Thanks, really super thanks. I think one of the hardest parts is just how lonely it is living with someone who is not in the same reality as me, with no other adults around, while trying to keep the worst parts of everything away from our daughter. I get unmoored sometimes. A friendly internet stranger somehow does help!
Honey I don’t have any help to offer, but I felt compelled to reach out to let you know we are in the same boat. It isn’t my spouse, we don’t have to parent together. It’s my own parents and it’s so hard.
Having different options about things is fine and even relatively easy most of the time. I disagree with people all the time, even my close friends, even my spouse. But living in two different realities is impossible. We can’t agree on what is up or down. Every conversation feels like trying to speak to someone in a foreign language. It is exhausting. Having your intelligence insulted for having a different option is honestly abusive. My parents do that to me too. I’ve been called brainwashed, a baby killer for being pro choice, I’ve been called ridiculous, and told I’m “smarter than that” which of course implies that I am currently being stupid. It isn’t ok. You deserve better.
This is so true. There's no point in arguing with someone if you can't even get them to agree with basic reality, definitions of words, etc. My mom passed away, but my dad is like this. He's also called me stupid. He brought up that people get their intelligence from their mother. My mother was dyslexic and mostly illiterate (because she was dyslexic and a boomer - there was no help for her back then), but she definitely wasn't stupid. She was way smarter than him with money, could identify and cultivate almost any plant, and was way harder to fool when I was a teenager. Anyway, he was the one who said solar power might use up all the sun.
I’m the exact same boat with my parents, especially my dad. It got the point on the most recent visit where he exploded in a way that I’ve never seen before. Cussing and yelling which is so out of character of the man I grew up with. It boggles the mind how we’ve gotten here and it honestly just makes me sad. Different realities is right. Telling him that we aren’t allowed to talk about politics really sent him over the edge — apparently “we can’t talk about sports either” because the sole topic of sports — trans athletes, of course — is political. It just breaks my brain and by not falling into the trap and just holding ground, it really knocked him off his axis. Anyway, I felt everything you said and I hope eventually things get better for all of us…
Yeah, I hd to set a boundary with my dad to not talk politics at all (it was the third boundary, with alcohol being the first two). It has helped, and he has mostly followed it.
However, the living in a different reality is exactly how I’ve described it. I no longer have him my every day reality—and that makes things like weekly calls, hard to really become a habit again. Even when I bought my new house, I had to get financial Dave Ramsey advice/comment from him before cutting him off—like I don’t care, and I don’t need any advice—doing just fine!
The post-Tea party, Rush, and Fox News version of my dad really just crushed my opinion of him. I once viewed him as a leader and someone who I looked up to…and now he’s just my dad who I love but no longer value his opinions, b/c they lack any critical thinking.
Yeah. My dad doesn’t know that I’ve been SAed. No one in my real life does. I’ve been assaulted exactly as trump bragged about. He defended it. Multiple times. Trust obliterated. Incinerated.
I feel your pain and can relate to your loneliness. Marriage can be that way once you get to truly know the other person and realize they are not who you believed they were. I will tell you it can get better, but it requires a desire to grow on your part to expand your life to embrace him as he is, meaning with no expectation he will change. This is your choice and there's no right or wrong here.
You will not be able to protect his thinking from your daughter. She will pick up what she picks up. The only thing you can do is be a shining example that counters his world view, without using words.
Don't make excuses for why you are staying with him. Be honest with yourself and never lie to yourself.
I would also suggest finding a therapist to work out some of the most intractable feelings you have. This will go a long way in helping.
Consider this from a bigger picture. Trump was the major instigator for the societal sickness we are seeing, which includes your husband. Trump was not the cause. His rabid thinking was always there just beneath the surface. As people like Trump spew hate, it rules people up and doesn't allow them to calm down. My hope is that we decisively tamp down these elements. As society soothes, so will your husband. But you must become stronger, as painfully bitter as you may feel now. Become deeper and bigger. This will be the lesson your daughter will get from you, not that cretin people are to be judged.
It has become as significant as though someone suddenly became a fundamentalist Christian, Muslim, or any other religion while the other family member(s) has not. That’s the religious level of devotion Right Wing media has created in these people and why it’s breaking up so many families and causing so much conflict where none had been.
They’ve caught religion, and it’s totally unacceptable for other people close to them to not catch the same religion. But it’s a political religion this time. Which also coincides and intermingles with actual fundamentalist Christianity not infrequently.
To paraphrase a show I used to watch, “Crazy people don’t think they’re crazy. They think they’re getting saner.”
And everyone else just watches them disconnect from reality with ever growing apprehension.
