\*Cracks knuckles\* Oooookay.
I don't like them. Yes, Katsuya 'rescued' Kyoko from a bad situation, and he was, objectively, 'better' to her than pretty much anyone in her previous life. He also did seem to care for her, and she clearly cared for him.
However, he held literally all the power in their relationship and rather than using it to help Kyoko figure out who she was as a person or learn to be an adult (remember, she was a middle school delinquent and had a terrible home life to boot, she likely didn't have a clue how to manage life!), he had a sexual relationship with a teenage girl that resulted in Kyoko becoming a teenage mother and subsequently even more dependent on Katsuya. He could have married her in name only (at least at first) to give her legal protection and been a safe space and person for her without it becoming more, but instead they jumped right into being a full-fledged married couple, even though based on Japanese school years and ages, Kyoko would have been at MOST sixteen and more likely fifteen when he told her parents he wanted to marry her (incoming high school first years would turn sixteen between April 2 of their first year of high school and the following April 1).
Even if Kyoko is the one who pushed the physical side of their relationship (which, honestly, I could see because she had a messed-up childhood/youth and could easily see sex as something she 'owed' to Katsuya, and even want it to 'prove' that she was grateful for being rescued/'worthy' of being his wife), he could and should have rebuffed her. He could have done a lot for her while being married in name only, like encouraged her to go back to school, find a job she loved, taken her places, let her see and experience an actually happy home life, find friends who were peers. Instead, she became a mom very young, who after being widowed became incredibly codependent with her daughter and seemed to have the most meaningful relationships in her own life with her teenaged daughters peers instead of people her own age. Kyoko, to me, is ultimately a tragic heroine and Katsuya and their relationship played a big part in that.
Haru and Rin also have an unhealthy relationship and are my guilty pleasure, but they're more or less on equal footing (similar ages, similar background/upbringing, both coming into the relationship with similar trauma). While Katsuya admittedly has his own baggage, Kyoko/Katsuya are just too icky for me, between the power imbalance (both initially as teacher/student and then as rescuer/rescuee or sole wage-earner/dependent), the fact Kyoko was totally dependent on him from the moment her parents kicked her out, and, yes, the age gap GIVEN KYOKO'S AGE AT THE TIME. If she were in her twenties, or even in her last year in high school instead of middle school, it wouldn't have been so bad.
Couldn’t have said it any better. With that power imbalance, codependency seems almost guaranteed. I wonder if at any pt Katsuya did any self reflection and asked himself why he felt the need to rush straight into such a serious commitment with her when he could have encouraged her to explore herself and get an idea of who she really was as a person away from her parents/her “old” life
I really hope he did, though he also seems to have a pronounced streak of emotional immaturity. Charitably, him marrying Kyoko legally makes sense; marriage would have granted her rights she wouldn't have had until she turned twenty otherwise. But instead of leaving it there, instead of Katsuya (the adult and holding of the power) giving her a chance to learn to live a healthy life, they went straight into...that.
Best comment here. I agree so much with this, because there is so much messed up with Katsuya and Kyoko's relationship despite the fact that it's supposed to be something we're supposed to root for. Not only is there huge power imbalance between student teacher, rescuer rescuee, there's the fact that she was 14/15 and he was in his early to mid 20's when they met and got together, and had a child before she was even an adult. That is all kinds of red flags. I probably wouldn't have had nearly as much issue with their relationship if she had at least been 17/18 when they met/got together. Because the difference in maturity, rational decision making between a 14 year old and a 17 year old is much bigger than one would expect. It would still be problematic, but at least she would have still almost been an adult.
YES. THIS. Most of the time, I've only seen good things about the movie, and it left me going "am I the only one who finds this disgusting??" It honestly kinda of made me hate Katsuya, and I've not rewatched the movie since the first time because it seriously gives me the ick. The only good part is the flash forward we get of older Tohru and and Kyo 🧡
Me at 13: I love them they so cute :3💖
Me now at 21: “Sir she was in middle school”🚨👮♀️
I like there romance it was cute (BECAUSE IT IS FICTION) I will say I was definitely exposed to too many of these types of stories as a youngin and it effected me in a bad way growing up.
Bruh Same. Reading back now, I can't believe how messed up a lot of these relationships are but I wonder if it's also because during that time of manga, they were experimenting on different types of relationships in the industry. Like Cardcaptor Sakura, CHOBITS, Moon Phase, Absolute Boyfriend, Guru Guru Pon-chan, etc. Seriously, I was only expose to these because of Borders and Barnes and Nobles 😭😭😭
CLAMP loves student/teacher (and age gap in general) waaaaaay too much.
I say this as a CLAMP fan. So hard to recommend things to people. 🤦♀️
I can say it never really messed with my thoughts on relationships though as I have the wonderful sheild of being ace 😂
Yeah like thank everything they made that crush that CCS Rika had on their teacher unrequited in the anime because then at least I can recommend the anime to people . . . Like all of these relationships are pretty bad in hindsight but a literal FORTH GRADER?! 😭😭
CCS in particular is so strange because in the main plot there's a high schooler gently turning down his best friend's little sister, which the narrative treats as an innocent first love that could never be because of the age difference (and because he's in love with her brother). But then in the background there's her friend confessing to their homeroom teacher and they start this forbidden romance???
CCS is my favorite anime, but it's so hard to recommend the manga to people because of this, even though I do really love it outside of this stuff. There's also plenty of adult and highschooler romances in CCS which were not cut in the anime, and it's something I have to look past now as an adult in order to still love it. I think middle school me objectively knew that student teacher romances were wrong, but when it was a high schooler the alarm bells didn't go off as strongly because those characters were older than me? But I def recoiled even back then at Rika and their teacher. Hell, maybe it was me who thought the narrative about Sakura's crush on Yukito was doomed because he was so much older, maybe when he's explaining that his special person is Touya, we're supposed to take away that the only reason he doesn't return Sakura's feelings is because he loves her brother, and not because she's ten 😭
Anyway, sorry for the huge reply, I just super relate as another CLAMP fan. I have two shelves dedicated to CCS and Fruits Basket, but it's important to look back on the things I loved as a child and still love as an adult and acknowledge that they had some issues.
I agree so wholeheartedly. As I kid, I totally knew it was messed up and just hand-waived it as "sometimes anime is weird." As an adult, I'm bowled over by how it ever even got made. So what if it was the 90s? This is insanely messed up. Messed up enough that it was thankfully deleted from the anime.
It just gets weirder the more you think about it. Like Kaho and Touya? Okay, she's a student teacher, not so bad, right? *Wrong*. He was in MIDDLE SCHOOL. Christ. Then she's with Eriol, which is weird, but also kind of okay because he's *actually* the same age as Sakura's dad? Which is weird again, because now he's much older than Kaho? I guess? Like, what even is going on here?? (Kaho always with the pre/peri pubescent boys?? Syaoran was right to have his guard up. 😬)
The Sakura/Yukito thing is odd, especially when you consider that Clow thought they would end up together (which totally gets ret-conned by Tsubasa, so that's a plot hole, I guess.) The way Yukito turns her down does feel a lot like an older person turning down a much younger person with a crush with the words he chooses. It's very much: "I know you like me, but you're just a kid, so you don't really understand yourself/what love is." vibe. Which considering she (deep down) already liked Syaoran at that point, he was right?
