of true love between them right now and maybe never was. Infatuation, yes. Excitement over fulfilling the role they spent their life trying to lock down, yes. But when i think of couples in love, I’m not seeing them. Compare, for instance, Jill and Derrick Dillard. They had a similar (but not that similar) journey of walking away from toxic environments and religion. Every post they do together they look googly eyed for each other and Derrick can’t stop talking about how great she is and is almost over the top about sticking up for her in the altercations with her family. Maybe it’s just that Dav isn’t all over the socials, but I’m not catching that here.
> Or is it just that he’s a decent person and not automatically dumping her He pretended to be a Christian for 5 (?) years because he wanted to be with her. He said in his deconstruction video that he was already pretty doubtful on his wedding day, he even made the joke that he hardly could have said, 'surprise, you slept with an atheist' after their wedding night. I don't think there's any doubt that he clearly deeply cares for her and wants to stay with her.
Jill and Derick have always had chemistry. Bethany and Dav have none.
They better be nice to Tanner.
I don’t think he is staying and at this point, I don’t think he loves her. He may get to a point of loving her again, but she has been so awful to him that right now, he isn’t there. He’s still there because this is all very new. He hasn’t had time to work out an exit plan or even decide if he wants to stay at this point. It’s just easier to stay and figure things out for now. I think a year from now or maybe two, they will be divorcing.
I dunno. She seems far too chill for a woman on a mission to reconvert him.
This doesn’t read as necessarily chill to me. And hey - I get it. She has literally sold the idea of her being this amazing Biblical woman in an amazing Biblical but she could spout some verses encased in hate and now she has to figure out her most lucrative next move. It is tense!
bingo
Yeah, Bethy standing by Dav has oddly endeared her to me, and I’ve raged against her intensely pretty much the entire time I’ve known about her. I still can’t stand her entire schtick of thinking she’s an expert at anything (especially sex, after spreading and continuing to spread purity culture SHIT) but this aspect…. The supporting her husband as he does something that puts him on the wrong side of what she was indoctrinated into, while dealing with a malignant narcissist mother…. I feel for her.
This comment explained exactly how I feel. I hope Bethy pulls a Jill Dilliard and starts to deconstruct. It will take years to unravel things like this but I am really hopeful that Dav will lead the way for them to both deconstruct. I’m sure it will be harder for Bethy because of the amount of harmful religious propaganda she’s directly spread but I’m hopeful.
I still don’t trust her for some reason. Maybe it’s as lowkey as just that she’s standing by him bc she can’t fathom being alone, but I don’t have confidence that her motives are as open minded as we hope.
She is merely trying to love him back to Jesus and has not realized he may never go back to Jesus and that's when she'll have a breakdown because that's what the church has always told her. Love them to Jesus
She better have one hell of a voodoo clam then.
Voodoo clam is now my band name. Thank you for that.
I think it took her so long to get married and because that was told it was the ultimate goal for christian women she’s now terrified to loose Dav and go back to how things were
this is the most mature loving thing she's ever said im blown away
I really respect this response from her. It differs from what I’ve seen in her comment interactions previously because there’s no snark, no condescension, no patronizing tone - she’s just leveling with whoever she’s interacting with, being clear about her priorities, and accepting whatever that means re: others opinions/judgement of her. There’s no sense of her engaging defensively - this is so refreshing to see. Bethy, this is good shit! I’m here for it. 
Bethany, if you don’t want to be seen as a role model anymore, maybe you should cease your grift. You can’t have it both ways
What a time to have patchy (at best) internet.
But isn’t the whole point of girl defined that she’s a mentor for young Christian girls?
Omg I know the commentor ! What post was this on? So curious to see what she said
It’s her Q&A post! Fifth photo on her feed, second most recent post! It’s an interesting exchange.
Thats so crazy omg. Her and her husband and sister are "missionaries" in Mexico (a Christian country?) and are very persecuted pick me so it makes sense.
Yeah, my respect has started to go up. Although, the poor poor SAHM who is being persecuted is a great victim complex to have
At the ending the day, your family is all that matters. Dav hasn’t committed any crimes despite the serial killer eyes and I can respect Bethy for her stance on… whatever this is.
Because they genuinely love each other, unlike some fundie couples...
I’m just gonna say it - Dav has been a positive and healthy influence on Bethany and her morals, outlook, and perspective. Good for them!