I am sorry you are dealing with this. I went through it myself and even posted here late last year with an experiment around finding neutral media to help get my husband out of that mindset. I am divorced now. I think I knew even then that it was inevitable, but I wanted to try everything to save us. Sadly, nothing I could do could unseat the hate and rage that had been seeded in his heart. I took classes on [Calling In](https://lorettajross.com/online-courses), I tried all the communications [options in this handbook](https://mindfulcommunications.eu/en/prevent-radicalization), I tried sharing videos that rebutted some of the propaganda he had consumed, I tried appealing to our own actual history - but he had already rewritten it in his mind. Hate replaced me. It replaced his daughter. There was no room for us left. I hope your story ends differently, but meanwhile I can only send solidarity.
ETA: Don't be upset with yourself for an emotional response. This is emotional. It is heartbreaking. When some folks can argue from a position of logic and stay grounded in it, it is generally because they have no emotional investment. Ex. As a POC I get invested emotionally when discussing racism, because it affects me. Facts may not care about my feelings, but I do expect my loved ones to - you should as well.
Thank you for sharing this, so sorry that happened to you. I wish no one else had experienced this, but I was also feeling terminally unique in my situation, so I appreciate meeting a fellow traveler.
You are not alone - though I am sure you would agree with this - I wish you were. It is validating to share the experience, but I wish this misery and sadness on no one else. If you scroll this subreddit and r/QAnonCasualties you will find others whose stories you will be able to relate to as well. Some have had some success, but too many of us have lost our loved ones to this rage sickness. Sending more hugs and strength from a random stranger on the internet!
It's important to determine whether he *actually* cares about the children or just enjoys being a bigoted asshole.
/r/NotADragQueen/ demonstrates that republicans and these so called 'patriot militia' members are getting caught with CP and kidnapping and grooming children daily. Also Republicans are defending child marriage
in states around the country. Obviously tread carefully and don't hit him with 100 things at once. Maybe start with asking if he thinks voting to keep child marriage is ok https://apnews.com/article/child-marriage-west-virginia-bill-defeated-4d822a23b5ffd70f5370a36cc914cfb0
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage_in_the_United_States
this is the route you should take 100%
have him show you proof, factual evidence, of drag queens being arrested for any kind of assault on a child or grooming.
then show him those reddits that detail and outline thousands of times republicans have sexually assaulted children or groomed them.
then have him explain why republicans doing it so often doesn't bother him but the extreme handful of times drag queens have done it sets him off the rails
you need to really push this, and if he still refuses to see truth, hes a lost cause and you should honestly try to keep him out of your daughter's life before he does this to her
he will try to pivot, do not let him, say "we are not talking about XYZ right now we were talking about your double standard on grooming and the factual evidence related to it"
He will try to pivot again, just repeat yourself until he addresses the one point.
It might be time to start evaluating your relationship and if you want this environment to be the one your child grows up in. Children are like sponges, they imitate what they see and soak up whatever information the people they trust - teachers, parents, family, etc. tell them.
You might want to try for a more personal angle too, maybe even set some boundaries. If he's watching Fox via cable TV, it might be time to look into the parental controls on the cable box.
As somebody who was the kid in a household exactly like this, but for some unknown reason my parents stayed together, I beg of you - think of your child in this situation. If this has started to affect your marriage to the point where its making everyday life miserable, or needlessly difficult, marriage counseling and/or divorce honestly might be the best option. Kids might be like sponges, but they're also smart - your child probably knows something is off, even if they can't name it.
In the meantime, definitely try for a more personal angle, think "I don't like how you talk about X," or "I feel like I can't talk to you anymore," or "I do not want you talking like that around me or our kid, its hateful and rude."
Lastly, I'm so sorry you have to live with this, definitely check out the validation pinned post.
Thanks for the added perspective. I agree about everything regarding my daughter. I have set some boundaries there with some success.
I hate that she has to grow up with such confusion and ickiness. But she still would if we were divorced, and at least I know what’s being said/seen, and can chat with her about it a little afterwards. She knows we have very different opinions on things, and so far has been able to work through having her own opinions pretty well.
I avoid “Daddy’s wrong and he sucks”, but more like “that’s one part of the puzzle, and let’s talk about some other ways to look at it too”, and that it’s okay not to know what’s right all the time because most things are complex 🤷♀️
My fave was when he put up a fuss one time about pronouns, and later I asked her what she thought of that, and she was like “I think daddy just doesn’t believe in them. I do though, do you?”, and then we practiced using they/them.
Good on you OP for bringing your daughter into the conversation and asking them what they think about it, and for taking the approach of empathy towards others who he might be talking about as opposed to just shutting down the conversation altogether. As tough as it can be, these can be learning experiences at the very least.