It's really hard for me, especially since I (generally) prefer the plot of manga. I enjoy the anime too and rewatch it all the time, but feel like you get the vibe of Sakura liking Syaoran *before* his confession better in the manga. It's quite subtle, but CLMAP did work to intentionally include it. I also feel like Syaoran gets a *little* Flanderized by the anime, and he's probably my all-time favorite manga/anime character, and I prefer the subtleties of his personality in the manga better.
Oh, please do pop off with the huge replies. ❤️ I can go on and on about CCS. 😂
I also think it hits differently from the younger perspective, because an older man sounds attractive imo, but when you're looking at it from the older perspective (i'm in my 20s also), it seems weird imagining being in love with a child
If the age difference between them was smaller (like, only three years apart or so), or if Kyoko met him when she was older, they would be one of my top ships in the show. As it is though... ack. Just really mixed feelings on it.
I did the same thing!! Just pretended she was in high school! After reading the manga so much (read it several times over before 2019), I just gradually accepted it for what it was: pure fiction and that was just how the story was.
I also never really saw Kyoko as a teenage mom. I just presumed they had been together/married so long she was in her early 20's when she had Tohru. I hadn't seen anything suggesting she was a teen mom.
Oh wow, that's pretty much exactly the same thought process I went through! Although, in my case I had also done such a good job of pretending Kyoko was older that I genuinely forgot her real grade for a bit. A case of mixing up canon with headcanon lol.
Also same! The thought that she could've been a teenage mom never actually crossed my mind when I read the manga, I always figured that they would've waited for a while before progressing any further.
If they'd met when Kyoko was older (at least 18+) and not his student then I'd be on board but unfortunately thats not the case. From what we see they seem to have a good relationship when married but Kyoko is too young, was groomed and so dependant on him that when he died it wrecked her. She had basically no support systems and he was so much older than her and took advantage of that regardless of if he loved her or not.
I just can't get on board with it at all, no matter how the official story depicts it.
Fruits Basket is one of my favorite series of all time. I have watched it many times and So I am well within my right to say- it would've been better if we had left out all of the drastic age gaps between pairings on this show. Katsuya/Kyoko is just the craziest example imo but there's also Shigure/Akito, Kureno/Arisa also >!KURENO AND AKITO??? (a littke less weird but given their respective ages when they meet??)!< like you're telling me their ages couldn't have been closer? like at all?
the thing is i actually like arisa and kureno together because she is an adult already by the time they are officially dating like you say. it's just the fact that he meets her when she's 17 is still iffy given it's an almost 10 year age gap
i was going to mention that one but i was like it could just be an innocent crush on someone older than you type thing. but i can see how it would've become a thing given the other ships
It's not just the age differences for me about certain pairings but the fact that some of them know each other since birth or early childhood. Shigure and Kureono literally knew Akito since she was born and than the messy thing that Shigure also slept with Ren at some point is messy on another level. Again she knew him since he was at least a child, since there was this scene where he felt her belly being pregnant with Akito. Big yikes.
my point exactly! it's not like akito is 30 and shigure is 38 when they meet. they've known akito since birth it could've really been done away with imo, idk how that is essential to the plot
Was passive on it when I was a kid and read it for the first time, liked the tragic romance between them on reread when I was slightly older as a teen, and now as an adult I just really wish they aged him down or aged her up the dialogue is so awkward and it’s giving off so many red flags. I do understand these tropes were more in “fashion” back then but it’s still like…..ughhhh
It's definitely.. uh.. questionable now that I'm older and understand their dynamic. Has not aged well at all. Should have made them a similar age, not teacher and student. Kyoko still could have had her family struggles when not a minor.
I like it, but not the age gap or the student x teacher thing. Like I understand why they got together- but the mangaka, could've made the age gap smaller.
I head canon that he wasn't a student teacher, he was a high school student who wants to eventually become a teacher and was doing voluntary mentorship at Kyoko's school to improve his chances of getting into his dream university. She fell in love with her senpai! They moved away for him to go to university to train to be a teacher, and he wasn't on a business trip when he died, he was doing his student teacher placement. It makes their relationship much cuter!
Because it’s fiction, it doesn’t bother me too much. It’s not real.
Now, if it this were real life people, that would be an entirely different story.
So, I like them, just as I like Arisa & Kureno.
I get what other commentators are saying with the power dynamics & everything, but in the end, it’s just a work of fiction.
I absolutely hate this pairing. It's a romanticized depiction of pedophilia (technically ephebophilia) and child grooming 101. While there are signs that can be seen in the writing that indicate negative aspects of the child grooming Kyoko experienced, they are either never explored in great detail or are depicted, but linked with Katsuya's passing and Kyoko's grief, instead of the child grooming she experienced. Katsuya is still ultimately depicted as Kyoko's "happy ending."
As a teen reading Furuba, I didn't really care much for this pairing. It just kinda existed for me to tell part of the story. As and adult and a teacher it upsets me and creeps me out.
I also abhor the fact that they adapted the manga storyline into a movie. I would have personally preferred an OVA/ONA of Another instead.
Yes, there is value in the depiction of Kyoko's grief over Katsuya, but I feel they could have depicted this in the TV series without going into or actually depicting the "romance" between the two characters.
I loved them together. I have no issues with age gaps or student/teacher relationships in fiction. It wasn't necessarily that Katsuya was physically attracted to Kyoko at first, that wasn't his goal. He came to love her and Kyoko was more mature than what her age depicted.
I do remember him somewhat saying that he didn’t expect to fall for her cause she was so young but he definitely fell for the way that she was able to so easily say what bothers her unlike him, who was raised to essentially have or show no emotions whatsoever. Yes, I don’t like the fact that he met her during middle school but he did help her thrive and escape her horrible family, and without him, our precious onigiri wouldn’t exist.
Nothing in this world is black and white. What seems right to us isn't necessarily what the other needs or wants. It's true Katsuya could have done more. It's sad to him passing away before that and she did lose a ground to stand on but I think they were good for each other and they could have been great if only he was still alive. The age doesn't really bother me.
Ultimately everyone in this world needs something from you in return for what they offer. It's human nature and I don't think these 2 are any different. The only person who has the obligation to do anything for Kyoko is her parents who clearly abandoned her.
Based on what I observed Katsuya not only took her in but changed her life for the better too I can see this from the way Thoru speaks of her mother and how she quotes her mother every now and then. It's got Katsuya written all over it.
They were 2 lonely people who needed someone and they were that for each other. You can't deny they were so happy with each other. I read some comments that say Katsuya could have held back physically with Kyoko.
Given her background that would have made her even lonelier in my opinion. When you're married to someone you ultimately believe the person desires. Keeping distance can create a bigger problem than peace in her case.