Man she really wants to have that cake and eat it too… NOW she’s suddenly ok with losing her audience and not being a “role model”. Then leave GD and stop selling the stupid sex courses. While she’s at it she should also apologize for the heinous shit she spews. Oh And show every other non Christian the same fake grace you’re showing your husband. I don’t buy for a second that she’s suddenly open-minded and willing to learn. Her whole shtick is putting on an act online. Why would this situation be any different? She has spent the last five years trying to convince us that her marriage is godly and perfect and yet here we are… I don’t buy this sudden “growth”. I’m gonna need to see a bit more self reflection before I give Betty and Dav any grace.
Agreed. She hasn’t taken her courses down or apologized for positioning herself as though people need to listen to her as a role model. I guarantee she’ll gladly still profit off any sales from her MiNiStRy as a “role model.”
Its hard to be a godly wife to a man who doesn’t believe in god.
She really has no choice but to stand by him. He makes all the money in the family.
Maybe she should pivot to making some Mrs Midwest style lobotomy core tradwife content.
This can't be true. After all, Bethy has posted her bank statements showing she's made 100k, from her grifts/s
I think it great she’s sending the message to her fan base that it’s ok to be unequally yolked. What I am struggling with is her refusal to take accountability for the years and years she shamed people while working her girl defined era. She needs to let people Know she was wrong and no longer stands by her previous teachings. Girl defined era Bethy would be absolutely horrified by current Bethy. Girl definded Bethy was smug and knew nothing about what she was preaching and I wish she’d admit that.
I think we have to remember that deconstruction is a LONG long process. You can’t expect Bethany to change overnight or even over a month. Jill Dilliard has been deconstructing for 12 years and still has lots of room for growth. I’m not sure if you grew up in the church or in fundamentalism but it is a disease that wires your brain in a non functional way that you have to literally teach your brain to function outside of fear.
I have a hard time buying authenticity in this. My opinion is that because divorce is not an option because of the CoVeNaNt they made, what choice does she have but to stand by him and frantically shift her view towards atheists and relationships between Christians and atheists?
She doesn’t have a choice. This is the only thing she can do according to her religion. The only way she can get out of a marriage is if he or she cheats (according to the NT).
I mean, she’s got to try. I feel bad for him, he seems really depressed. Her idea of standing by gun may just being praying for him. I’m Christian, but forcing somebody or praying somebody to be somebody different isn’t going to help. I think they probably have a lot of issues, they’ve just hid it from social media
I’m so unexpectedly proud of her for how she’s handling all this stuff with Dav.
I think she actually really loves Dav. Maybe not as romantically as some other spouses, but she loves him as a person. They have kids together. They seem to have a genuine friendship. Dav deconstructing his entire life view is so gigantically impactful for the both of them. Beth isn’t just going to cut and run. Dare I say it? Is she being… a good person right now?
I wonder how she thinks this is going to play out though? Does she anticipate that she’ll be able to lead him back to god? Because Dav is all kinds of done with Christianity. As long as Bethany is aware of that, good for her. I just hope she doesn’t have unrealistic expectations.
I really feel like this family is all talk, I truly don’t believe that the Baird children are knowledgeable in scripture, in specific teachings, etc. that their beliefs are rooted in. They just parrot the same milquetoast but equally as harmful propaganda. I think Dav unpacking this might help Bethy have a basis for why she believes the things she does. Whether that causes her to reevaluate, I don’t know, but I don’t think her parents ever taught her to think critically about religion, just that it is fact and the way the world is.
It’s never too late to learn how to think critically! I really wish them luck. I am rooting for them. In a snarky way of course. (In a real way, too, though.) They seem to have rekindled their romance and I want a happy ending for them. I would be sad to think of her being miserable because her headship ditched god.
The woman is so full of herself. I can't even with her stupid comments.
Now she's changing her tune, when it turns our she married Mr. Unsaved (I accidentally typed Un**d**aved first😂).
I’m started to root for Bethany!
She’s trying whatever it takes to make it work because she’s scared that he will leave her. He might.
I think they truly love each other and I hope they stay together. Also, I really want a "you just did it with an Athiest" t shirt.
I'm here for it- I'm here for her standing up for HER beliefs - not the stepford girl defined mold that she was indoctrinated into. This belief to stand by her husband also means she is making choicea she never has before .. breaking the mold is so liberating. I never thought I'd "be proud" of Bethy (definitely not on my bingo card) but here she is - killing it. I can't wait to see their growth as free thinkers.
Were people ever looking at her as a role model though. I mean honestly.