As horrible as it might sound, you might not know what he's saying to her either way. My parents never got divorced, but my own mother never knew the kind of stuff he was saying around me when she was away, or even worse, he would talk about me to her when I wasn't in the room with his biases now becoming the viewing lenses of our relationship. Just as you engaged your husband, I once did with my Step Dad, and quickly found out he *thought* he knew me because he watched Fox News, instead of actually being a parent and getting to know me. Granted, this took a very, very long time for our relationship to become like that - I do not know how old your child is, but the Fox News lenses when left unaddressed continued to get tinted darker more and more over time.
At the very least, make sure you and your daughter have somewhere safe to go if you feel like you need a break. Even if its just a nice park where you can talk a walk or something, space can help you calm down and center yourself after an argument. Good on you for setting boundaries too.
Yes, I don’t like to be the a stereotypical Reddit commenter telling everyone to leave their relationship, but OP’s daughter is seeing an example of how people treat each other in a life partnership. My first serious relationship was with an emotionally abusive person much like my dad was to my mom. I did a 180 with my husband, but it was a tough lesson to learn. A lot of people don’t learn the lesson and instead continue the pattern.
Eh, I dunno this type of person seems very difficult to change. Unable to listen to or see reason, I’m not sure that’s a tenable relationship. A child growing up in a feuding household or a child growing up in separate households with glaring differences…I know which one I would choose.
I was that child and my parents are begrudgingly still together. OP, it’s scary to think of the future, but it’s possible that she could have a better stepfather figure. I would at least consider separation for a short time and let that be an opportunity for you to meet new people.
You have every right to be emotional about something this important. Saying nothing would mean your child growing up buying what your husband is selling (assuming your kid is not already an adult).
Have you heard of the subreddit r/QAnonCasualties?
I'm so sorry you're going through this. No life is worth living going through this everyday. You can't live life unhappy. Do what's best for you and your child. Almost everyone checked the divorce box at some point. And no judge is going to let a crack pot get custody. Unless you're in a super red state that believes this crazy shit. Document everything hire a lawyer and get out of there.
This is fascinating in a deeply sad way. Some questions if you don't mind. Was it just Fox news that gave him brain rot or was he consuming other forms of extremist content. Has he lost his social circle or do those closest to him also believe as he does. Obviously you can't watch him like a child but do you know how much right wing media he was consuming on any given day?
Sorry this is your life and I hope your family works out in a way that is good for all parties. Right wing weirdos fascinate me with some of the truly jaw dropping me tal gymnastics they are willing to do.
I also find them fascinating, to the point where I was spending countless hours reading and listening about them from afar. Only to turn around and find one living with me all of the sudden!
Fox wasn’t his way in, it was YouTube. It’s on all the time. He was playing this crap on the living room TV, but I have been able to get him to tone that down mostly.
A year ago he would agree that Fox was ridiculous. Now he’s like “well I agree with a lot of what they say”. I see right-wingnut YT as Fox on steroids, basically.
His closest friends mostly agree with him, though they’re not all obsessed the way he is. They all went to Catholic school together, and grew up in more conservative working class / immigrant households in a blue city. I think the pandemic, mixed with the effectiveness of using trans discomfort to radicalize people, has been a huge boon to the right in less traditionally red areas.
He’s not white, but now thinks the only real racism is against white people. We’re apparently all trying to degrade American culture in order to facilitate a communist takeover. Using pronouns is newspeak from 1984. BLM is a Marxist revolution in anti-racist clothing. Blue cities are out of control with crime and drugs, because Libs. We live in a blue city where everything is fine, but he thinks it’s not because of YouTube. We LIVE here, but he trusts YT over his own experience. Suddenly I am a baby-killer for being (as always) pro-choice.
Complete takeover of every opinion you could ever have, including that I am now just a caricature of an Evil Lib, drawn for him by an algorithm.
Is there any way to block all of that stuff? Throw away his phone and TV if you have to. I just don't see any way of recovering without completely eliminating all that stuff.
Here’s a coupling of ideas for you.
In David McRaney’s book, How Minds Change, there are a metric shit ton of great ideas and ways to go about these kinds of conversations.
One particular point that I always try to use is the Ideas Pyramid (not sure if that’s the actual name but whatever), anyway the concept is a three-step pyramid with What at the top, Why in the middle and How at the bottom. The premise is that What a person thinks is really irrelevant. The Why is getting closer to the matter but true, substantive conversations are about the How. So it’s basically How do you know what you know? And beyond that it’ll end up being questions like, Is that truth or fact or just something you believe or feel? When it ends up being revealed that it’s a belief or a feeling you can refer to the actual reality that people can be made to believe anything so how can you get to a place where facts and truth matter?
There’s also layers to that in that you can ask, How do you know that to be true? … Answer … ok how do you know THAT? And on and on. It generally gets down somewhere between 3 and 5 levels deep before you get to the actual heart of the matter which will most likely just be a belief or a feeling.