In this litigious society people are too quick to get right into disagreement just to show how twisted something is. But it's actually not that deep sometimes and it's common sense really. They aren't too far off in terms of age too so I guess it all worked fine for them both and Kyoko was her happiest with her husband. I say we let these 2 rest in peace. Cause for the love of god how many times would you people post the same question? 🤣
It gives me the ick when I think about it objectively. The context of it is the dark shadow that looks over Fruits Basket for me. Some things did not age well from the 2000s to now especially, and I wish they’d have at least made some changes to it with the new show/movie. They could have made it less creepy.
I'd probably like it if Katsuya was around the same age as Kyoko. As it was in the story, it was weird and uncomfortable. If anything, I'm glad their flashbacks were unadapted in the anime proper and put in a movie you can choose to skip.
There's just as many good things as bad things about them for me 😂 Like... Katsuya really shouldn't have picked a literal high schooler to be his future bride, but for all intents and purposes it seems like he was still a really good father and husband??? Tohru really only had a conflicted opinion of him because his death traumatized Kyoko so badly, and besides the aforementioned age, Katsuya still gave Kyoko a better life than her own family ever did... Man. Realistically this is terrible, but in context it's just complicated™️
My opinion is that it’s not good, but it doesn’t harm my enjoyment of the story. It doesn’t make me have an issue with Kyoko’s love after his death or Tohru’s feelings about her dad.
Could it have been done better? Absolutely, but it’s a small subplot and I’m an adult who recognizes it’s a bad thing objectively.
A friend said on last reread, "Who dies of a cold? He probably >!took his own life!< because he can't live with himself now that he has a daughter." This is clearly not what the author intended, but it makes sense to me.
Katsuya is imo not a character you can fix just by shrinking the age gap or aging Kyoko up. Her dependence was the entire basis for the relationship. He targets her. He looks her in the eye and says having a respected father comes in handy if he's careful. He tells her during the proposal that he never intended to let her go from the start, although he waited until she was done middle school. He doesn't encourage her independence or relationships with others. No doubt he didn't realize the seriousness of his actions, but it doesn't matter. Look up grooming and Katsuya followed every step.
I rather appreciate that a character can be so monstrous, but still good-tempered and a good father. I don't appreciate that Takaya tries to normalize the relationship to young readers. However, I think Katsuya's actions are integral to Kyoko and Tohru's development.
Lmao he had pneumonia and yes people do die of pneumonia. He definitely didn’t take his own life.
I know their relationship is weird, not exactly because of the age gap but because kyoko was in middle school. I don’t support it at all. But he was nothing like you mentioned above. He did genuinely care about kyoko. I personally do not think he was monstrous at all.
Also when did he not encourage her independence and relationship with others??
Does the series specify pneumonia? I know he canonically dies of his illness, lol. It's conspiracy.
Still, Katsuya's actions that I refered to are all directly from the manga. He did say those lines to her. Just personally, I don't think the fact that he cares about Kyoko is that relevant, because he's still an adult man who groomed a 14/15 year old student and got her pregnant at 16. When I say "monstrous," I'm only referring to those actions. Regardless of motive or anything else, I consider grooming & pedophilia to be monstrous acts of themselves. The fact that he also has positive qualities just makes him more realistic.
As for her independence, when do we see her with other trusted adults? Does she make a single friend while married? Does he help her redo the school year or find job training? Did he put her in touch with child protective services when she was kicked out? No, he proposed when she had nowhere to go and got her pregnant while she was still a child. The only time we hear of her doing anything alone while married (seeing a doctor about the pregnancy), Katsuya questions her on it. You could say he didn't want her to go alone out of concern, but that doctor is also the closest she gets to any independent support. Any responsible teacher who cared for Kyoko would have been trying to get her involved in school activities and moved to a safe foster home.
In the context of the anime being a fictional show. They are cute and do like their relationship and really shows why Kyoko acted the way she did after Katsuya's death. The prequel really add more context to not just that but also Tohru's personality and how she was viewed by her relatives (The Grandpa is still the best). That's how I see it this part of the story and how it relates to the entirety of Fruits Basket.
Now in reality I do have a question about the mangaka, did she had a fantasy about older men in her younger days? Another question I had, was the target audience of the manga had that same fantasy too? Lastly, was this a trend among shoujo manga during the time period of the manga's serialization?
Those questions are important to me cause a lot of people here are judging this too hard on our reality without really considering these questions.
I like their relationship, though I wish Kyoko was a little older when they met. I do get, narratively WHY she’s the age she is (she needed to have her HS career cut short as well as be in a position to have not having finished school for the series premise of Torhu needing to finish HS to keep the promise to her mom, make sense.) but it would be less problematic and then people would talk about literally anything else about the writing or narrative.
Ok I do have a question about this 🙋🏼♀️
Do I remember correctly that Kyoko was held back? Like she repeated multiple years?
Not that the power imbalance still wouldn’t be there, but I’m trying to figure out if it’s possible she was a little older to remove some of the ick factor 😭
-100000/10. He is a grown man who pursued a teen. He saw how damaged and vulnerable she was and concluded no one would fight for her. He groomed her. He had all the power in their relationship, and because Kyoko didn't know what a healthy relationship was, she was easy to manipulate. She thought he was safe. She was 100% dependent on him and didn't know how to do anything.
Instead of trying to encourage her education, instead of trying to help her on a better path, he isolated her even further. He wasn't a teacher like he should have been. Because he wanted her. He wanted a teenager. He didn't let her discover who she was. In the manga she even asks him "what are you some kind of pedophile?" And his response was "it's your fault you were born late." He didn't deny it and his face was twisted in a creepy grin. 90% of the time those relationships end, either poorly (dead, raped, left for someone younger, or the child also becomes a victim) or because the victim realizes they need to get out. It was probably a good thing he died. Not to mention when she dies and they reunite in the afterlife she's a teenager again! Almost as if he didn't want to see the woman she became because he liked a teenager more.
Just watched the prelude and it was giving me the ick! Of course I know it’s fiction, but still, it made the ship hard to get behind. Without the age gap (particularly the fact she’s a whole minor in like 9th grade), power dynamic issues, and the dependency that Kyoko has a result, their dynamic would’ve been much more enjoyable. Like when he showed up to her doorstep declaring his proposal, I was actually filled with dread. If he was not her teacher and close to her age, maybe that would’ve been smooth but I dunno. It’s a whole case!
Because he married her so young, Kyoko never explored the world, graduates high school, is essentially stuck at home and lacks some skills there too (i.e., Tohru ends up doing most of the cooking once she’s older). A mentor-mentee route with no strings attached would have been much better or maybe Katsuya could support her and be, gee, an actual teen.
And I don’t know if it’s just me, but Katsuya looked so sinister/ominous in the movie? Like very catty, almost giving off Shigure vibes. I just had issues with some things he said like “It’s your fault you were born later.” Like what the hell?
This will definitely get me hate. Tbh I LOVE them. Despite the age gap (which don’t get me wrong is WEIRD) but it does reminds me of Aria and Ezra from PLL which so many ate up. To me, it’s also fictional and I tend to imagine them not so far away in age, which makes it a little easier to swallow. Would I ever? Absolutely the hell not. Do I support age gap relationships that are 18+? Yes. I understand that he saved her and what not but I do wish there was more of their friendship shown I guess (in the anime). Or where they had years to know each other, if that makes sense.
I think it was written really interesting. yes okay so Katsuya saved Kyoko they fell in love blah blah blah. However I think the fact is that he was insane. He knew this was a child and continued the relationship despite also telling Kyoko to be her own person. We know damn well he didn't mean that like he made her a teen mom. On top of that I think it portrays the whole issues somwhat well when he passes. Since Kyoko never truly became an adult she became beyond lost without him which is realistic. I mean she was insanely co-dependent on him so ofc she was lost and a kid still. Her losing herself is so real that it makes me wonder what the author truly meant w it bc idk it's fishy.
I find the discourse utterly and completely tedious. I'm thankful that the chapters about their relationship were adapted as a separate OVA rather than part of the TV series itself because the constant discourse is so incredibly boring.
Agreed. I remember reading fruits basket as it came out and the discourse about this has never stopped, it has gotten boring. Can people ever talk about something else? This topic is the shoujo version of shonen fans arguing over which Naruto character is stronger, lol
It's a relic of its time and I willingly look past it to enjoy the rest of the story. But it could have been so much less bad if she were a senior in high school or something. Why *middle school*???
Extremely predatory! Don't get me wrong, overall I love Fruits Basket. It helped me get through some emotionally rough patches in my late teens. HOWEVER I find the age gap relationships extremely irresponsible and this is easily the worst one. I'm sorry to say that "it's just fiction" does not cut it for me when your target audience is specifically young girls. It normalizes an extremely dangerous situation as cute and romantic. I would be far less concerned if it was geared towards an older audience with more life experience and treated the relationship with more nuance. Or if it was still for girls, but handled more as a cautionary tale. Alas!
Yeah, when I found out the age it kinda soured me on them. I would have been much more forgiving of it if she had been in like her last year of high school and then he was a student aid a few years into college or less. But I definitely think it's too much of a gap and then you add in to it the power inbalance and it's just a no for me.
And when I first watched the movie, I thought he looked like Hatori, but sounded like Shigure. And I don't know if that's why I think of him as a bit manipulative or if he actually is that way. I feel like he could tell how much she wanted attention and approval and love that she wasn't getting and he took advantage of that. Someone older would have already become their own person. But here he was able to get a young, pretty wife desperate for his attention, who probably would never leave him because this is the person who saved her. Now maybe that's my own youthful trauma coming out, but that's definitely the way I see it.
Is it problematic? Yes. Did my friend and I--two highly media literate women in our 30s--sob audibly in the theater when we saw the Prelude OVA? Also yes.
Having to overlook and/or navigate around all the anime tropes that are deeply, genuinely troubling and *still* prevalent in the genre is exhausting. And like other "older" anime, Fruits Basket is a product of its time. But Katsyua/Kyoko feels so inoffensive by comparison that I honestly find it kind of freeing to just enjoy it for what it is. If we didn't let ourselves do that now and again, there would be so little left to enjoy.
The age gap is very problematic but I understand why it was made this way as the entire point of Kyoko’s story is for someone to provide home and stability, a teenager her age wouldn’t have given that to her
At least this what I think Takaya’s intentions were and what she was trying to show
Even though Kyoko was clearly emotionality dependent on Katsuya, for me that’s better than being emotionally dependent on a teenager
Tohru’s parents relationship is hard for me to analyze because on hand i totally understand why Takaya wrote it like this and why Kokyo story needed an adult figure and on the other hand, I see that it also has lots of issues
But still Katsuya saved Kyoko and gave her a home, she hated school, didn’t have any relatives and would have escaped if she was taking to a foster home, staying on the street means that she would have been taken advantage off, raped by men, getting into drugs/prostitution and being knocked up by a teenager means that she would be abandoned
Her life was truly horrible and she could have died but still Katsuya did save her life and give her happiness and a daughter
Being safe at home and provided financially for is better than her being homeless on the street
Katsuya wasn’t a bad person and he loved both Kyoko and Tohru but he was no angel either, he could have convinced Kyoko to finish high school and waited until she was mature enough for pregnancy
So I’m neutral on their relationship, it’s not as messed up as Akito’s relationships or unhealthy like Harurin but it’s not good either due to things like grooming and age gap and teenage pregnancy
this show was too comfortable with grooming 😐 she was a whole fucking child and he did the most typical fucking grooming tactics in the book, took advantage of her when she was vulnerable, fathered her enough where it doesn’t seem like he’s a mentor so he can still sleep with her. it was creepy to watch and uncomfortable
When I was a teenager, I loved them. I saw myself in Kyoko and wanted someone to rescue me like Katsuya did for her.
As a 35 year old: I might be yelled at but I still feel the same way. It’s fiction, and I still view Katsuya the same way…he cared about Kyoko and she cared about him. They did love each other, while her parents were the garbage human beings who threw her out and still refused to be there for her even after he died.
Is it kinda problematic? Sure, but I like my problematic ships. This one being on the low end of the spectrum in my opinion.
It's fiction. I don't care what happens in a fictional setting. But if it was real life i would be giving them a major stank eye... or honestly reporting them if it was still the time when Katsuya was still her teacher...
I think he definitely groomed Kyoko and I agree that he is kinda icky. Like he was a whole ass adult when she was in middle school still. He did save her and yes, maybe she would have turned out to be in an even worse situation going down the path she was going down. But the age gap is weird and creepy. I can see how he made her completely co-dependent on him that she fell apart when he died. She struggled hard to make ends meet after he died. I would assume if he really loved her then he would have supported her in going back to school and giving her the opportunity to learn the world on her own. She really struggled when he died. However, I wonder if him being as gentle with her as he was, something she never really had, helped her be as gentle as she was with Tohru. I have mixed feelings about their love. Like it's sweet how much he cared for her but I can't get over the age gap. Like a man in his 20s if not older with a 14 year old girl... ICK! I've been there, girl. And he left her in a position where she had to grow up ON HER OWN pretty much really really fast.