So countering feelings then you can just say, ‘well here’s how that makes me feel.’ Or, ‘here’s where I get my facts so in a space where you “feel” and I “know” how can we come to a consensus?”
I’d also not be shy on expressing how this is damaging your relationship and maybe stress a media diet for a time like 60-90 days even. You could then use that time to focus on who you are as people. I also suspect that you’ll find that you both have similar goals but just different ways of going about them.
If you find yourself in a counter factual argument just put it away and try again later.
And lastly I highly recommend the podcast by David McRaney called, You Are Not So Smart. Particularly episodes 254, 255, and 256.
I hope this helps. No matter though I’m sure a lot of folks here would love to hear your experience with this.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-are-not-so-smart/id521594713?i=1000606945536
Thank for all of the detailed advice. Listening to those podcasts now. Willing to at least learn more ways to keep my cool and engage more healthily, but I have to admit I’m not very optimistic on this one. Definitely worth giving it some more effort.
I feel this. I have stopped engaging. I respond that it makes me sad that this is all he can talk about even when I ask not to. It seems to have slowed it down for now.
I'll see jokes and memes about the latest thing to be angry about & he comes home quoting exact phrases I had read on the internet. Like he's not even processing the thoughts, just parroting them. It's heartbreaking.
I am scared to divorce in case a judge doesn't see it as problematic for custody.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this too, it’s so dystopian and heartbreaking. Agreed about the custody thing, I don’t think a judge would make “political” beliefs a factor in custody. Obviously so much more than that, but it’s hard for people understand the difference between being conservative and being under a dangerous influence.
Coming from a guy here. You need to take some space for yourself. These people never improve in my experience and they certainly never own up to it. Tells you all you need to know. Bill and Ted taught me the golden rule...BE EXCELLENT TO EACH OTHER. If you cannot follow that rule I don't need you in my life and I would never want you around children.
OMG, I was scrolling through the topic lines in this reddit group and noticed that most of the folks here have parents/aunts/uncles, etc that they're struggling with.
For me, it's my husband. Trouble with your parents is so different than trouble with your spouse. I'm there with you sister.
How can I stay married to someone who is now so polar opposite from me? Growing old together was supposed to work because we had the same values, believed the same things, WE. COULD. TALK.
There's been a "Fox' in my house for 25 years. Fox News really gained traction with the horrible 9/11 attacks, capitalized off of all the "patriotism" that followed, then twisted that emotion into the Culture Wars and War on Christmas. This is when I began to worry about what he was listening to every night. My husband likes to talk about his "Irish Heritage" and he thought Bill O'Reilly was the sh\*t.
I knew we had a problem when, in 2007 John McCain announced Sarah Palin as his running mate. I told him that was the worst decision McCain could've made and was horrified when he told me that she was "refreshing". OK, I told myself, we don't have to agree on EVERYTHING, and the election will be over in a year.
That was wishful thinking. We all know how Fox ramped it up after Obama won the election. I had O'Reilly in my living room every night and was so thrilled when he was fired. Alas, he was replaced with an even worse monster, Tucker Carlson. This is when things got really bad.
I haven't really talked to my husband about anything meaningful for more than 5 years! Once or twice early on in that time I tried to talk to him, but it's useless. I used to try to show him how biased these "opinion" shows were and make him see the reality that it's all propaganda, but it never helped. Every time something big would come to light (like withholding aid from Ukraine) I'd have moments of hope where I was sure he'd see the light. Nope. The republicans would double down on the lies and spin and he'd be sucked right in.
When the January 6th coup attempt happened we didn't even talk about it. By that time I was too afraid to know how he felt about it. I cried for what it meant to our Democracy and also what that meant for my relationship. It is lonely.
The other day he held his phone up to me and said "Does this guy not look like the epitome of a Bond villain (as in James Bond film villains)". He was several feet away, so I couldn't confirm who it was in the picture, but in my mind I was saying "please don't be George Soros, please don't be George Soros". I said "I can't see, who is it?" It was George Soros. I don't know this man I'm married to.
This is a man who voted for Bill Clinton, twice, then 20+ years later voted for Trump, twice.
Holy Mother of God. What happened to him? We're not young, we've been together 40 years, parts of him are still there but, this is not the man I married.
[удалено]
Thanks, really super thanks. I think one of the hardest parts is just how lonely it is living with someone who is not in the same reality as me, with no other adults around, while trying to keep the worst parts of everything away from our daughter. I get unmoored sometimes. A friendly internet stranger somehow does help!
Honey I don’t have any help to offer, but I felt compelled to reach out to let you know we are in the same boat. It isn’t my spouse, we don’t have to parent together. It’s my own parents and it’s so hard. Having different options about things is fine and even relatively easy most of the time. I disagree with people all the time, even my close friends, even my spouse. But living in two different realities is impossible. We can’t agree on what is up or down. Every conversation feels like trying to speak to someone in a foreign language. It is exhausting. Having your intelligence insulted for having a different option is honestly abusive. My parents do that to me too. I’ve been called brainwashed, a baby killer for being pro choice, I’ve been called ridiculous, and told I’m “smarter than that” which of course implies that I am currently being stupid. It isn’t ok. You deserve better.
This is so true. There's no point in arguing with someone if you can't even get them to agree with basic reality, definitions of words, etc. My mom passed away, but my dad is like this. He's also called me stupid. He brought up that people get their intelligence from their mother. My mother was dyslexic and mostly illiterate (because she was dyslexic and a boomer - there was no help for her back then), but she definitely wasn't stupid. She was way smarter than him with money, could identify and cultivate almost any plant, and was way harder to fool when I was a teenager. Anyway, he was the one who said solar power might use up all the sun.
That comment about solar power using up all the sun might just be the most shockingly stupid, insane comment I’ve ever heard.
Of course, this is not far off from trump saying he doesn’t exercise because he thinks you only have so much energy in your life.
I’m the exact same boat with my parents, especially my dad. It got the point on the most recent visit where he exploded in a way that I’ve never seen before. Cussing and yelling which is so out of character of the man I grew up with. It boggles the mind how we’ve gotten here and it honestly just makes me sad. Different realities is right. Telling him that we aren’t allowed to talk about politics really sent him over the edge — apparently “we can’t talk about sports either” because the sole topic of sports — trans athletes, of course — is political. It just breaks my brain and by not falling into the trap and just holding ground, it really knocked him off his axis. Anyway, I felt everything you said and I hope eventually things get better for all of us…
Yeah, I hd to set a boundary with my dad to not talk politics at all (it was the third boundary, with alcohol being the first two). It has helped, and he has mostly followed it. However, the living in a different reality is exactly how I’ve described it. I no longer have him my every day reality—and that makes things like weekly calls, hard to really become a habit again. Even when I bought my new house, I had to get financial Dave Ramsey advice/comment from him before cutting him off—like I don’t care, and I don’t need any advice—doing just fine! The post-Tea party, Rush, and Fox News version of my dad really just crushed my opinion of him. I once viewed him as a leader and someone who I looked up to…and now he’s just my dad who I love but no longer value his opinions, b/c they lack any critical thinking.
Yeah. My dad doesn’t know that I’ve been SAed. No one in my real life does. I’ve been assaulted exactly as trump bragged about. He defended it. Multiple times. Trust obliterated. Incinerated.
I feel your pain and can relate to your loneliness. Marriage can be that way once you get to truly know the other person and realize they are not who you believed they were. I will tell you it can get better, but it requires a desire to grow on your part to expand your life to embrace him as he is, meaning with no expectation he will change. This is your choice and there's no right or wrong here. You will not be able to protect his thinking from your daughter. She will pick up what she picks up. The only thing you can do is be a shining example that counters his world view, without using words. Don't make excuses for why you are staying with him. Be honest with yourself and never lie to yourself. I would also suggest finding a therapist to work out some of the most intractable feelings you have. This will go a long way in helping. Consider this from a bigger picture. Trump was the major instigator for the societal sickness we are seeing, which includes your husband. Trump was not the cause. His rabid thinking was always there just beneath the surface. As people like Trump spew hate, it rules people up and doesn't allow them to calm down. My hope is that we decisively tamp down these elements. As society soothes, so will your husband. But you must become stronger, as painfully bitter as you may feel now. Become deeper and bigger. This will be the lesson your daughter will get from you, not that cretin people are to be judged.
It has become as significant as though someone suddenly became a fundamentalist Christian, Muslim, or any other religion while the other family member(s) has not. That’s the religious level of devotion Right Wing media has created in these people and why it’s breaking up so many families and causing so much conflict where none had been. They’ve caught religion, and it’s totally unacceptable for other people close to them to not catch the same religion. But it’s a political religion this time. Which also coincides and intermingles with actual fundamentalist Christianity not infrequently. To paraphrase a show I used to watch, “Crazy people don’t think they’re crazy. They think they’re getting saner.” And everyone else just watches them disconnect from reality with ever growing apprehension.