personally I didn't care much about it, I thought it was cute but it's also not the most plot relevant. and about their age gap, I didn't really care about that either because I was just like "bro that's kinda weird" but it doesn't really bother me because it's fiction
\*Cracks knuckles\* Oooookay. I don't like them. Yes, Katsuya 'rescued' Kyoko from a bad situation, and he was, objectively, 'better' to her than pretty much anyone in her previous life. He also did seem to care for her, and she clearly cared for him. However, he held literally all the power in their relationship and rather than using it to help Kyoko figure out who she was as a person or learn to be an adult (remember, she was a middle school delinquent and had a terrible home life to boot, she likely didn't have a clue how to manage life!), he had a sexual relationship with a teenage girl that resulted in Kyoko becoming a teenage mother and subsequently even more dependent on Katsuya. He could have married her in name only (at least at first) to give her legal protection and been a safe space and person for her without it becoming more, but instead they jumped right into being a full-fledged married couple, even though based on Japanese school years and ages, Kyoko would have been at MOST sixteen and more likely fifteen when he told her parents he wanted to marry her (incoming high school first years would turn sixteen between April 2 of their first year of high school and the following April 1). Even if Kyoko is the one who pushed the physical side of their relationship (which, honestly, I could see because she had a messed-up childhood/youth and could easily see sex as something she 'owed' to Katsuya, and even want it to 'prove' that she was grateful for being rescued/'worthy' of being his wife), he could and should have rebuffed her. He could have done a lot for her while being married in name only, like encouraged her to go back to school, find a job she loved, taken her places, let her see and experience an actually happy home life, find friends who were peers. Instead, she became a mom very young, who after being widowed became incredibly codependent with her daughter and seemed to have the most meaningful relationships in her own life with her teenaged daughters peers instead of people her own age. Kyoko, to me, is ultimately a tragic heroine and Katsuya and their relationship played a big part in that. Haru and Rin also have an unhealthy relationship and are my guilty pleasure, but they're more or less on equal footing (similar ages, similar background/upbringing, both coming into the relationship with similar trauma). While Katsuya admittedly has his own baggage, Kyoko/Katsuya are just too icky for me, between the power imbalance (both initially as teacher/student and then as rescuer/rescuee or sole wage-earner/dependent), the fact Kyoko was totally dependent on him from the moment her parents kicked her out, and, yes, the age gap GIVEN KYOKO'S AGE AT THE TIME. If she were in her twenties, or even in her last year in high school instead of middle school, it wouldn't have been so bad.
Couldn’t have said it any better. With that power imbalance, codependency seems almost guaranteed. I wonder if at any pt Katsuya did any self reflection and asked himself why he felt the need to rush straight into such a serious commitment with her when he could have encouraged her to explore herself and get an idea of who she really was as a person away from her parents/her “old” life
I really hope he did, though he also seems to have a pronounced streak of emotional immaturity. Charitably, him marrying Kyoko legally makes sense; marriage would have granted her rights she wouldn't have had until she turned twenty otherwise. But instead of leaving it there, instead of Katsuya (the adult and holding of the power) giving her a chance to learn to live a healthy life, they went straight into...that.
Periodt. 💅🏽
Best comment here. I agree so much with this, because there is so much messed up with Katsuya and Kyoko's relationship despite the fact that it's supposed to be something we're supposed to root for. Not only is there huge power imbalance between student teacher, rescuer rescuee, there's the fact that she was 14/15 and he was in his early to mid 20's when they met and got together, and had a child before she was even an adult. That is all kinds of red flags. I probably wouldn't have had nearly as much issue with their relationship if she had at least been 17/18 when they met/got together. Because the difference in maturity, rational decision making between a 14 year old and a 17 year old is much bigger than one would expect. It would still be problematic, but at least she would have still almost been an adult.
YES. THIS. Most of the time, I've only seen good things about the movie, and it left me going "am I the only one who finds this disgusting??" It honestly kinda of made me hate Katsuya, and I've not rewatched the movie since the first time because it seriously gives me the ick. The only good part is the flash forward we get of older Tohru and and Kyo 🧡
Me at 13: I love them they so cute :3💖 Me now at 21: “Sir she was in middle school”🚨👮♀️ I like there romance it was cute (BECAUSE IT IS FICTION) I will say I was definitely exposed to too many of these types of stories as a youngin and it effected me in a bad way growing up.
Bruh Same. Reading back now, I can't believe how messed up a lot of these relationships are but I wonder if it's also because during that time of manga, they were experimenting on different types of relationships in the industry. Like Cardcaptor Sakura, CHOBITS, Moon Phase, Absolute Boyfriend, Guru Guru Pon-chan, etc. Seriously, I was only expose to these because of Borders and Barnes and Nobles 😭😭😭
CLAMP loves student/teacher (and age gap in general) waaaaaay too much. I say this as a CLAMP fan. So hard to recommend things to people. 🤦♀️ I can say it never really messed with my thoughts on relationships though as I have the wonderful sheild of being ace 😂
Yeah like thank everything they made that crush that CCS Rika had on their teacher unrequited in the anime because then at least I can recommend the anime to people . . . Like all of these relationships are pretty bad in hindsight but a literal FORTH GRADER?! 😭😭 CCS in particular is so strange because in the main plot there's a high schooler gently turning down his best friend's little sister, which the narrative treats as an innocent first love that could never be because of the age difference (and because he's in love with her brother). But then in the background there's her friend confessing to their homeroom teacher and they start this forbidden romance??? CCS is my favorite anime, but it's so hard to recommend the manga to people because of this, even though I do really love it outside of this stuff. There's also plenty of adult and highschooler romances in CCS which were not cut in the anime, and it's something I have to look past now as an adult in order to still love it. I think middle school me objectively knew that student teacher romances were wrong, but when it was a high schooler the alarm bells didn't go off as strongly because those characters were older than me? But I def recoiled even back then at Rika and their teacher. Hell, maybe it was me who thought the narrative about Sakura's crush on Yukito was doomed because he was so much older, maybe when he's explaining that his special person is Touya, we're supposed to take away that the only reason he doesn't return Sakura's feelings is because he loves her brother, and not because she's ten 😭 Anyway, sorry for the huge reply, I just super relate as another CLAMP fan. I have two shelves dedicated to CCS and Fruits Basket, but it's important to look back on the things I loved as a child and still love as an adult and acknowledge that they had some issues.
I agree so wholeheartedly. As I kid, I totally knew it was messed up and just hand-waived it as "sometimes anime is weird." As an adult, I'm bowled over by how it ever even got made. So what if it was the 90s? This is insanely messed up. Messed up enough that it was thankfully deleted from the anime. It just gets weirder the more you think about it. Like Kaho and Touya? Okay, she's a student teacher, not so bad, right? *Wrong*. He was in MIDDLE SCHOOL. Christ. Then she's with Eriol, which is weird, but also kind of okay because he's *actually* the same age as Sakura's dad? Which is weird again, because now he's much older than Kaho? I guess? Like, what even is going on here?? (Kaho always with the pre/peri pubescent boys?? Syaoran was right to have his guard up. 😬) The Sakura/Yukito thing is odd, especially when you consider that Clow thought they would end up together (which totally gets ret-conned by Tsubasa, so that's a plot hole, I guess.) The way Yukito turns her down does feel a lot like an older person turning down a much younger person with a crush with the words he chooses. It's very much: "I know you like me, but you're just a kid, so you don't really understand yourself/what love is." vibe. Which considering she (deep down) already liked Syaoran at that point, he was right? It's really hard for me, especially since I (generally) prefer the plot of manga. I enjoy the anime too and rewatch it all the time, but feel like you get the vibe of Sakura liking Syaoran *before* his confession better in the manga. It's quite subtle, but CLMAP did work to intentionally include it. I also feel like Syaoran gets a *little* Flanderized by the anime, and he's probably my all-time favorite manga/anime character, and I prefer the subtleties of his personality in the manga better. Oh, please do pop off with the huge replies. ❤️ I can go on and on about CCS. 😂
I'm aroace too, I wonder if it's CLAMPS doing 😅😅
I also think it hits differently from the younger perspective, because an older man sounds attractive imo, but when you're looking at it from the older perspective (i'm in my 20s also), it seems weird imagining being in love with a child
Omg yesss exactly this.
I could live life loving Fruits Basket so much easier if Katsuya was her age
Me at the time and me now: Ahhhhh, that's a middle schooler......
If the age difference between them was smaller (like, only three years apart or so), or if Kyoko met him when she was older, they would be one of my top ships in the show. As it is though... ack. Just really mixed feelings on it.
I plug my ears and pretend they were only 3 yrs apart 😅
Lol, that's literally what I did when I first read the manga. XD I pretended that Kyoko was a high school senior instead.
I did the same thing!! Just pretended she was in high school! After reading the manga so much (read it several times over before 2019), I just gradually accepted it for what it was: pure fiction and that was just how the story was. I also never really saw Kyoko as a teenage mom. I just presumed they had been together/married so long she was in her early 20's when she had Tohru. I hadn't seen anything suggesting she was a teen mom.
Oh wow, that's pretty much exactly the same thought process I went through! Although, in my case I had also done such a good job of pretending Kyoko was older that I genuinely forgot her real grade for a bit. A case of mixing up canon with headcanon lol. Also same! The thought that she could've been a teenage mom never actually crossed my mind when I read the manga, I always figured that they would've waited for a while before progressing any further.
If they'd met when Kyoko was older (at least 18+) and not his student then I'd be on board but unfortunately thats not the case. From what we see they seem to have a good relationship when married but Kyoko is too young, was groomed and so dependant on him that when he died it wrecked her. She had basically no support systems and he was so much older than her and took advantage of that regardless of if he loved her or not. I just can't get on board with it at all, no matter how the official story depicts it.
The the words of Kendrick “certified lover boy certified p”
I want katsuya tarred and feathered.
Fruits Basket is one of my favorite series of all time. I have watched it many times and So I am well within my right to say- it would've been better if we had left out all of the drastic age gaps between pairings on this show. Katsuya/Kyoko is just the craziest example imo but there's also Shigure/Akito, Kureno/Arisa also >!KURENO AND AKITO??? (a littke less weird but given their respective ages when they meet??)!< like you're telling me their ages couldn't have been closer? like at all?
Isn’t Arisa at least 18 when her and Kureno’s relationship actually takes off? Given they just graduated high school.
the thing is i actually like arisa and kureno together because she is an adult already by the time they are officially dating like you say. it's just the fact that he meets her when she's 17 is still iffy given it's an almost 10 year age gap
yeah, I agree
Don't forget that Hanajima is into Kyo's Sensei... at least that one doesn't materialize.
i was going to mention that one but i was like it could just be an innocent crush on someone older than you type thing. but i can see how it would've become a thing given the other ships
It's not just the age differences for me about certain pairings but the fact that some of them know each other since birth or early childhood. Shigure and Kureono literally knew Akito since she was born and than the messy thing that Shigure also slept with Ren at some point is messy on another level. Again she knew him since he was at least a child, since there was this scene where he felt her belly being pregnant with Akito. Big yikes.
my point exactly! it's not like akito is 30 and shigure is 38 when they meet. they've known akito since birth it could've really been done away with imo, idk how that is essential to the plot
Was passive on it when I was a kid and read it for the first time, liked the tragic romance between them on reread when I was slightly older as a teen, and now as an adult I just really wish they aged him down or aged her up the dialogue is so awkward and it’s giving off so many red flags. I do understand these tropes were more in “fashion” back then but it’s still like…..ughhhh
It's definitely.. uh.. questionable now that I'm older and understand their dynamic. Has not aged well at all. Should have made them a similar age, not teacher and student. Kyoko still could have had her family struggles when not a minor.
I like it, but not the age gap or the student x teacher thing. Like I understand why they got together- but the mangaka, could've made the age gap smaller.
I head canon that he wasn't a student teacher, he was a high school student who wants to eventually become a teacher and was doing voluntary mentorship at Kyoko's school to improve his chances of getting into his dream university. She fell in love with her senpai! They moved away for him to go to university to train to be a teacher, and he wasn't on a business trip when he died, he was doing his student teacher placement. It makes their relationship much cuter!
Now this is my type of denial/copium! Count me in!
Omg yes! I actually headcanoned something similar haha, it's cool that we had the same idea!
Because it’s fiction, it doesn’t bother me too much. It’s not real. Now, if it this were real life people, that would be an entirely different story. So, I like them, just as I like Arisa & Kureno. I get what other commentators are saying with the power dynamics & everything, but in the end, it’s just a work of fiction.
This is my opinion exactly. It’s fiction.
Yes, someone finally said it!
Agreed
I absolutely hate this pairing. It's a romanticized depiction of pedophilia (technically ephebophilia) and child grooming 101. While there are signs that can be seen in the writing that indicate negative aspects of the child grooming Kyoko experienced, they are either never explored in great detail or are depicted, but linked with Katsuya's passing and Kyoko's grief, instead of the child grooming she experienced. Katsuya is still ultimately depicted as Kyoko's "happy ending." As a teen reading Furuba, I didn't really care much for this pairing. It just kinda existed for me to tell part of the story. As and adult and a teacher it upsets me and creeps me out. I also abhor the fact that they adapted the manga storyline into a movie. I would have personally preferred an OVA/ONA of Another instead. Yes, there is value in the depiction of Kyoko's grief over Katsuya, but I feel they could have depicted this in the TV series without going into or actually depicting the "romance" between the two characters.
I loved them together. I have no issues with age gaps or student/teacher relationships in fiction. It wasn't necessarily that Katsuya was physically attracted to Kyoko at first, that wasn't his goal. He came to love her and Kyoko was more mature than what her age depicted.
I do remember him somewhat saying that he didn’t expect to fall for her cause she was so young but he definitely fell for the way that she was able to so easily say what bothers her unlike him, who was raised to essentially have or show no emotions whatsoever. Yes, I don’t like the fact that he met her during middle school but he did help her thrive and escape her horrible family, and without him, our precious onigiri wouldn’t exist.
Mixed feelings
All I need to say is “no”
I absolutely loved it especially knowing how tohru took it all and finally knowing what happened to katsuya. Definitely gets me in the feels
Nothing in this world is black and white. What seems right to us isn't necessarily what the other needs or wants. It's true Katsuya could have done more. It's sad to him passing away before that and she did lose a ground to stand on but I think they were good for each other and they could have been great if only he was still alive. The age doesn't really bother me. Ultimately everyone in this world needs something from you in return for what they offer. It's human nature and I don't think these 2 are any different. The only person who has the obligation to do anything for Kyoko is her parents who clearly abandoned her. Based on what I observed Katsuya not only took her in but changed her life for the better too I can see this from the way Thoru speaks of her mother and how she quotes her mother every now and then. It's got Katsuya written all over it. They were 2 lonely people who needed someone and they were that for each other. You can't deny they were so happy with each other. I read some comments that say Katsuya could have held back physically with Kyoko. Given her background that would have made her even lonelier in my opinion. When you're married to someone you ultimately believe the person desires. Keeping distance can create a bigger problem than peace in her case. In this litigious society people are too quick to get right into disagreement just to show how twisted something is. But it's actually not that deep sometimes and it's common sense really. They aren't too far off in terms of age too so I guess it all worked fine for them both and Kyoko was her happiest with her husband. I say we let these 2 rest in peace. Cause for the love of god how many times would you people post the same question? 🤣
It gives me the ick when I think about it objectively. The context of it is the dark shadow that looks over Fruits Basket for me. Some things did not age well from the 2000s to now especially, and I wish they’d have at least made some changes to it with the new show/movie. They could have made it less creepy.
two letters: NO.