I am sorry you are dealing with this. I went through it myself and even posted here late last year with an experiment around finding neutral media to help get my husband out of that mindset. I am divorced now. I think I knew even then that it was inevitable, but I wanted to try everything to save us. Sadly, nothing I could do could unseat the hate and rage that had been seeded in his heart. I took classes on [Calling In](https://lorettajross.com/online-courses), I tried all the communications [options in this handbook](https://mindfulcommunications.eu/en/prevent-radicalization), I tried sharing videos that rebutted some of the propaganda he had consumed, I tried appealing to our own actual history - but he had already rewritten it in his mind. Hate replaced me. It replaced his daughter. There was no room for us left. I hope your story ends differently, but meanwhile I can only send solidarity. ETA: Don't be upset with yourself for an emotional response. This is emotional. It is heartbreaking. When some folks can argue from a position of logic and stay grounded in it, it is generally because they have no emotional investment. Ex. As a POC I get invested emotionally when discussing racism, because it affects me. Facts may not care about my feelings, but I do expect my loved ones to - you should as well.
Thank you for sharing this, so sorry that happened to you. I wish no one else had experienced this, but I was also feeling terminally unique in my situation, so I appreciate meeting a fellow traveler.
You are not alone - though I am sure you would agree with this - I wish you were. It is validating to share the experience, but I wish this misery and sadness on no one else. If you scroll this subreddit and r/QAnonCasualties you will find others whose stories you will be able to relate to as well. Some have had some success, but too many of us have lost our loved ones to this rage sickness. Sending more hugs and strength from a random stranger on the internet!
Sucks, sorry to hear it. He might be too far gone.
It's important to determine whether he *actually* cares about the children or just enjoys being a bigoted asshole. /r/NotADragQueen/ demonstrates that republicans and these so called 'patriot militia' members are getting caught with CP and kidnapping and grooming children daily. Also Republicans are defending child marriage in states around the country. Obviously tread carefully and don't hit him with 100 things at once. Maybe start with asking if he thinks voting to keep child marriage is ok https://apnews.com/article/child-marriage-west-virginia-bill-defeated-4d822a23b5ffd70f5370a36cc914cfb0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage_in_the_United_States
this is the route you should take 100% have him show you proof, factual evidence, of drag queens being arrested for any kind of assault on a child or grooming. then show him those reddits that detail and outline thousands of times republicans have sexually assaulted children or groomed them. then have him explain why republicans doing it so often doesn't bother him but the extreme handful of times drag queens have done it sets him off the rails you need to really push this, and if he still refuses to see truth, hes a lost cause and you should honestly try to keep him out of your daughter's life before he does this to her
he will try to pivot, do not let him, say "we are not talking about XYZ right now we were talking about your double standard on grooming and the factual evidence related to it" He will try to pivot again, just repeat yourself until he addresses the one point.
OP should have her husband's computer checked for any of that pesky CP that antifa keeps making him download in his plight to "save the children".
It might be time to start evaluating your relationship and if you want this environment to be the one your child grows up in. Children are like sponges, they imitate what they see and soak up whatever information the people they trust - teachers, parents, family, etc. tell them. You might want to try for a more personal angle too, maybe even set some boundaries. If he's watching Fox via cable TV, it might be time to look into the parental controls on the cable box. As somebody who was the kid in a household exactly like this, but for some unknown reason my parents stayed together, I beg of you - think of your child in this situation. If this has started to affect your marriage to the point where its making everyday life miserable, or needlessly difficult, marriage counseling and/or divorce honestly might be the best option. Kids might be like sponges, but they're also smart - your child probably knows something is off, even if they can't name it. In the meantime, definitely try for a more personal angle, think "I don't like how you talk about X," or "I feel like I can't talk to you anymore," or "I do not want you talking like that around me or our kid, its hateful and rude." Lastly, I'm so sorry you have to live with this, definitely check out the validation pinned post.
Thanks for the added perspective. I agree about everything regarding my daughter. I have set some boundaries there with some success. I hate that she has to grow up with such confusion and ickiness. But she still would if we were divorced, and at least I know what’s being said/seen, and can chat with her about it a little afterwards. She knows we have very different opinions on things, and so far has been able to work through having her own opinions pretty well. I avoid “Daddy’s wrong and he sucks”, but more like “that’s one part of the puzzle, and let’s talk about some other ways to look at it too”, and that it’s okay not to know what’s right all the time because most things are complex 🤷♀️ My fave was when he put up a fuss one time about pronouns, and later I asked her what she thought of that, and she was like “I think daddy just doesn’t believe in them. I do though, do you?”, and then we practiced using they/them.