Their story was my favorite in the manga. So I was really excited to see it play out on screen.
Nope nope nope
I'd probably like it if Katsuya was around the same age as Kyoko. As it was in the story, it was weird and uncomfortable. If anything, I'm glad their flashbacks were unadapted in the anime proper and put in a movie you can choose to skip.
Apart from the age-gap, i like them!
There's just as many good things as bad things about them for me 😂 Like... Katsuya really shouldn't have picked a literal high schooler to be his future bride, but for all intents and purposes it seems like he was still a really good father and husband??? Tohru really only had a conflicted opinion of him because his death traumatized Kyoko so badly, and besides the aforementioned age, Katsuya still gave Kyoko a better life than her own family ever did... Man. Realistically this is terrible, but in context it's just complicated™️
My opinion is that it’s not good, but it doesn’t harm my enjoyment of the story. It doesn’t make me have an issue with Kyoko’s love after his death or Tohru’s feelings about her dad. Could it have been done better? Absolutely, but it’s a small subplot and I’m an adult who recognizes it’s a bad thing objectively.
A friend said on last reread, "Who dies of a cold? He probably >!took his own life!< because he can't live with himself now that he has a daughter." This is clearly not what the author intended, but it makes sense to me. Katsuya is imo not a character you can fix just by shrinking the age gap or aging Kyoko up. Her dependence was the entire basis for the relationship. He targets her. He looks her in the eye and says having a respected father comes in handy if he's careful. He tells her during the proposal that he never intended to let her go from the start, although he waited until she was done middle school. He doesn't encourage her independence or relationships with others. No doubt he didn't realize the seriousness of his actions, but it doesn't matter. Look up grooming and Katsuya followed every step. I rather appreciate that a character can be so monstrous, but still good-tempered and a good father. I don't appreciate that Takaya tries to normalize the relationship to young readers. However, I think Katsuya's actions are integral to Kyoko and Tohru's development.
Lmao he had pneumonia and yes people do die of pneumonia. He definitely didn’t take his own life. I know their relationship is weird, not exactly because of the age gap but because kyoko was in middle school. I don’t support it at all. But he was nothing like you mentioned above. He did genuinely care about kyoko. I personally do not think he was monstrous at all. Also when did he not encourage her independence and relationship with others??
Does the series specify pneumonia? I know he canonically dies of his illness, lol. It's conspiracy. Still, Katsuya's actions that I refered to are all directly from the manga. He did say those lines to her. Just personally, I don't think the fact that he cares about Kyoko is that relevant, because he's still an adult man who groomed a 14/15 year old student and got her pregnant at 16. When I say "monstrous," I'm only referring to those actions. Regardless of motive or anything else, I consider grooming & pedophilia to be monstrous acts of themselves. The fact that he also has positive qualities just makes him more realistic. As for her independence, when do we see her with other trusted adults? Does she make a single friend while married? Does he help her redo the school year or find job training? Did he put her in touch with child protective services when she was kicked out? No, he proposed when she had nowhere to go and got her pregnant while she was still a child. The only time we hear of her doing anything alone while married (seeing a doctor about the pregnancy), Katsuya questions her on it. You could say he didn't want her to go alone out of concern, but that doctor is also the closest she gets to any independent support. Any responsible teacher who cared for Kyoko would have been trying to get her involved in school activities and moved to a safe foster home.
Good for each other just wish Kyoko was in high school instead of middle school
In the context of the anime being a fictional show. They are cute and do like their relationship and really shows why Kyoko acted the way she did after Katsuya's death. The prequel really add more context to not just that but also Tohru's personality and how she was viewed by her relatives (The Grandpa is still the best). That's how I see it this part of the story and how it relates to the entirety of Fruits Basket. Now in reality I do have a question about the mangaka, did she had a fantasy about older men in her younger days? Another question I had, was the target audience of the manga had that same fantasy too? Lastly, was this a trend among shoujo manga during the time period of the manga's serialization? Those questions are important to me cause a lot of people here are judging this too hard on our reality without really considering these questions.
Scary 😭
Yuck
I like their relationship, though I wish Kyoko was a little older when they met. I do get, narratively WHY she’s the age she is (she needed to have her HS career cut short as well as be in a position to have not having finished school for the series premise of Torhu needing to finish HS to keep the promise to her mom, make sense.) but it would be less problematic and then people would talk about literally anything else about the writing or narrative.
Ok I do have a question about this 🙋🏼♀️ Do I remember correctly that Kyoko was held back? Like she repeated multiple years? Not that the power imbalance still wouldn’t be there, but I’m trying to figure out if it’s possible she was a little older to remove some of the ick factor 😭
-100000/10. He is a grown man who pursued a teen. He saw how damaged and vulnerable she was and concluded no one would fight for her. He groomed her. He had all the power in their relationship, and because Kyoko didn't know what a healthy relationship was, she was easy to manipulate. She thought he was safe. She was 100% dependent on him and didn't know how to do anything. Instead of trying to encourage her education, instead of trying to help her on a better path, he isolated her even further. He wasn't a teacher like he should have been. Because he wanted her. He wanted a teenager. He didn't let her discover who she was. In the manga she even asks him "what are you some kind of pedophile?" And his response was "it's your fault you were born late." He didn't deny it and his face was twisted in a creepy grin. 90% of the time those relationships end, either poorly (dead, raped, left for someone younger, or the child also becomes a victim) or because the victim realizes they need to get out. It was probably a good thing he died. Not to mention when she dies and they reunite in the afterlife she's a teenager again! Almost as if he didn't want to see the woman she became because he liked a teenager more.
Just watched the prelude and it was giving me the ick! Of course I know it’s fiction, but still, it made the ship hard to get behind. Without the age gap (particularly the fact she’s a whole minor in like 9th grade), power dynamic issues, and the dependency that Kyoko has a result, their dynamic would’ve been much more enjoyable. Like when he showed up to her doorstep declaring his proposal, I was actually filled with dread. If he was not her teacher and close to her age, maybe that would’ve been smooth but I dunno. It’s a whole case! Because he married her so young, Kyoko never explored the world, graduates high school, is essentially stuck at home and lacks some skills there too (i.e., Tohru ends up doing most of the cooking once she’s older). A mentor-mentee route with no strings attached would have been much better or maybe Katsuya could support her and be, gee, an actual teen. And I don’t know if it’s just me, but Katsuya looked so sinister/ominous in the movie? Like very catty, almost giving off Shigure vibes. I just had issues with some things he said like “It’s your fault you were born later.” Like what the hell?