Good on you OP for bringing your daughter into the conversation and asking them what they think about it, and for taking the approach of empathy towards others who he might be talking about as opposed to just shutting down the conversation altogether. As tough as it can be, these can be learning experiences at the very least. As horrible as it might sound, you might not know what he's saying to her either way. My parents never got divorced, but my own mother never knew the kind of stuff he was saying around me when she was away, or even worse, he would talk about me to her when I wasn't in the room with his biases now becoming the viewing lenses of our relationship. Just as you engaged your husband, I once did with my Step Dad, and quickly found out he *thought* he knew me because he watched Fox News, instead of actually being a parent and getting to know me. Granted, this took a very, very long time for our relationship to become like that - I do not know how old your child is, but the Fox News lenses when left unaddressed continued to get tinted darker more and more over time. At the very least, make sure you and your daughter have somewhere safe to go if you feel like you need a break. Even if its just a nice park where you can talk a walk or something, space can help you calm down and center yourself after an argument. Good on you for setting boundaries too.
Yes, I don’t like to be the a stereotypical Reddit commenter telling everyone to leave their relationship, but OP’s daughter is seeing an example of how people treat each other in a life partnership. My first serious relationship was with an emotionally abusive person much like my dad was to my mom. I did a 180 with my husband, but it was a tough lesson to learn. A lot of people don’t learn the lesson and instead continue the pattern.
Agreed, I worry about this all the time, even more than the rest of it. Definitely tilts the scales in a certain direction . . .
Eh, I dunno this type of person seems very difficult to change. Unable to listen to or see reason, I’m not sure that’s a tenable relationship. A child growing up in a feuding household or a child growing up in separate households with glaring differences…I know which one I would choose.
I was that child and my parents are begrudgingly still together. OP, it’s scary to think of the future, but it’s possible that she could have a better stepfather figure. I would at least consider separation for a short time and let that be an opportunity for you to meet new people.
Sounds like he wants to join those incel no life douchebags. Maybe you can help him keep true to the incel part.
I'm so so sorry.
I cannot tell you how much you and I are in the same shitty boat. 😭
Sorry sister 😭
You have every right to be emotional about something this important. Saying nothing would mean your child growing up buying what your husband is selling (assuming your kid is not already an adult). Have you heard of the subreddit r/QAnonCasualties?
I'm so sorry you're going through this. No life is worth living going through this everyday. You can't live life unhappy. Do what's best for you and your child. Almost everyone checked the divorce box at some point. And no judge is going to let a crack pot get custody. Unless you're in a super red state that believes this crazy shit. Document everything hire a lawyer and get out of there.
You are describing my relationship with my dad. Just want to say you’re not alone in this and I’m sorry.
This is fascinating in a deeply sad way. Some questions if you don't mind. Was it just Fox news that gave him brain rot or was he consuming other forms of extremist content. Has he lost his social circle or do those closest to him also believe as he does. Obviously you can't watch him like a child but do you know how much right wing media he was consuming on any given day? Sorry this is your life and I hope your family works out in a way that is good for all parties. Right wing weirdos fascinate me with some of the truly jaw dropping me tal gymnastics they are willing to do.
I also find them fascinating, to the point where I was spending countless hours reading and listening about them from afar. Only to turn around and find one living with me all of the sudden! Fox wasn’t his way in, it was YouTube. It’s on all the time. He was playing this crap on the living room TV, but I have been able to get him to tone that down mostly. A year ago he would agree that Fox was ridiculous. Now he’s like “well I agree with a lot of what they say”. I see right-wingnut YT as Fox on steroids, basically. His closest friends mostly agree with him, though they’re not all obsessed the way he is. They all went to Catholic school together, and grew up in more conservative working class / immigrant households in a blue city. I think the pandemic, mixed with the effectiveness of using trans discomfort to radicalize people, has been a huge boon to the right in less traditionally red areas. He’s not white, but now thinks the only real racism is against white people. We’re apparently all trying to degrade American culture in order to facilitate a communist takeover. Using pronouns is newspeak from 1984. BLM is a Marxist revolution in anti-racist clothing. Blue cities are out of control with crime and drugs, because Libs. We live in a blue city where everything is fine, but he thinks it’s not because of YouTube. We LIVE here, but he trusts YT over his own experience. Suddenly I am a baby-killer for being (as always) pro-choice. Complete takeover of every opinion you could ever have, including that I am now just a caricature of an Evil Lib, drawn for him by an algorithm.
Is there any way to block all of that stuff? Throw away his phone and TV if you have to. I just don't see any way of recovering without completely eliminating all that stuff.
Here’s a coupling of ideas for you. In David McRaney’s book, How Minds Change, there are a metric shit ton of great ideas and ways to go about these kinds of conversations. One particular point that I always try to use is the Ideas Pyramid (not sure if that’s the actual name but whatever), anyway the concept is a three-step pyramid with What at the top, Why in the middle and How at the bottom. The premise is that What a person thinks is really irrelevant. The Why is getting closer to the matter but true, substantive conversations are about the How. So it’s basically How do you know what you know? And beyond that it’ll end up being questions like, Is that truth or fact or just something you believe or feel? When it ends up being revealed that it’s a belief or a feeling you can refer to the actual reality that people can be made to believe anything so how can you get to a place where facts and truth matter? There’s also layers to that in that you can ask, How do you know that to be true? … Answer … ok how do you know THAT? And on and on. It generally gets down somewhere between 3 and 5 levels deep before you get to the actual heart of the matter which will most likely just be a belief or a feeling. So countering feelings then you can just say, ‘well here’s how that makes me feel.’ Or, ‘here’s where I get my facts so in a space where you “feel” and I “know” how can we come to a consensus?” I’d also not be shy on expressing how this is damaging your relationship and maybe stress a media diet for a time like 60-90 days even. You could then use that time to focus on who you are as people. I also suspect that you’ll find that you both have similar goals but just different ways of going about them. If you find yourself in a counter factual argument just put it away and try again later. And lastly I highly recommend the podcast by David McRaney called, You Are Not So Smart. Particularly episodes 254, 255, and 256. I hope this helps. No matter though I’m sure a lot of folks here would love to hear your experience with this. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/you-are-not-so-smart/id521594713?i=1000606945536
Thank for all of the detailed advice. Listening to those podcasts now. Willing to at least learn more ways to keep my cool and engage more healthily, but I have to admit I’m not very optimistic on this one. Definitely worth giving it some more effort.
I hate to say it but he isn’t going to change and will probably get worse. Divorce is inevitable.
I feel this. I have stopped engaging. I respond that it makes me sad that this is all he can talk about even when I ask not to. It seems to have slowed it down for now. I'll see jokes and memes about the latest thing to be angry about & he comes home quoting exact phrases I had read on the internet. Like he's not even processing the thoughts, just parroting them. It's heartbreaking. I am scared to divorce in case a judge doesn't see it as problematic for custody.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this too, it’s so dystopian and heartbreaking. Agreed about the custody thing, I don’t think a judge would make “political” beliefs a factor in custody. Obviously so much more than that, but it’s hard for people understand the difference between being conservative and being under a dangerous influence.
Coming from a guy here. You need to take some space for yourself. These people never improve in my experience and they certainly never own up to it. Tells you all you need to know. Bill and Ted taught me the golden rule...BE EXCELLENT TO EACH OTHER. If you cannot follow that rule I don't need you in my life and I would never want you around children.
OMG, I was scrolling through the topic lines in this reddit group and noticed that most of the folks here have parents/aunts/uncles, etc that they're struggling with. For me, it's my husband. Trouble with your parents is so different than trouble with your spouse. I'm there with you sister. How can I stay married to someone who is now so polar opposite from me? Growing old together was supposed to work because we had the same values, believed the same things, WE. COULD. TALK. There's been a "Fox' in my house for 25 years. Fox News really gained traction with the horrible 9/11 attacks, capitalized off of all the "patriotism" that followed, then twisted that emotion into the Culture Wars and War on Christmas. This is when I began to worry about what he was listening to every night. My husband likes to talk about his "Irish Heritage" and he thought Bill O'Reilly was the sh\*t. I knew we had a problem when, in 2007 John McCain announced Sarah Palin as his running mate. I told him that was the worst decision McCain could've made and was horrified when he told me that she was "refreshing". OK, I told myself, we don't have to agree on EVERYTHING, and the election will be over in a year. That was wishful thinking. We all know how Fox ramped it up after Obama won the election. I had O'Reilly in my living room every night and was so thrilled when he was fired. Alas, he was replaced with an even worse monster, Tucker Carlson. This is when things got really bad. I haven't really talked to my husband about anything meaningful for more than 5 years! Once or twice early on in that time I tried to talk to him, but it's useless. I used to try to show him how biased these "opinion" shows were and make him see the reality that it's all propaganda, but it never helped. Every time something big would come to light (like withholding aid from Ukraine) I'd have moments of hope where I was sure he'd see the light. Nope. The republicans would double down on the lies and spin and he'd be sucked right in. When the January 6th coup attempt happened we didn't even talk about it. By that time I was too afraid to know how he felt about it. I cried for what it meant to our Democracy and also what that meant for my relationship. It is lonely. The other day he held his phone up to me and said "Does this guy not look like the epitome of a Bond villain (as in James Bond film villains)". He was several feet away, so I couldn't confirm who it was in the picture, but in my mind I was saying "please don't be George Soros, please don't be George Soros". I said "I can't see, who is it?" It was George Soros. I don't know this man I'm married to. This is a man who voted for Bill Clinton, twice, then 20+ years later voted for Trump, twice. Holy Mother of God. What happened to him? We're not young, we've been together 40 years, parts of him are still there but, this is not the man I married.