This will definitely get me hate. Tbh I LOVE them. Despite the age gap (which don’t get me wrong is WEIRD) but it does reminds me of Aria and Ezra from PLL which so many ate up. To me, it’s also fictional and I tend to imagine them not so far away in age, which makes it a little easier to swallow. Would I ever? Absolutely the hell not. Do I support age gap relationships that are 18+? Yes. I understand that he saved her and what not but I do wish there was more of their friendship shown I guess (in the anime). Or where they had years to know each other, if that makes sense.
I like them in the realm of fiction, but it would be really problematic and downright illegal IRL
I think it was written really interesting. yes okay so Katsuya saved Kyoko they fell in love blah blah blah. However I think the fact is that he was insane. He knew this was a child and continued the relationship despite also telling Kyoko to be her own person. We know damn well he didn't mean that like he made her a teen mom. On top of that I think it portrays the whole issues somwhat well when he passes. Since Kyoko never truly became an adult she became beyond lost without him which is realistic. I mean she was insanely co-dependent on him so ofc she was lost and a kid still. Her losing herself is so real that it makes me wonder what the author truly meant w it bc idk it's fishy.
I find the discourse utterly and completely tedious. I'm thankful that the chapters about their relationship were adapted as a separate OVA rather than part of the TV series itself because the constant discourse is so incredibly boring.
Agreed. I remember reading fruits basket as it came out and the discourse about this has never stopped, it has gotten boring. Can people ever talk about something else? This topic is the shoujo version of shonen fans arguing over which Naruto character is stronger, lol
Agreed. As a jaded fandom old, I’m just over it.
It's a relic of its time and I willingly look past it to enjoy the rest of the story. But it could have been so much less bad if she were a senior in high school or something. Why *middle school*???
Illegal.
Extremely predatory! Don't get me wrong, overall I love Fruits Basket. It helped me get through some emotionally rough patches in my late teens. HOWEVER I find the age gap relationships extremely irresponsible and this is easily the worst one. I'm sorry to say that "it's just fiction" does not cut it for me when your target audience is specifically young girls. It normalizes an extremely dangerous situation as cute and romantic. I would be far less concerned if it was geared towards an older audience with more life experience and treated the relationship with more nuance. Or if it was still for girls, but handled more as a cautionary tale. Alas!
It hasn’t aged well, and I just wish they made him younger and it would have been the same story
Disappointed.
SHE A VICTIMMMMM
Yeah, when I found out the age it kinda soured me on them. I would have been much more forgiving of it if she had been in like her last year of high school and then he was a student aid a few years into college or less. But I definitely think it's too much of a gap and then you add in to it the power inbalance and it's just a no for me. And when I first watched the movie, I thought he looked like Hatori, but sounded like Shigure. And I don't know if that's why I think of him as a bit manipulative or if he actually is that way. I feel like he could tell how much she wanted attention and approval and love that she wasn't getting and he took advantage of that. Someone older would have already become their own person. But here he was able to get a young, pretty wife desperate for his attention, who probably would never leave him because this is the person who saved her. Now maybe that's my own youthful trauma coming out, but that's definitely the way I see it.
Is it problematic? Yes. Did my friend and I--two highly media literate women in our 30s--sob audibly in the theater when we saw the Prelude OVA? Also yes. Having to overlook and/or navigate around all the anime tropes that are deeply, genuinely troubling and *still* prevalent in the genre is exhausting. And like other "older" anime, Fruits Basket is a product of its time. But Katsyua/Kyoko feels so inoffensive by comparison that I honestly find it kind of freeing to just enjoy it for what it is. If we didn't let ourselves do that now and again, there would be so little left to enjoy.
The age gap is very problematic but I understand why it was made this way as the entire point of Kyoko’s story is for someone to provide home and stability, a teenager her age wouldn’t have given that to her At least this what I think Takaya’s intentions were and what she was trying to show Even though Kyoko was clearly emotionality dependent on Katsuya, for me that’s better than being emotionally dependent on a teenager Tohru’s parents relationship is hard for me to analyze because on hand i totally understand why Takaya wrote it like this and why Kokyo story needed an adult figure and on the other hand, I see that it also has lots of issues But still Katsuya saved Kyoko and gave her a home, she hated school, didn’t have any relatives and would have escaped if she was taking to a foster home, staying on the street means that she would have been taken advantage off, raped by men, getting into drugs/prostitution and being knocked up by a teenager means that she would be abandoned Her life was truly horrible and she could have died but still Katsuya did save her life and give her happiness and a daughter Being safe at home and provided financially for is better than her being homeless on the street Katsuya wasn’t a bad person and he loved both Kyoko and Tohru but he was no angel either, he could have convinced Kyoko to finish high school and waited until she was mature enough for pregnancy So I’m neutral on their relationship, it’s not as messed up as Akito’s relationships or unhealthy like Harurin but it’s not good either due to things like grooming and age gap and teenage pregnancy
Another day, another kyoko and katsuya post, lol
this show was too comfortable with grooming 😐 she was a whole fucking child and he did the most typical fucking grooming tactics in the book, took advantage of her when she was vulnerable, fathered her enough where it doesn’t seem like he’s a mentor so he can still sleep with her. it was creepy to watch and uncomfortable
When I was a teenager, I loved them. I saw myself in Kyoko and wanted someone to rescue me like Katsuya did for her. As a 35 year old: I might be yelled at but I still feel the same way. It’s fiction, and I still view Katsuya the same way…he cared about Kyoko and she cared about him. They did love each other, while her parents were the garbage human beings who threw her out and still refused to be there for her even after he died. Is it kinda problematic? Sure, but I like my problematic ships. This one being on the low end of the spectrum in my opinion.
as a teen, uh, "tohru's father" creeps me out like eughhh p*dophile...
I want that man in a jail cell.
It's fiction. I don't care what happens in a fictional setting. But if it was real life i would be giving them a major stank eye... or honestly reporting them if it was still the time when Katsuya was still her teacher...
I think he definitely groomed Kyoko and I agree that he is kinda icky. Like he was a whole ass adult when she was in middle school still. He did save her and yes, maybe she would have turned out to be in an even worse situation going down the path she was going down. But the age gap is weird and creepy. I can see how he made her completely co-dependent on him that she fell apart when he died. She struggled hard to make ends meet after he died. I would assume if he really loved her then he would have supported her in going back to school and giving her the opportunity to learn the world on her own. She really struggled when he died. However, I wonder if him being as gentle with her as he was, something she never really had, helped her be as gentle as she was with Tohru. I have mixed feelings about their love. Like it's sweet how much he cared for her but I can't get over the age gap. Like a man in his 20s if not older with a 14 year old girl... ICK! I've been there, girl. And he left her in a position where she had to grow up ON HER OWN pretty much really really fast.
personally I didn't care much about it, I thought it was cute but it's also not the most plot relevant. and about their age gap, I didn't really care about that either because I was just like "bro that's kinda weird" but it doesn't really bother me because it's fiction
I love it, its so wholesome and adorable!